The Money Mustache Community

Learning, Sharing, and Teaching => Ask a Mustachian => Topic started by: MrsSpendyPants on April 25, 2020, 07:59:38 PM

Title: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: MrsSpendyPants on April 25, 2020, 07:59:38 PM
Ah, tried on some work clothes today and realized I had gained a ton of weight during quarantine - 17lbs!  I cannot buy a new professional wardrobe plus I'm partially in sales so I need to get back to my old weight asap.  What is the best way to lose a minimum of ten pounds by the end of May?  I've been trying the eat once a day fasting for the last week and don't seem to be budging.  30 year old female.

Things I can't do:
-Can't eat a lot of fresh things since we only grocery shop once a month during the quarantine.  We do have frozen vegetables though.
-I have absolutely no time for exercise as I am working full time but I walk around my twenty acres for at least an hour chasing my toddler around.  I'm pretty winded after having to carry him around up hills when he gets tired.
-I can't do something not feasible like not eating for multiple days in a row.

Things I can do:
-I can do keto/intermittent fasting/eat a low variety of diet.  I can do anything needed for a month to lose the weight and then hopefully by then we're back at work and I can go back to my usual routine.  What is the healthiest and most efficient way to get this goal accomplished?
-I have a lot of frozen chicken and meat and we have chickens/ducks so lots of eggs available.
-My choice of liquid is green tea with stevia so I don't drink any calories.

Suggestions?  Help?

Thank you!
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: GuitarStv on April 25, 2020, 08:53:30 PM
Go for bike rides.


In the summer I ride 3-400 km a week and struggle to keep weight on and pretty much eat as much as I want of whatever I want.
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: SunnyDays on April 25, 2020, 09:20:12 PM
Eating only one meal a day is not the best approach, because your metabolism actually increases when you eat, plus you want to keep your blood sugar stable.  So, 3 smaller meals per day is better.  Eat high protein, with low glycemic veggies (look it up if you don't know what these are) and only small amounts of complex carbs.  No fruit (too much sugar), and nothing sweet, even stevia, because your body can mistake it for sugar and produce insulin to deal with it, which creates weight gain and hunger.  Don't eat in the evening.  Limit yourself to 1200 - 1500 calories per day. Exercise as much as you can.  Depending on your current weight, you should be able to lose 1 - 2 pounds per week.  Losing more than that, unless you're seriously overweight, isn't really healthy.  Good luck.
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: Villanelle on April 25, 2020, 10:11:50 PM
10 pounds in a month is a lot, especially if you are not overweight.  You might consider also purchasing some Spanx (or cheaper offbrand) which can help your clothes fit slightly better while you continue to get the weight off. Or buy one pair of inexpensive generic black pants that fit you, and wear those nearly every day to buy yourself another 2-3 weeks.  (and likely some of your current clothes fit better than others, if only due to stretch of cut, so try on everything and note the few pieces that you can make best work.)  That's not to say you shouldn't try to lose the weight, but it might prevent you from doing it in such a dramatic and maybe unhealthy (and certainly uncomfortable) way.  10 pounds in 2 months is assertive but reasonable. 

That said, you can set a very low calorie intake, which is easier to do if you eat foos with lower calories per density.  IOW, something that fills your stomach's volume with not many calories.  Most vegetables are going to be good for this (not not as much sweeter things like corn and carrots).  Canned green beans come to mind.  And running around after a toddler isn't really burning enough calories to make much of a difference at all.  Exercise is great for getting healthy, but not a great way to lose weight.  You can try to put more movement into that hour, but this isn't going to be where the bulk of that loss comes from, especially since it sounds like you can just do full on exercise for that hour.

If you are truly determined to try to lose 10 pounds in a month--which again may not be likely, especially healthy, or sustainable, basically, you'll need to slash drastically what you eat.  And the fact that you can't fall to fresh leafy greens isn't going to help.  I'd aim for 1200 calories a day as a max. 
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: 2Birds1Stone on April 26, 2020, 12:12:27 AM
Easy come, easy go.

The good news is, if you gained 17 lbs in the past 6 weeks or so, it's more than likely that not all of this is fat. A lb of fat requires roughly 3,500 surplus calories in your diet over a period of time (not that simple, but dumbing this down for illustration). In order to gain 17 lbs of fat you would have had to stuff a surplus of ~60,000 calories down your gullet during quarantine.

If you did, then congratulations! That's quite an accomplishment and "I don't have time for ANY exercise" will not be the mindset that reverses course.

If you didn't consume a surplus of 60,000 calories then there is a good chance that some of that weight is excess glycogen, inflammation, and water (which binds to excess carbs/salt), and some of this weight will come off rather quickly, making your goal of 10 lbs very possible with 5 weeks to do it.

I would roughly track your caloric intake and restrict it to 10-12x body weight (in lbs) to start. So if you're 150 lbs  1,500-1,800 calories would be a good start. Try to consume unrefined food that's higher in protein, fiber, and healthy fats. Avoid junk that's loaded with added salts, sugar, etc. This will help you from getting hungry and reverse any addiction to sugar/salt/fat you may have developed during this difficult period of life.

Additionally, exercise will help a LOT. Your health is wealth, and if you gain another 17 lbs that could be more dangerous than what you're trying to avoid by quarantining yourself. I don't buy that you have absolutely no time for exercise. There are ~120 waking hours in a week, spend 2 of them exercising, it will help with both the weight as well as your mental and otherwise physical health.

Good luck!
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: Malcat on April 26, 2020, 06:07:37 AM
As someone who had lost a lot of weight, it's usually best to start with the very very basics, and it's very similar to managing your finances: track your calorie consumption, and then make a calorie "budget", meaning that you calculate how many calories you can afford to eat in order to reach a certain weight loss goal by a certain point.

One of the most proven and effective diet approaches is simply logging what you are eating in an accurate way. The same way tracking your spending opens your eyes and makes you cognizant of what you are doing each day.

The more drastic you go, the more likely your plan will fail. Start with baby steps, get the basics under your belt, and then tweak from there based on how you respond.

Some people do well with skipping meals, some people do well with eating lots of small meals, some people do well cutting carbs, some people do well cutting animal products, some people do well not cutting anything but aiming for moderation, some people do well focusing on exercise, while others do well just focusing on diet.

As was noted already though, if you've been eating poorly, chances are you'll get a quick ~5-10lb bonus loss of reducing bloating right away. This is nice, but it often works against people as they get discouraged when the losses rapidly slow down and they think their approach has "plateaued" or has stopped working.
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: rothwem on April 26, 2020, 06:34:05 AM
10 pounds in a month is a lot...

I’ll echo this. You might want to adjust your expectations a little bit. People that lose more than a pound or two a week will likely end up yo-yo-ing unless they’re super overweight.

I’m not a dietitian, so I won’t try to tell you how to eat to lose the weight. There’s so many different strategies out there for dropping weight, but I think something important is to focus on your health rather than the weight. Your weight will improve when your health improves.  I think that trying to fit to a certain size is going to sabotage you hard.

So yeah, expectations.
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: Malcat on April 26, 2020, 06:49:14 AM
10lbs may be a lot, it may not be.

It depends on how much of the weight is bloat. It's pretty wild how much some people, especially women, can puff up like puffer fish when their diet is not great for awhile.

But yeah, it is very important to grasp the magnitude of what 10lbs of fat loss in one month looks like. That would require a calorie deficit of over 1100 calories every single day.

That's pretty doable if the person is extremely large, but not at all doable for a medium sized person who probably only burns 2000 calories a day, and needs a minimum of 1200-1400 to function.

When I was obese, I could lose 5-10lbs just by contemplating it, now that I've been lean for a long time, 10lbs would probably take me upwards of a year.
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: Loretta on April 26, 2020, 08:39:23 AM
Use fitness pal.com to log everything you eat, everything.  Set a weight loss goal in fitnesspal and it will tell you how many calories to consume to get there.  It’s free to use.  More protein and fat will fill you up and maybe make you feel better overall.  More physical activity could help you feel better but it takes awhile.  I’m all for an enthusiastic Dance Party in my livingroom, for example. 
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: seemsright on April 26, 2020, 08:59:30 AM
I am up in weight too. My best suggestion is to not add the must lose 10 pounds to the todo list as it will make your stress level go up even more.

I know my patterns. Life gets stressful, my stress management tools get taken away (the gym, my dance class, my trainer) I go into a deep hole. It has been bad. To combat this cutting my calories is not a answer. I am instead journaling more,  drinking more water, more tea and trying to do more yoga. A long walk yesterday (walked a half marathon) was the best way to burn off all of that stressful energy.

Stress can make my weight jump 10-20 pounds easy. It is like my body goes into a reserve all things mode. I know that I have not been eating the calories to cause that...yes there has been more junk but not that kind of junk. This is the body trying to protect itself.

My suggestions yoga, and meditation.
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: OtherJen on April 26, 2020, 10:22:52 AM
10lbs may be a lot, it may not be.

It depends on how much of the weight is bloat. It's pretty wild how much some people, especially women, can puff up like puffer fish when their diet is not great for awhile.

Good point. A diet that is lacking in fresh foods is probably also high in sugar and salt, and both can cause water retention and bloating. Often, the first few pounds that come off during a diet are water weight.
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: 2Birds1Stone on April 26, 2020, 11:54:35 AM
Echo echo ;)
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: wenchsenior on April 26, 2020, 12:31:55 PM
Eating only one meal a day is not the best approach, because your metabolism actually increases when you eat, plus you want to keep your blood sugar stable.  So, 3 smaller meals per day is better.  Eat high protein, with low glycemic veggies (look it up if you don't know what these are) and only small amounts of complex carbs.  No fruit (too much sugar), and nothing sweet, even stevia, because your body can mistake it for sugar and produce insulin to deal with it, which creates weight gain and hunger.  Don't eat in the evening.  Limit yourself to 1200 - 1500 calories per day. Exercise as much as you can.  Depending on your current weight, you should be able to lose 1 - 2 pounds per week.  Losing more than that, unless you're seriously overweight, isn't really healthy.  Good luck.

Agree. ETA: except I wouldn't focus on reducing calories quite that much, for health reasons.  Of course, reducing calories less makes you lose weight more slowly, but IMO it's better to shift back to sustainable eating patterns (less processed food, less sugar, etc) and make the weight loss permanent than to try to rush the loss with unsustainable eating patterns.  Having said this, when I slightly increase exercise (esp any kind of interval exercise) and cut high-glycemic food, weight drops off me frighteningly fast. 
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: iris lily on April 26, 2020, 12:48:02 PM
You are home and can run to the bathroom every hour.  So, drink tons of water. It truly helps.
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: BPA on April 26, 2020, 12:57:33 PM
I second myfitnesspal.com.
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: red_pill on April 26, 2020, 02:40:57 PM
1. Track everything you eat on myfitnesspal app.  Everything

2. Do not eat between dinner in breakfast. No more evening snacks.

3. Zero sugar or alcohol. Zero

4. Breakfast is protein and fats. Eggs and nuts. No carbs until lunch.

5.  Exercise.  Your “I have no time” is total BS.  Running around after a toddler is activity, not exercise and don’t pretend it is.  I suspect you are applying this excuse based mentality to your eating habits as well.  That said, it is possible to diet yourself around a lack of exercise. It isn’t ideal, but it is possible.

6. Your once a month grocery trip is probably a bit on the paranoid side. Wear a mask and gloves and wash your hands.



Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: GreenQueen on April 26, 2020, 02:47:04 PM
MY SO lost 15 lbs in his first month of intermittent fasting without any other major adjustments. He does a moderate elliptical run1-3 times per week. He stopped eating between 4pm and 8am. His energy level went up a ton too! Make sure to drink enough water no matter what you do and good luck!
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: Malcat on April 26, 2020, 04:10:48 PM
Eating only one meal a day is not the best approach, because your metabolism actually increases when you eat, plus you want to keep your blood sugar stable.  So, 3 smaller meals per day is better.  Eat high protein, with low glycemic veggies (look it up if you don't know what these are) and only small amounts of complex carbs.  No fruit (too much sugar), and nothing sweet, even stevia, because your body can mistake it for sugar and produce insulin to deal with it, which creates weight gain and hunger.  Don't eat in the evening.  Limit yourself to 1200 - 1500 calories per day. Exercise as much as you can.  Depending on your current weight, you should be able to lose 1 - 2 pounds per week.  Losing more than that, unless you're seriously overweight, isn't really healthy.  Good luck.

Agree. ETA: except I wouldn't focus on reducing calories quite that much, for health reasons.  Of course, reducing calories less makes you lose weight more slowly, but IMO it's better to shift back to sustainable eating patterns (less processed food, less sugar, etc) and make the weight loss permanent than to try to rush the loss with unsustainable eating patterns.  Having said this, when I slightly increase exercise (esp any kind of interval exercise) and cut high-glycemic food, weight drops off me frighteningly fast.

Depends on the person. I routinely eat under 1200-1500 calories in any given day, that sustains me at a BMI of 19-20.
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: pecunia on April 26, 2020, 06:00:45 PM
The black cat is absolutely correct.  Metabolism is different for everyone.  I don't eat lunch.  I don't need it.  My co-worker has to nibble mid morning, eat lunch, snack in the afternoon and eat an evening meal.  If I ate like that, I'd quickly gain weight. 
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: SotI on April 26, 2020, 08:44:28 PM
Don't have any advise to add, just wanted to say how timely this thread is. I just had the same realization this weekend.
So, I am feeling you, MrsSpendyPants.

Good luck with it! I will also follow some of the suggestions here (and yes, I can puff up substantially on carbs, so going low glycemic foods makes a lot of sense here).
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: Malcat on April 27, 2020, 05:31:24 AM
The black cat is absolutely correct.  Metabolism is different for everyone.  I don't eat lunch.  I don't need it.  My co-worker has to nibble mid morning, eat lunch, snack in the afternoon and eat an evening meal.  If I ate like that, I'd quickly gain weight.

Yep, everyone is different and each person really does need to learn how their own body works. DH does well with IF, meanwhile I'm not safe to drive if I skip meals. DH is also a snacker, I never snack. My BFF always goes to paleo when she needs to lose weight, meanwhile carb heavy vegetarian works well for me, but so did an unintentional keto diet I used to have, as did eating crap years ago, but closely monitoring calories. Well...the last one technically "worked" in that I lost weight, but I felt like garbage, was always starving, and gained back everything I lost plus extra.

