Author Topic: New nurse graduate looking for advice  (Read 8753 times)

Murse

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New nurse graduate looking for advice
« on: April 19, 2015, 05:54:32 PM »
Hello there, I am seeking advice. I am about to graduate nursing school and pretty much have a job lined up at the second largest hospital in the state, great right? Well here is the catch, they are "magnet" status meaning they want all of there nurses to have a bachelors degree which should not be a big deal, right? Problem is that they require that you get your bachelors at a local private university (they have some kind of contract with this college) which will run somewhere around 25-30k. Other programs run 10-15k.

Here are some additional facts-
-I live with my parents and can continue to do so as long as I am being "productive" by their definition. I will likely work out some trivial amount to pay them in rent (considering the value I get, likely around 500$/month) because I want to contribute.
-I would work full time (36hrs/week or greater) at roughly 33$/hour (range for new grads is anywhere from 28-33)
-They put you in what they call their "new grad program" for 6 months, upon completion of this program they require you to agree to work 2 years for them.
-They pay up to 3000/calendar year in tuition reimbursement, after 6 months of service.

That is all the information I can think of right now, any additional information needed feel free to ask, thanks.

Elliot

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Re: New nurse graduate looking for advice
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2015, 06:12:14 PM »
I'd had several classmates graduate with fabulous offers that required a contract. I'll be straight with you, there is a reason they have to trap a new grad. Run the fuck away. Apply elsewhere, because those working conditions are likely either borderline unsafe or full of work politics.

southernhippie

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Re: New nurse graduate looking for advice
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2015, 06:21:30 PM »
I agree with Elliot.

The reason for a contract is because they can't keep good experienced nurses there because those nurse's know better about unsafe practices.  "Magnet" status isn't that glamorous.  I work for a magnet hospital and trust me its just a title.  Nursing is a very hard job to begin with.  You don't want to start your career in a bad environment.

Bracken_Joy

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Re: New nurse graduate looking for advice
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2015, 06:26:23 PM »
I'd had several classmates graduate with fabulous offers that required a contract. I'll be straight with you, there is a reason they have to trap a new grad. Run the fuck away. Apply elsewhere, because those working conditions are likely either borderline unsafe or full of work politics.

Well, Magnet status is specifically about safety and environment... I disagree. This is a super common practice with residency programs. It takes a ton of time, money, and effort to train a new grad. Hospitals don't want someone walking away with their investment until they get their ROI. Makes perfect sense. And new grads do want to walk- more school or bounce between hospitals for raises, etc.

Elliot

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Re: New nurse graduate looking for advice
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2015, 06:40:24 PM »
magnet status is a separate thing from the new grad contract. I also work at a magnet hospital, and co-chair our magnet steering committee, We have no contracts or sign-on bonuses for new grads.

Mrkineticz

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Re: New nurse graduate looking for advice
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2015, 06:49:10 PM »
As a registered nurse myself. I have an associates degree and I could care less for magnet stAtus.. I realized contracts are based off of 2 things either your applying for a specialty that the hospital is goING to invest alot of time and money on you or the hospital has a very high turnover rate that it needs new grads to contract for 1 or 2 nears.  I did the bouncing game and I increased my salary. My fiance is a heart transplant nurse and has a bachelor's in a magnet hospital making less money than me Because she was suckered into a 2 yr contract and doesn't want to leave.

make sure the company you work for has an employer match and good insurance benefits. There's alot of work for you so maximize the amount of over time you csn get .. congrats on graduating soon! I know nursing school is hard

Murse

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Re: New nurse graduate looking for advice
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2015, 07:41:36 PM »
I'd had several classmates graduate with fabulous offers that required a contract. I'll be straight with you, there is a reason they have to trap a new grad. Run the fuck away. Apply elsewhere, because those working conditions are likely either borderline unsafe or full of work politics.

The two year contract doesn't really scare me. I have had clinicals there and it seemed fine to me. The match is up to 4% starting the first month and then an additional 1% for each year of service up to a total of 9%. They are investing a lot into the new grads, they will put us into any specialty (supposedly, have not yet gotten the offer) including many icu settings, psych, or, peds, med surg, oncology ect... My objection is about the required bachelors, I am not sure that I want to do anymore school let alone a 30k program. I would like to get to FI asap. I would prefer working for the state where they give a 5% differential for a bachelors if you want to get it, but doesn't force it. The state also gets 457's which sounds amazing. However, they start pay at 29$/hour. Problem is that the private institutions hire prior to our graduation date, the state will only hire after you have your license in hand, and who knows if they will have any jobs available by then?

