Author Topic: Never been overweight? Tell us about your habits  (Read 10430 times)

JenniferW

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Re: Never been overweight? Tell us about your habits
« Reply #50 on: October 18, 2018, 02:22:51 AM »
Some people just aren't tolerant of a diet full of carbs (especially the refined & grain type) -- in fact most people it seems.   I'm one of them.  I was born in a womb of mother with gestational diabetes.  I have obesity and diabetes genes -- lots of them (according to 23AndMe DNA test results).  I was obese since I was an infant.  I was fed refined carbs since I was a baby. We were a poor family and macaroni & cheese, spaghetti, breakfast cereal, bread, potatoes & rice were cheap.

I also had asthma since I was an infant, which I had to take steroid medicine for which causes constant dumping of sugar into blood stream due to increase cortisol.  This boosted insulin resistance, combined with the above.

I"ve been obese my entire life.  But I finally learned about keto & low carb diet to control my diabetes.  I've lost 100 lbs so far on keto / lchf and have kept that off for 2 years now without any effort.  I still have more to lose but its hard because I am extremely insulin resistant (HOMA-IR of 3.65).  [In fact I find the more fat I eat the more my metabolism increases to burn it as long as I keep my carbs down.. as I soon as I eat a few hundred calories of carbs... weight gain begins and can never lose weight.. eating carbs slows down my metabolism to a crawl. I could eat 3000 calories of fat and not gain a pound but as soon as I add in the carbs, then I balloon. ]

All these decades I ate carbs trying to lose weight always wondering why I could never lose weight and keep it off.

Last time I lost a lot of weight, many years ago when I was 21 (I'm 47 now), I was intermittent fasting without realizing I was.. I ate no breakfast, ate a 200 calories microwave tv dinenr for lunch at work and ate a normal meal for dinner not full of carbs.  But then I read the book "Eat to Win" which advocated complex carbs, to lose weight.  I started eating rice and potatoes for dinner (still skipping breakfast and eating that tv dinner for lunch), and for the life of me I couldn't figure why I could not lose anymore weight.  I kept the calories down but it just halted entirely ever since I started eating all those carbs for dinner.  Now I know it was due to insulin resistance and my body was not tolerant of carbs.

I recommend the book "Why We Get Fat" by Gary Taubes and then if interested in LCHF, the book "The Art & Science of Low Carbohydrate Living" by Phinney & volek.  If interested in Keto, the book "Keto Clarity" by Jimmy Moore.  If interested in intermittent fasting:  "Obesity Code" & "The Complete Guide to Fasting" (both by Jason Fung).

EDIT: I should add stress increases cortisol (so you can run form the tiger), which again causes the liver to dump a lot of sugar, which you don't burn because you aren't running.   This increased sugar in blood increases insulin to store it back into your body.  Ever increasing insulin causes insulin resistance which makes your body make even more insulin for the rest of your life.. as you know insulin is fat storing hormone.. you get enough insulin in your bloodstream it becomes almost impossible to lose weight. 

EDIT #2:  I believe the best time to exercise is like 30 minutes to an hour after you eat a meal with carbs in it.  This is because the exercise will help burn the sugar, your body producing less insulin as a result.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2018, 03:13:54 AM by JenniferW »

CindyBS

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Re: Never been overweight? Tell us about your habits
« Reply #51 on: October 18, 2018, 08:22:03 AM »
Just curious, how many never overweight folks have ever had a conversation with a medical professional about obesity?
 
To me the idea that a never overweight person who is not medical professional or obesity specialist can give advice on this issue is as absurd as a person who has never had cancer can tell all the folks out there battling cancer what to do. 

Then instead of being supportive, throw in some comments about how it can't be genetics (citation from a peer reviewed journal article on that or just uneducated guess?), it is all your behavior, etc. with no formal training or personal experience in the subject.  All unsolicited advice of course, with a dab of righteousness thrown in.

Pick any other medical condition - cancer, diabetes, parkinson's disease and insert them in some of these posts instead of "overweight" or "obese" and it would be laughable.

wenchsenior

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Re: Never been overweight? Tell us about your habits
« Reply #52 on: October 18, 2018, 08:52:46 AM »
Just curious, how many never overweight folks have ever had a conversation with a medical professional about obesity?
 
To me the idea that a never overweight person who is not medical professional or obesity specialist can give advice on this issue is as absurd as a person who has never had cancer can tell all the folks out there battling cancer what to do. 

Then instead of being supportive, throw in some comments about how it can't be genetics (citation from a peer reviewed journal article on that or just uneducated guess?), it is all your behavior, etc. with no formal training or personal experience in the subject.  All unsolicited advice of course, with a dab of righteousness thrown in.

Pick any other medical condition - cancer, diabetes, parkinson's disease and insert them in some of these posts instead of "overweight" or "obese" and it would be laughable.

Great point.  There's always going to be some people around who think being thin makes them superior to overweight people and want to tell them how simple it is, or how overweight people are somehow morally inferior, or whatever other offensive crap makes them feel good about themselves.

But that doesn't seem to be the OP's angle, which seems to stem more from naivete or some false assumptions.  And it looks like most of us who commented agree that describing/modeling our lifestyles is at best unhelpful, and at worst condescending, to the vast majority of overweight people because most of us 'got lucky' in terms of physiology, psychology, or whatever.

The reason I commented on this thread, despite my dislike of the original premise, was b/c I thought it might be helpful to the OP to rethink his assumptions about why people are or are not overweight. 

PeteD01

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Re: Never been overweight? Tell us about your habits
« Reply #53 on: October 18, 2018, 11:18:46 AM »
Just curious, how many never overweight folks have ever had a conversation with a medical professional about obesity?
 
To me the idea that a never overweight person who is not medical professional or obesity specialist can give advice on this issue is as absurd as a person who has never had cancer can tell all the folks out there battling cancer what to do. 

Then instead of being supportive, throw in some comments about how it can't be genetics (citation from a peer reviewed journal article on that or just uneducated guess?), it is all your behavior, etc. with no formal training or personal experience in the subject.  All unsolicited advice of course, with a dab of righteousness thrown in.

Pick any other medical condition - cancer, diabetes, parkinson's disease and insert them in some of these posts instead of "overweight" or "obese" and it would be laughable.

Great point.  There's always going to be some people around who think being thin makes them superior to overweight people and want to tell them how simple it is, or how overweight people are somehow morally inferior, or whatever other offensive crap makes them feel good about themselves.

But that doesn't seem to be the OP's angle, which seems to stem more from naivete or some false assumptions.  And it looks like most of us who commented agree that describing/modeling our lifestyles is at best unhelpful, and at worst condescending, to the vast majority of overweight people because most of us 'got lucky' in terms of physiology, psychology, or whatever.

The reason I commented on this thread, despite my dislike of the original premise, was b/c I thought it might be helpful to the OP to rethink his assumptions about why people are or are not overweight.

I am (was, because I’m FIRE’d) actually a medical professional with extensive experience with obese patients.
It is actually very difficult to get people, who happen to be normal weight without effort, to tell what their behaviors are. That’s understandable because they simply do not have the focus on these issues. If you ask them how they keep their weight stable, they typically say things like “I’m just not putting on weight”, “I’m different and cannot possibly be helpful”, “I don’t exercise at all” (typically coming from a woman who just pushed the wheelchair of her obese husband all the way into the clinic). There are some examples in this thread. I’m pretty sure no never overweight people will respond in this thread anymore because they’ve been outed as just being lucky and anything they say would be considered condescending if not accompanied by an apology. So why bother.

The fact remains that as of today about 70% of Americans are overweight/obese and at least 30% have fatty liver detectable by noninvasive means (no biopsy, with biopsy, the rate might be substantially higher). But that leaves 30% normal weight individuals exposed to the same environment unaffected. Preemptively dismissing this still relatively large population as genetically gifted or weird is not really helpful in getting to the bottom of things. First of all, genetics do not explain anything unless there is an associated mechanism.

We know that the normal weight do not glow in the dark or are warmer to the touch than the overweight. There is, however, one small study showing that normal weight self identified couch potatoes move around more than 150 minutes per day more than overweight self identified couch potatoes even after those lost weight. It appears to be genetic and therefore cannot be called a habit. The subjects were not aware of this at all and one could not have found out by interviewing the subjects. Here you have an instance of a genetically determined different response to identical environmental conditions (opportunity of remaining immobile) which can only be overcome by by the genetically disadvantaged by habit formation or change of environment.

http://science.sciencemag.org/content/sci/307/5709/584.full.pdf

(Article is free after registration)

Studying the never overweight is severely neglected for the simple reason that they do not show up in the settimgs where obesity research is carried out - why would they? Right. However, this does not mean that there is nothing to be learned from them. After all, there is not other population to study from which one can learn about different responses to a hostile obesogenic environment and how to preserve non-consciously isocaloric food intake in that environment.

I have to go to the organic food coop meeting to pick up our monthly share and will continue later.








« Last Edit: October 18, 2018, 11:22:29 AM by PeteD01 »

Roots&Wings

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Re: Never been overweight? Tell us about your habits
« Reply #54 on: October 18, 2018, 11:36:06 AM »
Just curious, how many never overweight folks have ever had a conversation with a medical professional about obesity?

Yes, the doctors in my family regularly lament the poor diet and lifestyle choices made by their obese patients. Even with coaching, many won't change.

Many companies have health coaching and information sessions with medical professionals that discuss the importance of lifestyle choices, diet, sleep, and exercise for overall health and combating obesity.


To me the idea that a never overweight person who is not medical professional or obesity specialist can give advice on this issue is as absurd as a person who has never had cancer can tell all the folks out there battling cancer what to do. 

This is forum geared towards knowledge sharing, optimization, and DIY. The idea that only specialists can give advice is one of the weirdest things I've seen here in awhile. But yes, unsolicited advice is rarely welcome.

BicycleB

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Re: Never been overweight? Tell us about your habits
« Reply #55 on: October 18, 2018, 12:28:20 PM »

Great point.  There's always going to be some people around who think being thin makes them superior to overweight people and want to tell them how simple it is, or how overweight people are somehow morally inferior, or whatever other offensive crap makes them feel good about themselves.

But that doesn't seem to be the OP's angle ...

I am (was, because I’m FIRE’d) actually a medical professional with extensive experience with obese patients.
It is actually very difficult to get people, who happen to be normal weight without effort, to tell what their behaviors are. That’s understandable because they simply do not have the focus on these issues...

The fact remains that as of today about 70% of Americans are overweight/obese and at least 30% have fatty liver detectable by noninvasive means (no biopsy, with biopsy, the rate might be substantially higher). But that leaves 30% normal weight individuals exposed to the same environment unaffected. Preemptively dismissing this still relatively large population as genetically gifted or weird is not really helpful in getting to the bottom of things...

There is, however, one small study showing that normal weight self identified couch potatoes move around more than 150 minutes per day more than overweight self identified couch potatoes even after those lost weight. It appears to be genetic and therefore cannot be called a habit. The subjects were not aware of this at all and one could not have found out by interviewing the subjects. Here you have an instance of a genetically determined different response to identical environmental conditions (opportunity of remaining immobile) which can only be overcome by by the genetically disadvantaged by habit formation or change of environment.

http://science.sciencemag.org/content/sci/307/5709/584.full.pdf

(Article is free after registration)

Studying the never overweight is severely neglected for the simple reason that they do not show up in the settimgs where obesity research is carried out - why would they? Right. However, this does not mean that there is nothing to be learned from them. After all, there is not other population to study from which one can learn about different responses to a hostile obesogenic environment and how to preserve non-consciously isocaloric food intake in that environment...

Ok, that's interesting. And I guess flak comes from both sides. In which case, as a fellow truth seeker, I respect your persistence.

