Author Topic: Any Mustachians from HI out there?  (Read 6142 times)

Allie

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Any Mustachians from HI out there?
« on: May 27, 2015, 10:35:47 PM »
I was hoping to pick your brain!

In the next few years, our family is hoping to relocate from the frigid north to a tropical paradise.  I'm hoping to find some Hawaii living mustachians who will let me ask a few questions to get a better feel about how we should structure our budget and how much we should expect to spend, which of course will effect our move date!  :)

Anyone able to give me an idea about the cost of groceries, utilities, and such?  We are pretty flexible knowing that cost of living will go up and we will have to really revamp our diet and daily life to make the most of what your state has to offer.  Just looking for some real numbers to plug into my calculations.  Employment is not something we are worried about, so it would just be numbers for expenses.

Thank you!

Here are some things I am hoping to get a sense of...

If I were to go to Costco, how much is a 25lb bag of flour, gallon of milk, 2.5 lb of cheese block, case of TP, jar of peanut butter, lb of ground beef?  Are there better alternatives to those things?  We have a mostly vegetarian family of 4.

Are there any hunting/gathering/fishing/gleaning opportunities on the big island?  Where we are this is a huge part of our life, so I'm just curious.

How much is energy per unit and what do people usually use for energy (specifically on the big island in south kona area or Hilo)?

Anything else we should consider?  We plan to rent a place, so hope to have no costs associated with housing upkeep...

ltt

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Re: Any Mustachians from HI out there?
« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2015, 04:12:30 AM »
Here is a blog which may give you some comparisons to what you are paying on the mainland.  They moved to the big island.  Note, that this family only lasted a few years in Hawaii, which I understand is the norm.  Just too expensive for many people.  Also, some of the things they did and wish they had done when they moved.  Take time to read through their blog--great advice is given. 

http://entersandland.com/2012/03/27/cost-of-living-in-hawaii/



« Last Edit: May 28, 2015, 04:21:47 AM by ltt »

ltt

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Re: Any Mustachians from HI out there?
« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2015, 04:32:05 AM »
Here's another blog--has cost of utilities, groceries, etc.  They also live on the big island.  She has a good post on jobs, school, and medical.

http://living-in-kailua-kona.com/2011/08/cost-of-utilities-in-hawaii/
« Last Edit: May 28, 2015, 04:36:11 AM by ltt »

chasesfish

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Re: Any Mustachians from HI out there?
« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2015, 05:34:40 AM »
I think there are a ton of posts on this topic, but the recurring theme is the same:  If you have to earn a living, its tough because there are too many people competing for a few jobs.

I've looked at this over and over, but the only place I can work from is downtown Honolulu and that has zero appeal to me.  Maybe when I retire...

nereo

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Re: Any Mustachians from HI out there?
« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2015, 06:06:06 AM »
"Hi" back!
I moved to the big island  (kailua-kona) for a year before moving back to 'the mainland' several years ago.   My brother still lives in Hilo.
I don't have exact figures to give you because it's been several years, but here are my impressions
1) anything that's brought over from the mainland (which is almost-but-not-quite everything) costs roughly 50% more.  This includes everything from cereal to gasoline.  Hawai'ii is expensive
2) electricity - honestly I never paid much attention because we used so little. It's very easy to use comparitively little electricity.  You can pretty much choose the temperature zone you want to live in (elevations between 2,000-5,000 feet are frequently called the 'hauli latitudes' because mainlanders tend to live there because it's cooler).  Unless you are at considerable elevation you can go completely without heat, and I never had (or wanted) air conditioning.
3) few things that are cheap - fresh produce (particularly papayas and guavas... I don't think we ever bought one when i lived there becasue people were always giving them away), good coffee, some fish.  Check out the wonderful farmers markets for awesome deals.

