My current credit card cashback strategy

[secondcor521]

Applied for the Chase Ink Business Cash with 4/24 and (6,4,6) hard inquiries and the application was immediately accepted.

So I am gonna do this deal :)  Spend $6000 for $900 sign up bonus.   Hopefully I can fund the bank checking account with it -- $3000.  (A friendly acquaintance of mine also mentioned another bank I can use which allows one to fund up to $4000 on credit card.)

A couple of comments:

Chase uses their 5/24 rule to try to keep people on the Chase bandwagon.  I make more from piggybacking than I do cash back, so I react in the opposite way.  The 5/24 rule pushes me away from Chase, because most other issuers have more lenient rules, and I'd rather play the field.  It's up to you how you do it, of course, but you might want to think about if breaking away from the Chase 5/24 world would be better or worse for you.

Redstone Federal Credit Union used to allow up to $500 credit card funding for each new account.  And you could open as many new savings accounts as you want.  And then you could consolidate them back down into one savings account at your leisure.

There is also "spending without actually spending", which is also called manufactured spending.  There's a whole Reddit on the topic which is kept up to date at https://www.reddit.com/r/churning/wiki/manufactured_spending/.  It requires some effort to learn what works in your area, but if you're doing CC bonus churning long term it might be worth the effort for you.

I think others may have already mentioned, but getting a 2% for everything card might be worth it.  I use the Fidelity Visa version and have the cash back auto deposited into my Fidelity HSA, which gets me the full 2% and gives me a federal tax deduction.

[therethere]

Applied for the Chase Ink Business Cash with 4/24 and (6,4,6) hard inquiries and the application was immediately accepted.

So I am gonna do this deal :)  Spend $6000 for $900 sign up bonus.   Hopefully I can fund the bank checking account with it -- $3000.  (A friendly acquaintance of mine also mentioned another bank I can use which allows one to fund up to $4000 on credit card.)

A couple of comments:

Chase uses their 5/24 rule to try to keep people on the Chase bandwagon.  I make more from piggybacking than I do cash back, so I react in the opposite way.  The 5/24 rule pushes me away from Chase, because most other issuers have more lenient rules, and I'd rather play the field.  It's up to you how you do it, of course, but you might want to think about if breaking away from the Chase 5/24 world would be better or worse for you.

Redstone Federal Credit Union used to allow up to $500 credit card funding for each new account.  And you could open as many new savings accounts as you want.  And then you could consolidate them back down into one savings account at your leisure.

There is also "spending without actually spending", which is also called manufactured spending.  There's a whole Reddit on the topic which is kept up to date at https://www.reddit.com/r/churning/wiki/manufactured_spending/.  It requires some effort to learn what works in your area, but if you're doing CC bonus churning long term it might be worth the effort for you.

I think others may have already mentioned, but getting a 2% for everything card might be worth it.  I use the Fidelity Visa version and have the cash back auto deposited into my Fidelity HSA, which gets me the full 2% and gives me a federal tax deduction.

Biz cards don't count against 5/24. And they often have the best bonuses. I can generally meet spend and get a new card every 2-3 months (in two player). Rotating between business cards makes it pretty easy to stay under 5/24. If people aren't jumping on these Chase Ink bonuses they are really missing out. This past year they've been $900 + $400 in referral for only $6000-$7500 spend. If you have a CSR, you can redeem at 1.5x on travel. So if your P2 can refer you and you have a CSR you are netting up to $1950 on $6000 spend! I did one for each of us last year and just signed up for another yesterday. I don't like to push it, so I'll only apply to one Ink card every 6 months to a year. But there are reports of people opening them up every 3 months.

[smisk]

This thread makes my head hurt lol. I have a Discover it and try to hit the 5% categories when I can - never thought of buying gift cards to hit the cap though.
Also have a Chase Sapphire Preferred and a United Explorer Mileage Plus but I don't use them often and honestly I forget what all the benefits are.

[Michael in ABQ]

I just got the Chase Ink Business Premier - $1,000 bonus for $10k spend in the first 3 months. More importantly, 2.5% cash back on purchases over $5,000 and 2% on everything else. All of our suppliers take credit cards for inventory purchases so it's not uncommon to have a monthly bill over $5k. I got the card today and would have already hit the for the bonus but one of our suppliers processed an $8k bill yesterday before I got the card.

It felt a bit ridiculous that they sent it UPS Next Day Air and it was packaged like an iPhone in an elaborate folding cardboard package. I guess they can afford to spend a few bucks on packaging when they expect customers to run 5-6 figures a year through it.

[kpd905]

This thread makes my head hurt lol. I have a Discover it and try to hit the 5% categories when I can - never thought of buying gift cards to hit the cap though.
Also have a Chase Sapphire Preferred and a United Explorer Mileage Plus but I don't use them often and honestly I forget what all the benefits are.

Do you  pay the fees on both of these cards without using the benefits?  That hurts my head.

I offered to split the referral bonus for the Chase Ink card with @jnw , if anyone else is interested in adding $150 to the already $900 bonus, PM me.

[jnw]

I offered to split the referral bonus for the Chase Ink card with @jnw , if anyone else is interested in adding $150 to the already $900 bonus, PM me.

Took up the offer using your referral code :)  Let me know when you get the referral bonus and I'll send ya my Venmo.

[smisk]

This thread makes my head hurt lol. I have a Discover it and try to hit the 5% categories when I can - never thought of buying gift cards to hit the cap though.
Also have a Chase Sapphire Preferred and a United Explorer Mileage Plus but I don't use them often and honestly I forget what all the benefits are.

Do you  pay the fees on both of these cards without using the benefits?  That hurts my head.

Yeah, I think I'm gonna cancel the United card - got a good signup bonus but I don't think it's worth keeping it. This thread has inspired me to look more closely at my card rewards, clearly I'm leaving some money on the table.

