The Money Mustache Community
Learning, Sharing, and Teaching => Ask a Mustachian => Topic started by: diggingout on September 27, 2016, 11:54:29 AM
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Hey all -- it's been a while. I don't know if I'm posting this more to vent, or to gain some perspective. My mom (and the rest of my family) has always been really horrible with money. She filed for bankruptcy once in my early 20s. She then filed for bankruptcy a second time in my mid 20s. The second bankruptcy filing was Chapter 13 bankruptcy, so she has been paying $900 a month for the past 5 years. She will finally be done with this in February 2017. She was so close to the finish line, but of course, everything she owns is very old. Recently, her TV died and she financed a new one for $1200 (made me so mad). She also has a lot of medical expenses, and had to credit $800. So now she's $2k in debt. She earns good money - about $103k per year, gets a $5k bonus after taxes each year, and just started working two part-time jobs last month (Barnes & Noble and Dick's Sporting Goods). The part-time jobs just break my heart because she has SO many health issues and her doctor says she's the perfect candidate for a heart attack. I feel like at 52, she should be more focused on trying to better her health by eating better and getting some exercise in. However, her financial situation prevents her from doing so. She's living paycheck to paycheck because admittedly, she was assisting me with $400 a month for 5 years (I'm not receiving help anymore); $900 a month toward her Chapter 13 repayment; $1250 a month for rent (she has two large dogs and this was the only place that would rent to her in her small town); my brother has a drug addiction for which she has had to pay much of his treatment/rehab; repairs to her very old car; and lastly, her healthcare bills along with the two dogs' bills too (one is 12 and the other is 2, but has very bad eyes); and then obviously utilities/cell phones/gas/groceries/household goods/etc.
My brother is now working a minimum wage job and still lives with my mom, but they have to share a car because obviously no one will give her a loan. Unfortunately, my brother got into a car accident the other morning and totaled their one and only car. Thankfully, everyone is alright. But now they have no car. My mom has no money saved and can't get a loan. My brother also has a horrible financial history of writing bad checks, overdraft fees that were never paid back, owes the IRS $8,000.00, etc. I have great credit, but feel very uncomfortable taking out a loan for them, but how do I let my mom potentially lose her jobs because she has no way to get to work? Her auto insurance covers a rental for a week, so that's how much time she has to figure out what to do.
I don't personally have the money to give her, unfortunately, otherwise I would in a heartbeat. Has anyone else been in a similar situation? What direction can I give her?
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So you owe your mom $24k with interest? Can you pay her back?
You can tell your mom to stop giving away money and to chase you and your brother for the amount owed.
Might also consider get rid of the dogs (put them up for adoption) if money is so tight.
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If you're unable to pay back the money your mom gave you, would you be willing to drive her to work? Or loan her your car while you bike?
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I really was hoping for unsnarky advice as my mom told me she'd pay for my college when I went. She then realized she couldn't after I graduated with $90k in student loan debt. She was the co-signer on one of my private college loans so when she filed for bankruptcy, that loan had an auto default clause if one of us filed for bankruptcy. Just finishing college, I did not have $25k to pay the loan back immediately, so since the loan was due and owing upon the completion of her bankruptcy repayment, she offered to pay that one student loan for me as I took it out thinking I had much, much more time to pay it back. So she paid for $25k of my education, and I have been paying the other $65k + interest. Regardless, I mentioned I do not have the money to give her and don't receive any assistance anymore. I can't stop her from giving money to my brother. I've told her a zillion times, but how many parents do you know that would just give up on their children? Easier said when it's not your child addicted to drugs, I guess.
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If you're unable to pay back the money your mom gave you, would you be willing to drive her to work? Or loan her your car while you bike?
I just replied to a comment about the money my mom gave me was for a student loan she was a co-signer on. I would be MORE than willing to drive her to work, except my mom lives out of state. Not an option. I also would give her my car, but I live a half hour from my job driving (45 mins-1 hour with traffic), and can't bike to work at the time being.
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She earns $103,000 per year, and is having this many issues?
Honestly....I'm not sure I'd do anything. Because I don't think you buying her a car, giving her yours, driving her yourself, or whatever, is really going to do any good. Obviously, I don't know their situation personally. Before you do anything I'd ask yourself if you're truly helping or just enabling.
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There’s really not much you can do here as you indicate that you do not have the funds to help her get a new loan or car, and her high income will almost certainly prevent her from qualifying for assistance programs.
I would look up public transport options for her – see if she is near a train or bus route, and then maybe foot the bill for a monthly pass. There is no way she or your brother can mismanage a monthly pub transport pass. Hopefully there is pub transport available near her. Even if she has to walk to a bus stop, or make a couple transfers, it will fix the immediate problem and will let her keep her job for the time being. If not, she might have to have an emergency conversation with some coworkers who live nearby to see if she can arrange a carpool situation until she has enough money to buy a car. There is really no other way unless she works within walking distance and can manage the hike.
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I also think she's making way too much money to be in that situation, are you sure she/they are not gambling or losing money in some other way you don't know?
+1 for public transport.
Also you seem to feel bad that she helped you pay for college, but has the money she helped you with been the same amount she's spent on your brother's recovery? It even seems like a really small amount compared to it. So don't feel bad, she's probably in that situation because of your brother's issues rather than your schooling.
I wouldn't get a car for them as I agree with the enabling comment from tomorrowsomewherenew, how do you know your brother won't crash it again because he was on drugs/didn't care/didn't pay for it? also your help will make him never really get a better paying job and keep his min wage one because you're gonna be there for them anyway.
It seems like a currently bad situation, but how is it gonna be in the (near) future if you keep on helping them out? is it gonna be a one-time thing, or will they come for you everytime they have to file for bankruptcy again?
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Maybe she could carpool with someone from work or try Uber carpool, if it's available in her area.
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A $90k education doesn't get you a decent paying job these days?
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Mom is 52 and competent enough to hold three jobs, so obviously understands her predicament, yet fails to do anything about it.
What little help you can offer is only putting a band aid on a gaping chest wound. She needs to act.
I'm betting there is plenty of low hanging fruit that could be quickly picked to lessen her problems.
1. Get rid of the dogs, immediate savings.
2. Freeloader son starts paying rent and contributing towards groceries, buys his own cell phone, clothing, etc., or leaves.
3. Drop cable TV and internet service, retain only a simple track phone.
4. Sell what's left of the car and cancel car insurance.
5. Cut up all credit cards, use debit card, cash & checks.
6. Move to someplace cheaper if possible.
7. No eating out or ordering take home food.
Unless she is someplace very rural she can use a taxi service or public transportation to get to work until she can get back on her feet and get an automobile.
