Author Topic: My boss keeps refusing to give me a raise...  (Read 19923 times)

P938LVR

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My boss keeps refusing to give me a raise...
« on: July 08, 2014, 09:25:06 PM »
I work for a business that is owned by my father. I have helped the business to grow exponentially since I started working there. I work late and weekends and from home when needed and I make the company more money than anyone else yet I am repeatedly denied a raise. I wear many hats within the company and I also act as owner/manager when he is out of town (which is about once a month). I actively get more clients for the company than anyone else. He has recently hired one another person to work with me and this person makes more than I do per hour and they have more flexibility in their schedule as well.

I was also told that I would get a raise when we hired on another person and now that we have he has backed out of giving me the raise. He said he never agreed to do it. He said it on more than one occasion so I know that he did.

I asked for a very reasonable raise and I have outlined my qualities as well as what I bring to company however I am denied a raise every time. He either laughs at me when I ask for more money or gets mad because I asked. I like my job and do not want to quit but I know I am undervalued. I know the company can afford to pay me more (among the many hats I wear I am also the bookkeeper) he simply refuses to do so. I really need help with how to ask and get him to say yes. I know I am a valuable asset and I am worth more. Please help!
« Last Edit: July 08, 2014, 09:31:28 PM by P938LVR »

StarryC

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Re: My boss keeps refusing to give me a raise...
« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2014, 09:37:11 PM »
How old are you?  Assuming you are over 22, here is my advice:

Set up a meeting with your father and talk about your future with the company.  Is he thinking you are going to be an owner of this company someday?  Is he thinking you need to try something else and get experience?  If you leave, what is his plan for the company?  If he is thinking you are going to be an owner with the commensurate salary/  profit sharing someday soon, I might ask what he feels he needs to see to make that happen.  If you don't feel like his offer or plan is reasonable, I think you say, "Dad, I have really appreciated the experience I've had here.  I really hope I can return some day.  But for now, I think I need to learn about how other companies do things and build up my experience and see if I can earn more."  And then find a new job. 

You don't mention WHY you want more money.  That's fine.  But if you have a reason, it might help your Dad if you explain it.   But, it might not work because he might not agree with your reason. 

Russ

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Re: My boss keeps refusing to give me a raise...
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2014, 09:38:10 PM »
Real talk: it's not gonna happen. Either learn to live with it or leave.

gimp

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Re: My boss keeps refusing to give me a raise...
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2014, 09:50:51 PM »
He's not seeing you as a valuable employee and your own person, he's seeing you as an extension of himself, and that you should be grateful you have a job, just like how you should be grateful you were allowed to live at home, and ...

Fucking leave. You're an adult. Go take your many hats elsewhere.

Anatidae V

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Re: My boss keeps refusing to give me a raise...
« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2014, 10:01:06 PM »
He's not seeing you as a valuable employee and your own person, he's seeing you as an extension of himself, and that you should be grateful you have a job, just like how you should be grateful you were allowed to live at home, and ...

Fucking leave. You're an adult. Go take your many hats elsewhere.

+1. I talked my SO out of working for his dad until I could see they had an adult relationship where his dad realised he was a separate person and would value his work just like hiring any other contractor. Your dad cannot mentally separate you and treat you as an employee. You need to leave to give yourself confidence and proper pay. With luck, he might also realise how valuable you were too.

CarDude

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Re: My boss keeps refusing to give me a raise...
« Reply #5 on: July 08, 2014, 10:12:40 PM »
He's not seeing you as a valuable employee and your own person, he's seeing you as an extension of himself, and that you should be grateful you have a job, just like how you should be grateful you were allowed to live at home, and ...

Fucking leave. You're an adult. Go take your many hats elsewhere.

Yup. He doesn't respect you as an employee, and is additionally taking massive advantage of you. I'd leave as soon as I had an emergency fund.

MikeBear

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Re: My boss keeps refusing to give me a raise...
« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2014, 10:48:36 PM »
It would be a COLD day in HELL before I would work for my father.

That's pretty much what almost everybody else would tell you. Even if you have a good relationship, family will typically never value you the same as an outside company.

Get into marketing yourself elsewhere, and find out who's right on your actual worth: YOU or your Dad.

