Author Topic: Mustachian Gear for the Great Outdoors  (Read 4751 times)

Valley of Plenty

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Mustachian Gear for the Great Outdoors
« on: June 08, 2022, 12:04:34 PM »
Hey everyone, I'm looking to start getting into some camping and wilderness expeditions in the near future, and I want to make sure I'm properly kitted for it. I also don't want to spend a ton of money on fancy name brand stuff. I figure there must be plenty of mustachians with experience with this sort of thing, so this seemed like the right place to ask for tips. I'm basically starting from scratch here, I don't have much of anything. No hiking boots, no rugged apparel, no hiking/camping gear, no anything.

I'll be doing 2-3 day excursions with a few friends, probably starting in the fall. We'll be starting out hiking several miles on foot through the Allegheny mountains in PA with all our gear and provisions on our backs. We won't be in the literal middle of nowhere, and one of my friends is familiar enough with the area that we don't have to worry about getting lost and stranded in the wilderness. We plan on doing more hikes in the future in different locations as well.

What do I need to buy, and where should I go to get the best deal? I'd also welcome any recommendations on learning resources to help me prepare.

Thanks in advance!

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Re: Mustachian Gear for the Great Outdoors
« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2022, 12:15:39 PM »
I have had a lot of success at REI's "scratch and dent" sales, in particular with apparel and things like backpacks.

Patagonia also has a resale section for their apparel.  I haven't used it myself but I bet deals can be head.

For hiking boots, for multiday mountainous hiking as you describe, I suggest getting relatively stiff, high-topped boots.  You will need to buy them in advance and break them in!

I find these can be hard to find used and you definitely want a pair that fit well.  I suggest trying on several pairs at your local mountain store, whether it be REI or some other outdoor outfitter (probably not a Big 5 or a Dick's) and see what feels good.  Then look for a coupon to the store.  Boots/footwear is probably the most important part of a comfortable hiking and backpacking experience. 


honeybbq

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Re: Mustachian Gear for the Great Outdoors
« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2022, 12:37:49 PM »
I'm sure I'll get some tomatoes thrown at me but that's ok.

I find with most outdoor gear, you get what you pay for. If you go to REI and get a nice $$$ REI tent, the poles won't break, the rainfly will be rainproof, the stakes won't bend or snap. If you buy a cheaper tent at walmart.... all those things may happen. I personally hate being stressed or miserable in the outdoors so I usually try very hard to buy quality gear that I know and trust.   If you are just car camping and can always just 'give up' and go sit in the car... well, your needs may be different. Also, REI basically has 1000% promise so if for some reason you don't like the gear or it doesn't perform- you can always take it back. Over the years I have upgraded my equipment as I spend more and more time outside. I do really find for most things, price is not arbitrary- it indicates quality.

You can find really good gear in resale groups on FB and as mentioned REI garage sales, craigslist, etc. 

Sounds like you'll need a backpacking backpack- you can go to REI and try them on weighted down to see what feels good and comfortable. Then at least you'll know what brands to look for.

Do you need a tent? Sleeping bag?

You'll want some way to carry water- most convenient when backpacking is a reservoir.

You may need a water purification system like a Be Free.

Good shoes, good wool socks and clothing. A jacket that keeps out wind/rain/snow etc.

There's a really good checklist here: https://www.rei.com/learn/expert-advice/backpacking-checklist.html
That has lots of items. Now, you don't need all them, but it's a good place to start looking.

I also carry a satellite communicator and GPS device. It's expensive and I pay a monthly fee but it's better than being lost or dead.

lucenzo11

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Re: Mustachian Gear for the Great Outdoors
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2022, 01:21:24 PM »
+1 for getting quality boots that fit. Depending on your mileage (assuming you are doing decent amount if you are backpacking), this might be the most important thing you buy. If your feet hurt, it will not be fun. I also recommend going to REI and at least trying on some different brands. This will give you a general idea of size and feel and they'll at least help you pick something decent. Can always go online after and find the best deal later.

As for the rest of your gear, you are going to want semi decent items, but your best bet to start is buying used. Craiglist, tag sales, REI garage sales are all your best friends. You also don't need to go ultralight. This is a market for ultralight tents and gear but you do not need this, most people don't. If you are only doing two or three days then you can get away with heavier gear and it will help you get into shape, if that's a goal of yours. Also, consider sharing some gear with your friends if you can and you plan to go with them regularly. Like you only need one camp stove for all of you. If you are friendly enough with them then you should share a tent. That will also cut down on collective weight.

jrhampt

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Re: Mustachian Gear for the Great Outdoors
« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2022, 01:48:05 PM »
I going to be contrarian here and say that I wouldn't worry about serious boots if you are hiking only 2-3 days at a time.  I've section hiked a few hundred miles of the AT from PA through a good bit of NH and my preferred footwear is a good pair of trail runners (these are multipurpose since I also use them for running, not just hiking).  I like adidas terrex with the continental tire soles because I find they get good traction and are lightweight.  I don't like the clunky, heavy boots.  But I do like wool socks.

As for gear, I second REI outlet and their garage sales.  You really just want three things: a quality tent, sleeping bag that's rated for whatever temp you intend to use it in, and backpack that don't weigh too much...you end up paying lots more for each decrease in weight but there's no need to pay a premium for the really ultralight stuff, as previously mentioned.  You should be able to get a mid-tier option that's not super heavy but also not super expensive.  Then some nalgene water bottles (or camelback liner), which aren't too expensive, and share other gear with the experienced people, who should have plenty of stuff like campstoves, water filters, etc.

As for clothes, just whatever athletic clothing you already own is probably fine.  For backpacking in the fall, I always, always bring a knit hat for warmth as well as one to keep out the sun, and a pair of gloves.  They don't take up much space but when you need them, you'll be glad they are in your pack.  And a waterproof outer layer that doesn't take up a lot of space is great to have, too.  For jackets, I like the northface thermoball ones because they are so lightweight and packable.  You can find these on clearance when they're out of season and they pack up so well that they travel with me everywhere, not just on the trail.

Finally, I really like a hiking pole to save my knees and for more stability on the downhills (I think two poles is overkill and can get in the way but one is just right for me).  You're young so you might not want one, but they come in handy once you get into your thirties and beyond.

If you end up hiking into the late fall/winter at higher elevations, I'd get some kahtoola microspikes.  These are awesome in icy/snowy conditions and can really extend the hiking season.

oh yes, and a lightweight pair of camp shoes for evening so you can take off whatever you've been hiking in.  crocs, flip flops, really whatever doesn't take up a lot of space/ packs flat.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2022, 01:49:40 PM by jrhampt »

Valley of Plenty

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Re: Mustachian Gear for the Great Outdoors
« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2022, 02:28:36 PM »
I have had a lot of success at REI's "scratch and dent" sales, in particular with apparel and things like backpacks.

Patagonia also has a resale section for their apparel.  I haven't used it myself but I bet deals can be head.

For hiking boots, for multiday mountainous hiking as you describe, I suggest getting relatively stiff, high-topped boots.  You will need to buy them in advance and break them in!

I find these can be hard to find used and you definitely want a pair that fit well.  I suggest trying on several pairs at your local mountain store, whether it be REI or some other outdoor outfitter (probably not a Big 5 or a Dick's) and see what feels good.  Then look for a coupon to the store.  Boots/footwear is probably the most important part of a comfortable hiking and backpacking experience.

