Mustachian Gear for the Great Outdoors

[CNM]

I don't know if this is true of anyone else, but every time I've bought a camping eating utensil or plateware, I've lost one, so I agree...either grab one from your drawer or hoard a couple from your local takeout spot and reuse those until you lose 'em.

While I have a complete mess kit, if I decide to do the stove thing, one medium-sized pot does the trick.  It is sort of shaped like an oversized travel mug with a lid, so tall but somewhat narrow.

This suffices to make a one-pot meal and a hot drink which is really all I need.  I don't need 3 different pots and plates, especially if I'm cooking for just me or me + spouse.
Less is more sometimes.

[Askel]

MMM himself was the subject of an interview recently about tiny details exaggeration syndrome and outdoor gear. Good reading, especially before getting sucked into an REI:

https://www.outsideonline.com/culture/active-families/embrace-your-inner-dirtbag/

It's something I battle with all the time. Like right now I really want a kayak with a skeg, because those stupid foot controlled rudders? I can't even. :D 

Whenever I get too caught up in that, it's time to take a step back and watch some Beau Miles videos. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-Zyud8xh2c
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysgH_rkfGSE

Maybe you don't have to go to quite those lengths, but he makes some good points on how you don't need to travel far from home or buy a bunch of fancy gear to have a grand adventure. 

Moxie Marlinspike is also a good inspiration. He clearly did not spend a lot of time agonizing over which sailboat would be the best for a Caribbean adventure:



He also has some great writing on this topic: 

https://moxie.org/2012/11/27/the-worst.html


But it's also possible I may take this dirtbag thing too far. I've had several things yelled at me out passing car windows on bicycle tours that lead me to believe the yeller thinks I'm homeless. 

"GET A JOB ASSHOLE!" 

[Radagast]

Regarding fuel for the can stove, is there a reason I'd want to use denatured alcohol as opposed to isopropyl? I had never heard of denatured alcohol before, and some quick research has me thinking that they are mostly the same? I assume it would be fine to use either, but presumably one is cheaper and/or has more versatility as a disinfectant?

I haven't actually bought a Camelbak yet, and I am now seriously reconsidering the purchase. When you say you attach a Sawyer filter directly to the bottle, what kind of filter do you mean? Is it the sort that filters the water as you drink it, or do you pump water through it to purify it as the bottle is being filled? I've never used a filter before so I'm still rather unclear on the different types and how they function.

Isopropyl does not burn as hot and provides less heat per weight and volume. It reportedly also leaves a sticky residue. Denatured alcohol is ethanol which has been made to taste terrible and often mixed with methanol so you go blind and die if you drink it, allowing it so be sold legally and cheaply everywhere, especially at hardware or home improvement stores. Pure ethanol would be ideal, as I recall it provides more heat than methanol does. But hard to find.

The sawyer filter (thought you got that) can be used directly on the sawyer pouches which is a fine method. You can also thread it onto the bottle on the other end, and squeeze the filter bag directly into the bottle for additional clean water. I am talking about the Sawyer squeeze and mini. However you made need to make an additional adapter to connect directly to the bottle and filter at the same time (not completely familiar with the current Sawyer lineup). But that doesn't make sense. A long time ago I glued two bottle caps together to make a female-female adapter and I can't remember why.

[Radagast]

Utensils: I found disposable bamboo (or wood) chopsticks to be perfect. Lightweight, durable, ok to lose. Chopsticks are versatile: you can whisk, stir, stab, grab, and to some extent shovel with them. You can also strip the bark from dry twigs to make field chopsticks if you deliberately or accidentally left your utensil at home, which I have done several times. I sometimes supplement with a small titanium spoon I got for my birthday.

Footwear: While first recommending an old pair of shoes with reasonable grip, otherwise put me very much in the light weight trail runner camp. Specifically the lightest thinnest pair of Altra trail runners, or something with similar toe space. I find I get sore feet and blisters in big thick waterproof shoes, and even worse they make me stumble and be unable to react to the terrain, especially off-trail.

[Valley of Plenty]

But it's also possible I may take this dirtbag thing too far. I've had several things yelled at me out passing car windows on bicycle tours that lead me to believe the yeller thinks I'm homeless. 