It is pretty universal though that the faster one tries to lose weight, the more likely the whole endeavor is to fail (and result in regain). So as someone who has gone from obese to lean, my only specific piece of advice is to not put a deadline on it, especially not an unrealistic one.
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: Car Jack on April 27, 2020, 06:43:09 AM
Have small meals 3 times a day.  Plan them.  Limit, but don't eliminate carbs.  Don't fast.  Your body shuts down and saves the fat when you do that.  Just stop it.

Your phone likely has a number of steps function.  My iPhone has it in "health".  It's always on because the Apple mother ship collects data on everyone whether you give them permission or not.  Don't set a goal for number of steps beyond "more than yesterday".  So don't start with a 20k step target because it won't work.  If you did 5000 steps yesterday (history is in your phone), then do 5001.  Keep that up.

As mentioned, drink lots of water.  Especially between meals, but really all the time.  It makes you feel full, so you don't eat when you don't need more. 

I've lost 40 pounds in 6 months.  The first 10 is not difficult.  Continuing to lose and keep it off is what's hard.  To the above, I changed my diet to add salads before all meals (I hate vegetables) which helps fill me up.  And of course, water.  I was in a job where lots of co-workers biked at lunch, so I'd be out with the mountain bikers a few days a week and with the tri-athletes on road bikes the other 2 days.  If you do that, do it in addition to the walking.  Start very easy.  Like a mile on level roads and up it from there as you can.

You say you don't have time to exercise.  If that's really true, you're destined to gain more.  As you get older, it gets harder to lose or maintain.  There's no magic, easy way to lose weight.  Any "system" that says they're easy is a scam.
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: GuitarStv on April 27, 2020, 08:18:34 AM
Metabolism is different for everyone.  I don't eat lunch.  I don't need it.  My co-worker has to nibble mid morning, eat lunch, snack in the afternoon and eat an evening meal.  If I ate like that, I'd quickly gain weight.

Mini-rant here.

Metabolism really just a way of saying 'the calories your body burns'.  If you carry more muscle on your frame, you will burn more calories even when at rest.  If you exercise you will burn more calories.  If you are regularly in a cold environment your body will burn more calories.  If you are bigger, you will burn more calories simply because of your size (more energy required to pump blood/oxygenate body).  Some people have little nervous tics/habits that add up to burn more calories in a day.

When you're younger, you burn a lot of calories as your body grows and develops.  Most kids are significantly more active than adults.  Usually some time around the late 20s - mid 30s people stop exercising.  This comes with a loss of muscle mass . . . and an increase in fat.  Because fat doesn't burn as many calories just doing nothing . . . it seems like metabolism has just slowed down because of age.  In reality it's just your sedentary life catching up to you.

If you see someone eating more than you and not gaining weight, it's because they're burning more calories.  Not because a magical metabolism fairy has wished away the fat.  If you want to have a higher metabolism, gain muscle mass and do cardio.  It's that simple.
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: ender on April 27, 2020, 09:06:24 AM
Metabolism is different for everyone.  I don't eat lunch.  I don't need it.  My co-worker has to nibble mid morning, eat lunch, snack in the afternoon and eat an evening meal.  If I ate like that, I'd quickly gain weight.

Mini-rant here.

Metabolism really just a way of saying 'the calories your body burns'.  If you carry more muscle on your frame, you will burn more calories even when at rest.  If you exercise you will burn more calories.  If you are regularly in a cold environment your body will burn more calories.  If you are bigger, you will burn more calories simply because of your size (more energy required to pump blood/oxygenate body).  Some people have little nervous tics/habits that add up to burn more calories in a day.

When you're younger, you burn a lot of calories as your body grows and develops.  Most kids are significantly more active than adults.  Usually some time around the late 20s - mid 30s people stop exercising.  This comes with a loss of muscle mass . . . and an increase in fat.  Because fat doesn't burn as many calories just doing nothing . . . it seems like metabolism has just slowed down because of age.  In reality it's just your sedentary life catching up to you.

If you see someone eating more than you and not gaining weight, it's because they're burning more calories.  Not because a magical metabolism fairy has wished away the fat.  If you want to have a higher metabolism, gain muscle mass and do cardio.  It's that simple.

This is pretty much in the face of a ton of research about how metabolism works.

Are you saying that the only thing that impacts weight loss is activity? And that 100% of people will experience the same weight loss with the same lifestyle/calorie consumption, regardless of genetics?

What you are saying is the controllable factor. But to imply metabolism is entirely non-genetic is... well, not really supported by any research.
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: FIRE 20/20 on April 27, 2020, 09:41:11 AM
Metabolism is different for everyone.  I don't eat lunch.  I don't need it.  My co-worker has to nibble mid morning, eat lunch, snack in the afternoon and eat an evening meal.  If I ate like that, I'd quickly gain weight.

Mini-rant here.

Metabolism really just a way of saying 'the calories your body burns'.  If you carry more muscle on your frame, you will burn more calories even when at rest.  If you exercise you will burn more calories.  If you are regularly in a cold environment your body will burn more calories.  If you are bigger, you will burn more calories simply because of your size (more energy required to pump blood/oxygenate body).  Some people have little nervous tics/habits that add up to burn more calories in a day.

When you're younger, you burn a lot of calories as your body grows and develops.  Most kids are significantly more active than adults.  Usually some time around the late 20s - mid 30s people stop exercising.  This comes with a loss of muscle mass . . . and an increase in fat.  Because fat doesn't burn as many calories just doing nothing . . . it seems like metabolism has just slowed down because of age.  In reality it's just your sedentary life catching up to you.

If you see someone eating more than you and not gaining weight, it's because they're burning more calories.  Not because a magical metabolism fairy has wished away the fat.  If you want to have a higher metabolism, gain muscle mass and do cardio.  It's that simple.

This is pretty much in the face of a ton of research about how metabolism works.

Are you saying that the only thing that impacts weight loss is activity? And that 100% of people will experience the same weight loss with the same lifestyle/calorie consumption, regardless of genetics?

What you are saying is the controllable factor. But to imply metabolism is entirely non-genetic is... well, not really supported by any research.

Agreed.  These misconceptions have been thoroughly debunked.  Two people can have the same body composition (muscle/fat ratios) and activity levels but gain or lose different amounts of weight even eating exactly the same food. 

Here's just one of a bazillion links on the subject:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK154098/
From the article:  "...the most interesting finding of the study was that conventionally raised mice had more body fat even though they were consuming fewer calories. This was true for both female and male mice and across multiple genetic backgrounds."

To the OP - I would suggest reconsidering the "no exercise" rule.  Weight lifting can reshape your body really quickly, and contrary to most views women aren't likely to significantly bulk up even if they do a *lot* of weight training.  Rather, weight training will tend to have a toning and slimming effect unless it's taken to extremes for the vast majority of women.  If I wanted to try to transform my body shape in 4 weeks I'd do most of what's already been suggested - zero alcohol, zero extra sugar or fake sweeteners, but add plenty of weight lifting. 
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: Wolfpack Mustachian on April 27, 2020, 09:52:50 AM
Metabolism is different for everyone.  I don't eat lunch.  I don't need it.  My co-worker has to nibble mid morning, eat lunch, snack in the afternoon and eat an evening meal.  If I ate like that, I'd quickly gain weight.

Mini-rant here.

Metabolism really just a way of saying 'the calories your body burns'.  If you carry more muscle on your frame, you will burn more calories even when at rest.  If you exercise you will burn more calories.  If you are regularly in a cold environment your body will burn more calories.  If you are bigger, you will burn more calories simply because of your size (more energy required to pump blood/oxygenate body).  Some people have little nervous tics/habits that add up to burn more calories in a day.

When you're younger, you burn a lot of calories as your body grows and develops.  Most kids are significantly more active than adults.  Usually some time around the late 20s - mid 30s people stop exercising.  This comes with a loss of muscle mass . . . and an increase in fat.  Because fat doesn't burn as many calories just doing nothing . . . it seems like metabolism has just slowed down because of age.  In reality it's just your sedentary life catching up to you.

If you see someone eating more than you and not gaining weight, it's because they're burning more calories.  Not because a magical metabolism fairy has wished away the fat.  If you want to have a higher metabolism, gain muscle mass and do cardio.  It's that simple.

This is pretty much in the face of a ton of research about how metabolism works.

Are you saying that the only thing that impacts weight loss is activity? And that 100% of people will experience the same weight loss with the same lifestyle/calorie consumption, regardless of genetics?

What you are saying is the controllable factor. But to imply metabolism is entirely non-genetic is... well, not really supported by any research.

Agreed.  These misconceptions have been thoroughly debunked.  Two people can have the same body composition (muscle/fat ratios) and activity levels but gain or lose different amounts of weight even eating exactly the same food. 

Here's just one of a bazillion links on the subject:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK154098/
From the article:  "...the most interesting finding of the study was that conventionally raised mice had more body fat even though they were consuming fewer calories. This was true for both female and male mice and across multiple genetic backgrounds."

To the OP - I would suggest reconsidering the "no exercise" rule.  Weight lifting can reshape your body really quickly, and contrary to most views women aren't likely to significantly bulk up even if they do a *lot* of weight training.  Rather, weight training will tend to have a toning and slimming effect unless it's taken to extremes for the vast majority of women.  If I wanted to try to transform my body shape in 4 weeks I'd do most of what's already been suggested - zero alcohol, zero extra sugar or fake sweeteners, but add plenty of weight lifting.

Even with varied metabolism (i.e. discounting his last paragraph), this is not to say that you can't lose weight by eating less if you eat enough less. In general, there can be varied metabolisms out there, and some people might be "lucky" in our current environment where calories aren't really an issue to procure and have higher metabolism, but the advice above is sound. Exercise to burn more calories and create a body that in general keeps burning more calories with the additional idea, of course, to eat less to take in less calories - it will result in losing weight. There are of course, though, psychological factors contributing to your ability to maintain it, and you can, of course, have underlying conditions that make calorie reduction problematic for a variety of reasons.
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: GuitarStv on April 27, 2020, 10:11:42 AM
Metabolism is different for everyone.  I don't eat lunch.  I don't need it.  My co-worker has to nibble mid morning, eat lunch, snack in the afternoon and eat an evening meal.  If I ate like that, I'd quickly gain weight.

Mini-rant here.

Metabolism really just a way of saying 'the calories your body burns'.  If you carry more muscle on your frame, you will burn more calories even when at rest.  If you exercise you will burn more calories.  If you are regularly in a cold environment your body will burn more calories.  If you are bigger, you will burn more calories simply because of your size (more energy required to pump blood/oxygenate body).  Some people have little nervous tics/habits that add up to burn more calories in a day.

When you're younger, you burn a lot of calories as your body grows and develops.  Most kids are significantly more active than adults.  Usually some time around the late 20s - mid 30s people stop exercising.  This comes with a loss of muscle mass . . . and an increase in fat.  Because fat doesn't burn as many calories just doing nothing . . . it seems like metabolism has just slowed down because of age.  In reality it's just your sedentary life catching up to you.

If you see someone eating more than you and not gaining weight, it's because they're burning more calories.  Not because a magical metabolism fairy has wished away the fat.  If you want to have a higher metabolism, gain muscle mass and do cardio.  It's that simple.

This is pretty much in the face of a ton of research about how metabolism works.

Are you saying that the only thing that impacts weight loss is activity?

No, not at all.  That's why I mentioned five different factors that change your metabolism.  Exercise is one of them though.


And that 100% of people will experience the same weight loss with the same lifestyle/calorie consumption, regardless of genetics?

No, there are certainly some small differences that genetics play as well.  People have certain genetic predispositions towards the type of muscle fibers that they carry on their frame and my understanding is that the type of muscle fiber actually burns calories at slightly different rates.  The folks who have more fast twitch muscle fibers tend to be better at weight training type exercises and therefore can put on more muscle more easily . . . which will increase their metabolism.

But if you're asking me if two people of the same weight, height, ratio of muscle/body fat, exercise level and choice . . . then yeah . . . they're likely going to have very similar metabolisms regardless of genetic background.


What you are saying is the controllable factor. But to imply metabolism is entirely non-genetic is... well, not really supported by any research.

Metabolism isn't really genetic, but genetics control how your body will respond to training (and how you metabolize certain foods - although much that I've read in this area still seems to be pretty hand-wavey).  So for example one person might do better with a weight training regimen rather than an aerobic one for genetic reasons, so success in burning calories might be best achieved in a different way for different people.  A 6' person who weights 200 lbs can eat more to maintain that weight than a 5' person who's 100 lbs simply because more flesh requires more fuel - and genetics control your height/frame size.
 
But that's very roundabout.  There's no 'slow metabolism' gene.
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: 2Birds1Stone on April 27, 2020, 10:19:57 AM
A ton of things can impact your metabolism though, and some of the less obvious ones include hormone levels, prior diet (spending too much time in a deep caloric deficit can inhibit base metabolic rate quite a bit ( @Malkynn made a point about how she maintains her weight on 1200-1500 calories a day) which could be her "normal" or the result of having lost a ton of weight and spending prolonged times in a deficit.

You can build your base metabolic rate back up, and adding lean body mass is certainly one way. You can also do it through the strategic manipulation of calories and macro/micronutrients.

As a coach I had clients come to me over the years who were prepping for a physique competition and at a point where they already stalled on weight loss consuming <1000 calories/day. It was necessary to get metabolic activity back to healthy levels before resuming a caloric deficit and attempting to reach low bodyfat levels.

I've personally lost 120+ lbs in my life at one point, competed in 9 drug free physique competitions over a period of 6 years, and coached over 100 athletes and "gen poppers" for various sport/physique competitions. Learned a ton along the way.

One of the biggest mistake people make, is following advice from everyone.

There is sound advice above, but you can't follow *all of it*......
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: MilesTeg on April 27, 2020, 10:29:11 AM
Ah, tried on some work clothes today and realized I had gained a ton of weight during quarantine - 17lbs!  I cannot buy a new professional wardrobe plus I'm partially in sales so I need to get back to my old weight asap.  What is the best way to lose a minimum of ten pounds by the end of May?  I've been trying the eat once a day fasting for the last week and don't seem to be budging.  30 year old female.

Things I can't do:
-Can't eat a lot of fresh things since we only grocery shop once a month during the quarantine.  We do have frozen vegetables though.
-I have absolutely no time for exercise as I am working full time but I walk around my twenty acres for at least an hour chasing my toddler around.  I'm pretty winded after having to carry him around up hills when he gets tired.
-I can't do something not feasible like not eating for multiple days in a row.