[sonofsven]

I got the email invite for the Chase Ink $900 on $6000 spend this morning. This is a card I've had before. I've applied for it twice in the last year and been denied.
I was approved for two US Bank business cards recently, one with $4k required spend and the other $7500.
If I do get approved for the Chase card I'll need to do manufactured spend as well to meet the requirements.
@secondcor521, that reddit link did not work for me. I don't have a reddit account, maybe that's why?

[jnw]

I got the email invite for the Chase Ink $900 on $6000 spend this morning. This is a card I've had before. I've applied for it twice in the last year and been denied.
I was approved for two US Bank business cards recently, one with $4k required spend and the other $7500.
If I do get approved for the Chase card I'll need to do manufactured spend as well to meet the requirements.
@secondcor521, that reddit link did not work for me. I don't have a reddit account, maybe that's why?

Check out doctor of credit, they posted a new deal :)  $900 for opening Chase Total Checking and Savings account.. deposit $15k for 90 days if I recall.  Turns out to be like a 20% APR if I recall correctly.

EDIT:  $900/$15,000 = 6% in 3.3 months -- the 0.3 is allowing for 10 extra days of opportunity cost for moving around the funds.  So 0.06/3.3 = 0.0182.  0.0182 * 12 = 21.8% APR.  [Not including the savings rate in the savings account which I assume is almost zero.]

https://www.doctorofcredit.com/targeted-chase-900-checking-savings-bonus/
https://www.profitablecontent.com/chase-600-checking-savings-bonus/

[frugalor]

I have heard about the Chase Ink Business Premier a lot.  I think I remember seeing even one without a business can apply.  Is that right?  If so, can I use it to pay my personal property tax, car insurance, and other personal expenses?  That's the only way I can spend close to 10K within 3 months.

[secondcor521]

@secondcor521, that reddit link did not work for me. I don't have a reddit account, maybe that's why?

I don't know.  It works for me.  I don't think I have a reddit account either.  That link asks me to sign in with Google or Apple, but I can still see the web page without logging in.

Anyhow, manufactured spending is a pretty well known term and there are plenty of web resources out there that discuss the topic.  Out of all the places I've read about it, the reddit forum I linked to seemed to be the most thorough and up to date, although you do have to wade through a lot of chatter sometimes to get the golden nuggets.

Personally, I've just used the route of buying Visa gift cards at Fred Meyer, then using those gift cards to buy money orders at Walmart, then depositing those money orders into my checking account.  It's a three step process which costs maybe 1% when done properly, and one can easily do $500 a day or more that way.

The fragile link here is that some Walmart employees don't like letting you do the second step because they think it's money laundering.  Also, I haven't done this in a few years as lately I've switched to piggybacking more than bonus churning and MS because it's more lucrative and easier IMHO.

I think last time around I did the Redstone FCU approach because it was easier and less costly.

In general, MS methods shift over time, so what I've described may or may not work any more, and there may have been new methods discovered.  People are surprisingly willing to try new MS ideas and share them if they work.

[Michael in ABQ]

I have heard about the Chase Ink Business Premier a lot.  I think I remember seeing even one without a business can apply.  Is that right?  If so, can I use it to pay my personal property tax, car insurance, and other personal expenses?  That's the only way I can spend close to 10K within 3 months.

I doubt it. I had to provide EIN, NAICS code, business address, estimated monthly spend, etc. I'm pretty sure they check Dun & Bradstreet as I had a notification about a credit inquiry. They provided an $80k credit limit so it's clearly targeted at businesses spending 6 figures a year on the card.

[elysianfields]

This is fine.  But I would never remember which card to use for what with this many cards and a rotating category card.  And you get a lot more points from signing bonuses.  We have a couple of everyday use cards and periodically get new cards for travel hacking.

If you're old school and use physical credit cards like me, just print out the categories on your label maker and affix the labels to the appropriate card.

[sonofsven]

@secondcor521, that reddit link did not work for me. I don't have a reddit account, maybe that's why?

I don't know.  It works for me.  I don't think I have a reddit account either.  That link asks me to sign in with Google or Apple, but I can still see the web page without logging in.

Anyhow, manufactured spending is a pretty well known term and there are plenty of web resources out there that discuss the topic.  Out of all the places I've read about it, the reddit forum I linked to seemed to be the most thorough and up to date, although you do have to wade through a lot of chatter sometimes to get the golden nuggets.

Personally, I've just used the route of buying Visa gift cards at Fred Meyer, then using those gift cards to buy money orders at Walmart, then depositing those money orders into my checking account.  It's a three step process which costs maybe 1% when done properly, and one can easily do $500 a day or more that way.

The fragile link here is that some Walmart employees don't like letting you do the second step because they think it's money laundering.  Also, I haven't done this in a few years as lately I've switched to piggybacking more than bonus churning and MS because it's more lucrative and easier IMHO.

I think last time around I did the Redstone FCU approach because it was easier and less costly.

In general, MS methods shift over time, so what I've described may or may not work any more, and there may have been new methods discovered.  People are surprisingly willing to try new MS ideas and share them if they work.

Thanks for laying out the basics. I tried the link using my phone and it worked.

[sonofsven]

I got the email invite for the Chase Ink $900 on $6000 spend this morning. This is a card I've had before. I've applied for it twice in the last year and been denied.
I was approved for two US Bank business cards recently, one with $4k required spend and the other $7500.
If I do get approved for the Chase card I'll need to do manufactured spend as well to meet the requirements.
@secondcor521, that reddit link did not work for me. I don't have a reddit account, maybe that's why?

Check out doctor of credit, they posted a new deal :)  $900 for opening Chase Total Checking and Savings account.. deposit $15k for 90 days if I recall.  Turns out to be like a 20% APR if I recall correctly.

EDIT:  $900/$15,000 = 6% in 3.3 months -- the 0.3 is allowing for 10 extra days of opportunity cost for moving around the funds.  So 0.06/3.3 = 0.0182.  0.0182 * 12 = 21.8% APR.  [Not including the savings rate in the savings account which I assume is almost zero.]

https://www.doctorofcredit.com/targeted-chase-900-checking-savings-bonus/
https://www.profitablecontent.com/chase-600-checking-savings-bonus/

I'm timed out on Chase personal accounts til late November, and business accounts for another year.