Tough times call for tough decisions.
Best thing you could do is put paying off student debt on the fast track and get that off of her back.
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Maybe she could carpool with someone from work or try Uber carpool, if it's available in her area.
I'll suggest that. She is well respected and liked at her job. I'm sure someone will be willing to help her out for a little while.
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A $90k education doesn't get you a decent paying job these days?
Unfortunately, nope! Especially when universities charge per credit hour no matter your major. I was a liberal arts major and it took me until 29 to be earning >$60k. I was earning entry level <$30k for a loooong time, which makes it hard to get on your feet when you're paying $800 a month in student loans. Regardless, this post isn't about me...just was hoping for some insight on what advice I could offer my mom. My username is diggingout for a reason...I was on the same path as the rest of my family until I came across MMM less than a year ago. Unfortunately, my mistakes are going to take longer than a year to fix!
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Mom is 52 and competent enough to hold three jobs, so obviously understands her predicament, yet fails to do anything about it.
What little help you can offer is only putting a band aid on a gaping chest wound. She needs to act.
I'm betting there is plenty of low hanging fruit that could be quickly picked to lessen her problems.
1. Get rid of the dogs, immediate savings.
2. Freeloader son starts paying rent and contributing towards groceries, buys his own cell phone, clothing, etc., or leaves.
3. Drop cable TV and internet service, retain only a simple track phone.
4. Sell what's left of the car and cancel car insurance.
5. Cut up all credit cards, use debit card, cash & checks.
6. Move to someplace cheaper if possible.
7. No eating out or ordering take home food.
Unless she is someplace very rural she can use a taxi service or public transportation to get to work until she can get back on her feet and get an automobile.
Tough times call for tough decisions.
Best thing you could do is put paying off student debt on the fast track and get that off of her back.
I've suggested these to her so many times. It's hopeless. Her excuse is always the same. TV is her entertainment since she can't afford to do anything else. I'll give it another whirl! Thanks for the advice :)
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I really was hoping for unsnarky advice as my mom told me she'd pay for my college when I went. She then realized she couldn't after I graduated with $90k in student loan debt. She was the co-signer on one of my private college loans so when she filed for bankruptcy, that loan had an auto default clause if one of us filed for bankruptcy. Just finishing college, I did not have $25k to pay the loan back immediately, so since the loan was due and owing upon the completion of her bankruptcy repayment, she offered to pay that one student loan for me as I took it out thinking I had much, much more time to pay it back. So she paid for $25k of my education, and I have been paying the other $65k + interest. Regardless, I mentioned I do not have the money to give her and don't receive any assistance anymore. I can't stop her from giving money to my brother. I've told her a zillion times, but how many parents do you know that would just give up on their children? Easier said when it's not your child addicted to drugs, I guess.
k you won't like this - but you accepted money from your Mom and now that you're done you don't want her to give either of you money any more? Obviously drugs is not a good thing to spend money on, but helping a child with rehab at least has the potential to help them, much like a college education. I don't see any snark, either. Snark isn't the same as not liking what someone has to say. For what it's worth, I am sorry your mother is in this spot. It seems like she is trying (and tried) to help both her children.
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She earns $103,000 per year, and is having this many issues?
Honestly....I'm not sure I'd do anything. Because I don't think you buying her a car, giving her yours, driving her yourself, or whatever, is really going to do any good. Obviously, I don't know their situation personally. Before you do anything I'd ask yourself if you're truly helping or just enabling.
+1
She should have more than enough to cover rent, $900 repayment and $2000 a year in costs to replace household goods. ?
This is not about the repayment, as you already know. Can you talk to your brother to get him to stop pulling money?
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Agreed. Is 103k just from her main job or does it include her side gigs as well?
We make less than your mother and pay much more rent, and we can save over $1k a month. What in the world does she spend all her money on? Does rehab cost that much?
I guess my point is, the expenses you list don't exceed her income. She should be able to afford all this stuff (unless rehab is way more than I'm thinking... I have no idea how much that costs). What is she spending all her money on?
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Mom is 52 and competent enough to hold three jobs, so obviously understands her predicament, yet fails to do anything about it.
What little help you can offer is only putting a band aid on a gaping chest wound. She needs to act.
I'm betting there is plenty of low hanging fruit that could be quickly picked to lessen her problems.
1. Get rid of the dogs, immediate savings.
2. Freeloader son starts paying rent and contributing towards groceries, buys his own cell phone, clothing, etc., or leaves.
3. Drop cable TV and internet service, retain only a simple track phone.
4. Sell what's left of the car and cancel car insurance.
5. Cut up all credit cards, use debit card, cash & checks.
6. Move to someplace cheaper if possible.
7. No eating out or ordering take home food.
Unless she is someplace very rural she can use a taxi service or public transportation to get to work until she can get back on her feet and get an automobile.
Tough times call for tough decisions.
Best thing you could do is put paying off student debt on the fast track and get that off of her back.
I really wish people would not equate pets to material possessions - there's enough overcrowding in the shelters without encouraging even MORE people to heartlessly give up living creatures they've committed to care for. Whether or not it was a good idea in the first place, she's signed on to care for them now and that should be a top priority.
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Mom is 52 and competent enough to hold three jobs, so obviously understands her predicament, yet fails to do anything about it.
What little help you can offer is only putting a band aid on a gaping chest wound. She needs to act.
I'm betting there is plenty of low hanging fruit that could be quickly picked to lessen her problems.
1. Get rid of the dogs, immediate savings.
2. Freeloader son starts paying rent and contributing towards groceries, buys his own cell phone, clothing, etc., or leaves.
3. Drop cable TV and internet service, retain only a simple track phone.
4. Sell what's left of the car and cancel car insurance.
5. Cut up all credit cards, use debit card, cash & checks.
6. Move to someplace cheaper if possible.
7. No eating out or ordering take home food.
Unless she is someplace very rural she can use a taxi service or public transportation to get to work until she can get back on her feet and get an automobile.
Tough times call for tough decisions.
Best thing you could do is put paying off student debt on the fast track and get that off of her back.
I really wish people would not equate pets to material possessions - there's enough overcrowding in the shelters without encouraging even MORE people to heartlessly give up living creatures they've committed to care for. Whether or not it was a good idea in the first place, she's signed on to care for them now and that should be a top priority.
Legally, pets = material possession. They are bought and sold on open market just like any other chattel.