Things I can do:
-I can do keto/intermittent fasting/eat a low variety of diet.  I can do anything needed for a month to lose the weight and then hopefully by then we're back at work and I can go back to my usual routine.  What is the healthiest and most efficient way to get this goal accomplished?
-I have a lot of frozen chicken and meat and we have chickens/ducks so lots of eggs available.
-My choice of liquid is green tea with stevia so I don't drink any calories.

Suggestions?  Help?

Thank you!

It's always, always, always about net caloric intake. Don't buy into fad diets they are all crazy. To lose that much weight in a month you need a 1250 Calorie a day deficit. That's pretty hard to maintain unless you are a huge person.

The most popular fad diet right now seems to be "keto". Keto diets "work" because they keep you from eating simple carbs (refined sugars) which are extremely calorie dense and don't fill you up so you eat more. You don't need to go keto crazy to avoid refined sugars and processed/refined foods. You just.. avoid sugars and processed/refined and only eat healthy complex carbs and plant based sugars (fruits, veggies, whole grains, legumes, etc.)

Eat balanced meals, get moderate exercise at least 30 minutes a day. Balanced means about 40-50% from carbs (complex carbs not refined sugars) about 30-40% from protein (preferably plant sources, so legumes, etc.), and about 20% from healthy fats (anything other than saturated and trans fat).

Make sure you include high fiber foods. Fiber provides no Calories but fills you up. Fiber is the real "wonder food". In addition to filling you up helping you eat less, it absorbs bad things in your food like cholesterol. Just.. ramp up slowly or you will have tummy troubles, hah.
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: Wolfpack Mustachian on April 27, 2020, 10:50:41 AM
A ton of things can impact your metabolism though, and some of the less obvious ones include hormone levels, prior diet (spending too much time in a deep caloric deficit can inhibit base metabolic rate quite a bit ( @Malkynn made a point about how she maintains her weight on 1200-1500 calories a day) which could be her "normal" or the result of having lost a ton of weight and spending prolonged times in a deficit.

You can build your base metabolic rate back up, and adding lean body mass is certainly one way. You can also do it through the strategic manipulation of calories and macro/micronutrients.

As a coach I had clients come to me over the years who were prepping for a physique competition and at a point where they already stalled on weight loss consuming <1000 calories/day. It was necessary to get metabolic activity back to healthy levels before resuming a caloric deficit and attempting to reach low bodyfat levels.

I've personally lost 120+ lbs in my life at one point, competed in 9 drug free physique competitions over a period of 6 years, and coached over 100 athletes and "gen poppers" for various sport/physique competitions. Learned a ton along the way.

One of the biggest mistake people make, is following advice from everyone.

There is sound advice above, but you can't follow *all of it*......

I just want to clarify, I'm assuming these people that were eating less than 1000 calories a day and weren't achieving weight loss were not in the obese/overweight category? This was to attain something specific to the physique competition you were talking about? It's very hard to wrap my mind around anyone truly eating, say 800 calories a day and not losing weight if they were above a certain threshold.
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: FIRE 20/20 on April 27, 2020, 12:30:09 PM
A ton of things can impact your metabolism though, and some of the less obvious ones include hormone levels, prior diet (spending too much time in a deep caloric deficit can inhibit base metabolic rate quite a bit ( @Malkynn made a point about how she maintains her weight on 1200-1500 calories a day) which could be her "normal" or the result of having lost a ton of weight and spending prolonged times in a deficit.

You can build your base metabolic rate back up, and adding lean body mass is certainly one way. You can also do it through the strategic manipulation of calories and macro/micronutrients.

As a coach I had clients come to me over the years who were prepping for a physique competition and at a point where they already stalled on weight loss consuming <1000 calories/day. It was necessary to get metabolic activity back to healthy levels before resuming a caloric deficit and attempting to reach low bodyfat levels.

I've personally lost 120+ lbs in my life at one point, competed in 9 drug free physique competitions over a period of 6 years, and coached over 100 athletes and "gen poppers" for various sport/physique competitions. Learned a ton along the way.

One of the biggest mistake people make, is following advice from everyone.

There is sound advice above, but you can't follow *all of it*......

I just want to clarify, I'm assuming these people that were eating less than 1000 calories a day and weren't achieving weight loss were not in the obese/overweight category? This was to attain something specific to the physique competition you were talking about? It's very hard to wrap my mind around anyone truly eating, say 800 calories a day and not losing weight if they were above a certain threshold.

This is likely due to metabolic adaptation.  In essence, after losing a significant amount of weight the body significantly slows a person's resting metabolism.  As a result, even at extremely low calorie intake levels and/or high activity levels, the body is vastly more efficient at using calories to do work.  This effect can last for years.  There was an NIH study of "Biggest Loser" contentestants that showed that they burned about 500 calories a day fewer than could be explained by their body mass, age, activity, level, etc.  Even if they ate a low calorie diet and exercised, the body would hold onto any calories they ate. 

See this link for the study:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4989512/

"Weight loss is accompanied by a slowing of resting metabolic rate (RMR) that is often greater than would be expected based on the measured changes in body composition. This phenomenon is called “metabolic adaptation” or “adaptive thermogenesis” and acts to counter weight loss and is thought to contribute to weight regain"

"Mean RMR (resting metabolic rate) after 6 years was ~500 kcal/d lower than expected based on the measured body composition changes and the increased age of the subjects."
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: GuitarStv on April 27, 2020, 12:38:12 PM
A ton of things can impact your metabolism though, and some of the less obvious ones include hormone levels, prior diet (spending too much time in a deep caloric deficit can inhibit base metabolic rate quite a bit ( @Malkynn made a point about how she maintains her weight on 1200-1500 calories a day) which could be her "normal" or the result of having lost a ton of weight and spending prolonged times in a deficit.

You can build your base metabolic rate back up, and adding lean body mass is certainly one way. You can also do it through the strategic manipulation of calories and macro/micronutrients.

As a coach I had clients come to me over the years who were prepping for a physique competition and at a point where they already stalled on weight loss consuming <1000 calories/day. It was necessary to get metabolic activity back to healthy levels before resuming a caloric deficit and attempting to reach low bodyfat levels.

I've personally lost 120+ lbs in my life at one point, competed in 9 drug free physique competitions over a period of 6 years, and coached over 100 athletes and "gen poppers" for various sport/physique competitions. Learned a ton along the way.

One of the biggest mistake people make, is following advice from everyone.

There is sound advice above, but you can't follow *all of it*......

I just want to clarify, I'm assuming these people that were eating less than 1000 calories a day and weren't achieving weight loss were not in the obese/overweight category? This was to attain something specific to the physique competition you were talking about? It's very hard to wrap my mind around anyone truly eating, say 800 calories a day and not losing weight if they were above a certain threshold.

This is likely due to metabolic adaptation.  In essence, after losing a significant amount of weight the body significantly slows a person's resting metabolism.  As a result, even at extremely low calorie intake levels and/or high activity levels, the body is vastly more efficient at using calories to do work.  This effect can last for years.  There was an NIH study of "Biggest Loser" contentestants that showed that they burned about 500 calories a day fewer than could be explained by their body mass, age, activity, level, etc.  Even if they ate a low calorie diet and exercised, the body would hold onto any calories they ate. 

See this link for the study:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4989512/

"Weight loss is accompanied by a slowing of resting metabolic rate (RMR) that is often greater than would be expected based on the measured changes in body composition. This phenomenon is called “metabolic adaptation” or “adaptive thermogenesis” and acts to counter weight loss and is thought to contribute to weight regain"

"Mean RMR (resting metabolic rate) after 6 years was ~500 kcal/d lower than expected based on the measured body composition changes and the increased age of the subjects."

This is almost always directly related to loss of muscle mass.  Your BMR is heavily dependent upon the amount of it that you're carrying around.  When dieting (any sort of diet), muscle is usually the first thing to go . . . it's very hard to lose fat without losing a large amount of muscle along with it.  If a person leads a typical (predominantly sedentary) life, they will not regain the muscle that they lost - it's something that you must train (along with maintaining a caloric surplus) to get back.  I'm disappointed that the study talks about 'body composition' changes without looking at changes in muscle mass, I strongly suspect that this would have cleared this up.

This is one of the reasons that it's not a good idea to focus on the number of lbs you are, rather than focus on how you perform (what can you lift, how far can you run, etc.) as a measure of health.
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: mm1970 on April 27, 2020, 12:59:37 PM
As someone who had lost a lot of weight, it's usually best to start with the very very basics, and it's very similar to managing your finances: track your calorie consumption, and then make a calorie "budget", meaning that you calculate how many calories you can afford to eat in order to reach a certain weight loss goal by a certain point.

One of the most proven and effective diet approaches is simply logging what you are eating in an accurate way. The same way tracking your spending opens your eyes and makes you cognizant of what you are doing each day.

The more drastic you go, the more likely your plan will fail. Start with baby steps, get the basics under your belt, and then tweak from there based on how you respond.

Some people do well with skipping meals, some people do well with eating lots of small meals, some people do well cutting carbs, some people do well cutting animal products, some people do well not cutting anything but aiming for moderation, some people do well focusing on exercise, while others do well just focusing on diet.

As was noted already though, if you've been eating poorly, chances are you'll get a quick ~5-10lb bonus loss of reducing bloating right away. This is nice, but it often works against people as they get discouraged when the losses rapidly slow down and they think their approach has "plateaued" or has stopped working.
+1. 

In general, I do better when I buckle down and make a plan with rules and stick to it.  It totally depends on where I am in my life as to what works.  Not just time, amount of brain power, how many kids, how old are the kids, how old am I, how much work I am doing, etc. etc.

What I've done various times in the past to lose weight:
1.  Weight watchers.  Counting, basically, but less overall counting than calories.
2.  Counting calories.
3.  21 day fix.  Basically calorie counting, but less counting.
4.  Rules: a few times, when in weight loss mode, I gave up wine, wheat, sugar, and fried food for a month.  Every time, my weight loss went from 2 lb a month (I was close to goal) to 7 lbs in a month.  It's important to note that I didn't actually eat very much of any of those things.  Maybe a total of 3-4 servings a week of all combined.  (Now I realize that it was probably just the wheat, as I react badly to it.)

5.  Exercise - not necessarily to lose weight but to keep me motivated.  Probably the thing that I did once that was the best motivator was a pushup/squat/crunch/burpee challenge, over a single month.  It was short, and do-able, and the burpees revved me up.  Like, start with 10 and end at 50-100 of each.  I never worked out for more than 10 minutes at a time for this.  (I was doing other exercises though).
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: wenchsenior on April 27, 2020, 01:42:28 PM
The black cat is absolutely correct.  Metabolism is different for everyone.  I don't eat lunch.  I don't need it.  My co-worker has to nibble mid morning, eat lunch, snack in the afternoon and eat an evening meal.  If I ate like that, I'd quickly gain weight.

Yep, everyone is different and each person really does need to learn how their own body works. DH does well with IF, meanwhile I'm not safe to drive if I skip meals. DH is also a snacker, I never snack. My BFF always goes to paleo when she needs to lose weight, meanwhile carb heavy vegetarian works well for me, but so did an unintentional keto diet I used to have, as did eating crap years ago, but closely monitoring calories. Well...the last one technically "worked" in that I lost weight, but I felt like garbage, was always starving, and gained back everything I lost plus extra.

It is pretty universal though that the faster one tries to lose weight, the more likely the whole endeavor is to fail (and result in regain). So as someone who has gone from obese to lean, my only specific piece of advice is to not put a deadline on it, especially not an unrealistic one.

Agree with all of this. I've lost weight on keto/carb-heavy/eating like crap, too. Though the fastest and most effortless for me is low-glycemic for sure.  When I noted not cutting calories too much (above), I should have been more specific...I agree with your last sentence, and was concerned the OP might cut too many calories too quickly relative to her overall needs.  Each person's specific calorie needs certainly differ.
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: FIRE 20/20 on April 27, 2020, 02:42:10 PM
<Trimmed lots of quotes>

This is almost always directly related to loss of muscle mass.  Your BMR is heavily dependent upon the amount of it that you're carrying around.  When dieting (any sort of diet), muscle is usually the first thing to go . . . it's very hard to lose fat without losing a large amount of muscle along with it.  If a person leads a typical (predominantly sedentary) life, they will not regain the muscle that they lost - it's something that you must train (along with maintaining a caloric surplus) to get back.  I'm disappointed that the study talks about 'body composition' changes without looking at changes in muscle mass, I strongly suspect that this would have cleared this up.

This is one of the reasons that it's not a good idea to focus on the number of lbs you are, rather than focus on how you perform (what can you lift, how far can you run, etc.) as a measure of health.

The study looked at this and found the reduction in RMR was not due to loss of muscle mass.  See the sections on Body Weight and Composition, Total Energy Expenditure (TEE), and Resting metabolic rate and metabolic adaptation for details.  Again, from the paper:

"Weight loss results in a suppression of resting metabolic rate (RMR) that is often beyond what is expected due to changes in body composition – a phenomenon called “metabolic adaptation”."

Metabolic adaptation, microbiome composition, and genetics all play significant factors in resting metabolic rate.  All three have substantial evidence for their impact on how efficiently people's bodies use the calories they intake.  It is unquestionably true, based on an abundance of scientific research, that two otherwise identical people can have the same calorie intake and activity levels yet have very different weights.  That's not to say that intake and expenditure are unimportant - they absolutely are.  But simplistic (i.e. not including the above factors) "Calorie in / calorie out" models have been completely debunked. 

EDIT:  In case it isn't clear, when the paper talks about "body composition", it *is* talking about muscle mass, along with fat.  That's what they measured in the "Body Composition" section of the paper. 
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: koshtra on April 27, 2020, 03:06:04 PM
I lost 70 lbs three years ago, and have kept it off since. I dropped the weight at about a pound & a half per week, so it took me over a year. I did it by restricting calories, and being very draconian and persnickety about it. I am still very draconian and persnickety. It sucks, but being fat sucked more.

If you go the calorie-restriction route, my main two pieces of advice would be: 1) Track your eating *without changing it* for a few days to get a baseline measurement of how many calories you're eating now: it's probably much more than you think it is. And 2) be aware that what a bathroom scale tells you is maybe accurate within two pounds, and random variation of body weight (due to water-weight, etc., especially at first) adds another couple pounds' uncertainty.

People typically oversteer in response to random variations in the measurement of their weight, panicking or overindulging in response to illusory gains and losses. Really, losing weight is a pretty straightforward matter of eating less. But if your intake measurements are vague, and you're getting bogus information from your scales, you'll veer wildly from eating too little to eating too much, until eventually you end up in the ditch.