Once you do well elsewhere, it might wake him up. Then you can go from there.

deborah

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Re: My boss keeps refusing to give me a raise...
« Reply #7 on: July 08, 2014, 11:03:04 PM »
How old are you?  Assuming you are over 22, here is my advice:

Set up a meeting with your father and talk about your future with the company.  Is he thinking you are going to be an owner of this company someday?  Is he thinking you need to try something else and get experience?  If you leave, what is his plan for the company?  If he is thinking you are going to be an owner with the commensurate salary/  profit sharing someday soon, I might ask what he feels he needs to see to make that happen.  If you don't feel like his offer or plan is reasonable, I think you say, "Dad, I have really appreciated the experience I've had here.  I really hope I can return some day.  But for now, I think I need to learn about how other companies do things and build up my experience and see if I can earn more."  And then find a new job.
I agree with this.

It is a bummer when you have someone working for you who is earning more than you. Try to think about it rationally (I know it would be difficult for me). Are they actually more skilled than you in some areas? Are they making decisions, or are you? Are they a permanent employee or a contractor (contractors usually earn more)?

Think about what your father expects - does he expect you to be in charge when he is gone, or are you just doing it because you should? Does he really expect you to work long hours? Was the extra person hired to reduce your hours? Does your dad know that you have brought in more business? Sometimes people "should" know things, but don't. Talk to him about all these things, so that he appreciates the work you are putting in, and be prepared for him to discuss any failings you have (ask him), and any training you need.

Tell him that you were expecting things, and are unhappy that these expectations haven't been met. Ask for an agreement for the future, and make sure the two of you put it in writing, and that you are both happy with it. If you can't come to an agreement, or even if you can, you should discuss whether you need outside experience as well. My aunt and uncle had a business, and sent their son to work at other similar businesses and at some of their suppliers so that he would have a broader understanding of the business. Suggest this type of thing to your dad, and see what he says - it can only be good for the business.

tomsang

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Re: My boss keeps refusing to give me a raise...
« Reply #8 on: July 08, 2014, 11:09:00 PM »
Maybe you are receiving a raise without seeing it. He may be grooming you to take over. If he hands you the keys you may be receiving millions for our sweat equity. I think an adult conversation is the best. What is his plans, how does he see you, etc. Approach the conversation like an adult.

msilenus

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Re: My boss keeps refusing to give me a raise...
« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2014, 11:26:17 PM »
Leave.  If Thanksgiving is awkward, start a competing business.  If he hasn't come around by Christmas, start cold-calling his clients.

BFGirl

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Re: My boss keeps refusing to give me a raise...
« Reply #10 on: July 09, 2014, 05:40:00 AM »
I would talk to him first about the long term plans for you and the company.  However, a mere promise that you will get the business someday may not be enough to stay.  I have seen too many situations where family members or even loyal employees were promised something that never materialized.  If your father isn't open to appreciating your value either salarywise or with an ownership stake in the company, then it may be time to strike out on your own.

Joggernot

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Re: My boss keeps refusing to give me a raise...
« Reply #11 on: July 09, 2014, 05:59:36 AM »
If he implies that you will get the company, pin him down as to when.  If you have to wait 30 years at the same salary, it might not be worth it.  Knowing the time period will allow you to make an informed decision.

DocCyane

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Re: My boss keeps refusing to give me a raise...
« Reply #12 on: July 09, 2014, 06:07:22 AM »
Does your father also pay other expenses for you? Do you live with him? Does he pay for your car, insurance, phone? That may impact his choice of what your salary is.

Also, is he aware of your budget? He may think you don't need extra money because he paid for your college and you don't have many expenses.

Sometimes when the boss knows too much about your life, he makes decisions based on that.

Cpa Cat

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Re: My boss keeps refusing to give me a raise...
« Reply #13 on: July 09, 2014, 06:40:34 AM »
Walk away.

Look, even if your father says he wants to leave the company to you, what guarantee do you have? When would it be? 20-30 years from now? When do you finally get to stop working for less than you're worth? If you're not paid a decent salary, how will you pay his asking price? How do you know that he'll even quote you a reasonable asking price?

If you're as valuable as you say, then he's going to feel it when you leave, and may ask you to return in a couple of years. The time apart will give you the opportunity to move out from under his shadow.

Leave.  If Thanksgiving is awkward, start a competing business.  If he hasn't come around by Christmas, start cold-calling his clients.

I know this is probably tongue-in-cheek, but it has the ring of good advice. If you are good at pulling in clients and know how to run this business, you could build a competing business long before your father comes around.