4) yes you can get a fishing license for very little money (i think it was $8 when I was there per year) but most of what you'll want to catch you need a boat for - reef fish are largely protected or unpalatable.  We caught a number of ono, mahi-mahi and jack working off boats. Lots of people catch marlins, but that always seems more for sport than food to me (and I don't really get 'sport' fishing anyway).
5) many of the local stores have two pricing schemes - one for 'locals' and another for 'haulis'.  The advertised price is what you will pay, but often the guy in front of you (a large Polynesian-looking guy) will be charged less.  It's prejudiced and not-legal, but it is just a fact of life living there.  Accept it and move on.
6) if you are white (or really anything other than Polynesian) you will never be "from" there... even after you've lived there for many years.  You will always be "from the mainland," even if you have no more roots there.
7) regarding renting - there are some good opportunities to rent private vacation homes from rich people who are only there a few weeks each year and just want a caretaker.  It means you have to be willing to move out for a week or two with sometimes just a couple days notice, but several of my friends did this.  They simply went on extended camping trips when they had to move out (Hawai'i has lots of good campgrounds with full facilities).  Otherwise, start searching for places that are away from the shoreline (which is the most expensive).  You can get much better deals by living just 2-3 miles inland, and you can still bike to the beach very easily.

Allie

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Re: Any Mustachians from HI out there?
« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2015, 12:32:36 PM »
Thank you so much for the replies and website links! 

We are starting from a high cost of living area, so I think the sticker shock will be less pronounced and employment will be of only minimal concern if something happens and our plans completely fall apart.  Plus, AK and HI are usually lumped together when figuring out shipping premiums and extra costs, so I'm used to having a limited selection/higher costs compared to the contiguous US. 

Accepting that the Native peoples have a community and ties that I won't be part of is another place where living in AK is very similar in some ways and I am comfortable with that; I wouldn't like white Americans much either if I were in their shoes. 

We know that our costs will shift considerably as the environments are completely different, just having an idea where we will need to be flexible is very helpful!!

nereo

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Re: Any Mustachians from HI out there?
« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2015, 01:03:50 PM »
Also, you might want to ask Nords for his opinions (send him a PM) - although if I remember correctly he's on Oahu.

Nords

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Re: Any Mustachians from HI out there?
« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2015, 11:03:00 PM »
E komo mai!

I'm on Central Oahu and I haven't been over to the Big Island for a few years.  However I can point you to even more links:
http://the-military-guide.com/2013/04/15/lifestyles-in-hawaii-hawaii-island-the-big-island/
(Also the "related links" at the bottom of that post)
http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/tropical-beach-retirement/msg632685/
http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/real-estate-and-landlording/cheap-tropical-property!-with-free-lava-tsunami-hurricanes-and-earthquakes/msg392802/

And you might want to start following Big Island newspapers:
http://www.westhawaiitoday.com/
http://www.hawaiitribune-herald.com/

Anyone able to give me an idea about the cost of groceries, utilities, and such?  We are pretty flexible knowing that cost of living will go up and we will have to really revamp our diet and daily life to make the most of what your state has to offer.  Just looking for some real numbers to plug into my calculations.  Employment is not something we are worried about, so it would just be numbers for expenses.
As you say, the unhappy malihini are those who try to recreate their previous lifestyle.  It's expensive to eat Mainland food here, but if you're shopping local then you'll do fine.  Vegetarian actually makes it a bit easier because you're not going to buy as much meat. 

As an example, I'd suggest that you stop drinking cow's milk and eating boxed cereals.  Most of the state's milk is flown in frozen from the Mainland, although there are local farmer's markets that might occasionally have cow's milk.  (I don't know for sure, but I think all the Hawaii dairies shut down a few years ago.)  Almond or soy milk is cheaper by the gallon when cow's milk costs $5-$7/gallon-- especially when cow's milk goes bad.  Oatmeal and Cheerios are cheaper than Kellogg brands.

