Author Topic: New car vs used car argument.  (Read 1150 times)

lifeminimalized

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New car vs used car argument.
« on: April 18, 2017, 10:40:09 AM »
Is it just me, or does it seem different now?

The bridge between used and new seems too close to go used.

I have always been a follower of the buy used and keep it until repairs cost more then the vehicles worth philosophy.

However, for instance I'm looking at a used '16 Jetta GLI for 24.9 when a dealership a few miles away has an identical new '17 Jetta GLI for 25.4 .

Has anyone else been in the market recently and ran into this, or the opposite? Perhaps it is just with the VW's.

Mezzie

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Re: New car vs used car argument.
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2017, 10:59:42 AM »
You're comparing to a car that's only one year old, though. I don't know about others, but my used cars have been 5-15 years old and the price difference between those and new are pretty big.

neo von retorch

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Re: New car vs used car argument.
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2017, 11:02:29 AM »
My spreadsheet lists car (asking) price, current miles, and then has "price / mile" to 100k, 150k and 200k. Gives you a good idea of what's a decent deal. New actually does OK on the 100k column but usually worse on 150k/200k.

live4soccer7

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Re: New car vs used car argument.
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2017, 11:28:17 AM »
If the models are actually comparable and not a diesel vs gasoline then I would definitely go with the new because the price is so close and you get to take care of the car from day 1. I take really good care of my cars and like to know all the maintenance. With that said, I can work on anything on the vehicles and own two vehicles that are 25+ years old and cost me nearly nothing to keep running, get EXCEPTIONAL mileage, and with a super cheap purchase price (relative to new). Even when the engine needs a rebuild, I can do that for about $1200 and get about 200,000 miles on the rebuild. I'm still on the original engine with 290,000 miles right now and get 52-60mpgs in the summer without effort. The car will rust out in the body/frame before it becomes not worth to repair, FOR ME.

I hope that helps a little. Also remember, if it is a diesel and there are any issues with the engine, it is typically much more expensive than it's gasoline counterpart to fix. Doing homework on the reliability of the specific engine in the car you are looking at and other major aspects is a huge part in buying a new vehicle IMO. A lot of people see it has nice amenities and assume the engine will be great no matter what since it is new and buy it based on that. Do your homework and make the choice that best fits you and ultimately what you're comfortable with. One other thing, they typically many many variants of a single type of car. They can have slightly different engines, intakes, ECU programs, etc... that make them perform more "sporty" or more economically. All things to consider when buying.

Car Jack

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Re: New car vs used car argument.
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2017, 12:44:02 PM »
The answer is "it depends".

You're looking at a Jetta.  I've been considering one for about 2 years now.  I tend to test drive, research, think, test drive more.  After 5 years I get up one morning and go buy something.  Since I've watched VW, I can give you some insite.  VW has for the last 6 months been alternating between "no incentive" and "$5200 incentive".  So while I'm looking at a base model 1.4T S manual car, I know I can wait for the incentive, do zero negotiation and drive out with a brand new one for $14k.  If instead I want to negotiate, I've seen dealers advertise at $13k.  Check dealer web pages for the car.  You might have to check 10 different dealers because lots of them like to hide the incentives and prices and rip you off and put $5k in their pocket.

Ok, on to other models that hold their value.....

Subaru.  Buy new with Impreza, WRX, STi and probably Crosstrek.  Legacy's are the dealer loaner car and you can get serious reductions on a one year old one. 

Honda Civics hold their value for 3 years.  Don't even bother looking at a Civic unless you're at 5 years or more.  Accord.....not so much....especially with the CVT that everyone hates.  Find a manual used Accord and you're golden.

Wranglers.....yah, I know that that's a swear for MMM but I have one and it's pretty hard to mount my snowplow on a Civic.  I ordered mine brand new.  Why?  Because a 2 year old used one was MORE money than what I paid new.  I am sure about this.  I did all the tricks.  Looked all over for used....including craigslist, car gurus, auto trader.  If you want a Wrangler, either buy new or go 10 years old.

There are Toyotas that have the same thing going and at least locally, Camrys go on huge sale once a year.  Like, if you buy new and keep tabs on prices....like $10k under MSRP sale.  They'll be the sea of leftovers when trucks of new year are coming in the lot.  4 runners, old tacos, old land cruisers.....yah, might as well be Lamborghinis....

Where you CAN do well.  1 year old Focus.  First, the standard warning....the dual clutch automatics break in so many ways due to engineering defects that I don't even understand why they still sell the things.  It's cool that they have the type of transmissions that Porsche, Ferrari, Lamborghini, BMW, Audi all use to make their autos faster 0-60 than their manuals.....but it doesn't work in a Focus and when they overheat (they will) or slip (they will) or get scared, the computer says "shut down".  Why all these words?  Because the manual is awesome!  But everyone looks at Consumer Reports and it has a fold out poster that says "this is the worst car we've ever seen in the history of the world" so the value is in the toilet.  Find something with 6k miles on it that MSRP'd for $24k and expect to pay $14k.  But ONLY buy a manual Focus.