Alternatively, you could get experience in other businesses. A breadth of experience is valuable.

JCfire

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Re: My boss keeps refusing to give me a raise...
« Reply #14 on: July 09, 2014, 06:50:06 AM »
I disagree with the other responses that have really keyed in on the father/child relationship here.  Your story would not have been extraordinary or exceptional at all if you had omitted the family relationship entirely.  "I'm an exceptional worker vital to my business but I'm underpaid and can't get a raise.  I would consider leaving, but I like my job and don't want to quit."  That sums up the daily thoughts of a huge segment of the working population.

You like your job and you don't want to quit.  Sure you might make more money some other place, but what would you be trading for that money?  Would you have to move somewhere you'd rather not?  What kind of manager would you have?  What would your career path look like?  How much job security would you have when the next recession hits, compared to your current job?  What's worth more to you, the extra short-term cash or avoiding some of those likely unfavorable changes?  That's all before considering the family angle at all, which provides benefits on the career side and possibly outside of your career as well.

I think that the advice I would give if this were NOT a family business would be to talk with your supervisor or a mentor within your company about your career goals and aspirations, about your current frustrations, and your perception of how you're doing.  See if you need a reality check on your self-perception, and try to get some solid advice about whether you're on track to achieve what you'd like in the longer term, or (at least implicitly) whether a career move would make you more likely to realize those goals.  This advice is a little bit hard to implement in most cases, because those conversations can be very sensitive and with the wrong boss and wrong situation could cause your situation to deteriorate.  However, having that conversation with your own father is a luxury!  I think the advice holds even more within a family business than it would in the corporate world.

Good luck
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P938LVR

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Re: My boss keeps refusing to give me a raise...
« Reply #15 on: July 09, 2014, 06:52:04 AM »
How old are you?  Assuming you are over 22, here is my advice:

Set up a meeting with your father and talk about your future with the company.  Is he thinking you are going to be an owner of this company someday?  Is he thinking you need to try something else and get experience?  If you leave, what is his plan for the company?  If he is thinking you are going to be an owner with the commensurate salary/  profit sharing someday soon, I might ask what he feels he needs to see to make that happen.  If you don't feel like his offer or plan is reasonable, I think you say, "Dad, I have really appreciated the experience I've had here.  I really hope I can return some day.  But for now, I think I need to learn about how other companies do things and build up my experience and see if I can earn more."  And then find a new job.
I agree with this.

It is a bummer when you have someone working for you who is earning more than you. Try to think about it rationally (I know it would be difficult for me). Are they actually more skilled than you in some areas? Are they making decisions, or are you? Are they a permanent employee or a contractor (contractors usually earn more)?

Think about what your father expects - does he expect you to be in charge when he is gone, or are you just doing it because you should? Does he really expect you to work long hours? Was the extra person hired to reduce your hours? Does your dad know that you have brought in more business? Sometimes people "should" know things, but don't. Talk to him about all these things, so that he appreciates the work you are putting in, and be prepared for him to discuss any failings you have (ask him), and any training you need.

Tell him that you were expecting things, and are unhappy that these expectations haven't been met. Ask for an agreement for the future, and make sure the two of you put it in writing, and that you are both happy with it. If you can't come to an agreement, or even if you can, you should discuss whether you need outside experience as well. My aunt and uncle had a business, and sent their son to work at other similar businesses and at some of their suppliers so that he would have a broader understanding of the business. Suggest this type of thing to your dad, and see what he says - it can only be good for the business.

OP here. Thanks for the advice. My dad expects for me to be in charge when he is gone. He takes a vacation about once a month for a week at a time and during that I time I am the only one on call 24/7. He doesn't want to be bothered with anything at all. The extra person was brought on to reduce some of my daily workload in one area. They are not required to work late or after hours at all which is fine. He has told me he expects me to work weekends and nights even when he is not on vacation.

P938LVR

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Re: My boss keeps refusing to give me a raise...
« Reply #16 on: July 09, 2014, 06:54:17 AM »
Does your father also pay other expenses for you? Do you live with him? Does he pay for your car, insurance, phone? That may impact his choice of what your salary is.

Also, is he aware of your budget? He may think you don't need extra money because he paid for your college and you don't have many expenses.

Sometimes when the boss knows too much about your life, he makes decisions based on that.

