Author Topic: My husbands boss emails throughout the night. Help.  (Read 24682 times)

Retire-Canada

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6742
Re: My husbands boss emails throughout the night. Help.
« Reply #50 on: March 18, 2015, 12:46:52 PM »
Time to get a different job.

Most definitely!

-- Vik

MDM

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 9494
Re: My husbands boss emails throughout the night. Help.
« Reply #51 on: March 18, 2015, 12:52:07 PM »
Normal etiquette, as you all pointed out, would seem it is appropriate to stop answering emails (turn on silent mode) and respond in the morning.
She wants a response as soon as she wants it, basically as soon as she sends the emails throughout the night.
She has alluded that his performance is lacking because of this particular issue - constant working hours/ non stop email communcation etc.
He delivers and does an excellent job in his work, but this woman is impossible. I've suggested that he goes to her boss and has a chat about it, because frankly he is getting close to resigning, but he says that since it's not a 'business' problem they can't do much. I think this is a business problem.
From the perspective of a long career with a multinational company: this is a business problem.

Now, there can be complexities to the story.  E.g., how much is he being paid and at what level in the company is he?  The higher the answer to both those questions, the more he has traded away expectations for work/life balance.  E.g., if he's being paid <$100K/yr and there are 5 or more management levels between him and the CEO then he should turn off the phone and sleep.  If however he's paid $300K/yr and is a global director with maybe 2 people between him and the CEO, well, different expectations come with that territory.

I agree with the folks saying he should look for another job.  Look, but not quit, until he has found something that could be acceptable. 

Then have a conversation with the boss's boss.  These conversations are practically never confidential: the boss's boss decides whether to tell the boss who said what.  So this can work well - or not.  E.g., the boss's boss could say "wait a couple of weeks" and the boss gets fired/reassigned, or the boss's boss could say "what do you expect?  That's what comes with the job you have."  That's why it's good to have a plan B....

Tyler

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1141
Re: My husbands boss emails throughout the night. Help.
« Reply #52 on: March 18, 2015, 01:10:32 PM »
It's absolutely a business problem to the extent that they lose good people for preventable reasons.  It boils down to company culture.  If his boss is truly the bad egg then talking to HR should fix it.  But if the company expects this level of "commitment" from all employees at your husband's level, then raising the issue may hurt more than help.

All judgement aside (a company is free to operate any way they like within the law, just like you're free to leave), it's very important to work for a company whose culture matches your personal values.  If this is simply a bad fit, then move on.

 

irishbear99

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 295
Re: My husbands boss emails throughout the night. Help.
« Reply #53 on: March 18, 2015, 01:22:38 PM »
She wants a response as soon as she wants it, basically as soon as she sends the emails throughout the night.

Wow, this is just insane. In my organization, there is a 19 hour time difference between our most remote office and us. There's another 6 hour time difference between us and our HQ. I couldn't imagine being required to immediately respond to all emails. I'd go nuts. If it's an emergency (and I mean a literal emergency, like an earthquake), work will call us in. People NEED to sleep.

She has alluded that his performance is lacking because of this particular issue - constant working hours/ non stop email communcation etc.
 

I'd suggest still setting a boundary (say, turning the phone off at midnight and back on at 6 ish?), while polishing up his resume and reaching out through his network to find another opportunity. It certainly sounds like he's good at what he does and is probably very employable elsewhere.

Stachetastic

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 743
Re: My husbands boss emails throughout the night. Help.
« Reply #54 on: March 18, 2015, 01:40:08 PM »
When I started my current job, my boss stated that it's not unusual for her to text employees at 5 or 6am. The look on my face must've given me away, because she quickly followed up with "I don't expect you to answer--I just need to get the info to you before I forget." I informed her that it is just as easy for her to send me an email as it is to text from her smartphone. I check my work email first thing when I clock in, so I will be sure to see it. It seemed to have mostly worked, as the earliest I've heard from her has been 7am. (I work 8-4)  I did not respond, as I was driving to the office at that time. I work in public service, with absolutely ZERO emergencies requiring my attention before 8.

If I were him, I would be job hunting ASAP.

theonethatgotaway

  • Guest
Re: My husbands boss emails throughout the night. Help.
« Reply #55 on: March 18, 2015, 02:36:36 PM »
good ol' passive aggression (aka just slacking off and doing nothing while saying you are)

Yeah, he wouldn't ever do this.