Agreed on the moral obligations.
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Sorry to hear about the situation your family is finding itself in. On a financially-unrelated note, perhaps you could suggest your mom look into local Nar-Anon meetings. This is a program for family members/friends of addicts (like AA). Attending a meeting won't solve her financial problems, but it may be a helpful support for her worth checking out, all things considered.
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I really wish people would not equate pets to material possessions - there's enough overcrowding in the shelters without encouraging even MORE people to heartlessly give up living creatures they've committed to care for. Whether or not it was a good idea in the first place, she's signed on to care for them now and that should be a top priority.
Pets are material possessions, even if you don't like to think of it that way. Regardless of what the original intent was, if someone can't support himself he has no business owning a pet. Doesn't matter how is goes away, whether it's finding it a new home, a shelter, or putting it down. And I say that as the loving owner of two 12 year old cats.
Not only are the pets costing money in the form of food and medical bills for the health issues, the OP has stated they are also costing an increased rent premium. That sounds like hundreds of dollars a month. That's a car payment in itself.
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I don't think it's heartless to give a pet for adoption if you can't afford it anymore. It even seems selfish to keep a pet one can't afford to take to a vet/give food/take care of.
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Will she let you look at where she is actually spending her $ so you can help her make some decisions? I suspect she is giving your brother a lot more $ then she is indicating. It is not helpful for people to say get rid of her pets. Only a heartless SOB chooses that option. One dog is 12 so probably won't be around that much longer anyways. something else is going on here that you aren't aware of.
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Honestly I bet there'll be some auto lender prepared to lend to her on expensive terms.
Yeah at $103k, she's likely spending a fortune elsewhere.
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I don't think it's heartless to give a pet for adoption if you can't afford it anymore. It even seems selfish to keep a pet one can't afford to take to a vet/give food/take care of.
Mindless spending on crap is the problem, not the dogs. There's no way someone with that income "can't afford" to take care of a couple of dogs.
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Her after tax pay, assuming she's not saving in a 401k or ira, should be at least $6000 a month. Probably more.
$6000 income
$1200 rent
$ 900 debt plan
$ 500 food
$ 600 utilities
$ 600 insurance (car/renters)
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$2200+ cash still in pocket.
$ ? rehab
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$ ? left
Lots of ways to cut costs.
No eating out.
Buy a beater car for $1000 to $1500. Probably have to pay 20+% interest on it. It only has to last until February.
Buy a 2nd beater for the same if the first one dies expensively before February.
Sell everything that's not essential.
Eat inexpensively.
Get the car insurance lowered since the new car won't be worth a damn.
No "heroic + expensive" efforts at the vet for animals who have reached their natural lifespan.
Cancel cable until the beaters are paid off. Wont' take long after the $900 debt payment goes away.
Minimize utilities.
Do not buy anything that does not have to be bought. That includes for Christmas. The best present she could give you and your brother is to get her finances in order.
Either those rehab fees are really horrible or mom needs to grow up. You need to know which it is.
For that matter, if a taxi or uber driver could be found for less than $20 round trip to and from work, that would only be about $2000 from now until the end of Feb next year.
Cancelling car insurance would cover a good bit of that, and any payout from the insurance might cover the rest.
I suspect you could commit to buying a beater for $1000 if need be.
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Sorry to hear about everything that is going on with your family!
If I'm reading this right, it sounds like you owe your mom $25,000 for college, plus she gave you about $24,000 in cash (the $400/month thing). Could you buy her a used car in cash and subtract that amount from your debt to her? You should be able to find something decent for $5,000 or thereabouts. Or a junker for much less if all else fails.
Other advice:
* Can some other trusted person take over the dogs for a while? Perhaps indefinitely? Then she doesn't have to give them away forever, but she wouldn't be financially responsible for them while she sorts things out. And she could move to a cheaper place.
* Your brother could chip in more with household expenses. If he's grappling with addiction problems, sad to say, it might be best for him to not have much discretionary income right now anyway. This could help him.
* Can your mom sell off the new TV and buy a much cheaper one on Craigslist? I know she still has to pay it off, but this could get her some quick ready cash. Does she have any other goods she could sell?
* Do any of her co-workers live in the neighborhood? (Or conversely, do any of her neighbors commute to work to the same area?) She could carpool with them and chip in a little for gas.
Good luck!
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Would she be receptive to the idea of what Dave Ramsey has to say? Would his advice be helpful?
Not that it's perfect, but if she's struggling with debt, maybe his advice would get through to her.
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Mom is 52 and competent enough to hold three jobs, so obviously understands her predicament, yet fails to do anything about it.
What little help you can offer is only putting a band aid on a gaping chest wound. She needs to act.
I'm betting there is plenty of low hanging fruit that could be quickly picked to lessen her problems.
1. Get rid of the dogs, immediate savings.
2. Freeloader son starts paying rent and contributing towards groceries, buys his own cell phone, clothing, etc., or leaves.
3. Drop cable TV and internet service, retain only a simple track phone.
4. Sell what's left of the car and cancel car insurance.
5. Cut up all credit cards, use debit card, cash & checks.
6. Move to someplace cheaper if possible.
7. No eating out or ordering take home food.
Unless she is someplace very rural she can use a taxi service or public transportation to get to work until she can get back on her feet and get an automobile.
Tough times call for tough decisions.
Best thing you could do is put paying off student debt on the fast track and get that off of her back.
I've suggested these to her so many times. It's hopeless. Her excuse is always the same. TV is her entertainment since she can't afford to do anything else. I'll give it another whirl! Thanks for the advice :)
You asked what direction you could give your mother, but it sounds like you've already given her good advice that she has disregarded. You've described someone who isn't willing to help herself. I would give moral support but otherwise let her have this opportunity to choose her priorities, whether it's selling posessions to buy another car, taking public transit, car-pooling, cutting spending, swallowing her pride and disclosing her financial situation to her employer in the hopes of a pay advance or early bonus, etc.
Whatever you do, don't swoop in and save the day by borrowing to give her money. You are harming her if you shield her from the problems caused by her poor spending choices. As someone observed elsewhere in the forums, there are multiple Mustachians who found the philosophy in their 50s and are turning their finances around. It's not too late for her to learn frugality and money management, if she wants to or if having to solve her own financial problems pushes her in that direction. That is the sustainable, long-term solution you want to aim for.
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Mom is 52 and competent enough to hold three jobs, so obviously understands her predicament, yet fails to do anything about it.
What little help you can offer is only putting a band aid on a gaping chest wound. She needs to act.