If I were to go to Costco, how much is a 25lb bag of flour, gallon of milk, 2.5 lb of cheese block, case of TP, jar of peanut butter, lb of ground beef?  Are there better alternatives to those things?  We have a mostly vegetarian family of 4.
I can look for those numbers next time we're at our local Costco, but I'm not sure about the Big Island.  Between Costco and Wal-Mart, as well as customer loyalty programs, your "eating local" food expenses will be roughly the same or about 25% higher. 

Other examples of eating local are replacing some bread products with rice, Mainland potatoes with Okinawan or sweet potatoes, peanut butter with sunflower or almond butter, and ground beef with ground turkey or tofu.  You'll find all sorts of yummy local veggies.  Fruit is easy to grow-- our backyard has coconut, mango (two kinds), bing cherry, tangerine, mandarin orange, lemon, guava, lychee, kumquat, and papaya.  They seem to all ripen at 2:45 PM Tuesday, but they're all tasty. 

I recently saw lychee for $6/pound but last year I must have given away a hundred pounds from our tree just to keep them from rotting on the ground (or getting eaten by the wild green parrots).

Are there any hunting/gathering/fishing/gleaning opportunities on the big island?  Where we are this is a huge part of our life, so I'm just curious.
Yes.  If you hunt or fish then get licenses.  Hawaii's gun laws are pretty strict but bow hunting is also popular.  Wild pigs, feral goat, axis deer, and feral chickens are a pest-control problem.  Most of the fishing is open-ocean but there are coastlines that are not part of a marine preserve. 

I don't know specific gleaning opportunities, but you'll be able to learn more at farmer's markets.  Some of it is "pick your own" while others will barter produce for labor.  I think the Big Island is better for this than any of the other islands.

How much is energy per unit and what do people usually use for energy (specifically on the big island in south kona area or Hilo)?
HELCO charges between 40-50 cents/KWHr.  It depends on oil prices, although LNG is starting to bring that down a little.  You will almost certainly have a solar water heater and perhaps a photovoltaic array.  If you live at certain altitudes with your house oriented to the tradewinds then you won't need heating or cooling.  But if you're living on a coastal plain in Puna or up in the hills (around Volcano National Park) then you'll use a lot of ceiling fans or wood stoves. 

Depending on whether you come here from a cold climate or a hot/humid one, the first year here will seem extremely hot or cold.  By the second year you'll adapt and use less energy to maintain your comfort zone.  If you live at sea level and air-condition your house to 72 degrees then your electric bill will be $400/month.  If you're a few hundred feet higher with tradewinds and open windows then your electric bill will be around $150/month.  With a photovoltaic system it'll be under $50/month.

The nice thing about solar water heaters is that they're sized for homes of two adults with three teens.  80-120 gallons at 150 degrees can keep up with just about any teen hygiene.  Our water heater is only below 110 degrees for about three days in January.

Anything else we should consider?  We plan to rent a place, so hope to have no costs associated with housing upkeep...
Renting is a most excellent idea.  You'll want to do that for at least a year (to get to know the neighborhoods) and perhaps for as long as it takes to find a sweat-equity bargain.

Be careful about the geography.  Rents in the Puna (southeast) area tend to be cheaper because some of the homes are in lava fields with water-catchment cisterns, septic leach fields, and photovoltaic arrays.  Rent is cheap but if the rains stop and you have to have the water truck deliver your drinking water, then the cost of living skyrockets.  The Volcano area (in the center of the island) is cheaper but much cooler and with longer drives to Hilo or Kailua-Kona.  If you don't need to commute to a job then you might prefer the Hilo area (much like 1960s Hawaii).  Rents on the Kailua-Kona side tend to be much higher due to the resort areas, and there's also easier access to shopping.  But you might also find it easier to score house-sitting or vacation rental bargains in Kailua-Kona.