The way she approaches him about this night email thing is really hurting his self-confidence. I can tell. He prides himself on working hard and delivering. She has little else to complain about and really hammers this down. I think it's a flimsy form of control (he's already mentioned shes a really 'fake' person -says one thing does another etc). He was warned about her micromanaging behavior by colleagues as soon as he joined and it's come to fruition, unfortunately. I can see this game being played as he's describing it to me and he's just trying to get through it. I have asked him if all of this is worth it?

 At what point do you say, I quit because xyz? I had a long discussion last night with him (while he was working and I was cooking) and now he's minimizing it, saying it's not a big deal in the grand scheme (my daily anxiety over it is a big deal to me). I told him I'd support if he quit because who cares? He can make a great salary somewhere else/ ramp his side gig/ etc...

He really wanted this job when he was offered it/we relocated etc. (It took them 11 months to fill his role)

That's the other thing: no one quits this company (one of the major tech firms). They had their first big resignation out of their office the other day and everyone made a huge deal out of it.

I'm thinking I'll give it one more month. In 4 weeks, if he hasn't figured out to 'handle' her , is still feeling the burn out (he's up at 4am working everyday besides this email thing!), and our family is overall still suffering I'm going to push for the resignation. The salary is just not high enough to justify living like this for 1-2 years.


MooseOutFront

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 510
  • Age: 39
  • Location: Texas
Re: My husbands boss emails throughout the night. Help.
« Reply #56 on: March 18, 2015, 02:39:43 PM »
But still, there's no reason in the world for that phone to get touched between 12:00 and 6:00AM no matter what the boss said.  Time for husband to stand up for himself, even if silently.

theonethatgotaway

  • Guest
Re: My husbands boss emails throughout the night. Help.
« Reply #57 on: March 18, 2015, 02:45:46 PM »
Normal etiquette, as you all pointed out, would seem it is appropriate to stop answering emails (turn on silent mode) and respond in the morning.
She wants a response as soon as she wants it, basically as soon as she sends the emails throughout the night.
She has alluded that his performance is lacking because of this particular issue - constant working hours/ non stop email communcation etc.
He delivers and does an excellent job in his work, but this woman is impossible. I've suggested that he goes to her boss and has a chat about it, because frankly he is getting close to resigning, but he says that since it's not a 'business' problem they can't do much. I think this is a business problem.
From the perspective of a long career with a multinational company: this is a business problem.

Now, there can be complexities to the story.  E.g., how much is he being paid and at what level in the company is he?  The higher the answer to both those questions, the more he has traded away expectations for work/life balance.  E.g., if he's being paid <$100K/yr and there are 5 or more management levels between him and the CEO then he should turn off the phone and sleep.  If however he's paid $300K/yr and is a global director with maybe 2 people between him and the CEO, well, different expectations come with that territory.

I agree with the folks saying he should look for another job.  Look, but not quit, until he has found something that could be acceptable. 

Then have a conversation with the boss's boss.  These conversations are practically never confidential: the boss's boss decides whether to tell the boss who said what.  So this can work well - or not.  E.g., the boss's boss could say "wait a couple of weeks" and the boss gets fired/reassigned, or the boss's boss could say "what do you expect?  That's what comes with the job you have."  That's why it's good to have a plan B....


This is really great advice, thank you. He fought hard for this position and I try to remember that. I understand that you are giving up so much in your life to do some of these jobs and maybe I am having a hard time adjusting to it, as well. He is only 3 degrees separated from the CEO- far enough that I question this level of work and close enough that I see the need. I don't think the salary matches what he brings to the table, though.

Plan B before reaching out the the Boss' boss is a point taken. I'll pass it along and encourage this.

theonethatgotaway

  • Guest
Re: My husbands boss emails throughout the night. Help.
« Reply #58 on: March 18, 2015, 02:52:50 PM »
But still, there's no reason in the world for that phone to get touched between 12:00 and 6:00AM no matter what the boss said.  Time for husband to stand up for himself, even if silently.

I completely agree and this is the crux of the issue. His boss does what she wants, when she wants, and wants everyone to bend to her. He's had conversations about it and it seems like she sees it as questioning her authority (immature if you ask me) and the retaliates by commenting on his 'work-ethic', while then building him up and praising him for his excellent presentations and work. She makes sure to emphasize the email thing, though (i.e the bad is outweighing the good).