While awaiting your return: If the people who are non-obese are not aware of our different behaviors, how would the self reporting requested in this thread be likely to elicit useful data?

Curious now.

PS. Much of my reaction and perhaps others was in response to framing in the original post about the weight loss threads being depressing. Hopefully you can see where the confusion arose.

PeteD01

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Re: Never been overweight? Tell us about your habits
« Reply #56 on: October 18, 2018, 02:26:04 PM »

Great point.  There's always going to be some people around who think being thin makes them superior to overweight people and want to tell them how simple it is, or how overweight people are somehow morally inferior, or whatever other offensive crap makes them feel good about themselves.

But that doesn't seem to be the OP's angle ...

I am (was, because I’m FIRE’d) actually a medical professional with extensive experience with obese patients.
It is actually very difficult to get people, who happen to be normal weight without effort, to tell what their behaviors are. That’s understandable because they simply do not have the focus on these issues...

The fact remains that as of today about 70% of Americans are overweight/obese and at least 30% have fatty liver detectable by noninvasive means (no biopsy, with biopsy, the rate might be substantially higher). But that leaves 30% normal weight individuals exposed to the same environment unaffected. Preemptively dismissing this still relatively large population as genetically gifted or weird is not really helpful in getting to the bottom of things...

There is, however, one small study showing that normal weight self identified couch potatoes move around more than 150 minutes per day more than overweight self identified couch potatoes even after those lost weight. It appears to be genetic and therefore cannot be called a habit. The subjects were not aware of this at all and one could not have found out by interviewing the subjects. Here you have an instance of a genetically determined different response to identical environmental conditions (opportunity of remaining immobile) which can only be overcome by by the genetically disadvantaged by habit formation or change of environment.

http://science.sciencemag.org/content/sci/307/5709/584.full.pdf

(Article is free after registration)

Studying the never overweight is severely neglected for the simple reason that they do not show up in the settimgs where obesity research is carried out - why would they? Right. However, this does not mean that there is nothing to be learned from them. After all, there is not other population to study from which one can learn about different responses to a hostile obesogenic environment and how to preserve non-consciously isocaloric food intake in that environment...

Ok, that's interesting. And I guess flak comes from both sides. In which case, as a fellow truth seeker, I respect your persistence.

While awaiting your return: If the people who are non-obese are not aware of our different behaviors, how would the self reporting requested in this thread be likely to elicit useful data?

Curious now.

PS. Much of my reaction and perhaps others was in response to framing in the original post about the weight loss threads being depressing. Hopefully you can see where the confusion arose.

Self reporting has serious limitations and that’s why most of the empirical nutrition science is junk. The request I made asks about habits regarding physical activity, food and sleep. But what is equally, or even more, interesting is how people respond and what they do not say.

For example, although I made a pretty strong effort to elicit responses regarding physical activity, the reported physical activity was underwhelming.

People did not mention particular diets much although one person reportd “Paleo’ish”, which is interesting because Paleo tends to be more about individual real foods than the usual macronutrient diet talk.
Not consuming much processed food is also frequently reported and almost always without much elaboration or emphasis. Most responders refer to actual real foods and do not refer to calories at all. That’s not surprising because many real foods do not come with convenient labels to figure out macronutrients and calories. I do not get the impression that the responders look at food through the lens of “nutritionism”.
All this supports that the reported lower intake of processed food of the never overweight is really lower than average (US average  is around 60% of total energy intake). Of course it doesn’t prove it but it looks like that exposure to engineered food is lower in the never overweight responders.For some reason, the never overweight appear to resist somewhat the constant drumbeat of advertising and the constant availability of engineered food without stressing out about it.

Another interesting thing is that some say they just stop eating when they are full or that they are skipping meals which is really only another way to say that their internal food regulation is working just fine. Restricting food intake is not reported much, probably less than issues with not losing weight unintentionally.

Bottom line, the never overweight seem to have intact internal food intake regulation and have been able to preserve that in an environment that seems to be designed to poison that controller.


« Last Edit: October 18, 2018, 11:04:35 PM by PeteD01 »

Ecky

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Re: Never been overweight? Tell us about your habits
« Reply #57 on: October 18, 2018, 03:11:17 PM »
I understand the limitations of self-reporting. That said, here's my self-report:

When I was 21 I weighed 125lbs (5'6"). My diet wasn't great, but neither was it awful. No soda, but often sweet tea. I ate college cafe food, which was often chicken wings, pizza, burgers, etc. It was pretty typical that I'd forget to eat for a while, and would only realize it was time to feed myself when I got irritable and started trembling.

Around age 22 I switched to a strictly vegan diet which was heavy in whole foods - lots of beans, rice, leafy greens, cruciferous vegetables. I still forget to eat pretty often until I feel the physical effects of it, but I believe the overall bulk of food I eat increased. Over the following ~12 months I lost around 10lbs, and have remained this weight (~116, give or take 2lbs) for the last 8 years.

AnswerIs42

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Re: Never been overweight? Tell us about your habits
« Reply #58 on: October 18, 2018, 03:31:28 PM »
I recommend the book "Why We Get Fat" by Gary Taubes

+1, this is a great book, it does a good job debunking the lies we've been told about fat and carbs over the last 40 years. Read it cover to cover, it will change your life.

For me personally:

"Extreme low carb, but eating as much as I want" diet => 13 stone / 182 lbs
"Eating and drinking whatever I want, within reason" diet => 16 stone / 224 lbs

Usually I'm somewhere in the middle, because I don't have the willpower to do extreme low carb all the time. But, for me, it works.

CalBal

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Re: Never been overweight? Tell us about your habits
« Reply #59 on: October 18, 2018, 04:52:10 PM »
I'll bite, although I don't know how enlightening this will be.

42yo female, never overweight, in fact, often feel underweight. If you look at photos when I was a child and teen, I was skinny, skinny, skinny. In college I was accused of being anorexic. I have never had any issues with or around food or food consumption. I strongly suspect genetics plus environment with a dash of luck in my situation.

Family

Both my parents and multiple (most?) extended family range from husky to downright obese. My parents are overweight (my mother may be obese at this point). However, my grandfathers and one grandmother were thin, and the one great grandmother I met was also very thin. My sister is more muscular than I am but not husky, so I would consider her on the healthy side of thin. I am extremely slender at ~ 115-118 lb and 5'6" - it's the very bottom of the "healthy" range on charts, and I often feel like I would look and feel better if I gained 5 or 10 lbs. Sometimes I wonder if there is something wrong with my thyroid, but I've never been tested (I sort of avoid doctors).

Diet

I am vegetarian and have been so for ~ 15 years (but was the same body type/weight prior). (My sister is vegan and has been for more than 25 years.) I *love* vegetables, and they probably make up the bulk of my diet. This results in me consuming fewer than ideal calories sometimes because they are filling, generally. I don't limit carbs in any way (although I am considering looking at refined white flour as sometimes I feel terrible and tired after eating a lot of bread/pasta). I don't limit sugar, in fact I won't eat/drink sugar free or fat free stuff because I don't like the way it tastes. When I was younger (high school, college), I drank a LOT of regular soda. Now I drink it only occasionally but I drink a LOT of coffee - with cream and sugar. My sugar intake is probably lower now than when I was younger. I have occasionally tried tracking calories to make sure I am getting enough, which is a little tricky as I, like many people are reporting, only rarely eat processed foods. When I do track, it is pretty obvious I often need to increase calories, which I usually try to do with oils, avocado, cheese, sometimes more carbs, but it can be really hard to hit 2000 calories sometimes. When tracking I often hit around 1500-1700 naturally, and then have to work by adding things to make up the rest. I make a lot of my own food, including bread usually, yogurt (plain), granola, vegetable stock, seitan, sometimes pasta, sometimes ice cream or gelato. I feel like I have a high metabolism, and a small stomach, as I feel full pretty quickly. I do graze, because if I waited for "meal times", I would be starving. The one exception is that I can't/don't usually eat breakfast until 10am or later (except for coffee in the morning) because I am simply not hungry and if I eat earlier I have to really force it. So I probably go 10-12 hours overnight not eating. However, during my daytime hours I do eat regular meals, plus snacks in between, and sometimes dessert or nighttime snack before bed. Also, if I don't eat something every 2-3 hours, sometimes I will feel jittery or shaky. I should probably get that checked out. I don't have a lot of self control when it comes to a few specific things, like kettle cooked potato chips (mmmmmm), so I usually just don't buy them. When they are in the house I can eat a bag in 1 - 2 days, and this wreaks havoc with my digestive system, and also sometimes my skin (which is generally, typically, quite good with no special effort). I do have a sweet tooth, and if sweets are offered I will definitely take advantage. I really enjoy cooking and I like trying new things. I like food from a large range of cuisines and will sometimes settle on one for a while before moving on. Like I said, I am vegetarian, for dinner I eat fish about once a week, a bean-centered thing about once a week, sometimes lentils, tofu about once a week, sometimes seitan. I eat eggs and cheese (not as much dairy as I used to, except homemade yogurt and half and half or cream in coffee, occasionally homemade ice cream). I do not eat peanuts or tree nuts as I am allergic. I do drink occasional alcohol, (maybe 2-4 servings per month on average?) everything from mixed drinks to wine and hard cider and sake. I don't drink beer (don't like the taste).

Note: When I was growing up we also ate *mostly* non-processed foods. My father cooked dinners every night consisting of mostly whole foods (with the occasional boxed scalloped potatoes or shake and bake seasoning). We always had a protein (meat), starch (rice, pasta, potatoes, bread), and vegetable (cooked or a salad). Examples: pork chops with canned pineapple and rice. Italian beef and noodles (ground beef, egg noodles, tomato sauce) and green salad (lettuce, cucumber, tomato, carrot, dressing). London broil with baked potato and cooked broccoli. Shake and bake chicken with mashed potato and cooked carrots. Pasta with meat sauce and garlic bread and salad. You get the picture.) My parents were *not* health food nuts. As kids we usually drank milk with dinner, and often other times (cereal with milk for breakfast on weekdays). Nearly my entire grade school career I took bagged lunches that consisted of a tuna sandwich (because I disliked lunch meat), a fruit (apple or orange), a veg (carrot sticks or celery), and 2 small chocolate chip cookies. My parents would cook breakfast for us on weekends too, eggs, or pancakes, or waffles. My parents had a relatively small rotation of meals they went through (maybe a dozen?) but we rarely ate fast food or out at restaurants. We were not denied things like candy, but we had to buy it ourselves if we wanted it. This likely informed my habits later. When I was in college, I ate in the dorms for 2 years, then I lived off campus for 2 years. I ate a lot of pasta with vegetables, tuna sandwiches, cheap cuts of meat. I occasionally cooked things I had eaten at home. (As an adult I cook a huge variety of types of food, so many more than when I was young. Still, being able to cook decently healthy meals to start was likely helpful.) I did drink a lot of soda in high school and college, like I said. I also ate a lot of chips. We almost always had dessert (ice cream usually). For my own life and eating, I believe everything in moderation (so, nothing in particular is "bad"). I eat butter. I eat full fat dairy. I eat salt (but mostly what I add, because, again, not a lot of processed stuff). One thing I do notice - many people in my extended family say they *crave* bread, and eat a ton of it. I don't have this craving, though I enjoy good bread as much as the next person, and I usually bake my own.

Activity Level

I did dance as a child, 3x a week, and in high school I also did student theater 1/2 school year (including usually being cast as a dancer), but no "sports". Keep in mind this was at a time when computers and smart phones were not so ubiquitous. I'm Gen X - I grew up with computers, but internet was slow and games were not addictive as they are now. I spent a lot of time outside as a kid. I read a lot (introvert), but also we would wander in the woods behind out house. We didn't do a lot of hiking as a family (that came later).

