Author Topic: Need help sorting through my thoughts (family, money, small biz)  (Read 4700 times)

thedayisbrave

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Need help sorting through my thoughts (family, money, small biz)
« on: December 26, 2014, 12:47:19 PM »
I generally respect the wise counsel of you MMM folk so I'm hoping I'll come out of this with an action plan of some sort.

First, let me say that I wish my mother no ill will but emotionally our relationship has always been on the rocks.  My dad passed when I was young and the stress of her having to take care of my brother and I made my mom lash out at us throughout our childhood and adolescence.  We are adults now, so not as much of that going on, but our relationship will never overcome those years (I've been through years of therapy).  Somehow she is still able to affect me with harsh words and just generally not being on my team.  I do still turn to her for guidance, and she is my business partner.  We established an LLC last year to shield my rental property and to potentially pursue more opportunities together.  She is more my 'silent' partner - I do pretty much all the work regarding the property (managing tenants, etc.) until recently when I moved about 3 hrs away.  She has been collecting the rent for me since but otherwise I still manage the books, evaluate new deals, etc.  We get along fine as business partners - basically my attorney said for liability purposes, it was better to work with a partner.

I am moving back to my hometown because I wasn't happy at my new job - it just didn't fit the lifestyle that I wanted.  I have a wonderful relationship with my old boss whom I adore and to be quite honest, treats me like a daughter.  I have missed him tremendously.  Going home just feels right.  I am spontaneous and impulsive - made the decision to move earlier this year in the midst of a failed relationship, hoping that one day the ex BF would come back for me (I know... stupid, stupid, stupid). 

I'm learning that I *have* to be more cautious with my decisions, or else I'm never going to move forward and get my stash to where I want it to be.  I am extremely independent and strong willed but I give my mother too much power over my emotions still.  This is getting to the point where I'm considering dissolving the LLC partnership, selling my property (there's only one), and moving on with my life (ie not turning to her for guidance, whether business or otherwise).  She'll still be part of my life but I can't let her continue to spin me in circles with her passive aggressive shitty ways, and though our business relationship has never been on bad footing, I just feel that I need to make a clean break. 

Thinking it might be the best idea to dissolve the LLC to enable myself to focus completely on my new job and growing my income (there's no income cap so the more focused I am, the more it'll pay off).  Then maybe revisiting rental property 2-3 years down the road (without her).  In the mean time I'll work on growing my stash like crazy, exploring many investment options (like perhaps mortgage note investing etc.) but leaving the more hands-on stuff for later when I have built a more solid business and either have more time for it or have more ability to outsource.

If you've read this all the way through, THANK YOU.  Thoughts appreciated.  And please, no "business with family never works" comments.

« Last Edit: December 26, 2014, 12:54:21 PM by thedayisbrave »

Future Lazy

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Re: Need help sorting through my thoughts (family, money, small biz)
« Reply #1 on: December 26, 2014, 12:56:51 PM »
Rather than dissolve the LLC, why not remake it into a partnership between yourself and your former supervisor? Likewise, would it be possible to find another mentor with more experience through a community like Bigger Pockets?

When we chatted a bit before, it seemed like you were really interested in/excited about the property investing you were doing, and it might be equally impulsive to give that up.. unless it's not making money? Capital is key, right?

TerriM

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Re: Need help sorting through my thoughts (family, money, small biz)
« Reply #2 on: December 26, 2014, 12:57:25 PM »
Ouch.  I'm sorry to hear that you're having issues with your mom.  It's certainly a lesson to those of us with kids to be more thoughtful about how we say things (I can be a bit rough with my words sometimes).

I'm a little confused on the proposal.  You say that you've never had problems with your business relationship, but that you want to make a clean break, but that she'll still be a part of your life.  I don't understand how these all fit together.  Is it that it's not possible to separate your business relationship from personal life?  Or that you want to stop talking to her for a while (clean break), or that you want it to be entirely on your terms so you want the ability to never answer the phone and not worry that she's calling about the rental.

TerriM

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Re: Need help sorting through my thoughts (family, money, small biz)
« Reply #3 on: December 26, 2014, 12:58:05 PM »
Can you (or someone else) explain why an LLC is safer with a partner?

thedayisbrave

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Re: Need help sorting through my thoughts (family, money, small biz)
« Reply #4 on: December 26, 2014, 01:04:13 PM »
Rather than dissolve the LLC, why not remake it into a partnership between yourself and your former supervisor? Likewise, would it be possible to find another mentor with more experience through a community like Bigger Pockets?