The nearest REI to me is approximately an hour away. The nearest Patagonia is about 2 hours away. Neither of those chains seem to have much of a presence in my area. Is it worth driving an hour to go to REI or should I consider different options?

Valley of Plenty

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Re: Mustachian Gear for the Great Outdoors
« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2022, 02:48:02 PM »
I'm sure I'll get some tomatoes thrown at me but that's ok.

I find with most outdoor gear, you get what you pay for. If you go to REI and get a nice $$$ REI tent, the poles won't break, the rainfly will be rainproof, the stakes won't bend or snap. If you buy a cheaper tent at walmart.... all those things may happen. I personally hate being stressed or miserable in the outdoors so I usually try very hard to buy quality gear that I know and trust.   If you are just car camping and can always just 'give up' and go sit in the car... well, your needs may be different. Also, REI basically has 1000% promise so if for some reason you don't like the gear or it doesn't perform- you can always take it back. Over the years I have upgraded my equipment as I spend more and more time outside. I do really find for most things, price is not arbitrary- it indicates quality.

You can find really good gear in resale groups on FB and as mentioned REI garage sales, craigslist, etc. 

Sounds like you'll need a backpacking backpack- you can go to REI and try them on weighted down to see what feels good and comfortable. Then at least you'll know what brands to look for.

Do you need a tent? Sleeping bag?

You'll want some way to carry water- most convenient when backpacking is a reservoir.

You may need a water purification system like a Be Free.

Good shoes, good wool socks and clothing. A jacket that keeps out wind/rain/snow etc.

There's a really good checklist here: https://www.rei.com/learn/expert-advice/backpacking-checklist.html
That has lots of items. Now, you don't need all them, but it's a good place to start looking.

I also carry a satellite communicator and GPS device. It's expensive and I pay a monthly fee but it's better than being lost or dead.

I definitely want to make sure I get the most out of my gear. I want to save money but I also don't want to have to deal with gear failure when I'm in the middle of nowhere, a day's walk from civilization.

This REI place sounds great, unfortunate that I haven't heard of it before today and the nearest one is an hour from my house. Do they have a decent online store or do I have to drive there to shop? I can make that drive, but I'd need to know it's worth my time and money. I will also absolutely not be car camping. My intent with these trips is to work up to longer and more high intensity excursions. 1-3 day trips is just the starting point. Part of the goal here is also to develop the experience and skills to be able to just up and disappear into the woods for days/weeks at a time if necessary. That is of course a long ways off, but yeah car camping isn't in my plans.

I will certainly need a backpack. I think I have some idea what to look for in that regard already.

Tent, yes. Most of these will be group outings, where I may not be the one carrying the tent, but I still figure I should have one. I've heard good things about the tipi tents with stoves, I'm thinking maybe that would be a good idea for trips with multiple people. Something more minimalistic would probably be nice to have as well, in case bringing a whole stove feels too excessive.

As for water, I've heard about water purification systems that utilize two collapsible bags (one "dirty" and one clean), with a purification pump to transfer water from the dirty bag to the clean bag? This sounds great to me, but I also have no experience with this sort of thing. Maybe there are better options? I was reading an old thread and saw a few people mention iodine tablets as a cheap and easy way to purify water.

GPS and Sat Comms definitely sounds worth having, though I don't expect I'll have need for either in the near future. I do want to look into radio communications options for the group I'll be travelling with.

I'll have a look at that checklist. Thanks for all the info!

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Re: Mustachian Gear for the Great Outdoors
« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2022, 03:01:36 PM »
I think it is worth driving the hour to REI unless you have a really good outdoors store closer that you already know you trust.  REI has good everything.  Local camp stores might only have one option or none of somethings you need, like a backpack.

Mustachian way to go about it is try out everything at REI, make a list and then get equivalents through craiglist/marketplace/ebay.   This for the big ticket tent, sleeping bag, backpack, stove, rain jacket.  The smaller items cookset, sneakers, clothes, flashlight, pillow, sleeping pad you'll be able to pull together or borrow. We used to have an army surplus like store that had some things not high end, like socks and sleeping pads.

I through hiked the AT and wore the Merrill Moab hiking sneaker and trail runners. Do not get a shoe/boot with a Gore-Tex liner.  They take longer to dry and your feet are going to get wet anyway.  I liked the hiking sneaker the best.  Definitely get camp shoes, I used crocs. You need at least 2 pairs of wool socks.  Darn Tough are the best because they are guaranteed.  If REI doesn't have them you can order them online But any wool or cool max sock is going to be fine (Smartwool wears out the fastest and may be the most comfortable, but is a waste of money). Swap them out as they get wet or just switch them up at camp for some freshness.

I used a 65 liter pack.  It carried all my gear - clothes (pants, change of underwear, two pair of socks, fleece hoody, hat, gloves, rain jacket, two t-shirts (wool is best), tent, sleeping pad (inflatable is most comfortable, I used accordion style 3/4 length) stove, pot, cup, utensil, knife (swiss army knife) water filter, Aqua mira water treatment, med kit, emergency kit, food and water (one 3 liter bladder for water which I usually kept 2/3 full depending on water sources and one 1 liter nalgene for mixed drinks).

 For water I bought a "bucket" that folded into a square smaller than my phone.  I would fill up at camp and then filter/wash/cook out of the bucket.  It wasn't self supporting, so I hung it from a tree or post with a rope and a pretend carabiner. It was a convenience thing.

getsorted

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Re: Mustachian Gear for the Great Outdoors
« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2022, 03:16:00 PM »
I going to be contrarian here and say that I wouldn't worry about serious boots if you are hiking only 2-3 days at a time. 

I feel the same. I've been hiking in Asics trail runners forever. Heavy boots make me fall down. But I am a three-season, fair-weather hiker in the Midwest. We have plenty of steep hills and plenty of rocks, but we don't have proper mountains. 

I take all my hiking gear advice from http://asthecrowflies.org/. She seems to have a good handle on when to spring for good gear and when to reinforce a Ziploc bag with duct tape.

As with bike components, the more lightweight, the more expensive, but as I keep telling my cycling friends, if I really want to shave off a few ounces, dieting would be easier than paying for carbon fiber or buying titanium sporks or whatever.

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Re: Mustachian Gear for the Great Outdoors
« Reply #9 on: June 08, 2022, 03:24:29 PM »
I love hiking in trail runners, as well.

I would start with your local buy nothing group. A lot of people gear up but don't do much. Or upgrade their gear and keep the old just because they can.

Watch REI's Miranda in the Wild gear reviews on YouTube (I adore Miranda, so just go watch her channel).


FiveSigmas

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Re: Mustachian Gear for the Great Outdoors
« Reply #10 on: June 08, 2022, 03:39:46 PM »
I see there's some dissent here, but I would agree that you should buy built-for-hiking footwear, buy them new, and take some time to break them in. Don't forget quality socks, too. There's nothing worse than getting blisters on your first day and then hiking with them for the rest of the journey. All the rest, I would look at borrowing, Craigslisting, or even just renting. You should also look to see if there's a local gear lending library (in WA state, for instance, the WTA offers one, although it's mainly targeted at youth).

