How long to keep a Golf

[Scandium]

My wife has an 04 VW Golf, with about 95k miles on it. She takes the bus to work, so only used a few miles per day for commuting. Just started tracking the odometer to see how much we put on it per year. Bluebook value is $3-4,000

Repairs on VWs are of course expensive, and from what I hear complicated things will eventually fail with these cars (my dad had a horrendous time with a 90s audi). I keep going back and forth on whether to keep it till it dies, or to sell it soon while there's some value and buy a toyota/honda hatchback instead, probably with fewer miles, <80k or so. Would probably cost $8-9k, so out at least $4,000 cash to do the trade now, but of course also adding life to our car

My gut tells me the opportunity cost is not worth it, and it's better to not spend the money until we have to. But I also hate car repair bills. I'm looking into what I can do myself (bought one of those error message readers), and consider myself reasonable handy. With little/no knowledge of cars though.

What's a reasonable time to keep this fiddly, overengineered German timebomb?

edit: another problem is my wife will want a prius, which would cost $12k or more (minus golf value), but save some gas. Still not sure I can convince her to get a Fit

[dunhamjr]

just being a VW doesnt mean its a ticking timebomb.

i have owned MANY VW's, and still currently have one... plus a 90's audi as well.  most all of them were traded away for something new, none of them died of old age.  one was 91k, my nephew has it still running at around 140k.  one was 137k miles when it was rear ended, another was 160k miles when i sold it to a guy in IN.  anotehr one was sold to a guy on PDX at 196k. my audi has 158k.

reliability from the 90's to a 2004 is HUGELY different.

also consider that your wife is barely putting miles on the car "only used a few miles per day for commuting".
you can easily calculate out the math there.  i am not sure what 'a few' is to you... but... lets say 8miles/day, 5days/week, 52weeks/yr (no rest ;)).  2080 miles commuting, plus some miles for errands and weekends.  maybe 4k miles/yr.  NOT a lot.

trying to take a $3k Golf, and turn it into a $12k prius is going to cost you a lot of money up front, and the savings at only 4k miles per year is going to take a long time(if ever in your ownership) to cover that initial spend.

as long as nothing major is failing NOW, and you maintain it properly, i see no reason why your Golf wouldnt hit 200k.

[jmusic]

also consider that your wife is barely putting miles on the car "only used a few miles per day for commuting".
you can easily calculate out the math there.  i am not sure what 'a few' is to you... but... lets say 8miles/day, 5days/week, 52weeks/yr (no rest ;)).  2080 miles commuting, plus some miles for errands and weekends.  maybe 4k miles/yr.  NOT a lot.

This usage case is actually pretty hard on a car relative to the # of miles driven.  The starter, exhaust system, engine, and transmission will probably go before the "typical" time they're due. 

It would probably be wise to switch to a time-based rather than mileage-based maintenance schedule (i.e. oil changes every 4-6 months, transmission flush 1x per year, etc). 

[punctualalex]

I drive an '03 Jetta TDI, just rolled over 225k last week. It's been great for as long as I've had it, although if there was some wood in this thread I'd knock on it. Anecdotal evidence, I know, but a VW of that vintage is not necessarily a time bomb as long as you're careful with your regular maintenance and avoid the dealership whenever possible.

[dunhamjr]

This usage case is actually pretty hard on a car relative to the # of miles driven.  The starter, exhaust system, engine, and transmission will probably go before the "typical" time they're due. 

It would probably be wise to switch to a time-based rather than mileage-based maintenance schedule (i.e. oil changes every 4-6 months, transmission flush 1x per year, etc).

maybe so.  but i have had a very similar commute to this for the past 7 yrs or so.
the first car got 21k miles in 3.5 yrs.  not a single mechanical failure in that time.
the current car started at 127k miles, and is now at 139k miles almost 3 years later, and the only mechanical failure has been a crank pos sensor, and an o2 sensor.  BOTH of which fail on Saabs quite commonly just after the 100k mile mark anyways.

switching to time based maintenance likely makes sense, but i still think that a car driven short intervals even with 95k miles currently, can still easily hit 150k miles without major failures.
and going from 95->150 is going to be nearly MORE 14 yrs based on the assumed 4k/yr mileage.

[Frugal716]

I am in a similar situation with my wife's 2002 GTI. ~120k miles on the odometer and I'm dreading the day something major goes on us.