LifeSaver

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Re: New nurse graduate looking for advice
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2015, 07:57:03 PM »
Murse,

It seems to me that you might want to do some research into the required contract.  Elliot and Bracken-Joy are both correct in their points.  You need to find out the true reason there is a contract ( I would start with an informal visit with some the staff that work in the hospital).  It is true that new nurses are very expensive to train.  Your training at the hospital you mentioned would cost them roughly:

 $33/hr x 36hrs x 6 months =$31000+workers comp/benefits. 

If the program is good then I would move on to the requirement of the bachelors training program and the contract with the private university.  $25K seems like a steep price to pay for an ADN to BSN program.  It might financially benefit you to look into other facilities that don't have this requirement.  This $25k is in addition to any undergraduate debt you may carry (I'm making an assumption that you might have some).  I would recommend you expand on the math below and tailor it to your situation to find out if the extra cost for this job is financially smart.

Gross pay: $61776/yr
Taxes: Estimating 25% effective tax rate = $15444
Net pay: $46332
Rent: $500/mo = $6000/yr
Food: ???
Fun: ???
Transportation (car/gas/bike): ???
Clothing: ???
Etc.: ???
BSN education: $10k-30K

As a side note: Starting your career off on the right foot with a strong "new grad program" that will challenge you to grow as a nurse and a person is hard to quantify.  Your future self and your future patients will all benefit from the decisions you make today!  You will need to find an appropriate balance between financial cost and quality mentoring/working environment.

Congrats on graduating!  On to conquer the state boards!





Murse

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Re: New nurse graduate looking for advice
« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2015, 08:09:24 PM »
I guess it would be valuable for me to inform everyone that I have several classmates that work there as cna's and intend to stay there, also the hospital took something like 30% of our new grads last year and I know they are happy there. They actually told us to stay away from one floor in particular because the retention rate on it is the lowest in the entire hospital.

And I probably owe around a total of 2000 to my parents for school loans borrowed from the bank of dad.

Murse

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Re: New nurse graduate looking for advice
« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2015, 08:18:55 PM »
My problem with the 2 years is it will keep me from that state job with that awesome 457.

LifeSaver

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Re: New nurse graduate looking for advice
« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2015, 08:30:05 PM »
The $4/hr difference would add up to an additional $7500 a year.  It seems to me that with your hesitancy to obtain the BSN and the fact that the additional schooling is going to cost quite a bit more than the $15K ($7500yr x 2years) in additional income you might gain, that it might be best to find a starting place that does not have the same requirements of a lengthy contract.  That way you leave your options open once you have passed the boards, to possibly attain that state job you so highly covet.

Bracken_Joy

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Re: New nurse graduate looking for advice
« Reply #11 on: April 19, 2015, 08:46:49 PM »
Are you in an at-will state? Obviously you don't want to burn any bridges unnecessarily, but "contract" can have different levels of requirement in different places.

Murse

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Re: New nurse graduate looking for advice
« Reply #12 on: April 19, 2015, 08:47:44 PM »
Are you in an at-will state? Obviously you don't want to burn any bridges unnecessarily, but "contract" can have different levels of requirement in different places.
not quite sure what that means. I am in the same state as you are.

Bracken_Joy

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Re: New nurse graduate looking for advice
« Reply #13 on: April 19, 2015, 08:55:57 PM »
In that case, yes, you are in an at-will state.

"What is an at will employee?

At-will means that an employer can terminate an employee at any time for any reason, except an illegal one, or for no reason without incurring legal liability. Likewise, an employee is free to leave a job at any time for any or no reason with no adverse legal consequences."

Technically, in this state, you can't really be bound to an employment term. Although they can place caveats about repayment for training, etc. Just something to keep in mind.

Mrkineticz

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Re: New nurse graduate looking for advice
« Reply #14 on: April 20, 2015, 09:43:38 AM »
You don't need a bachelor's for nursing. The only benefit you get is maybe a 25 cent raise, the ability to be charge nurse or supervisor for a dollar more. The major con is that you will have student loans. I applied for a state job at the start of my career. I noticed most people in state jobs have lots of experience. I don't know if that state hospital would be hiring new grads?