REI is pretty much the gold-standard outdoor gear retailer (at least here in the northwest). Their store-brand stuff is (usually) very good and can be reasonably priced during their periodic sales (you just missed their Memorial Day sale, unfortunately). They also used to have amazing, bordering on absurd return policies (which were abused and have now been dialed back). Most of the time, expect to pay MSRP (or above!?!) for name-brand stuff. You can get a ~10% rebate by becoming a member (for a nominal, one time fee), but this is paid in store credit, only applies to full-price items, and is paid out annually. Periodically, they offer memberships "for free" (pay the $20 and get a membership + a $20 gift card). @lhamo can give you a credit-card referral for an additional discount. I've been tempted, but usually find other credit-cards more rewarding.

Keep in mind that there's a reason why retailers offer memberships, sales, and review channels on Youtube (even if they're very good). It's easy to get caught up in gear-mania and get more than you need (I'm a complete hypocrite in this regard, though).

Edit: spelling.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2022, 03:43:20 PM by FiveSigmas »

FiveSigmas

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Re: Mustachian Gear for the Great Outdoors
« Reply #11 on: June 08, 2022, 04:15:33 PM »
Oh, as with all things, you can usually get discounted gift cards for stuff you decide to buy new. For instance, right now you can save ~$5 on a $50 REI gift card at Target (https://www.target.com/p/cheers-to-you-gift-card-email-delivery/).

Again, you decide if the marketing gimmicks are worth it. :-)

Edit: typo.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2022, 04:20:09 PM by FiveSigmas »

Valley of Plenty

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Re: Mustachian Gear for the Great Outdoors
« Reply #12 on: June 08, 2022, 07:13:20 PM »
Thanks for all the recommendations guys! It sounds like I will be making the drive to check out the nearest REI and see what the hype is all about.

I poked around facebook marketplace and found a listing for a 65L Teton Explorer4000, listed as in good condition for $50. I read some reviews and it looks like it's widely regarded as a pretty great all around backpack for non-ultralight hikers. It retails new for $84.

What do you guys think? Is this a good find? Should I make an offer?

Blackeagle

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Re: Mustachian Gear for the Great Outdoors
« Reply #13 on: June 08, 2022, 07:58:07 PM »
I would advocate trying on any backpack before you buy it.  This could mean going to REI and trying on everything they have, then looking for it used, or it could mean negotiating with whoever’s selling it to try it on first.  You’ll need to test it out with a realistic amount of weight (what you’ll be carrying in it on the trail) and properly adjusted for you.  No matter how good of a deal the pack is, if you get it an find it doesn’t work well for you, it’s wasted money.  If you don’t realize it’s a bad fit until you’re actually out on the trail and hating carrying it, that’s even worse.

I’ll second the need for quality footwear.  That said, for 3 days that doesn’t necessarily mean big, heavy leather hiking boots.  Something with good ankle support that doesn’t cause you blisters is much better than a more hardcore hiking boot that will rub your feet raw.  Again, try it on first.

Clothing probably doesn’t need to be specialized hiking gear.  If you have “athletic” clothing that will probably work well for you.  Make sure you have some base layers that will wick moisture well, some insulating layers that will keep you warm even when wet, and some waterproof layers that breathe (the latter is probably the least likely that you will already have; get a good Goretex or equivalent jacket).  You definitely don’t want anything cotton. Wool or synthetics are the way to go for the base and insulating layers.

For everything else, used is a great way to buy gear if you can find it.  So is borrowing gear from outdoorsy friends.  Ask other folks who are going on the hike if they have any older gear that they’re not using that you could borrow (I know I have a ton of that stuff).

FiveSigmas

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Re: Mustachian Gear for the Great Outdoors
« Reply #14 on: June 08, 2022, 08:16:23 PM »
I would advocate trying on any backpack before you buy it.  This could mean going to REI and trying on everything they have, then looking for it used, or it could mean negotiating with whoever’s selling it to try it on first.  You’ll need to test it out with a realistic amount of weight (what you’ll be carrying in it on the trail) and properly adjusted for you.  No matter how good of a deal the pack is, if you get it an find it doesn’t work well for you, it’s wasted money.  If you don’t realize it’s a bad fit until you’re actually out on the trail and hating carrying it, that’s even worse.

I agree. Rucksacks are probably the second-most likely to chafe piece of gear you'll use, and it's important to get the fit right. Try on a bunch of packs at REI/wherever to get a sense of what it could/should feel like before getting a random pack on CL. Pay special attention to any uncomfortable rubbing -- anything that seems mildly annoying in the first few minutes can become a royal pain after a day or two. If you have a friend who has more experience backpacking bring him/her along so they can help you adjust it properly (for instance, you want more of the weight on your hips -- rather than shoulders -- than you might think).

As with all CL items, don't fall in love with any one offer too quickly. Another one will come around. :-)

ETA: Oh... also, make sure and wear your actual hiking clothes when you try on the pack. Belts and even seams on shirts, etc... can add weird pressure points. And as Blackeagle mentioned, be sure and fill the pack with evenly distributed/realistic weight.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2022, 08:58:51 PM by FiveSigmas »

lucenzo11

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Re: Mustachian Gear for the Great Outdoors
« Reply #15 on: June 08, 2022, 09:58:40 PM »
Thank you to those chiming in on trail runners, definitely an option and really it just comes down to preference. REI has a good breakdown on boots vs trail runners and the pros and cons of both. https://www.rei.com/learn/expert-advice/hiking-boots-vs-trail-runners-the-great-debate.html I honestly have both and pick based on the trail and duration of hike.

As for water purification, it's usually best to have two forms of purification on you at all times. I have a very small Sawyer filter that I use. It takes forever to do large amounts of water but it gets the job done. Then I have backup iodine tablets. I would recommend talking to the staff at REI, they should be able to provide you a good breakdown of the purification market and your options. As others have said, you don't need to buy anything there, just figure out what you would buy and then find the best deal online.

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Re: Mustachian Gear for the Great Outdoors
« Reply #16 on: June 09, 2022, 06:48:57 AM »
Lots of great recommendations here. I'll echo a couple and add a couple -

-Trail runners, especially those that are water-resistant, are also my preferred hiking shoe. I don't tend to do much hiking where there's a lot of opportunity for injuring my ankles and that really needs to be taken into account when you're planning a hike. Ankle support, and thus hiking 'boots', is preferred either/both when you have a lot of uncertain terrain or if you're carrying a load. Talk to the folks at REI - they can help you.

-After visiting REI, take a stroll around Bass Pro Shops (there is one in Harrisburg) - they won't have the same quality of stuff nor as many employees who are able to truly assist but they will still have a large selection of outdoor gear and the stuff you don't get at REI can also be had from there.

-One very important thing to consider is keeping yourself dry - especially your feet, your groin, and your gear. Being wet in areas where chafing and blisters can occur is the single easiest way to turn an outing into a miserable experience. Nothing worse than a wet sleeping bag, or socks, or shoes, etc.

-Don't rule out a hammock for spring-fall camping. Many can be had with a mesh cover and a rain fly, and they take up far, far, far less space than a tent and pad.