I was a competitive ballroom dancer in college, which meant practice for 2 hours 3x a week - all of that was not dancing though. We also sometimes went to social dances. We competed maybe 8-10 weekends a year - this was a LOT of dancing, but in short spurts. I didn't do sports other than this.

After college I had a lot of jobs that included heavy field work (carrying heavy backpacks, walking miles and miles, physical stuff). I also started doing swing, and at the height I did classes maybe 1-2 times a week, plus social dancing 2-3 times a week. This is also not constant, but I am sure a *lot* more activity than you "average" person.

I've had a 99% sedentary desk job for the past 11 years now. I have recently tapered off dancing to nearly nothing. However, I now have a garden that is a lot of work, and a yard with grass that has to be cut and weeds that have to be pulled. I sometimes joke that I don't understand why people go to the gym, since yard work is really a workout, lol. I also like to hike, but the frequency and amount is rather sporadic. I have a dog (2 years now) that I take for walks usually 2x per day, usually about 30 minutes each time; we only go local now, it's flat, but occasionally fast (she is old but still likes to run a bit; I can't hike with her now as she is too arthritic at this point). Sometimes we skip cold nights.

I *feel* very unfit (like, skinny fat), especially after these many years of the desk job and tapering dance off to almost nothing. I am considering starting pilates maybe for strength and flexability, which I used to have but don't anymore, as I get older. My diet and exercise level have NEVER changed how much I weigh - I might fluctuate a few pounds here and there, but I can't gain weight to save my life. It has only affected how I feel my FITNESS level to be. Even now, I don't *feel* like my activity level is very high, yet clearly it is higher than the majority of people. Oh, also, I pace a lot even when at home, I have a lot of nervous energy. Though minor I'm sure those burned calories add up.

(Also, ancillary data - my sister, the vegan, has a physically demanding job, she is a vet tech and regularly has to lift 50lb dogs. She also takes her dogs on walks and hikes and kayaking on weekends. I'm sure she would say she doesn't exercise (because she doesn't run or bike or go to a gym), yet she does a lot of physical things. So her lifestyle is a lot different than mine, but she (as far as I know) doesn't really regulate her diet aside from being vegan, and I know she doesn't really have a sweet tooth the way I do.)

I'm sure there are things that I've missed, but that's about it.

mm1970

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Re: Never been overweight? Tell us about your habits
« Reply #60 on: October 18, 2018, 05:04:34 PM »
It's interesting how many of my British friends have ballooned in size after moving to the US.  There is clearly something happening there, but I don't know what.

Do they eat in restaurants frequently? Portion sizes here are ridiculous.

Do they gain weight when they move other places?  I gain weight every time I move to a different country, whether it's a traditionally "thin" or "heavier" country.  I think stress spikes cortisol levels and makes you gain weight, and moving is stressful.   Plus getting used to another cuisine can take time, and you may default to more comforting bland foods.  I tend to.

This is people who've been in the US for a few years. Could be stress, bigger portions, fitting in with local norms, culture of driving rather than walking, maybe something happens to the gut flora, maybe it's corn syrup. I guess all it shows is that it's not solely down to genetics. Plenty of overweight people here, of course, but the odds seem much worse in the US, especially away from NY/LA type places.

I don't think there's any single factor or simple causes here. To pick an example, sugar gets a lot of bad press. My father grew up in a sweet shop (candy store.) My mother's parents ran a jam (jelly) factory. They're both thin. British people ate mountains of sugar back then compared to now. They had terrible teeth as a result, but there weren't many overweight people.

I don't think the advice of telling people to eat less/move more is really working. Probably more useful to find people who were overweight and now are not (and have kept their lower weight for many years.) If you look at those terrible "biggest loser" type shows, people have a horrible time and lose many pounds - but they almost always regain within a couple of years.

National Weight Control Registry.  I used to be a member.  Ironically (or not), they kicked me off.  Apparently I didn't lose the 2nd baby weight fast enough.  One year or you're out!

catccc

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Re: Never been overweight? Tell us about your habits
« Reply #61 on: October 18, 2018, 06:40:57 PM »
My problem with this thread is that people are not idiots.  People who struggle with weight are perfectly aware of the fact that weight is correlated with healthy eating, good sleep, physical activity, etc.  They are also probably very interested in not being overweight, given our society's obsession with body image and conventional attractiveness.   

The only thing NOW people can possibly add to the conversation is to say that maintaining our weight is, for whatever reason (I don't care much whether it's ascribed to luck, history, environment, genetics, personality, what have you), significantly easier for us.  I don't see how that can possibly be productive other than to neener-neener at people who are having a lot fucking harder time than we are.  I'm not a better person, or have more will power, or have a better work ethic than overweight people.  I'm just playing the game on easy mode, and some people have to play it on hard mode, and that's just a shitty thing about life that needs no rubbing in.

Yes.  This.  I responded earlier telling everyone about how I do things, but the fact is I was born in to easy mode.  (On this one.  As a female POC there are other challenges.)  But I guess weight wise I was born privileged.

CindyBS

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Re: Never been overweight? Tell us about your habits
« Reply #62 on: October 18, 2018, 08:12:59 PM »
Just curious, how many never overweight folks have ever had a conversation with a medical professional about obesity?
 
To me the idea that a never overweight person who is not medical professional or obesity specialist can give advice on this issue is as absurd as a person who has never had cancer can tell all the folks out there battling cancer what to do. 

Then instead of being supportive, throw in some comments about how it can't be genetics (citation from a peer reviewed journal article on that or just uneducated guess?), it is all your behavior, etc. with no formal training or personal experience in the subject.  All unsolicited advice of course, with a dab of righteousness thrown in.

Pick any other medical condition - cancer, diabetes, parkinson's disease and insert them in some of these posts instead of "overweight" or "obese" and it would be laughable.

Great point.  There's always going to be some people around who think being thin makes them superior to overweight people and want to tell them how simple it is, or how overweight people are somehow morally inferior, or whatever other offensive crap makes them feel good about themselves.

But that doesn't seem to be the OP's angle, which seems to stem more from naivete or some false assumptions.  And it looks like most of us who commented agree that describing/modeling our lifestyles is at best unhelpful, and at worst condescending, to the vast majority of overweight people because most of us 'got lucky' in terms of physiology, psychology, or whatever.

The reason I commented on this thread, despite my dislike of the original premise, was b/c I thought it might be helpful to the OP to rethink his assumptions about why people are or are not overweight.

I am (was, because I’m FIRE’d) actually a medical professional with extensive experience with obese patients.
It is actually very difficult to get people, who happen to be normal weight without effort, to tell what their behaviors are. That’s understandable because they simply do not have the focus on these issues. If you ask them how they keep their weight stable, they typically say things like “I’m just not putting on weight”, “I’m different and cannot possibly be helpful”, “I don’t exercise at all” (typically coming from a woman who just pushed the wheelchair of her obese husband all the way into the clinic). There are some examples in this thread. I’m pretty sure no never overweight people will respond in this thread anymore because they’ve been outed as just being lucky and anything they say would be considered condescending if not accompanied by an apology. So why bother.

The fact remains that as of today about 70% of Americans are overweight/obese and at least 30% have fatty liver detectable by noninvasive means (no biopsy, with biopsy, the rate might be substantially higher). But that leaves 30% normal weight individuals exposed to the same environment unaffected. Preemptively dismissing this still relatively large population as genetically gifted or weird is not really helpful in getting to the bottom of things. First of all, genetics do not explain anything unless there is an associated mechanism.

We know that the normal weight do not glow in the dark or are warmer to the touch than the overweight. There is, however, one small study showing that normal weight self identified couch potatoes move around more than 150 minutes per day more than overweight self identified couch potatoes even after those lost weight. It appears to be genetic and therefore cannot be called a habit. The subjects were not aware of this at all and one could not have found out by interviewing the subjects. Here you have an instance of a genetically determined different response to identical environmental conditions (opportunity of remaining immobile) which can only be overcome by by the genetically disadvantaged by habit formation or change of environment.

http://science.sciencemag.org/content/sci/307/5709/584.full.pdf

(Article is free after registration)

Studying the never overweight is severely neglected for the simple reason that they do not show up in the settimgs where obesity research is carried out - why would they? Right. However, this does not mean that there is nothing to be learned from them. After all, there is not other population to study from which one can learn about different responses to a hostile obesogenic environment and how to preserve non-consciously isocaloric food intake in that environment.

I have to go to the organic food coop meeting to pick up our monthly share and will continue later.

I agree with and appreciate your post.  I agree there is a role for learning from those who have never been overweight in a research setting conducted by a physician or scientist.  In the same way that cancer researchers can benefit from studying people who never get cancer.  Continuing the cancer analogy, as a physician, I think you would agree that there is not an oncologist out there who would suggest to patients that they take advice on how to treat cancer from a random person who has never had it on an internet board - especially people they have never met IRL. 

My son has cancer and I can't tell you how many people who think they knew what they were talking about offered their advice.  My favorite is when people thought that eating dark leafy greens and fresh vegetables were the way to go (because they eat a lot of veggies and haven't gotten cancer yet!!), despite the fact they can be deadly to a severely neutropenic patient - basically a person who has had a portion of their white cells killed by treatment and are extremely susceptible to infection.

Obese/overweight people should be getting advice from medical professionals, dieticians, etc.   There is way too much unsubstantiated information flying around the general population. 

CindyBS

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Re: Never been overweight? Tell us about your habits
« Reply #63 on: October 18, 2018, 08:21:49 PM »

To me the idea that a never overweight person who is not medical professional or obesity specialist can give advice on this issue is as absurd as a person who has never had cancer can tell all the folks out there battling cancer what to do. 

This is forum geared towards knowledge sharing, optimization, and DIY. The idea that only specialists can give advice is one of the weirdest things I've seen here in awhile. But yes, unsolicited advice is rarely welcome.

But this is not an issue like how to maximize credit card rewards, the best way to pay off a debt, or how to drywall.  This is a medical issue that can lead to serious medical complications like heart disease, diabetes, cancer, etc.  Medical issues should be treated by doctors, not random lay people who most likely have zero training in the subject and have never met the person IRL.

Imagine a thread where everyone who doesn't have type 1 diabetes tells people the routine they follow so that all the type 1 diabetics can learn from them on how to treat their condition.  Unsolicited, of course.   That would be considered odd and most likely insulting to the person with type 1 diabetes.  The advice given could make the diabetes worse, or even be deadly. 

MrsWolfeRN

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Re: Never been overweight? Tell us about your habits
« Reply #64 on: October 18, 2018, 08:50:57 PM »
I find this topic interesting and would like to continue to hear other people's stories. I did not find the OP offensive at all. Maybe the discussion about whether or not we should talk about it belongs in a different thread.

charis

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Re: Never been overweight? Tell us about your habits
« Reply #65 on: October 18, 2018, 09:56:20 PM »
No one is telling anyone to do anything. The OP ask for the habits of never over weight people. Presumably to glean some insight into how their habits might be different from obsese/overweight people. It's an interesting question and not remotely equivalent to telling people how to avoid cancer.

expatartist

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Re: Never been overweight? Tell us about your habits
« Reply #66 on: October 18, 2018, 11:12:39 PM »
This BBC series had some potential insights (popularized scientific studies included) as to why people gain weight http://www.bbc.co.uk/sn/humanbody/truthaboutfood/slim/

Scenarios included a pair of friends who believe they eat identically but one is shown to consume significantly more calories. Another demonstrating how important fluids are to the stomach triggering the brain that it's full (advised to consume broth or water during the meal). IIRC scientific studies as the basis for these. It was reasonably well done.