Murse

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Re: New nurse graduate looking for advice
« Reply #15 on: April 20, 2015, 09:59:59 AM »
You don't need a bachelor's for nursing. The only benefit you get is maybe a 25 cent raise, the ability to be charge nurse or supervisor for a dollar more. The major con is that you will have student loans. I applied for a state job at the start of my career. I noticed most people in state jobs have lots of experience. I don't know if that state hospital would be hiring new grads?

To this point they do, they told us so on our rotation (and they hired a couple from our previous class.)

Elliot

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Re: New nurse graduate looking for advice
« Reply #16 on: April 20, 2015, 12:23:18 PM »
It is totally fine to graduate without an offer in the nursing field. Our professors made it sound like the end of the world, but I suspect they had some sort of performance measure to meet, so they could say "90% of our students graduate with job offers!" or whatever.

I graduated without offer so that I could go for the state job. No regrets.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2015, 01:37:18 PM by Elliot »

Axecleaver

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Re: New nurse graduate looking for advice
« Reply #17 on: April 20, 2015, 12:56:05 PM »
My sister (she's now 40) worked as a health aide for a few years after graduating high school, then decided to get her associate's nursing degree. She went to work for the State, working three 12 hour days a week, and took side jobs as a private duty nurse. She got unbelievable benefits from the state job, and a really sweet pension. She made a lot more $ on the private duty gigs, but they were unreliable and she couldn't always count on them - ie, a perfect side hustle.

She started her family in her mid 30's and now has three kids. She ended up going part time and doing one day a week on her state job, so she continues earning pension credits, and went back to school full time. She decided to go back for her Bachelors because she wants to be eligible for the nursing management roles, not because of the pay differential. In her market (suburban NYC) the Nursing Bachelors is only necessary if you want to manage.

My advice, take a close look at the contract and see what would happen if you took this job, started your bachelor's degree, and then were offered a state job. Are you required to start the bachelor's program right away or could you defer it for a year? Would you be able to withdraw from the bachelor's program and get a partial refund if you were offered a state job? See if there are other facilities you could work that are more temporary in nature - those might be good options until your state role comes in.

CALL 911

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Re: New nurse graduate looking for advice
« Reply #18 on: April 20, 2015, 01:05:31 PM »
Problem is that they require that you get your bachelors at a local private university (they have some kind of contract with this college) which will run somewhere around 25-30k. Other programs run 10-15k.


This is the scariest line in your whole thing. WHY is the ONLY acceptable BSN from a local expensive private school? Coupled with a  2 year contract, this isn't a good gig. I would keep looking, unless you need to live in your parents basement and they're the only hospital within 30 miles.

Also, why do you figure you'll start at $33 when you said the going starting rate is $28-33?

AlwaysBeenASaver

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Re: New nurse graduate looking for advice
« Reply #19 on: April 20, 2015, 01:31:58 PM »
You want to work for the state, your expenses sound low (still living with parents), I would say wait until you graduate and see what the state has open. If they have no openings at that time, then start applying to private institutions that you think you'd like to work at. Don't let this one institution bully you into signing a contract that's not what you're really looking for.

Murse

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Re: New nurse graduate looking for advice
« Reply #20 on: April 20, 2015, 01:35:30 PM »
Problem is that they require that you get your bachelors at a local private university (they have some kind of contract with this college) which will run somewhere around 25-30k. Other programs run 10-15k.


This is the scariest line in your whole thing. WHY is the ONLY acceptable BSN from a local expensive private school? Coupled with a  2 year contract, this isn't a good gig. I would keep looking, unless you need to live in your parents basement and they're the only hospital within 30 miles.

Also, why do you figure you'll start at $33 when you said the going starting rate is $28-33?

There is this hospital and the state jobs within 30 miles. The reason I quote 33$/hr is because on the application for there new grad program it is stated that the pay is 33/hr. That is the highest paying hospital in my area with the lowest being 28.

waffle

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Re: New nurse graduate looking for advice
« Reply #21 on: April 20, 2015, 01:44:11 PM »
I don't know a lot about nursing, but from what I do understand its a pretty in demand profession, so if I were you I'd approach it like you are the customer. Apply to many hospitals until you have multiple offers and then go for the best deal. 

MrsPete

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Re: New nurse graduate looking for advice
« Reply #22 on: April 20, 2015, 02:55:25 PM »
You don't need a bachelor's for nursing. The only benefit you get is maybe a 25 cent raise, the ability to be charge nurse or supervisor for a dollar more.
Perhaps it varies from place to place, but here the difference between an RN and a BSRN is more than .25/hour.  Plus the BSRN will be more attractive to potential employers.