"GET A JOB ASSHOLE!"

Being FI and mistaken for a homeless person is stealth wealth at its finest!

[Valley of Plenty]

The sawyer filter (thought you got that) can be used directly on the sawyer pouches which is a fine method. You can also thread it onto the bottle on the other end, and squeeze the filter bag directly into the bottle for additional clean water. I am talking about the Sawyer squeeze and mini. However you made need to make an additional adapter to connect directly to the bottle and filter at the same time (not completely familiar with the current Sawyer lineup). But that doesn't make sense. A long time ago I glued two bottle caps together to make a female-female adapter and I can't remember why.

I did some research and it looks like both the sawyer squeeze and sawyer mini can be threaded directly onto most disposable bottles to purify the water as you drink it, or you could use the bag to filter clean water directly into the bottle. I'm probably going to go with the Sawyer Mini, since it seems to have the same functionality as the larger version with a slightly lower price.

[Radagast]

The sawyer filter (thought you got that) can be used directly on the sawyer pouches which is a fine method. You can also thread it onto the bottle on the other end, and squeeze the filter bag directly into the bottle for additional clean water. I am talking about the Sawyer squeeze and mini. However you made need to make an additional adapter to connect directly to the bottle and filter at the same time (not completely familiar with the current Sawyer lineup). But that doesn't make sense. A long time ago I glued two bottle caps together to make a female-female adapter and I can't remember why.

I did some research and it looks like both the sawyer squeeze and sawyer mini can be threaded directly onto most disposable bottles to purify the water as you drink it, or you could use the bag to filter clean water directly into the bottle. I'm probably going to go with the Sawyer Mini, since it seems to have the same functionality as the larger version with a slightly lower price.

+1 , it is also lighter. That filter is a backpacking best practice.

[Radagast]

MMM himself was the subject of an interview recently about tiny details exaggeration syndrome and outdoor gear. Good reading, especially before getting sucked into an REI:

https://www.outsideonline.com/culture/active-families/embrace-your-inner-dirtbag/

It's something I battle with all the time. Like right now I really want a kayak with a skeg, because those stupid foot controlled rudders? I can't even. :D 

Whenever I get too caught up in that, it's time to take a step back and watch some Beau Miles videos. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-Zyud8xh2c
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysgH_rkfGSE

Maybe you don't have to go to quite those lengths, but he makes some good points on how you don't need to travel far from home or buy a bunch of fancy gear to have a grand adventure. 

Moxie Marlinspike is also a good inspiration. He clearly did not spend a lot of time agonizing over which sailboat would be the best for a Caribbean adventure:



He also has some great writing on this topic: 

https://moxie.org/2012/11/27/the-worst.html


But it's also possible I may take this dirtbag thing too far. I've had several things yelled at me out passing car windows on bicycle tours that lead me to believe the yeller thinks I'm homeless. 

"GET A JOB ASSHOLE!"

Wow great articles! I didn't know about Moxie or that MMM interview.

[honeybbq]

OK I think I am caught up before my next reply.

There's a couple issues with the water. Make sure you're not confounding a water reservoir/storage system with a purification system.

I use a camelback reservoir and I love it. I like not having to reach or do anything special to get my water. A tube 3 inches from my mouth is great. They are easy to refill and hold as little or as much as you want. Sometimes in my hikes you may need to go 10+ miles without a water source. I like being able to ergonomically carry 3 liters if I want.

Iodine, while effective, has some drawbacks including time to sterilize and after taste. In my opinion, getting a different purification system is really important.
I have one of these:
https://www.rei.com/product/116364/katadyn-befree-10-l-water-filter-bottle-338-fl-oz
and one of these:
https://www.rei.com/product/866422/platypus-gravityworks-water-filter-system-4-liter

The first I use for trail running and day hikes so I can quickly refill my water reservoir. The later I use backpacking for cooking meals and such (as well as refilling reservoir). They are both light and function *really* well. 