I think ten pounds in a month is wildly ambitious! I wouldn't be able to do it, but that doesn't mean you can't. Good luck!
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: Kem on April 27, 2020, 03:32:23 PM
I've lost just over 10# in the last month by:

Nutrition & Exercise

Tracking Micros (vitamins & minerals) and Macros (carb, fat, protein)
I log using MyFitnessPal & a $10 kitchen scale
For my current body composition/age/genetics 90 carbs, 40 g fat, 245 g protein --- and a LOT of water works well for cutting

For my exercise I am currently not lifting due to inadequate sleep with newborn.
I am
2 weekly taekwondo sessions (1 hour each, intense cardio)
Pushups, pullups, and air squats 3 days/week (20 minutes each)

I've dropped from 250# of sedentary fat to 165# lean (crossfit type exercises mostly)
Then built up to 215# and packed on a goodly amount of muscle (starting strength lifting mostly)
And now I'm leaning back out - I sit at 190#.

You'll want to be careful about cutting overly fast, and about cutting quickly without strength training habits in-place to offset the muscle loss.  It is REALLY easy to loose a handful of pounds only to gain waist size.
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: GuitarStv on April 27, 2020, 03:37:02 PM
<Trimmed lots of quotes>

This is almost always directly related to loss of muscle mass.  Your BMR is heavily dependent upon the amount of it that you're carrying around.  When dieting (any sort of diet), muscle is usually the first thing to go . . . it's very hard to lose fat without losing a large amount of muscle along with it.  If a person leads a typical (predominantly sedentary) life, they will not regain the muscle that they lost - it's something that you must train (along with maintaining a caloric surplus) to get back.  I'm disappointed that the study talks about 'body composition' changes without looking at changes in muscle mass, I strongly suspect that this would have cleared this up.

This is one of the reasons that it's not a good idea to focus on the number of lbs you are, rather than focus on how you perform (what can you lift, how far can you run, etc.) as a measure of health.

The study looked at this and found the reduction in RMR was not due to loss of muscle mass.  See the sections on Body Weight and Composition, Total Energy Expenditure (TEE), and Resting metabolic rate and metabolic adaptation for details.  Again, from the paper:

"Weight loss results in a suppression of resting metabolic rate (RMR) that is often beyond what is expected due to changes in body composition – a phenomenon called “metabolic adaptation”."

Metabolic adaptation, microbiome composition, and genetics all play significant factors in resting metabolic rate.  All three have substantial evidence for their impact on how efficiently people's bodies use the calories they intake.  It is unquestionably true, based on an abundance of scientific research, that two otherwise identical people can have the same calorie intake and activity levels yet have very different weights.  That's not to say that intake and expenditure are unimportant - they absolutely are.  But simplistic (i.e. not including the above factors) "Calorie in / calorie out" models have been completely debunked. 

EDIT:  In case it isn't clear, when the paper talks about "body composition", it *is* talking about muscle mass, along with fat.  That's what they measured in the "Body Composition" section of the paper.


The measurements done for 'body composition' only measured fat vs non-fat.  They didn't directly check changes in muscle mass.  I would be interested to see a similar study where this was done, because this study doesn't account for the non-calorie burning skeletal mass (extremely heavy loading of the skeleton in obese people actually builds much denser and thicker bones for example*, leading to greater weight) but in the study linked they use average numbers for their calculations of metabolic rate rather than taking this into account.  ( This was in the mathy bit - RMR(kcal/d) = 1001 + 21.2 × FFM(kg) + 1.4 × FM(kg)−7.1 × Age(y) + 276 × Sex )  I'd expect the participants to have lower than average lean muscle mass due to this alone - which would explain the baseline discrepancy observed.

I don't know if this mistake made by the testers is enough to invalidate the test, but as mentioned - I'd have preferred to see one where lean muscle mass was measured.



* https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25400253 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25400253)

"Obese adults have higher BMD, thicker and denser cortices, and higher trabecular number than normal adults. Greater differences between obese and normal adults in the older group suggest that obesity may protect against age-related bone loss and may increase peak bone mass."
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: FIRE 20/20 on April 27, 2020, 06:15:33 PM

The measurements done for 'body composition' only measured fat vs non-fat.  They didn't directly check changes in muscle mass.  I would be interested to see a similar study where this was done, because this study doesn't account for the non-calorie burning skeletal mass (extremely heavy loading of the skeleton in obese people actually builds much denser and thicker bones for example*, leading to greater weight) but in the study linked they use average numbers for their calculations of metabolic rate rather than taking this into account.  ( This was in the mathy bit - RMR(kcal/d) = 1001 + 21.2 × FFM(kg) + 1.4 × FM(kg)−7.1 × Age(y) + 276 × Sex )  I'd expect the participants to have lower than average lean muscle mass due to this alone - which would explain the baseline discrepancy observed.

I don't know if this mistake made by the testers is enough to invalidate the test, but as mentioned - I'd have preferred to see one where lean muscle mass was measured.



* https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25400253 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25400253)

"Obese adults have higher BMD, thicker and denser cortices, and higher trabecular number than normal adults. Greater differences between obese and normal adults in the older group suggest that obesity may protect against age-related bone loss and may increase peak bone mass."

Thanks for the link!  Based on the abstract I don't think it counteracts the vast literature that supports the conclusion that metabolic adaptation is a real phenomenon, but I haven't read the full paper yet.  I could post plenty of links to papers on the reality that metabolic adaptation exceeds what could be expected from muscle mass differences alone, but I think I've derailed the thread enough and they're simple to find for anyone who's interested. 
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: pecunia on April 28, 2020, 04:38:29 PM
How about the Ketosis thing?  Last year I was working with a guy who said, "Look at me.  I used to be a life guard."  I didn't think much of it.

This past Summer I ran into him.  He said he felt great.  He had a lot of energy.  It was a Tuesday and he said he hadn't eaten since the previous Saturday.  He had lost a lot of weight.  His body was burning its stored energy, i.e. fat.

In doing some reading, I learned that ketosis kicks in after 16 hours or so.  It varies with individuals.  The feeling of hunger will diminish and the energy that is spent on digestion is available to you.  Supposedly, you can actually gain energy.  I tried it for a couple of days and didn't really seem to feel weak or light headed, but temptation of good tasting food was too much.

It seems to make sense.  You store the energy as fat until you need it.  You never need it if you keep fueling the gas tank.  The reserve fuel is never needed.

Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: jamesbond007 on April 28, 2020, 05:01:56 PM
That's a lot of weight to lose in a month no matter which approach you take. Having said that, I was 186lbs around Christmas 2019. I started intermittent fasting (20:4) and didn't particularly watch my diet when I was eating. I am a vegetarian though so no meat. I got an RMR test and my BMR is 1550 calories. I started running in December and on March 15th ran my half marathon. I was running approximately 35-50 miles a week. I was always an avid cyclist so fitness was never an issue for me. I wanted to lose wight to become faster climbing hills. After my half marathon, I weighed 173 lbs. Then I switched to 16:8 and some days 18:6 intermittent fasting, still eating whatever I come across during the eating window. Never counted calories. Just made sure I burn at least 600 cal per exercise session. Now I ride my bike 100+ miles indoor on Zwift to keep it going. I have been able to maintain 173 lbs over the last month.

I am not recommending that it would work for you but just putting it out in front of you as an option.
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: JoJo on April 28, 2020, 05:03:39 PM
It's amazing you mention eggs.  I have unfortunately been a big yo-yoer but there is one diet that makes me lose weight like crazy yet not feel hungry, and it involves eating lots of eggs.

I called it the "3E diet" and wrote it all down here:     https://thehotflashpacker.com/the-3e-diet-weight-loss-for-travel/


I've lost 15 pounds since isolation started in March, and I had lost a bunch of weight before that too.  I'm super motivated to make 2020 the year I hit my goal, and then really work at maintaining it.
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: eyesonthehorizon on April 28, 2020, 11:17:14 PM
I'm going to echo the weightlifting suggestions based on the main goals I'm hearing:
This makes weightlifting ideal. We're in the same approximate demographic, though I haven't had kids; I had to do something similar a couple years ago. Walking is many kinds of beneficial, but unfortunately for your goals, is also what we evolved to do all day long, so we do it very efficiently: we barely sip calories to make it happen. You need strenuous work against resistance to build lean muscle mass, and the extra bulk will stay off if you then simply maintain that muscle mass, unlike a crash diet: I bet 99% odds the issue is not that you're eating too much.

The great thing is that you only need weightlifting in little bursts that may not even add to your schedule: just fifteen or twenty minutes, including rests, done every other day.

Possible example: Try two minutes on, two minutes off, for the first quarter hour of your usually-scheduled playtime, and let the kiddo set an egg or phone timer himself so he feels that great sense of power kids love when they get to tell their parents what to do. For the first two minutes he runs circles around you while you exercise, alternating with the next two minutes when you rest and play patty-cake or phone games or whatever toddlers do these days. While he circles for two minutes (how many circles can he do? can he do silly walks? how many different animal walks? can he sing a different song each time? etc.) you do a round of lifts. Next circle round, you do weighted squats (until 15 minutes have passed, or you're too tired to keep on). Just the first quarter hour of playtime, and just every other day (unless he insists otherwise, I suppose).

Be aggressive, but prudent (don't get injured!) with your weight goals; fewer, heavier, slower reps at a safely-challenging weight - maybe start with the equivalent of one-toddler-plus-ten-pounds, half in each hand - is more effective than lots of lighter vigorous exercise for the effect you want. If you push your body to do a lot of work, it will quickly try to build lean mass, which is going to increase your resting metabolic rate a ton - literally you'll lose weight while you sleep. If you have no weights, start with two one-gallon milk jugs of water. Add a handful or two of pebbles or play sand each on-day to increase weight. Challenge the kid to find pebbles pirate treasure for you (it's not child labor if it's a game!)

You'll want to keep your other good diet habits, but I tend to agree that single meals per day raise odds of slowing your metabolism and making your body want to hunker down and prevent changes. For many people nibbling periodically through the day on (portioned) high-protein, high-fat foods plus your stash of vegetables at meals (brushed in olive oil, broiled, & lemon-peppered is always a flavorful winner) will keep your body relaxed about the easy availability of food, instead of trying to store up reserves because you're hungry. Cut out sweetness if you can - as stated above, even noncaloric sweeteners trick your brain into releasing insulin, stevia specifically included. And as the ever-wise Malkynn points out - bloat and inflammation are real; don't get discouraged when you clean out the sweet stuff in your diet and your initially-brilliant progress seems to stall, because once you have some spare muscle accumulating that progress will snowball like beautiful compounding interest.

Lastly: don't let the scale tell you about your progress, let a camera, or a measuring tape, or the clothes. You may not lose much weight - muscle weighs more - but you will lose inches, and that wardrobe will fit comfortably again. And you'll never have to be that mom who grunts that their kid is "getting so heavy!"
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: Villanelle on April 29, 2020, 12:00:57 PM
With a toddler and 20 acres, can you not put him in a stroller, or even a wagon, and jog?  That in and of itself is unlikely to make a huge difference, but it is one more thing to add.  If you can burn an extra 100 calories a day doing that, every single day, it will account for very roughly one pound of your desired 10 pound loss. 

That's probably less than half an hour of jogging (pushing a toddler) per day. 

(All these are very rough estimates and will depend on your current weight, the weight of the toddler, your current condition, and more.)

Throw in 20 minutes every other day of weight lifting and you've probably got another pound toward your goal (plus addition pounds as you see benefits beyond the month.)

Hopefully this post makes it seem a bit more manageable.  Certainly you should be able to get of 5-8 of those pounds in a fairly healthy way, if you are aggressive.  Then you only have a few more weeks of wearing only your loosest pants and/or enduring spanx before you are at your 10 pounds .  Or maybe you get to all 10. 
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: GuitarStv on April 29, 2020, 12:53:21 PM
When my son was a toddler I used to put him in one of those baby backpack carriers and go jogging.  After the first 5 minutes, he would usually fall asleep.  :P
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: PGSD on April 30, 2020, 04:54:25 PM
Use fitness pal.com to log everything you eat, everything.  Set a weight loss goal in fitnesspal and it will tell you how many calories to consume to get there.  It’s free to use.  More protein and fat will fill you up and maybe make you feel better overall.  More physical activity could help you feel better but it takes awhile.  I’m all for an enthusiastic Dance Party in my livingroom, for example.

I've been using the free myfitnesspal app for the past two months and have lost 12 pounds so far (from 202 down to 190, 1.5 lbs/week, 1500 calories/day). BTW, 1.5 lbs/week is generally considered somewhat aggressive and it hasn't been easy. The app gives you 1500 calories/day and gets reduced as you document what you eat in the app. The bonus, and the only way I've been able to stay on target, is you get to add additional calories for the day by recording exercise (example ~100 calories per mile hiking for four miles = ~400 calories added to the daily 1500 = 1900).

Personally I don't really bother tracking the fat/nutrients/trying to eat "right". Counting calories kind of takes care of that as the good (OK, bad) stuff has too many calories to eat much of and stay in plan for the day.

I'm nearing my goal weight and will then switch to "maintain weight" in the app. That should give me ~2200 calories/day. Tracking those calories should, in time, help me learn better eating habits I can use the rest of my life. Yo-yo dieting is not the goal.

Other helpful tips: the app allows you to enter your weight daily (weigh yourself at the same time daily). While daily is a bit overkill, seeing your weight drop is motivating. Calorie tracking: Sometimes I eat over my "allowed" calories for the day. Sometimes I exercise enough that I don't eat all of my allowable calories. So, I track the weekly over/under total and, sometimes I can have an extra beer Saturday night. Other times I'm working out more than usual Saturday to make up the calories.

Good luck!   
 


 
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: cchrissyy on April 30, 2020, 09:51:55 PM
I am not into diet or exercise.  I just want to say, even though my daily routine has not changed much I've put on a little weight during quarantine too and i think it makes sense that my body is trying to protect me in a dangerous time.  Even though I know my house is safe and I know i have enough food, I think human bodies body adapted to store weight in uncertain times such as when you know there is a disease around you and people talking about  food shortages.

Maybe, when this passes, you will go back to your old normal without even trying.
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: 2Birds1Stone on May 01, 2020, 12:13:18 AM
Well OP, how's it going? You posted 6 days ago, and if you implemented even half of the sound advice here should have reversed course.


Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: Dave1442397 on May 02, 2020, 09:34:24 AM
I recently decided to get back to intermittent fasting, which worked well for me a few years ago.