[therethere]

I have heard about the Chase Ink Business Premier a lot.  I think I remember seeing even one without a business can apply.  Is that right?  If so, can I use it to pay my personal property tax, car insurance, and other personal expenses?  That's the only way I can spend close to 10K within 3 months.

The key is to apply as a sole proprietor with your SSN. Then do not make up a business name. The business name needs to be your actual name. IIRC most of the people who did not get approved via their SSN were because they used a business name, and then had no additional documents to support that name. I've applied to 6+ cards in this fashion and haven't been denied yet.

FYI Right now you might as well do one of the no AF Ink cards for $900 on $6000 spend.

[frugalor]

I have heard about the Chase Ink Business Premier a lot.  I think I remember seeing even one without a business can apply.  Is that right?  If so, can I use it to pay my personal property tax, car insurance, and other personal expenses?  That's the only way I can spend close to 10K within 3 months.

The key is to apply as a sole proprietor with your SSN. Then do not make up a business name. The business name needs to be your actual name. IIRC most of the people who did not get approved via their SSN were because they used a business name, and then had no additional documents to support that name. I've applied to 6+ cards in this fashion and haven't been denied yet.

FYI Right now you might as well do one of the no AF Ink cards for $900 on $6000 spend.

Will I be able to use the business credit card on property taxes, car insurance, etc?

[Telecaster]

Will I be able to use the business credit card on property taxes, car insurance, etc?

You can, but be really careful if you have an actual business.  You don't want to co-mingle personal and business money.

[jnw]

I just learned about the following AMAZING card to add to my 5% cashback on all strategy:

Kroger Rewards World Elite Mastercard
5% cash back on mobile wallet purchases (e.g. Apple Pay), on up to $3000 in purchases per year.

I learned about it first from the following video -- [also from the following video I learned you can have say three US Bank Cash+ cards, similar to what people do with multiple Citi Custom Cash cards].

The ULTIMATE Credit Card Setup for 5% Cash Back on EVERYTHING!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vl3ytsl3jM

Here is another youtube video where a guy raves about this Kroger card (rightfully so) and goes into more detail about it:

The MOST Underrated Credit Cards in the Credit Card World
https://youtu.be/PvuOYdHLnuQ?t=170

There or more videos on YouTube about it if you do a search there.

Why aren't people talking about this card ? :)   I definitely want it.  Fills the gaps in so many purchases.



So with the above, the following is my revised plan:  (To be honest the 2nd US Bank Cash+ card isn't really necessary for me since I don't stream much and rarely shop at department stores.  The third Citi Custom Cash might not be worth it as well since I don't dine much and already get 3% cashback on it when I do.)

[simonsez]

@jnw  Any reason still using the BoA card for 1.5% on everything else when a 2% no annual fee card with a sign up bonus (that's not Chase) exists?  Just curious since you seem pretty optimized as it is and already have one of the cards that gets you 2%+ cash back (Discover It Cashback) when you redeem rewards.

[jnw]

@jnw  Any reason still using the BoA card for 1.5% on everything else when a 2% no annual fee card with a sign up bonus (that's not Chase) exists?  Just curious since you seem pretty optimized as it is and already have one of the cards that gets you 2%+ cash back (Discover It Cashback) when you redeem rewards.

You make a valid point, yeah I realize I am not optimized there yet, but it's what I currently have.   When I go for an additional Citi Custom Cash card, it has to be a product change from another Citi card.  So I'll be getting like 2 x Citi Double Cash cards over the next couple years, so that will give me 2%.  Eventually I do need a dedicated 2% card.  Maybe Wells Fargo Active Cash or just stick with a Citi Double Cash. I don't care for the Fidelity one because it auto invests it each and every transaction I believe, which would be a bookkeeping nightmare for me as I manually track all my transactions in gnucash (to the penny), including ordinary and qualified dividends as well as short term and long term capital gains.

The BofA Unlimited card is currently 1.5% but say later on, several years down the road, I have say $100K in VTI, I can transfer that to Merril Lynch for a transfer bonus.  Once > $100k is there I get special status with Bank of America and then get 2.62% cash back on that 1.5% card.  BofA Custom Cash is also a nice card to have if one has this status as online purchases would then be 5.5% cashback.   But to be honest I don't think I'll do the Merrill Lynch thing because it requires you have a BofA checking account, and well I want to churn that account, every two years or so, for $300 sign up bonus each time.

So it might just end up being a Citi Double Cash card for my 2% card perhaps.  Need to research 2% cashback cards more.. but not personally fond of the Fidelity one.

EDIT: I do use the Discover It Cashback card for 2% back.. it's my primary card for that.  But I guess I didn't initially add it to the page since it'll be 1% cashback in like 5 or 6 months from now.

[secondcor521]

I don't care for the Fidelity one because it auto invests it each and every transaction I believe, which would be a bookkeeping nightmare for me as I manually track all my transactions in gnucash (to the penny), including ordinary and qualified dividends as well as short term and long term capital gains.

I have the Fidelity 2% cash back, and I can confirm that it does *not* work as you describe it.  It does *not* do the bonus on a per-transaction basis.  Like most other cards, it figures up your 2% bonus monthly.

I have mine set up to auto deposit my 2% bonus into my Fidelity HSA (one of the best HSAs around it seems).  I go in every month a day or two after the bonus posts and use my cash back to buy VTI inside my HSA.  Zero fees of any kind going on several years now.

The HSA contribution of my 2% bonus is deductible on my taxes, which allows me to Roth convert more.  Because of these tax effects in my case I consider it a 2.66% card.

The Fidelity card does have one quirk:  If you don't deposit the bonus into a Fidelity account and just cash out or statement credit or whatever, then the bonus is halved and becomes 1% effectively.  I had the Fidelity HSA anyway so I don't mind this quirk.  I believe you could open a regular Fidelity brokerage account and get the 2% that way.