However, "upgrading" your degree to a BSRN is a good idea, I don't like the idea of the hospital saying that only that one school will do. 

At the same time, two years is pretty much nothing in the grand scheme of things.  If you think it's a good option (and between the ability to live at home /save and the tuition reimbursement, it isn't a stinker of a deal), committing yourself for two years isn't all that much. 

Murse

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Re: New nurse graduate looking for advice
« Reply #23 on: April 20, 2015, 06:41:07 PM »
You don't need a bachelor's for nursing. The only benefit you get is maybe a 25 cent raise, the ability to be charge nurse or supervisor for a dollar more. The major con is that you will have student loans. I applied for a state job at the start of my career. I noticed most people in state jobs have lots of experience. I don't know if that state hospital would be hiring new grads?

I think this is too broad.

For starters, the ANA has a stated goal to have 80% of nurses BSN level or higher by 2020.  They won't get there but they're a driving force in nursing and it's what they're pushing for.

Additionally, if you want to get more degrees (which it seems like a ton of nurses do), then it's good to get the BSN.  If there's interest in a DON/CNO level position he'll have to get past the associate level.  Even outside of DON/CNO, Oregon has great NP Scope of Practice laws.  There's an ability for Murse to open up a clinic in early retirement (like in MMM's last article) without doctor oversight, I believe.

Now, this is a FIRE board.  If your goal is to get in, get 10 years of clinical experience and then retire, I agree with Mrkineticz.  In fact, if your desire is to stay in clinical nursing throughout your career regardless of its length then I think you'd be fine.  But I just wanted to give my two cents from the other side of the coin.
Thanks for the input. I have considered the np route, we actually have the best laws in the nation. But every time I think about it I think about the money, it is never the job role. I finally understand that I know nothing of what I want from life but I do know that FI can get me anything. My goal is FI, if I then decide I want to become a np, money will not be a consideration.

Mrkineticz

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Re: New nurse graduate looking for advice
« Reply #24 on: April 21, 2015, 12:35:16 PM »
You don't need a bachelor's for nursing. The only benefit you get is maybe a 25 cent raise, the ability to be charge nurse or supervisor for a dollar more. The major con is that you will have student loans. I applied for a state job at the start of my career. I noticed most people in state jobs have lots of experience. I don't know if that state hospital would be hiring new grads?

I think this is too broad.

For starters, the ANA has a stated goal to have 80% of nurses BSN level or higher by 2020.  They won't get there but they're a driving force in nursing and it's what they're pushing for.

Additionally, if you want to get more degrees (which it seems like a ton of nurses do), then it's good to get the BSN.  If there's interest in a DON/CNO level position he'll have to get past the associate level.  Even outside of DON/CNO, Oregon has great NP Scope of Practice laws.  There's an ability for Murse to open up a clinic in early retirement (like in MMM's last article) without doctor oversight, I believe.

Now, this is a FIRE board.  If your goal is to get in, get 10 years of clinical experience and then retire, I agree with Mrkineticz.  In fact, if your desire is to stay in clinical nursing throughout your career regardless of its length then I think you'd be fine.  But I just wanted to give my two cents from the other side of the coin.

Im just speaking from my point of view. no way is the wrong way. My parents are nurses both over 20+ years and they told me they have been trying to push nurses to have bachelors degrees in the past. I honestly think requiring 80% of all nurses in america to have bachelors degrees by 2020 is a very big dream to attain especially when there isnt enough incentive to move to a bachelors. I also agree that going for an np is great as well but then will incur more student loans but if money is not a consideration then go for it!. I dont have any interests in being a DON or a CNO and play politics. :-)

Murse

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Re: New nurse graduate looking for advice
« Reply #25 on: April 21, 2015, 01:00:25 PM »
You don't need a bachelor's for nursing. The only benefit you get is maybe a 25 cent raise, the ability to be charge nurse or supervisor for a dollar more. The major con is that you will have student loans. I applied for a state job at the start of my career. I noticed most people in state jobs have lots of experience. I don't know if that state hospital would be hiring new grads?

I think this is too broad.

For starters, the ANA has a stated goal to have 80% of nurses BSN level or higher by 2020.  They won't get there but they're a driving force in nursing and it's what they're pushing for.

Additionally, if you want to get more degrees (which it seems like a ton of nurses do), then it's good to get the BSN.  If there's interest in a DON/CNO level position he'll have to get past the associate level.  Even outside of DON/CNO, Oregon has great NP Scope of Practice laws.  There's an ability for Murse to open up a clinic in early retirement (like in MMM's last article) without doctor oversight, I believe.