OP here. He does not pay any expenses at all for me. In fact, I incur business expenses and I am not reimbursed all of the time. I am in my 30's, married and have not lived at home since I was a teenager.

neo von retorch

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Re: My boss keeps refusing to give me a raise...
« Reply #17 on: July 09, 2014, 06:57:45 AM »
Your problems and consequences are not your father's. So what you want doesn't really matter to him. You are staying at the job because you're loyal to your family, not because it's the best employment for you. He is taking advantage of that. He literally will not change the arrangement (to your favor, and against his) unless there's a worse consequence. In other words, you have to be able and willing to leave. Until that comes to pass, he isn't going to change how he uses you for inexpensive help. Find better employment. And take it.

randymarsh

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Re: My boss keeps refusing to give me a raise...
« Reply #18 on: July 09, 2014, 07:18:35 AM »
Get a new job. Employers will pay what you accept. If they laughed in your face because of a raise request, the writing is on the wall. They don't value your contributions as highly as you do. Time to move on when that happens.

Cpa Cat

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Re: My boss keeps refusing to give me a raise...
« Reply #19 on: July 09, 2014, 07:41:21 AM »
I disagree with the other responses that have really keyed in on the father/child relationship here.  Your story would not have been extraordinary or exceptional at all if you had omitted the family relationship entirely.  "I'm an exceptional worker vital to my business but I'm underpaid and can't get a raise.  I would consider leaving, but I like my job and don't want to quit."  That sums up the daily thoughts of a huge segment of the working population.

Sure, except think of what the response would be with the other information.

"My boss laughs at me or becomes angry when I try to discuss a raise/my value."
"I am the only employee who is expected to work late/after hours, and yet am paid less than others."
"My boss has previously lied to me about a future raise."
"I incur unreimbursed business expenses."

If it wasn't his father, the advice would be, "Your boss is toxic and disrespectful. This isn't professional behavior. Find a new job." The fact that it's his father gives us insight into why he's willing to put up with this and why it may be difficult for him to leave.

mm1970

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Re: My boss keeps refusing to give me a raise...
« Reply #20 on: July 09, 2014, 07:58:45 AM »
Does your father also pay other expenses for you? Do you live with him? Does he pay for your car, insurance, phone? That may impact his choice of what your salary is.

Also, is he aware of your budget? He may think you don't need extra money because he paid for your college and you don't have many expenses.

Sometimes when the boss knows too much about your life, he makes decisions based on that.

OP here. He does not pay any expenses at all for me. In fact, I incur business expenses and I am not reimbursed all of the time. I am in my 30's, married and have not lived at home since I was a teenager.
I would do one of two things:
1. Look for a new job
2. Talk to your dad about becoming part owner of the business.

My BIL is a plumber, worked for his dad's plumbing business.  He bought his dad out when he was in his 30's.

Maybe he will sign it over to you, maybe not.  If you want to stay, you are old enough now to own a "cut".  My grandfather owned a business with his brothers.  One of his 3 sons worked the business with him, heavily involved, so he gave his son his 1/3 of his part of the business.  The other two sons would get their "inheritance" later, when he and his wife died. (They are still waiting, his 2nd wife is 95).

Ftao93

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Re: My boss keeps refusing to give me a raise...
« Reply #21 on: July 09, 2014, 08:04:11 AM »
I would probably lean toward leaving, but it never hurts to tell someone how you feel.

"Hey, I know you need to take a week off in order to relax.  I just need some family time too!".  Sounds reasonable, eh?

Maybe talk him into hiring another person to do the additional work.

If he's not into any of that, he's a slavedriver, not a business owner, then he's not worth your time.

FrugalSpendthrift

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Re: My boss keeps refusing to give me a raise...
« Reply #22 on: July 09, 2014, 09:06:34 AM »
My dad expects for me to be in charge when he is gone.
Is this something that you truly want?  Has he put a timeline to it? or is he just going to continue working until he passes away?

We can't really say that leaving is the right thing to do, because the family dynamic makes it a lot more complicated, but if you had another job offer on the table, that would give you a lot of bargaining power and a better perspective on the situation.

Start talking to him about a transition plan, where you buy him out.  If he isn't willing to put a plan together, then you have to really think about your own future and if sticking around is really worth it.  The complications that you will encounter from not having a plan will cause a lot of headaches later on.  If you don't get this ironed out before he passes away, then you will be fighting against everyone else in the will that expects a piece of the business.