I'm betting there is plenty of low hanging fruit that could be quickly picked to lessen her problems.
1. Get rid of the dogs, immediate savings.
2. Freeloader son starts paying rent and contributing towards groceries, buys his own cell phone, clothing, etc., or leaves.
3. Drop cable TV and internet service, retain only a simple track phone.
4. Sell what's left of the car and cancel car insurance.
5. Cut up all credit cards, use debit card, cash & checks.
6. Move to someplace cheaper if possible.
7. No eating out or ordering take home food.
Unless she is someplace very rural she can use a taxi service or public transportation to get to work until she can get back on her feet and get an automobile.
Tough times call for tough decisions.
Best thing you could do is put paying off student debt on the fast track and get that off of her back.
I've suggested these to her so many times. It's hopeless. Her excuse is always the same. TV is her entertainment since she can't afford to do anything else. I'll give it another whirl! Thanks for the advice :)
Why would you help someone who is not willing to help herself? That aside, I reject the recommendation to get rid of the dogs. Your mom needs to face the reality of her situation. She earns a sufficient amount of money to cover her own bills and to save. She is choosing not to save.
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She earns $103,000 per year, and is having this many issues?
Honestly....I'm not sure I'd do anything. Because I don't think you buying her a car, giving her yours, driving her yourself, or whatever, is really going to do any good. Obviously, I don't know their situation personally. Before you do anything I'd ask yourself if you're truly helping or just enabling.
I'm going to agree with this as well. My advice is to save up and put aside $24,000 and invest it so you can help make sure she doesn't starve when she can't work anymore. The solutions are all right there, but until she's willing to change, there isn't hope.
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I don't think it's heartless to give a pet for adoption if you can't afford it anymore. It even seems selfish to keep a pet one can't afford to take to a vet/give food/take care of.
Mindless spending on crap is the problem, not the dogs. There's no way someone with that income "can't afford" to take care of a couple of dogs.
Agree with this. It seems a lot of people have a very rosy picture of "giving a dog up for adoption" that doesn't include a huge number of them being immediately killed and thrown in trash cans, especially old or disabled (in this case, eye problems) ones.
If it's a matter of "we can't eat as long as we have a dog" then I can see getting rid of it/putting it down. Human life > dog life. Expensive extreme medical procedures are another area where it may be good to put them down.
When it's a matter of "we can't have unlimited data on our phones, the full cable package, send our drug addict son to his 12th attempt at rehab, eat at restaurants every day, or have a new car every 2 years as long as we have a dog" I think it's pretty shitty to suggest getting rid of it. Getting rid of pets should be the LAST step in reducing expenses, not the first.
For someone making 6 figures who's had two bankruptcies, two dogs aren't the problem. Even if we assume they cost $500/month (which is very high), that's $6k/year. After tax she should be making around $85,000, with the dogs it's $79,000. I find it very hard to believe that someone can't make ends meet with $79,000 after tax.
For those of you wanting her to get rid of the dog, just pretend she did, but now she makes $102,000 per year instead of $108,000.
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I don't think it's heartless to give a pet for adoption if you can't afford it anymore. It even seems selfish to keep a pet one can't afford to take to a vet/give food/take care of.
Mindless spending on crap is the problem, not the dogs. There's no way someone with that income "can't afford" to take care of a couple of dogs.
Agree with this. It seems a lot of people have a very rosy picture of "giving a dog up for adoption" that doesn't include a huge number of them being immediately killed and thrown in trash cans, especially old or disabled (in this case, eye problems) ones.
If it's a matter of "we can't eat as long as we have a dog" then I can see getting rid of it/putting it down. Human life > dog life. Expensive extreme medical procedures are another area where it may be good to put them down.
When it's a matter of "we can't have unlimited data on our phones, the full cable package, send our drug addict son to his 12th attempt at rehab, eat at restaurants every day, or have a new car every 2 years as long as we have a dog" I think it's pretty shitty to suggest getting rid of it. Getting rid of pets should be the LAST step in reducing expenses, not the first.
For someone making 6 figures who's had two bankruptcies, two dogs aren't the problem. Even if we assume they cost $500/month (which is very high), that's $6k/year. After tax she should be making around $85,000, with the dogs it's $79,000. I find it very hard to believe that someone can't make ends meet with $79,000 after tax.
For those of you wanting her to get rid of the dog, just pretend she did, but now she makes $102,000 per year instead of $108,000.
+1. Very well said. Thanks for expressing this so clearly.
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Must say, I don't agree with the folks saying to just not help. The mom financially helped the OP a lot over the years. Now she needs a car in order to get to her job. If she loses her great-paying job because she can't get there, things are going to get much, much worse for her. Personally I wouldn't want to watch my mom's life devolve like that, especially if she had been so generous to me in the past and hadn't asked for much before. Buying her a cheap used car (paid for in cash) so she can continue earning money seems like the right thing to do.
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IMO the car is not an issue, unless she lives in an extremely rural area with no other options. I've never owned a car and have somehow managed to make it to work every day. There were many options mentioned - carpooling, taxis, public transit, etc. Without details of location and access to these things, there's no reason to suggest getting her another car.
Also +1 on keeping the dogs. Geez, with a six figure income that should seriously be the last, most desperate option. When you adopt a pet you are responsible for that pet, for the duration of that pets life, end of story. She can cut back on other things.
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I don't think it's heartless to give a pet for adoption if you can't afford it anymore. It even seems selfish to keep a pet one can't afford to take to a vet/give food/take care of.
Mindless spending on crap is the problem, not the dogs. There's no way someone with that income "can't afford" to take care of a couple of dogs.
Agree with this. It seems a lot of people have a very rosy picture of "giving a dog up for adoption" that doesn't include a huge number of them being immediately killed and thrown in trash cans, especially old or disabled (in this case, eye problems) ones.
If it's a matter of "we can't eat as long as we have a dog" then I can see getting rid of it/putting it down. Human life > dog life. Expensive extreme medical procedures are another area where it may be good to put them down.
When it's a matter of "we can't have unlimited data on our phones, the full cable package, send our drug addict son to his 12th attempt at rehab, eat at restaurants every day, or have a new car every 2 years as long as we have a dog" I think it's pretty shitty to suggest getting rid of it. Getting rid of pets should be the LAST step in reducing expenses, not the first.
For someone making 6 figures who's had two bankruptcies, two dogs aren't the problem. Even if we assume they cost $500/month (which is very high), that's $6k/year. After tax she should be making around $85,000, with the dogs it's $79,000. I find it very hard to believe that someone can't make ends meet with $79,000 after tax.