After looking at some of the latest research, I decided to do the following:

1) Quit eating most of the junk candy that was lying around (nothing too crazy, but hard candies, gum, etc).
2) Eat three times a day, no snacking.
3) Fast twice a week. I stop eating at 5pm on Sunday, then don't consume anything but water until breakfast at 6:30am on Tuesday. I also stop eating at 5pm on Thursday and then nothing but water until breakfast on Saturday, usually around 7:30am.
4) Exercise has stayed pretty much the same. I do a lot of cycling, and I use a power meter, so the calorie count is pretty accurate. I burn around 650 calories an hour on Zwift three or four days a week, depending. Dog walks are around 10 miles per week.

The spreadsheet pic shows my weight loss since starting this on 4/20.

Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: GuitarStv on May 02, 2020, 08:00:45 PM
I went on a 160 km bike ride today and lost 8 lbs.  :P
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: SotI on May 03, 2020, 01:06:57 AM
Well, I am not the OP but as I indicated in this thread that I am facing the same challenge, let me share this with you:

Starting last week pretty much with this thread, I have tracked every bit I eat in a food tracker. My daily calorie reduction over the past 7 days was around 400 calories per day below my "recommended" calorie level. That led to a drop of 1.4 kg in scale weight until yesterday, most of which was cleary reduced water retention.
Today, my weight was up by 1.8 kg. So, weight-wise, I even "gained" 400 g more weight than before.

So, let's have a look at the food composition:  most days, my carbs were below 40% of nutritional value (typically one third, low glycemic values). Apart from Friday, which was very veggie-centric. There my carb ratio was a bit above 50%.

So, it's just anecdotal at this stage, but I reckon today I am seeing the water-storage effect of Friday's carbs. But I also see why people find dieting a tad frustrating ;-)

Side-note: I am middle-aged female of normal weight. I have not really been overweight or diet-prone in the past, so I normally have a balanced enough nutrition intake without having to think about it.  I just want to fit back into my clothes after the lock-down which clearly has messed up my natural balance. I admit to not being a sports crack (160 km on the bike would probably kill me, I am done after 30-40 km a day), but I do regular yoga for mobility purposes.


My conclusion from this week, btw, is going low carb for a month or so (maintaining the 400 cal deficit) and see if this works.

Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: Spud on May 03, 2020, 01:47:17 AM
I went on a 160 km bike ride today and lost 8 lbs.  :P

How long does the 160km ride take you? What's the total time you spend riding each week?
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: Malcat on May 03, 2020, 06:18:59 AM
Well, I am not the OP but as I indicated in this thread that I am facing the same challenge, let me share this with you:

Starting last week pretty much with this thread, I have tracked every bit I eat in a food tracker. My daily calorie reduction over the past 7 days was around 400 calories per day below my "recommended" calorie level. That led to a drop of 1.4 kg in scale weight until yesterday, most of which was cleary reduced water retention.
Today, my weight was up by 1.8 kg. So, weight-wise, I even "gained" 400 g more weight than before.

So, let's have a look at the food composition:  most days, my carbs were below 40% of nutritional value (typically one third, low glycemic values). Apart from Friday, which was very veggie-centric. There my carb ratio was a bit above 50%.

So, it's just anecdotal at this stage, but I reckon today I am seeing the water-storage effect of Friday's carbs. But I also see why people find dieting a tad frustrating ;-)

Side-note: I am middle-aged female of normal weight. I have not really been overweight or diet-prone in the past, so I normally have a balanced enough nutrition intake without having to think about it.  I just want to fit back into my clothes after the lock-down which clearly has messed up my natural balance. I admit to not being a sports crack (160 km on the bike would probably kill me, I am done after 30-40 km a day), but I do regular yoga for mobility purposes.


My conclusion from this week, btw, is going low carb for a month or so (maintaining the 400 cal deficit) and see if this works.

Yep. Weight over the short term is actually a terrible measure of duet success. Really, anything is.

I lost weight at a relatively steady pace for 4 years and tracked it closely. What I found was that I saw the effects of my eating a good 2 weeks afterwards.

So for example, if I was eating an excess for a length of time, say Christmas, then I wouldn't see any gain on the scale and think "wow, I didn't gain anything!" Then I would get my diet back in line and be quite strict for the next few weeks, but the scale would steadily climb. I would get frustrated and think "I don't gain when I eat like crap, but then I do gain when I maintain a calorie deficit, this is bullshit!"

After awhile the pattern became quite evident, and I became very patient. Figuring out that water fluctuations are hugely obscuring of results within the 2-4 week time range, I started looking at results on a longer time scale and stopped relating what I ate recently with the feedback numbers I was getting.
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: GuitarStv on May 03, 2020, 08:14:20 AM
I went on a 160 km bike ride today and lost 8 lbs.  :P

How long does the 160km ride take you? What's the total time you spend riding each week?

A touch under 6 hrs, and between 3 - 12 hrs a week (I do more weight training and less cycling in the winter, more cycling less weights in the summer).  I commute by bike twice a week minimum year round which works out to 3 of those hrs which would otherwise be spent in the car.
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: pecunia on May 03, 2020, 02:01:50 PM
A century in 6 hours.

100 / 6 = 17 mph  That is moving.

Eight lbs X 3500 calories / lb = 28,000 calories

153 calories in a 12 oz beer (depends on brand)

28,000 calories / 153 calories per beer = 183 beers

Good reason to bike!

You could even have Pizza with the beer.

You've convinced me.  Maybe, I'll even join the League of American Wheelmen or whatever they are called.
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: 2Birds1Stone on May 03, 2020, 03:19:09 PM
No one is burning 28,000 calories during a 6 hour bike ride LOL.

Water is heavy, you're welcome.

I saw this and had to peek in to see if OP returned with an update.



Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: GuitarStv on May 03, 2020, 05:10:20 PM
Oh, absolutely that's not all fat.  I'd guess about 5 lbs is water (and will be regained in a day or two).  But that's why a goal like weight loss is kinda silly to begin with.  You can lose water by not drinking.  You can lose muscle quickly by radically reducing your calorie intake.  Neither makes you healthier though.  Weight is bad thing to target.  Aim for performance goals so you can see your progress as you strengthen.
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: Spud on May 04, 2020, 12:34:21 AM
A century in 6 hours.

100 / 6 = 17 mph  That is moving.

Eight lbs X 3500 calories / lb = 28,000 calories

153 calories in a 12 oz beer (depends on brand)

28,000 calories / 153 calories per beer = 183 beers

Good reason to bike!

You could even have Pizza with the beer.

You've convinced me.  Maybe, I'll even join the League of American Wheelmen or whatever they are called.

This is the kind of broken thinking that what I'll call the "popular fitness media" loves, because it sells running shoes, running clothes, sunglasses, hats, mp3 players, drinks bottles etc. Billions of dollars of merchandise hanging off the idea that physical activity burns a significant amount of calories per unit of time. It doesn't.

When I fill my car up at the gas station, it takes me just under a minute to put enough gas in the car to travel 180 to 200 miles. Travelling that distance, in a pre-COVID-19-lockdown world, the way my life worked, it took about 8 or 9 hours which was 3 journeys per week spread over 3 weeks. The key point here is that it's ~60 seconds putting the fuel in, and between 28,800 and 32,400 seconds burning it off. The numbers and the exact ratio are not important. It's the size of the disparity I want to focus on.

The same thing applies to food and exercise.

Imagine a donut. One of those large, glazed affairs with a gooey filling and sprinkles on top. How long does it it take someone to eat one of those? Let's exclude breaks in eating (maybe they're at their desk in the office and they're interrupted by a phone call etc.) and focus on the cumulative time spent biting, chewing and swallowing.  It takes them 5 minutes to eat the donut if they're slow about it. I'd demolish one of those things in less than 2 minutes, no problem.

How long would it take a person to burn off the number of calories contained in the donut by running on a treadmill in a gym? Probably a couple of hours running at a pace fast enough that you were unable to talk.

Eating the donut is like fuelling the car. A few seconds or perhaps minutes to put the fuel in, but HOURS or DAYS burning it off.

How long does it take to not eat a donut? Zero seconds.

Yeah sure we can go down the rabbit hole of looking at how the skinny, lean, experienced female runner who is 5' 4" and weighs 110 pounds will burn less calories in that time than the massively fat 6' 3" guy who weighs 260 pounds who has only been running for a week or two, or that rowing might burn more calories than running because you're using more muscle etc.

It's still not going to get anyone to a point where the 3 minutes of eating a donut can be undone by running for just 10 minutes on a treadmill. If it was that easy, we'd have very few obese people on the planet.

I had a friend years back who was a personal trainer who was focused on food intake and weight training, no cardio. He'd prove this point by getting people to run on a treadmill. He'd give them a banana to hold in one hand like a relay baton as they ran. He'd leave them running for 5 minutes. He then come back to them, take the banana from them, peel it, just little bit, bite a quarter or so of the banana off the end, eat it in front of them, and then give the rest of the banana back to them to hold. They'd keep on running, getting really tired now and at that point he'd tell them:

"The amount of banana I just ate represents the amount of calories you've burned in the last 5 minutes. Do you want to try and burn the whole banana?"

Nobody wanted to burn the whole banana.

Usually when I bring this up, someone is always really quick to jump in and say that exercise is more than just about losing weight it has a myriad of other benefits too etc. Sure. I agree with you. I'm not arguing against that and saying that you should be some sedentary weirdo. I'm saying that controlling the amount of stuff going into your pie hole is the ONLY thing that really controls your bodyweight.

There are millions of misinformed people across the developed world whose primary reason for performing some kind of exercise is that they want to lose weight. They look in the mirror in the mornings and see this huge amorphous blob of a person and they want to change so they start running or some nonsense. Sure they tighten up their diet and they lose the first 20 pounds or whatever but even after that they're still very obviously fat. They persist a bit, but they begin to fall into the mindset of justifying eating the donut because they worked so hard in the gym earlier today, or to flip the thing on its head, they justify that they can eat the donut now because they'll just burn it off later in the gym.

The fact is, they won't even come close to burning off the donut, and we all know these people are eating more than just the donut. By the time you add up all the candy, pastries, ice cream, cookies here, soda there, it's got to the point where running a marathon every day might do the trick. Maybe. But do you have time for that?

Final analogy. Burning calories through physical activity in the hope of losing weight is like trying to empty a swimming pool with a coffee cup. Theoretically it's possible, but you're going to quit long before you've achieved any appreciable results because you'll be bored, tired and frustrated.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6914918/?fbclid=IwAR02MB4IKeBT6LJ6QHdV1y98TrDboDRdNgC1Q18azUow_IPkc7Hhthbid5k (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6914918/?fbclid=IwAR02MB4IKeBT6LJ6QHdV1y98TrDboDRdNgC1Q18azUow_IPkc7Hhthbid5k)
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: Kem on May 04, 2020, 05:44:06 AM
I concur @Spud.    Nutrition control represents likely 80-90% of the success of fat loss.  Proper sleep, stress mitigation, and increased energy expenditures is the rest. 

Exercise (specifically resistance) represents 90-100% of muscle retention when eating fewer calories than daily average expenditure. 

A minimum level of Strength/muscle in turn makes daily life easier, aging more graceful, and helps eventually grant that toned look most folks wanting to loose weight are really after.  Increased muscle makes keeping fat levels low or loosing fat so much easier.

After dropping from 250# to 165 as a 6' man, I didn't look toned.  My face looked skinny and my belly lacked any definition - the loose skin didn't help.   Now at 195# and a good bit more muscle strength my physic looks well rounded.  Chronic pain is gone.   Most of this training has been strength training, not mass training - but it still required insane levels of calories to grow those fibres' density.

My point here is, the weight training, for most folks, isn't going to bulk them up - it will assist in not loosing muscle weight durring weight loss.  As a side benefit they may gain a little strength (mostly through neurological improvement) , resilience, and flexibility while burning a scant few extra calories. 
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: GuitarStv on May 04, 2020, 08:01:16 AM
I had a friend years back who was a personal trainer who was focused on food intake and weight training, no cardio. He'd prove this point by getting people to run on a treadmill. He'd give them a banana to hold in one hand like a relay baton as they ran. He'd leave them running for 5 minutes. He then come back to them, take the banana from them, peel it, just little bit, bite a quarter or so of the banana off the end, eat it in front of them, and then give the rest of the banana back to them to hold. They'd keep on running, getting really tired now and at that point he'd tell them:

"The amount of banana I just ate represents the amount of calories you've burned in the last 5 minutes. Do you want to try and burn the whole banana?"

Nobody wanted to burn the whole banana.




The average weight for a man in the US is 197 lbs.  (https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/320917 (https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/320917))

Average jogging pace (not running, which is of course higher) is 4-6 mph (https://www.healthline.com/health/average-jogging-speed (https://www.healthline.com/health/average-jogging-speed))

Which means . . . using this handy dandy calculator (https://caloriesburnedhq.com/calories-burned-running/ (https://caloriesburnedhq.com/calories-burned-running/)) we find out that the average person burns 47 - 77 calories in 5 minutes.

A medium sized banana contains 105 calories.  (https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/bananas-calories-carbs (https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/bananas-calories-carbs))

So after 10 minutes, the average person going average jogging pace has burned off the banana.  I mean, it's a fun story . . . but your friend is lying to these people (I'm assuming that he's not so stupid he didn't take the 10 second it took me to actually look up the information).  And you appear to have bought into these lies, which is sad.  (Your friend is also ignoring the calorie burning effect of exercise after exercise has ceased - people have a heightened metabolism for several hours after completing a hard workout - but that's going off into another direction here.)

Diet is important - sure.  But do you really believe that lying to people about the effects of exercise is going to help them to be healthier?



Usually when I bring this up, someone is always really quick to jump in and say that exercise is more than just about losing weight it has a myriad of other benefits too etc. Sure. I agree with you. I'm not arguing against that and saying that you should be some sedentary weirdo. I'm saying that controlling the amount of stuff going into your pie hole is the ONLY thing that really controls your bodyweight.

So, why do I steadily lose weight all summer long . . . while increasing the quantities that I eat - pretty much across the board?  Is it magic, or does maybe exercise really make a big difference?



There are millions of misinformed people across the developed world whose primary reason for performing some kind of exercise is that they want to lose weight. They look in the mirror in the mornings and see this huge amorphous blob of a person and they want to change so they start running or some nonsense. Sure they tighten up their diet and they lose the first 20 pounds or whatever but even after that they're still very obviously fat. They persist a bit, but they begin to fall into the mindset of justifying eating the donut because they worked so hard in the gym earlier today, or to flip the thing on its head, they justify that they can eat the donut now because they'll just burn it off later in the gym.