5) many of the local stores have two pricing schemes - one for 'locals' and another for 'haulis'.  The advertised price is what you will pay, but often the guy in front of you (a large Polynesian-looking guy) will be charged less.  It's prejudiced and not-legal, but it is just a fact of life living there.  Accept it and move on.
6) if you are white (or really anything other than Polynesian) you will never be "from" there... even after you've lived there for many years.  You will always be "from the mainland," even if you have no more roots there.
Let me offer the non-racist interpretations of these observations.

Hawaii retailers give kama'aina discounts to those with Hawaii driver's licenses or state ID cards.  Grocery stores (other than Costco and Wal-Mart) also have loyalty cards with a barcode that's scanned at checkout.  You even get the "codeword" from the newspaper ads to pass to the cashier for the "secret specials".

The islands have a predominantly Asian culture (American-Japanese) with a large dose of the Hawaiian Renaissance.  Family is very important, and when you're working a long week then you tend to spend more time with family than with neighbors.

The state also gets a lot of snowbirds and other transients who move here with high hopes for short terms.  A notorious stereotype is the rich entertainer or tech exec who bids up the local real estate prices, frequently buying Hawaii trophy properties as a second home, and attempts to import Mainland culture as "philanthropy".  These efforts tend to alienate the long-time residents and leads to what in the military is known as "new guy syndrome".  If you've lived here for decades then you're not going to waste your time getting to know the new people until you can tell that they're going to stay here for a while... at least after 3-4 years.  If the new people are more concerned with racing around the island for entertainment instead of getting to know the neighbors, then they won't acculturate very well.  But if your kids play together, and you walk the neighborhood most evenings, and you ask them about the farmer's market or local festivals, then you'll find yourself among friends.

As for skin color... I know seventh-generation descendants of haole missionaries who are "local" enough to out-pidgin some of their native Hawaiian friends.  I also know people of all skin colors who constantly tell us how things are done on the Mainland, and nobody really wants to talk to them. 

My parents-in-law lived here for nearly seven years to watch their granddaughter grow up.  They were born in the 1930s.  During their time here my FIL casually referred to neighborhood adults in their 20s as "kids" and was occasionally overheard referring to his "Jap" neighbors.  When he said aloha or mahalo his pronunciation had quotes around them.  Whenever my MIL heard pidgin she would immediately make assumptions about the person's intelligence and education level, and start speaking loudly and slowly with simple words.  (I'll just skip over the scene where she discovered that her only granddaughter spoke pidgin.)  They were perpetually telling anyone who would listen about all the years they'd lived in the Washington DC area and all of the things they'd seen with FIL's job in CBS TV there.  They never really made an attempt to adapt to local foods or local music or local TV.  They even made fun of the journalistic quality of the local newspapers compared to the Washington Post and the NYT. 

After several years they suddenly realized that they didn't have any friends here and didn't get along with the neighbors.  Shortly after that they moved back to the Mainland.

If you attempt to adopt the local culture here, your efforts will be rewarded.  If you're constantly comparing the island lifestyle to somewhere else, though, you'll be disappointed.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2015, 11:04:59 PM by Nords »

Allie

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Re: Any Mustachians from HI out there?
« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2015, 02:46:36 PM »
nords - that was great!  I am really hoping our plans work out!  If they don't it will likely be because something else amazing stepped in our path, but HI just seems like such a different, but delightful adventure. 

I recall shopping in Kona a couple years ago and not being surprised by the prices at Walmart.  More being surprised that I wasn't surprised.  I even bought some extra summer dresses for our daughter because they were simple and comfy and comparatively inexpensive.  But, I was buying supplies (jar of spaghetti sauce, juice, etc.) for a couple weeks of meals in our rental, not the bulk staples of our normal life (dry beans, flour, etc.).

From what I can tell about the housing and utilities, it will be about the same as our current situation, same with groceries if we make good choices just trading 5 dollars for a gallon of milk instead of 5 dollars for a tomato!