For those of you wanting her to get rid of the dog, just pretend she did, but now she makes $102,000 per year instead of $108,000.
+1. Very well said. Thanks for expressing this so clearly.
I also mentioned it was selfish to keep a dog one can't take care of, the mom clearly isn't a capable adult, can't help the son, can't help herself, it's clear to me that she isn't responsible enough to care for dogs.
Also one should know who to give their pets to, it's the owner's responsibility to find a caring home, I wasn't suggesting to leave the dogs in the dumps, but I get why you all worry. Sadly there aren't any contracts to getting a dog, and it isn't illegal to give them away, yet.
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I really think this is for your mom to sort out, not you. She earns enough money that her situation is easily fixable--by her.
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Must say, I don't agree with the folks saying to just not help. The mom financially helped the OP a lot over the years. Now she needs a car in order to get to her job. If she loses her great-paying job because she can't get there, things are going to get much, much worse for her. Personally I wouldn't want to watch my mom's life devolve like that, especially if she had been so generous to me in the past and hadn't asked for much before. Buying her a cheap used car (paid for in cash) so she can continue earning money seems like the right thing to do.
This is the second time you've suggested this. See the original post where the OP states she doesn't have the cash to give to her mother:
I don't personally have the money to give her, unfortunately, otherwise I would in a heartbeat.
So for the OP to gift her mom a car OP would need to take out a loan to do so. When her mother won't even contemplate selling the $1200 TV to generate cash.
Helping someone doesn't always mean handing over money. From the situation described, OP would be helping more by not enabling further financial mismanagement on her mother's part.
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I don't think you're going to get specific and helpful feedback without more specific information. For example, are there other ways to commute? Why is a car the only option? Without this information a lot of people are going to point you to alternatives - maybe rightly so.
Where is all of her additional money going other than to what you have identified? She makes a lot of money and it is difficult to sort out why she has to finance a tv or a medical bill right now. Without this explained a lot of people are just going to point out that she should still have significant disposable income - maybe rightly so.
It appears that there is some black and white thinking going on where there is only one alternative or odd justifications for choices. Having two dogs may have meant that particular month that was the only place that was available. Each month there is an unpredictable new supply of housing some of which may be cheaper and take dogs. Keeping an eye out for a home in a walkable location might be a good idea if the costs justify the move.
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I don't think it's heartless to give a pet for adoption if you can't afford it anymore. It even seems selfish to keep a pet one can't afford to take to a vet/give food/take care of.
Mindless spending on crap is the problem, not the dogs. There's no way someone with that income "can't afford" to take care of a couple of dogs.
Hell yes.
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I have a similar set of family members, and there is always a crisis or shortfall. For years I felt compelled to help with money or advice but always found them back in the same crisis a few weeks later. So I'm going to ask a question you might not like, but please understand it comes from experience, not as a judgement on your situation or your mother's:
Are you trying to help in the short run or fix your mom's problems?
You can float some cash to help the short run, but you can't fix your mom or her spending habits. This isn't a case of ignorance, its a case of priorities. It sounds like your mother places a higher priority on a number of things than she does her health or financial stability. Ask yourself, if your mother won the lottery tomorrow and could buy her way out of all her current problems, how long would it last? How long before new problems came up with bigger price tags?
Your mother won't change her habits until she wants to change them and no money you provide can leverage that change. Where you can help is providing the knowledge in a non-judgemental way, helping her build the attitude to want to do better and encouraging the behaviors that lead to stability. Look into nonprofit credit counselors in her area, they usually have programs that can help build that combination of knowledge, attitude and behavior.
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Must say, I don't agree with the folks saying to just not help. The mom financially helped the OP a lot over the years. Now she needs a car in order to get to her job. If she loses her great-paying job because she can't get there, things are going to get much, much worse for her. Personally I wouldn't want to watch my mom's life devolve like that, especially if she had been so generous to me in the past and hadn't asked for much before. Buying her a cheap used car (paid for in cash) so she can continue earning money seems like the right thing to do.
This is the second time you've suggested this. See the original post where the OP states she doesn't have the cash to give to her mother:
I don't personally have the money to give her, unfortunately, otherwise I would in a heartbeat.
So for the OP to gift her mom a car OP would need to take out a loan to do so. When her mother won't even contemplate selling the $1200 TV to generate cash.
Helping someone doesn't always mean handing over money. From the situation described, OP would be helping more by not enabling further financial mismanagement on her mother's part.
I looked back at the OP's older posts to get a sense of their finances. They write about having savings. The OP describes reluctance to take out a car loan on the mom's behalf (which makes sense) which is why buying used outright is a better solution.
This isn't a handout to some sort of habitual moocher -- again, the OP is in massive debt to the mom. And the mom is trying to improve her situation -- she's been digging out of bankruptcy and is trying to hold down three jobs. It might be inconvenient, and it might put a dent in the OP's savings for a little while, but it's time to step up and help.
I had also suggested selling the TV. That money can help pay for a new car. The brother also needs to be induced to help. There are other possible solutions, but if they fail, I think the OP needs to be prepared to help replace the car.
I'm assuming the mom, who lives in a small town, isn't able to commute by public transit, otherwise this entire discussion would be moot.
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She paid back $25k in student loan debt and gave her kid $400/month for whatever period of time. I would definitely want to pay my mom back if she was having hard times. I'd buy her the car... maybe. The only really big wild card here is the impact the brother with a drug addiction living with the mom has on things. Will he drive the car? Will he crash it again? Is he still on drugs? That needs to be sorted out somehow for everyone's sanity. Plus the mysterious missing earnings - is it all explained by the brother or are there other issues? OP, I feel for you, hard to be at a distance and yet maybe easier in some ways. Hope it all resolves without your intervention. Mom shouldn't be earning 103k and working at the mall on the weekends to make ends meet.
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OP, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think some people are mixing up your explanation of the $400 per month that your mom gave you over a 5-year period. THAT was the money that she paid towards your student loans. Those loans became immediately due and payable as a result of HER filing bankruptcy because she had been a co-signer. Aside from that $24-25,000, you alone are paying for the other $65,000+ of student loans. There is NOT a second set of $24-25,000 that she gave to you. Is that right?
I really hope the carpooling idea can work out for her.
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OP, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think some people are mixing up your explanation of the $400 per month that your mom gave you over a 5-year period. THAT was the money that she paid towards your student loans. Those loans became immediately due and payable as a result of HER filing bankruptcy because she had been a co-signer. Aside from that $24-25,000, you alone are paying for the other $65,000+ of student loans. There is NOT a second set of $24-25,000 that she gave to you. Is that right?