I'm the fourth generation running a small family business and some of the transitions have been better than others.


partgypsy

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Re: My boss keeps refusing to give me a raise...
« Reply #23 on: July 09, 2014, 10:07:40 AM »
My little brother worked for my Dad (restaurant). Wasn't paid as well as the cooks, yet had to wear many hats (assistant manager and step in if needed for almost all the positions), with the statement that he was "co-owner" of the business (with implication he may inherit it) -not actually documented anywhere which is worth, about what you think it is. Well at some point my Dad decided to open another business. It lost a lot of money and was forced to sell the original restaurant to pay off debts. Needless to say my brother had no say so in what happened, and not only did not receive anything when the restaurant was sold, lost his job.

My Dad's view is, well he said those things to keep him motivated, he didn't really "promise" him anything, and really he was helping him/doing him a favor because he "gave" him a job. Ironically after he left my brother got a blue collar job doing installation and makes twice as much as when he was working for my Dad.

I wouldn't be surprised if your father feels the same. The only way to get out of that situation, is to get a job elsewhere and make your own way. Sorry if this is harsh.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2014, 10:09:27 AM by partgypsy »

P938LVR

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Re: My boss keeps refusing to give me a raise...
« Reply #24 on: July 09, 2014, 11:52:43 AM »
My little brother worked for my Dad (restaurant). Wasn't paid as well as the cooks, yet had to wear many hats (assistant manager and step in if needed for almost all the positions), with the statement that he was "co-owner" of the business (with implication he may inherit it) -not actually documented anywhere which is worth, about what you think it is. Well at some point my Dad decided to open another business. It lost a lot of money and was forced to sell the original restaurant to pay off debts. Needless to say my brother had no say so in what happened, and not only did not receive anything when the restaurant was sold, lost his job.

My Dad's view is, well he said those things to keep him motivated, he didn't really "promise" him anything, and really he was helping him/doing him a favor because he "gave" him a job. Ironically after he left my brother got a blue collar job doing installation and makes twice as much as when he was working for my Dad.

I wouldn't be surprised if your father feels the same. The only way to get out of that situation, is to get a job elsewhere and make your own way. Sorry if this is harsh.

This is the way that I feel. I work really hard and not only do I still get referred to as the "office help" but I don't paid what I deserve. The business could go under by the time I get to run it and then I will be out all of this money that I should have earned. I really don't want to quit and go somewhere else but I am being taken advantage of and I know it but there is little I can do.

Mr.Macinstache

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Re: My boss keeps refusing to give me a raise...
« Reply #25 on: July 09, 2014, 12:03:09 PM »
If you're not getting the respect you feel you deserve, line up another job. Get a good offer and use it as leverage against your current situation. If you are feeling kind, let him know you're on the hunt in so many words. But don't jeopardize your current job, which sounds unlikely since you wear all those hats. :) Do be a floormat for the old man.

MandyM

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Re: My boss keeps refusing to give me a raise...
« Reply #26 on: July 09, 2014, 12:08:23 PM »
My little brother worked for my Dad (restaurant). Wasn't paid as well as the cooks, yet had to wear many hats (assistant manager and step in if needed for almost all the positions), with the statement that he was "co-owner" of the business (with implication he may inherit it) -not actually documented anywhere which is worth, about what you think it is. Well at some point my Dad decided to open another business. It lost a lot of money and was forced to sell the original restaurant to pay off debts. Needless to say my brother had no say so in what happened, and not only did not receive anything when the restaurant was sold, lost his job.

My Dad's view is, well he said those things to keep him motivated, he didn't really "promise" him anything, and really he was helping him/doing him a favor because he "gave" him a job. Ironically after he left my brother got a blue collar job doing installation and makes twice as much as when he was working for my Dad.

I wouldn't be surprised if your father feels the same. The only way to get out of that situation, is to get a job elsewhere and make your own way. Sorry if this is harsh.

This is the way that I feel. I work really hard and not only do I still get referred to as the "office help" but I don't paid what I deserve. The business could go under by the time I get to run it and then I will be out all of this money that I should have earned. I really don't want to quit and go somewhere else but I am being taken advantage of and I know it but there is little I can do.

Listen to what most everyone here has advised: Go find another job. If you feel the need, talk to your father about goals or whatever. And/or give him a chance to match your new job offer.

Whatever you do, just stop looking for a way to change your father. The only thing you can do is change yourself. If you are worth more money than he is willing to pay, go prove it with another job. Otherwise its just hot air and it sounds a lot like whining.