Schaefer Light

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1174
Re: My husbands boss emails throughout the night. Help.
« Reply #59 on: March 18, 2015, 02:55:08 PM »
His boss needs to learn not to let the urgent get in the way of the important.  It's extremely rare for a business problem to arise that needs to be treated like a life or death situation.

mm1970

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6656
Re: My husbands boss emails throughout the night. Help.
« Reply #60 on: March 18, 2015, 03:04:13 PM »
Quote
She has alluded that his performance is lacking because of this particular issue - constant working hours/ non stop email communcation etc.
He delivers and does an excellent job in his work, but this woman is impossible. I've suggested that he goes to her boss and has a chat about it, because frankly he is getting close to resigning, but he says that since it's not a 'business' problem they can't do much. I think this is a business problem.

Step 1: go to her supervisor
Step 2: find a new job

There's nothing you can do to change someone else into being reasonable.  See, I personally would not have asked her to stop emailing at night. I  simply would have turned off the phone and stopped responding, and left it up to HER to bring it up.  Many people?  Would not have the balls to do that.

And if she did bring it up, I would tell her that "I don't respond to emails at night".  Sometimes, I answer a statement or request with something vague like "I understand", which means "I understand that you want me to answer emails" not "I will answer emails", but she may not know that.  You are SORT OF agreeing, but will still do what you want.

I've worked for places that make implicit or explicit the need for people to work overtime, or weekends, or whatever - my friends and I tend to be vague about that.  I understand what you WANT from me, but you aren't going to GET that from me.  When the sh*t hits the fan, truly, I do what it takes, but that cannot be an every day thing.

mm1970

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6656
Re: My husbands boss emails throughout the night. Help.
« Reply #61 on: March 18, 2015, 03:09:43 PM »
Quote
good ol' passive aggression (aka just slacking off and doing nothing while saying you are)

Yeah, he wouldn't ever do this.

From wikipedia:
Passive-aggressive behavior is the indirect expression of hostility, such as through procrastination, stubbornness, sullenness, or deliberate or repeated failure to accomplish requested tasks for which one is (often explicitly) responsible.

I don't see what he's trying to do as passive aggressive though - because he's NOT slacking off.  And he's not INDIRECTLY failing to accomplish things.  He's doing a job, quite a good one I expect, and he's setting reasonable, clear, DIRECT boundaries.  So, his boss's boundaries are different. Oh well.

begood

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 966
Re: My husbands boss emails throughout the night. Help.
« Reply #62 on: March 18, 2015, 03:21:03 PM »
I think his boss's judgment is clouded by her own poor sleep patterns. No one can function well for long without getting stretches of decent sleep. The fact that SHE is choosing not to sleep should only affect her.

Looking in at this from the outside, even if your husband was literally curing cancer, he still should not be expected to work 24 hours a day, every day, every week, all year long... and oh, is he expected to sleep with his phone IN THE BED while he's on vacation too?

My mister was at the fly-on-the-company-jet executive level for several years, some VPish title, but he never ever had to take his phone to bed with him so he could answer e-mails at o'dark thirty.

You say he gets up at 4:00 a.m. So there's his boundary: he turns the phone off between midnight and 4:00 a.m.

electriceagle

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 474
Re: My husbands boss emails throughout the night. Help.
« Reply #63 on: March 18, 2015, 04:38:36 PM »

This is really great advice, thank you. He fought hard for this position and I try to remember that. I understand that you are giving up so much in your life to do some of these jobs and maybe I am having a hard time adjusting to it, as well. He is only 3 degrees separated from the CEO- far enough that I question this level of work and close enough that I see the need. I don't think the salary matches what he brings to the table, though.

Plan B before reaching out the the Boss' boss is a point taken. I'll pass it along and encourage this.

Just how much is he making? There are some folks pulling down $300k/yr in IT. If that kind of money is flowing, absurd hours and crazy committments (as well as ass kissing and politics) are expected. If this is a 100-150k job, fugettaboutit.

dividendman

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1128
  • Age: 37
Re: My husbands boss emails throughout the night. Help.
« Reply #64 on: March 18, 2015, 08:27:18 PM »
Quote
good ol' passive aggression (aka just slacking off and doing nothing while saying you are)

Yeah, he wouldn't ever do this.

From wikipedia:
Passive-aggressive behavior is the indirect expression of hostility, such as through procrastination, stubbornness, sullenness, or deliberate or repeated failure to accomplish requested tasks for which one is (often explicitly) responsible.