We are a couple years out from doing a full move, but I already have visions of solar ovens and feral chickens dancing in my head!

nereo

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Re: Any Mustachians from HI out there?
« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2015, 03:09:12 PM »
nords - I'm really glad that you wrote that post, in particular the addendum to my #s 5 & 6.
Looking back my short reply can be interpreted as really harsh, and not true in all circumstances. I certainly had trouble fully integrating into the island community, in no small part because i can be introverted. It certainly didn't help that I had no children, no family and had very little connection to the community other than the people I worked with (every one of them mainland transplants within the last 3-5 years).   Having known literally dozens of people who moved from California to Hawai'i, I've seen a lot of people who failed to integrate well. They tended to crash and burn, returning to the mainland disappointed.  There's certainly reason on both sides for why this is, and I believe the "new guy syndrome" has increased the skepticism of newly settled haulis.
As for skin color - i really did feel like i was at a disadvantage at times when walking into a new place.  It's impossible to say how much of this was real and how much was just imagined, but it did feel like store employees, bartenders, etc. would help someone more 'polynesian' before me.  I tried not to let this anger me, and just resigned myself to thinking 'until i know people, this is the way it is.'
perhaps i shouldn't have said "you will never be 'from there'" and instead said "you need to make an effort to join the local community to be accepted, and things won't go well if you try to hang onto the foods/culture/patterns of the mainland".


rpr

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Re: Any Mustachians from HI out there?
« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2015, 04:39:36 PM »
I was hoping to pick your brain!

In the next few years, our family is hoping to relocate from the frigid north to a tropical paradise.  I'm hoping to find some Hawaii living mustachians who will let me ask a few questions to get a better feel about how we should structure our budget and how much we should expect to spend, which of course will effect our move date!  :)

Anyone able to give me an idea about the cost of groceries, utilities, and such?  We are pretty flexible knowing that cost of living will go up and we will have to really revamp our diet and daily life to make the most of what your state has to offer.  Just looking for some real numbers to plug into my calculations.  Employment is not something we are worried about, so it would just be numbers for expenses.

Thank you!

Here are some things I am hoping to get a sense of...

If I were to go to Costco, how much is a 25lb bag of flour, gallon of milk, 2.5 lb of cheese block, case of TP, jar of peanut butter, lb of ground beef?  Are there better alternatives to those things?  We have a mostly vegetarian family of 4.

Are there any hunting/gathering/fishing/gleaning opportunities on the big island?  Where we are this is a huge part of our life, so I'm just curious.

How much is energy per unit and what do people usually use for energy (specifically on the big island in south kona area or Hilo)?

Anything else we should consider?  We plan to rent a place, so hope to have no costs associated with housing upkeep...

I live on the Big Island on the Hilo side. Most of my comments are about living on the Hilo side.

It is not as touristy as it rains a fair bit here -- more than 100 inches/year. But usually there is always periods of both rain and sun. It rains more in the winters but even that rain does not feel cold. 

Groceries on the Big Island are even more expensive than Oahu. On the east side, there is no Costco. The only one on the island is a long drive away in Kona. But there is also a store here that does stock some of the bulk items, and Kirkland brand items as well. On average, I find groceries to be around 50% higher. But if you are vegetarian, the farmers market is a great option where vegetables and fruit are reasonably inexpensive.

If you are vegetarian, there is not as much choice in eating out. Good for the wallet ;)

Electricity is expensive (around $0.40 per kWh). It's been higher in the past. We moved to solar PV a few years ago when the state had quite generous incentives and tax rebates.

Gas is expensive as well. Public transportation is not frequent. You can walk or bike but the roads are narrow and if you live uphill, hauling groceries on a bike can be challenging.

Rents on the east side are reasonable but the quality of the housing may leave much to be desired. Most of the houses in town are on the smaller side when compared to the US mainland. For example, a 3bed/2ba house  would be about $1200-$1300 rent on  average. If you lived further away, you could get cheaper rents but subdivisions can start to get quite rough. i.e. dirt roads, catchment water systems, lack of services such as no mail delivery etc. Plus commute can be bad at peak hours if you work in town.