I don't envy your situation at all. And I hesitated to post because this is somewhat harsh and has already been said several times in the above posts - but it doesn't sound like you are hearing it yet.

(in the unlikely event that you are my step-brother, don't worry, you will get the company in the end...but maybe not until he kicks the bucket. I'm starting to doubt that he will ever retire)

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Re: My boss keeps refusing to give me a raise...
« Reply #27 on: July 09, 2014, 03:23:23 PM »
I have worked in small family businesses over the years and have seen a lot of entitled offspring in my day, and I'm not implying that you are entitled. The "kids" that go out and get a job in fortune 500 companies for several years are more respected when they come back to the family business. I suggest you take advantage of what you have learned and parlay that knowledge into a commensurate position in Corporate American. Learn a lot of shit and come back to your family business if you so desire and wow everyone with your expertise. It's always an advantage to have a well rounded work experience instead of just working for your dad.

Chrissy

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Re: My boss keeps refusing to give me a raise...
« Reply #28 on: July 09, 2014, 03:55:17 PM »
OP, you're being treated badly.  There's no excuse for bad behavior.  Take a risk, and try working somewhere else!  If you don't like that either, you can look for yet another job.  You always have a choice.

iwasjustwondering

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Re: My boss keeps refusing to give me a raise...
« Reply #29 on: July 09, 2014, 04:19:16 PM »
Oh dear.  You definitely have to leave.  It will be hard for you to have a truly good relationship with your father until you do.

socaso

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Re: My boss keeps refusing to give me a raise...
« Reply #30 on: July 09, 2014, 04:32:20 PM »
My little brother worked for my Dad (restaurant). Wasn't paid as well as the cooks, yet had to wear many hats (assistant manager and step in if needed for almost all the positions), with the statement that he was "co-owner" of the business (with implication he may inherit it) -not actually documented anywhere which is worth, about what you think it is. Well at some point my Dad decided to open another business. It lost a lot of money and was forced to sell the original restaurant to pay off debts. Needless to say my brother had no say so in what happened, and not only did not receive anything when the restaurant was sold, lost his job.

My Dad's view is, well he said those things to keep him motivated, he didn't really "promise" him anything, and really he was helping him/doing him a favor because he "gave" him a job. Ironically after he left my brother got a blue collar job doing installation and makes twice as much as when he was working for my Dad.

I wouldn't be surprised if your father feels the same. The only way to get out of that situation, is to get a job elsewhere and make your own way. Sorry if this is harsh.

This is the way that I feel. I work really hard and not only do I still get referred to as the "office help" but I don't paid what I deserve. The business could go under by the time I get to run it and then I will be out all of this money that I should have earned. I really don't want to quit and go somewhere else but I am being taken advantage of and I know it but there is little I can do.
It sounds like you are aware that your father is being disrespectful to you but perhaps you haven't been able to face it until now. He will never change because you are letting him get away with this. You have to leave. If you have any money saved at all you need to just quit and start looking elsewhere because it sounds like this job monopolizes your time and you won't have any energy for job hunting if you don't just leave.

socaso

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Re: My boss keeps refusing to give me a raise...
« Reply #31 on: July 09, 2014, 04:33:08 PM »
Oh! I forgot to say! Call a few existing clients who you have a good relationship with and ask them for references. You are unlikely to get one from your dad.

ShortInSeattle

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Re: My boss keeps refusing to give me a raise...
« Reply #32 on: July 09, 2014, 04:54:38 PM »
If I were in your shoes I'd find a better job, hand in my two week notice, and walk.

Your "boss" is undervaluing you, going back on his word, and laughing in your face. Why would you want to work for someone like that?

Go experience a different job for a while. If your boss wants to make you a counter-offer, tell him you'll consider rejoining the family firm in a few years, if it makes sense for both parties.

Even of you do want to run the company someday, outside experience will be very useful. And I wouldn't pin any hopes on having a beneficial business partnership with someone who treats you disrespectfully.

It's OK to love your Dad as a father and want to have nothing to do with him as an employee.

SIS



okashira

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Re: My boss keeps refusing to give me a raise...
« Reply #33 on: July 09, 2014, 05:19:27 PM »
Op, are you a female ?

P938LVR

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Re: My boss keeps refusing to give me a raise...
« Reply #34 on: July 09, 2014, 05:33:09 PM »
Yes I am a female.

cbgg

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Re: My boss keeps refusing to give me a raise...
« Reply #35 on: July 09, 2014, 05:56:31 PM »
Leave.