FLBiker

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Re: Never been overweight? Tell us about your habits
« Reply #67 on: October 19, 2018, 07:27:47 AM »
I have to assume it's largely genetic.  I'm 6'1", and weigh 185.  I used to be very unhealthy in terms of lifestyle (6-12 drinks per day, most days of the week, lots of fried / meaty food, very little exercise).  I might have weighed 5 or 10 pounds more.  Now I'm vegetarian, haven't had a drink in 12 years, exercise several times a week.  I've commented to my wife how my body just seems to be what it is -- diet and exercise make subtle differences in how I look.  It's good, I suppose, in the sense that I never really think about my weight.  Along the same lines, though, I've never had a six-pack, and I feel like I'd have to work harder than some to get it.  Fortunately, I don't care. :)

Once, when I first got sober, I was down to like 155 pounds.  I was vegan, very depressed, skipping meals, not sleeping.  (Just to be clear, the depressed / skipping meals / not sleeping was not connected with being vegan.)  I looked terrible -- when I see pics from that time, I look haunted.

Other than that, I've pretty much always looked the same.  That being said, I certainly FEEL differently when I eat well and exercise.  Eating well and exercising helps both my mood and my general feeling of health.  When I reflect on how I used to live, it feels like another person.

wenchsenior

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Re: Never been overweight? Tell us about your habits
« Reply #68 on: October 19, 2018, 08:56:18 AM »
I'd be really curious to now hear from overweight people who might have read this thread.  There have been a decent number of responses so far.  Does anything in the reports from NOW people surprise you?  Is anything about this thread really helpful to you?  I've been assuming all along it would not be helpful, and might be actively offensive, but maybe I'm wrong.

MrSal

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Re: Never been overweight? Tell us about your habits
« Reply #69 on: October 19, 2018, 09:00:49 AM »
Just curious, how many never overweight folks have ever had a conversation with a medical professional about obesity?
 
To me the idea that a never overweight person who is not medical professional or obesity specialist can give advice on this issue is as absurd as a person who has never had cancer can tell all the folks out there battling cancer what to do. 

Then instead of being supportive, throw in some comments about how it can't be genetics (citation from a peer reviewed journal article on that or just uneducated guess?), it is all your behavior, etc. with no formal training or personal experience in the subject.  All unsolicited advice of course, with a dab of righteousness thrown in.

Pick any other medical condition - cancer, diabetes, parkinson's disease and insert them in some of these posts instead of "overweight" or "obese" and it would be laughable.

Well, if you are into physical activity, you know a thing or two about how your body works.

I see a lot of people either thin or fat saying "oh its genetics" "Oh I can't gain weight because of genetics... my metabolism is too fast" or "I cant lose weight because of genetics my metabolism is too slow"

While genetics have a role on your metabolism, 99+% of cases it doesn't have much of a role... at least to the extent of what most people atributte it to. The difference in genetics for your basal metabolism might be a difference of 5% or so in your BMR.

While my BMR might be 1700 calories, someone with "better" genetics might have it in 1800 calories... considering everything else is equal. Thats probably a difference of 1 french fry.

I would say most of problems regarding obesity is due to mental/habit behaviour and bad dieting. It goes for the same if you have a hard time gaining weight.

Many times I have heard "I eat a lot ... I can't gain weight no matter what" ... and in most cases, this person that eats a lot, calory wise they probably aren't eating that much on a CONSISTENT basis. Especially if this person has a clean diet for the most part - rice, potatoes, fish, meat, etc... it's surprisingly hard to eat a lot of calories if you eat rather "clean".

Example ... 2 lbs of chicken breast only has around 700 calories total (mostly protein which means that also adds a thermogenic effect in decomposing those aminoacid chains).

1 lb of cooked rice is about 500 calories. The same for pasta. Potatoes about 390 calories per lb ...

Vegetables .. pretty much zero calories since they barely have calories in a practical sense and most of calories come from fiber which aren't absorbed for most part.

Now, if you have a normal american diet, with some processed foods, chips, pizza, burguers etc... bacon... soda... Go to any highschool and you see what most people eat. Any outdoor event and/or concerts and you see what most people eat - while i am not saying those foods are your daily standard you can tell a lot from them. But from my now 3 years of living in the US, I see a very strong contrast to what I was used back at my home country.

Sodas alone and or beverages are very easy to gain weight with... heck! I gained a lot of weight myself just by drinking Tropicana Orange Juice - it added a lot of calories to my intake since I was drinking it like I was drinking water.

All this to say, that in majority of cases, it is all about the type of diet and/or size portion that you are consuming on a consistent basis. If it's higher than your level activity consistently then yes you will become overweight ... it's not a matter of genetics. It's a matter of calories and lack of activity. You might even be active but if you are intaking more calories of course it;s a moot point. You can't outrun a bad diet.

Most men should be consuming around 2000 calories or so if you have a sedentary life. I would bet that a lot of overweight people are certainly intaking more than these calories.

I myself have a "tendency" to gain weight. My brother on the other hand is the opposite. Biggest differences in us is... I have a sweet tooth... my brother does not. He is super active, I am not. I do go to the gym and lift weights but not enough to allow to erase my "sweet tooth" adventures.

I have been in both sides of spectrum. I have had a six pack, but also was a bit overweight (for european standards my weight is considered overweight already) at 209 as my max at 20% BF, I'm 6'0. Heck, in my infancy I was always a bit chubby kid, only on my teens when I got interested in sports and sports literature and physical activity I changed. Currently I am 175 lbs and lost these 35 lbs in about 3-4 months because I acknowledged that my intake was off track.

I perfectly understand the spiral effect of sugary/fatty foods ... how one leads to another and then another. Sugar is like a drug. And when I saw I have a sweet tooth I am not kidding. I can eat a condensed milk can in 1 sitting :D ask me how I know. Or a package of butter cookies just like that - cookies are my kryptonite.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2018, 09:08:59 AM by MrSal »

use2betrix

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Re: Never been overweight? Tell us about your habits
« Reply #70 on: October 19, 2018, 09:03:13 AM »

To me the idea that a never overweight person who is not medical professional or obesity specialist can give advice on this issue is as absurd as a person who has never had cancer can tell all the folks out there battling cancer what to do. 

This is forum geared towards knowledge sharing, optimization, and DIY. The idea that only specialists can give advice is one of the weirdest things I've seen here in awhile. But yes, unsolicited advice is rarely welcome.

But this is not an issue like how to maximize credit card rewards, the best way to pay off a debt, or how to drywall.  This is a medical issue that can lead to serious medical complications like heart disease, diabetes, cancer, etc.  Medical issues should be treated by doctors, not random lay people who most likely have zero training in the subject and have never met the person IRL.

Imagine a thread where everyone who doesn't have type 1 diabetes tells people the routine they follow so that all the type 1 diabetics can learn from them on how to treat their condition.  Unsolicited, of course.   That would be considered odd and most likely insulting to the person with type 1 diabetes.  The advice given could make the diabetes worse, or even be deadly.

It’s a “medical issue,” in very, very different ways for people who are obese. Some people it is 100% psychological issues, others it is actual physical issues which cause their obesity.

The problem with posts like yours, is that you relate it so much to a disease that obese people use the “disease” topic to enable them to escape responsibility from it. Basically what you are doing with your post.

I know countless people, myself included, who could EASILY become obese. I LOVE ice cream and pizza. I could easily put down 1000 calories of pizza and 1000 calories of ice cream for dinner, every single night. I could quit weight lifting 3 days a week and running 10-12 miles a week. Instead of struggling through intermittent fasting, I could eat a massive breakfast and lunch every day. I eat around 2000-3000 calories a day, I could easily eat 4000-5000. I’d love the shit out of doing it to, because I wouldn’t need self control.

Instead, I make sacrifices and use my willpower to exercise self control. If I didn’t, and just let myself go, it would be a self control and (to me) a laziness reason for my obesity.

Then we have posts like yours, basically these blanket statements that every obese person has some grave medical condition causing it. Heaven forbid the fix for some (or even most) is simply “eat less shit and exercise more.” I am in insanely good shape. I literally have strangers in public approach me about weightlifting and diets. Happened walking into a restaurant just last week, some stranger stopped me. I’m muscular, super low body fat, abs, veins on veins, and I work my ass off for it.

It’s honestly a bit pathetic and rather insulting to make it sound like every non-obese person just has it “so easily” like it’s not some struggle. Talk about taking away from peoples effort. It’s funny because that’s how a lot of obese people do think (I’ve heard it first hand) the “oh thin people have it so easy” comments, as you sit and watch them gobble down on fast food every day in the break room at lunch.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2018, 09:07:20 AM by use2betrix »

MrSal

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Re: Never been overweight? Tell us about your habits
« Reply #71 on: October 19, 2018, 09:29:16 AM »
I understand the limitations of self-reporting. That said, here's my self-report:

When I was 21 I weighed 125lbs (5'6"). My diet wasn't great, but neither was it awful. No soda, but often sweet tea. I ate college cafe food, which was often chicken wings, pizza, burgers, etc. It was pretty typical that I'd forget to eat for a while, and would only realize it was time to feed myself when I got irritable and started trembling.

Around age 22 I switched to a strictly vegan diet which was heavy in whole foods - lots of beans, rice, leafy greens, cruciferous vegetables. I still forget to eat pretty often until I feel the physical effects of it, but I believe the overall bulk of food I eat increased. Over the following ~12 months I lost around 10lbs, and have remained this weight (~116, give or take 2lbs) for the last 8 years.

You lost weight mostly because even though you were eating more in terms of volume - those foods weren't as dense calory wise!

Beans, rice, pasta, etc... while they have calories, they don't compare to burguers and such things. again 2lbs of potatoes is 700 calories. A burger at McDonalds, like a Big Mac has 800 calories. If you account the normal standard big mac menu with some coke and french fries, then make it 1600 calories for the meal.


To me the idea that a never overweight person who is not medical professional or obesity specialist can give advice on this issue is as absurd as a person who has never had cancer can tell all the folks out there battling cancer what to do. 

This is forum geared towards knowledge sharing, optimization, and DIY. The idea that only specialists can give advice is one of the weirdest things I've seen here in awhile. But yes, unsolicited advice is rarely welcome.

But this is not an issue like how to maximize credit card rewards, the best way to pay off a debt, or how to drywall.  This is a medical issue that can lead to serious medical complications like heart disease, diabetes, cancer, etc.  Medical issues should be treated by doctors, not random lay people who most likely have zero training in the subject and have never met the person IRL.

Imagine a thread where everyone who doesn't have type 1 diabetes tells people the routine they follow so that all the type 1 diabetics can learn from them on how to treat their condition.  Unsolicited, of course.   That would be considered odd and most likely insulting to the person with type 1 diabetes.  The advice given could make the diabetes worse, or even be deadly.
It’s honestly a bit pathetic and rather insulting to make it sound like every non-obese person just has it “so easily” like it’s not some struggle. Talk about taking away from peoples effort. It’s funny because that’s how a lot of obese people do think (I’ve heard it first hand) the “oh thin people have it so easy” comments, as you sit and watch them gobble down on fast food every day in the break room at lunch.

This last bit of your quote... is exactly the difference for example between my brother and I. While we do have different body types ( he is very lean, long arms, the typical "good genetics, can't gain weight", while I am more bulky, wider frame, wider waist) I do know that his phyisical form - lean, veins, six pack abs... comes from his activity. I wouldn't say that he sacrifices and works his butt off, because it's what he enjoys - he lifts weights, but also likes to practice boxing, and also plays soccer in a amateur league 2x week - that is a lot of activity.

Myself? Probably hit the gym for 3x lifting weights and thats it.

