Author Topic: Needed: List of ideas to escape one's job even though not FI  (Read 2423 times)

ChpBstrd

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Needed: List of ideas to escape one's job even though not FI
« on: August 10, 2022, 01:59:22 PM »
It's another intolerably dull day at work, and I need to find a way out. With about $860k in investments and estimated spending around $60k, I'm far from living off of a diversified portfolio. So I'm brainstorming ideas to regain my time each day and work vastly fewer hours. Here's my list of general ideas. Am I missing anything legal?

1) Landlording
2) Tim-Ferris style 4-hour workweek activities to sell something and set up an automated business
3) Writing / blogging / vlogging
4) Using leverage on Interactive Brokers to borrow a stream of dividends / interest.
5) Sporatic contract or temp jobs
6) ??

I lack the charm / luck needed to be a social media influencer, and I'm not particularly interested in barista FIRE because that would paradoxically be harder to sustain than my current job. I'm also wary of combining dozens of little things because of the inefficiency. I'm leaning toward #4, but I'd like to make a more complete list than this! Any ideas?

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Needed: List of ideas to escape one's job even though not FI
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2022, 02:16:32 PM »
So you're looking to downshift?  More information is needed.

What makes work dull?  Are you busy, but with uninteresting things? Look into automating your job.  Do you find yourself idle most of the time?  This thread about idleness at work may prove helpful.

Also, how much do you make now, vs how much you spend?  Could you downshift now in your current job?  Do you have a particular skillset that would be better employed at a different job?  You may need *a* job,, but you don't need *this* job.

Adventine

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Re: Needed: List of ideas to escape one's job even though not FI
« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2022, 02:19:32 PM »
Anything else you could cut from the budget without sacrificing your quality of life? If so inclined, you could make it a game to ambitiously reduce your spending to, say, 40k a year.

ChpBstrd

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Re: Needed: List of ideas to escape one's job even though not FI
« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2022, 03:01:56 PM »
So you're looking to downshift?  More information is needed.

What makes work dull?  Are you busy, but with uninteresting things? Look into automating your job.  Do you find yourself idle most of the time?  This thread about idleness at work may prove helpful.

Also, how much do you make now, vs how much you spend?  Could you downshift now in your current job?  Do you have a particular skillset that would be better employed at a different job?  You may need *a* job,, but you don't need *this* job.

The problem to solve is how to free up more time. E.g. minimize the work-time / total-time ratio. I've been through 3 careers and a dozen employers, and have never been satisfied spending so much of my life at a job. My job doesn't really have automation potential, promotion potential, or the potential for significant innovation.

getsorted

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Re: Needed: List of ideas to escape one's job even though not FI
« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2022, 03:34:05 PM »
My job doesn't really have automation potential, promotion potential, or the potential for significant innovation.

You need a different job based on those last two alone.

I think you might do well at blogging. You can always reach out to established blogs you already like and see if they buy guest posts. Start taking some comments you've made here, generalize them a bit, and throw them up on a blog-- now you've got writing samples to show.

I know for me, developing my side-hustle tends to produce some life-energy that has helped me get through my boring day job.

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Needed: List of ideas to escape one's job even though not FI
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2022, 03:50:12 PM »
So you're looking to downshift?  More information is needed.

What makes work dull?  Are you busy, but with uninteresting things? Look into automating your job.  Do you find yourself idle most of the time?  This thread about idleness at work may prove helpful.

Also, how much do you make now, vs how much you spend?  Could you downshift now in your current job?  Do you have a particular skillset that would be better employed at a different job?  You may need *a* job,, but you don't need *this* job.

The problem to solve is how to free up more time. E.g. minimize the work-time / total-time ratio. I've been through 3 careers and a dozen employers, and have never been satisfied spending so much of my life at a job. My job doesn't really have automation potential, promotion potential, or the potential for significant innovation.
So...do you hate the nature of the work you're doing on a daily basis? Or is it more a matter of having too little to do?  If the latter, could you use some of those idle hours at work to do things that you would normally do on your own time*, thus freeing up some off-duty time?  Or could you request to go part-time?  Or look for a job that's less dull and/or allows WFH or part time?

How close are you to FI?  Are your skills amenable for contract/gig work?