[jnw]

Thanks for clearing this up for me. I might end up going with the Fidelity then, since I'd have control over when it is sent to savings and can do it in bulk like you say.  I usually cash out my credit card rewards everywhere as statement credits maybe once every two or three months.

[JupiterGreen]

I just learned about the following AMAZING card to add to my 5% cashback on all strategy:

Kroger Rewards World Elite Mastercard
5% cash back on mobile wallet purchases (e.g. Apple Pay), on up to $3000 in purchases per year.

I learned about it first from the following video -- [also from the following video I learned you can have say three US Bank Cash+ cards, similar to what people do with multiple Citi Custom Cash cards].

Thanks this one looks really good! I'll check out the videos you linked to your post

[jnw]

Thanks this one looks really good! I'll check out the videos you linked to your post

Here's another link about this Kroger card on Profitable Content -- a great unique web site with US state landing pages for bank sign up bonuses. :
https://www.profitablecontent.com/kroger-card-50-intro-offer-5x-mobile-wallet-spend/

At the bottom of the above web page there is a section on referral information for this card.  If you sign up with Kroger directly I don't believe you get a bonus but if you use the referral then you get $50 and the referrer gets $20.  The referrer isn't me btw, but it is someone I know .. actually a guy who I told about the Kroger credit card a couple days ago; he immediately applied for it and got it. He then shared his referral info for it on the above Profitable Content page.  I want to get this card but am at 4/24 now and still churning Chase Ink Business credit cards.  I want Sapphire Preferred next as well for my 5/24.. when there is an 80k bonus. Eventually I'll get this card.

EDIT: to be honest I wish this card had like a $200 sign up bonus like most other cards.

[fuzzy math]

"Ideally I'd get 5% cash back on everything"

YES


My household strategy. Cards that have aged so long we cannot cancel are marked with an asterisk **

Amex blue cash (lower 3% grocery and gas, free version - DH carries this card for easy use)
Amex platinum (5% travel, all the reimbursements)
Amex gold (4% groceries and restaurants)
Bank of america world mastercard ** (3% on limited category of choice - I rarely use this)
Chase Amazon** (3% Amazon)
Wells Fargo active cash (2% everything)
Fidelity (2% everything)
Citi double cash** (2% everything)
Citi custom cash (5% currently on groceries, sometimes I switch it to gas depending on other card's monthly rotations)
Chase freedom (5% quarterly categories)


Eventually I'd cancel one of my 2 2% cards but I'm using a 0% into APR on one. Credit took a hit from 820 to 750 when I canceled 2 other cards in the space of a month so I can't really apply for anything else.

I'd be interested if there was a utilities and phone credit card that gave 4% + ... I can't really be bothered to change all our phone bills for quarterly categories. I'll whip out the correct card at a store, but always forget to change auto pay things.

[fuzzy math]

That US bank cash+ seems to fit my needs, but I'm not sure we spend enough to really justify having it. Might be better off just getting a higher sign up bonus elsewhere.

JNW - I'm curious if you've calculated your total returns on some of these things. You're a notoriously low spender, not buying a restaurant meal for over a year but carrying a limited use 3% restaurant card.

[jnw]

I'd be interested if there was a utilities and phone credit card that gave 4% + ... I can't really be bothered to change all our phone bills for quarterly categories. I'll whip out the correct card at a store, but always forget to change auto pay things.

There is one, I have it and mention it in my charts above.  It's the US Bank Cash+ Visa.  Every quarter you get 2 categories to choose from to get 5% cash back. I choose Utilities and Electronic Stores.

I get 5% back on all my utilities.  Both my natural gas and water/trash companies do not charge me any fee to pay by credit card, so I get a solid 5% back each month on those.  My electric company charges $1.85 processing free for using credit card:  the bill is around $126 usually.  1.85/126 = 1.5%.  So I get 5% back on electric from US bank and get charged 1.5%.. netting 3.5% on electric bill.

The electronic stores include Best Buy, Apple Store, Monoprice etc..

Here's what you can choose from, including cell phone bill.

[jnw]

That US bank cash+ seems to fit my needs, but I'm not sure we spend enough to really justify having it. Might be better off just getting a higher sign up bonus elsewhere.

JNW - I'm curious if you've calculated your total returns on some of these things. You're a notoriously low spender, not buying a restaurant meal for over a year but carrying a limited use 3% restaurant card.

I only signed up for that Capital One Savor One card because I heard it was a good card to have for selling tradelines (piggybacking).  But I have decided I am not going to pursue this source of income due to potential legal issues.  So this will be pretty much an unused card -- I'll let it age as I am not closing any zero annual fee cards from now on as I want higher overall credit limit and credit age.  Now I have Amex Business Gold charge card --opened for 150K MR sign up bonus (which I value at around $1500); it gets 4x on dining, so if I do go out dining I will use that card, but overall I get nothing out of the spending on this card as well.   Will cancel after a year most likely. (Btw, it was a big spend on that Amex Bus Gold card at $10k, but I had a bunch of big home repairs pop up, so it was easy to meet the requirement.)

I do plan on spending about $150 eating out on my BF's birthday next month -- going to a fancy restaurant and I'll tip well there, at least 25%.  Told myself I am not going to skimp on that :)  I did one single year where I didn't spend a dime on fast food, dining, convenience store food as well as coffeehouses; it was a good challenge for myself and learned a lot from it.  Altogether I am currently at about $60 this year in fast food, $0 dining, $10 convenience store food, $5 coffeehouses.

I really love the US Bank Cash+ card and think it's worth getting. It's my best 5% cashback card.  I get more back from the utility bills than shopping at "grocery" stores.   The Citi Custom Cash, which I use for groceries, doesn't work at Sams/Walmart.  I buy about 70% of my groceries at Aldi (along with a local discount grocer) at about $250 per month.  The other $100 is between Sam's and Walmart.  My utilities come to over $300 per month.  However, my best 5% cashback card this year though by far is the Discover It Cashback card with rotating categories, since the first year I am getting 10% cashback in those. 

