Emergency Food Storage (Prepper), Buckets? Freeze Dried? Canned?

[shadowmoss]

Some of the folks in my RV park are talking about getting some of the 72 hour food storage buckets.  Specifically the ones advertised on Fox from 4Patriots.  I'm not so rigged into what brand, more on if anyone has any suggestions or tricks?  I occasionally watch prepper videos on YouTube, and at one time I was a backpacker.  As such I see Thrive brand freeze dried food used/advertised, and I know Mountain House is good but expensive.

I feel that the packets of Idahoan instant mashed potatoes in various flavors are cheaper than the ones supplied in   the prepacked 72 hour buckets, and that a lot of the buckets with 25 year shelf life have mostly carbohydrates that are cheaper to buy in the grocery/Walmart versions.  I'm almost 70, so I'm more interested in building a shelf stable inventory of items to rotate through than I am in preparing for some disaster 15 years from now. 

What are your suggestions for long(er) life shelf stable solutions to have for those times someone might be logistically far from a grocery or need to get by for a few weeks at a time (or months) with what is on hand?

[shadowmoss]

Replying to my own post to say:

I looked at Thrive freeze dried beef crumbles and it is a bit over $40 for what reconstitutes as around 1.5# of meat.  It has 7 half cup servings in the Pantry can, and 2.5 cups with water makes 1# of hamburger.

Keystone canned ground beef, 14oz for around $6.  This is something I saw for the first time today on a prepper video.

Meat is something I have a difficult time keeping.  I do keep canned chicken and tuna and salmon.  Canned pork was an experiment that went well recently so I'll get more of that.  I have some canned corned beef hash to try, also discovered on the same prepper video.

My personal issue with the cans of freeze dried food such as the Thrive brand is that living alone I have a difficult time getting through the can once it is opened.  The 25 year shelf life goes down to weeks/months once the larger can is opened.

[uniwelder]

Do you live in the same RV park full time or do you travel around to various parts of the country?  Also, do you have a permanent home or is your RV it? 

If you live in the same RV park as your only home, I would more concerned about the impermanence of that situation.  You're reliant on the utilities provided by that site.  If there's a disaster, do you have somewhere safe to go-- family, friends, etc?  As for food storage, you could have a decent size pantry and just rotate through items so everything stays relatively fresh.

edited to add--- Along the same train of thought, do you keep 20+ gallons of gasoline (with stabilizer added) and a full tank in your RV at all times?  If things go awry, you'll likely need the gas more than your emergency food supply.

[shadowmoss]

I do have my emergency plan pretty much hammered out.  I own 2 (30yo) Class A motor homes, one in a summer spot and one in a winter spot, both in RV parks.  I keep water in my fresh water tanks.  It amazes me that some don't.  We lose water supply temporarily more than we lose electricity.  One of my places has a working generator on board.  I move myself and pets and items between the two, which needs some (a lot) of tweaking. 

This is just one of the areas I'm looking at, inspired right now by a neighbor saying he was ready to just spring for the 4Patriots 72 hour bucket of emergency food.  I know for a fact that I can get more food, that tastes better, by looking around.  Another friend mentioned that he had tried the 4Patriots food and didn't particularly like it.  He has stashed some Mountain House meals at his house.  He is also a former backpacker, so probably is spoiled by eating Mountain House on the trail.

I tend to look at various YouTube videos on all manner of topics.  I like to be challenged in my opinions and ideas.  I am not a prepper, but I have learned things from those videos on how to live frugally and being more prepared.  My emergency will more likely be wildfire and needing to evacuate.  I have a few more T's to cross to be able to turn the key and go from here.  I'm always trying to find new viewpoints to not get 10 miles down the road and go 'oh, crap, I should have...'.

[Villanelle]

You say you aren't a prepper, so what scenario are you imagining where you can't get to food for weeks?  Or months?  Figuring that out helps figure out a plan.  And would you have safe water?  I can't imagine your freshwater tanks would last weeks or months.  So what are you adding to those potato flakes, and how are you staying safely hydrated for weeks? 