I don't see what he's trying to do as passive aggressive though - because he's NOT slacking off.  And he's not INDIRECTLY failing to accomplish things.  He's doing a job, quite a good one I expect, and he's setting reasonable, clear, DIRECT boundaries.  So, his boss's boundaries are different. Oh well.

I wasn't saying he was being passive aggressive.  I meant to say he should be passive aggressive while looking for a job, somewhat in jest.

Spondulix

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 640
  • Age: 39
  • Location: Los Angeles, CA
Re: My husbands boss emails throughout the night. Help.
« Reply #65 on: March 18, 2015, 11:58:17 PM »
He has had a couple of conversations with his boss since about a) he has a life outside of work and b) don't expect him to respond at all hours of the night. SHE DID NOT LIKE THIS.
Her response, I kid you not: "So, and so in our department (Her boss) has a baby and he is sure to be back on email 30 minutes from when he arrives at his house- do you not have a DAYCARE to put your children?" (!!!! What?! She also knows he has a stay at home wife- aka me)
She has alluded that his performance is lacking because of this particular issue - constant working hours/ non stop email communcation etc.
Can you imagine this woman in a relationship? Yikes.

Schaefer Light

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1174
Re: My husbands boss emails throughout the night. Help.
« Reply #66 on: March 19, 2015, 05:50:54 AM »
He should print this article and put a copy on her desk.

https://hbr.org/2015/03/your-late-night-emails-are-hurting-your-team

Greg

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1449
  • Location: Olympia, WA, USA
Re: My husbands boss emails throughout the night. Help.
« Reply #67 on: March 19, 2015, 10:39:51 AM »
I don't work in IT or anything near it, I own a design-build pair of small companies.  I've only had a smart phone for 1.5 years.  I get emails, voicemails and texts from existing, potential and past clients at various times of the day. 

My phone is off, I mean really off, from 10pm until 6am.  Unless there's a plumbing or other safety emergency, I don't respond except between 8am and 6pm.

Ftao93

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 228
Re: My husbands boss emails throughout the night. Help.
« Reply #68 on: March 19, 2015, 11:07:43 AM »
I struggled with this too.

I find that actual emergencies are so rare that I just told my boss that I would get a phone call, but email gets turned off at a reasonable hour.  I don't check it until I'm about to embark for the day.   He remarked that some people expect blah blah, you should check before bed blah blah.

Also note that during warmer months it's not uncommon for us to be zipping around the State on scooters or motorcycles.  I don't answer then either.

It's worked out so far.

partgypsy

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3248
Re: My husbands boss emails throughout the night. Help.
« Reply #69 on: March 19, 2015, 11:14:19 AM »
Not to be harsh, but it sounds like his boss has a time management problem.  Emails and texts can be big time eaters.
http://www.taskcracker.com/stephen-covey-time-management-method-outlook-productivity/

And as other people said, she is confusing urgent with important. If everything is urgent to her, then it means she is doing something wrong with her organization ability. It also seems like she wants him to be her "brain" dump whenever is convenient with her, rather than her consolidating requests or having meetings to address multiple things in one go.

I firmly believe people need "down-time" as well as full nights rest in order to function at peak. Otherwise you are burning your reserves and it will ultimately impact your resilience, productivity, and creativity, which are the reasons he was hired to do the job.

Is there a way to bring this up with higher ups, if not directly in the guise of increasing efficiency and time management? To have some seminars about time management, etc. I attended a covey seminar and I thought it was good for what it covered, and may give this woman insight, that even if she is crazy busy, she is not being efficient and effective with her time (and others).   


theonethatgotaway

  • Guest
Re: My husbands boss emails throughout the night. Help.
« Reply #70 on: March 19, 2015, 12:16:05 PM »

We might be making progress:

Yesterday he had a meeting with this lady (the boss), and another co-worker who is mid 40's with twin toddlers at home about a current project-
The boss basically started talking about my husband while he was present, but without acknowledging him to the co-worker (! bit rude in the first place). She turns the conversation and exclaims how co-worker has twins, so why doesn't the coworker give my husband ADVICE ON TIME MANAGEMENT AT HOME. (side note: once again my husband was at a loss for this lady's social ineptitude)
Well, to my husbands delight (small wins people) and the boss' shock the co-worker instead went on an absolute no-holds-bared tirade about the company culture that allows bullying to hold employees to this kind of all hours work to dominate the home life/ why children do need their parents/ whats really important/ and how she is drowning under constant communication demands even though she is an ultra-performer.