I'm not sure how $500 x 12 x 5 years or 24k equals a demand payment for 25k student loan plus interest and collection fees? The demand loan payments would likely be made to the lender direct and not to the OP - I think we are talking about 49k plus interest and charges on the loan here - but perhaps the OP can clarify.
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OP, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think some people are mixing up your explanation of the $400 per month that your mom gave you over a 5-year period. THAT was the money that she paid towards your student loans. Those loans became immediately due and payable as a result of HER filing bankruptcy because she had been a co-signer. Aside from that $24-25,000, you alone are paying for the other $65,000+ of student loans. There is NOT a second set of $24-25,000 that she gave to you. Is that right?
I'm not sure how $500 x 12 x 5 years or 24k equals a demand payment for 25k student loan plus interest and collection fees? The demand loan payments would likely be made to the lender direct and not to the OP - I think we are talking about 49k plus interest and charges on the loan here - but perhaps the OP can clarify.
You are correct - my mom paid me $400 a month for 5 years toward my student loans over the course of her bankruptcy. It's really irrelevant to the issue at hand, but if you insist I clarify...I logged on to make my monthly payment one day and it said my student loan was in default. I immediately called my lender and they told me my co-signer (my mom) filed for bankruptcy. My mom didn't even have the decency to warn me and my student loan went into automatic default even though I made every single payment due to the auto-default clause of one of us filing for bankruptcy. So not only did my mom make me think taking out this much in student loans was a good idea, she also put a default under my credit due to her bankruptcy filing. I called the new owner of the loan which was a collection agency and they explained to me that once my mom's bankruptcy repayment period was over, my student loan would be due and owing. So over the past five years, her Chapter 13 repayment period, she has been giving me $400 a month to make up for the fact that my 25 year repayment plan turned into a 5 year repayment plan and the default now under my credit. I accepted because I was 24, just started making payments and was making $14 per hour. I've set aside all the money she's given me in order to pay this student loan off once her bankruptcy period is over. I guess I could give my mom her money back, but then I get sued by the collections agency, have way more to pay off in collection fees over however long it takes, and I'm not the one who put the loan there in the first place. It's a very confusing situation, but hopefully I explained it well enough. I am paying the remaining $65k + interest on my student loans that aren't in default.
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I don't know my mom's exact expenses, but I can estimate. She does contribute 10% to her 401k and maxes out her HSA and FSA as she has so many health issues. She also has a high deductible, higher than the HSA limits, so she has to set aside money for that, for which I cannot recall the exact amount. Based on my calculations, she brings home about $4500 a month.
Rent: $1250
Dogs (medicine/grooming/food): $180
Phones: $350 (she pays for hers, my brother's and boyfriend's) - obviously this should go, but it won't
Bankruptcy Repayment: $900
Brother's rehab: $400
Groceries: Estimating at $500
Gas: $100
Utilities/Cable/Internet: Estimating at $200
TOTAL: $3880
I'm sure I'm missing some things. Often times, she saves a little and then an emergency comes up. Or I had surgery a few months ago and she came up to stay with me, but had to rent a car to do so. Things of that nature. We all know the low hanging fruit, but I know she probably won't be getting rid of those items overnight.
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OP, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think some people are mixing up your explanation of the $400 per month that your mom gave you over a 5-year period. THAT was the money that she paid towards your student loans. Those loans became immediately due and payable as a result of HER filing bankruptcy because she had been a co-signer. Aside from that $24-25,000, you alone are paying for the other $65,000+ of student loans. There is NOT a second set of $24-25,000 that she gave to you. Is that right?
I'm not sure how $500 x 12 x 5 years or 24k equals a demand payment for 25k student loan plus interest and collection fees? The demand loan payments would likely be made to the lender direct and not to the OP - I think we are talking about 49k plus interest and charges on the loan here - but perhaps the OP can clarify.
You are correct - my mom paid me $400 a month for 5 years toward my student loans over the course of her bankruptcy. It's really irrelevant to the issue at hand, but if you insist I clarify...I logged on to make my monthly payment one day and it said my student loan was in default. I immediately called my lender and they told me my co-signer (my mom) filed for bankruptcy. My mom didn't even have the decency to warn me and my student loan went into automatic default even though I made every single payment due to the auto-default clause of one of us filing for bankruptcy. So not only did my mom make me think taking out this much in student loans was a good idea, she also put a default under my credit due to her bankruptcy filing. I called the new owner of the loan which was a collection agency and they explained to me that once my mom's bankruptcy repayment period was over, my student loan would be due and owing. So over the past five years, her Chapter 13 repayment period, she has been giving me $400 a month to make up for the fact that my 25 year repayment plan turned into a 5 year repayment plan and the default now under my credit. I accepted because I was 24, just started making payments and was making $14 per hour. I've set aside all the money she's given me in order to pay this student loan off once her bankruptcy period is over. I guess I could give my mom her money back, but then I get sued by the collections agency, have way more to pay off in collection fees over however long it takes, and I'm not the one who put the loan there in the first place. It's a very confusing situation, but hopefully I explained it well enough. I am paying the remaining $65k + interest on my student loans that aren't in default.
You are blaming your mom for everything but... she didn't "make" you take out the loans, you took them out. She was nice enough to cosign for you. if she couldn't handle her bills, she didn't need your permission to file for bankruptcy. Because of the clause it wouldn't have mattered if she told you ahead of time anyway it sounds like. It sounds to me like you made her feel so guilty that she kept giving you $400/month for it.
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OP, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think some people are mixing up your explanation of the $400 per month that your mom gave you over a 5-year period. THAT was the money that she paid towards your student loans. Those loans became immediately due and payable as a result of HER filing bankruptcy because she had been a co-signer. Aside from that $24-25,000, you alone are paying for the other $65,000+ of student loans. There is NOT a second set of $24-25,000 that she gave to you. Is that right?
I'm not sure how $500 x 12 x 5 years or 24k equals a demand payment for 25k student loan plus interest and collection fees? The demand loan payments would likely be made to the lender direct and not to the OP - I think we are talking about 49k plus interest and charges on the loan here - but perhaps the OP can clarify.
