My mom is broke and in a tough spot

[diggingout]

I wish I had the time to reply to each and every one of you!  Thank you SO much for your advice.  You all state things far more eloquently than I ever could.  I'm not sure what my mom is planning on doing, but she did ask me to cosign on a loan for her and I turned her down as I felt uncomfortable carrying my car loan, her car loan, and my student loans when my fiance and I plan on getting a mortgage next year.  I feel incredibly guilty and still want to find a way to lend her my car for a while.  She's obviously helped me so much and got into this situation for overextending herself for my brother and I.  Trust me, it's not for material possessions.  She bought a $3k car and all her furniture is 15+ years old.  It was mainly her medical bills and then my brother's situation that got her into this mess.  She had not given me any money for school when she filed the bankruptcies.

[norabird]

I disagree that the $400 wasn't reasonable for the mom to pay. Throwing a loan into default is breaking the terms of the loan and she was right to try and ameliorate the situation.

OP, can you get her some books on boundaries? Overextending oneself is not a viable long-term plan.

[mlejw6]

A high deductible health plan is generally going to cost a lot for someone with many health problems, as it sounds like your mom has. Does she have any other health insurance options? Has she calculated if the total cost is worth it? I know many people that work for my company only have a HDHP and no other option and they don't like it.

Open enrollment is going to start soon, so it may be worth it to consider another option, if available.

[partgypsy]

Maybe I'm off base, but when my alcoholic (and sometimes drug using) brother moved into my mother, her finances took a turn for the worse, and she had much less income than your mother does. To help her, sit down and work out a budget. find out where every dollar goes. Maybe he isn't using anymore, but maybe she will also see supporting your brother may be something she cannot afford.

My mother is in a very similar situation, except with much less income. At some point you may need to walk away. If you do end up becoming well off enough you can help by paying her back for how she helped with your college, do it by paying a bill of hers,  not cash.

[Classical_Liberal]

My perspective, coming from a dysfunctional family, including siblings with addiction issues, etc...  I think your mom's financial situation is only a symptom of a larger emotional/psychological problem. 

My opinion is that no amount of financial help will do any long term good, rather I would focus on encouraging her/be supportive of her getting help.  Some help can be free (a previous poster had suggested al alon), others like counseling may have a small cost.  If you feel the need to help her financially in the near term, this is what I would offer to pay.

As far as the money your mom has paid you, this is a personal moral judgement on your part.  You are the only one that can decide if it's something you should somehow pay back in the future.  Personally, I can certainly see how you feel were wronged.  The unannounced BK (given you could have rectified the loan situation with warning), coupled with poor parental advice on school, would probably have me resentful and feeling owed as well. If you decide that you should "repay" her, I like the advice another poster gave.  Save 24K (less any counseling/mental health support fees you help with in the interim) and invest it so that you have money to help your mom in the future.  The path she is on; poor health, stress, lack of finances, means that unless she chooses to change, in the next few years she will likely be unable to work.  Then you will have a mom on disability, with expensive medical bills and no other means to support herself.  You can repay her then when she will need the money to maintain a forced, but very basic lifestyle.

Lastly, if you haven't already, make sure you take care of your own mental health.  I don't know you personally, but coming from a family making dysfunctional choices like this rarely leaves one unscathed.  Invest the time, energy and money (if need be) in yourself to make sure your future life and relationships are healthy.  This investment will produce returns far exceeding any index fund.

Good luck my fellow life traveler!

[Goldielocks]

and I'm not the one who put the loan there in the first place.  It's a very confusing situation

.
I can definitely understand that having to repay in 5 years instead of 25 is a huge problem not your fault...

But you must have co signed for the lenders to come after you, so both of you put the loan in place, and both agreed to repay it in whole, even if the other defaults. The problem is that your mom did not describe what you were signing and then broke a personal promise to you.

[mlejw6]

My perspective, coming from a dysfunctional family, including siblings with addiction issues, etc...  I think your mom's financial situation is only a symptom of a larger emotional/psychological problem. 

My opinion is that no amount of financial help will do any long term good, rather I would focus on encouraging her/be supportive of her getting help.  Some help can be free (a previous poster had suggested al alon), others like counseling may have a small cost.  If you feel the need to help her financially in the near term, this is what I would offer to pay.

As far as the money your mom has paid you, this is a personal moral judgement on your part.  You are the only one that can decide if it's something you should somehow pay back in the future.  Personally, I can certainly see how you feel were wronged.  The unannounced BK (given you could have rectified the loan situation with warning), coupled with poor parental advice on school, would probably have me resentful and feeling owed as well. If you decide that you should "repay" her, I like the advice another poster gave.  Save 24K (less any counseling/mental health support fees you help with in the interim) and invest it so that you have money to help your mom in the future.  The path she is on; poor health, stress, lack of finances, means that unless she chooses to change, in the next few years she will likely be unable to work.  Then you will have a mom on disability, with expensive medical bills and no other means to support herself.  You can repay her then when she will need the money to maintain a forced, but very basic lifestyle.

Lastly, if you haven't already, make sure you take care of your own mental health.  I don't know you personally, but coming from a family making dysfunctional choices like this rarely leaves one unscathed.  Invest the time, energy and money (if need be) in yourself to make sure your future life and relationships are healthy.  This investment will produce returns far exceeding any index fund.