[uniwelder]

I do have my emergency plan pretty much hammered out.  I own 2 (30yo) Class A motor homes, one in a summer spot and one in a winter spot, both in RV parks.  I keep water in my fresh water tanks.  It amazes me that some don't.  We lose water supply temporarily more than we lose electricity.  One of my places has a working generator on board.  I move myself and pets and items between the two, which needs some (a lot) of tweaking. 
.....
I tend to look at various YouTube videos on all manner of topics.  I like to be challenged in my opinions and ideas.  I am not a prepper, but I have learned things from those videos on how to live frugally and being more prepared.  My emergency will more likely be wildfire and needing to evacuate.  I have a few more T's to cross to be able to turn the key and go from here.  I'm always trying to find new viewpoints to not get 10 miles down the road and go 'oh, crap, I should have...'.

It sounds like the top priorities need to be clean water access and mobility.  Have you ever seen these?--- https://www.source.co/hydropanel/  A $3,000 panel setup can provide the water necessary for you to live.  Also, make sure your RV is properly maintained (along with the extra fuel storage) so you can leave with short notice.

[mistymoney]

stocking up on large quantities of lentils, beans, nuts, and dried fruit should be relatively cheap.

They last a long time!

then the usual canned food is shelf stable for a very long time. Aside from the water situation which has been addressed, I'm not sure why special "prepper" food is needed?

In the not-to-distant past, weren't a lot of cultures prepping for winter every year? I'd do what they did.

[Jakestersquat]

You say you aren't a prepper, so what scenario are you imagining where you can't get to food for weeks?  Or months?  Figuring that out helps figure out a plan.  And would you have safe water?  I can't imagine your freshwater tanks would last weeks or months.  So what are you adding to those potato flakes, and how are you staying safely hydrated for weeks?

I agree with this. Personally I think having a 72 hour kit is plenty. That could get you through the. Say minority of emergencies. Many real world experiences have shown that having absolutely nothing to eat for weeks or months is very rare indeed. Sure you may get shortages of “X” or “Y” but emergency supplies will be on the way. That being said we do have quite a bit of food stored up but in truth it is just more of the regular food we eat anyway. We have a number is stews and other single pan meals made of mostly canned veggies and meat. This helps us to keep it rotated and from spoiling because it’s meals the family and I eat on a near weekly basis. I think this would help for morale in a semi extended emergency because our diet is staying relatively the same and it having to go on “survival” food.

[Catbert]

Maybe I'm missing something, but is a 72-hour bucket what it sounds like?  Enough dried food for 3 days?  Or is the intent of a 72-hour bucket's seller that you would buy 10 of them to cover 30 days?   Or that you could grab a bucket or two and hide out in the case of a zombie apocalypse?  I guess I don't get it.

Personally for 3 days or even 30 I'd just have enough of regular food that I could easily cycle through in normal times.  For me that would be mostly canned.  For 3 days I wouldn't be concerned that the meals were "balanced", just filling. 

[FlytilFIRE]

I live in Florida. I've said for YEARS that people should be prepared for a month of self-sufficiency. My example is a Cat 5 hurricane that runs up the east coast of Florida, taking out 6-8 major cities within hours. Anyone who thinks the U.S. government is prepared for a disaster of that scale is, frankly, deluded. So, assuming you survive, you MIGHT get evacuated (so where do you go?). But if your home survives, and you want to protect it from thieves and further weather damage, you must be prepared to be self sufficient for an extended period of time. I'd guess there would be some form of relief within a month. But then again, when Katrina hit New Orleans, the response was pathetic. I might be overly optimistic.

There's nothing worse than thinking "I wish I'd...."