Couple other things:
-- I don't have kids but have heard that the public high schools are not as good.
-- Access to health care is very poor. There are very few specialists on the island. This means very long waits to get appointments or need to fly to Honolulu.

I'd be happy to answer any other questions.

Nords

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Re: Any Mustachians from HI out there?
« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2015, 06:43:44 PM »
nords - I'm really glad that you wrote that post, in particular the addendum to my #s 5 & 6.
Looking back my short reply can be interpreted as really harsh, and not true in all circumstances. I certainly had trouble fully integrating into the island community, in no small part because i can be introverted. It certainly didn't help that I had no children, no family and had very little connection to the community other than the people I worked with (every one of them mainland transplants within the last 3-5 years).   Having known literally dozens of people who moved from California to Hawai'i, I've seen a lot of people who failed to integrate well. They tended to crash and burn, returning to the mainland disappointed.  There's certainly reason on both sides for why this is, and I believe the "new guy syndrome" has increased the skepticism of newly settled haulis.
As for skin color - i really did feel like i was at a disadvantage at times when walking into a new place.  It's impossible to say how much of this was real and how much was just imagined, but it did feel like store employees, bartenders, etc. would help someone more 'polynesian' before me.  I tried not to let this anger me, and just resigned myself to thinking 'until i know people, this is the way it is.'
perhaps i shouldn't have said "you will never be 'from there'" and instead said "you need to make an effort to join the local community to be accepted, and things won't go well if you try to hang onto the foods/culture/patterns of the mainland".
We have a big problem here with celebrity entitlement behavior:
- Persistent complaints about a lack of airport services on Oahu & Maui for private jets. 
- In the 1990s for his wedding, Bill Gates booked every single freakin' hotel room on Lanai.  Most of them remained unoccupied.  The purpose was to lock out the media, who were reduced to commuting from Maui.
- Larry Ellison buying Lanai and the main airline that services the island.  The jury's still out on him.
- John McAfee splashing money all over Molokai and getting frustrated when locals did not defer to his rezoning requests.
- Paul McCartney closing a public beach access by his property for "security".
- Genshiro Kawamoto being chauffered in a limo all over Kahala, buying two dozen homes from its back seat (for cash) and renting them back.  Later he moved his tenants out and tried various projects like "free rent to Native Hawaiians" and "art parks" while letting vacant homes be vandalized.  He essentially ruined Kahala property values for 25 years.  He sold out last year and Kahala is returning to its usual over-the-top homes & prices.
- Oprah Winfrey buying Thompson Ranch on Maui and another ranch in Hana.  She runs retreats and conferences out of Thompson Ranch, and residents are worried about business development.  But she's also bringing jobs to residents, including organic produce farming.  It's an uneasy compromise.
- Mark Zuckerberg buying Hawaii trophy property.  The jury's still out on him.

I'm sure that for every celebrity I've mentioned above, there are dozens who behave politely and get along great with their neighbors and never make the news-- Mick Fleetwood and Graham Nash are two who come to mind.  But it just takes one or two "carpetbagger" types to ruin it for every other Hawaii resident who grew up somewhere else.  You hear comments in the surf lineup like "Eh, I grew here-- you flew here!"

As for your being in the new places:  "It's not personal, it's just business."  When you're the new guy walking into a business, they're going to take care of the local customers first.  Nobody knows whether (or how much) you're going to buy, or when you're going to be back.  Meanwhile the locals can make or break a business.

We used to have an Oahu department store called Liberty House.  It was founded in the 19th century and did a great job taking care of its local customers until the 1980s... when the Japanese visitor industry went nuts with the strong yen and the big spenders.  To be fair, most of Waikiki and other Oahu stores catered to that sector of the visitor industry because it was so profitable.   (Free shopping shuttles still run from Waikiki hotels "all the way" out to Waikele Premium Outlet stores, a 35-mile round trip.  Even Home Depot carried a line of 240v/50Hz appliances with "free" shipping to Japan.)  However Liberty House had a reputation of leaving locals standing in the aisles while the staff chatted with the Japanese visitors (frequently in Japanese) at the registers.  It made the local newspapers many times.