Sailor Sam

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Re: Never been overweight? Tell us about your habits
« Reply #72 on: October 19, 2018, 09:32:35 AM »
I'd be really curious to now hear from overweight people who might have read this thread.  There have been a decent number of responses so far.

I'm fat. I've been fatter, and I've been thinner, but right now I'm exactly the weight I even out to when just cruising along.

Does anything in the reports from NOW people surprise you?
Nope. NOW people tend to, but don't all and don't always eat low on the scale of processed food types. NOW people have a higher level of non-activity exercise thermogenesis than I do, the little fidgeters. NOW people have better non-conscious food regulation than I do. Or perhaps their internal sense of enough food is tuned towards trim, and mine is tuned towards overweight. I do tend to remain a steady weight unless actively intervening. That weight just happens to be overweight on the charts. 

Is anything about this thread really helpful to you?
Also nope. As some have pointed out, it's not like fat people are magically unaware they're fat. Or that they don't simply want to be thin. This thread is the equivalent of a smug MMM-ite telling a debtor that the way to sweet freedom is to simply cease desiring things. "I buy everything that I want, man. It's just that I don't want much," vs "I eat exactly what I want, man. It's just that I don't eat when I'm not hungry." Unequivocally true, and about as useful as a wet fart.

I've been assuming all along it would not be helpful, and might be actively offensive, but maybe I'm wrong.
Eh, I mean, I'm pretty used to society telling me I'm worthless and a waste of human space. Short, fat, female, (almost) forty. I've got some intersectionality goin' ON brah! This thread is occasionally eye-rolling, but hasn't breasted the rage levee yet. Just keep it out of the weight loss support threads. I know it's hard. I myself enjoy a good self-congratulatory MMM circle jerk, but do keep my pants zipped when in other spaces.

edit: fix quotes
« Last Edit: October 19, 2018, 10:10:17 AM by Sailor Sam »

brute

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Re: Never been overweight? Tell us about your habits
« Reply #73 on: October 19, 2018, 09:45:21 AM »
I thought about typing out an in depth reply, but I don't feel like being shit on. Keep weight off is hard once you've had it on. Even for a competitive strength athlete, it sucks. I can pull a fire truck, lift a 400 pound stone onto a 55 inch platform, lift 800 pounds from the ground on zero sleep and a bad hangover. But after a shitty day, I want comfort food, and I want it in a way that ruins my night if I don't get it. Don't tell me I have a self-discipline problem. If that was all there is to it, I wouldn't be a national class strongman. Food is different, and we need to look at the physical and psychological causes of food addictions if we want to make any real progress.


PeteD01

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Re: Never been overweight? Tell us about your habits
« Reply #74 on: October 19, 2018, 11:04:35 AM »

To me the idea that a never overweight person who is not medical professional or obesity specialist can give advice on this issue is as absurd as a person who has never had cancer can tell all the folks out there battling cancer what to do. 

This is forum geared towards knowledge sharing, optimization, and DIY. The idea that only specialists can give advice is one of the weirdest things I've seen here in awhile. But yes, unsolicited advice is rarely welcome.

But this is not an issue like how to maximize credit card rewards, the best way to pay off a debt, or how to drywall.  This is a medical issue that can lead to serious medical complications like heart disease, diabetes, cancer, etc.  Medical issues should be treated by doctors, not random lay people who most likely have zero training in the subject and have never met the person IRL.

Imagine a thread where everyone who doesn't have type 1 diabetes tells people the routine they follow so that all the type 1 diabetics can learn from them on how to treat their condition.  Unsolicited, of course.   That would be considered odd and most likely insulting to the person with type 1 diabetes.  The advice given could make the diabetes worse, or even be deadly.

It’s a “medical issue,” in very, very different ways for people who are obese. Some people it is 100% psychological issues, others it is actual physical issues which cause their obesity.

The problem with posts like yours, is that you relate it so much to a disease that obese people use the “disease” topic to enable them to escape responsibility from it. Basically what you are doing with your post.

I know countless people, myself included, who could EASILY become obese. I LOVE ice cream and pizza. I could easily put down 1000 calories of pizza and 1000 calories of ice cream for dinner, every single night. I could quit weight lifting 3 days a week and running 10-12 miles a week. Instead of struggling through intermittent fasting, I could eat a massive breakfast and lunch every day. I eat around 2000-3000 calories a day, I could easily eat 4000-5000. I’d love the shit out of doing it to, because I wouldn’t need self control.

Instead, I make sacrifices and use my willpower to exercise self control. If I didn’t, and just let myself go, it would be a self control and (to me) a laziness reason for my obesity.

Then we have posts like yours, basically these blanket statements that every obese person has some grave medical condition causing it. Heaven forbid the fix for some (or even most) is simply “eat less shit and exercise more.” I am in insanely good shape. I literally have strangers in public approach me about weightlifting and diets. Happened walking into a restaurant just last week, some stranger stopped me. I’m muscular, super low body fat, abs, veins on veins, and I work my ass off for it.

It’s honestly a bit pathetic and rather insulting to make it sound like every non-obese person just has it “so easily” like it’s not some struggle. Talk about taking away from peoples effort. It’s funny because that’s how a lot of obese people do think (I’ve heard it first hand) the “oh thin people have it so easy” comments, as you sit and watch them gobble down on fast food every day in the break room at lunch.

Well, that many never overweight people have it easy is not entirely wrong. We got quite a few examples of people who remain normal weight without counting calories or following any particular diet strategy and not eating much processed food (typically without making a big deal out of something that is a really big deal for a large part of the population), not being physically active (or not being aware of how active they really are). Then there is the study of normal weight self identified couch potatoes who moved a whopping 2.5 hours more per day (without being aware of it), than the obese self identified couch potatoes.

All this points toward a population which does seem to “have it easy” compared to the enormous efforts overweight dieters expend on weight loss strategies with abysmally low long term chances of success.

There are people among the never overweight who preserved their internal food intake regulation (hence they are “having it easy”) in an environment that that is clearly obesogenic for the majority.
The US is the ideal place to look for these somewhat immune people because cultural constraints on feeding behavior have been removed (Breakfast food all day long, adults eating candy, ice cream and cookies all day and all night, extremely large beverage containers and restaurant portions and so on).

One more word about genetics. We are talking about an aspect of  phenotype (body weight) which results from genetic and epigenetic factors in interaction with the environment. This interaction is likely behavioral (behavioral in the broad sense: cognitive, volitional, non-volitional, response to emotion) in nature in this context.
Looking for behaviors, in particular non-volitional behaviors, in people maintaining stable body weight with little apparent effort, might provide information regarding recommendable behaviors which could be introduced via habit formation in the genetically or culturally not so lucky population, with the ultimate goal of preservation or even restoration of internal food intake regulation.










mm1970

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Re: Never been overweight? Tell us about your habits
« Reply #75 on: October 19, 2018, 11:17:26 AM »
Quote
Eh, I mean, I'm pretty used to society telling me I'm worthless and a waste of human space. Short, fat, female, (almost) forty. I've got some intersectionality goin' ON brah! This thread is occasionally eye-rolling, but hasn't breasted the rage levee yet. Just keep it out of the weight loss support threads. I know it's hard. I myself enjoy a good self-congratulatory MMM circle jerk, but do keep my pants zipped when in other spaces.

Wait till you are  almost 50 and then practically invisible! With gray hair, wrinkles, and pimples - whee!

The psychological difference between NOW, FOW and fat people fascinates me.

I used to be fat.  Technically obese, BMI over 30.  I mean, it was what it was.  I exercised regularly.  Ate healthy food (just too much of it, and I didn't quite realize it at the time).  I was eating like my 6' tall husband - who is naturally slender.  And I am not.

I lost 57 lbs and what happened is what you see a lot.  I became like a cheerleader, almost evangelical.  I've seen it in others in the last 15 years too.  I mean, I went from "I'm just fat and I can't do anything about it" to "you can DO IT.  If I can do it ANYBODY can do it!" 

Of course I'm older and wiser now.  I was able to do it in my early 30s while being incredibly active.  And I had no kids.  My friends who were losing weight at the same time were all 50-70 years old.  So it didn't work as well for them.  Even the active ones, much slower process.

So sometimes I feel like a lot of "NOW" people - they just have never been through it, so they don't understand.  For some of them, it's just easy.  They aren't able to step out of their own experience.  Many of my in-laws were trim and fit until age X (30, 40, 60).  And until age X, they could just "exercise more" and lose weight.  Well, we've all heard that you can't exercise your way out of a bad diet.  I think that for many who gain weight, the age at which it hits is different.  For my FIL?  60.  For me?  24.  After that age I basically had no wiggle room to keep a healthy weight.  The Navy switched to a height/weight chart at some point in here and it was always a struggle for me to diet down to the max weight.

Quote
I see a lot of people either thin or fat saying "oh its genetics" "Oh I can't gain weight because of genetics... my metabolism is too fast" or "I cant lose weight because of genetics my metabolism is too slow"

I think that the area of science is still pretty young, and you cannot discount genetics.  Whether it be running, or lifting or weight loss.  There's CLEARLY a genetic component when you have 2 people who do the same work and have different outcomes.  It takes a LOT longer for some people to get faster, or get thinner.  Plus, as I said many times before - simply by having been overweight, you have changed your body and how it reacts to some foods.  Permanently.  Until you've been there, you probably won't understand.

And then things change too - what worked when I was 31 did not work when I was 37 and trying to lose baby weight #1.  That didn't work when I was trying to lose a few pounds at 41, and that didn't work when I was trying to lose the "I had a baby at 42" weight when I was 44.  I have a small pile of pants and leggings in the closet that are falling off me right now.  Why?  Because menopause is coming, and I've seen what it does.  What has changed over these years?  Mostly I've gotten older.  My activity level hasn't changed much at all (I work out regularly). 

I think that it's people who have SEEN their own bodies change over time who are more likely to be sympathetic to others who are overweight.  Because sometimes: you do everything right and you are still overweight.  Honestly, if you are sleeping, getting regular exercise, and eating a healthy diet of about 2000 cals a day (give or take a couple of hundred) - then what else can you do?  But in this society, it's INCREDIBLY hard to accept yourself for who you are, because we tell people they aren't good enough.  Be the change you want to see in the world.  When I'm out and about running along the beach, and I see overweight people (because most people are), I smile and say hi and think "another exercise junkie!"  Because they are out there walking, biking, jogging, playing vball. 

When I lost 57 lbs I put a ton of work into it.  My husband just stopped eating seconds and lost 20 pounds.  That's genetics.

okits

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Re: Never been overweight? Tell us about your habits
« Reply #76 on: October 19, 2018, 11:50:31 AM »
I'd be really curious to now hear from overweight people who might have read this thread.  There have been a decent number of responses so far.  Does anything in the reports from NOW people surprise you?  Is anything about this thread really helpful to you?  I've been assuming all along it would not be helpful, and might be actively offensive, but maybe I'm wrong.

@wenchsenior - I was surprised at the number of NOW people who didn't say or insinuate that being overweight is simply the result of moral inferiority and lack of discipline.  I am used to the assumption that I am dumb and lazy.  Actively offensive, but also the status quo.

As far as any surprises in the habits reported by NOW people?  None.

MrSal

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Re: Never been overweight? Tell us about your habits
« Reply #77 on: October 19, 2018, 12:05:27 PM »
Quote
Eh, I mean, I'm pretty used to society telling me I'm worthless and a waste of human space. Short, fat, female, (almost) forty. I've got some intersectionality goin' ON brah! This thread is occasionally eye-rolling, but hasn't breasted the rage levee yet. Just keep it out of the weight loss support threads. I know it's hard. I myself enjoy a good self-congratulatory MMM circle jerk, but do keep my pants zipped when in other spaces.