* - paying bills, making appointments, stepping out of the office to run errands, etc

Freedomin5

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Re: Needed: List of ideas to escape one's job even though not FI
« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2022, 04:24:26 PM »
6) Look for a new job doing something similar at a different company that pays more. If you're going to be bored at work, might as well be paid more for it and get to FIRE sooner. Even better if it allows you to work fewer hours (e.g., 4-day workweek) for similar pay.

Paul der Krake

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Re: Needed: List of ideas to escape one's job even though not FI
« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2022, 04:39:53 PM »
Get outside of your comfort zone and get a job for which you're barely qualified and shouldn't be hired. Whatever you career progression looks like, aim for at least 1.5 or 2 levels above that.

How will you know you find the right job? It should be clear that you are the dumbest person in the room. You'll spend the next 12-18 months catching up and boredom will be impossible.

If that's not possible, congratulations, you are the smartest person on earth.

Zikoris

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Re: Needed: List of ideas to escape one's job even though not FI
« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2022, 04:56:52 PM »
I'd just spend less personally. Seems like you could cut that by 25-50% really easily. 75% if you wanted to be frugal.

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Re: Needed: List of ideas to escape one's job even though not FI
« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2022, 06:36:58 PM »
If I were in your shoes, I'd be looking for a better job. Its not like you are 90% of the way to FI and you just need a little extra something to bridge you over. It sounds like you are in for a few more years. So its best to find something that you can bear for that time frame.

Even if you were to find a side hustle, those things usually take time to grow into a dependable stream of income, so that would be a few years anyways.

In fact I WAS in your shoes, though I don't know if the nature of our jobs was the same. As I posted in the work idleness thread, I used the downtime to dive headfirst into learning about FIRE. If the nature of your job allows for it, you could use that time to research or build your side hustle, or research jobs or careers that you wouldn't mind doing for the next few years. For me, I was behind a computer all day, with a boss who didn't care what I did, as long as I got my work done.

Eventually, I found a different job, much busier, much more enjoyable, and higher paying. Suddenly I wasn't just counting down the days anymore, and the past 6 years have flown by.

Morning Glory

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Re: Needed: List of ideas to escape one's job even though not FI
« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2022, 08:23:31 PM »
You must have been brushing $1 million before this recent downturn.  Can you quit and take six months or a year off, then find a similar job if your portfolio drops below a certain threshold or fails to recover by x date?

ChpBstrd

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Re: Needed: List of ideas to escape one's job even though not FI
« Reply #11 on: August 11, 2022, 06:09:28 AM »
My job doesn't really have automation potential, promotion potential, or the potential for significant innovation.

You need a different job based on those last two alone.

I think you might do well at blogging. You can always reach out to established blogs you already like and see if they buy guest posts. Start taking some comments you've made here, generalize them a bit, and throw them up on a blog-- now you've got writing samples to show.

I know for me, developing my side-hustle tends to produce some life-energy that has helped me get through my boring day job.

I thought about something like that. 2 issues:

1) The odds of succeeding as a middle aged blogger/vlogger/influencer are, what? One in a thousand? Celebrity is a very luck-based thing. It's kind of like moving to Los Angeles with a plan to get into acting. Now imagine the odds for lazy people like myself :)

2) The level of initial input required to get started would be at least a part-time job, which would be fine if that investment freed up time later on. But I'm not so sure successful influencers don't actually work full time to get attention. MMM was posting nearly a dozen articles a month when he got started, built an app, did a YT channel, and of course, eventually dialed back because it was becoming a full time job. If MMM's outcome could for sure be the result of his level of effort, it would totally be worth it, but I think a more common outcome is the full-time influencer who struggles to earn as much as any other full-time job.

I'm keeping this in mind, but it's kind of like a plan to get into the NBA and retire after receiving the first year's salary. Maybe that's negative thinking, but I'm just not aware of many people working a four-to-ten hour work week and breaking through the noise to become a successful influencer on social media (OnlyFans *might* be an exception, but I'm doubtful). Sure, lightning strikes, but of all the opportunities in the world is this the one to pursue, given the odds?