EDIT:  5% cashback cards are nice for when you aren't churning a new card with big sign up bonus.  Say too many hard inquiries or over the Chase 5/24 rule etc..  It's comforting to me to know that for the rest of my life I will be getting back, at a minimum 5% of what I spend in utilities each year :)  Utilities are my second biggest expense each month, almost tied with groceries.

[EchoStache]

1)Chase Amazon    (3%) Amazon since we don't have, need, or benefit from Amazon Prime.
2)Citi Custom Cash (5%) grocery stores up to $500/month
3)Discover             (5%) if a good category such as Sam's Club, Costco, Amazon etc.
4)Fidelity               (2%)for everything else.  We buy a lot of groceries at Sam's Club and Costco so the 5% with Citi doesn't work.

LOVE the idea of using Fidelity for everything for simplicity but the above is pretty darn easy, honestly.   Everything is on autopay...pretty hands free.

I need to do a better job of tracking rewards to reinforce the value. 

Overall might be 3%?  Can't wait until someone offers a 3% on everything no strings attached.

Edit:  Wife has a Citi Custom Cash card as well.  so:
5)Citi Custom Cash #2 (5%) for eating out.  We are always far less than the $500 limit on this.

[fuzzy math]

That US bank cash+ seems to fit my needs, but I'm not sure we spend enough to really justify having it. Might be better off just getting a higher sign up bonus elsewhere.

JNW - I'm curious if you've calculated your total returns on some of these things. You're a notoriously low spender, not buying a restaurant meal for over a year but carrying a limited use 3% restaurant card.

I only signed up for that Capital One Savor One card because I heard it was a good card to have for selling tradelines (piggybacking).  But I have decided I am not going to pursue this source of income due to potential legal issues.  So this will be pretty much an unused card -- I'll let it age as I am not closing any zero annual fee cards from now on as I want higher overall credit limit and credit age.  Now I have Amex Business Gold charge card --opened for 150K MR sign up bonus (which I value at around $1500); it gets 4x on dining, so if I do go out dining I will use that card, but overall I get nothing out of the spending on this card as well.   Will cancel after a year most likely. (Btw, it was a big spend on that Amex Bus Gold card at $10k, but I had a bunch of big home repairs pop up, so it was easy to meet the requirement.)

I do plan on spending about $150 eating out on my BF's birthday next month -- going to a fancy restaurant and I'll tip well there, at least 25%.  Told myself I am not going to skimp on that :)  I did one single year where I didn't spend a dime on fast food, dining, convenience store food as well as coffeehouses; it was a good challenge for myself and learned a lot from it.  Altogether I am currently at about $60 this year in fast food, $0 dining, $10 convenience store food, $5 coffeehouses.

I really love the US Bank Cash+ card and think it's worth getting. It's my best 5% cashback card.  I get more back from the utility bills than shopping at "grocery" stores.   The Citi Custom Cash, which I use for groceries, doesn't work at Sams/Walmart.  I buy about 70% of my groceries at Aldi (along with a local discount grocer) at about $250 per month.  The other $100 is between Sam's and Walmart.  My utilities come to over $300 per month.  However, my best 5% cashback card this year though by far is the Discover It Cashback card with rotating categories, since the first year I am getting 10% cashback in those. 

EDIT:  5% cashback cards are nice for when you aren't churning a new card with big sign up bonus.  Say too many hard inquiries or over the Chase 5/24 rule etc..  It's comforting to me to know that for the rest of my life I will be getting back, at a minimum 5% of what I spend in utilities each year :)  Utilities are my second biggest expense each month, almost tied with groceries.

Yeah I think we'll end up with it. I just need to prioritize DH getting a good 0% intro APR card in about 6 months when my current one expires. I don't want to risk a denial (even though he's still at 840 credit score). We are finally selling the home we moved out of 6 months ago, lots of expenses related to that coming right down to closing day and I'm prioritizing having flex $$ and also unfortunately probably expecting an IRS bill too. So maybe in spring when things settle. I'm feeling way too creeped out by all of the unknowns right now. Thanks for the recommendation!

[jnw]

Yeah I think we'll end up with it. I just need to prioritize DH getting a good 0% intro APR card in about 6 months when my current one expires. I don't want to risk a denial (even though he's still at 840 credit score). We are finally selling the home we moved out of 6 months ago, lots of expenses related to that coming right down to closing day and I'm prioritizing having flex $$ and also unfortunately probably expecting an IRS bill too. So maybe in spring when things settle. I'm feeling way too creeped out by all of the unknowns right now. Thanks for the recommendation!

The U.S. Bank Cash+ Visa card has 0% APR on purchases for 15 months, as well as a $200 sign up bonus -- I got the card in August of this year. The initial credit limit they gave me was $2000, but I am low income; it's still currently at $2000 but expect they will raise it soon enough. Capital One only gave me $1000 credit limit at the start, but now after like 6 months it's up to $6400.

As an alternative to the US Bank Cash+ Visa, you can get the exact same card under the name "Max Cash Preferred Visa" at many different credit unions.  It's a product by Elan provided to credit unions.  It might be easier to get it through a credit union, as U.S. bank can be picky.  If you go with U.S. bank it might be a good idea to open say a brokerage account with them first since anyone can do that from any state.  Once established you can get many products from them from out of state. (A good way to get some extra cash is to open up bank accounts for sign up bonuses.. you can actually get a lot more doing this compared to churning credit cards.)

[Telecaster]

Credit took a hit from 820 to 750 when I canceled 2 other cards in the space of a month so I can't really apply for anything else.

Interesting.  I see almost none--maybe none--credit hit from canceling cards.  Maybe a point or two because my available credit is lower.  I'm not a churner by any means, but I open and close credit  cards fairly routinely. 

[midweststache]

PTF.