Wait till you are  almost 50 and then practically invisible! With gray hair, wrinkles, and pimples - whee!

The psychological difference between NOW, FOW and fat people fascinates me.

I used to be fat.  Technically obese, BMI over 30.  I mean, it was what it was.  I exercised regularly.  Ate healthy food (just too much of it, and I didn't quite realize it at the time).  I was eating like my 6' tall husband - who is naturally slender.  And I am not.

I lost 57 lbs and what happened is what you see a lot.  I became like a cheerleader, almost evangelical.  I've seen it in others in the last 15 years too.  I mean, I went from "I'm just fat and I can't do anything about it" to "you can DO IT.  If I can do it ANYBODY can do it!" 

Of course I'm older and wiser now.  I was able to do it in my early 30s while being incredibly active.  And I had no kids.  My friends who were losing weight at the same time were all 50-70 years old.  So it didn't work as well for them.  Even the active ones, much slower process.

So sometimes I feel like a lot of "NOW" people - they just have never been through it, so they don't understand.  For some of them, it's just easy.  They aren't able to step out of their own experience.  Many of my in-laws were trim and fit until age X (30, 40, 60).  And until age X, they could just "exercise more" and lose weight.  Well, we've all heard that you can't exercise your way out of a bad diet.  I think that for many who gain weight, the age at which it hits is different.  For my FIL?  60.  For me?  24.  After that age I basically had no wiggle room to keep a healthy weight.  The Navy switched to a height/weight chart at some point in here and it was always a struggle for me to diet down to the max weight.

Quote
I see a lot of people either thin or fat saying "oh its genetics" "Oh I can't gain weight because of genetics... my metabolism is too fast" or "I cant lose weight because of genetics my metabolism is too slow"

I think that the area of science is still pretty young, and you cannot discount genetics.  Whether it be running, or lifting or weight loss.  There's CLEARLY a genetic component when you have 2 people who do the same work and have different outcomes.  It takes a LOT longer for some people to get faster, or get thinner.  Plus, as I said many times before - simply by having been overweight, you have changed your body and how it reacts to some foods.  Permanently.  Until you've been there, you probably won't understand.

And then things change too - what worked when I was 31 did not work when I was 37 and trying to lose baby weight #1.  That didn't work when I was trying to lose a few pounds at 41, and that didn't work when I was trying to lose the "I had a baby at 42" weight when I was 44.  I have a small pile of pants and leggings in the closet that are falling off me right now.  Why?  Because menopause is coming, and I've seen what it does.  What has changed over these years?  Mostly I've gotten older.  My activity level hasn't changed much at all (I work out regularly). 

I think that it's people who have SEEN their own bodies change over time who are more likely to be sympathetic to others who are overweight.  Because sometimes: you do everything right and you are still overweight.  Honestly, if you are sleeping, getting regular exercise, and eating a healthy diet of about 2000 cals a day (give or take a couple of hundred) - then what else can you do?  But in this society, it's INCREDIBLY hard to accept yourself for who you are, because we tell people they aren't good enough.  Be the change you want to see in the world.  When I'm out and about running along the beach, and I see overweight people (because most people are), I smile and say hi and think "another exercise junkie!"  Because they are out there walking, biking, jogging, playing vball. 

When I lost 57 lbs I put a ton of work into it.  My husband just stopped eating seconds and lost 20 pounds.  That's genetics.

Women genetically have more body fat than men. That is a fact. I agree that menopause might shuffle things around but only in my opinion on a composition level and not weight level - energy aka calories does not appear from thin air. What I think happens is mostly unawareness of all the calories consumed even when you think you are doing all the things right... be it through behaviour actions, unawaraness and so on - like the couch potato guys that after all weren't so couch potato.

Also with age, your calorie intake decreases. Your BMR at 30 years old vs 43 years old is very very different! 2000 calories for a mid 40's women is actually quite a lot: the maintenace calories of a 45 year old woman weighing 55 kilos and 165 cm tall that has a sedentary life but works out 2x week on light exercise (elliptical or stationary bike) is about 1250/1300 calories.

A man has less BF and more muscle and is also usually taller and more weight, therefore the calorie needs between man vs woman are different if everything else is equal.

use2betrix

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Re: Never been overweight? Tell us about your habits
« Reply #78 on: October 19, 2018, 12:06:44 PM »
I'd be really curious to now hear from overweight people who might have read this thread.  There have been a decent number of responses so far.  Does anything in the reports from NOW people surprise you?  Is anything about this thread really helpful to you?  I've been assuming all along it would not be helpful, and might be actively offensive, but maybe I'm wrong.

@wenchsenior - I was surprised at the number of NOW people who didn't say or insinuate that being overweight is simply the result of moral inferiority and lack of discipline.  I am used to the assumption that I am dumb and lazy.  Actively offensive, but also the status quo.

As far as any surprises in the habits reported by NOW people?  None.

What is interesting is during the few shorter periods of my life where I was overweight it was 100% due to my moral inferiority and disgusting lack of self control/discipline. It was the result of my own, lazy actions.

I do, and have held myself accountable for it, and can identify that I do find my diet to be a constant challenge, although one I can usually manage.

It appears that my accountability and personal views are not widespread.

wenchsenior

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Re: Never been overweight? Tell us about your habits
« Reply #79 on: October 19, 2018, 12:10:20 PM »
I'd be really curious to now hear from overweight people who might have read this thread.  There have been a decent number of responses so far.  Does anything in the reports from NOW people surprise you?  Is anything about this thread really helpful to you?  I've been assuming all along it would not be helpful, and might be actively offensive, but maybe I'm wrong.

@wenchsenior - I was surprised at the number of NOW people who didn't say or insinuate that being overweight is simply the result of moral inferiority and lack of discipline.  I am used to the assumption that I am dumb and lazy.  Actively offensive, but also the status quo.

As far as any surprises in the habits reported by NOW people?  None.

Yes, I was pleasantly surprised as well, b/c that assumption fills me with rage.  And only one poster so far (I think) could be read as insinuating that.  Sailor Sam's response was more or less what I expected, as well.

I would never consider posting in one of the weight loss threads in Throw Down the Gauntlet, but I'm thinking that people who are NOW might also do better to just butt out of nearly all future threads relating to weight loss (unless they specifically ask for input from the NOW crowd) b/c the most useful advice is usually going to come from other people who have been overweight and lost weight, rather than people like me.  And people like me, even if we are actively offended at the idea that it just takes 'willpower' to lose weight and all that fat-shaming bs, might still be inadvertently hurtful to participants in those types of threads.

I was very uneasy about this thread at first, but it has given me some fine distinctions to think about.




Roots&Wings

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Re: Never been overweight? Tell us about your habits
« Reply #80 on: October 19, 2018, 12:48:16 PM »
The lazy/lack of willpower angle is very unhelpful. At the same time, doctor's can't make people change, and they can find it fairly frustrating too.

It's heartbreaking to watch someone you love engage in self-destructive behavior, whether it's obesity, eating disorders, addiction, financial ruin, whatever. Many people need ongoing support, coaching, etc to figure out the specific habits and routines that will work for them.

My obese dad was just told by his doctor that he needs to eat less and exercise. He knows this. Will he do it? Maybe. I certainly hope so.

Habits/Routines that have been helpful for me:
- Tracking food for a month (via myfitnesspal and Vanderbilt University's free Coursera class - Nutrition, Health, and Lifestyle: Issues and Insights)
- Eating mostly whole-food plant based diet (once I hit 30, my weight, blood pressure and cholesterol all started climbing, Eat to Live especially helped; seeing older family members have horrific health issues from lifestyle diseases)
- Eating light meal in evening, eat same thing for breakfast (nuts, oatmeal, superfood smoothie), big lunch (e.g. beans, rice, avocado, salsa, lentil stew, green beans, veggie burger, etc), mid-morning snack (e.g. fruit, celery and pb), no caffeine after 2 pm
- Having a dog for mandatory daily walks (am and pm)
- Simple exercise routine (morning stretches upon waking, and do parts of the 7-minute workout and 4-minute workout at mid-morning)
- Gardening/doing yard work

Figuring out people's motivations and changing habits is very interesting.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2018, 12:50:48 PM by Roots&Wings »

okits

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Re: Never been overweight? Tell us about your habits
« Reply #81 on: October 19, 2018, 12:59:13 PM »
I'd be really curious to now hear from overweight people who might have read this thread.  There have been a decent number of responses so far.  Does anything in the reports from NOW people surprise you?  Is anything about this thread really helpful to you?  I've been assuming all along it would not be helpful, and might be actively offensive, but maybe I'm wrong.

@wenchsenior - I was surprised at the number of NOW people who didn't say or insinuate that being overweight is simply the result of moral inferiority and lack of discipline.  I am used to the assumption that I am dumb and lazy.  Actively offensive, but also the status quo.

As far as any surprises in the habits reported by NOW people?  None.

What is interesting is during the few shorter periods of my life where I was overweight it was 100% due to my moral inferiority and disgusting lack of self control/discipline. It was the result of my own, lazy actions.

I do, and have held myself accountable for it, and can identify that I do find my diet to be a constant challenge, although one I can usually manage.

It appears that my accountability and personal views are not widespread.

Thank goodness the first response to my comment is from someone explaining that their shorter periods of personal experience with being overweight were due to moral inferiority and disgusting lack of self control/discipline.  @use2betrix , you can rest assured that North American society generally shares your personal views that the problem is that overweight people just do not have enough accountability. 

Sailor Sam

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Re: Never been overweight? Tell us about your habits
« Reply #82 on: October 19, 2018, 01:09:28 PM »
Quote
Eh, I mean, I'm pretty used to society telling me I'm worthless and a waste of human space. Short, fat, female, (almost) forty. I've got some intersectionality goin' ON brah! This thread is occasionally eye-rolling, but hasn't breasted the rage levee yet. Just keep it out of the weight loss support threads. I know it's hard. I myself enjoy a good self-congratulatory MMM circle jerk, but do keep my pants zipped when in other spaces.

Wait till you are  almost 50 and then practically invisible! With gray hair, wrinkles, and pimples - whee!

The psychological difference between NOW, FOW and fat people fascinates me.

I used to be fat.  Technically obese, BMI over 30.  I mean, it was what it was.  I exercised regularly.  Ate healthy food (just too much of it, and I didn't quite realize it at the time).  I was eating like my 6' tall husband - who is naturally slender.  And I am not.

I lost 57 lbs and what happened is what you see a lot.  I became like a cheerleader, almost evangelical.  I've seen it in others in the last 15 years too.  I mean, I went from "I'm just fat and I can't do anything about it" to "you can DO IT.  If I can do it ANYBODY can do it!" 

Of course I'm older and wiser now.  I was able to do it in my early 30s while being incredibly active.  And I had no kids.  My friends who were losing weight at the same time were all 50-70 years old.  So it didn't work as well for them.  Even the active ones, much slower process.

So sometimes I feel like a lot of "NOW" people - they just have never been through it, so they don't understand.  For some of them, it's just easy.  They aren't able to step out of their own experience.  Many of my in-laws were trim and fit until age X (30, 40, 60).  And until age X, they could just "exercise more" and lose weight.  Well, we've all heard that you can't exercise your way out of a bad diet.  I think that for many who gain weight, the age at which it hits is different.  For my FIL?  60.  For me?  24.  After that age I basically had no wiggle room to keep a healthy weight.  The Navy switched to a height/weight chart at some point in here and it was always a struggle for me to diet down to the max weight.