ChpBstrd

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Re: Needed: List of ideas to escape one's job even though not FI
« Reply #12 on: August 11, 2022, 07:17:00 AM »
Get outside of your comfort zone and get a job for which you're barely qualified and shouldn't be hired. Whatever you career progression looks like, aim for at least 1.5 or 2 levels above that.

How will you know you find the right job? It should be clear that you are the dumbest person in the room. You'll spend the next 12-18 months catching up and boredom will be impossible.

I love this attitude, and I've considered it myself. A lot of warm bodies are getting promoted into stupid levels of responsibility, and I could be one such person. However, taking on a 60-80 hour per week executive job would be a step backward in terms of my original goal, and it's not clear if another $20k per year would actually make a dent of more than a few months in terms of my time to FIRE. My portfolio goes up and down on its own that much every month.

You must have been brushing $1 million before this recent downturn.  Can you quit and take six months or a year off, then find a similar job if your portfolio drops below a certain threshold or fails to recover by x date?

Good inference. I haven't taken a sabbatical since being laid off in the summer of 2009 and deciding to focus on education for six months. That was no vacation because money was tight and school was itself a FT job. I am now in the rare sort of position I wanted to have back then: working from home, solidly middle class, a great corporate culture, and with a real 40 hour workweek. If I was laid off right now, I'd probably take another break, cultivate a side gig or two, cut expenses, and see where the market goes for a few months.

It's not that my job sucks, it's that I want to take a categorical look at my options other than reaching $1.5M in the stock market and doing a traditional 4% retirement X years from now. With landlording, for example, I have enough assets and credit right now to buy 20+ cash-flowing apartments in my LCOL area if I wanted to, and then I could outsource management.

Even if you were to find a side hustle, those things usually take time to grow into a dependable stream of income, so that would be a few years anyways.
Excellent point. Some of the "buy yourself a job" options like landlording have a faster startup time, but any business startup - especially if done in spare time while I have a regular job - would take a bit of time to become profitable. At this late stage in the game, side hustles compete with the idea of just waiting for the markets to go up, exploiting as much of my youthful time as possible, and being there for my family instead of being a workaholic.

I'd just spend less personally. Seems like you could cut that by 25-50% really easily. 75% if you wanted to be frugal.

I have explained to DW and the kid how every dollar spent extends my career by the time it takes to earn $25, or more like $30 pre-tax. They are not analytical types, which is why a $40 purse arrived from Amazon yesterday, we still have a Netflix subscription, and the kid complains if we don't have takeout at least once a week. Crazy unexpected home repairs and upgrades have been driving our spending for the past 4 years, so I naively hope we can get back down to $50k now that those items are complete.

Midwest_Handlebar

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Re: Needed: List of ideas to escape one's job even though not FI
« Reply #13 on: August 11, 2022, 07:21:58 AM »
I would suggest you at least dip your toes into the landlord game. Depending on where you lived you could make your numbers work now and live off the rents, but it would likely take a year or two to set up given you're working. You can devote as little or as much time as you want, but with some effort you could diversify your money and make sustainably more than the 4% safe withdrawal rate. It sped up my FIRE time by at least 3-4 years and I did it with a full time job, 2 kids, etc, etc.

It's not for everyone though and don't expect rainbows and unicorns.

Paul der Krake

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Re: Needed: List of ideas to escape one's job even though not FI
« Reply #14 on: August 11, 2022, 08:57:19 AM »
Where are these 20+ cash-flowing units?

ChpBstrd

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Re: Needed: List of ideas to escape one's job even though not FI
« Reply #15 on: August 11, 2022, 09:26:24 AM »
Where are these 20+ cash-flowing units?
Here in the Deep South, 2/1 apartments have asking prices of around $50-100k each and the 1% rule often still applies. Zillow around Jackson, Memphis, Little Rock, Fayetteville, Fort Smith, Springfield, or Tulsa.

In one of these areas, for example, there is a 22-unit complex in a "C" neighborhood asking $1.2M. Rents are probably $650/unit. I have the down payment and working capital to buy it if I wanted to, but as a newbie that's more than I'd like to bite off at one time. I'd be more inclined to accumulate $100k units in a "B" neighborhood on the theory that the renters will be lower-maintenance. Again, I'm lazy.

gooki

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Re: Needed: List of ideas to escape one's job even though not FI
« Reply #16 on: August 11, 2022, 09:41:56 PM »
Are remote work from home jobs available in your industry?