[seattlecyclone]

I'll agree with others saying that you shouldn't need special food for this purpose. Just keep your pantry decently full of stuff you use anyway and you should be fine. We shop at Costco so just by virtue of their large-sized packages we have lots of calories on hand. The 25 lb bag of flour currently sitting in my basement contains 41,000 calories all on its own, enough to feed our family of four for the better part of a week. We have similar quantities of rice and pasta as well. If a long-term emergency happened we'd run out of fruits and veggies relatively fast and would be eating a lot of carbs with olive oil, plus cans of beans and tomato products, but we'd survive.

[shadowmoss]

I guess using the term prepper is misleading.  The thing that got me thinking about this today was the discussion about the 72hr bucket of survival food, and a neighbor saying he might get one because he likes the idea of having some food put back.  Personal circumstances can sometimes make a need for something along the lines of those buckets of food.  A couple of people in this particular park don't leave the area.  Like, at all.  One guy doesn't ever leave the park.  He buys online what he needs, including groceries.  The one I was talking to doesn't go further than 5 miles or so away from home.  There are some restaurants and a Walmart within that distance.  If we need to evacuate he says he will toss his clothes into the truck and grab his wallet and go.  I think he is thinking grabbing a bucket of food would be good also, rather than rooting around his pantry.

I began to think in more depth what it is that these 'buckets of survival food' are really selling.  I went to Amazon to price out what is included and read reviews.  What I have seen all along (this isn't a new interest) is that the meals included are mostly carbs, noodles and rice for bulk.  Instant drink mixes. Few veggies or Meat.  Quick bread mixes in some of the larger buckets.  These things are easily bought at Walmart for much less money.  I read reviews and more than one said first of all, they hadn't even opened the bucket to check it out but had full faith that if it was needed it would be fine.  The second thing that stood out was more than one reviewer who did open the bucket had at least one packet that opened up and spilled all over the rest of the contents.  This also meant that 6 meals of the allotted food was just gone.  So, I'm thinking that what is being sold is actually the idea of portability, just grab and go, and a (false?) sense of being prepared for some distant and undefined emergency.  Easy meals, just heat water.  Use it if camping as well.

I'm looking to do better.  I'm changing the way I eat.  Blood results haven't been good this year.  Financially I need to cut down on how much I eat out.  Carbs are cheap and easy to fix.  I haven't cooked much in the past few, uh, decades and can no longer rely on the cheap and easy carb meals.  I end up throwing out way too much food if I try to keep fresh food around.  So, I'm buying into the easy meals, just add water idea.  I'm looking for portability as well with canned meat (no refridgeration) and easy storage.

Basically, I want to replicate, for my neighbors as well as myself, the ideas that the buckets of survival food promise but actually have good food with meat and vegetables, and not just cheap carb meals that I've paid many times the cost for just because they have that '25 year shelf life'.

[shadowmoss]

To respond to a couple of replies here, I live alone and have gone the 25# of flour route.  I don't cook enough to handle that, and I live in an RV so storage is an issue.  As I mentioned, the portability of the buckets is a big selling point to the general public, and I need some of that.  I am a member of Costco, but I have stopped buying much food there as it takes me a long time to go through a case of anything.  If I start cooking more I will go back to getting what I will eat before the expiration dates catch up to me.  One of my personal issues with the packaged survival food is that usually there are more than one serving per packet.  While they last 25 years while sealed, once opened they tend to go stale or absorb moisture within a few days/weeks.  The cans of freeze dried food such as Thrive are a problem for me for that reason.  I tried that at one point several years ago.  Tomato powder especially goes brick hard almost immediately upon being exposed to air.

Hurricanes are one of the disasters that I think of when a larger stash of food is needed.  Thinking along those lines is also why my house(s) have wheels and  I am set up to live out of my car if necessary.  I have a butane buner, a 12V fridge, a portable power station and 200W of solar panels.  Thinking about survival food isn't an isolated part of my plans.  I'm opening the discussion to see how others may have solved some of the problems or pick up any tricks.  I wouldn't have realized that canned corned beef hash or ground beef existed if I hadn't seen it on the preper video.

