Author Topic: My Scheduled Standoff with My Universal Life Insurance Agent.  (Read 9560 times)

peterthebee

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Hey everyone,

I've scheduled an appointment with my Thrivent Life Insurance agent, because I want to cancel my Variable Universal Life II policy, and potentially move another Flex Prem Deferred Variable Annuity IRA to somewhere else, like Vanguard or Betterment. I've been terrible with money maters my whole life but luckily haven't made too many horrible choices. Recently after getting a financial kick in the rear end I decided enough is enough, I'm going to figure this all out the best I can.

I actually wanted to straight up cancel the VUL, but the guy in essence wouldn't let me without meeting with me first, so I'm playing along. He even jokingly called me a Ramsey-ite because I mentioned I read "Total Money Makeover" as well as other finical blogs/books recently.

So, here's my question.. What can I expect to hear from this guy as he tries to convince me to not surrender the policy? and how should I be prepared to respond?

I have until next wednesday to prepare myself for this debate of sorts, and fully intend to read as much as I can (including searching this forum).

A little more about me:

- I'm in my 30's, married, with two young kids.
- I make between 100-130 a year depending on commissions.
- I've got 90k in a SIMPLE IRA
- A house that I still owe around 260k on.
- Some credit and other small debts that should be cleared up in ness than a year, now that we're being smart with our money.

About my Thrivent Policies:

- Variable Universal Life II (Death Benefit $750k - Cash Value $10,500, Surrender Value - $8,612.19 Plus taxes on gains?)
(payment on this is $150 a month since 2008... Actually I think it was a lot more in the beginning, but we reduced after a year or so.)

- Flex Prem Deferred Variable Annuity (IRA Cash Value $36,488 - Minimum Guaranteed Interest 2%)

StockBeard

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Re: My Scheduled Standoff with My Universal Life Insurance Agent.
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2015, 03:58:06 PM »
I don't know about that specific life insurance, but here are a few things he might go with (I've had that discussion not so long ago with an "advisor" for a life insurance product):

- emphasis on the "life insurance" part of the investment: your other investment solutions don't cover your family if you die, please freak out and stay with us

- Surrender cost: if you give up now, you'll actually lose money, please freak out and stay with us, at least for a few years
(also known as "we're protecting you from yourself. The surrender cost is here so that you don't stop saving money all of a sudden")

- Your math is wrong, our policy actually doesn't cost as much as you calculated, and is comparable in price to similar products. please stay with us

- Because this is a life insurance, tax efficiency this or that. You should stay with us

- This product is personalized to your situation. We actually have other offerings similar to [Vanguard/Betterment/etc...], but our analyst concluded that this was the best choice for your long term life goals.

- Other advice you've received (on the internet) to get off this policy usually comes from people who have cancelled that policy themselves, people who cannot stay focused on their investment plans, shot themselves in the foot for that, and now think that this is a bad product, when in reality it's them who couldn't stay the course. You're better than that.

- I have sold this product for 12 years and all my clients are extremely happy with it, many of whom retired extremely rich. You are making a mistake.

- The competitor product you're thinking of is not insured against X or Y

johnny847

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Re: My Scheduled Standoff with My Universal Life Insurance Agent.
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2015, 04:01:17 PM »
There is no need to debate this insurance agent. You are a customer. You owe the company absolutely no explanation for why you wish to stop being a customer.

Don't waste your time debating with your insurance agent. Just go in and stand firm that you wish to cancel your policy. When/if you are asked why, tell them you don't owe any explanation. Just take your money and leave.

cdttmm

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Re: My Scheduled Standoff with My Universal Life Insurance Agent.
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2015, 04:09:04 PM »
Following.

Earlier today I decided that I need to have the same conversation with my Northwestern Mutual insurance agent regarding my Adjustable CompLife plan. This conversation ought to be extra painful considering my insurance agent is a friend. Ugh.