When we chatted a bit before, it seemed like you were really interested in/excited about the property investing you were doing, and it might be equally impulsive to give that up.. unless it's not making money? Capital is key, right?

Thanks, Kayla.  It's not really making any money right now, I think this year I netted about $2K after expenses.  Granted, my brother and I both lived there during this past year so we would have made a lot more had our two rooms been rented out, but we had to live somewhere.  Fully rented, it's a decent money maker but on the lower end ($1400 rent for $103,000 purch price).

Didn't think about partnering with my supervisor.  I don't know that I'd want to ask him to do that.  Plus, my mom kind of hates how good of a relationship I have with him, so I'd probably get disowned... not like that is really a big issue anymore since I'm an adult... but it would probably be a bad move on my part.

I really do enjoy property investing.  But my local market is heating up so not many deals to be found, and I'm not at the point (yet) where I want to consider out of town rentals.  I'd love to, but I think that'd be biting off more than I can chew (right now).  Again, something I'd re-consider a few years from now once I got my business rolling...

thedayisbrave

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Re: Need help sorting through my thoughts (family, money, small biz)
« Reply #5 on: December 26, 2014, 01:09:10 PM »
Ouch.  I'm sorry to hear that you're having issues with your mom.  It's certainly a lesson to those of us with kids to be more thoughtful about how we say things (I can be a bit rough with my words sometimes).

I'm a little confused on the proposal.  You say that you've never had problems with your business relationship, but that you want to make a clean break, but that she'll still be a part of your life.  I don't understand how these all fit together.  Is it that it's not possible to separate your business relationship from personal life?  Or that you want to stop talking to her for a while (clean break), or that you want it to be entirely on your terms so you want the ability to never answer the phone and not worry that she's calling about the rental.

TerriM,

I guess by clean break I meant, I want to be able to *not* talk to her if I need to.  I respect her business mind so I always ask her about what thinks regarding new opportunities, but more and more she just gives me complete non-answers.  It's a delicate balance I know, but one she does not handle well... for instance, she wrote me unsolicited e-mail after e-mail about how the decision I was making (regarding my career choice and moving back home) was a mistake etc.  Yet I ASK for her opinion on certain other things like "hey, what do you think about this office condo for sale?" and she just says "do what you want." 

I think it's that the personal relationship makes me feel so bitterly that it is starting to affect the business relationship.  Not in tangible ways, and really only on my side (I think). 

As far as single member vs. multi member LLCs, I believe it's because it's a lot easier to prove that *you* are the LLC if it is a single member LLC... making it easier to claim piercing of the corporate veil (which thus means the person, as the business, is liable).  Whereas if it's a partnership, it's clear that there are two distinct persons involved.  At least that was my understanding.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2014, 01:20:18 PM by thedayisbrave »

TerriM

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Re: Need help sorting through my thoughts (family, money, small biz)
« Reply #6 on: December 26, 2014, 01:14:58 PM »
Got it.  It sounds like she's not being a good business partner either if she's not giving you business advice.

I think you should do what you can to separate yourself.  I understand what you're describing, and yeah, you need space from that.  It's not beneficial. 

You can still ask her advice later without having to be in an LLC with her. 

Frankies Girl

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Re: Need help sorting through my thoughts (family, money, small biz)
« Reply #7 on: December 26, 2014, 01:23:36 PM »
I have had extensive counseling concerning family (and mother and MIL) issues as well. I can't remember whether I read it or heard it, but something that made me laugh because it is SO true is:

Of course your mother knows how to push all of your buttons... she INSTALLED THEM.

I think considering that you do have issues with your mother, I do think what you're deciding to do is probably for the best. Breaking all ties with your mother (including the LLC) means you don't have to talk to her at all for any reason other than if you truly want to. As an adult, you should have the right and ability to decide what kind of a relationship you have with her if any,  and I think dissolving the partnership so you can gain some distance and think more about what exactly you do want would be a good thing.


Just because you are related doesn't mean they get to treat you poorly for the rest of your life. If you decide you want contact, lay down some rules (no p/a snide remarks, no manipulative tricks like crying, no nasty behavior, etc but specifics to what you experience with her) and she breaks those rules, then you can walk or hang up or whatever. Either they stop, or you stop the contact (leave the building, hang up the phone)... that's what worked with my mother, and now I have an acceptably decent relationship with her.