[uniwelder]

If you want to incorporate the idea of a 'grab and go' food bucket, I would just make it yourself.  It does seem silly to buy some prefilled bucket with expensive and questionable food items.  Go to the store and stock up on packaged, one pot, instant options.  Things that you might not necessary eat all the time regularly, but wouldn't be opposed to eating for a few weeks if you had to.  This website popped up with a quick search-- https://happiestoutdoors.ca/grocery-store-backpacking-meals/  and contains what I think would be a reasonable stash. 

Don't think of it as needing to stay good for 25 years, though.  I would pile everything into your bucket, then once a year, empty (maybe all of it, maybe half or a third of it, sorted by expiration date) and refill with new food.  Whatever came out of the bucket goes into your cabinets and gets used in the next couple of months.  This should be a pretty manageable method I think. 

I wouldn't get too hung up on finding beef.  Your bucket is only meant for emergencies, so eating canned chicken, tuna, salmon, sardines, etc, shouldn't be much of a burden compared to other concerns that an emergency situation would bring.  Although, if you are interested in home canning (probably not an option for you), canning meat in mason jars is definitely a thing, though I've never tasted it.

[sonofsven]

Emergency preparedness is something I think about (and practice) as well. I keep a supply of food, water, and gasoline on hand, as well as a battery powered radio, lanterns, candles, and firewood. I rotate through my canned food stock every few years; I end up tossing most of it as it reaches years and years past the "best by" date, and I keep some dry food, and have pretty well stocked freezer(s), and a small generator.

I live by a water source, but would have to boil/filter. I keep 10 gallons in two jugs.

Remember, if you have a standard hot water tank in your home there's approx 50 gallons in there waiting to be used if your water is shut off.

I can see why, living in an RV, you would be interested in something more portable.

One thing, I don't love storing in round buckets with lids for a small space, you can fit more in square or rectangular bins for the same footprint as a bucket, so look for non round containers.

 And also when I read anything is "for patriots" my bs meter goes off.  The whole "patriot" thing seems like it's attracting lots of scammers looking for easy marks based on fear. That being said, it's definitely worth thinking about and planning to be prepared.

They might be fine, but I bet you could get your own bins and fill it with what you want for less $$.
 
Costco has lots of good choices, from cases of ramen, Tasty Bites (Indian food, you place the whole packet in boiling water for a few minutes), big bags of nuts, beef jerky, canned fruits, soups, and chili. I guess with that diet you better throw in a case of TP, also. And don't forget a case of spam!

Throw in a can opener and a fancy water filter and you should be good for awhile.

You mentioned wild fires, and one thing I noticed watching video of the mass exodus from the Camp fire in CA was that the roads leading away from the fire were completely jammed. Many cars caught on fire in the traffic jams and the people had to escape to another vehicle, best case scenario.

[LD_TAndK]

I keep a couple extra 4 pound jars of peanut butter and a few boxes of ritz crackers. Low volume and great calories per ounce, no stove required. The theory being if I have to leave home without a vehicle it's an easy way to throw 12,000 calories in a backpack for only 5 pounds of weight.

[shadowmoss]

The Patriots gig and debunking/understanding their marketing is what brought on this round of interest for me.  Back when they were advertising hard their power station I tried to decipher what they were selling.  The ad made it seem as if you could run your entire house on a small power station that was kept in a closet.  I was researching solar systems for my RV at the time and tried to look at their specifications.  I couldn't find any actual ratings on the battery in their product.  Just from the size I could tell it was at most a 200AH battery and would run the fridge for maybe an hour?  That is, if the inverter was large enough to handle it, which it probably wasn't.  When my neighbor started telling me I should get one of the 72 hour buckets that was being advertised by them on Fox news I was motivated to look into things again.

The idea of having an easy to access and cook stash of food is very attractive.  Blizzards, hurricanes, wildfires and such make the need very obvious.  It is the execution that becomes an issue.  Just send them money and stash the bucket in a closet and feel like one is prepared is a very motivating thing.  The devil is in the details.  Those details are what I'm working on.