StockBeard

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Re: My Scheduled Standoff with My Universal Life Insurance Agent.
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2015, 04:11:58 PM »
Don't waste your time debating with your insurance agent. Just go in and stand firm that you wish to cancel your policy. When/if you are asked why, tell them you don't owe any explanation. Just take your money and leave.
I'd second that. It's their job to make you stay in the insurance plan, they have hundreds of hours of experience keeping people in the insurance plan, so you won't be able to compete, they'll have an answer for everything.

deborah

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Re: My Scheduled Standoff with My Universal Life Insurance Agent.
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2015, 04:12:36 PM »
Why are you even having this discussion. You don't need to have it. You can just sign the forms and get Vanguard to take the money and set you up.

Paul der Krake

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Re: My Scheduled Standoff with My Universal Life Insurance Agent.
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2015, 04:20:13 PM »
What you say doesn't matter. They've heard it all and have perfected dozens of comebacks for every issue that you raise, essentially wearing you out. For life insurance products, expect many mentions of your family and how leaving them without protection makes you a monster.

There's no reason for you to spend time and money to visit their office where they have home field advantage. If they truly will not let you cancel the policy without this meeting, your insurance commissioner's office would like to hear from you.

NoraLenderbee

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Re: My Scheduled Standoff with My Universal Life Insurance Agent.
« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2015, 04:20:44 PM »
Why are you even having this discussion. You don't need to have it. You can just sign the forms and get Vanguard to take the money and set you up.

^^^ This. You can take your business elsewhere. You do not owe anyone an explanation.

The meeting is to allow the agent to sell you as hard as possible on staying with them. It's not done out of friendliness or for your own good; it's purely to make them money. You do not have to sit through an hour of hard sell just so someone can try to get more of your money for something you already know you don't want.

Treat it like business. Cancel the meeting. Sign the forms and send them to Vanguard (or wherever you choose). They will happily take care of it all for you.

northernlights

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Re: My Scheduled Standoff with My Universal Life Insurance Agent.
« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2015, 04:22:43 PM »
We definitely have the same policy...sigh. Let us know what happens!

Singularity

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Re: My Scheduled Standoff with My Universal Life Insurance Agent.
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2015, 04:37:13 PM »
How about start a term life insurance before you cancel your Universal life and just tell him you have been replaced with a more efficient product.


trailrated

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Re: My Scheduled Standoff with My Universal Life Insurance Agent.
« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2015, 04:49:22 PM »
Make sure you set up a term life insurance policy before you cancel the universal one. Other than that you don't owe this guy jack shit. He is just trying to meet in person to scare you into keeping the shit products that you already have with him. Why put yourself through a hard sell, awkward situation if you already made up your mind? That is like breaking up with a girlfriend then after going to talk with them a few times to tell them it is really over when you know they are just trying to get you to stay. It is done, move on, you owe them nothing.

Open an account with vanguard and give them the info for the company and they will handle getting all the funds transferred for you. No awkward face to face meeting, no hard sell, no being berated by an asshole that sold you shitty products and took generous sums of your money for the privilege of doing so.

peterthebee

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Re: My Scheduled Standoff with My Universal Life Insurance Agent.
« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2015, 05:13:01 PM »
I suppose I should just cancel the meeting, but he's not a jerk. I guess I want to know the arguments to educate myself more. I'm pretty certain I don't want VUL, but I don't pretend to all about life insurance.

Also, he's supposed to quote me term insurance at this meeting. I don't dislike the guy, just the product.

StockBeard

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Re: My Scheduled Standoff with My Universal Life Insurance Agent.
« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2015, 05:16:41 PM »
he's not a jerk
My financial "advisor" was also a great guy. We would talk about our hobbies, our personal lives, what we did for holidays or for the weekend. I was an easy target: discussing money made me uncomfortable, and he was fine discussing anything with me as long as it was not "I'd like to get out of this life insurance you sold me".
It's his job to keep you in the plan, him being nice could be a byproduct of that. Just because the guy is a nice person (for real, or faking it) doesn't mean he didn't sell you a crappy product.