We're likely to need a new car in 2-4 years, so I'm not thrilled with the idea of cancelling any of our credit cards in the near future, as we may need a credit pull, but we have some legacy cards from 15+ years ago when we started building credit and didn't know any better that I'd like to eventually cancel and optimize. (Do I have a Barnes & Noble Mastercard from when I was 18 and thought book money was the epitome of cash back? Yes. Yes I do.)

I'm SUPER-intrigued by the Citi Custom Cash - I'll have to look into our utilities and see if there's an option and/or fee for CC payments!

[jnw]

PTF.

We're likely to need a new car in 2-4 years, so I'm not thrilled with the idea of cancelling any of our credit cards in the near future, as we may need a credit pull, but we have some legacy cards from 15+ years ago when we started building credit and didn't know any better that I'd like to eventually cancel and optimize. (Do I have a Barnes & Noble Mastercard from when I was 18 and thought book money was the epitome of cash back? Yes. Yes I do.)

I'm SUPER-intrigued by the Citi Custom Cash - I'll have to look into our utilities and see if there's an option and/or fee for CC payments!

Why cancel the old cards?  They give you an overall increased credit limit, which improves your utilization percentage.  They also improve your average credit age.   I have a couple useless cards -- old Payal & Credit Union cards with horrible rewards -- I am keeping primarily because they are they oldest cards I have improving credit age, and also one of them has a $12k credit limit, currently my second highest credit limit of all the cards I have.

Yeah I love the Citi Custom Cash and U.S. Bank cards.  I think those two are the best 5% cards.

EDIT: I tried ranking them last night according to how much value the cards give me -- or will give me once I get them all -- with respect to cashback:
1. Citi Custom Cash -- 5% groceries
2. US Bank Cash+ -- 5% utilities, 5% Electronics Stores
3. Discover It Cashback -- 5% rotating (10% the first year)
4. Chase Freedom Flex -- 5% rotating
5. Kroger Rewards World Elite -- 5% mobile wallet [drugstores, eBay, fast food, etc. ($3k annual limit)]
6. Citi Shop Your Way -- 5% gas & monthly stacking promotions
7. Chase Ink Business Cash -- 5% office supply (gift cards), internet, phone & cable
8. Chase Amazon Prime -- 5% w/ prime membership, 3% otherwise -- it's last due to the "annual fee" (membership)

Of the above 8, I am missing the Chase Freedom Flex, Kroger and Citi Shop Your Way cards.  In the meantime I am using my recently acquired Amex Business Gold card for 4x on Dining & Gas -- I won't have this card for more than 12 months though as the annual fee is insane.

Of the above 8 cards, the Chase Ink Business Cash seems to be the most enticing at $900 sign up bonus and gives you 5% back on your internet & phone .. also cable if you have (we don't).  Also 5% back at office supply for gift cards.  [My business is a small sole proprietorship where I use my SSN on the Chase app.  I get a small amount of income from referral bonuses, currently at around $300 hundred dollars so far this year.. but a valid business anyways.]

[midweststache]

PTF.

We're likely to need a new car in 2-4 years, so I'm not thrilled with the idea of cancelling any of our credit cards in the near future, as we may need a credit pull, but we have some legacy cards from 15+ years ago when we started building credit and didn't know any better that I'd like to eventually cancel and optimize. (Do I have a Barnes & Noble Mastercard from when I was 18 and thought book money was the epitome of cash back? Yes. Yes I do.)

I'm SUPER-intrigued by the Citi Custom Cash - I'll have to look into our utilities and see if there's an option and/or fee for CC payments!

Why cancel the old cards?  They give you an overall increased credit limit, which improves your utilization percentage.  They also improve your average credit age.   I have a couple useless cards -- old Payal & Credit Union cards with horrible rewards -- I am keeping primarily because they are they oldest cards I have improving credit age, and also one of them has a $12k credit limit, currently my second highest credit limit of all the cards I have.

Yeah I love the Citi Custom Cash and U.S. Bank cards.  I think those two are the best 5% cards.

EDIT: I tried ranking them last night according to how much value the cards give me -- or will give me once I get them all -- with respect to cashback:
1. Citi Custom Cash -- 5% groceries
2. US Bank Cash+ -- 5% utilities, 5% Electronics Stores
3. Discover It Cashback -- 5% rotating (10% the first year)
4. Chase Freedom Flex -- 5% rotating
5. Kroger Rewards World Elite -- 5% mobile wallet [drugstores, eBay, fast food, etc. ($3k annual limit)]
6. Citi Shop Your Way -- 5% gas & monthly stacking promotions
7. Chase Ink Business Cash -- 5% office supply (gift cards), internet, phone & cable
8. Chase Amazon Prime -- 5% w/ prime membership, 3% otherwise -- it's last due to the "annual fee" (membership)

Of the above 8, I am missing the Chase Freedom Flex, Kroger and Citi Shop Your Way cards.  In the meantime I am using my recently acquired Amex Business Gold card for 4x on Dining & Gas -- I won't have this card for more than 12 months though as the annual fee is insane.

Of the above 8 cards, the Chase Ink Business Cash seems to be the most enticing at $900 sign up bonus and gives you 5% back on your internet & phone .. also cable if you have (we don't).  Also 5% back at office supply for gift cards.  [My business is a small sole proprietorship where I use my SSN on the Chase app.  I get a small amount of income from referral bonuses, currently at around $300 hundred dollars so far this year.. but a valid business anyways.]

It's a fine balance for me of optimizing spending and simplicity/minimalist tendencies. :)

[jnw]

I respect that :)

I'm a minimalist pretty much when it comes to spending.  But I love complexity if it can save me money :)

EDIT: At least with all those cards above I only really need to perhaps carry the physical Discover It Cashback and Freedom Flex cards.  All the rest are pay at home, or accessible via Apple Pay.

[jnw]

Something I threw together.  I think am gonna go with this. I imagine I'll only need to carry about two cards in my physical wallet at any given time; Apple Wallet handling the majority of it.