-Don't get sold on super fancy stuff. You don't need a camp chair that folds into 4 configurations and has carbon fiber poles, sometimes the basic thing can do just as well as the expensive one.

-Finally, make sure you're comfortable with some outdoor basics - first aid, tying knots, knowing how to recognize poisonous plants, securing your gear from bears/critters, etc. You can buy all the fancy gear you want but it will be next to worthless if you can't manage your own health and safety first. I don't mean to sound too harsh, but too many people go camping/hiking without understanding how to survive in a situation that turns south, because even the most relaxed hike or basic camping excursion can turn dangerous faster than you realize.

Valley of Plenty

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Re: Mustachian Gear for the Great Outdoors
« Reply #17 on: June 09, 2022, 09:59:53 AM »
Are there any good YouTube series for teaching everything one needs to know when hiking/camping in the back country? I do want to be as prepared as possible both in terms of gear and knowledge.

I've been reading articles on the REI website, and those have been very helpful.

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Re: Mustachian Gear for the Great Outdoors
« Reply #18 on: June 09, 2022, 01:35:27 PM »
Depending on where in PA you are, another store to consider is Eastern Mountain Sports. Relatively large or outdoorsy towns often have great independent stores, too.


My overwhelming advice is to just not buy too much before you’ve done quite a few trips. Some stores will rent backpacks and sleeping bags and more, or there are even some mail order rentals these days. The best way to know what you actually want is sometimes to hike several miles with a worse version so you know what you don’t like.

Valley of Plenty

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Re: Mustachian Gear for the Great Outdoors
« Reply #19 on: June 09, 2022, 01:42:41 PM »
Depending on where in PA you are, another store to consider is Eastern Mountain Sports. Relatively large or outdoorsy towns often have great independent stores, too.


My overwhelming advice is to just not buy too much before you’ve done quite a few trips. Some stores will rent backpacks and sleeping bags and more, or there are even some mail order rentals these days. The best way to know what you actually want is sometimes to hike several miles with a worse version so you know what you don’t like.

Eastern Mountain Sports doesn't seem to be any better. Closest one is about 3 hours away from me. I'm in central PA, fairly close to State College.

I think I am just going to make the drive out to REI and make it a point to try as many things as possible and take lots of notes. The two most important things seem to be footwear and a backpack. Everything else will probably be mostly trial and error until I find out what works for me.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2022, 01:46:19 PM by Valley of Plenty »

Blissful Biker

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Re: Mustachian Gear for the Great Outdoors
« Reply #20 on: June 09, 2022, 01:57:09 PM »
My two bits is to view the gear as an investment.  Buy good quality and the cost amortizes over many, many years of enjoying it.  Most of my gear was purchased on seasonal sales 20+ years ago and I still love it because I bought well.  I'm grateful to my younger self. 

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Re: Mustachian Gear for the Great Outdoors
« Reply #21 on: June 09, 2022, 08:36:26 PM »
Yes, REI is great. The prices are high but the quality and customer service is usually excellent.
Many  of the employees are dedicated outdoors junkies and work there in part for the employee discount. They will know all about the gear, maybe too much!
I've gotten great deals on tents at their used gear sales, rental tents.
Once you identify the gear you like check Craigslist et al; the thing about gear junkies is they love to upgrade, so you can buy the formerly top gear for cheap.

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Re: Mustachian Gear for the Great Outdoors
« Reply #22 on: June 10, 2022, 08:58:10 AM »
If we are buying outdoor gear for life experiences that we enjoy, we value quality much more than price. We like REI.

Kl285528

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Re: Mustachian Gear for the Great Outdoors
« Reply #23 on: June 10, 2022, 09:59:51 AM »
Borrow if you can - you'll know alot more after just a 3 day trip! Boots are a personal preference, but I logged hundreds of miles with 50 pounds on my back with $100 (on sale) low end Vasque boots - light weight. I need ankle support, so I need boots. My son prefers trail runners (like a running shoe), even though he will carry the same weight as me. Good shoes are key. I still use sock liners as well as socks. Treat hot spot on feet quickly if need be. Meaning, bring some band aids. I highly recommend hiking poles - got a relatively inexpensive set called Hiker Hunger off of amazon - lasted 300 miles, until one failed - really important if you are carrying a load and you are going up and down - they turn you into a far more stable 4 footed animal! Have fun!

Radagast

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Re: Mustachian Gear for the Great Outdoors
« Reply #24 on: June 10, 2022, 10:13:17 AM »
For days trips it doesn’t matter much, any old backpack will work just fine.

For water, just buy a cheap bottle or bottles of water in your favorite sizes from a grocery store or gas station and then reuse them forever. They are just as durable as any water bottle, a tiny fraction of the weight and cost. The “smart water” https://www.target.com/p/smartwater-1-l-bottle/-/A-12953554#lnk=sametab bottles have threads compatible with the https://www.rei.com/product/103050/sawyer-squeeze-water-filter-system water filter and I think conventional 2-liter bottles also do. https://www.rei.com/product/890900/sawyer-mini-water-filter is the lightest water filter.

The lightest and least expensive light duty stove is a cat can stove (or potted meat product if you don’t know any cats) https://andrewskurka.com/how-to-make-a-fancy-feast-alcohol-stove/

These are cheap but effective solutions beloved by ultralight backpackers everywhere.

Always seek to be a minimalist in terms of weight and number of items carried. It is a lot more enjoyable that way. Don’t buy expensive crap unless it is clearly superior.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2022, 12:20:07 AM by Radagast »

Radagast

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Re: Mustachian Gear for the Great Outdoors
« Reply #25 on: June 10, 2022, 10:53:55 AM »
Footwear: I think most people get problems because they buy special hiking shoes. Your old worn in pair of tennis shoes that you don't mind getting dirty is probably superior. For comparison, there are hardcore archery hunters who use leather moccasins.

Look for ultralightweight backpacking sites for tips. They tend to emphasize a minimalist mindset, and many of the regular posters are hobos who spend months on the trail every year, and consequently don't have high paying paying jobs which afford pointless fancy gear. https://backpackinglight.com/forums/ used to be my favorite. Admittedly and sadly my own job and house(s) have kept me away for nearly a decade now so I am not sure if this is still a great resource.

From the BPL website: "Need to know how to use a spork as a tent stake?" Yup, that's your mustachian place!
« Last Edit: June 10, 2022, 10:59:10 AM by Radagast »

Radagast

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Re: Mustachian Gear for the Great Outdoors
« Reply #26 on: June 11, 2022, 12:16:06 AM »
Cook pot: the Grease Pot is the natural companion to the cat can stove: https://www.walmart.com/ip/Stanco-Gs1200-Grease-Strainer/25858919 and yes people hike the Rocky Mountains from Mexico to Canada using just that for cookware. (But I would forgive you if you upgraded to a https://www.toaksoutdoor.com/products/pot-700-d115-l?variant=32259414470 or https://gsioutdoors.com/halulite-tea-kettle.html because I have both)

Tents: I recommend a tarp/tent supported by a trekking pole. Conventional freestanding standing tents have two common failure points: the poles and the zipper. Well these things don't have either of those!
https://www.sixmoondesigns.com/collections/ultralight-shelters/products/deschutes-plus-ultralight-tarp
https://www.tarptent.com/product/stratospire-2/
There are a bunch of these by many companies and I am not necessarily endorsing those two (though I bought a stratospire 2 for my parents once, so maybe I am). The trekking pole will never break, and with beefy stakes these are hurricane proof. They are similarly hard to set up to a freestanding shelter, but offer a lot more flexibility as you grow into them because you can extend the pole and pitch them high to let a breeze in, lower the pole and pitch against the ground to keep the breeze out, pitch one side low and the other high, or whatever. Once you experience this flexibility its hard to go back. Also they simply offer more function per weight and price. Plus instead of dead weight poles you get trek poles.
Special-made flat rectangular tarps are rumored to represent the ultimate in low price and pitching flexibility but I haven't used one.
Barring that, start by looking at REI half and quarter domes for a conventional freestanding double wall bathtub tent.