MaggieDrsg

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Re: My Scheduled Standoff with My Universal Life Insurance Agent.
« Reply #13 on: July 28, 2015, 07:48:18 PM »
How long have you had your annuity?  There were a variety of prospectuses on their website, and I couldn't tell exactly which variable deferred annuity you have..  Do you also have a GLWB Risk Charge or Maximum Anniversary Death Benefit or any other additional pieces you pay for other than something that may say "basic death benefit fee" or "mortality and expense charge"?

laughing_paddler

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Re: My Scheduled Standoff with My Universal Life Insurance Agent.
« Reply #14 on: July 28, 2015, 08:10:11 PM »
We definitely have the same policy...sigh. Let us know what happens!

following. double sigh. we've got some too- a result of believing "if it was good enough for my dad..." (who's got some serious mustachian qualities so I thought I was doing something smart).

I was all geared up to cancel ours this spring but never got around to it... what am I waiting for?

CommonCents

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Re: My Scheduled Standoff with My Universal Life Insurance Agent.
« Reply #15 on: July 28, 2015, 08:14:51 PM »
I tried to cancel mine (twice) by phone.  I got lazy and never followed through with it in the end, but all you need to do is send in the paperwork.  I have it and can email it to you if you PM your address.

I got stuck when they said I had a guaranteed (min?) rate of 4% because I got it so young.  I meant to look up whether that was really good or not, and never did.  Anyone know?  Anyways, that's $2500 in my pocket once I do so, so I need to get on it.

MidWestLove

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Re: My Scheduled Standoff with My Universal Life Insurance Agent.
« Reply #16 on: July 28, 2015, 09:28:43 PM »
"Why are you even having this discussion. You don't need to have it. You can just sign the forms and get Vanguard to take the money and set you up.
^^^ This. You can take your business elsewhere. You do not owe anyone an explanation. "

+2 not sure if you post makes any sense - you do not owe any explanations or convincing or discussion or whatever to the agent. He/She works for you, period, end of sentence. if you want to for them to inform you on something, you can opt for it. otherwise, their job is to do what you said (ordered).  there is no stand off, all of the decision power belongs to you.



GeneralJinjur

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Re: My Scheduled Standoff with My Universal Life Insurance Agent.
« Reply #17 on: July 28, 2015, 09:56:24 PM »
So, here's my question.. What can I expect to hear from this guy as he tries to convince me to not surrender the policy? and how should I be prepared to respond?

If you insist on having the meeting, use one of my favorite Homer Simpson quotes.

Salesman: But surely you can't put a price on your family's lives!
Homer: I wouldn't have thought so either, but here we are.

Potterquilter

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Re: My Scheduled Standoff with My Universal Life Insurance Agent.
« Reply #18 on: July 29, 2015, 05:44:49 AM »
If you insist on meeting him get quotes for term life from various sources before you go. 

Also, do not forget if you have minor children, there is a social security benefit if you die that will go to them monthly.  A friend of ours got checks when her kids were minors. He had a good life insurance policy from work so she put that money each month into a college fund. Go to their website to check out that info too. Even if it is not much, that can factor into your decision of how much money you might need from term insurance. Also do you have life insurance from work? 

Set the account up where you Intend to transfer the money before you go. When we moved various old IRA's etc to vanguard they did all the work and kept us informed.

Lastly the best life insurance you can have is a paid off house ( or money to pay it off if if you are one of those people who feels a mortgage is right for you) no debt and money saved.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2015, 05:46:49 AM by Potterquilter »

peterthebee

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Re: My Scheduled Standoff with My Universal Life Insurance Agent.
« Reply #19 on: July 29, 2015, 06:29:30 AM »
How long have you had your annuity?  There were a variety of prospectuses on their website, and I couldn't tell exactly which variable deferred annuity you have..  Do you also have a GLWB Risk Charge or Maximum Anniversary Death Benefit or any other additional pieces you pay for other than something that may say "basic death benefit fee" or "mortality and expense charge"?