Boss didn't say anything. Husband started presentation.


RootofGood

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1361
  • Age: 39
  • Location: North Carolina
  • Retired at age 33. 5 years in, still loving it!
    • Root of Good
Re: My husbands boss emails throughout the night. Help.
« Reply #71 on: March 19, 2015, 12:37:45 PM »
WTF.  You'd have to pay me literally a million dollars a year to work under those conditions.  On call 24/7 to an annoying bedside device waking you up and interrupting your sleep patterns?  Some light torture is less damaging than that. 

I would turn that phone off some time in the evening before bed time, leave it downstairs so it can charge, and then check it first thing when I got up if that's what's required to keep a high profile job.  Triage any responses and take care of non-critical issues once in the office at a regular keyboard.  Otherwise, F that mess. 

Numbers Man

  • Guest
Re: My husbands boss emails throughout the night. Help.
« Reply #72 on: March 19, 2015, 05:25:51 PM »

We might be making progress:

Yesterday he had a meeting with this lady (the boss), and another co-worker who is mid 40's with twin toddlers at home about a current project-
The boss basically started talking about my husband while he was present, but without acknowledging him to the co-worker (! bit rude in the first place). She turns the conversation and exclaims how co-worker has twins, so why doesn't the coworker give my husband ADVICE ON TIME MANAGEMENT AT HOME. (side note: once again my husband was at a loss for this lady's social ineptitude)
Well, to my husbands delight (small wins people) and the boss' shock the co-worker instead went on an absolute no-holds-bared tirade about the company culture that allows bullying to hold employees to this kind of all hours work to dominate the home life/ why children do need their parents/ whats really important/ and how she is drowning under constant communication demands even though she is an ultra-performer.

Boss didn't say anything. Husband started presentation.

This meeting reminds me of a Bruce Lee movie. Where one of the martial artists was so amped about breaking a board. Bruce Lee said that boards don't hit back. In other words, if no one verbally hits back, then the boss keeps talking her koolaide without any fear of mutiny.

NoraLenderbee

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1255
Re: My husbands boss emails throughout the night. Help.
« Reply #73 on: March 19, 2015, 05:29:44 PM »
I've been in management, though not as high up. It's pretty normal to check e-mail in the evenings and to reply to some (if necessary, you give a brief answer and say you'll follow up in the AM). This was especially important when I worked with people in other time zones, like India (12 hours difference). But it stops at bedtime. If the boss and you are in the same time zone, it is completely absurd for her to expect 24/7 response. ABSURD. Even if she were the CEO and your husband were a VP. Your husband could be working 16 hours a day, and that's not enough???

It's pretty revealing of the boss's own inability to prioritize, organize, and manage her own time, too.

ShoulderThingThatGoesUp

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3057
  • Location: Emmaus, PA
Re: My husbands boss emails throughout the night. Help.
« Reply #74 on: March 19, 2015, 05:58:40 PM »

We might be making progress:

Yesterday he had a meeting with this lady (the boss), and another co-worker who is mid 40's with twin toddlers at home about a current project-
The boss basically started talking about my husband while he was present, but without acknowledging him to the co-worker (! bit rude in the first place). She turns the conversation and exclaims how co-worker has twins, so why doesn't the coworker give my husband ADVICE ON TIME MANAGEMENT AT HOME. (side note: once again my husband was at a loss for this lady's social ineptitude)
Well, to my husbands delight (small wins people) and the boss' shock the co-worker instead went on an absolute no-holds-bared tirade about the company culture that allows bullying to hold employees to this kind of all hours work to dominate the home life/ why children do need their parents/ whats really important/ and how she is drowning under constant communication demands even though she is an ultra-performer.

Boss didn't say anything. Husband started presentation.

Wow! That sounds satisfying to monkey-brain, but probably not productive in terms of making the company culture less toxic.

GuitarStv

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 13750
  • Age: 38
  • Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Re: My husbands boss emails throughout the night. Help.
« Reply #75 on: March 23, 2015, 02:00:59 PM »

We might be making progress:

Yesterday he had a meeting with this lady (the boss), and another co-worker who is mid 40's with twin toddlers at home about a current project-
The boss basically started talking about my husband while he was present, but without acknowledging him to the co-worker (! bit rude in the first place). She turns the conversation and exclaims how co-worker has twins, so why doesn't the coworker give my husband ADVICE ON TIME MANAGEMENT AT HOME. (side note: once again my husband was at a loss for this lady's social ineptitude)
Well, to my husbands delight (small wins people) and the boss' shock the co-worker instead went on an absolute no-holds-bared tirade about the company culture that allows bullying to hold employees to this kind of all hours work to dominate the home life/ why children do need their parents/ whats really important/ and how she is drowning under constant communication demands even though she is an ultra-performer.