My husband currently has decided not to have any relationship with his mother - and considering he's been through the counseling and has talked about how he gets absolutely nothing from contact with her, I am respecting his feelings on the matter.

Catbert

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Re: Need help sorting through my thoughts (family, money, small biz)
« Reply #8 on: December 26, 2014, 02:44:53 PM »
I agree with the others, you need to get out of business with your mother.  Can you buy her out?  Or can would she buy you out?  If not, sell and start fresh alone.

I sorta understand what you're saying about the 2 member LLC.  But I'm guessing that you are relatively young and don't have a large net worth (???). In the case of losing a big law suit you'd lose the property regardless of how its held.  Usually retirement assets are protected (varies a bit).  Unless you have a big 'stashe you probably don't have much to lose.  Certainly not enough to warrant entanglement with a toxic individual.  Just ensure you have a decent
insurance policy.

I'm a bad person to take psychological advice from, however, I'm troubled by your relationship with you boss.  Bosses can be friendly or even friends sometimes.  Trying to have a father/daughter relationship with your boss doesn't seem healthy for the long run.  FWIW.

Letj

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Re: Need help sorting through my thoughts (family, money, small biz)
« Reply #9 on: December 26, 2014, 03:25:18 PM »
Ouch.  I'm sorry to hear that you're having issues with your mom.  It's certainly a lesson to those of us with kids to be more thoughtful about how we say things (I can be a bit rough with my words sometimes).

I'm a little confused on the proposal.  You say that you've never had problems with your business relationship, but that you want to make a clean break, but that she'll still be a part of your life.  I don't understand how these all fit together.  Is it that it's not possible to separate your business relationship from personal life?  Or that you want to stop talking to her for a while (clean break), or that you want it to be entirely on your terms so you want the ability to never answer the phone and not worry that she's calling about the rental.

It's understandable that you have some resentment towards your Mom but is it not understandable why a frustrated single mom would lash out and sometimes say or do things that from a child's point of view is cruel?  After all, she is human and no parent is perfect. Most of us learn as we go and have said things that we regret. During one's youth certain circumstances can seem worst than they actually are. By the time I had my own children, I completely forgave my mother for all the things I perceived she did or said to me that was unkind.  For me having my own children made me appreciate the frustrations my mother faced and the sacrifice she made.  As the parent of a teenager, I can see clearly how teenagers can be prone to drama and histrionics and completely misperceive what you are trying to tell them. My daughter is convinced that I think she would be a slouch as an adult because I told her that productive people don't spend all day in bed and do have a routine.  I am not saying you may not have legitimate reason to resent your mother but I do want to remind you (as a parent myself) that being a parent is not easy especially to strong willed teenagers.  You will only have one mother and you can find forgiveness in your heart not only will you be happier but so will your mother. And one more thing, there are very few parents who could refrain from proving advice to their children if they perceive that they are making a mistake; if you think she is being overly intrusive, then tell her so if not, just listen and ignore. My two cents.

Letj

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Re: Need help sorting through my thoughts (family, money, small biz)
« Reply #10 on: December 26, 2014, 03:28:17 PM »
It's understandable that you have some resentment towards your Mom but is it not understandable why a frustrated single mom would lash out and sometimes say or do things that from a child's point of view is cruel?  After all, she is human and no parent is perfect. Most of us learn as we go and have said things that we regret. During one's youth certain circumstances can seem worst than they actually are. By the time I had my own children, I completely forgave my mother for all the things I perceived she did or said to me that was unkind.  For me having my own children made me appreciate the frustrations my mother faced and the sacrifice she made.  As the parent of a teenager, I can see clearly how teenagers can be prone to drama and histrionics and completely misperceive what you are trying to tell them. My daughter is convinced that I think she would be a slouch as an adult because I told her that productive people don't spend all day in bed and do have a routine.  I am not saying you may not have legitimate reason to resent your mother but I do want to remind you (as a parent myself) that being a parent is not easy especially to strong willed teenagers.  You will only have one mother and you can find forgiveness in your heart not only will you be happier but so will your mother. And one more thing, there are very few parents who could refrain from proving advice to their children if they perceive that they are making a mistake; if you think she is being overly intrusive, then tell her so if not, just listen and ignore. My two cents.