Your father doesn't seem to take you seriously.  He agreed to a raise and then renegged?  Take your skills somewhere that they are willing to pay a market rate.  In the end, if you have another offer in hand it may force his hand to finally give you the raise, and you'll be in the position of having options.

P938LVR

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Re: My boss keeps refusing to give me a raise...
« Reply #36 on: July 09, 2014, 07:08:27 PM »
How old are you?  Assuming you are over 22, here is my advice:

Set up a meeting with your father and talk about your future with the company.  Is he thinking you are going to be an owner of this company someday?  Is he thinking you need to try something else and get experience?  If you leave, what is his plan for the company?  If he is thinking you are going to be an owner with the commensurate salary/  profit sharing someday soon, I might ask what he feels he needs to see to make that happen.  If you don't feel like his offer or plan is reasonable, I think you say, "Dad, I have really appreciated the experience I've had here.  I really hope I can return some day.  But for now, I think I need to learn about how other companies do things and build up my experience and see if I can earn more."  And then find a new job. 

+1

Is your Dad your Boss or is there someone in between both of you?
If its your Dad who is underpaying you, is it because you will one day take over a high six or seven figure business? E.G. If so One could think about this as defered income: lower pay now for a million dollar business in 5-10 years.
If its the middle manager is he purposefully trying to get you out of the business so he might run it one day? E.G. Does he think of you as competition for an executive role in the company?

It sounds like you need to talk with you father to get more information about the situation before making a decision one way or another.

I have worked several other places but my dad wanted me to take over the business when he retires so I started working for him. My dad is my boss and there is no middle man. This business is not a million dollar business nor is it likely to be

Gerard

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Re: My boss keeps refusing to give me a raise...
« Reply #37 on: July 09, 2014, 07:27:20 PM »
Right now we're all like the Canadian friend in that Russell Peters routine who says, "Tell your dad to fuck off!"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nn5jlrxcpkI

We might all be right, but we don't know enough about what's keeping you from leaving, or how well you can do elsewhere.

How long have you been working there? How long since you started asking for a raise?
Do you have skills that would be useful elsewhere?
Do you have enough of a stash to carry you through if you can't find work? Or can you do all right on the money your spouse brings in?
Are you part of a tight-knit immigrant community that would treat you like crap because you'd be a disrespectful daughter if you stopped putting up with this shit? Are there other heavy consequences that are holding you back?

frugaliknowit

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Re: My boss keeps refusing to give me a raise...
« Reply #38 on: July 09, 2014, 08:16:43 PM »
Very simple, assuming you are sure you are paid less than market:  Find a better opportunity, then leave graciously and with dignity.  There's no point in bitching  Be in action.  I am in the exact dilemma though not with family.  Employers are taking advantage of the crappy job market.

Chrissy

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Re: My boss keeps refusing to give me a raise...
« Reply #39 on: July 09, 2014, 09:37:18 PM »

I have worked several other places but my dad wanted me to take over the business when he retires so I started working for him. My dad is my boss and there is no middle man. This business is not a million dollar business nor is it likely to be

So, tell him you're happy to come back as the new owner when he's ready to retire... AFTER the legal paperwork is signed, of course.

MandyM

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Re: My boss keeps refusing to give me a raise...
« Reply #40 on: July 10, 2014, 06:16:58 AM »
OP - This thread has over 40 replies, most of which say approximately the same thing. I'm curious as to what you are planning to do. You have responded a few times with tiny glimmers of additional information but not said anything about your next steps.

I think Gerard has some good questions - plus they highlight how we are basically grabbing at straws to provide a different angle. Here's another: So far, your father is painted in a rather unfavorable light, but perhaps he is simply trying to prepare you for the reality of owning a small business. Does your current workload/schedule/pay resemble his before he was taking a week off every month?

BFGirl

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Re: My boss keeps refusing to give me a raise...
« Reply #41 on: July 10, 2014, 06:43:04 AM »
OP - This thread has over 40 replies, most of which say approximately the same thing. I'm curious as to what you are planning to do. You have responded a few times with tiny glimmers of additional information but not said anything about your next steps.

I think Gerard has some good questions - plus they highlight how we are basically grabbing at straws to provide a different angle. Here's another: So far, your father is painted in a rather unfavorable light, but perhaps he is simply trying to prepare you for the reality of owning a small business. Does your current workload/schedule/pay resemble his before he was taking a week off every month?