If so book meetings with yourself for the times you don't want to work. And then get the stuff done during the hours you do want to work.

less4success

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Re: Needed: List of ideas to escape one's job even though not FI
« Reply #17 on: August 11, 2022, 10:10:24 PM »
Given that you're in an area where you might be able to follow the 1% rule, if you have any inclination whatsoever, I think testing the landlord waters is a great idea. The main reason I say this is that it seems like a job that you can eventually automate/delegate most, if not all, of the work away.

Additionally, you're already well known to a bunch of folks on this forum, some of whom can probably give you pointers here and there. (Sadly, I'm not one of those people--I know very little about directly investing in real estate.)

Midwest_Handlebar

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Re: Needed: List of ideas to escape one's job even though not FI
« Reply #18 on: August 13, 2022, 07:03:02 AM »
It sounds like you are of the same opinion, but DO NOT BUY 20+ UNITS on your first real estate deal! You'll have too many eggs in one basket and you're inexperienced enough to not know if you'll have a giant hole in that basket. My suggestion is to buy a smaller, less expensive property in a B neighborhood and self manage it. Hell, you can even do this in cash so you can see the significant cash flow monthly and it'll be "worth it" to you. The numbers won't look as good on paper, but you'll gain valuable experience and won't have to deal with the steady flow of late payments, vacancies, evictions that will likely come from a property that you're describing.

Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face. Best to adopt the Mayweather strategy and avoid the punches.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2022, 07:07:08 AM by Midwest_Handlebar »

Dicey

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Re: Needed: List of ideas to escape one's job even though not FI
« Reply #19 on: August 13, 2022, 08:15:04 AM »
Hey, maybe I have something to add here...

I was in a similar space. While searching for my parents, I stumbled upon a large retirement resort community that was really nice and way less expensive than where I lived. I figured I'd buy a place while they were being built, so I could get exactly what I wanted, then I'd rent it out until I hit FIRE and was old enough to actually move there. I opted for adding a "Casita", which I outfitted for myself and did not rent out. It became my sanctuary, the perfect escape from my stressful work life.

It was too far to drive for a weekend, but I figured out I could hop on the first flight* on Saturday morning and return on the first flight Monday morning and go straight to work refreshed. I found cheap fares on Southwest, and rental cars. I used affinity programs to earn rewards. Avoiding the typical Friday/Sunday crowds made it so much easier. The first flight on a Saturday is always on time and never full. I often got a whole row and slept the entire flight. I used Hertz Gold and went straight to my pre-assigned vehicle.

Once I arrived at my tiny hideaway, I was able to unplug from my demanding work life completely. I loved my perfect little haven. I made friends in the new community and learned some valuable life lessons. Yes, if you're lucky enough to live that long, there may come a time when you can't change a ceiling light bulb, replace a smoke alarm battery or dig something out of the cupboard under the sink, things a younger person (me) could do it without a moment's hesitation. I talked to everyone, learning about their paths to retirement. I got lots of great ideas and the complete break from work was utterly refreshing. There were times when I buckled up my sealtbelt prior to takeoff on a Saturday morning and thought to myself "No one I work with has any idea where I am." Bliss!

My first tenant stayed for nine years and he still has a place in my heart. Because I bought in 2003, I was never under water, but I also didn't see great ROI for a long time, but having a secret sanctuary to escape to saved my sanity during some very stressful years. Happily, the market improved and so have the numbers. It's now a sweet moneymaker and I still enjoy using the Casita.

*Please, no air travel hate. I'm FIRE now and have more time, so I drive. In my job, I was always a business traveler, hopping on a plane was no big deal then. I think differently now. I've flown less in ten years of retirement than I did in one year in my working days.