Allie

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Re: Need help sorting through my thoughts (family, money, small biz)
« Reply #11 on: December 26, 2014, 03:33:02 PM »
In the long term, getting out of business with your mother is probably a good idea.  But. 
if the LLC doesnt need a lot of tending to in the moment, consider waiting a while.  You describe a history of impulsive, emotional decision making that doesn't sound like it has brought you any peace or happiness.  Instead of reacting to each piece of your life at a time, take a look at the bigger picture.  You can't make a big life change to improve one area without considering everything else.  Moving back to your home town, likely a good decision for support and career, sounds good.  Cutting ties with your LLC also sounds good for your emotional health.  Doing so at the same time sounds like you will just be pouring gasoline on what is now a little ember.

Your mother may be difficult and unhelpful, but I can't think of anything that will create family chaos more than moving home to reestablish a close relationship your mother is jealous of and simultaneously telling her you no longer want to be involved with her in business. 

Here is my 5 cents worth.  Maybe it is just how I read the post, but it seems like a lot of your past decisions create drama.  Regardless of whether it is fair or not, jumping into the proposed changes with both feet will likely whip up more of the same.  If you want to establish yourself in a stable manner, consider trying another approach.  You can't change your mother or your past.  You can understand how the people around you will react to your decisions.  You can manage how react to their decisions.  Before you do anything, carefully consider what you want in the long term. 

thedayisbrave

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Re: Need help sorting through my thoughts (family, money, small biz)
« Reply #12 on: December 26, 2014, 05:46:29 PM »
Thanks, everyone.  Yes, I agree, I will definitely not be doing all this at once.  Probably will start making LLC changes mid-year 2015, if after more thought I decide that is what I truly want. 

I am definitely the kind of person who goes 100% in one direction until I decide to switch it up, etc.  I know this about myself and along the way have been burned by it, but obviously nobody is to blame but me.  So I've had to learn some hard lessons.  Which is why I'm forcing myself to be more thoughtful and careful.  This isn't the first time I've wanted out of the LLC though.  And at least I don't half ass anything!


TerriM

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Re: Need help sorting through my thoughts (family, money, small biz)
« Reply #13 on: December 26, 2014, 08:57:06 PM »
It's understandable that you have some resentment towards your Mom but is it not understandable why a frustrated single mom would lash out and sometimes say or do things that from a child's point of view is cruel?  After all, she is human and no parent is perfect. Most of us learn as we go and have said things that we regret.

Some people actually don't understand.  Especially if they're aspberger's.  I found out that my mom is about a year or two ago, and everything makes soooooo much more sense now.  I actually had to break up a fight between her and one of my kids with "Can you share?  There are two sets of those."

mozar

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Re: Need help sorting through my thoughts (family, money, small biz)
« Reply #14 on: December 26, 2014, 11:51:53 PM »
Sometimes I wish my mom had asbergers, but its just plain old clinical depression. It sounds like your mother is emotionally abusive. Its hard to make sound decisions when someone is criticising you all the time. I recommend reading "codependent no more" and "feeling good."

SingleMomDebt

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Re: Need help sorting through my thoughts (family, money, small biz)
« Reply #15 on: December 27, 2014, 12:47:35 AM »
Ps: "codependent no more" is a great book mozar recommended.

thedayisbrave

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Re: Need help sorting through my thoughts (family, money, small biz)
« Reply #16 on: December 27, 2014, 08:27:32 AM »
I appreciate everyone's kind words and thoughts so much.  Sorry to hear though that mother/child relationship issues seem common amongst us. 

I do think my mother means well, but the years and years of yes - emotional abuse - were terrible.  I didn't know what it was at the time.  And even now, though we are definitely on more solid footing, she still doesn't seem to understand how hurtful her actions/words are.  I know that *I* am the one giving her power by letting it bother me, so that is why I have to work at distancing myself.  Her life has certainly not been a cake walk, but she was the adult - we were the children.  Yet she somehow still blames us and claims that we (my brother and I) are her "greatest challenge."  Really? I have NEVER gotten in trouble at school (in fact was usually the teacher's pet).  Never went to parties and got drunk, never even gotten so much as a parking ticket... I have my graduate degree, and my brother just got accepted to Stanford for his PhD.  I don't think she comprehends how good she has it.  Most of the time in school I was terrified of her though so I can't say the "drive" I have came from an honest place - though now it does.

Thank you for the book suggestions.  I am riding the end of the holiday wave so things have been quiet around here - heading out to pick them up at Barnes & Noble now :)