When the Japanese bubble popped in 1990, it quickly became apparent that locals stayed away from Liberty House in droves.  A few years later it was taken over by Macy's. 

Another local issue to consider:  nepotism.  Not every local business is like this, and not every family behaves in this manner.  But there is still a cultural belief among Asian countries that it makes more sense to hire & train a loyal family member than it would to bring in a hotshot Harvard MBA outsider.  I would submit that there's a strong American culture of that belief, too.

Couple other things:
-- I don't have kids but have heard that the public high schools are not as good.
I get a lot of school questions.  I'll point out a couple of differences:
- The main factor in student performance is parental involvement.  That will overcome a bunch of bad school problems.  The world's best schools cannot overcome apathetic (or absent, or hostile) parents.
- The Hawaii school system is part of the state govt, not local districts.  State money is distributed more evenly than in other states where schools are funded by local property taxes or revenue bonds.  However it's a state bureaucracy and the money tends to be directed toward schools in poorer districts or with lower standardized test scores.
- Hawaii has over 250 officially recognized languages.  Language barriers (and readiness to learn) are significant issues.
- Kids in elementary school (across the nation) are all over the bell curve in learning abilities.  It's a very broad & flat curve with very fat tails.
- The best classes in high school are the advanced classes, especially AP.  Hawaii state teachers earn higher pay for earning advanced degrees and for teaching AP classes. 

I'm a member of Hawaii Angels, and I hang out with a lot of parents of students at Punahou, Kamehameha, I'olani, and other private schools.  We all bitch about the same issues.  One of those parents is currently paying over $240K per year to send his four kids to private high schools and Mainland universities.  But he's already financially independent.

Our experience with our daughter confirmed our public school observations.  She attended two different public elementary schools, and they were both good in most areas, and not-so-good in a few areas.  She managed to graduate at the top of her class from one of the state's largest public high schools.  That (along with a bunch of achievements outside of school) got her into a top-five engineering university.  She noticed that she wasn't as "ready for college" as the graduates from Thomas Jefferson High School (one of the nation's best), but she also noticed that she was doing better than some of her classmates from Hawaii's private schools.  I noticed that she went to college with freakishly brilliant young adults, and many of them struggled even at that age with work-life balance.  They did not surf, either.

-- Access to health care is very poor. There are very few specialists on the island. This means very long waits to get appointments or need to fly to Honolulu.
Another big problem. 
It's considered routine for the neighbor islands to airlift trauma patients to Oahu. 
There's a notorious lack of dialysis clinics all over the state for those dealing with kidney disease. 
Veteran's care on the neighbor islands is very sparse. 
Telemedicine is helping with some of the issues (like reading MRIs and CAT scans).  However there's a long way to go.

rpr

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Re: Any Mustachians from HI out there?
« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2015, 07:06:14 PM »
Nords -- thank you for your perspective. I agree with everything you said.

surfhb

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Re: Any Mustachians from HI out there?
« Reply #13 on: June 01, 2015, 07:31:33 PM »
Wow!   I just learned more about Hawaii in 10 mins then I have my entire life.    what a special place it is.

 Thanks

Nords

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Re: Any Mustachians from HI out there?
« Reply #14 on: June 01, 2015, 08:39:24 PM »
Wow!   I just learned more about Hawaii in 10 mins then I have my entire life.    what a special place it is.

 Thanks
You're welcome!  For surfers we have the advanced curriculum:
http://the-military-guide.com/2011/08/29/lifestyles-in-military-retirement-surfing-photos/

surfhb

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Re: Any Mustachians from HI out there?
« Reply #15 on: June 01, 2015, 08:42:37 PM »
Wow!   I just learned more about Hawaii in 10 mins then I have my entire life.    what a special place it is.