P.S. We own three houses there now. After we got married, DH and I snagged two more when the market was down, so they cash flow nicely. We wouldn't mind a couple more, but prices are insane now. No way would I buy 20 units right now.

getsorted

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Re: Needed: List of ideas to escape one's job even though not FI
« Reply #20 on: August 13, 2022, 08:29:55 AM »

While searching for my parents

I read through this twice trying to figure out how your parents had gone missing. 😅

Dicey

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Re: Needed: List of ideas to escape one's job even though not FI
« Reply #21 on: August 13, 2022, 11:10:54 AM »

While searching for my parents

I read through this twice trying to figure out how your parents had gone missing. 😅
Hint: check the time of the post and subtract a couple of hours because I'm in CA. I knew it was clunky, but my tired, recalcitrant brain couldn't resolve it. I was hoping later context would add clarity. It's also not all that relevant to the OP's query, but it's related to FIRE, so here goes:

In 1980, my Dad retired, at age 50. (My hero ❤️) In 2003, my parents still lived in the 2 story, 5 BR house they raised our family of eight in. I didn't like the way the neighborhood was looking, so I had been encouraging them to consider downsizing for years. It was absolutely not on my radar for myself. On a holiday visit, alarmed by changes in the old 'hood, I dragged them out this large Senior resort. We looked at the models and the entire community. They demurred, I acted.

I eventually found them a new, smaller Senior community by the same developer, a little closer to home, (They could keep their doctors!) and they finally pulled the trigger in 2005. They sold their home at the peak of the market and ended up absolutely loving the new place and made lots of great friends. Along the journey, my mother threatened to disown me more than once. Ultimately, she declared moving was "her" best decision ever. Yeah, sure Mom. Oh yeah, the old family home was eventually foreclosed on, twice. My instinct to get them moved proved spot-on. They lived there happily for a dozen years before they passed away.

Hope that helps.

Not to get too location specific, they lived in SoCal and I lived in NorCal, about 500 miles apart.

FIRE 20/20

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Re: Needed: List of ideas to escape one's job even though not FI
« Reply #22 on: August 13, 2022, 11:14:14 AM »
I am now in the rare sort of position I wanted to have back then: working from home, solidly middle class, a great corporate culture, and with a real 40 hour workweek. If I was laid off right now, I'd probably take another break, cultivate a side gig or two, cut expenses, and see where the market goes for a few months.
 

Is there any chance your good corporate gig would allow you to go part-time?  My partner and I did that for the last 1-2 years of our careers and it was one of the best things we did.  Given what you say about your company's corporate culture it seems likely they'd say yes.  You could use that free time as we did to just get some extra down-time, or you could use it to try out one of the options you mentioned for generating additional income.  The reduction in income is less than most people expect since in the US we have a progressive tax code. 
Or is your type of work something that could be done as a consultant?  You only need to make about $25k a year if you keep spending $60k because you could pull 4% from your $860k in investments (about $35k / year).  Anything more than $25k and you'd be ahead. 

I will add that going from about 50% of my FIRE amount to 100% was the toughest part for me because I knew at that point I was just marking time until I could quit for good.  Dropping to about 32 hours a week helped me a ton mentally and made that last year+ so much more bearable.  It only delayed FIRE by a small amount because our take-home pay wasn't impacted very much and investment growth mostly carried us across the finish line anyway.  I wish we had downshifted earlier. 

getsorted

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Re: Needed: List of ideas to escape one's job even though not FI
« Reply #23 on: August 13, 2022, 10:02:56 PM »

While searching for my parents

I read through this twice trying to figure out how your parents had gone missing. 😅
Hint: check the time of the post and subtract a couple of hours because I'm in CA. I knew it was clunky, but my tired, recalcitrant brain couldn't resolve it. I was hoping later context would add clarity. It's also not all that relevant to the OP's query, but it's related to FIRE, so here goes:

In 1980, my Dad retired, at age 50. (My hero ❤️) In 2003, my parents still lived in the 2 story, 5 BR house they raised our family of eight in. I didn't like the way the neighborhood was looking, so I had been encouraging them to consider downsizing for years. It was absolutely not on my radar for myself. On a holiday visit, alarmed by changes in the old 'hood, I dragged them out this large Senior resort. We looked at the models and the entire community. They demurred, I acted.