The fact is, they won't even come close to burning off the donut, and we all know these people are eating more than just the donut. By the time you add up all the candy, pastries, ice cream, cookies here, soda there, it's got to the point where running a marathon every day might do the trick. Maybe. But do you have time for that?

I agree with you here.  Exercising doesn't (usually) give you free reign to eat garbage.  If your diet is chocolate cake and ice cream . . . you're going to get fat no matter what amount of exercise you do.  Maybe I'm completely out of touch with people here, but is there really anyone stupid enough to believe this?

The vast majority of folks I've known who are trying to get into shape are limiting their calories too much and then adding exercise.  Then they lose a little bit of weight, get burned out quickly, and quit exercising because of the constant exhaustion they feel from the restricted diet.  Then they lose a little more muscle mass by dieting without exercise, but eventually they can't keep up with whatever crazy diet numbers they've set themselves and stop seeing weight come off . . . head back to eating the unhealthy way they were before trying to get into shape and end up gaining more weight than they had originally - because now they have reduced their metabolism by dieting away their muscle.

The problem of course, isn't that dieting is a bad way to lose weight . . . it's that focusing on diet too much and in an unsustainable way is a bad way to lose weight.  If you're hungry all the time, you will struggle to lose weight and you will suck at whatever physical activity you try to do.  That doesn't mean that diet isn't important, or that you're naturally not athletic . . . but people often get overly carried away with counting calories to their detriment.  Fill half your plate with raw vegetables, a quarter of your plate with carbs (ideally not white pasta/white bread/white rice), and the rest with a mix of fruit, meat, and dairy products.  Don't eat any garbage food (cake, ice cream, cookies, brownies, twinkies, candies, potato chips, donuts).  You'll find it really hard to overeat when doing this - because the sheer bulk of the amount of vegetables that you're eating will make your stomach feel full before you're able to consume too many calories.
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: Malcat on May 04, 2020, 09:32:29 AM
I agree with you here.  Exercising doesn't (usually) give you free reign to eat garbage.  If your diet is chocolate cake and ice cream . . . you're going to get fat no matter what amount of exercise you do.  Maybe I'm completely out of touch with people here, but is there really anyone stupid enough to believe this?

The vast majority of folks I've known who are trying to get into shape are limiting their calories too much and then adding exercise.  Then they lose a little bit of weight, get burned out quickly, and quit exercising because of the constant exhaustion they feel from the restricted diet.  Then they lose a little more muscle mass by dieting without exercise, but eventually they can't keep up with whatever crazy diet numbers they've set themselves and stop seeing weight come off . . . head back to eating the unhealthy way they were before trying to get into shape and end up gaining more weight than they had originally - because now they have reduced their metabolism by dieting away their muscle.

The problem of course, isn't that dieting is a bad way to lose weight . . . it's that focusing on diet too much and in an unsustainable way is a bad way to lose weight.  If you're hungry all the time, you will struggle to lose weight and you will suck at whatever physical activity you try to do.  That doesn't mean that diet isn't important, or that you're naturally not athletic . . . but people often get overly carried away with counting calories to their detriment.  Fill half your plate with raw vegetables, a quarter of your plate with carbs (ideally not white pasta/white bread/white rice), and the rest with a mix of fruit, meat, and dairy products.  Don't eat any garbage food (cake, ice cream, cookies, brownies, twinkies, candies, potato chips, donuts).  You'll find it really hard to overeat when doing this - because the sheer bulk of the amount of vegetables that you're eating will make your stomach feel full before you're able to consume too many calories.

I think that whether focused on diet or focused on exercise, trying to lose weight too quickly is the main culprit of people burning out and giving up, whether it be excessively restricted calories or pushing way too hard at exercise, doing anything outside of capacity is not sustainable for very long.

I've helped a number of people lose and keep off substantial weight, and I get them focused on lifetime goals, such as visualizing what it takes to be fit and lean at 75, not just this year.
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: JoJo on May 04, 2020, 10:00:40 AM
Scale this morning:  19 pounds lost since the start of the isolation.

I'm having some loose skin, and was researching non-surgical solutions.  Has anyone tried collagen peptides?  It looks like you can put a couple scoops in morning coffee, supposed to help skin, nails, hair, joints.   A good source of some protein calories too.
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: mm1970 on May 04, 2020, 10:41:28 AM
Quote
So, why do I steadily lose weight all summer long . . . while increasing the quantities that I eat - pretty much across the board?  Is it magic, or does maybe exercise really make a big difference?

It's probably due to the sheer volume of exercise you get.  Most people don't (and likely can't) get that volume.

For the most part, typical exercise doesn't help much with weight loss.  (Though it does help me eat more to maintain weight.)

I would say that in your case, or the case of professional athletes, and also in the case of the Amish - that is the level of fitness/ exercise required to be able to "eat what you want'.

I have a local friend, in her 60s, and she once told me that she could eat whatever she wanted.  Oh, she didn't live on junk or anything like that.  She just didn't know how to drive.  When her (newly adopted) younger kids were little, she walked them to the park to play every day (2 miles each way, big hill).  She was in her 50s then.  Grocery store?  1.25 miles away, up another big effing hill.  She walked tens of thousands of steps per day.

She STILL looks great, even though she's dialed it back.  Kids are older, her older daughter moved nearby and can drive her places, and she bought an  electric bike.

As I talked with the guys at the pool years ago...one of them (about my age) said it's not about what you eat.  Look at these professional swimmers and cyclists!  They eat a ton!  Yes, and they swim/cycle hours a day.  Your typical human can't do that.  We have kids, and jobs.  And honestly, at my age, I cannot do that many hours.  After about 40 min of swimming 2x a week, my shoulder starts to ache.  I can run 3x a week, and one of those days can be 8-9 miles, but at about 7-8 miles the hips get really sore.  I love weight lifting, but have issues with one shoulder and the other elbow.  This guy, a few months later, ended up having shoulder surgery (he was swimming an hour a day, at almost 50).  So...I think he gets it now.  The ability to put in the hours required to "eat what you want" varies with age and from person to person.
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: mm1970 on May 04, 2020, 10:51:24 AM
I wanted to add... this idea of "exercising to lose weight" is a common thought around many groups of people.

I first went on weight watchers at 31.  I had gained a bunch of weight after getting married and getting out of the Navy and I still exercised a lot.  WW definitely worked like a charm for me, and I didn't think it would.  I had many friends who were much older than me also on WW and they were surprised that I dropped weight faster, but I was in my 30s and exercising (had been already) and they were in their 50s and 60s.

My FIL, at the time, wanted to lose about 10 lbs and just talked about "exercising it off".  My best friend, same.  She wanted to lose weight?  She was 30, she just started running a 10k...every day.

Thing is, as I pointed out to FIL (in his 60s) - "you can't outrun a bad diet - eventually".  Exercising to lose weight sometimes works, especially if you are young, and either partially fit or used to be fit (muscle memory).  At some point, just adding or increasing exercise doesn't work anymore.  When that happens is variable.  For me, that was age 24.  For some people, it's 40, or 60.  For my FIL, it was his early 60s.  For my best friend?  Around 38.

Men tend to have a longer "runway", so to speak, than women.  But it happens to almost everyone, eventually.
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: Wolfpack Mustachian on May 04, 2020, 11:28:09 AM
Everything anecdotal is just that, anecdotal. Firsthand experience for me though. I went hard at 1200-1400 calories per day for months. I dropped from probably 255-220. I also added running and strength training. Now, I'm doing maybe 2-20 minute sessions of running each week, and maybe 1-1.5 hours of weights/body weight exercising. I've plateaued, because I have upped my calorie intake. A couple of my observations from it. I don't think I would have dropped like I did without the caloric restrictions, even if I had exercised more. However, exercise, even very limited, has enabled me to eat not quite as many calories as I was at 260 but similar and still maintain 220-225. I doubt it's actually burning off calories since my exercise time is so low. I believe it's having a body with more muscle mass and less fat. So my personal experience is that exercise helped lose weight although not by itself but has significantly helped in maintaining a lower weight even with more calories than I should be able to get by standard numbers as best I can tell.
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: SuperNintendo Chalmers on May 04, 2020, 06:17:13 PM
Lots of discussion in this thread about the benefits of building muscle in terms of expending more calories at a baseline level, and thus losing weight.  I don't disagree with that or any of the science behind it. 

It has always intrigued me, however, that in my almost 20 years of going to gyms, training, racing, competing, and just general observation, the people with the most muscle mass are usually always the ones with the most apparent* body fat.  I mean, I could probably count on two hands the number of people I've noticed in daily life who have lots of muscle mass who are also legitimately cut.  Usually it's the endurance type athletes with small muscle mass that have the lowest apparent body fat, which seems counterintuitive to the "more muscle burns more calories = easier to lose weight/fat". 

Now I know there is a number of possible reasons for this, including: 

  1.  People who are training to maximize strength need lots of calories and often are not interested in losing weight/fat (e.g., powerlifters, NFL linemen, but also a lot of gym rats).
  2.  Genetics are different - these folks might be "easygainers" as opposed to "hardgainers," with both types drifting towards sports/training that plays to their strengths (heavy focus on strength/mass for easygainers, cardio-based sports for hardgainers)
  3.  As noted in the above discussion, people generally underestimate the importance of diet in losing weight as opposed to training (e.g., think they can eat much more because they lift a lot, leading to muscle building but also weight gain)
  4.  *Looks are deceiving (really muscle-bound people may look "fat" but actually may have relatively low body fat %)
  5.  And of course there are many many exceptions to this (bodybuilders, people who are successful balancing increases in muscle with loss of body fat, etc.)

For me personally, back when I was at my strongest/most muscle-heavy, I also had a pretty high bodyfat %.  I look back at pics from that time and think, wow, I look bloated.  It was only when I took up triathlon/OCR that I lost a lot of weight/fat. 

Again, I'm not questioning the benefits of weight training, which I love and still do regularly and agree is outstanding for overall health.  In particular I think complex movement/performance-based strength training is outstanding.  Nor am I advocating any particular type of training over another.  I'm just surprised how in daily observation there at least appears to be a strong correlation with lots of muscle mass, greater fat, at least at a superficial level.   

(Also, to be clear, I'm not making any value judgments on any of this.  You can be fat or not fat, fit or not fit.  Everyone has different circumstances and no judgments here.  Just an observation.)

Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: GreenSheep on May 04, 2020, 07:17:58 PM
Dr. Michael Greger's recent book "How Not to Diet" is full of evidence-based tips and tricks for losing weight and/or maintaining a healthy weight. He discusses not only what to eat but also some more esoteric things like how your circadian rhythm affects your body's use of food, etc.
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: Catica on May 05, 2020, 04:28:01 AM
Ah, tried on some work clothes today and realized I had gained a ton of weight during quarantine - 17lbs!  I cannot buy a new professional wardrobe plus I'm partially in sales so I need to get back to my old weight asap.  What is the best way to lose a minimum of ten pounds by the end of May?  I've been trying the eat once a day fasting for the last week and don't seem to be budging.  30 year old female.

Things I can't do:
-Can't eat a lot of fresh things since we only grocery shop once a month during the quarantine.  We do have frozen vegetables though.
-I have absolutely no time for exercise as I am working full time but I walk around my twenty acres for at least an hour chasing my toddler around.  I'm pretty winded after having to carry him around up hills when he gets tired.
-I can't do something not feasible like not eating for multiple days in a row.

Things I can do:
-I can do keto/intermittent fasting/eat a low variety of diet.  I can do anything needed for a month to lose the weight and then hopefully by then we're back at work and I can go back to my usual routine.  What is the healthiest and most efficient way to get this goal accomplished?
-I have a lot of frozen chicken and meat and we have chickens/ducks so lots of eggs available.
-My choice of liquid is green tea with stevia so I don't drink any calories.

Suggestions?  Help?

Thank you!
You didn't say what you did that you gained 17lbs in such short period of time.  What changed?  Being in quarantine is not an answer.
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: GuitarStv on May 05, 2020, 06:09:51 AM
Dr. Michael Greger's recent book "How Not to Diet" is full of evidence-based tips and tricks for losing weight and/or maintaining a healthy weight. He discusses not only what to eat but also some more esoteric things like how your circadian rhythm affects your body's use of food, etc.

While I don't agree with a lot of what Greger says (he has a habit of lying through omission in his zeal to crusade for all things vegan), his advice of eating vegan is generally pretty good for weight loss.
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: pecunia on May 05, 2020, 06:46:00 AM
Damn!  I was looking forward to those 183 beers too!  Hey!  You said the weight loss was mostly water.  Beer is mostly water too.  Maybe the math didn't lie after all.

One thing I don't think folks mentioned in this discussion is resting metabolism.  People who build muscle burn more even while they are doing the couch potato thing.  Why?  The body uses fuel to maintain muscle.

Here's another thing I've wondered about.  Ever get some exercise and you notice that your body doesn't immediately go into a resting state?  You can feel warm for quite a while after the exercise.  I figure this after effect must be a bonus burn to the exercise.  Sometimes, you feel the burn in a couple of ways the muscle burn and this after effect.

You guys are inspiring me to get out and do the exercise thing this Summer.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: GreenSheep on May 05, 2020, 08:19:44 AM
Dr. Michael Greger's recent book "How Not to Diet" is full of evidence-based tips and tricks for losing weight and/or maintaining a healthy weight. He discusses not only what to eat but also some more esoteric things like how your circadian rhythm affects your body's use of food, etc.

While I don't agree with a lot of what Greger says (he has a habit of lying through omission in his zeal to crusade for all things vegan), his advice of eating vegan is generally pretty good for weight loss.

Yeah, I suppose I should put my usual disclaimer here, which you're likely well aware of, too... "vegan" does not always equal "healthy." Maybe it did 200 years ago, when there was no vegan junk food. But today... French fries and a Coke are vegan. But a diet that focuses on whole foods, at least primarily coming from plants, is naturally dilute in calories and can help with achieving/maintaining a healthy weight. One thing about whole food plant-based eating that seems to appeal to lifelong dieters is that they no longer have to count calories or control portion sizes. You can stuff yourself with fruits, vegetables, beans, and whole grains, and your calorie intake will naturally remain pretty low.
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: mm1970 on May 05, 2020, 10:28:21 AM
Quote
It has always intrigued me, however, that in my almost 20 years of going to gyms, training, racing, competing, and just general observation, the people with the most muscle mass are usually always the ones with the most apparent* body fat.  I mean, I could probably count on two hands the number of people I've noticed in daily life who have lots of muscle mass who are also legitimately cut.  Usually it's the endurance type athletes with small muscle mass that have the lowest apparent body fat, which seems counterintuitive to the "more muscle burns more calories = easier to lose weight/fat".
Even people who compete because - well, that's how you get stronger.