 Thanks
You're welcome!  For surfers we have the advanced curriculum:
http://the-military-guide.com/2011/08/29/lifestyles-in-military-retirement-surfing-photos/

Surfing and naps....that would take up about 70% of my retirement schedule

Allie

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Re: Any Mustachians from HI out there?
« Reply #16 on: June 01, 2015, 11:26:55 PM »
This is such amazing information.  The more I read, the more I think the transition will be reasonably painless.  I really appreciate the time you have taken to explain in more detail the cultural dynamics and factors that impact healthcare, schools, etc.  Since we aren't starting from the lower 48, having the background and details makes a huge difference in our planning. 

I am very hopeful we can get everything to fall into place.  To this point, everything in the universe has been conspiring to keep us cold.  Hopefully there won't be a huge tsunami or depression in the next couple years and we can finally move south.  How lovely to be able to learn to surf, garden in the tropics, let my kids run around bare foot, spearfish (someone said this is a thing people do, is it?) and on and on. 


Nords

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Re: Any Mustachians from HI out there?
« Reply #17 on: June 02, 2015, 06:29:42 PM »
This is such amazing information.  The more I read, the more I think the transition will be reasonably painless.  I really appreciate the time you have taken to explain in more detail the cultural dynamics and factors that impact healthcare, schools, etc.  Since we aren't starting from the lower 48, having the background and details makes a huge difference in our planning. 
Sounds good, you're welcome!

Every time I put one of these responses together, I get more material for the next "E komo mai" blog post...

Hopefully there won't be a huge tsunami or depression in the next couple years and we can finally move south.  How lovely to be able to learn to surf, garden in the tropics, let my kids run around bare foot, spearfish (someone said this is a thing people do, is it?) and on and on.
Tsunami:  stay away from Hilo Harbor and you should be fine.  The warning network is the best it's ever been.  Twitter is surprisingly real-time during tsunami warnings, too... the local TV news stations are practically reading tweets during their "live" reports.  My spouse (a retired meteorologist and disaster readiness expert) and I have spent hours at the Pacific Tsunami Museum in Hilo-- a very interesting place and a kid-friendly experience.  Note the irony of its location:  http://www.tsunami.org/index/index.html

The economic version of "depression" can also be interpreted as "bargain real estate".  If you don't need to have a job here then you're relatively immune to the effects of a recession.  The meteorological version of "depression"... you'll have a well-developed hurricane checklist.  It's the price of paradise.

There are plenty of places to learn to surf here, especially if you're around Kailua-Kona resorts.  Or check with a lifeguard at the beach nearest you for the safest place to learn.
Another resource is Franko's Maps, which you can order online or find at most souvenir shops:  http://www.frankosmaps.com/hawaii-big-island-guide-map
I'm an investor in the company, but I learned about them through their Oahu surfing guides.  Quality product.  The CEO, Peter Cannon, grew up here and has been selling the maps for over a decade.

If you're a serious gardener then start with the website of the agricultural extension of UH:  http://www.ctahr.hawaii.edu/ougc/  Their guides will help you avoid the rookie mistakes.  You'll also find plenty of other gardeners on the Big Island, for fruits & veggies as well as ornamentals.  Composting and vermiposting are also popular here.

Barefoot = luau feet.  During the 26 years we've been here, my shoe size has grown 1-2 sizes larger and from a "medium" to "extra wide".  I've donated my old dress shoes to Goodwill, and these days I wear rubber slippers or a pair of Rockport walkers.

I've never personally spearfished, but I've enjoyed lots of yummy catches from friends who do:  http://dlnr.hawaii.gov/dar/fishing/fishing-regulations/
When a spearfisher asks if you'd like some tako, it's not about Mexican cuisine...