I'm pretty frugal so all the spend caps don't affect me really.  Like I usually spend $250 per month on my Citi Custom Cash for groceries; we buy another $150 each month in groceries from Sams/Walmart.

All six of these cards are highly flexible -- no single 5% fixed category cards... e.g. no Blue Cash Preferred, AAA Daily Advantage, Citi Shop Your Way, etc. All of the six cards cards mentioned are annual fee free.

The Citi Custom Cash can alternate between Groceries and Drugstores (or possibly Home Improvement during some random month).. it alternates based on current Freedom Flex and Discover It Cashback rotating categories.

I do have Chase Amazon Prime as a 3% cashback backup for Amazon orders.  I can also get Amazon gift cards from Staples or other stores using the Ink Cash or rotating category cards.



I like the idea of the annual fee free Amex Blue Business Plus as my catch-all b/c I can use this card to retain all banked MR points so I don't lose them when I close out any Amex Gold/Platinum personal/business cards I've churned.  It will also give me a little MR so I can use it to book a flight here and there for a family member to come visit every couple years.  I also like having the extended 1 year warranty & purchase protection, as well as access to Amex Offers.  Eventually after I've churned the very last amex card: the business platinum card, I'll probably cash out all the leftover banked MR points at a 1 Cent-Per-Point ratio.

[jnw]

Did a little simulation, testing my "5% Hexafecta" using the past 3 years of rotating categories for Freedom Flex and Discover It Cashback.  The following image shows how I'd perhaps allocate both the Citi Custom Cash as well as Kroger Rewards card each quarter, to always have Groceries, Gas, Drugstores and Dining covered for 5% cashback.  (This assumes I can use Paypal Pay at CVS & Walgreens to pay for drugs, which I believe is the case from what I've been told about Paypal Pay.) 

For the other two cards: the US Bank Cash+ as well as Chase Ink Business Cash, they are always assigned to Utilities, Electronics Stores (US Bank Cash+) as well as Internet & Phone (Ink Cash).  On some quarters the Electronic Stores selection can be swapped out for Department Stores or say Furniture Stores for example (depending on spending needs) -- although I do try and buy all my furniture used at 1/10th the cost of new.   Gift cards can be purchased from Staples or Office Depot using Ink Cash for 5% cashback, if needed.

My total my drugstore medication purchases might reach $2k next year.  I spend less than $500 per year on auto fuel and less than $300 for dining.

With how little I spend on Gas & Dining, it looks like I'd probably only spend perhaps $1k of the $3k cap of the Kroger Rewards (mobile wallet purchases only) card.  So I'd have like $2k to work with on the Kroger card for whatever else I need 5% cash back on, e.g. eBay purchase etc..   (eBay does accept Apple Pay via iPhone app checkout, although not on Mac web browser it seems.)

EDIT: On the months where the Citi Custom Cash isn't Groceries, e.g. Gas & Restaurants, if there is a better category to use for a given month, it can be used instead, e.g. Home Improvement Stores.   The Kroger card can then cover the gas or dining for that month.   Btw, if the   particular restaurant I am dining at does not accept Apple Pay, I'll use the Freedom Flex as a 3% cashback backup.

[secondcor521]

Did a little simulation, testing my "5% Hexafecta" using the past 3 years of rotating categories for Freedom Flex and Discover It Cashback.

How much are you actually saving per year with all of this?  I suspect you're doing it mostly for the enjoyment as a financial hobby that pays.

One thing that has helped me over the years is putting financial things into perspective.  For a long while I chased the cheapest gas in town, planning my errands and fill ups around what GasBuddy said.  Then I did the math and figured out that for all my effort I was maybe saving $20 a year.  I could save that $20 more easily by skipping McDonald's once.  So I decided to "spend" $20 a year and just not worry about it.

I understand when Bogleheads folks do all of this CC stuff -- they're spending $100K a year and 3% vs 5% adds up.  But for someone who doesn't spend much and might save $200 a year, it makes more sense to me to just do one bank bonus or something and then not worry about the complexities that you're talking about.

Of course, someone can do both.  I get that too.  But for the $/time ratio, it might be reasonable to just do one bank bonus or skip McDonald's once rather than spend all the time and effort running around town to the cheapest pump or juggling half a dozen credit cards.

And if you enjoy it, that makes sense too.  Discover offered me $25 to add an AU and make one purchase.  Easy enough, so I did it.

[jnw]

It's psychological to a good degree I agree; it does give me great enjoyment that I can get 5% cashback on everything I can; it's fun.  I've done the math.  But it does all add up. I save $50 here and there everywhere I can -- e.g. using Walmart dishwashing powder instead of Finish tabs saves me $50 per year and dishes come at as clean or better. (I kind of take TTWG approach to frugality.)  Now that I have it figured it out, it shouldn't be much effort at all moving forward with it.  Most everything will be in Apple Wallet and will only need to carry 2 physical cards any given quarter.

For each new quarter, I am going to make a small list of stores/categories along with which card to use; print it out, laminate it with packing tape, and place on the back of our iphones, under our clear silicone cases.   So this will work great for either apple pay or phyiscal card purchases, since it's a simple flip of the phone for the list.

EDIT: skipping one mcdonalds would be really easy to do since I recently went an entire year without a penny spent on dining, fast food, convenience stores and coffeehouses.

EDIT #2: Credit card sign up bonuses are another thing I do as well. And that will mean that some of these 5% cashback cards get even less use from time to time. I do try and line up credit card SUBS with big fixed expenses like homeowner's insurance, property tax, car insurance, big medical bills, home repairs, etc.. [Also I have a couple family members who pay for everything via debit card, and they don't mind letting me pay instead with my SUB card -- for large purchases -- and get reimbursed in cash from them.]

