Sorry for all these separate posts, things just keep coming to me and I need to get them out.
I just feel so trapped. On the one hand she is trying hard. Even if to me or you it seems silly or completely wasteful, for her it is a struggle.
So I don't want to say 'let's get rid of the maid', or 'find a part time job' because I don't want to get her down. She feels like no matter how much she tries it's not good enough (for me perhaps?).
On the other hand, this is going nowhere. We either need to increase our income or reduce our spending. There's no other way. Any reduction in spending means another 'sacrifice' for her which leads to stress, sadness, whatever.
Well, it's not, is it? Because you're not happy with what she has done so far. First rule of communicating with a spouse: own up to the obvious. Every "helpful" suggestion of yours about how "she" can cut back you see as a logical solution, and she hears as a criticism of her efforts. No wonder your conversations don't go anywhere.
It sounds to me like you guys started from very different places/expectations and are talking different languages. You are assuming that your view of the world is correct, and that since she has a different view/expectation of what life is supposed to be, she is wrong, and therefore it's your job to convert her. You said it right up front: "I don't agree with why she's feeling that way." Dude, that is not your place -- you don't get to tell her how she feels. She is a fully-fledged independent human who is entitled to her feelings, whether you agree with them or not. The more you ignore that, the more you force her to double down to try to make you see.
This is a communication issue. If you want to move past this impasse, she needs to feel heard -- she needs to come away from your next conversation fully convinced that you respect her needs/wants/goals as much as your own. And that means talking feelings instead of dollars and cents. You say she feels like her efforts aren't enough; hear her out on that, and take a hard look at things from her perspective (e.g., are you patronizing, do you talk to her as if you're a parent/are the one with the authority, etc. -- I see you say you used to be on her back about this but have gotten better; women have long memories, so the subject probably still leaves her feeling defensive and attacked). Talk to her about your own feelings -- how your efforts never feel like enough, how you work so hard to provide a good life for her and the kids, and it hurts you that what you can provide isn't enough to provide her the lifestyle she wants. That every time her parents have to buy her clothes, it makes you feel like you're not enough for her. That you feel trapped on this never-ending treadmill, struggling as hard as you can just to keep your head above water, with no chance to ever get off because you can't save enough to allow you to retire in the foreseeable future. Or whatever your true, actual feelings are.
I think once you guys work through the feelings part and she actually feels heard and validated, you will be able to talk numbers with more progress. But it can't be about what *she* can fix -- start with what you yourself are willing to give up. You guys both have equal responsibility for getting you where you are now. She wants daycare + SAHM; you wanted a bigger house. How much more does that larger house cost you every month, in mortgage, taxes, upkeep, electric/gas, etc.? Is it worth it, or is it time to reconsider? Can you go down to a 1-car family and you bike to work every day? Etc. It's not a tit-for-tat thing, or who's more at fault than the other -- it's re-examining all of the choices that led you to where you are now and seeing which of them aren't making you as happy as you'd thought they would. (As an aside, it sounds like *both* of you think that the kinds of changes you personally can make are just a drop in the bucket -- that's the first mindset that has to change, because when the budget feels too tight, every penny counts). And for the love of Pete, start praising her for her efforts - catch her doing something right, and let her know you appreciate her sacrifices for the good of the team.
I know it sounds like I'm being hard on you -- I'm actually on your side here; being the sole breadwinner and working so hard for such little savings wouldn't be tolerable for me at all. But it just jumps off the page at me that you are approaching her as if you are The Decider, and that therefore your job is just to persuade her to your way of thinking, and if she won't come around, that is her problem. And that will get you nowhere fast -- you need to treat her as an equal partner with an equal voice in your *joint* goals. Start by trying to see things her way, approaching her with empathy and understanding and sharing her frustrations. If she grew up with maids and a SAHM and new clothes and all the trappings, you are asking her to live a life that she never expected and maybe doesn't find so compelling now that she's actually living it every day. So come together and approach this as a team, showing her that you are personally willing to try new approaches and change things up until you find something that makes you both happy. Because any life where one of you is not happy is not acceptable, period.
Laura with her usual amazing insight. Great post.
I'll add my own anecdotal experience FWIW.
First and foremost, you need to approach this as a TEAM. All of your posts are littered with "I do this" and "she does that" and "I wanted this" and "she buys that" and "I sacrifice by doing this" and "she still wants this." You each seem to have your own visions of what is ideal and they seem to be totally independent of one another. Seriously, you guys are married--you're a team!
When I first stumbled upon early retirement, I was eager to slash so much from our budget. To put it mildly, I completely overwhelmed my fiancee, and we made almost no progress in the first year. For instance, she loves her Toyota Rav4, and I mentioned selling it all the time (payment is $371). But that was her first big purchase as an adult, and she needs it for her job (she is a home health speech therapist). I approached this as "me me me" rather than see it from her point of view. She's kept it, and now she is about a year away from owning it free and clear.
I then approached things as a team exercise--how doing things would be of
mutual benefit. Instead of "you don't need this," it's, "Hey, cutting cable will save $90 per month, which we can save for our wedding. What do you think?" And we did this all the time by talking while taking walks in our local park. No joke, we've probably walked 200-300 miles while talking about financial goals/things we want to try.
Here are things we've accomplished in the past two years:
-Downgraded from DirecTV ($117 per month) to Sling ($20 per month, $40 per month during football season).
-She increased her 401k from 10% of income to almost 20% (put away $11k last year, twice as much as she'd ever done before)! Honestly so freaking proud of her.
-I went from $10k in 401k contributions to being on pace for the full $18k this year
-She pays utilities out of her checking (we are getting married in May). When I write her a check for my half, she deposits it into our joint savings or HSA account.
-She called and lowered her car insurance by about $15/month.
-She is about 15 months from paying off her car, and she is going to keep that thing for as long as it runs (previously used to talk about upgrading, but now I wash it and take care of it for her and she loves her car even more)
-Paid off her biggest federal student loan
-Gone from about $625 in monthly groceries to about $375
-Cancelled our gym memberships ($85/month) and bought an elliptical with cash
In summary, in 2014 we were probably averaging $3,400 in monthly expenses. By 2018 (her car payment and student loans should be paid off), we should be at about $2,200 per month.
Honestly, THIS WAS HARD WORK. Nothing happened overnight. All of this--even the simple things like picking up the phone to call the insurance company--was the product of constant dialogue and me VALUING HER OPINION. And I can tell you that she is loving this because she has felt part of the process.
It sounds like you and your spouse are each imposing things on one another--including emotional baggage--without much productive dialogue and seeing it from each other's point of view.
So my recommendation is for you to entirely reframe how you are approaching this. You need to SHOW HER, not tell her, that doing things will be of
mutual benefit because of X, Y, Z.