A few other things I saw mentioned:
I have an extra long titanium spork similar to this one:
https://www.rei.com/product/782241/sea-to-summit-alpha-light-spoon-long

As far as meals and stoves, I think it depends how you'd like to eat. If you like making your own backpacking meals (in a bag) or purchasing dehydrated meals, you really only need boiled water. For that, you cannot beat a jet boil.
https://www.rei.com/product/127968/jetboil-flash-cooking-system

If you like cooking your own meals from items in your backpack(eg boil pasta and add sauce, etc) then a cooking pot/stove system may be preferable. I have a 15 year old MSR pocket rocket that still works wonderfully.

Don't forget that someone in your party should carry a satellite communicator for emergencies. Preferably to have 2 individuals with one. I have a Garmin inReach.
https://www.rei.com/product/140110/garmin-inreach-mini

Last, I think this is too late though, but I also hike in trail runners. La Sportivas.

[roomtempmayo]

I did some research and it looks like both the sawyer squeeze and sawyer mini can be threaded directly onto most disposable bottles to purify the water as you drink it, or you could use the bag to filter clean water directly into the bottle. I'm probably going to go with the Sawyer Mini, since it seems to have the same functionality as the larger version with a slightly lower price.

I think the Squeeze is, at best, a one person option for just scraping by.  It's not going to flow freely for very long unless you're filling from nothing but crystal alpine lakes.  You're going to find yourself sucking until you're blue in the face if you want to use it as a primary filtration source.

The Mini can be hacked into a single or double gravity bag setup (Google/YouTube for directions).  It's a good piece of gear.

If you're going out with a group, a gravity bag setup is worth it.  Bigger bags are worthwhile and don't weigh much more.  I have the biggest Sawyer one, but MSR makes an even bigger one (4 gallons?) that gets great reviews and was always out of stock when I checked.

All of these gravity filtration options are lightyears better than what we used even 20 years ago.  I will never pump another water bottle again.

I'll just also add to the numerous comments above that most of this stuff is rentable, and you should rent as much different stuff as possible before buying in order to know what you want.  Outdoor softgoods depreciate like a rock, so buying the wrong thing and then dumping it on eBay is an expensive learning experience.  Far better to pay a bit to try different stuff until you know exactly what you want so you can buy once/cry once.

[Radagast]

I did some research and it looks like both the sawyer squeeze and sawyer mini can be threaded directly onto most disposable bottles to purify the water as you drink it, or you could use the bag to filter clean water directly into the bottle. I'm probably going to go with the Sawyer Mini, since it seems to have the same functionality as the larger version with a slightly lower price.

I think the Squeeze is, at best, a one person option for just scraping by.  It's not going to flow freely for very long unless you're filling from nothing but crystal alpine lakes.  You're going to find yourself sucking until you're blue in the face if you want to use it as a primary filtration source.

The Mini can be hacked into a single or double gravity bag setup (Google/YouTube for directions).  It's a good piece of gear.

If you're going out with a group, a gravity bag setup is worth it.  Bigger bags are worthwhile and don't weigh much more.  I have the biggest Sawyer one, but MSR makes an even bigger one (4 gallons?) that gets great reviews and was always out of stock when I checked.

All of these gravity filtration options are lightyears better than what we used even 20 years ago.  I will never pump another water bottle again.

(replying to both)
I use the Squeeze as my main filter, I bought it about a month before the mini came out else I'd have the mini. I have no problem squeezing through 2-10 liters at a time, 10 liters being for when I was headed toward a dry camp far from any water source for a night or two. Not a ton of fun, but not that bad. I've never used it as a gravity setup or squeezed directly into my mouth, I think those would be less common. I just roll the bag up to squeeze it into my bottles.

I note that the mini only has a threaded connection on one end, which is required for the squeeze bag. I thread one end of mine to the sawyer bag and the other to the bottle, which wouldn't work with the mini. Though I saw it fits nicely in the "sport top" smartwater bottle ends, which I recommend anyway. A nice way around that would be to make a small hole in a bottle cap, rough up and clean the cap and filter, and epoxy (JB weld, what have you) them together. That way you could connect to a hose, and also directly to a bottle. The extra nice thing about that method is that you would not be constrained to the smartwater/2L/sawyer cap, you could glue on a gatorade cap, or the cap of the cheapest lightest bottles in the store, or whatever bottle yuou prefer.