Since the OP just started this thread less than 2 days ago, I would be surprised if she had made a decision yet.  Her decision is about more than just a job, but also about altering her relationship with her father to some degree.

Snow White

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Re: My boss keeps refusing to give me a raise...
« Reply #42 on: July 10, 2014, 06:51:14 AM »
The only person we can ever change is ourself. We can change our circumstances, what we think, how we interpret what is happening to us but we can never change someone else. Period.  You've ask for more money; he refused. 

Someone said (I can't recall who it was) something like, "when someone tells you who they are; believe them the first time."  The ball is in your court. Your boss has told you who he is and what he values (sounds like it is not you...sorry) and now you have to decide what you value and are willing to accept (or not accept).  But you cannot change him.  He may change in response to your behavior but that is up to him and nothing you can control.

Good luck.

Bank

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Re: My boss keeps refusing to give me a raise...
« Reply #43 on: July 10, 2014, 06:56:48 AM »
Beware of chasing the deferred payout of owning the business.  I've seen many (okay, several) businesses transferred to the next generation where the old folks still maintain veto power over operations and, in some cases, even divert the majority of the cash flows to their own pockets via buyout promissory notes or affiliated companies or trusts.  If you have no options you will have no leverage when that negotiation happens.  The time to establish that leverage is NOW, not when it really counts.

P938LVR

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Re: My boss keeps refusing to give me a raise...
« Reply #44 on: July 10, 2014, 04:27:49 PM »
Well, I talked to him again today about a raise after I brought in another client. He basically told me that I make enough money and he isn't going to pay me more. For those who are wondering I make $500/week in a position that usually requires a college degree. He told me to go somewhere else if I wanted to make more money. I said you don't want me to go somewhere else and he said that he knows he doesn't. I am getting major mixed signals here. He ended the conversation by saying that he refused to talk about it any more. So what should I do? I guess I have no other option than to leave right?

okashira

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Re: My boss keeps refusing to give me a raise...
« Reply #45 on: July 10, 2014, 04:31:05 PM »
Well, I talked to him again today about a raise after I brought in another client. He basically told me that I make enough money and he isn't going to pay me more. For those who are wondering I make $500/week in a position that usually requires a college degree. He told me to go somewhere else if I wanted to make more money. I said you don't want me to go somewhere else and he said that he knows he doesn't. I am getting major mixed signals here. He ended the conversation by saying that he refused to talk about it any more. So what should I do? I guess I have no other option than to leave right?

What exactly do you do?
Is he "traditional," in that have you considered that you being female influences his perception of you? I couldn't help but notice your comment on "office help," and his laughing at your suggestion.

The_Dude

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Re: My boss keeps refusing to give me a raise...
« Reply #46 on: July 10, 2014, 04:41:40 PM »
As others have said, yes leave!

If you are worth more then go make more working for someone else.  If you can't find another job that pays more and also offers any other intangible benefits that you want then be prepared to never get that raise. 

No offense but your situation reminds me of The Millionaire Next Door.  Not that your parents provide you a lavish lifestyle but just because you are still dependent on your Dad and are in your 30's and the associated impact on happiness being dependent on your parents financially brings. 

gimp

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Re: My boss keeps refusing to give me a raise...
« Reply #47 on: July 10, 2014, 04:47:08 PM »
500/week full time is miserly. Come on. Stop pussyfooting it. You know what you need to do, you just need to get your balls out of your dad's purse and do it.

LukeS

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Re: My boss keeps refusing to give me a raise...
« Reply #48 on: July 10, 2014, 05:07:57 PM »
Says he will give you a raise doesn't follow through
Says he will pass the business on to you ____________

___


The only person we can ever change is ourself. We can change our circumstances, what we think, how we interpret what is happening to us but we can never change someone else. Period.
....
Nice 

msilenus

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Re: My boss keeps refusing to give me a raise...
« Reply #49 on: July 10, 2014, 05:27:45 PM »
500/week full time is miserly. Come on. Stop pussyfooting it. You know what you need to do, you just need to get your balls out of your dad's purse and do it.

It's 500/week for more than full time.  If she's working 50, then she's making about the same as a Starbucks barista with 40 regular hours and 10 of time-and-a-half.  (Just googled it --they make about $9/hr.)

This is just silly.