If you're looking at some other car, do your homework and figure out if the value stays up.  If it doesn't, find out why.  There are lots of transmission problem cars now.  Subarus have not seemed to fail in numbers like Focus, but the CVT is known to die (ours did in a Crosstrek with 50k miles recently).  So again, if you want it to last, get a manual.

Eric

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Re: New car vs used car argument.
« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2017, 12:52:52 PM »
If you think that the difference in price between 1 year old and new is not large enough, the answer is to buy a car that's older and cheaper, not talk yourself into spending WAY TOO MUCH on a new car.  What does the 2010 model cost?

neo von retorch

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Re: New car vs used car argument.
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2017, 12:53:45 PM »
Where you CAN do well.  1 year old Focus.  First, the standard warning....the dual clutch automatics break in so many ways due to engineering defects that I don't even understand why they still sell the things.  It's cool that they have the type of transmissions that Porsche, Ferrari, Lamborghini, BMW, Audi all use to make their autos faster 0-60 than their manuals.....but it doesn't work in a Focus and when they overheat (they will) or slip (they will) or get scared, the computer says "shut down".  Why all these words?  Because the manual is awesome!  But everyone looks at Consumer Reports and it has a fold out poster that says "this is the worst car we've ever seen in the history of the world" so the value is in the toilet.  Find something with 6k miles on it that MSRP'd for $24k and expect to pay $14k.  But ONLY buy a manual Focus.

What do you think of the Focus ST? And the Fiesta ST? They are on my shopping list (next to Mazda 3 and Fit EX... hmm...)

RWD

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Re: New car vs used car argument.
« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2017, 12:56:55 PM »
Where you CAN do well.  1 year old Focus.  First, the standard warning....the dual clutch automatics break in so many ways due to engineering defects that I don't even understand why they still sell the things.  It's cool that they have the type of transmissions that Porsche, Ferrari, Lamborghini, BMW, Audi all use to make their autos faster 0-60 than their manuals.....but it doesn't work in a Focus and when they overheat (they will) or slip (they will) or get scared, the computer says "shut down".  Why all these words?  Because the manual is awesome!  But everyone looks at Consumer Reports and it has a fold out poster that says "this is the worst car we've ever seen in the history of the world" so the value is in the toilet.  Find something with 6k miles on it that MSRP'd for $24k and expect to pay $14k.  But ONLY buy a manual Focus.

What do you think of the Focus ST? And the Fiesta ST? They are on my shopping list (next to Mazda 3 and Fit EX... hmm...)

This doesn't instill confidence...
https://www.truedelta.com/Ford-Fiesta-vs-Ford-Focus-reliability-comparison,301-88

acroy

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Re: New car vs used car argument.
« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2017, 12:57:20 PM »
WHOA
for that kind of money, VW no bueno. Go get a nice used Vette.
It's very Mustachian:
- great gas mileage, if you keep your foot out of it
- huge cargo capacity, can carry 500lbs of manure
- only 2 seats, discouraging clown-car behavior
- gets you to the destination faster, thereby increasing your quality of life
- spreads joy to people around you
- depreciates much slower than a late model VW

I jest - a little bit. Good luck!

neo von retorch

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Re: New car vs used car argument.
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2017, 01:05:05 PM »
What do you think of the Focus ST? And the Fiesta ST? They are on my shopping list (next to Mazda 3 and Fit EX... hmm...)

This doesn't instill confidence...
https://www.truedelta.com/Ford-Fiesta-vs-Ford-Focus-reliability-comparison,301-88

Shh... you're spoiling it. But too true... ~150 repair trips for 100 cars. I read somewhere the STs have shuddering clutch issues that aren't acknowledged by Ford.

JLee

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Re: New car vs used car argument.
« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2017, 01:27:15 PM »
Where you CAN do well.  1 year old Focus.  First, the standard warning....the dual clutch automatics break in so many ways due to engineering defects that I don't even understand why they still sell the things.  It's cool that they have the type of transmissions that Porsche, Ferrari, Lamborghini, BMW, Audi all use to make their autos faster 0-60 than their manuals.....but it doesn't work in a Focus and when they overheat (they will) or slip (they will) or get scared, the computer says "shut down".  Why all these words?  Because the manual is awesome!  But everyone looks at Consumer Reports and it has a fold out poster that says "this is the worst car we've ever seen in the history of the world" so the value is in the toilet.  Find something with 6k miles on it that MSRP'd for $24k and expect to pay $14k.  But ONLY buy a manual Focus.

What do you think of the Focus ST? And the Fiesta ST? They are on my shopping list (next to Mazda 3 and Fit EX... hmm...)

This doesn't instill confidence...
https://www.truedelta.com/Ford-Fiesta-vs-Ford-Focus-reliability-comparison,301-88

The ST's have completely different engine setups than the base models.