Quote
I see a lot of people either thin or fat saying "oh its genetics" "Oh I can't gain weight because of genetics... my metabolism is too fast" or "I cant lose weight because of genetics my metabolism is too slow"

I think that the area of science is still pretty young, and you cannot discount genetics.  Whether it be running, or lifting or weight loss.  There's CLEARLY a genetic component when you have 2 people who do the same work and have different outcomes.  It takes a LOT longer for some people to get faster, or get thinner.  Plus, as I said many times before - simply by having been overweight, you have changed your body and how it reacts to some foods.  Permanently.  Until you've been there, you probably won't understand.

And then things change too - what worked when I was 31 did not work when I was 37 and trying to lose baby weight #1.  That didn't work when I was trying to lose a few pounds at 41, and that didn't work when I was trying to lose the "I had a baby at 42" weight when I was 44.  I have a small pile of pants and leggings in the closet that are falling off me right now.  Why?  Because menopause is coming, and I've seen what it does.  What has changed over these years?  Mostly I've gotten older.  My activity level hasn't changed much at all (I work out regularly). 

I think that it's people who have SEEN their own bodies change over time who are more likely to be sympathetic to others who are overweight.  Because sometimes: you do everything right and you are still overweight.  Honestly, if you are sleeping, getting regular exercise, and eating a healthy diet of about 2000 cals a day (give or take a couple of hundred) - then what else can you do?  But in this society, it's INCREDIBLY hard to accept yourself for who you are, because we tell people they aren't good enough.  Be the change you want to see in the world.  When I'm out and about running along the beach, and I see overweight people (because most people are), I smile and say hi and think "another exercise junkie!"  Because they are out there walking, biking, jogging, playing vball. 

When I lost 57 lbs I put a ton of work into it.  My husband just stopped eating seconds and lost 20 pounds.  That's genetics.

Women genetically have more body fat than men. That is a fact. I agree that menopause might shuffle things around but only in my opinion on a composition level and not weight level - energy aka calories does not appear from thin air. What I think happens is mostly unawareness of all the calories consumed even when you think you are doing all the things right... be it through behaviour actions, unawaraness and so on - like the couch potato guys that after all weren't so couch potato.

Also with age, your calorie intake decreases. Your BMR at 30 years old vs 43 years old is very very different! 2000 calories for a mid 40's women is actually quite a lot: the maintenace calories of a 45 year old woman weighing 55 kilos and 165 cm tall that has a sedentary life but works out 2x week on light exercise (elliptical or stationary bike) is about 1250/1300 calories.

A man has less BF and more muscle and is also usually taller and more weight, therefore the calorie needs between man vs woman are different if everything else is equal.

Disregard my last. Rage levee suddenly and catastrophically crested.

mm1970

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Re: Never been overweight? Tell us about your habits
« Reply #83 on: October 19, 2018, 01:09:31 PM »
Quote
I agree that menopause might shuffle things around but only in my opinion on a composition level and not weight level - energy aka calories does not appear from thin air.

Um okay, just like the hormones are disappearing into thin air?  Peri-menopause and menopause come with major hormonal changes.  Hormones change your calorie needs.  There's a reason why the average woman gains 5 lbs and it's not because she starts main-lining sweets.  It's because in general, your body slows down due to hormone changes.  Notice what the recommendations are to avoid weight gain at menopause: make changes to increase your exercise and decrease your calories because holding steady does not work.

I gather it can be pretty stressful and frustrating for many. One of my running buddies is 62 and trying to lose the menopause weight around her middle.   Note: she must have always been very thin.  Because she's still thin.  And what she sees as extra weight around her middle?  I don't see it.  She's of a normal weight.  She's still having hot flashes.  Her heart rate gets very high during running (much higher than before menopause), which limits her ability.  Her answer lately has been an attempt to do keto while training for a half marathon.  Not really working for her.

(Plus along with all this often comes anxiety and lack of sleep, which affect cortisol...another hormone issue, well associated with weight gain).

wordnerd

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Re: Never been overweight? Tell us about your habits
« Reply #84 on: October 19, 2018, 01:14:28 PM »
I don't fit the criteria, but I think my experience may be illustrative. I was obese in high school, overweight in college, normal weight and steady since (about 10 years). I lost about 50-60 lbs over 5 years, so it was slow. My family is all obese/overweight, and when lived with them, so was I. After I moved out, I learned about nutrition and established new routines. My husband is an (almost) never-overweight, and we live that kind of lifestyle now.
*Important caveat: I believe the food system in the U.S. has changed in ways that make it increasingly difficult to eat healthfully. Additionally, our built environment generally discourages movement and active transportation. There's also increasing evidence that how we are fed as infants can affect our microbiome, as well as how we experience hunger cues. Consequentially, I believe we need to stop thinking individuals are responsible for obesity and think about how we can change society to encourage healthy lifestyles.*

With that out of the way, some key differences in my experience:
1) Food as sustenance vs. food as experience. Growing up, we ate to bond as a family, because the game was on, because there was a new restaurant, because we were watching a movie, etc. We ate at weird times for emotional reasons. For a long time, we ate at 9pm every night and had sugary snacks in the afternoon to last that long. Now, I eat when I am hungry and stop when I'm full. I eat at pretty much the same times everyday and a lot of the same foods.
2) Understanding hunger cues. Because of #1, I had learned to ignore my hunger (and fullness) cues. It took YEARS after I started losing weight to truly know if I was hungry and full. Before that I was guessing and probably ate too little sometimes.
3) TV vs. movement. My family watches a ton of TV. We (DH and I) watch almost none. I've always enjoyed long walks as a form of entertainment. Lucked out on that one. My brothers have gone through periods of intense exercise where they lose weight, but eventually gain it back. I've never been big on "exercise" per se (though I did fall in love with yoga a few years ago), but I do love to move.
4) Alcohol. This one didn't affect me as a kid, but certainly plays a role now. Everyone else in my family drinks daily. For us, it's a treat, and we generally don't keep alcohol in the house.
5) Sugar. I've never had a sweet tooth. My dad used to get mad when I didn't eat ice cream and cookies with the family (I guess because I wasn't participating in the experience?), so I did. But it's not something I choose to have around. I also don't like chocolate, which rules out a lot of desserts in any case.
6) Restaurants. We don't eat out almost ever now. My parents eat out at least 2x a week.
7) Food we buy at the store. When I shop now, I tend to get unprocessed foods and a lot less meat than I had growing up.

I can't think of anything else at this point. To be clear, I don't think anyone in my family needs to lose weight unless they want to. I am just very aware of how I had  to change my habits considerably from how I was raised to become a consistently "normal" weight adult (which is what I wanted for myself).

mm1970

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Re: Never been overweight? Tell us about your habits
« Reply #85 on: October 19, 2018, 01:35:51 PM »
Quote
*Important caveat: I believe the food system in the U.S. has changed in ways that make it increasingly difficult to eat healthfully. Additionally, our built environment generally discourages movement and active transportation. There's also increasing evidence that how we are fed as infants can affect our microbiome, as well as how we experience hunger cues. Consequentially, I believe we need to stop thinking individuals are responsible for obesity and think about how we can change society to encourage healthy lifestyles.*

I think we cannot emphasize these points enough.  And some of them, like the microbiome, we are learning about just now.  More and more every year.

Quote
Disregard my last. Rage levee suddenly and catastrophically crested.

Sadly yes.  So. Many. Opinions. 


use2betrix

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Re: Never been overweight? Tell us about your habits
« Reply #86 on: October 19, 2018, 02:24:18 PM »
So let me ask this:

With obesity for many being based solely on psychological factors, which seems totally acceptable, why isn’t spending viewed similarly for some?

I am fairly positive there are studies that could compare peoples impulse purchasing releasing endorphins similar to an overweight person snacking.

Yet - people here spend and they get face punches. Eat too much? Not the same case..

DS

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Re: Never been overweight? Tell us about your habits
« Reply #87 on: October 19, 2018, 02:27:33 PM »
So let me ask this:

With obesity for many being based solely on psychological factors, which seems totally acceptable, why isn’t spending viewed similarly for some?

I am fairly positive there are studies that could compare peoples impulse purchasing releasing endorphins similar to an overweight person snacking.

Yet - people here spend and they get face punches. Eat too much? Not the same case..

In the end, you have to eat every day, multiple times per day in order to live. No choice whatsoever.

You don't have to purchase facepunch-worthy items to survive, and don't have to cross that decision so many times so you can actually have a chance to separate yourself and break free from the cycle.

Disclaimer: not a scientist / therapist :)

Roots&Wings

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Re: Never been overweight? Tell us about your habits
« Reply #88 on: October 19, 2018, 02:42:18 PM »
To be clear, I don't think anyone in my family needs to lose weight unless they want to. I am just very aware of how I had  to change my habits considerably from how I was raised to become a consistently "normal" weight adult (which is what I wanted for myself).

I am very curious about this, as obesity is a disease with serious health consequences. Could you perhaps elaborate? Would you feel similarly if the issue were smoking, or drugs, or alcohol? I understand that no one should be shamed and people have to want to change, but I think there's something important I'm missing. Thank you in advance if you share more!

wenchsenior

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Re: Never been overweight? Tell us about your habits
« Reply #89 on: October 19, 2018, 02:43:14 PM »
So let me ask this:

With obesity for many being based solely on psychological factors, which seems totally acceptable, why isn’t spending viewed similarly for some?

I am fairly positive there are studies that could compare peoples impulse purchasing releasing endorphins similar to an overweight person snacking.

Yet - people here spend and they get face punches. Eat too much? Not the same case..

In the end, you have to eat every day, multiple times per day in order to live. No choice whatsoever.

You don't have to purchase facepunch-worthy items to survive, and don't have to cross that decision so many times so you can actually have a chance to separate yourself and break free from the cycle.

Disclaimer: not a scientist / therapist :)

100% agree.  Psychological problems/hurdles in a lot of areas of overindulgence or addiction can be dealt with by simply not exposing yourself to the triggers.  And though food can work this way a little bit (don't keep ice cream in the house, etc), there is no easy way to stop eating (unless you are on a liquid/IV diet).

wenchsenior

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Re: Never been overweight? Tell us about your habits
« Reply #90 on: October 19, 2018, 02:47:36 PM »
Quote
*Important caveat: I believe the food system in the U.S. has changed in ways that make it increasingly difficult to eat healthfully. Additionally, our built environment generally discourages movement and active transportation. There's also increasing evidence that how we are fed as infants can affect our microbiome, as well as how we experience hunger cues. Consequentially, I believe we need to stop thinking individuals are responsible for obesity and think about how we can change society to encourage healthy lifestyles.*

I think we cannot emphasize these points enough.  And some of them, like the microbiome, we are learning about just now.  More and more every year.

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Disregard my last. Rage levee suddenly and catastrophically crested.

Sadly yes.  So. Many. Opinions.

OMG, yes, I hadn't even thought of that when I first answered the OP's post.  But I was a very premature baby, and I've sometimes wondered if that plays a role in some of my health issues.  Who knows, perhaps it affects my body's gut biome and weight set-points and metabolism et al. and makes it easier to lose weight and harder to gain. 

teen persuasion

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Re: Never been overweight? Tell us about your habits
« Reply #91 on: October 19, 2018, 02:57:09 PM »
I've never been overweight, I hover around 105lb at 5'5", except during my pregnancies when I gained the standard 25lbs or so.

I have no idea how to count calories (because I eat more unprocessed foods than processed).  I don't limit what I eat, I eat what want, but in moderation.  Dessert is almost a given, because I grew up with a mom who loves to bake (she got a culinary degree at age 50), but that constant exposure to sweets means that our family has become selective about them - I'm good with a taste of danish, not 3.  I NEVER eat diet foods (low fat, low sugar, fake sugar, etc.) - its only full fat, made with butter and cream cheese, you get the idea.  I find pop way too sweet, so rarely drink much sweet stuff.  Also rarely eat out - commercial foods are too salty, and I feel yucky and bloated after eating them.  Much prefer home cooked meals.