I eventually found them a new, smaller Senior community by the same developer, a little closer to home, (They could keep their doctors!) and they finally pulled the trigger in 2005. They sold their home at the peak of the market and ended up absolutely loving the new place and made lots of great friends. Along the journey, my mother threatened to disown me more than once. Ultimately, she declared moving was "her" best decision ever. Yeah, sure Mom. Oh yeah, the old family home was eventually foreclosed on, twice. My instinct to get them moved proved spot-on. They lived there happily for a dozen years before they passed away.

Hope that helps.

Not to get too location specific, they lived in SoCal and I lived in NorCal, about 500 miles apart.

It was clearer later, I'm just too literal!

That's a very sweet story. It is always kind of a thankless job looking after people, but it's lovely that you did that for them.

mistymoney

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Re: Needed: List of ideas to escape one's job even though not FI
« Reply #24 on: August 14, 2022, 12:58:59 PM »
but did your parents get a unit?

Loren Ver

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Re: Needed: List of ideas to escape one's job even though not FI
« Reply #25 on: August 15, 2022, 08:28:24 AM »
I come across similar questions or ideas floated to me from friends that also want to speed things up.  The trends I usually notice are:

1.  They are usually just other jobs, usually less efficient ones.  That will eat up time, or mental energy.
2.  They take capital that is diversified into many baskets and puts in into a less diverse basket of higher risk.

For example a friend floated getting a ice cream franchise, because how can that not make money?!?!!?  I said if you always wanted to own an ice cream store, great idea, if not, it's tons of work, locks money into a store (instead of diversified investments you don't need to think about), and has you relying directly on individuals to make you money - specifically teenagers coming to work and not giving out all your ice cream to their friends.  Among many other issues.  Not a great choice to speed things up or down shift.  But if it booms, it really could boom!

Loren

ChpBstrd

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Re: Needed: List of ideas to escape one's job even though not FI
« Reply #26 on: August 15, 2022, 11:06:23 AM »
Is there any chance your good corporate gig would allow you to go part-time? 

I'm not aware of any PTers in my profession, or my company.

I come across similar questions or ideas floated to me from friends that also want to speed things up.  The trends I usually notice are:

1.  They are usually just other jobs, usually less efficient ones.  That will eat up time, or mental energy.
2.  They take capital that is diversified into many baskets and puts in into a less diverse basket of higher risk.

Yea I've noticed those same trends. Part of the reason I'm reluctant to become a landlord is because most of the small-time landlords I've met are actually handymen who want to be their own boss or can't be employed in construction trades for some reason. So my market competition would be people who do DIY jobs all day because they don't work well with others. That relates to #1 in the sense that I may be overqualified to unclog sewer lines and rip out carpet for a living. If I hire out this kind of work, I'm at a financial disadvantage to my competitors.

Regarding #2, this is a major issue for landlords because one tenant with a cigar habit, 12 secret cats, or a habit of passing out drunk falling asleep in the tub while the water runs can cost tens of thousands of dollars in repairs or knock a building off the market for several months at a time. The zig-zags of the stock market are tame by comparison to mold, squatters, filth, insects, and meth labs.
#2 is a big concern


less4success

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Re: Needed: List of ideas to escape one's job even though not FI
« Reply #27 on: August 15, 2022, 11:21:01 AM »
Is there any chance your good corporate gig would allow you to go part-time? 

I'm not aware of any PTers in my profession, or my company.

I come across similar questions or ideas floated to me from friends that also want to speed things up.  The trends I usually notice are:

1.  They are usually just other jobs, usually less efficient ones.  That will eat up time, or mental energy.
2.  They take capital that is diversified into many baskets and puts in into a less diverse basket of higher risk.

Yea I've noticed those same trends. Part of the reason I'm reluctant to become a landlord is because most of the small-time landlords I've met are actually handymen who want to be their own boss or can't be employed in construction trades for some reason. So my market competition would be people who do DIY jobs all day because they don't work well with others. That relates to #1 in the sense that I may be overqualified to unclog sewer lines and rip out carpet for a living. If I hire out this kind of work, I'm at a financial disadvantage to my competitors.

Regarding #2, this is a major issue for landlords because one tenant with a cigar habit, 12 secret cats, or a habit of passing out drunk falling asleep in the tub while the water runs can cost tens of thousands of dollars in repairs or knock a building off the market for several months at a time. The zig-zags of the stock market are tame by comparison to mold, squatters, filth, insects, and meth labs.
#2 is a big concern

Disclaimer: I don't rent out any property, and I have no experience renting out property.