Pads: a thick high R-value foam pad such as https://www.rei.com/product/179492/exped-flexmat-plus-sleeping-pad. I recommend this instead of inflatable pads because of simplicity, reliability, and longevity.

Sleeping bags: start with a warm bulky one, then you can upgrade to a small ultralight one of you get serious, and then if it gets really cold you can put the small one inside the big one and be super warm. https://www.rei.com/product/187507/kelty-cosmic-20-sleeping-bag-mens seems like the best starter if buying new.

Right now is peak season for buying outdoor gear, which means inventory is low and prices are high. Things will start to get cheaper and more available in August and especially September.

Ha, the closest REI to me was 4 hours for many years. 1 hour is like next door.

If you want to splurge, skip Patagonia and head to Zpacks: https://zpacks.com/ Sadly their prices have doubled and tripled since I bought anything there.

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Re: Mustachian Gear for the Great Outdoors
« Reply #27 on: June 11, 2022, 04:30:23 PM »
For days trips it doesn’t matter much, any old backpack will work just fine.

For water, just buy a cheap bottle or bottles of water in your favorite sizes from a grocery store or gas station and then reuse them forever. They are just as durable as any water bottle, a tiny fraction of the weight and cost. The “smart water” https://www.target.com/p/smartwater-1-l-bottle/-/A-12953554#lnk=sametab bottles have threads compatible with the https://www.rei.com/product/103050/sawyer-squeeze-water-filter-system water filter and I think conventional 2-liter bottles also do. https://www.rei.com/product/890900/sawyer-mini-water-filter is the lightest water filter.

The lightest and least expensive light duty stove is a cat can stove (or potted meat product if you don’t know any cats) https://andrewskurka.com/how-to-make-a-fancy-feast-alcohol-stove/

These are cheap but effective solutions beloved by ultralight backpackers everywhere.

Always seek to be a minimalist in terms of weight and number of items carried. It is a lot more enjoyable that way. Don’t buy expensive crap unless it is clearly superior.

If someone doesn't want to deal with the cat can stove, I recommend this one: https://www.amazon.com/AOTU-Portable-Backpacking-Ignition-Wind-Resistance/dp/B07NJYV3NP/ref=mp_s_a_1_8?crid=34FDLA66NBAVL&keywords=camp+stove&qid=1654986490&sprefix=camp+stove%2Caps%2C158&sr=8-8

A cheaper version of the MSR Pocket Rocket, with a piezoelectric ignitor.

Radagast

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Re: Mustachian Gear for the Great Outdoors
« Reply #28 on: June 11, 2022, 05:35:18 PM »
For days trips it doesn’t matter much, any old backpack will work just fine.

For water, just buy a cheap bottle or bottles of water in your favorite sizes from a grocery store or gas station and then reuse them forever. They are just as durable as any water bottle, a tiny fraction of the weight and cost. The “smart water” https://www.target.com/p/smartwater-1-l-bottle/-/A-12953554#lnk=sametab bottles have threads compatible with the https://www.rei.com/product/103050/sawyer-squeeze-water-filter-system water filter and I think conventional 2-liter bottles also do. https://www.rei.com/product/890900/sawyer-mini-water-filter is the lightest water filter.

The lightest and least expensive light duty stove is a cat can stove (or potted meat product if you don’t know any cats) https://andrewskurka.com/how-to-make-a-fancy-feast-alcohol-stove/

These are cheap but effective solutions beloved by ultralight backpackers everywhere.

Always seek to be a minimalist in terms of weight and number of items carried. It is a lot more enjoyable that way. Don’t buy expensive crap unless it is clearly superior.

If someone doesn't want to deal with the cat can stove, I recommend this one: https://www.amazon.com/AOTU-Portable-Backpacking-Ignition-Wind-Resistance/dp/B07NJYV3NP/ref=mp_s_a_1_8?crid=34FDLA66NBAVL&keywords=camp+stove&qid=1654986490&sprefix=camp+stove%2Caps%2C158&sr=8-8

A cheaper version of the MSR Pocket Rocket, with a piezoelectric ignitor.
Nice! I should also point out that the cat can stoves use energy-poor denatured alcohol. Although the stove itself weighs nothing, there is a point which I can't remember, but let's say that if you plan to boil more than 10 liters of water either because of an expedition or a large group regular gas stoves such as yours will weigh less. The fuel weight savings will be greater than the stove weight savings.

lifeandlimb

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Re: Mustachian Gear for the Great Outdoors
« Reply #29 on: June 13, 2022, 12:32:20 PM »
Aim to buy at least a step up from the cheapest thing available. The cheapest option will always result in a sore neck/pains/problems.

A NOTE ABOUT REI: As far as I know, REI still has one of the most relaxed return policies on the planet. You can return most things within one year, in almost any state of use, no questions asked. Feel free to use this policy like a rental service!

REI has a couple of big sales per year, usually around the holidays and one around April/May I believe. The associates that work there tend to be either inexperienced or have knowledge about only one type of outdoor activity, so take their advice with a grain of salt.

Ask your experienced friends for recommendations and trust them. If they've put in the miles, they know. Otherwise read up here:
https://www.switchbacktravel.com/backpacking-gear-reviews
https://www.outdoorgearlab.com/

Other well-priced online retailers:
Backcountry
Campsaver
Moosejaw
Poshmark (great for pre-owned outdoor apparel)
Amazon

Random notes:
* Whatever temperature your sleeping bag is rated for, is the survival temperature, so if it says 20F, don't expect to be comfortable in 25F, expect to be alive but feel like you're freezing your ass off.
* Buy a head lamp
* DON'T OVERPACK on anything except water. You may injure yourself if your pack is too heavy
* Merino wool socks. Don't mess with that cotton stuff, especially if there might be rain
* I prefer to hike in trail runners. Their treads will grab better than sneakers, but are more lightweight and flexible than hiking shoes...unless you are doing 5+ days in extremely rocky, unstable terrain—then you might want hiking shoes. Lightweight and flexible shoes will also allow you to develop strength in your ankles and lower legs, which you'll be happy about later
* Borrow, borrow, borrow before you buy. It's a great way to test out what you like before committing $$
* For information on how to: oftentimes the local park service for the area you're going to will have a website with some information about how to responsibly recreate there and dangers to watch out for

Be safe, look up the local park/rescue hotline, remember to pack in+pack out, and have fun!
« Last Edit: June 13, 2022, 12:48:31 PM by lifeandlimb »

Valley of Plenty

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Re: Mustachian Gear for the Great Outdoors
« Reply #30 on: June 13, 2022, 01:10:44 PM »
Post-REI Trip Update!