I don't exercise on purpose, if you KWIM, but I favor doing things the hard way: hand knead dough, mix cookies by hand, line dry clothes, etc.  I do a lot of stairs each day - big farmhouse, kitchen upstairs, fridge downstairs.  At work, too - up to get something out of storage, basement for recycling, repeat an hour later.  I'm hauling stacks or bags of books around all day.

I've come to the conclusion weight gains for us are at least heavily influenced by genetics, and not just calories in/burned, because DH is eating mostly the same things I am (what I buy/cook), but he's struggling with gaining, while I'm not.  The kids are mostly like me, especially the boys.  My sister is another who can't gain weight to save her life type - she had a co-worker bet her that if she ate X for a week (or month?) she'd gain weight.  She took the bet just to shut him up, ate X every day at work for proof, never gained.  Can't recall what X was, maybe pasta?

Sleep - I probably don't get as much sleep as I should, less than 8 hours a night.  I get reading after everyone else goes to bed, and lose track of time, but still have to get up in the morning to get kids off to school.  DH struggles with sleep issues (apnea and insomnia at times).  Wonder if his weight gain could be cause or effect of sleep troubles.

wordnerd

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Re: Never been overweight? Tell us about your habits
« Reply #92 on: October 19, 2018, 02:58:51 PM »
To be clear, I don't think anyone in my family needs to lose weight unless they want to. I am just very aware of how I had  to change my habits considerably from how I was raised to become a consistently "normal" weight adult (which is what I wanted for myself).

I am very curious about this, as obesity is a disease with serious health consequences. Could you perhaps elaborate? Would you feel similarly if the issue were smoking, or drugs, or alcohol? I understand that no one should be shamed and people have to want to change, but I think there's something important I'm missing. Thank you in advance if you share more!

It was a lousy sentence, and I should've deleted it. :)

I guess what I was trying to say (however inartfully) was that I don't think I'm "better" than them because I changed my habits. Weight is particularly fraught with judgment, and I used to feel that I was a lesser person for being heavy. Then, when I first lost the weight, I got a little self-righteous about it. At this point, I'm aware that we all have different issues that affect our health and lives, and weight is just one. My parents and siblings are all adults and can choose to make changes if they want, but I'm not going to evangelize about it. They think a lot of my habits (including my frugality) are wrong headed. They could probably make arguments about my mental health being poorly affected, similar to some of the health-shaming that goes on with obesity. But I appreciate that they respect my decisions at this point. I want to repay them the same respect.

use2betrix

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Re: Never been overweight? Tell us about your habits
« Reply #93 on: October 19, 2018, 02:59:35 PM »
So let me ask this:

With obesity for many being based solely on psychological factors, which seems totally acceptable, why isn’t spending viewed similarly for some?

I am fairly positive there are studies that could compare peoples impulse purchasing releasing endorphins similar to an overweight person snacking.

Yet - people here spend and they get face punches. Eat too much? Not the same case..

In the end, you have to eat every day, multiple times per day in order to live. No choice whatsoever.

You don't have to purchase facepunch-worthy items to survive, and don't have to cross that decision so many times so you can actually have a chance to separate yourself and break free from the cycle.

Disclaimer: not a scientist / therapist :)

Also not a scientist - however I would bet people are exposed to more advertising every day than they are food choices right in their face.

It’s far easier to order anything online as a simple “buy with 1 click” than it is to physically go out of your way to the store, gas station, fast food place, etc. and buy food they shouldn’t eat.

While people may have to “eat to live” by eating the “wrong” stuff, it’s far more fatal and detrimental to ones health than “buying shit they don’t need.”


I just find it odd that some people are so sensitive to the subject, yet don’t see any of the same sensitivities needing to be applied to by spending. I lost 40lbs after my brother sent me a picture from my wedding and I was like “holy shit I look disgusting.” If anyone else would have told me that I would’ve gladly agreed because it was true!

I had skin cancer in my 20’s due to my OWN STUPIDITY of tanning too much. If someone told me that I had skin cancer because I tanned too much, how would I do anything but agree?

I dunno, maybe I’m just different, but I feel like personal accountability goes a long ways*

*coming from someone who’s lost 40lbs, so yeah, I’ve been there.

use2betrix

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Re: Never been overweight? Tell us about your habits
« Reply #94 on: October 19, 2018, 03:23:05 PM »
Does anyone here have the studies to compare the genetic effects of relationships and marriages have on weight gain? I know countless people who, while single, are incredibly involved in exercise, physical activity, and healthy eating while they are single. Then as soon as they are in a relationship, their genetics must change, or they develop psychological issues, because they no longer exercise or eat healthy and gain weight?

I’m really wondering if there’s been studies done one this? I wonder if there is a correlation between longevity, health, and remaining single?

booyah

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Re: Never been overweight? Tell us about your habits
« Reply #95 on: October 19, 2018, 03:24:19 PM »
I’ve been reading some of the weight loss threads and find them rather depressing.
I have not counted a calorie in my life and most certainly have not ever spent anywhere near the intimidating efforts the dieters are expending on how much I eat.
I also have not seen anyone who has not ever had a weight problem post in these threads.
I assume that the never-fat have a lifestyle that can serve as an example.

Yikes @ all the unnecessary put-downs. Why would anyone who isn't interested in losing weight post in a weight loss challenge thread?

What is the challenge/ gauntlet you are proposing?
It would have rung more true as a genuine question vs pat on the back if he hadn’t posted as the example to emulate.


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TartanTallulah

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Re: Never been overweight? Tell us about your habits
« Reply #96 on: October 19, 2018, 03:25:04 PM »
Just curious, how many never overweight folks have ever had a conversation with a medical professional about obesity?
 
To me the idea that a never overweight person who is not medical professional or obesity specialist can give advice on this issue is as absurd as a person who has never had cancer can tell all the folks out there battling cancer what to do. 

Then instead of being supportive, throw in some comments about how it can't be genetics (citation from a peer reviewed journal article on that or just uneducated guess?), it is all your behavior, etc. with no formal training or personal experience in the subject.  All unsolicited advice of course, with a dab of righteousness thrown in.

Pick any other medical condition - cancer, diabetes, parkinson's disease and insert them in some of these posts instead of "overweight" or "obese" and it would be laughable.

I'm a medical professional, never overweight, and I talk to myself quite a lot about obesity because it's relevant to my job. Does that count?

I'm a Health At Every Size practitioner. My responsibility is to offer people the best medical care I can irrespective of their body size. I will not nag people to lose weight, and if someone is denied medical treatment because of their weight that would have been offered to them if they'd weighed less I will advocate vigorously on their behalf. I encourage physical activity, adequate sleep, and as nutritious a diet as that person can realistically achieve, but as healthy behaviours in their own right rather than with the objective of achieving weight loss. I'll offer specific advice on nutrition to someone of any size if they ask me or if there's a genuine clinical reason for them to eat one thing rather than another or seek out a particular nutrient, but won't engage in "dieting talk" or engage with food diaries. My own body size is out of bounds for discussion but most of my patients know I do a lot of sport and, I have no doubt, know what goes into my basket at the supermarket.

I work with two obese doctors whose default advice to patients seems to be, "Lose weight." These two individuals have been on slimming diets for as long as I've known them (I have no reason to believe that they go home at night and fall into the cookie jar any oftener than I do), and have gained weight in that time. I can't get my head round them telling people, "Do as I do/aspire to do," when it's obvious that it's not working for them unless "being on a slimming diet" rather than losing weight is an objective in itself.

I might ask someone who was concerned about being over- or underweight, "Would you like to tell me what you think are the reasons for you being the weight you are?" but I don't think I've ever had that conversation with someone for whom weight had never been an issue.

I'm not complacent about my own health. My father was lean until his sixties, but gained weight when he stopped work despite remaining physically active and has prediabetes and has had a heart attack. I'll be keeping an eye on my own cardiovascular risk factors irrespective of what my weight does over time.

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Re: Never been overweight? Tell us about your habits
« Reply #97 on: October 19, 2018, 03:38:17 PM »
Does anyone here have the studies to compare the genetic effects of relationships and marriages have on weight gain? I know countless people who, while single, are incredibly involved in exercise, physical activity, and healthy eating while they are single. Then as soon as they are in a relationship, their genetics must change, or they develop psychological issues, because they no longer exercise or eat healthy and gain weight?

I’m really wondering if there’s been studies done one this? I wonder if there is a correlation between longevity, health, and remaining single?

I believe there has been research that indicates that social peers can have an effect on one's weight (presumably via habits around diet and activity), which one would assume includes partners' influence on their partner.  But you seem to think that everyone in this thread thinks that activity and food choice doesn't affect weight outcomes, and I don't think anyone has argued that.

ETA: I've read that marriage has a positive statistical effect on men's health and longevity, but not on women's.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2018, 03:39:49 PM by wenchsenior »

JKCal

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Re: Never been overweight? Tell us about your habits
« Reply #98 on: October 19, 2018, 04:37:38 PM »
I've read that a lot of the genetics of obesity is that while weight itself might not be totally genetic, appetite is highly genetic (and pretty much fixed for each person). People who were born pre-disposed to having a larger appetite in today's age find themselves in an environment where unhealthy food is plentiful (and can even  be hard to avoid), and that is one of the major factors driving obesity.  You take the same person with the same appetite back when either food was scarce or at least processed food was unknown, and they'd probably end up with a very different body weight.

That lines up with my own personal experience--I've never been overweight (I think my BMI might have been just over 25 in the post-baby period).  I never really watch what I eat, but I don't have a huge appetite.  I enjoy food, but after a few bites, it's like a switch flips on and I'm full and don't want to eat anymore.  I'm also lucky that I don't have a sweet tooth, so I never really eat sweets or dessert or soda, which I am sure helps.

I also think, just based on my experience, there is a lot to be said for differences in body type--some people seem to put on weight more easily and some people put on muscle more easily.  I was a pretty serious athlete through college and still enjoy getting lots of exercise.  During the few times in my life where I wasn't getting as much exercise as I normally do (pregnancy, etc), I found I gained weight rather easily.  But, once I got back to regular vigorous exercise, the weight melted away pretty quickly and my muscle strength came back.  For the record, I walk about 2 miles each way to work everyday and do more vigorous exercise (HIIT, playing basketball, or something similar) four times per week.  (I've also read that if you have a high level of fitness in your teenage years, it is easier to rebuild your strength later in life after an event like pregnancy, but I'm not sure if that is accurate).

My husband is really the type of guy you are looking for though--he is tall (6'4) and has always been skinny (usually skinnier than he'd like), he weighs about 165.  He eats whatever he wants and loves candy, only sleeps about 6-7 hours a night, hates all forms of exercise (opposites attract for us, I guess).  I don't think he's aware of it, but he also has a pretty small appetite -- doesn't eat breakfast, has maybe a sandwich for lunch, and then if we have pizza for dinner or something he'll maybe eat two slices and then have some candy (lol, mature).

Gray Matter

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Re: Never been overweight? Tell us about your habits
« Reply #99 on: October 19, 2018, 04:57:35 PM »
I'm a medical professional, never overweight, and I talk to myself quite a lot about obesity because it's relevant to my job. Does that count?

I'm a Health At Every Size practitioner. My responsibility is to offer people the best medical care I can irrespective of their body size. I will not nag people to lose weight, and if someone is denied medical treatment because of their weight that would have been offered to them if they'd weighed less I will advocate vigorously on their behalf. I encourage physical activity, adequate sleep, and as nutritious a diet as that person can realistically achieve, but as healthy behaviours in their own right rather than with the objective of achieving weight loss.

I just want to say thank you.  Seriously, THANK YOU.  We need more medical professionals like you.