You are correct - my mom paid me $400 a month for 5 years toward my student loans over the course of her bankruptcy. It's really irrelevant to the issue at hand, but if you insist I clarify...I logged on to make my monthly payment one day and it said my student loan was in default. I immediately called my lender and they told me my co-signer (my mom) filed for bankruptcy. My mom didn't even have the decency to warn me and my student loan went into automatic default even though I made every single payment due to the auto-default clause of one of us filing for bankruptcy. So not only did my mom make me think taking out this much in student loans was a good idea, she also put a default under my credit due to her bankruptcy filing. I called the new owner of the loan which was a collection agency and they explained to me that once my mom's bankruptcy repayment period was over, my student loan would be due and owing. So over the past five years, her Chapter 13 repayment period, she has been giving me $400 a month to make up for the fact that my 25 year repayment plan turned into a 5 year repayment plan and the default now under my credit. I accepted because I was 24, just started making payments and was making $14 per hour. I've set aside all the money she's given me in order to pay this student loan off once her bankruptcy period is over. I guess I could give my mom her money back, but then I get sued by the collections agency, have way more to pay off in collection fees over however long it takes, and I'm not the one who put the loan there in the first place. It's a very confusing situation, but hopefully I explained it well enough. I am paying the remaining $65k + interest on my student loans that aren't in default.
You are blaming your mom for everything but... she didn't "make" you take out the loans, you took them out. She was nice enough to cosign for you. if she couldn't handle her bills, she didn't need your permission to file for bankruptcy. Because of the clause it wouldn't have mattered if she told you ahead of time anyway it sounds like. It sounds to me like you made her feel so guilty that she kept giving you $400/month for it.
Actually, there was a way to release her as my cosigner had she given me any warning. My mom advised me to take out the loans. I wanted to go to community college, but my mom wanted to brag that I was going to a top university and insisted that if I went to college, I'd be making amazing money no matter my major, but here I am making $55k after 6 years of being in my career. I hate when I read these forums and people are like you should have understood the consequences of your actions when talking about student loans, but that's why we go to school to learn things. No one ever taught me / gave me a crash course in lending. I understood I had to pay it back, but the amount of money I'd be making seemed like SO much when my highest paying job at that point in life was $7/hour. And considering the only people I had to rely on with regard to this information were my parents, they clearly aren't the best examples. Both of my parents (divorced) have filed for several bankruptcies and have foreclosed on their homes. I didn't make her feel guilty. If I did that to my child, put a default under his or her credit, I'd feel guilty as hell before he or she said anything to me.
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Yes, it sounds to me like you were induced to spend the money for a more expensive education by your mom who promised to pay for it. Frustrating.
Your mom is making some really poor choices. Why would she pay the cell phone bill for her boyfriend? And now she is working retail on the weekends to make ends meet... frustrating again.
I don't know if there is an answer unless she is willing to change her ways. Multiple bankruptcies haven't caused her to change so I'm not sure what will. Maybe this is one of the things you are going to have to learn to accept if you cannot reason a way through because she is making emotionally driven spending decisions. Does she listen to budgeting advice from you based on what you have learned recently?
Where I live I see ads for car lots promising they will lend even if you have declared bankruptcy. Maybe she can access this service, which probably comes at a big interest premium, if she is really desperate? And won't the insurance company provide some funds for a replacement vehicle in a write-off scenario even if small?
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I wish I had the time to reply to each and every one of you! Thank you SO much for your advice. You all state things far more eloquently than I ever could. I'm not sure what my mom is planning on doing, but she did ask me to cosign on a loan for her and I turned her down as I felt uncomfortable carrying my car loan, her car loan, and my student loans when my fiance and I plan on getting a mortgage next year. I feel incredibly guilty and still want to find a way to lend her my car for a while. She's obviously helped me so much and got into this situation for overextending herself for my brother and I. Trust me, it's not for material possessions. She bought a $3k car and all her furniture is 15+ years old. It was mainly her medical bills and then my brother's situation that got her into this mess. She had not given me any money for school when she filed the bankruptcies.
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I disagree that the $400 wasn't reasonable for the mom to pay. Throwing a loan into default is breaking the terms of the loan and she was right to try and ameliorate the situation.
OP, can you get her some books on boundaries? Overextending oneself is not a viable long-term plan.
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A high deductible health plan is generally going to cost a lot for someone with many health problems, as it sounds like your mom has. Does she have any other health insurance options? Has she calculated if the total cost is worth it? I know many people that work for my company only have a HDHP and no other option and they don't like it.
Open enrollment is going to start soon, so it may be worth it to consider another option, if available.
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Maybe I'm off base, but when my alcoholic (and sometimes drug using) brother moved into my mother, her finances took a turn for the worse, and she had much less income than your mother does. To help her, sit down and work out a budget. find out where every dollar goes. Maybe he isn't using anymore, but maybe she will also see supporting your brother may be something she cannot afford.
My mother is in a very similar situation, except with much less income. At some point you may need to walk away. If you do end up becoming well off enough you can help by paying her back for how she helped with your college, do it by paying a bill of hers, not cash.
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My perspective, coming from a dysfunctional family, including siblings with addiction issues, etc... I think your mom's financial situation is only a symptom of a larger emotional/psychological problem.
My opinion is that no amount of financial help will do any long term good, rather I would focus on encouraging her/be supportive of her getting help. Some help can be free (a previous poster had suggested al alon), others like counseling may have a small cost. If you feel the need to help her financially in the near term, this is what I would offer to pay.
As far as the money your mom has paid you, this is a personal moral judgement on your part. You are the only one that can decide if it's something you should somehow pay back in the future. Personally, I can certainly see how you feel were wronged. The unannounced BK (given you could have rectified the loan situation with warning), coupled with poor parental advice on school, would probably have me resentful and feeling owed as well. If you decide that you should "repay" her, I like the advice another poster gave. Save 24K (less any counseling/mental health support fees you help with in the interim) and invest it so that you have money to help your mom in the future. The path she is on; poor health, stress, lack of finances, means that unless she chooses to change, in the next few years she will likely be unable to work. Then you will have a mom on disability, with expensive medical bills and no other means to support herself. You can repay her then when she will need the money to maintain a forced, but very basic lifestyle.
Lastly, if you haven't already, make sure you take care of your own mental health. I don't know you personally, but coming from a family making dysfunctional choices like this rarely leaves one unscathed. Invest the time, energy and money (if need be) in yourself to make sure your future life and relationships are healthy. This investment will produce returns far exceeding any index fund.
Good luck my fellow life traveler!
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and I'm not the one who put the loan there in the first place. It's a very confusing situation
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I can definitely understand that having to repay in 5 years instead of 25 is a huge problem not your fault...