Now, this is a FIRE board.  If your goal is to get in, get 10 years of clinical experience and then retire, I agree with Mrkineticz.  In fact, if your desire is to stay in clinical nursing throughout your career regardless of its length then I think you'd be fine.  But I just wanted to give my two cents from the other side of the coin.

Im just speaking from my point of view. no way is the wrong way. My parents are nurses both over 20+ years and they told me they have been trying to push nurses to have bachelors degrees in the past. I honestly think requiring 80% of all nurses in america to have bachelors degrees by 2020 is a very big dream to attain especially when there isnt enough incentive to move to a bachelors. I also agree that going for an np is great as well but then will incur more student loans but if money is not a consideration then go for it!. I dont have any interests in being a DON or a CNO and play politics. :-)

I agree. The point of a bachelors for me is do I want to do more school for easier mobility? I don't ever think it will be required everywhere, but at the same time I think it does make it easier to get jobs at some places. But there is a trade for that (both time and money.) I found out a hospital near me which I previously thought required a bachelors from anywhere within 2 years does not require a bachelors at all. I don't know why I thought it did and I loved that hospital (I am actually doing my preceptorship there.) I will try to make a good impression and see what happens. The only con with this hospital is it is 60ish miles away from my parents, so I would likely move there and be trading tuition costs for living costs.

purple monkey

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Re: New nurse graduate looking for advice
« Reply #26 on: April 21, 2015, 01:31:24 PM »
Congratulations!

It really depends.  Are you going to further your education ever?
Look around at the staff nurses.  At least 3/4 are young and new graduates.
Talk with others.  A magnet hospital is generally a better work environment anyway.
Living at home can certainly help with the decision.
Suggest studying magnet status a little more:

http://www.nursecredentialing.org/Magnet/International/MagnetProgOverview/MagnetProgFAQ.html

Good luck!

Bracken_Joy

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Re: New nurse graduate looking for advice
« Reply #27 on: April 21, 2015, 06:45:30 PM »
Depending on what part of the state OP is in (I have a pretty good guess), he will need a BSN to be competitive as a new grad. Anything within an hour of Portland is pretty nurse saturated, and the hospitals have the pick... it's a buyers market, especially for new grads. Added to that, anyone who is Magnet or wants to get Magnet (ie, most of the hospital systems in Portland and Salem), is required to have a certain % of BSNs, as Murse mentioned.

Elliot

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Re: New nurse graduate looking for advice
« Reply #28 on: April 21, 2015, 07:03:52 PM »
Congratulations!

It really depends.  Are you going to further your education ever?
Look around at the staff nurses.  At least 3/4 are young and new graduates.
Talk with others.  A magnet hospital is generally a better work environment anyway.
Living at home can certainly help with the decision.
Suggest studying magnet status a little more:

http://www.nursecredentialing.org/Magnet/International/MagnetProgOverview/MagnetProgFAQ.html

Good luck!

Are you working at NCLEX hospital? :P

purple monkey

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Re: New nurse graduate looking for advice
« Reply #29 on: April 21, 2015, 09:13:54 PM »
I don't know what an NCLEX hospital is.  The NCLEX is an exam all nursing students take.

I have experience in both type hospitals and the magnet ones are safer and value nurses more.

If you are sick, it is in your best interest that your nurse is happy.

Murse

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Re: New nurse graduate looking for advice
« Reply #30 on: April 22, 2015, 05:24:56 PM »
Congratulations!

It really depends.  Are you going to further your education ever?
Look around at the staff nurses.  At least 3/4 are young and new graduates.
Talk with others.  A magnet hospital is generally a better work environment anyway.
Living at home can certainly help with the decision.
Suggest studying magnet status a little more:

http://www.nursecredentialing.org/Magnet/International/MagnetProgOverview/MagnetProgFAQ.html

Question, where do you believe the older nurses go?

Good luck!

Are you working at NCLEX hospital? :P

Where are all of the older nurses?
« Last Edit: April 22, 2015, 06:14:17 PM by Murse »

Elliot

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Re: New nurse graduate looking for advice
« Reply #31 on: April 22, 2015, 06:11:59 PM »
The joke is that at NCLEX hospital, working conditions are perfect. Answer all NCLEX questions like you work at NCLEX hospital not at a real world hospital.