Boss didn't say anything. Husband started presentation.

This meeting reminds me of a Bruce Lee movie. Where one of the martial artists was so amped about breaking a board. Bruce Lee said that boards don't hit back. In other words, if no one verbally hits back, then the boss keeps talking her koolaide without any fear of mutiny.


Q - What's Bruce Lee's favourite drink?


A - WWWAAAATTTTTAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH!

zinnie

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 602
  • Location: California
Re: My husbands boss emails throughout the night. Help.
« Reply #76 on: March 23, 2015, 06:00:09 PM »
OP, I am sorry your husband is going through this. 2AM emails on a regular basis? I can't imagine what warrants this beyond rare emergencies. You know, like when BP discovered millions of gallons of oil were leaking into the oceans they probably called their legal peeps at 2am. That seems reasonable. 

If this were me: I would be direct yet professional with the boss. Schedule a meeting to discuss her expectations about communication. Let her know that the all-night expectations are affecting my productivity during the day and that I would like to see if we can come up with a compromise that allows me to sleep. If that doesn't work, go one manager up or to HR, whichever he is more comfortable with. Sure, being direct could affect how people see him but if he is considering leaving over this I don't see the harm in trying to resolve it first.

I review job postings for tech and startup companies frequently and am surprised by how many explain in the job posting that you need to be available whenever they need you. Who is ok with this? Working 40-50 hours a week is hard enough when you have evenings/weekends to yourself.

Sending good vibes that you get the outcome you want in this situation. That sounds just terrible.

Apples

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 893
Re: My husbands boss emails throughout the night. Help.
« Reply #77 on: March 24, 2015, 08:50:09 AM »
+1 to turning off the notifications, and time to look for a new job.

If in the meantime he wants to talk to upper management about it, or generally give his boss as few (legitimate) reasons to complain, he can answer any emails she sends him overnight FIRST THING when he gets to work.  So the talk with an upper manager is "I don't think it's a reasonable expectation for me to deal with this at 3 am, when it can wait until the workday.  Upon entering the office/commuting to work and checking email/whatever, I have prioritized boss's nighttime emails first.  These now take priority over client emails from just after work hours yesterday, and updates from other staff.  Her emails are taken care of as soon as it is reasonable to do so.  That's what she seems to want."  So then your husband is setting the boundary of not answering at night, but still "prioritizing" the crazy lady's email when you sit down and get to looking through all of your email.  So if anyone else cares about his performance reviews he can show how he's certainly paying attention to her, is dedicated, yadda yadda, but also sleep at night.  Seriously though, turn off the notifications.  3 am emails are not usually know to be long drawn-out things to respond to, and I bet he can get most of them taken care of in 5 minutes in the morning.

theonethatgotaway

  • Guest
Re: My husbands boss emails throughout the night. Help.
« Reply #78 on: March 24, 2015, 09:44:21 AM »
Yes. One of the big corporate people in our division at work had that exact issue. They finally put rules up for her: no emails after 7pm to 7am M-F, no emails after 5p on Fridays and no email, zilch on the weekends. She complains about it all time in meetings how she's been restricted. ha.

This is brilliant.

Update:

He's pining for a promotion to be equal to her, or leaving (has a plan B).


mm1970

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6656
Re: My husbands boss emails throughout the night. Help.
« Reply #79 on: March 24, 2015, 02:59:05 PM »

We might be making progress:

Yesterday he had a meeting with this lady (the boss), and another co-worker who is mid 40's with twin toddlers at home about a current project-
The boss basically started talking about my husband while he was present, but without acknowledging him to the co-worker (! bit rude in the first place). She turns the conversation and exclaims how co-worker has twins, so why doesn't the coworker give my husband ADVICE ON TIME MANAGEMENT AT HOME. (side note: once again my husband was at a loss for this lady's social ineptitude)
Well, to my husbands delight (small wins people) and the boss' shock the co-worker instead went on an absolute no-holds-bared tirade about the company culture that allows bullying to hold employees to this kind of all hours work to dominate the home life/ why children do need their parents/ whats really important/ and how she is drowning under constant communication demands even though she is an ultra-performer.