But then, smart water bottles and 2L bottles are pretty nice. If you glue the cap on well, that would be a good way to backwash with a Sawyer bag. You need to backwash periodically (I have only ever done it between seasons as routine maintenance), and it comes with a dumb fiddly losable syringe  for that purpose. It would be better to lose the syringe and bring a second sawyer bag for clean water, which you could then squeeze to back wash. It is better to carry a backup water bag /  backflush bag than a dumb single purpose syringe.

[Radagast]

Somewhere on this forum is a thread named "Items where the cheapest is the best." I think this overlap is especially big in backpacking, because cheaper items tend to be lighter and simpler, which are also desired backpacking traits. That is why I have been pushing certain things where I think the cheapest is actually the best available. My list:

- Sharing: nothing cuts weight like sharing. Watching a pot boil together is one of the great shared backpacking experiences (also: hot chocolate with Mint Schnapps). Everyone boiling water separately feels standoffish. Why have 4 tents, 4 stoves, 4 water filters, etc?
- Disposable water bottles: lightest, more durable than most or all bladders on the market.
- Cat can stove: lightest and simplest stove on the market. Entertaining. Fuel obviously carried in disposable bottle!
- Field or bamboo disposable chopsticks: lightest, most versatile, no crying if lost. Becomes mulch soon anyway. If you have a fire, just throw field chopsticks in instead of cleaning. Reuse bamboo until you lose it though.
- Old broken in shoes: you didn't get blisters the last 1,000 miles did you?
- Sawyer Mini filter: lightest, smallest, most versatile, connects to SmartWater/2L/other disposable bottles.
- Non-inflatable foam pad: lightest, most reliable.
- Stanco grease pot? I struggle to say this is best. No handle, flimsy, looks worn quickly because not anodized. But the lightest pot for its volume, and wide which is good for catching heat from a cat can stove.

Unfortunately I think the "Big Three" of tent, sleeping bag, and backpack won't make the list, which is why I haven't been pushing them. So those are good items to share, borrow, or rent. Conversely, I wouldn't hesitate to recommend buying the items on the list because they are both the best and the cheapest. If you try something expensive and it doesn't work out, oops. If you get the cheapest and it doesn't work out then at least you tried. But I personally use all the items on the list as my first-string go to gear.


I'm curious if anyone else had any backpacking items where cheapest is best.

[Valley of Plenty]

Isopropyl does not burn as hot and provides less heat per weight and volume. It reportedly also leaves a sticky residue. Denatured alcohol is ethanol which has been made to taste terrible and often mixed with methanol so you go blind and die if you drink it, allowing it so be sold legally and cheaply everywhere, especially at hardware or home improvement stores. Pure ethanol would be ideal, as I recall it provides more heat than methanol does. But hard to find.

I checked my local Walmart and Lowes for denatured alcohol, came up empty with both. Searching the store inventories online gave me acetone as the closest relevant result.

Looks like I'll be ordering through Amazon, which I seem to be doing for a lot of things lately. 

[Radagast]

Isopropyl does not burn as hot and provides less heat per weight and volume. It reportedly also leaves a sticky residue. Denatured alcohol is ethanol which has been made to taste terrible and often mixed with methanol so you go blind and die if you drink it, allowing it so be sold legally and cheaply everywhere, especially at hardware or home improvement stores. Pure ethanol would be ideal, as I recall it provides more heat than methanol does. But hard to find.

I checked my local Walmart and Lowes for denatured alcohol, came up empty with both. Searching the store inventories online gave me acetone as the closest relevant result.

Looks like I'll be ordering through Amazon, which I seem to be doing for a lot of things lately.

Wow, that's insane. None of my local hardware stores have it either! I mean it's been a few years since I bought any, but like 2018? Not that many. It seems like it is being generally discontinued? https://www.finewoodworking.com/2022/03/21/where-to-buy-denatured-alcohol

An alternative is yellow HEET bottles. Very specifically the yellow. A good thing about these is that they already come in a nice bottle, and should still be common. https://www.meijer.com/shopping/product/heet-28201-gas-line-antifreeze-and-water-remover-12-fl-oz-/7390528201.html

Although a higher ethanol content from the internet is probably a better fuel.