First, bulk = eat more, add weight (muscle and fat), get stronger
Second, cut = cut calories and carbs, maintain strength, lose fat

(My niece is a power lifter and used to compete.)
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: Malum Prohibitum on May 05, 2020, 11:10:16 AM
I went on a 160 km bike ride today and lost 8 lbs.  :P

How long does the 160km ride take you? What's the total time you spend riding each week?

A touch under 6 hrs, and between 3 - 12 hrs a week (I do more weight training and less cycling in the winter, more cycling less weights in the summer).  I commute by bike twice a week minimum year round which works out to 3 of those hrs which would otherwise be spent in the car.

And here I thought my 10km rides were really something.   Along comes GuitarStv to smash my delusions into little bits!   
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: Malum Prohibitum on May 05, 2020, 11:15:52 AM
Quote
It has always intrigued me, however, that in my almost 20 years of going to gyms, training, racing, competing, and just general observation, the people with the most muscle mass are usually always the ones with the most apparent* body fat.  I mean, I could probably count on two hands the number of people I've noticed in daily life who have lots of muscle mass who are also legitimately cut.  Usually it's the endurance type athletes with small muscle mass that have the lowest apparent body fat, which seems counterintuitive to the "more muscle burns more calories = easier to lose weight/fat".
Even people who compete because - well, that's how you get stronger.

First, bulk = eat more, add weight (muscle and fat), get stronger
Second, cut = cut calories and carbs, maintain strength, lose fat

(My niece is a power lifter and used to compete.)

Bodybuilders = same.  They are typically only at the 3.5-6% body fat level for a few short days around the competition.  Then its back up to somewhere between 8-13%. When you see a big guy in the gym at 13%, it's a lot of fat.  He'll take 14-16 weeks to diet that off for competition, but in doing so will drop to body fat percentages few non-competitors will ever see in their lifetimes.

The observation about large, puffy guys in the gym is an accurate one, however.  Most guys in the gym never compete and never drop below about 12% body fat for fear of losing muscle.  Even a drop in scale weight causes some of these guys to panic and eat more.
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: Malcat on May 05, 2020, 11:28:59 AM
Quote
It has always intrigued me, however, that in my almost 20 years of going to gyms, training, racing, competing, and just general observation, the people with the most muscle mass are usually always the ones with the most apparent* body fat.  I mean, I could probably count on two hands the number of people I've noticed in daily life who have lots of muscle mass who are also legitimately cut.  Usually it's the endurance type athletes with small muscle mass that have the lowest apparent body fat, which seems counterintuitive to the "more muscle burns more calories = easier to lose weight/fat".
Even people who compete because - well, that's how you get stronger.

First, bulk = eat more, add weight (muscle and fat), get stronger
Second, cut = cut calories and carbs, maintain strength, lose fat

(My niece is a power lifter and used to compete.)

Bodybuilders = same.  They are typically only at the 3.5-6% body fat level for a few short days around the competition.  Then its back up to somewhere between 8-13%. When you see a big guy in the gym at 13%, it's a lot of fat.  He'll take 14-16 weeks to diet that off for competition, but in doing so will drop to body fat percentages few non-competitors will ever see in their lifetimes.

The observation about large, puffy guys in the gym is an accurate one, however.  Most guys in the gym never compete and never drop below about 12% body fat for fear of losing muscle.  Even a drop in scale weight causes some of these guys to panic and eat more.

Body dysmorphia is a very real and very powerful thing.
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: slappy on May 05, 2020, 11:42:30 AM
Scale this morning:  19 pounds lost since the start of the isolation.

I'm having some loose skin, and was researching non-surgical solutions.  Has anyone tried collagen peptides?  It looks like you can put a couple scoops in morning coffee, supposed to help skin, nails, hair, joints.   A good source of some protein calories too.

I'm drinking collagen in my tea as we speak. But I've only been doing for a few days, so I can't really say whether it works. The one thing I will say is that it's not as tasteless as they would have you believe. It's not terrible, but I definitely notice it's there.
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: JoJo on May 05, 2020, 12:53:13 PM


I'm drinking collagen in my tea as we speak. But I've only been doing for a few days, so I can't really say whether it works. The one thing I will say is that it's not as tasteless as they would have you believe. It's not terrible, but I definitely notice it's there.

It would be awesome if you report back.  I'd suspect the stronger flavor of coffee may mask the flavor better.
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: Malum Prohibitum on May 05, 2020, 02:55:00 PM
Quote
It has always intrigued me, however, that in my almost 20 years of going to gyms, training, racing, competing, and just general observation, the people with the most muscle mass are usually always the ones with the most apparent* body fat.  I mean, I could probably count on two hands the number of people I've noticed in daily life who have lots of muscle mass who are also legitimately cut.  Usually it's the endurance type athletes with small muscle mass that have the lowest apparent body fat, which seems counterintuitive to the "more muscle burns more calories = easier to lose weight/fat".
Even people who compete because - well, that's how you get stronger.

First, bulk = eat more, add weight (muscle and fat), get stronger
Second, cut = cut calories and carbs, maintain strength, lose fat

(My niece is a power lifter and used to compete.)

Bodybuilders = same.  They are typically only at the 3.5-6% body fat level for a few short days around the competition.  Then its back up to somewhere between 8-13%. When you see a big guy in the gym at 13%, it's a lot of fat.  He'll take 14-16 weeks to diet that off for competition, but in doing so will drop to body fat percentages few non-competitors will ever see in their lifetimes.

The observation about large, puffy guys in the gym is an accurate one, however.  Most guys in the gym never compete and never drop below about 12% body fat for fear of losing muscle.  Even a drop in scale weight causes some of these guys to panic and eat more.

Body dysmorphia is a very real and very powerful thing.

I was guilty of it myself when I was younger.  I found dropping bodyweight once a year or so actually helps gains.

It is also a fact that stripping off fat makes one look bigger.  If I strip off 15 pounds of fat, invariably persons make comments that I have bulked up and gotten bigger, which obviously the scale reveals is not true.  Leaner muscles do look larger.
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: Loretta on May 05, 2020, 08:35:58 PM
so @MrsSpendyPants , how have you attacked this problem? When I teleconferenced with my mother earlier this week she unboxed some jeans she’d bought on EBay in a larger size than she was wearing in April, which made me think of your post. 

If you have a steady stream of eggs into your life, maybe try an omelet for one meal per day.  Lots of good protein and lean if you use the right fillings. 


Ah, tried on some work clothes today and realized I had gained a ton of weight during quarantine - 17lbs!  I cannot buy a new professional wardrobe plus I'm partially in sales so I need to get back to my old weight asap.  What is the best way to lose a minimum of ten pounds by the end of May?  I've been trying the eat once a day fasting for the last week and don't seem to be budging.  30 year old female.

Things I can't do:
-Can't eat a lot of fresh things since we only grocery shop once a month during the quarantine.  We do have frozen vegetables though.
-I have absolutely no time for exercise as I am working full time but I walk around my twenty acres for at least an hour chasing my toddler around.  I'm pretty winded after having to carry him around up hills when he gets tired.
-I can't do something not feasible like not eating for multiple days in a row.

Things I can do:
-I can do keto/intermittent fasting/eat a low variety of diet.  I can do anything needed for a month to lose the weight and then hopefully by then we're back at work and I can go back to my usual routine.  What is the healthiest and most efficient way to get this goal accomplished?
-I have a lot of frozen chicken and meat and we have chickens/ducks so lots of eggs available.
-My choice of liquid is green tea with stevia so I don't drink any calories.

Suggestions?  Help?

Thank you!
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: 2Birds1Stone on May 05, 2020, 11:25:04 PM
I think OP is probably procrastinating their response due to inaction.

Prove us wrong ;) 
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: Malum Prohibitum on May 06, 2020, 02:49:01 PM
I think OP is probably procrastinating their response due to inaction.

Prove us wrong ;)

LOL!  Rough crowd, here!
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: GuitarStv on May 06, 2020, 02:51:18 PM
Think positive, OP could still be out on a very long ride . . .
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: dclarke1 on May 07, 2020, 03:57:11 PM
This is the way I think about it:

Based on the first law of thermodynamics, if I am burning more energy through exercise, breathing, muscle maintenance, etc. than I am taking in through food, then I must get that excess of energy from burning existing body fat, or muscle. In that case, unless I am adding weight from water, then I must also be losing body weight. I can't see any way around that.

Then a moderate calorie intake, plus regular biking or running should help.
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: GreenSheep on May 07, 2020, 05:07:13 PM
This is the way I think about it:

Based on the first law of thermodynamics, if I am burning more energy through exercise, breathing, muscle maintenance, etc. than I am taking in through food, then I must get that excess of energy from burning existing body fat, or muscle. In that case, unless I am adding weight from water, then I must also be losing body weight. I can't see any way around that.

Then a moderate calorie intake, plus regular biking or running should help.

I think this is true, but the problem is that it's easier said than done. White-knuckling it only works for so long. Humans are designed to eat when there's food available, which kept our ancestors from starving for millennia when food was often scarce, but now that we're surrounded by (often unhealthy) foods, a well-designed body finds itself malfunctioning when placed in the "wrong" environment. This is why I think one of the easiest ways to lose weight is to increase one's intake of calorie-dilute foods -- for example, a pound of strawberries contains fewer calories than a pound of potato chips, but they both satisfy hunger.
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: mm1970 on May 07, 2020, 06:56:36 PM
This is the way I think about it:

Based on the first law of thermodynamics, if I am burning more energy through exercise, breathing, muscle maintenance, etc. than I am taking in through food, then I must get that excess of energy from burning existing body fat, or muscle. In that case, unless I am adding weight from water, then I must also be losing body weight. I can't see any way around that.

Then a moderate calorie intake, plus regular biking or running should help.
The body is remarkably resilient, and has set points.  Meaning, it likes being at certain weights, and it will adjust how much energy is uses to stay at a particular setpoint.

You think "hey, I'm burning 250 calories more a day", but the body adjusts so you are burning fewer calories at rest.

That's why the "3500 calories per pound" is really a fallacy.  In order to lose a pound, most people have to cut far more than that amount (conversely, to gain a pound of actual fat, generally takes more than that.)
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: MrsSpendyPants on May 10, 2020, 05:36:11 PM
Hi everyone, OP here!  No I haven't done anything!  Found out I was supposed to be laid off a few days after I posted this and it has yet to happen but I've managed to stress eat and drink my way to even more weight in the meantime.  140 lbs now at 5'4".  Feeling absolutely  terrible with no energy.  Anxiety is certainly terrible for my diet.  Hoping to get a hold of it this week and make a difference.  Fingers crossed.
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: Malcat on May 10, 2020, 05:49:35 PM
Hi everyone, OP here!  No I haven't done anything!  Found out I was supposed to be laid off a few days after I posted this and it has yet to happen but I've managed to stress eat and drink my way to even more weight in the meantime.  140 lbs now at 5'4".  Feeling absolutely  terrible with no energy.  Anxiety is certainly terrible for my diet.  Hoping to get a hold of it this week and make a difference.  Fingers crossed.

I've often said that the best diet is a good therapist.
Take care of yourself, look for whatever supports you need to handle the stress. I gained nearly 70lbs during my doctorate, stress can do brutal things to your body.
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: aceyou on May 13, 2020, 07:55:15 PM

To the OP - I would suggest reconsidering the "no exercise" rule.  Weight lifting can reshape your body really quickly, and contrary to most views women aren't likely to significantly bulk up even if they do a *lot* of weight training.  Rather, weight training will tend to have a toning and slimming effect unless it's taken to extremes for the vast majority of women.  If I wanted to try to transform my body shape in 4 weeks I'd do most of what's already been suggested - zero alcohol, zero extra sugar or fake sweeteners, but add plenty of weight lifting.

This.  Lifting weights is so beneficial, but there such a lack of understanding on how to do it properly, and about what it will do to your body, that people struggle with it.  Lifting weights doesn't make you bigger...technically, it makes you literally smaller since it burns calories.  When you eat food, the first thing it does is supplies energy for your bodies normal needs.  After that, the body needs to make a decision about how to spend the extra calories.  If you lift weights, your brain will tell your body that it's better off allocating most of the extra calories to extra muscle mass, since apparently lifting heavy things is now on our bodies to-do list.  If you don't lift weights, your brain will tell your body to store extra calories as fat in case of famine.  I prefer my brain tells my body to send my extra calories to my muscles, so I choose to lift regularly. 

Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: SuperNintendo Chalmers on May 13, 2020, 08:18:25 PM
Hi everyone, OP here!  No I haven't done anything!  Found out I was supposed to be laid off a few days after I posted this and it has yet to happen but I've managed to stress eat and drink my way to even more weight in the meantime.  140 lbs now at 5'4".  Feeling absolutely  terrible with no energy.  Anxiety is certainly terrible for my diet.  Hoping to get a hold of it this week and make a difference.  Fingers crossed.

I suggest starting small at this point.  Consider any extra movement you do to be a "bonus" - something extra you did for yourself.  Have 30 seconds while you wait for water to boil?  Do some jumping jacks, or 5 pushups with your knees on the floor.  Outside in your yard?  Do some goofy light "sprints," and enjoy the feel of moving.  All of this is a bonus!

You don't have to have results now.  Just enjoy any extra movement you can do, and feel the benefits of getting the blood moving.  Once you get going, you'll likely find it less daunting--and more fun--to build little by little on that.   
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: clarkfan1979 on May 13, 2020, 08:59:57 PM
This is the order of operations.

1) full sleep
2) exercise
3) diet


If you do it backwards by focusing on diet and neglecting the first two, it will be very difficult, if not impossible. For exercise, you do not need to go to the gym. You just need movement.
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: mm1970 on May 14, 2020, 02:25:44 PM
Hi everyone, OP here!  No I haven't done anything!  Found out I was supposed to be laid off a few days after I posted this and it has yet to happen but I've managed to stress eat and drink my way to even more weight in the meantime.  140 lbs now at 5'4".  Feeling absolutely  terrible with no energy.  Anxiety is certainly terrible for my diet.  Hoping to get a hold of it this week and make a difference.  Fingers crossed.
Heck that's what I weigh and I'm 1.5 inches shorter!  I've got big hips and a lot of muscle though.  If I lost 10 lbs I'd be looking pretty scary.