I live in Arizona.  The tap water here is potable, but not very drinkable in the areas where I live.  Luckily when it doesn't freeze much or at all it is possible put up water kiosks where I can bring my gallon jugs and get filtered drinking water.  In Quartzsite there is still a machine where I can get it for $.25/gal or $1 for 5 gal.  Up here in the summer spot it has gone to $.50.  I keep at least 2 gal of drinking water and usually more.  I have a couple of backpacking water filters and one that promises to filter 'everything' out of the water.  I used them when I lived in Honduras for a few years.

Personally, I have horrible eating habits.  I keep cheap carbs around the motor home that i can microwave quickly, and depend on eating out to get vegetables and meats.  This has caught up to me.  I am a tenth of a point from actual diabetes.  Financially my eating out is the place that I want to cut down on.  So, I'm trying to address both issues at the same time.  I want to find cheap(er) meat and vegetable meals that I can keep on hand that I can make healthy meals from.  I throw out so much food if I try to go fresh as I just don't cook much.  It is a process for me.

[uniwelder]

I think everyone here has been giving you really good advice, but it sounds like you want some magic.  Regarding your diet, I think it's best to decouple your day to day diet from a 2 week emergency survival stash.  It's kind of like those signs you see hanging in mechanic's shops that read "pick 2-- cheap, fast, or good".  You want low cost, ready to go meals that taste great and are also cheap.

Also, check out those hydropanels!  They are very real and gaining traction.  Ultimately, living in the desert is not a great idea if you're concerned about emergency planning, but you do have options to move elsewhere.  I personally would never live someplace that I would be worried about having a regular supply of water.

edited to add--- I first heard about hydropanels from this podcast--- https://www.marketplace.org/shows/marketplace-tech/could-hydropanels-help-solve-the-water-crisis/

[LifeHappens]

I have never used these products personally, but am intrigued by a lot of what Harmony House Foods sells: https://www.harmonyhousefoods.com/ You can get freeze dried veggies, beans, fruit and plant-based meat substitutes for pretty reasonable prices. They also sell soup mixes which look quite quick and easy to prepare. They might help you get over the cooking inertia you are experiencing.

[brandon1827]

PTF

I have a few buckets of the 25-year shelf life emergency food that someone got me as a gift...I've never opened it so I have no idea on taste, ease of prep, etc.

[shadowmoss]

I am more looking for other people's experiences with products and food planning.  I had forgotten that Harmony House has smaller containers of dehydrated and freeze dried veggies and beans.  I'll probably put in an order.

As for the issues with living in a desert, my summer place has water and as mentioned, my homes have wheels.  If/when a lack of resources becomes an issue I'll move.  I like it out here, though, and I'm living about as lightly as possible as far as water and other resources are concerned.

I'm putting the survival food issue and my personal diet in the same basket (bucket?) because I am wanting to live almost like I'm using that type of food.  In both cases the reliance on cheap carbs is a bad thing, I think.  To answer an earlier question, these buckets also come in 1 months, 3 months, and a year lots.  My neighbor actually talked about how he would like to get.the 90 day supply so he didn't have to go into town to get groceries as often.  At this point the lack of meat, fruit and veggies would become an issue.

I am just wondering if anyone else has solved this problem or how it was approached.  Also to open a discussion, but maybe this isn't the right crowd.

[uniwelder]

I'm putting the survival food issue and my personal diet in the same basket (bucket?) because I am wanting to live almost like I'm using that type of food. 
...
Also to open a discussion, but maybe this isn't the right crowd.

Why do you want to live that way?  Is it because you live alone and don't want to put effort into meal prep?  If you say your current diet isn't that great and you want to improve on it, permanently moving to emergency meal foodstuffs doesn't sound like the way to go.  No matter how high quality the freeze dried or dehydrated veggies might be, I can't imagine they're cheaper or better for you than conventional alternatives.  Its most likely your emergency food bucket will never be used in your lifetime, so it might make more sense to steer the conversation away from that idea, since the food solution you're looking for is for 99.9% of your proposed diet. 