[Valley of Plenty]

Wow, that's insane. None of my local hardware stores have it either! I mean it's been a few years since I bought any, but like 2018? Not that many. It seems like it is being generally discontinued? https://www.finewoodworking.com/2022/03/21/where-to-buy-denatured-alcohol

An alternative is yellow HEET bottles. Very specifically the yellow. A good thing about these is that they already come in a nice bottle, and should still be common. https://www.meijer.com/shopping/product/heet-28201-gas-line-antifreeze-and-water-remover-12-fl-oz-/7390528201.html

Although a higher ethanol content from the internet is probably a better fuel.

So just to make sure I have this right, high ethanol content is what I want for this? The article you linked talks a lot about ethanol / methanol content, but I'm not sure if the woodworking application has the same ideal ratio. Is anything with "Denatured Alcohol" on the label fine to use, or do I need to read the ingredients lists to find the right kind?

[Radagast]

Wow, that's insane. None of my local hardware stores have it either! I mean it's been a few years since I bought any, but like 2018? Not that many. It seems like it is being generally discontinued? https://www.finewoodworking.com/2022/03/21/where-to-buy-denatured-alcohol

An alternative is yellow HEET bottles. Very specifically the yellow. A good thing about these is that they already come in a nice bottle, and should still be common. https://www.meijer.com/shopping/product/heet-28201-gas-line-antifreeze-and-water-remover-12-fl-oz-/7390528201.html

Although a higher ethanol content from the internet is probably a better fuel.

So just to make sure I have this right, high ethanol content is what I want for this? The article you linked talks a lot about ethanol / methanol content, but I'm not sure if the woodworking application has the same ideal ratio. Is anything with "Denatured Alcohol" on the label fine to use, or do I need to read the ingredients lists to find the right kind?

Any thing "Denatured Alcohol" is fine to use, and also anything marketed as "alcohol stove fuel" or similar. Marketed stove fuel may have a slightly refined composition that punches above the weight of similar methanol/ethanol percentages.

In theory, methanol is mildly toxic through skin absorption and inhalation, and has a lower burning temperature. Ethanol is only as toxic as what millions of people drink in quantity every day for fun, and burns hotter. In theory 100% ethanol is superior, and more ethanol is better. However the 90%+ concentrations are usually expensive. In practice, you will not receive significant methanol exposure from sporadic use in open air, and you won't notice that your stove takes 12s longer to boil because changing temperature, wind, and humidity will have larger effect on boil time.

[Radagast]

More notes on using the super cat can stove I linked to:
- Pots need to be wide to catch heat, tall narrow pots won't work well. 5-6 inch diameter is ideal (all the ones I linked are in that range).
- After you light it, the fuel needs to boil before you can put the stove on without smothering it. A turbulent surface and faint hissing noise mean it's ready.
- Fuel needs to be warm to light / light easily. Warmer is better. If it's near or below freezing, your stove and fuel should be in an inside pocket.
- Use an insulator when putting the stove on snow or frozen ground, typically a small piece of cardboard wrapped on top with aluminum leftover from your windscreen to keep the cardboard from burning. That should probably be in an inside pocket too below freezing.
- A windscreen is required, as tall as the inside of your pot if you store it there, or as tall as the pot+stove (~6") if stored separately. Should be about 1/2" wider than the pot on all sides. Traditionally the windscreen has holes punched or crenelations cut into the bottom to let air into the stove, and is made from a free disposable aluminum cake pan. Aluminum foil can be used but is fragile and so thin it catches fire and blows around. A popular and better choice is aluminum flashing https://www.homedepot.com/p/RESISTO-6-in-x-25-ft-Aluminum-Flashing-Tape-66876/313294560 but that makes it expensive. Feel free to try anything you have on hand that blocks wind, coils around the pot right, is light, and doesn't burn. Maybe a double layer of https://www.homedepot.com/p/Saint-Gobain-ADFORS-FibaTape-Perfect-Finish-6-in-x-75-ft-Self-Adhesive-Wall-Repair-Fabric-FDW9151-U/311223236 ?