EDIT #3.  Here's some example savings using 5% card over 2% card.  Since I spend $4800 per year on groceries, I get an extra $144 per year in the bank with the 5% card compared to using a 2% card.  My medications will be around $2k per year starting next year.  Using a 5% card over 2% card for medications, this amounts to an extra $60 per year.  I spend $4200 per year on utilities, so an extra $126 per year using %5 card over 2% card.   Add in the ebay, Amazon etc purchases.. probably at least another $100 there saved.  I'd say overall using a 5% card over 2% card gets me at least an extra $500 bucks per year if I were to just guess.  To me it's worth it to flip the phone over if I need to see which card to use for $500 per year.  [People quit using TP to save $75 per year in paper. $500 is 6.7 times that with a simple flip of the phone when needed. Much less work or mess.]

EDIT #4:  So here is an example of might been on the back of our iPhones under their clear cases, for Q1 of 2023.  As you can see I would of needed to carry two phsyical cards: Citi Custom Cash and Amex BBP (or SUB card).   And when we went to Sam's Club we would of needed to bring the WM/Sams gift card -- once per month event.  [AP = Apple Pay; WP = Walmart Pay; Phys = Physical Card; we don't have Paypal Pay here for this quarter but if we did it would be designated as (PP).]


EDIT #5: A friend of mine gave me this idea instead of printing out the list and putting on the back of the phone:

[jnw]

So with Chase announcing yesterday the Q1 2024 rotating categories for Freedom Flex to be: 1) Grocery Stores 2) Fitness Clubs and Gym Memberships 3) Spas, my card allocation for my six 5% cashback cards would be:

Freedom Flex: Groceries
Discover It: Drugstores & Restaurants
Citi Custom Cash: Gas
Kroger Rewards: Ebay, Dollar Tree, Convenience Stores and other stores which accept Apple Pay.
US Bank Cash+: Home Utilities & Electronic Stores
Chase Ink Cash: Internet, Phone & Office Supply (for any gift cards)
Other / Catch-all: Chase Ink Preferred (SUB card)

I would only need to carry two physical cards: 1) Discover It Cashback for restaurants which don't take Apple Pay 2) Chase Ink Preferred -- my current SUB card.

My iPhone home screen wall paper would look something like this:


Took me about 10 minutes to construct that list after Chase made their announcement yesterday.  Would take 5 more mins to put it on the phone home screen.  And takes a quick second to look at before making a purchase out and about , whether it be via apple pay or one of the two physical cards carried in wallet.  So for me it's fairly "simple" and gives me cashback on almost everything I can.

EDIT:  AP = Apple Pay. WP = Walmart Pay.  PP = Paypal Pal.  Phys = Physical Card.

EDIT #2: The Amazon Gift Card Balance mentioned above in the home screen wallpaper list, was loaded Q4 2023 with the Discover It card: $300 -- since Q4 for this card was Amazon.com (along with Target).  I do have the Chase Amazon Prime card as a 3% backup -- I don't keep a Prime Membership unless they offer it to me for free for a month.  Amazon gift cards are readily available at drugstores, gas stations, office supply, Target as well -- so pretty easy to get them when needed every single quarter.  However, I am interested in the Affinity Amazon 5% cashback card with $0 annual fee -- from Affinity CU -- but this card isn't necessary really.. would just be a bonus card later on down the road, only used for Amazon.com (so not even carried in physical wallet nor Apple Wallet).

[getsorted]

Tip for organizing cards: I print and fold little sleeves for each one so I remember which one to use for what type of purchase. I carry a purse anyway so having a few more cards & some paper isn't a big deal.

I first did this when my son was a baby and I was trying to cut down my impulse spending. Put a picture of him on a sleeve with my debit card inside and wrote "Please don't spend my college fund on bullshit."

[fuzzy math]

So with Chase announcing yesterday the Q1 2024 rotating categories for Freedom Flex to be: 1) Grocery Stores 2) Fitness Clubs and Gym Memberships 3) Spas, my card allocation for my six 5% cashback cards would be:

Freedom: Groceries
Citi Custom Cash: Gas

My plan too!

[jnw]

So with Chase announcing yesterday the Q1 2024 rotating categories for Freedom Flex to be: 1) Grocery Stores 2) Fitness Clubs and Gym Memberships 3) Spas, my card allocation for my six 5% cashback cards would be:

Freedom: Groceries
Citi Custom Cash: Gas

My plan too!

What do you use for restaurants and drugstores?  The Flex? 

[fuzzy math]

So with Chase announcing yesterday the Q1 2024 rotating categories for Freedom Flex to be: 1) Grocery Stores 2) Fitness Clubs and Gym Memberships 3) Spas, my card allocation for my six 5% cashback cards would be:

Freedom: Groceries
Citi Custom Cash: Gas

My plan too!

What do you use for restaurants and drugstores?  The Flex?

Amex gold for restaurants / overflow groceries... we don't go to drug stores. I meant to comment to you earlier - have you priced out transferring medications to walmart / costco / sams club? Walgreens tends to be very high for prescriptions.

[jnw]

Amex gold for restaurants / overflow groceries... we don't go to drug stores. I meant to comment to you earlier - have you priced out transferring medications to walmart / costco / sams club? Walgreens tends to be very high for prescriptions.

Yes I've priced it all; in this case Walgreens is the best pharmacy for my list of medications -- last year CVS was the best.  I punch in my medications list into Medicare web site and it gives me list of Part D insurance to choose from, starting with the least expensive first; (I change this every year.)  Then there is a breakdown of pharmacies on that insurance company's medicare page and Walgreens is about half as expensive for me compared to Walmart.

I do know what you are talking about, I've used Walmart for many years b/c they had the best prices, but no longer for my list of medications.

I have a $500 Part D Prescription Insurance deductible in January of like $550, so the 10% cashback I am getting off drugstores with the Discover It Cashback card will help out a lot.   Also Walgreens sells Amazon & Ebay cards there I believe, so I can pick up one of each of those as well in Q1 of 2024.

EDIT: I also double check with GoodRX to see if I can get a prescription cheaper than what my insurance company wants to charge me. I've used it a few times to save quite a bit.