However, as the owner of an aging VW I cannot overemphasize the need to find a good INDEPENDENT VW repair shop. We were taking the GTI to a VW dealer for repairs and they were robbing us blind (and lying to my wife in the process...but that is a story for another day). After looking at the Car Talk Mechanics files we found a great independent shop.

I was planning to dump this car 2 years ago when the mechanics bills grew too large, but really we needed a new mechanic. First time I brought the car in to the new shop I mentioned the engine light was lit, the owner responded "It's a 10 year-old VW, I would be worried if it wasn't lit", and I knew I found the right place. Car has been running without a major problem ever since (check engine lights and all).

As long as your car is running reliably I would hold onto it, especially if you're only using it to run around town. Plus your car is almost fully depreciated, holding onto it is almost free!

[Scandium]

Thanks
I actually checked the map, and her commute to the bus is 11 mi round trip per day, so about 3k/year. Not much different from your number so I think the conclusion is the same though. We're pretty car dependent here so I recorded the odo this january and will check again in a year to get a real handle on it. I try to take this car when we go anywhere on the weekends.  But I can't imagine more than 6k/year.

Obviously with those numbers a prius doesn't make sense for the gas savings, which is why I wouldn't want to spend the money on one. It would make some sense for my commute, and she has said he could switch cars if we got one (despite her not liking driving my car). So there's also that.

But from a failure perspective it sounds like I shouldn't be too worried about the golf for at least another few years. Maybe at 150k and/or in 8 years or so I should think about it? I forgot to mention; it's also a manual, so that gives me hope since it's one fewer complex part.

[dunhamjr]

another thing to comment about... you said Golf.  so by that i take it to mean you have the 2.0 liter 4cyl model.

that engine is essentially a block of granite.  just keep up the maintenance on the oil, timing belt and it should be fine.

the GTI that was mentioned by the other poster however is little more temperamental, being either the 1.8l turbo or the vr6 engine.  both have a number of little maintenance items that fail much more regularly then the standard Golf engine.

[Scandium]

another thing to comment about... you said Golf.  so by that i take it to mean you have the 2.0 liter 4cyl model.

that engine is essentially a block of granite.  just keep up the maintenance on the oil, timing belt and it should be fine.

the GTI that was mentioned by the other poster however is little more temperamental, being either the 1.8l turbo or the vr6 engine.  both have a number of little maintenance items that fail much more regularly then the standard Golf engine.

yes I believe so. My wife got the most base base model when she bought it. 2.0 L, manual transmission. Had a bunch of annoying warning lights that kept popping up a while back. Something about oxygen and other sensors, and (I think) a scumbag mechanic and it cost a bit every time. Haven't seen it in a while though. I have my OBDII reader ready next time.

We do have an independent mechanic a mile from our house and I've been going there. They seem ok..  But what do I know. Closest VW dealer is 50+ mi away so out of the question anyway.

With the minimal depreciation at this point, and no collision insurance required, I do like the idea of running it into the ground. If we could even 8 more years out of it that would be awesome.

[jmusic]

With the minimal depreciation at this point, and no collision insurance required, I do like the idea of running it into the ground. If we could even 8 more years out of it that would be awesome.

Sounds like a plan! Just keep a line item in the budget for a replacement car down the road. :)

[hoodedfalcon]

Posting to follow and also offer anecdotal whatever...

I have a 2004 Golf TDI. The check engine light has been on periodically. First the mass air flow sensor which I dealt with eventually. Lately the turbo seems to be on the fritz. Cost to replace the turbo isn't worth it to me, so I am just going to drive it until it gives out. So far no problems unless I go to the mountains, and then not having a turbo is tricky but still manageable. Car has about 120K miles on it and I love it. Next the clutch or transmission will go, and I will figure out what to do with it then.

I recently debated the keep/sell issue, and I decided to keep. In part bc it will be difficult to sell a car with a check engine light that won't go away. But it's cool. I live 3 miles from work and I often go days without driving at all. I really don't need a car...

[dunhamjr]

Posting to follow and also offer anecdotal whatever...

I have a 2004 Golf TDI. The check engine light has been on periodically. First the mass air flow sensor which I dealt with eventually. Lately the turbo seems to be on the fritz. Cost to replace the turbo isn't worth it to me, so I am just going to drive it until it gives out. So far no problems unless I go to the mountains, and then not having a turbo is tricky but still manageable. Car has about 120K miles on it and I love it. Next the clutch or transmission will go, and I will figure out what to do with it then.