Listen to @Malkynn and take care of yourself.  Also, this, from @clarkfan1979 :

Quote
This is the order of operations.

1) full sleep
2) exercise
3) diet


If you do it backwards by focusing on diet and neglecting the first two, it will be very difficult, if not impossible. For exercise, you do not need to go to the gym. You just need movement.

Sleep and exercise are crucial for my mental health.  The worst is those days due to stress or hormones that I don't sleep, then I skip my morning exercise.  I'm a hot mess on those days.

Honestly, some people do best with working exercise into their day as they have time (5 min here, 5 min there). For me, I'm a total scheduler.  I'm scheduled out through the first week in July.

But sleep is more important.
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: electriceagle on May 16, 2020, 10:18:52 PM
1. Stop eating junk calories. These are calories that contain few nutrients. They include soda, cake, white bread, etc.

2. (Presuming that you have no cardiovascular issues) do interval aerobics. Run as hard as possible for 30 seconds, then walk gently for 2 minutes, then repeat. Your body will think that you regularly get chased by bears and slim you down.

The rest is optional optimization.
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: pecunia on May 17, 2020, 02:08:08 PM
You know - try to make the exercise things that you like to do.  Otherwise, you just may not do it.  Long walks on sunny Spring days don' t seem as much like exercise.  Yet, long walks are good exercise.
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: Wolfpack Mustachian on May 18, 2020, 09:32:04 AM
1. Stop eating junk calories. These are calories that contain few nutrients. They include soda, cake, white bread, etc.

2. (Presuming that you have no cardiovascular issues) do interval aerobics. Run as hard as possible for 30 seconds, then walk gently for 2 minutes, then repeat. Your body will think that you regularly get chased by bears and slim you down.

The rest is optional optimization.

Step 1 is huge. I feel MMM aligns very well with dieting in this regard. You attack things methodically. It reminds me of when MMM (I believe it was him) talks about eating more frugally. You add in lower cost per calorie foods, and you'll eat for less. For dieting, you remove junk food that wastes calories on a nutritional standpoint. When you're hungry for snacks, you eat an apple instead of a candy bar or raw vegetables plain instead of chips. Then work on your actual meals in a similar vein. Eventually, you're eating a much healthier diet that probably takes a lot of volume of intake for the calories compared to before, and you're healthier and losing weight.
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: pecunia on May 18, 2020, 06:56:54 PM
Can it be a chocolate covered apple?
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: GreenSheep on May 18, 2020, 08:04:24 PM
Can it be a chocolate covered apple?

I'm no expert, but I bet even an apple dipped in chocolate (provided it's not a large amount) would be healthier than most of the junk food snacks out there! :-)
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: ohsnap on May 20, 2020, 03:50:02 PM
Dr. Michael Greger's recent book "How Not to Diet" is full of evidence-based tips and tricks for losing weight and/or maintaining a healthy weight. He discusses not only what to eat but also some more esoteric things like how your circadian rhythm affects your body's use of food, etc.

I recently read this book just because I am a Dr. Greger fan (I don't need to lose any more weight).  It's a good book.  BUT his How Not to Die is just as good (although without the "tips & tricks").  Loosely following his dietary guidelines is how I lost 20% of my body weight over 18 months.  By "loosely" following I mean I ate SO MUCH fruit & veg & whole grains & legumes & nuts as he recommends, and didn't eat sugar & processed foods, also per his guidelines.  But I did add some low-fat dairy and meat.  Typically 1 or occasionally up to 2 servings a day.  So I might eat greek yogurt with muesli & fruit for breakfast, or have 3 oz of chicken breast on a salad.

What worked for me was
1. Dr Greger's dietary guidelines (except not completely vegan)
2. Cardio (about 6 hours/week)
3. Weight training (about 2 30 min sessions/week)
4. Tracking everything. 
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: GreenSheep on May 20, 2020, 04:49:48 PM
Dr. Michael Greger's recent book "How Not to Diet" is full of evidence-based tips and tricks for losing weight and/or maintaining a healthy weight. He discusses not only what to eat but also some more esoteric things like how your circadian rhythm affects your body's use of food, etc.

I recently read this book just because I am a Dr. Greger fan (I don't need to lose any more weight).  It's a good book.  BUT his How Not to Die is just as good (although without the "tips & tricks").  Loosely following his dietary guidelines is how I lost 20% of my body weight over 18 months.  By "loosely" following I mean I ate SO MUCH fruit & veg & whole grains & legumes & nuts as he recommends, and didn't eat sugar & processed foods, also per his guidelines.  But I did add some low-fat dairy and meat.  Typically 1 or occasionally up to 2 servings a day.  So I might eat greek yogurt with muesli & fruit for breakfast, or have 3 oz of chicken breast on a salad.

What worked for me was
1. Dr Greger's dietary guidelines (except not completely vegan)
2. Cardio (about 6 hours/week)
3. Weight training (about 2 30 min sessions/week)
4. Tracking everything.

That's true, his "How Not to Die" is also an excellent book. I'm very much in the "you don't have to count calories if you eat whole food plant based" camp, but I do think it's helpful for someone who has never looked at that to just track it for one day. It's good to see what types of food have a lot more calories than other types of food. It's also reassuring for the "but where will I get my protein?" crowd to see that you won't come up short.
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: Freedom2016 on May 20, 2020, 07:37:18 PM
The observation about large, puffy guys in the gym is an accurate one, however.  Most guys in the gym never compete and never drop below about 12% body fat for fear of losing muscle.  Even a drop in scale weight causes some of these guys to panic and eat more.

Speaking of puffy physiques, I couldn't resist:

https://www.instagram.com/tv/B-qEW_6Jrf8/?utm_source=ig_embed (https://www.instagram.com/tv/B-qEW_6Jrf8/?utm_source=ig_embed)
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: 2Birds1Stone on May 21, 2020, 05:02:40 AM
None of this is going to help the OP if she refuses to take the first step....
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: GuitarStv on May 21, 2020, 08:52:56 AM
The observation about large, puffy guys in the gym is an accurate one, however.  Most guys in the gym never compete and never drop below about 12% body fat for fear of losing muscle.  Even a drop in scale weight causes some of these guys to panic and eat more.

12%?  12% body fat is ripped!  That's within the range that most pro athletes stay at.  When you dip below 10%, you usually lose a lot of strength and it's extremely hard to maintain without muscle loss.

I would not call anybody at 12% body fat 'puffy'.  :P
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: mm1970 on May 21, 2020, 11:07:18 AM
Re: How not to Diet

I'm currently reading "Why We Get Fat" by Gary Taubes, and it's pretty illuminating.  It's nothing that I haven't read before in various books over the last 15-20 years.  I am an equal opportunity reader - and I read everything from vegan to paleo when it comes to health books and recommendations. 

The one thing that I've mostly pulled from all these books over the years, especially from many doctors is "it depends".

The WFPB diet can really work wonders for a lot of people, but that tends to be people who don't have issues with carbohydrates.  Some people have problems with carbohydrates and weight gain/maintenance - and that is due to many issues, including genetics, age, and past history.  The fact of the matter is, if you happen to have issues with carbohydrates, you will have to restrict them.  Insulin resistance is a bitch.

I can happily say that so far, as a middle-aged woman, I fall in the middle camp.  I know for sure that I can't eat predominantly carbs, but I also don't have to heavily restrict them.  That is not the case for everyone.  I have plenty of carb loving, slender friends, and also a bunch of current and formerly overweight friends who will always have to watch their carb intake.

"We don't get fat because we overeat, we overeat because we get fat."
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: pecunia on May 21, 2020, 04:51:10 PM

- SNIP -

"We don't get fat because we overeat, we overeat because we get fat."

It makes sense to me.  I've seen it with my own eyes.  Some people can eat and eat and it doesn't stick.  There is more too it than simple calorie counting. 

There's a free movie on You Tube called, "Fat, Sick and Nearly Dead."  The protagonist of this documentary "reboots" his body.  It's kind of a fun movie to watch and an eye opener.
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: monarda on May 24, 2020, 12:43:10 AM
There's a recent NOVA on PBS called "The Truth About Fat" (https://www.pbs.org/video/the-truth-about-fat-xnqm4i/) that I found very interesting.
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: SotI on May 24, 2020, 02:23:13 AM
Even though it does not contribute to the OP's question, I would like to add that I always assumed  some genetic variance on weight, from anecdotal observations within my extended family.

For example, one sibling and I have inherited a lot of physical traits from my normal-to-slender sized father. We have also maintained normal weight throughout life well into middle- and old age (my dad died age 90+ without ever been overweight).
Other siblings inherited my (overweight-to-obese) mother's predominant physical traits - and have been obese (even morbidly so) all their adult lives.

Observing them, I can see distinctively different eating patterns: my father, sibling 1 and I are less "comfort-eating", we have a tendency for simple, no-fuss foods. My mother's "side" is heavily into elaborate, rich, social meals. We have all been brought up pretty much the same way, still there are those striking differences in our relationship with and preferences of food.

The question stays what is cause and effect, ofc. Still, it's interesting to see how this permeates through generations: Sibling 1 and I have married skinny men (leading to slender offspring). The other side's got together with other "big" folks, and their kids are typically obese as well ...

I have always found this quite fascinating, so I think this fits the most recent discussion here which has been beneficial for me (being a simple dieting case within "normal" weight range). So thanks again.

Still, this does not help the OP. I have no idea how to mitigate "stress-eating", unfortunately.
I just think that if stress is one of the drivers of weight-gain here, a simple "controlled eating suggestion" may not be sufficient, but add guilt to the stress ...

Edit: Just wanted to also point out that often the slim faction doesn't quite get the challenges of the overweight faction b/c for them it is typically no big deal to adjust. So I wanted to share this from the perspective of observing both sides.
 
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: 2Birds1Stone on May 24, 2020, 04:46:00 AM
The observation about large, puffy guys in the gym is an accurate one, however.  Most guys in the gym never compete and never drop below about 12% body fat for fear of losing muscle.  Even a drop in scale weight causes some of these guys to panic and eat more.

12%?  12% body fat is ripped!  That's within the range that most pro athletes stay at.  When you dip below 10%, you usually lose a lot of strength and it's extremely hard to maintain without muscle loss.

I would not call anybody at 12% body fat 'puffy'.  :P

This! Here is a pic I posted last summer weighing 204 lbs sitting around 12-13%

(https://i.imgur.com/NvnMJ19.jpg)
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: 2Birds1Stone on May 24, 2020, 04:51:35 AM
Here is 6-7% in 2014 for comparison
https://m.imgur.com/gallery/xUT4LaC
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: SotI on May 24, 2020, 05:23:02 AM
definitely doesn't look "puffy" to me at 12-13%
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: Dave1442397 on May 24, 2020, 10:01:36 AM
I thought I'd share my results after a month of changed habits.

I started off on April 21st at 178 lbs, and as of May 23rd I'm down to 166 lbs.

After reading the latest research on intermittent fasting, I started off by fasting from around 5pm on Sunday to 6:30am on Tuesday, and then from 5pm Thursday to 7:30am Saturday. I find Monday fasts are no problem at all. On Fridays, I find myself feeling tired by 4 or 5pm, and find it hard to concentrate on reading without dozing off. I'm ok if I watch a movie, or even just browse on the computer. I cut out snacking, and eat three meals a day. I cut out candy, but still eat a cookie or popcorn for dessert after lunch some days...other days maybe some roasted almonds.

I exercise five days a week, burning approx 650 calories per one-hour session.

For the past two weeks I decided to limit my eating to an eight-hour period on the five days a week I'm eating, so now I eat between 7am and 3pm on weekdays (I'm up at 5:40am), and roughly 7:30 - 3:30 on weekends. I don't know if that made any noticeable difference, but it can't hurt. Based on what I've read, the 16-hour no-food period is helping my metabolism.

I must say I rarely feel hungry, so this has been a fairly easy adaptation for me, and I'm feeling good.
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: MrsSpendyPants on June 06, 2020, 06:38:13 AM
Hi everyone, OP here.  I appreciate all of the tips.  From my update on May 10th, I am currently down 7 pounds.  Hoping the next few days brings me close to ten pounds in a month and I can keep going a bit.  Doing lower carb and cooking most dinners from scratch rather than using boxed sauces/meals.
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: pecunia on June 06, 2020, 06:58:18 AM
Good that it is working and sounds kind of simple versus all the differing advice we offered.  Slow and steady wins the race.
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: Loretta on June 06, 2020, 10:28:19 AM
Hi everyone, OP here.  I appreciate all of the tips.  From my update on May 10th, I am currently down 7 pounds.  Hoping the next few days brings me close to ten pounds in a month and I can keep going a bit.  Doing lower carb and cooking most dinners from scratch rather than using boxed sauces/meals.

Excellent work! 
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: BTDretire on June 06, 2020, 11:54:33 AM
Sorry, I missed this when it started.
On 2-2, (163lbs)  I went on a Keto diet, I weighed all my food and posted it in Chronometer to keep track of Carbs, Protein and fat. By 4-2 I was down 18.5 pounds (144.4lbs) and I was never hungry. I always ate less than the recommended 2,000 calories. I have since got down to 140 and drifted off the Keto. I do want to get back on, I don't need to lose any weight. But I want the great blood cholesterol tests that came with the keto diet.

 Total Cholesterol   June-19--195   Mar-20--109 
Triglycerides          June-19--397   Mar-20--82
LDL                      June-19--106   Mar-20--54 
CHOL/HDLC Ratio  June-19--5.4   Mar-20--2.8
NonHDL Chol         June-19--159   Mar-20--70
HDL                      June-19--36   Mar-20--39

If you go on Keto be sure to get enough salt, I usually had two cups of bouillon a day, I also added two tablespoons of Olive Oil to help get my fats. Watching a few of Dr Phinney's videos is worthwhile.
 
 
Title: Re: Need to lose a minimum of ten pounds in May! Help?
Post by: canadianrose on June 13, 2020, 11:53:06 AM
I suspect than a lot of the weight gain is water retention. Cut out the pressed foods for a while, the reduction in salt will help. More generally, cutting down on sugar and carbs will help, but processed foods have a lot of that, too. I don't know about you, but a lot of people ate more comfort carbs and take out during the quarantine, once they get back to normal eating habits, the weight should normalise eventually.