I made the drive to REI on Friday and spent about 3 hours there browsing, asking questions, and trying on nearly a dozen different pairs of boots. That place is everything you guys promised, and more! I can definitely see why everyone here recommends going there, they definitely seem to have everything you would need for any skill level. The staff were extremely helpful and I really got the sense that they were there to help and not just sell product. In fact, one of the employees even steered me away from the REI Co-op brand hiking boots, saying that they really weren't the best in terms of quality and he didn't recommend them. I ended up spending about $400 in total, half of which was in the boots I bought.

After recommendations and a lot of research, I decided I wanted to get a pair of full-grain leather boots with good ankle support. I expect to be carrying a fair bit of weight, and I want the option to do off-trail hiking, so boots seemed a better option than sneakers or trail runners. The pair I ended up getting was the Keen Durand 2s. The price made me wince, but of all the pairs I tried on, the Keen brand ones were the only ones that fit well on my feet. Everything else was either too tight in the toe section or too loose around the ankles. I laced up the Durands and took a few steps and immediately knew I had found the winner. Hopefully the quality is as good as it's marketed to be and I will get many years out of these before having to buy another pair.

Aside from boots, I also bought some of the basic essentials that some online price-matching showed I wasn't going to get for cheaper elsewhere. I got all of my medical supplies (I did note the absence of tourniquets, which surprised me. Isn't that something that should be included in any serious first aid kit?), bug spray, some merino wool socks, and a headlamp (which I got at a significant discount from the resupply area), as well as probably a couple other small items that I'm having a hard time recalling right now. I took photos of some of the things I know that I need, but wasn't sure about exactly what I should get. Stuff like camp stoves, hydration systems, filters, sleeping bags, sleeping pads, and mess kits. That brings me to a few new questions I have.

Regarding camp stoves, I've had a few recommendations thrown at me, most notably including the MSR Reactor (I'm told it doubles as an excellent emergency heat source), MSR Pocketrocker (small and compact), and the Solo Stove Lite (runs off of organic fuel so no need to carry around a fuel tank, you just stuff it full of sticks and twigs and you're good to go). I'm open to opinions or suggestions.

For hydration systems, I'm leaning towards a 3L Camelbak with an in-line Sawyer filter. I've also got iodine tablets to use as a backup filtration method. I saw a few different brands of hydration packs at REI, but I couldn't tell any real difference. I'm leaning towards Camelbak because it was the cheapest option. Is this the right way to go?

As for tents, I'm still undecided on what sort I should get. I definitely want something that will be suitable for 1-2 people and compact enough to stuff inside my pack or attach to the outside without adding too much bulk. There are just sooo many options out there, it's honestly a bit overwhelming. I'd also prefer to get something with a natural color that will blend into the environment, which seems to be uncommon amongst the typically bright colors on offer (I understand the reason and benefit of the high-vis colors, but it's just not what I'm looking for. I don't want to be seen unless I want to be seen.

Tl;dr - Definitely making progress, still open to suggestions though!

lifeandlimb

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Re: Mustachian Gear for the Great Outdoors
« Reply #31 on: June 13, 2022, 01:44:14 PM »
Nice!

I second @Radagast 's suggestion above for a tent that can be constructed with your trekking poles. That's really handy and will save on some bulk.
If you don't like that, I think Big Agnes and Marmot makes nice tents in subtle colors. The REI Half/Quarter-Dome, as mentioned, is good too.

You might want to think hard about how important comfort and space is to you in your tent, and whether you plan to share it. A big or tall person will fill up a 2-person tent pretty much completely. Two people can share a 2-person backpacking tent (especially if they're petite), but there will be no room for belongings or moving around.

Camelbak is a really good value option for hydration packs. Gregory makes nice ones, too, that can be easier to clean, but that might not matter much.

Tourniquets, like splints, can be made quickly out of other material, so I wouldn't worry about that for the first aid kit. :)

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Re: Mustachian Gear for the Great Outdoors
« Reply #32 on: June 13, 2022, 02:06:24 PM »
For days trips it doesn’t matter much, any old backpack will work just fine.

For water, just buy a cheap bottle or bottles of water in your favorite sizes from a grocery store or gas station and then reuse them forever. They are just as durable as any water bottle, a tiny fraction of the weight and cost. The “smart water” https://www.target.com/p/smartwater-1-l-bottle/-/A-12953554#lnk=sametab bottles have threads compatible with the https://www.rei.com/product/103050/sawyer-squeeze-water-filter-system water filter and I think conventional 2-liter bottles also do. https://www.rei.com/product/890900/sawyer-mini-water-filter is the lightest water filter.

The lightest and least expensive light duty stove is a cat can stove (or potted meat product if you don’t know any cats) https://andrewskurka.com/how-to-make-a-fancy-feast-alcohol-stove/

I just read that article for the cat food can stove, that's pretty damn cool and I definitely want to try it. I'd be a little concerned about accidentally crushing the can and then being without a stove though. I'm also curious how much heat this gives off, and how much fuel you would need to carry to use it over multiple days. One of the things I like about the MSI Reactor is that by all accounts it can function effectively as a mini space heater if you need to warm up quickly. It also has a bit more versatility in regards to what you can do with it. The cat can stove has no temperature control and doesn't accommodate smaller or larger pots without modification. 

I do get where you're coming from with the water bottle method as well. I've definitely been leaning towards a Camelbak system just because it seems like the easiest method (not having to dig a bottle out of my pack whenever I want to take a drink), but the simplicity and cost efficacy of a simple water bottle method does certainly have its merits.

Askel

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Re: Mustachian Gear for the Great Outdoors
« Reply #33 on: June 13, 2022, 02:24:34 PM »
I've spent a significant portion of my life since a teenager outdoors on foot/skis/bicycles/kayaks etc. 

My one piece of advice: Don't get too hung up on gear.

It doesn't matter. At all.  Just get out there and sort things out with what you have. 

My best trips have always been the ones where I just put together whatever I had for gear and made it work.  You might not stay as dry or go as far or as fast as other people, but it's part of the fun. 

Fit whatever you can in whatever backpack you can find. Fill some 2L pop bottles with water. Eat food that doesn't require cooking.  Sleep under the stars.   

Over the years, I've come to acquire a couple key pieces of really nice kit that allow me to do things I otherwise might not be able to do, but I still much prefer to just make whatever I have work to do the thing I want to do.   

And you can completely avoid the rat race of gear nerds always running the same treadmill trying to find the "best" whatever for something (but keep in touch with them, because they're a great source for cheap gear when it becomes unfashionable for whatever reason). 

kite

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Re: Mustachian Gear for the Great Outdoors
« Reply #34 on: June 13, 2022, 03:08:41 PM »
I'm a fan of trail runners.

Ask on your local buy-nothing group to borrow.  You'll have a better sense of what to buy AFTER you've had a trip or two.  We're old, never gonna camp again, and I'd gladly have loaned or given any of our gear to anyone.  I did lend it out, hoping that it wouldn't come back.  No such luck.  Not only that, I wound up with an extra tarp, ground cloth and tent stakes. 