Boss didn't say anything. Husband started presentation.

SWEET!!

The_path_less_taken

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 654
Re: My husbands boss emails throughout the night. Help.
« Reply #80 on: March 24, 2015, 09:13:33 PM »
Yes. One of the big corporate people in our division at work had that exact issue. They finally put rules up for her: no emails after 7pm to 7am M-F, no emails after 5p on Fridays and no email, zilch on the weekends. She complains about it all time in meetings how she's been restricted. ha.

This is brilliant.

Update:

He's pining for a promotion to be equal to her, or leaving (has a plan B).




I hope he gets another job or becomes HER boss!

I just started a job where the other person who does mine gets all of these alerts and sales leads on her smart phone...all throughout her lunch, with people walking into the break room and asking about deals, etc.

I showed them my 2005 pay-as-you-go flip phone...the look on their faces was priceless. I've already warned my boss that on my days off I literally have no idea where my phone is...the chicken coop? On the tractor? Where I was planting the new peach tree? Blew their little minds.

We'll see how it goes I guess. But your poor husband and you are really suffering with the middle of the night crap.

I don't care how much money they wrapped that in: I couldn't/wouldn't do it. Good luck!!!

Josiecat

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 299
Re: My husbands boss emails throughout the night. Help.
« Reply #81 on: March 25, 2015, 02:08:19 PM »
This is bullshit.  You husband is allowing this to happen.  Turn off the frickin' cellphone at night.  Also, he will not FIX this boss.  He needs to find another job right away.

jeromedawg

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2881
  • Location: Orange County, CA
Re: My husbands boss emails throughout the night. Help.
« Reply #82 on: March 25, 2015, 02:58:34 PM »
Unacceptable and unreasonable (and immature) behavior from his boss. She's obviously a control-freak but is way overstepping. Your husband needs to put his foot down. First comes the understanding on his part that family comes *first* absolutely and utmost no "ifs, ands, or buts"

As far as "managing" his boss, if he's scared of her or of the outcome, things will never change for the good. As others said, look for another job so he has something in the back-pocket. Obviously, he can't be all that picky about it but sounds like his skill set commands a competitive salary negotiation. He should try to time hopefully getting the offer so that it coincides with him talking to his boss' boss (is he on good terms with anyone above his boss?). If they can't work something out at the current place, then peace out with your back-pocket offer(s). The sooner he starts this process, the sooner the problem will be dealt with (rather than waiting several weeks to months for something to change). On top of that, even if he does bring it up as a problem with the intention of staying, it's likely going to result in more passive-aggressiveness from that extreme micro-managing supervisor of his (even if say he gets promoted and they become peers - she'll likely be all hostile towards him and try to sabotage him in other ways). As what others have been pointing out already, it seems like moving on might be the best option. Remember, it's for the sake of your family and that's the number one priority. It seems you both are trying to maintain this perspective and it's probably a lot harder for the husband, as the "bread-winner" to forfeit the means of income for his family. But it doesn't mean quitting flat out - he should have enough confidence in himself now to say "screw it, I'm looking elsewhere" and really commit to that direction without fear or anxiety over what his supervisor thinks (sounds like she's really gotten into his head). If he's concerned about "burning bridges," she's already done all that IMHO.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2015, 03:07:21 PM by jplee3 »

zolotiyeruki

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3187
  • Location: State: Denial
Re: My husbands boss emails throughout the night. Help.
« Reply #83 on: March 26, 2015, 01:26:10 PM »
I know someone who's in a similar position.  This person has a strict "radio silence" policy for themselves on Sundays and during the night, and will only respond on Saturday if there's a client appointment that needs to be filled.  At one point, their boss complained about their "lack of availability" (i.e. "you don't answer my emails") on weekends and nights.  After thinking about how to respond, they finally met with their boss face to face and said something to this effect:

"I can do a much better job of meeting your needs in a face-to-face setting."

So take the same approach.  Tell DH to tell his boss something like this:

"I can provide you with much better responses and be a much more productive employee, when I'm in the office, rather than having just woken up in the middle of the night."

MDM

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 9494
Re: My husbands boss emails throughout the night. Help.
« Reply #84 on: March 26, 2015, 02:36:21 PM »
Appears the OP has left us: theonethatgotaway = Guest?

Too bad if so - hoping to hear a happy ending....