I've had the annuity since 2008.. not sure on the GLWB (don't even know what that is) or Max Death, or or charges..

peterthebee

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Re: My Scheduled Standoff with My Universal Life Insurance Agent.
« Reply #20 on: July 29, 2015, 06:31:24 AM »
Salesman: But surely you can't put a price on your family's lives!
Homer: I wouldn't have thought so either, but here we are.

HAHA.. that's great.

peterthebee

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Re: My Scheduled Standoff with My Universal Life Insurance Agent.
« Reply #21 on: July 29, 2015, 06:36:31 AM »
+2 not sure if you post makes any sense - you do not owe any explanations or convincing or discussion or whatever to the agent. He/She works for you, period, end of sentence. if you want to for them to inform you on something, you can opt for it. otherwise, their job is to do what you said (ordered).  there is no stand off, all of the decision power belongs to you.

I hear what you're saying.. I wrote it up as a standoff, to be dramatic! I figure if he pleads his case, I will just be more informed. I suppose the trap would be if I get convinced to not cancel it.

I assume I would not be able to secure/qualify for term insurance by our meeting next week (which people suggest I do before canceling) so right now my two options would be:

1. Postpone the meeting until after I do secure the term insurance I want.. then just pull the rug out from underneath him canceling it with no explanation.
2. Start quoting term, including whatever he quotes me for term, take the meeting and try and learn with out getting suckered.

peterthebee

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Re: My Scheduled Standoff with My Universal Life Insurance Agent.
« Reply #22 on: July 29, 2015, 06:39:52 AM »
If you insist on meeting him get quotes for term life from various sources before you go. 

Also, do not forget if you have minor children, there is a social security benefit if you die that will go to them monthly.  A friend of ours got checks when her kids were minors. He had a good life insurance policy from work so she put that money each month into a college fund. Go to their website to check out that info too. Even if it is not much, that can factor into your decision of how much money you might need from term insurance. Also do you have life insurance from work? 

Set the account up where you Intend to transfer the money before you go. When we moved various old IRA's etc to vanguard they did all the work and kept us informed.

Lastly the best life insurance you can have is a paid off house ( or money to pay it off if if you are one of those people who feels a mortgage is right for you) no debt and money saved.

I don't think I have life insurance from my work, it's a small company.. but I'll look into it today.

also.. the term coverage would be enough to pay off the house, and yes we are currently paying off all other debts.. should be free and clear in less than 12 months :)

Capsu78

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Re: My Scheduled Standoff with My Universal Life Insurance Agent.
« Reply #23 on: July 29, 2015, 10:33:35 AM »
I said to my NW rep (who I like) that "  You know, that whole not mixing insurance products with investments products advice that lots of folks seem to be giving " ... He stopped his pitch in his tracks as he realized I was listening to some anti mixed insurance product folks- Ramsey, Orman, whoever.

Also I had good luck replacing my NW term with AAA- more coverage, better price- but it did take a month to get set up with an in office physical, blood draw etc.  build that timeline into your transition.

Trudie

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Re: My Scheduled Standoff with My Universal Life Insurance Agent.
« Reply #24 on: July 29, 2015, 11:23:52 AM »
I have no technical advice to offer other than to reiterate that you don't even owe this guy your time.  When you're on his turf he will drag things out and make you uncomfortable.   Line up your new term policy (they will be more than happy to guide you through the cancellation paperwork) and just send him the paperwork.  Tell him you have a better solution.  Tell him you don't have the time.  Again, you owe him NOTHING.

Life's too short for stand-offs like this.  Really.  Take the hour he would have spent wasting your time (not to mention the time you've probably wasted worrying about it.  And now we're commenting!  HA!) and do something nice for someone else.  Take a lonely person out to coffee.  Anything.  But.  This.

regulator

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Re: My Scheduled Standoff with My Universal Life Insurance Agent.
« Reply #25 on: July 29, 2015, 11:33:07 AM »
+2 not sure if you post makes any sense - you do not owe any explanations or convincing or discussion or whatever to the agent. He/She works for you, period, end of sentence. if you want to for them to inform you on something, you can opt for it. otherwise, their job is to do what you said (ordered).  there is no stand off, all of the decision power belongs to you.