Valley of Plenty

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Re: Mustachian Gear for the Great Outdoors
« Reply #35 on: June 13, 2022, 03:42:35 PM »
I'm a fan of trail runners.

Ask on your local buy-nothing group to borrow.  You'll have a better sense of what to buy AFTER you've had a trip or two.  We're old, never gonna camp again, and I'd gladly have loaned or given any of our gear to anyone.  I did lend it out, hoping that it wouldn't come back.  No such luck.  Not only that, I wound up with an extra tarp, ground cloth and tent stakes.

I wish that I had a local buy nothing group. Unfortunately, there's really nowhere around here to borrow gear from strangers. Even craiglist / FB marketplace are bread crumbs and cobwebs out here. I will continue looking for deals on used gear locally, but it's typically pretty scarce.

bacchi

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Re: Mustachian Gear for the Great Outdoors
« Reply #36 on: June 13, 2022, 06:40:07 PM »
+1 on renting. Many REI stores rent tents, stoves, and fuel bottles (always test/set up at home!).

They also rent bear canisters, which you might need in the Allegheny NF.

https://www.rei.com/stores/rentals

Metta

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Re: Mustachian Gear for the Great Outdoors
« Reply #37 on: June 13, 2022, 07:06:10 PM »
First, I am as much of a fan of REI as everyone else, but something I didn’t know until years after I’d bought my gear was that I could have rented gear from my local college even without being a student there. This can be especially good for tents. Here is the outdoor gear rental from the State College near you. https://studentaffairs.psu.edu/campusrec/programs/outdoor-adventures/gear-rental

That way you can take a little time before buying a tent (and find one on sale as I did with my Big Agnes).

Radagast

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Re: Mustachian Gear for the Great Outdoors
« Reply #38 on: June 13, 2022, 07:31:31 PM »
For days trips it doesn’t matter much, any old backpack will work just fine.

For water, just buy a cheap bottle or bottles of water in your favorite sizes from a grocery store or gas station and then reuse them forever. They are just as durable as any water bottle, a tiny fraction of the weight and cost. The “smart water” https://www.target.com/p/smartwater-1-l-bottle/-/A-12953554#lnk=sametab bottles have threads compatible with the https://www.rei.com/product/103050/sawyer-squeeze-water-filter-system water filter and I think conventional 2-liter bottles also do. https://www.rei.com/product/890900/sawyer-mini-water-filter is the lightest water filter.

The lightest and least expensive light duty stove is a cat can stove (or potted meat product if you don’t know any cats) https://andrewskurka.com/how-to-make-a-fancy-feast-alcohol-stove/

I just read that article for the cat food can stove, that's pretty damn cool and I definitely want to try it. I'd be a little concerned about accidentally crushing the can and then being without a stove though. I'm also curious how much heat this gives off, and how much fuel you would need to carry to use it over multiple days. One of the things I like about the MSI Reactor is that by all accounts it can function effectively as a mini space heater if you need to warm up quickly. It also has a bit more versatility in regards to what you can do with it. The cat can stove has no temperature control and doesn't accommodate smaller or larger pots without modification. 

I do get where you're coming from with the water bottle method as well. I've definitely been leaning towards a Camelbak system just because it seems like the easiest method (not having to dig a bottle out of my pack whenever I want to take a drink), but the simplicity and cost efficacy of a simple water bottle method does certainly have its merits.
Preface to information and rants. Some people bag peaks or section hike or kayak. I decided to make tea from every lake in my local mountain range, and with the trips for that, general backpacking, weeks of wilderness archery hunting, and general use for hiking just for fun I have a couple hundred uses on my super cat stove. I even used it snowshoeing in 0F temps once, just flopped into a snow drift and took in the scenery while it boiled. I love it and my GSI kettle and my only regret is how little use either has gotten.

The ethanol burns and makes heat, just not as much as gas. I stepped on and crushed mine once, it is aluminum, I just squashed it back into shape and it worked just as well. Looked a little squashed still though so i made a new one when I got home. Mmmm potted meat product.

You need about 1oz fuel to conservatively and reliably boil 16oz water, or to unconservatively boil 1qt water or at least make it hot enough to disinfect it and be quite painful. Not much nuance, just fill the stove to the bottom of the holes, catch it on fire, and take the pot off when it goes out. Figure 2 stove burns a day, multiply your trip days by 2, you need that many ounces. Never confuse your denatured alcohol bottle with your vodka bottle or water bottle (since you are using cheap grocery store bottles for all of these).

Most backpacking meals consist of boiling water to rehydrate dried food, or to make hot drinks, so it works great for that. Most backpacking stoves are tippy, slidy, and narrow and not great for cooking anything fancy, and doing dishes sucks, so frying eggs or whatever is not common. Also the cat can stove doesn't put out too much heat so there isn't really a reason to throttle it. That said, some people make a dedicated "simmer stove" with just a single ring of holes and bring it along side. Two cat can stoves is not a great increase in cost or weight.

Holy crap you want a heavy $270 stove? You are being sold a load of something smellier than denatured alcohol. Maybe for a shoulder season solo Yukon mountain wilderness adventure.

Backpacking stoves are efficient and don't put out a lot of waste heat, so make poor space heaters. What space are you gonna heat, your tent? If you aren't careful you are as likely to melt a hole in it, burn it down, or asphyxiate yourself. A more common and better emergency use is to boil water to ingest (it does the most good on the inside) or to fill a water bottle with boiling water and put it in your sleeping bag wrapped in a spare shirt or sock or something. So not much advantage there either.

Essentially every backpack made in decades has a water bottle pocket on each side, and some also have them on the shoulder straps or hip belt. You will be doing something other than hiking 20 hours per day so you have plenty of time to take a 5s sip, adnt that would be true even if doing 16 hours per day.

When I was a young consuma sucka I carefully researched the ultimate hydration bladder, and proudly took it with me backpacking. On the first day I set it down on a prickly bush while I was filtering water and it sprouted a giant leak. I didn't have a spare. Since then, I have believed in always having a spare, and only using cheap plastic water bottles. I favor smartwater bottles or 2 liter soda bottles because they fit the threads on my Sawyer water filter. My smartwater have been dropped on rocks, branches, prickles, and everything, often from height, and have curiously never leaked even once. They are so dirty and beat up that other people won't drink from them.

Camelbacks:
leak if not treated carefully
expensive
heavy
inferior

Cheap plastic bottles:
don't leak
cheap
light
fit Sawyer walter filter threads for certain bottles
superior

Return the camelback


Valley of Plenty

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Re: Mustachian Gear for the Great Outdoors
« Reply #40 on: June 14, 2022, 06:14:43 AM »
For days trips it doesn’t matter much, any old backpack will work just fine.

For water, just buy a cheap bottle or bottles of water in your favorite sizes from a grocery store or gas station and then reuse them forever. They are just as durable as any water bottle, a tiny fraction of the weight and cost. The “smart water” https://www.target.com/p/smartwater-1-l-bottle/-/A-12953554#lnk=sametab bottles have threads compatible with the https://www.rei.com/product/103050/sawyer-squeeze-water-filter-system water filter and I think conventional 2-liter bottles also do. https://www.rei.com/product/890900/sawyer-mini-water-filter is the lightest water filter.