But you must have co signed for the lenders to come after you, so both of you put the loan in place, and both agreed to repay it in whole, even if the other defaults. The problem is that your mom did not describe what you were signing and then broke a personal promise to you.
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My perspective, coming from a dysfunctional family, including siblings with addiction issues, etc... I think your mom's financial situation is only a symptom of a larger emotional/psychological problem.
My opinion is that no amount of financial help will do any long term good, rather I would focus on encouraging her/be supportive of her getting help. Some help can be free (a previous poster had suggested al alon), others like counseling may have a small cost. If you feel the need to help her financially in the near term, this is what I would offer to pay.
As far as the money your mom has paid you, this is a personal moral judgement on your part. You are the only one that can decide if it's something you should somehow pay back in the future. Personally, I can certainly see how you feel were wronged. The unannounced BK (given you could have rectified the loan situation with warning), coupled with poor parental advice on school, would probably have me resentful and feeling owed as well. If you decide that you should "repay" her, I like the advice another poster gave. Save 24K (less any counseling/mental health support fees you help with in the interim) and invest it so that you have money to help your mom in the future. The path she is on; poor health, stress, lack of finances, means that unless she chooses to change, in the next few years she will likely be unable to work. Then you will have a mom on disability, with expensive medical bills and no other means to support herself. You can repay her then when she will need the money to maintain a forced, but very basic lifestyle.
Lastly, if you haven't already, make sure you take care of your own mental health. I don't know you personally, but coming from a family making dysfunctional choices like this rarely leaves one unscathed. Invest the time, energy and money (if need be) in yourself to make sure your future life and relationships are healthy. This investment will produce returns far exceeding any index fund.
Good luck my fellow life traveler!
Yes to all of this. I, too, was wondering if a mental condition is affecting mom's decisions and her inability to take responsibility. And, please take care of yourself. You can suggest to your mom that she see a therapist, but she may not listen. The easiest thing you can do is take care of yourself, both to keep from being a burden, and also to set yourself up to help in the future when SHTF (I mean, even worse than now).
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and I'm not the one who put the loan there in the first place. It's a very confusing situation
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I can definitely understand that having to repay in 5 years instead of 25 is a huge problem not your fault...
But you must have co signed for the lenders to come after you, so both of you put the loan in place, and both agreed to repay it in whole, even if the other defaults. The problem is that your mom did not describe what you were signing and then broke a personal promise to you.
The problem is that Mom, besides overextending her own finances, actively pushed DiggingOut into a similarly bad financial place.
Summary of College Loan Issues
DiggingOut was looking at colleges. DiggingOut wanted to go to community college. Mom said "Go to this expensive college; I will cover the costs." DiggingOut takes out student loans, one of which was cosigned by Mom. DiggingOut is making payments on all loans. Suddenly, DiggingOut learns that Mom has declared bankruptcy, sending DiggingOut's $25K loan into default. If DiggingOut had known ahead time, DiggingOut could have gotten Mom removed as cosigner and still had 25 years to pay the loan. Instead, DiggingOut was surprised and now the loan payments must be accelerated. Mom starts making $400/month payments to DiggingOut toward the loan, as it is Mom's fault that the loan defaulted.
Note that the $24K total that Mom gave DiggingOut is still far less than the promised "I will cover your schooling after pushing you to attend a much more expensive college."
Sources:
I really was hoping for unsnarky advice as my mom told me she'd pay for my college when I went. She then realized she couldn't after I graduated with $90k in student loan debt. She was the co-signer on one of my private college loans so when she filed for bankruptcy, that loan had an auto default clause if one of us filed for bankruptcy. Just finishing college, I did not have $25k to pay the loan back immediately, so since the loan was due and owing upon the completion of her bankruptcy repayment, she offered to pay that one student loan for me as I took it out thinking I had much, much more time to pay it back. So she paid for $25k of my education, and I have been paying the other $65k + interest. Regardless, I mentioned I do not have the money to give her and don't receive any assistance anymore. I can't stop her from giving money to my brother. I've told her a zillion times, but how many parents do you know that would just give up on their children? Easier said when it's not your child addicted to drugs, I guess.
Actually, there was a way to release her as my cosigner had she given me any warning. My mom advised me to take out the loans. I wanted to go to community college, but my mom wanted to brag that I was going to a top university and insisted that if I went to college, I'd be making amazing money no matter my major, but here I am making $55k after 6 years of being in my career.
As it is, I don't know what you can do to help your mother if she is unwilling to cut costs where possible. You can give her all the typical suggestions of switching to a much cheaper prepaid cell plan, cutting cable, and looking for cheaper housing as different apartments come into circulation, but it doesn't looks like she is willing to make these changes. I think her situation will get worse before it gets better.
If she gets rid of cable, there are often many current movies available at the library. I don't know if that will help convince her.
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With This Herring nailed it all. I totally agree about the student loan issues you laid out. That's why I was incredulous seeing some people telling DiggingOut to pay that money back to his mom. She needs to make the tough choices NOW before things get worse. Any financial help DiggingOut gives her in the meantime would only do two things -- (1) prolong his mother's financial ineptitude and delay her from resolving the core problems, and (2) cause new hardships for himself. Also, Netflix would be a cheaper alternative to cable if she refuses to let go of TV. Hell, she could watch the local networks for free with just a pair of rabbit ears (or whatever newfangled technology there is now).
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With This Herring nailed it all. I totally agree about the student loan issues you laid out. That's why I was incredulous seeing some people telling DiggingOut to pay that money back to his mom. She needs to make the tough choices NOW before things get worse. Any financial help DiggingOut gives her in the meantime would only do two things -- (1) prolong his mother's financial ineptitude and delay her from resolving the core problems, and (2) cause new hardships for himself. Also, Netflix would be a cheaper alternative to cable if she refuses to let go of TV. Hell, she could watch the local networks for free with just a pair of rabbit ears (or whatever newfangled technology there is now).
While I don't think it was all the mom's fault, I also don't think OP should pay his mom back or help her financially. If she cannot survive on 103k salary, there is no way to help her.
(I thought the OP was a female, not sure why, I guess I was wrong?)
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(I thought the OP was a female, not sure why, I guess I was wrong?)
Or I could be wrong -- I don't know!
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Phones: $350 (she pays for hers, my brother's and boyfriend's) - obviously this should go, but it won't
WTF???
I pay for myself, two of my kids, and my boyfriend on my T-mobile cell phone account. That includes payments for a couple of nice phones (iPhones) and a luxurious amount of data. Definitely NOT Mustachian. Not even close. And still, I only pay about $220!