Not at all what you're asking for, but here's an idea...  Are any of your neighbors (or you) interested in doing 1x week shared meals?  Get 5 people together and each person cooks 1 large meal on alternating days.  It really cuts down on the burden of cooking and creates lots of variety in your diet.  If you're all living in a RV park, I assume you're pretty close with your neighbors anyway.

[Just Joe]

Personally, I have horrible eating habits.  I keep cheap carbs around the motor home that i can microwave quickly, and depend on eating out to get vegetables and meats.  This has caught up to me.  I am a tenth of a point from actual diabetes.  Financially my eating out is the place that I want to cut down on.  So, I'm trying to address both issues at the same time.  I want to find cheap(er) meat and vegetable meals that I can keep on hand that I can make healthy meals from.  I throw out so much food if I try to go fresh as I just don't cook much.  It is a process for me.

There is a recipe website called "Budget Bytes" that might be a good option for you. All the ingredients are priced, seem to be healthy and easy. Get a stack of index cards. Make a recipe, if you like it, write out on the index card. Put it in an index card box. Try another recipe. Repeat often. Curate a dozen or two recipes and rotate them.

[Just Joe]

For emergencies, buy MREs and backpack freeze dried foods. Rotate them in and out like someone said upthread.

Most of the things I've seen advertised on FoxNews is heavy on the marketing, light on value to the consumer. Also, a bucket is not very space efficient, especially in an RV. 

[Dicey]

Another Forumite turned me on to a YouTuber called Prepper Princess. She's no longer a "prepper" and one of her videos explains why. It's good. I'll try to find it when I have a moment.

I still follow her, because she's frugal as hell.

[shadowmoss]

Dicey, I've seen some of her stuff.  I'll look into it again.  Here is the one I ended up subscribing to, although she is a bit too prepper for me:  https://youtu.be/yzE-L1GsnbA?feature= share   Wicked Prepared

I like her ideas for making up meals.  Basically, puts together the canned (mostly) and dehydrated items needed to make a meal into a bag so that when the meal is needed all she has to do is grab the bag.  He stuff is a bit more healthy than the buckets but some of the meals seem to have too many ingredients.  She also does meals in a jar, using the Thrive freeze dried food.  I'm not so inspired by that for some reason.  Another hook she has is putting together 'MRE' type meals, but those are carb heavy, mostly protein bars and candy.

As an aside, does anyone have any ideas on places to order actual MREs and any guidance on the versions of MREs?  Pros?  Cons?

[Villanelle]

The thing is that for what most people consider healthy eating, you want nearly the opposite of what you want for survival food.  Survival food should be incredibly calorically dense. You want to fit as many calories as possible into as small a space as possible.  You also want it to last an exceptionally long time, which generally means at least some level of preservatives and salt. 

You mentioned eating healthy and eating less, so I'm guessing you want "better" foods and to lose weight. That means fresh veggies and the *least* calorically dense options you can find.  IOW, fill up on fresh spinach and stop eating, rather than filling up on cake, for example.  Freeze-dried veggies you mention are kinda the worst of both worlds.  They aren't an efficient use of space for your prepper needs, and they aren't as nutritious as fresh (nor are they as pleasant to actually eat).  The only upside I can see is that you don't have to go to the store as often, I guess.

That's part of why people are suggesting decoupling the two. They have opposing priorities.  Your survival food is peanut butter and beef jerky.  Your healthy food is a salad, or for more shelf-stable options, perhaps some [lower sodium] canned fruits and veggies.  You could probably fit a week's work of that food in 2 moderate-sized boxes.  You could fit a month's worth of calories in the same boxes if "survive during a massive, life-altering catastrophe" is the goal.   

Do you have any space around the RV where you could plant a small vegetable garden?  it's still not clear to me what exactly you are trying to accomplish with all this that couldn't be accomplished by having a couple of boxes of emergency food and then shopping and eating regular meals separate from that.  But if part of it is not wanting to have to go to the store as often, growing your own might help.