I hear what you're saying.. I wrote it up as a standoff, to be dramatic! I figure if he pleads his case, I will just be more informed. I suppose the trap would be if I get convinced to not cancel it.

I assume I would not be able to secure/qualify for term insurance by our meeting next week (which people suggest I do before canceling) so right now my two options would be:

1. Postpone the meeting until after I do secure the term insurance I want.. then just pull the rug out from underneath him canceling it with no explanation.
2. Start quoting term, including whatever he quotes me for term, take the meeting and try and learn with out getting suckered.

Huge vote for option #1.  Line up new term coverage, get bound, and cancel the UL policy.  It is a rip-off and the agent will do anything to keep you since he is the one ripping you off.

peterthebee

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Re: My Scheduled Standoff with My Universal Life Insurance Agent.
« Reply #26 on: July 29, 2015, 02:44:46 PM »
Huge vote for option #1.  Line up new term coverage, get bound, and cancel the UL policy.  It is a rip-off and the agent will do anything to keep you since he is the one ripping you off.

Canceled our meeting for next wednesday, he asked about rescheduling it but I plainly responded "I'm not looking to reschedule it" and "I'll contact him if I have any more questions"

The wife and I are planning on going through this process, tonight and tomorrow, to figure out how much term we need:

http://momanddadmoney.com/how-much-life-insurance-do-you-need/

Then we will start shopping around.

Thanks everyone for the advice!

ps. is there a way to subscribe to posts?

deborah

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Re: My Scheduled Standoff with My Universal Life Insurance Agent.
« Reply #27 on: July 29, 2015, 02:59:52 PM »
ps. is there a way to subscribe to posts?
Use the "send this topic button" at the bottom of the page

snuggler

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Re: My Scheduled Standoff with My Universal Life Insurance Agent.
« Reply #28 on: July 29, 2015, 03:05:03 PM »
Huge vote for option #1.  Line up new term coverage, get bound, and cancel the UL policy.  It is a rip-off and the agent will do anything to keep you since he is the one ripping you off.

Canceled our meeting for next wednesday, he asked about rescheduling it but I plainly responded "I'm not looking to reschedule it" and "I'll contact him if I have any more questions"

The wife and I are planning on going through this process, tonight and tomorrow, to figure out how much term we need:

http://momanddadmoney.com/how-much-life-insurance-do-you-need/

Then we will start shopping around.

Thanks everyone for the advice!

ps. is there a way to subscribe to posts?

Awesome! You just saved yourself an hour of nonsense. Congrats! Pour yourself a glass of wine to celebrate :).

trailrated

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Re: My Scheduled Standoff with My Universal Life Insurance Agent.
« Reply #29 on: July 29, 2015, 03:55:26 PM »
Huge vote for option #1.  Line up new term coverage, get bound, and cancel the UL policy.  It is a rip-off and the agent will do anything to keep you since he is the one ripping you off.

Canceled our meeting for next wednesday, he asked about rescheduling it but I plainly responded "I'm not looking to reschedule it" and "I'll contact him if I have any more questions"

The wife and I are planning on going through this process, tonight and tomorrow, to figure out how much term we need:

http://momanddadmoney.com/how-much-life-insurance-do-you-need/

Then we will start shopping around.

Thanks everyone for the advice!

ps. is there a way to subscribe to posts?

Cheers to you!

TrMama

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Re: My Scheduled Standoff with My Universal Life Insurance Agent.
« Reply #30 on: July 29, 2015, 04:00:11 PM »
Good for you!

Another strategy I use for dealing with pushy salespeople is to play the "broke" card. I flat out tell them I have no money and if they don't cancel the service immediately my payments will start bouncing.

It shuts them up and gets the to do what I want without any more sales pitches.