Good luck my fellow life traveler!

Yes to all of this. I, too, was wondering if a mental condition is affecting mom's decisions and her inability to take responsibility. And, please take care of yourself. You can suggest to your mom that she see a therapist, but she may not listen. The easiest thing you can do is take care of yourself, both to keep from being a burden, and also to set yourself up to help in the future when SHTF (I mean, even worse than now).

[With This Herring]

and I'm not the one who put the loan there in the first place.  It's a very confusing situation

.
I can definitely understand that having to repay in 5 years instead of 25 is a huge problem not your fault...

But you must have co signed for the lenders to come after you, so both of you put the loan in place, and both agreed to repay it in whole, even if the other defaults. The problem is that your mom did not describe what you were signing and then broke a personal promise to you.

The problem is that Mom, besides overextending her own finances, actively pushed DiggingOut into a similarly bad financial place.

Summary of College Loan Issues

DiggingOut was looking at colleges.  DiggingOut wanted to go to community college.  Mom said "Go to this expensive college; I will cover the costs."  DiggingOut takes out student loans, one of which was cosigned by Mom.  DiggingOut is making payments on all loans.  Suddenly, DiggingOut learns that Mom has declared bankruptcy, sending DiggingOut's $25K loan into default.  If DiggingOut had known ahead time, DiggingOut could have gotten Mom removed as cosigner and still had 25 years to pay the loan.  Instead, DiggingOut was surprised and now the loan payments must be accelerated.  Mom starts making $400/month payments to DiggingOut toward the loan, as it is Mom's fault that the loan defaulted.

Note that the $24K total that Mom gave DiggingOut is still far less than the promised "I will cover your schooling after pushing you to attend a much more expensive college."

Sources:

I really was hoping for unsnarky advice as my mom told me she'd pay for my college when I went.  She then realized she couldn't after I graduated with $90k in student loan debt.  She was the co-signer on one of my private college loans so when she filed for bankruptcy, that loan had an auto default clause if one of us filed for bankruptcy.  Just finishing college, I did not have $25k to pay the loan back immediately, so since the loan was due and owing upon the completion of her bankruptcy repayment, she offered to pay that one student loan for me as I took it out thinking I had much, much more time to pay it back.  So she paid for $25k of my education, and I have been paying the other $65k + interest.  Regardless, I mentioned I do not have the money to give her and don't receive any assistance anymore.  I can't stop her from giving money to my brother.  I've told her a zillion times, but how many parents do you know that would just give up on their children?  Easier said when it's not your child addicted to drugs, I guess.

Actually, there was a way to release her as my cosigner had she given me any warning.  My mom advised me to take out the loans.  I wanted to go to community college, but my mom wanted to brag that I was going to a top university and insisted that if I went to college, I'd be making amazing money no matter my major, but here I am making $55k after 6 years of being in my career.

As it is, I don't know what you can do to help your mother if she is unwilling to cut costs where possible.  You can give her all the typical suggestions of switching to a much cheaper prepaid cell plan, cutting cable, and looking for cheaper housing as different apartments come into circulation, but it doesn't looks like she is willing to make these changes.  I think her situation will get worse before it gets better.

If she gets rid of cable, there are often many current movies available at the library.  I don't know if that will help convince her.

[LeRainDrop]

With This Herring nailed it all.  I totally agree about the student loan issues you laid out.  That's why I was incredulous seeing some people telling DiggingOut to pay that money back to his mom.  She needs to make the tough choices NOW before things get worse.  Any financial help DiggingOut gives her in the meantime would only do two things -- (1) prolong his mother's financial ineptitude and delay her from resolving the core problems, and (2) cause new hardships for himself.  Also, Netflix would be a cheaper alternative to cable if she refuses to let go of TV.  Hell, she could watch the local networks for free with just a pair of rabbit ears (or whatever newfangled technology there is now).

[SKL-HOU]

With This Herring nailed it all.  I totally agree about the student loan issues you laid out.  That's why I was incredulous seeing some people telling DiggingOut to pay that money back to his mom.  She needs to make the tough choices NOW before things get worse.  Any financial help DiggingOut gives her in the meantime would only do two things -- (1) prolong his mother's financial ineptitude and delay her from resolving the core problems, and (2) cause new hardships for himself.  Also, Netflix would be a cheaper alternative to cable if she refuses to let go of TV.  Hell, she could watch the local networks for free with just a pair of rabbit ears (or whatever newfangled technology there is now).

While I don't think it was all the mom's fault, I also don't think OP should pay his mom back or help her financially. If she cannot survive on 103k salary, there is no way to help her.

(I thought the OP was a female, not sure why, I guess I was wrong?)

[LeRainDrop]

(I thought the OP was a female, not sure why, I guess I was wrong?)

Or I could be wrong -- I don't know!

[frugaldrummer]

Phones: $350 (she pays for hers, my brother's and boyfriend's) - obviously this should go, but it won't

WTF???

I pay for myself, two of my kids, and my boyfriend on my T-mobile cell phone account.  That includes payments for a couple of nice phones (iPhones) and a luxurious amount of data. Definitely NOT Mustachian.  Not even close.  And still, I only pay about $220!