I recently debated the keep/sell issue, and I decided to keep. In part bc it will be difficult to sell a car with a check engine light that won't go away. But it's cool. I live 3 miles from work and I often go days without driving at all. I really don't need a car...

i have NOT looked close lately, but the MAF should be less than $200.  if you pull the connector and the car drives better its likely bad.
you CAN get a special cleaner for about $5-10 and try to clean it yourself.  can't hurt.

turbo replacements can be as cheap as $500 for parts.  how again is that not worth it?  and i cannot remember 100% since i didnt have a 04 tdi... but if that turbo has a vnt, it could just be the actuator or the boost control module going out.  much cheaper to sort out than a full turbo swap.

the manual trans in the TDI should be fine as long as you are not doing any stupid clutch dumps.

at 120k miles i sure hope you have done the timing belt set recently.  they max out at 100k mile change interval.

now the odd post.
you should probably get the CEL fixed and sell this car.  tdi's need to be driven hundreds or thousands of miles per month... not a handful here and there.  i hate to say it but your driving habit MIGHT be the cause for some of the CEL and turbo issues.  tdi's needs to get good an hot so that they burn their fuel and get it out the cat clean and efficiently.

you could probably get out of this 2004 Golf TDI and into a matching 2004 Golf 2.0 for half the money.

check out the forums on www.tdiclub.com for all the TDI information you could ever need.

fyi, i know a bit about vw's.  we are on our 5th TDI, and my 7th VW.

[hoodedfalcon]

Posting to follow and also offer anecdotal whatever...

I have a 2004 Golf TDI. The check engine light has been on periodically. First the mass air flow sensor which I dealt with eventually. Lately the turbo seems to be on the fritz. Cost to replace the turbo isn't worth it to me, so I am just going to drive it until it gives out. So far no problems unless I go to the mountains, and then not having a turbo is tricky but still manageable. Car has about 120K miles on it and I love it. Next the clutch or transmission will go, and I will figure out what to do with it then.

I recently debated the keep/sell issue, and I decided to keep. In part bc it will be difficult to sell a car with a check engine light that won't go away. But it's cool. I live 3 miles from work and I often go days without driving at all. I really don't need a car...

i have NOT looked close lately, but the MAF should be less than $200.  if you pull the connector and the car drives better its likely bad.
you CAN get a special cleaner for about $5-10 and try to clean it yourself.  can't hurt.

turbo replacements can be as cheap as $500 for parts.  how again is that not worth it?  and i cannot remember 100% since i didnt have a 04 tdi... but if that turbo has a vnt, it could just be the actuator or the boost control module going out.  much cheaper to sort out than a full turbo swap.

the manual trans in the TDI should be fine as long as you are not doing any stupid clutch dumps.

at 120k miles i sure hope you have done the timing belt set recently.  they max out at 100k mile change interval.

now the odd post.
you should probably get the CEL fixed and sell this car.  tdi's need to be driven hundreds or thousands of miles per month... not a handful here and there.  i hate to say it but your driving habit MIGHT be the cause for some of the CEL and turbo issues.  tdi's needs to get good an hot so that they burn their fuel and get it out the cat clean and efficiently.

you could probably get out of this 2004 Golf TDI and into a matching 2004 Golf 2.0 for half the money.

check out the forums on www.tdiclub.com for all the TDI information you could ever need.

fyi, i know a bit about vw's.  we are on our 5th TDI, and my 7th VW.

dunhamjr! Thank you so much for this. I did end up replacing the MAF after a few years cleaning it periodically. I can't seem to get a quote around here to replace the turbo for less than $1500, and it's way way beyond my skillset to attempt myself. When I first got the car I was driving much more - commuting over an hour each way and lots of 1K mile trips up and down the east coast. Now, not so much, other than a periodic 300 mile drive here or there. I recently had the module replaced after being told that was likely the issue, but no dice. From what I understand, it won't hurt to drive with a bad turbo? Is that correct?

Maybe you are right. Maybe it's time to sell. I did have a guy offer to buy it from me if I ever decided to sell, so maybe I should call and see if he is still interested. Not sure what the going price for a not so gently used 2004 Golf TDI with minor body damage is?