Renting out units in a small geographic area is definitely a higher variance activity (than index funds), but you're in the (fairly unique, based on what I've read on this forum) position of being close to properties that meet the 1% rule. That seems like a huge advantage, compared to all the landlords I personally know in real life.

I doubt I'd have the stomach for managing rentals, but where I live most rentals would be cash flow negative and you're just speculating on appreciation. Honestly, I don't know why so many people do this around here (other than all the silly tax benefits that probably won't go away since they probably benefit wealthy politicians/voters).

But your area sounds different. I'd be very tempted to give it a go, with a property management company (that hopefully isn't screwing you over--easier said that done, I'm sure). My only hesitation is that if house prices drop in your area, I bet late payments/evictions would rise significantly, on the (possibly unfair) assumption that people renting units that would be cheaper to own have very little slack in their budgets.

Maybe wait for a drop and then give it a try? Assuming the area won't empty out due to climate change or big employers leaving, etc.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2022, 11:22:45 AM by less4success »

ChpBstrd

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Re: Needed: List of ideas to escape one's job even though not FI
« Reply #28 on: August 15, 2022, 03:01:34 PM »
Is there any chance your good corporate gig would allow you to go part-time? 

I'm not aware of any PTers in my profession, or my company.

I come across similar questions or ideas floated to me from friends that also want to speed things up.  The trends I usually notice are:

1.  They are usually just other jobs, usually less efficient ones.  That will eat up time, or mental energy.
2.  They take capital that is diversified into many baskets and puts in into a less diverse basket of higher risk.

Yea I've noticed those same trends. Part of the reason I'm reluctant to become a landlord is because most of the small-time landlords I've met are actually handymen who want to be their own boss or can't be employed in construction trades for some reason. So my market competition would be people who do DIY jobs all day because they don't work well with others. That relates to #1 in the sense that I may be overqualified to unclog sewer lines and rip out carpet for a living. If I hire out this kind of work, I'm at a financial disadvantage to my competitors.

Regarding #2, this is a major issue for landlords because one tenant with a cigar habit, 12 secret cats, or a habit of passing out drunk falling asleep in the tub while the water runs can cost tens of thousands of dollars in repairs or knock a building off the market for several months at a time. The zig-zags of the stock market are tame by comparison to mold, squatters, filth, insects, and meth labs.
#2 is a big concern

Disclaimer: I don't rent out any property, and I have no experience renting out property.

Renting out units in a small geographic area is definitely a higher variance activity (than index funds), but you're in the (fairly unique, based on what I've read on this forum) position of being close to properties that meet the 1% rule. That seems like a huge advantage, compared to all the landlords I personally know in real life.

I doubt I'd have the stomach for managing rentals, but where I live most rentals would be cash flow negative and you're just speculating on appreciation. Honestly, I don't know why so many people do this around here (other than all the silly tax benefits that probably won't go away since they probably benefit wealthy politicians/voters).

But your area sounds different. I'd be very tempted to give it a go, with a property management company (that hopefully isn't screwing you over--easier said that done, I'm sure). My only hesitation is that if house prices drop in your area, I bet late payments/evictions would rise significantly, on the (possibly unfair) assumption that people renting units that would be cheaper to own have very little slack in their budgets.

Maybe wait for a drop and then give it a try? Assuming the area won't empty out due to climate change or big employers leaving, etc.

Yea, in my deep south area housing prices were relatively unaffected by the 2008 "housing crash" (-4.5% at the worst, according to stats). The unemployment rate peaked two percent lower than the national rate, and remains lower than the national rate. The economy is highly diversified, though a bit reliant on cheap low-skilled labor industries, and there is zero risk from the ocean. Hot summers are becoming a bigger problem but so far we've had nothing like a water shortage, massive fires, etc. like some places are experiencing.

This housing bubble seems to be different. Home prices have gone up almost 20% in the past 12 months, and now look positively expensive for an area that in Monopoly terms is Baltic Avenue and in economic slang is "minimum wage country". Real median household incomes are 25% lower here than the national average, and there is little reason to think rent increases should keep up with national averages.