The lightest and least expensive light duty stove is a cat can stove (or potted meat product if you don’t know any cats) https://andrewskurka.com/how-to-make-a-fancy-feast-alcohol-stove/

I just read that article for the cat food can stove, that's pretty damn cool and I definitely want to try it. I'd be a little concerned about accidentally crushing the can and then being without a stove though. I'm also curious how much heat this gives off, and how much fuel you would need to carry to use it over multiple days. One of the things I like about the MSI Reactor is that by all accounts it can function effectively as a mini space heater if you need to warm up quickly. It also has a bit more versatility in regards to what you can do with it. The cat can stove has no temperature control and doesn't accommodate smaller or larger pots without modification. 

I do get where you're coming from with the water bottle method as well. I've definitely been leaning towards a Camelbak system just because it seems like the easiest method (not having to dig a bottle out of my pack whenever I want to take a drink), but the simplicity and cost efficacy of a simple water bottle method does certainly have its merits.
Preface to information and rants. Some people bag peaks or section hike or kayak. I decided to make tea from every lake in my local mountain range, and with the trips for that, general backpacking, weeks of wilderness archery hunting, and general use for hiking just for fun I have a couple hundred uses on my super cat stove. I even used it snowshoeing in 0F temps once, just flopped into a snow drift and took in the scenery while it boiled. I love it and my GSI kettle and my only regret is how little use either has gotten.

The ethanol burns and makes heat, just not as much as gas. I stepped on and crushed mine once, it is aluminum, I just squashed it back into shape and it worked just as well. Looked a little squashed still though so i made a new one when I got home. Mmmm potted meat product.

You need about 1oz fuel to conservatively and reliably boil 16oz water, or to unconservatively boil 1qt water or at least make it hot enough to disinfect it and be quite painful. Not much nuance, just fill the stove to the bottom of the holes, catch it on fire, and take the pot off when it goes out. Figure 2 stove burns a day, multiply your trip days by 2, you need that many ounces. Never confuse your denatured alcohol bottle with your vodka bottle or water bottle (since you are using cheap grocery store bottles for all of these).

Most backpacking meals consist of boiling water to rehydrate dried food, or to make hot drinks, so it works great for that. Most backpacking stoves are tippy, slidy, and narrow and not great for cooking anything fancy, and doing dishes sucks, so frying eggs or whatever is not common. Also the cat can stove doesn't put out too much heat so there isn't really a reason to throttle it. That said, some people make a dedicated "simmer stove" with just a single ring of holes and bring it along side. Two cat can stoves is not a great increase in cost or weight.

Holy crap you want a heavy $270 stove? You are being sold a load of something smellier than denatured alcohol. Maybe for a shoulder season solo Yukon mountain wilderness adventure.

Backpacking stoves are efficient and don't put out a lot of waste heat, so make poor space heaters. What space are you gonna heat, your tent? If you aren't careful you are as likely to melt a hole in it, burn it down, or asphyxiate yourself. A more common and better emergency use is to boil water to ingest (it does the most good on the inside) or to fill a water bottle with boiling water and put it in your sleeping bag wrapped in a spare shirt or sock or something. So not much advantage there either.

Essentially every backpack made in decades has a water bottle pocket on each side, and some also have them on the shoulder straps or hip belt. You will be doing something other than hiking 20 hours per day so you have plenty of time to take a 5s sip, adnt that would be true even if doing 16 hours per day.

When I was a young consuma sucka I carefully researched the ultimate hydration bladder, and proudly took it with me backpacking. On the first day I set it down on a prickly bush while I was filtering water and it sprouted a giant leak. I didn't have a spare. Since then, I have believed in always having a spare, and only using cheap plastic water bottles. I favor smartwater bottles or 2 liter soda bottles because they fit the threads on my Sawyer water filter. My smartwater have been dropped on rocks, branches, prickles, and everything, often from height, and have curiously never leaked even once. They are so dirty and beat up that other people won't drink from them.

Camelbacks:
leak if not treated carefully
expensive
heavy
inferior

Cheap plastic bottles:
don't leak
cheap
light
fit Sawyer walter filter threads for certain bottles
superior

Return the camelback

You make a lot of excellent points. I did decide after consideration yesterday that I'm going to start with the cat can stove and upgrade from there only if there's a reason to. From what I can tell it seems pretty darn effective at boiling water. I will likely also pick up the cheaper version of the Pocketrocket that kpd905 suggested, so I have something to take along if I want to do cooking that requires more than just boiling water. $12 is a pretty reasonable price point for that added functionality. As for the MSI Reactor, I can definitely see value in it for more extreme winter hikes, but since I won't be doing anything like that any time soon it really wouldn't make sense to buy it now.

Regarding fuel for the can stove, is there a reason I'd want to use denatured alcohol as opposed to isopropyl? I had never heard of denatured alcohol before, and some quick research has me thinking that they are mostly the same? I assume it would be fine to use either, but presumably one is cheaper and/or has more versatility as a disinfectant?

I haven't actually bought a Camelbak yet, and I am now seriously reconsidering the purchase. When you say you attach a Sawyer filter directly to the bottle, what kind of filter do you mean? Is it the sort that filters the water as you drink it, or do you pump water through it to purify it as the bottle is being filled? I've never used a filter before so I'm still rather unclear on the different types and how they function.

Valley of Plenty

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Re: Mustachian Gear for the Great Outdoors
« Reply #41 on: June 14, 2022, 06:21:42 AM »
First, I am as much of a fan of REI as everyone else, but something I didn’t know until years after I’d bought my gear was that I could have rented gear from my local college even without being a student there. This can be especially good for tents. Here is the outdoor gear rental from the State College near you. https://studentaffairs.psu.edu/campusrec/programs/outdoor-adventures/gear-rental

That way you can take a little time before buying a tent (and find one on sale as I did with my Big Agnes).

Holy crap, thanks for this!

Only issue I see is their selection of gear is pretty limited, so I won't really be able to try out different types of gear before making a purchase decision. Still, this is definitely a great resource and I expect I will take advantage of it.

Valley of Plenty

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Re: Mustachian Gear for the Great Outdoors
« Reply #42 on: June 14, 2022, 06:25:54 AM »
+1 on renting. Many REI stores rent tents, stoves, and fuel bottles (always test/set up at home!).

They also rent bear canisters, which you might need in the Allegheny NF.

https://www.rei.com/stores/rentals

Unfortunately it looks like the nearest REI that does rentals is nearly 4 hours away for me. That's gonna be a deal breaker

svosavvy

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Re: Mustachian Gear for the Great Outdoors
« Reply #43 on: June 14, 2022, 07:46:11 AM »
You already have a lot of great advice.  Here's one more.  Don't buy plastic sporks, they suck and they break.  I don't care if the plastic was made in Finland or China or wherever they always break and then you are eating your food with your fingers. Bought a quality bamboo spork years ago and it is still with me, can't kill it.  You can cook and eat with it.

Valley of Plenty

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Re: Mustachian Gear for the Great Outdoors
« Reply #44 on: June 14, 2022, 08:12:52 AM »
You already have a lot of great advice.  Here's one more.  Don't buy plastic sporks, they suck and they break.  I don't care if the plastic was made in Finland or China or wherever they always break and then you are eating your food with your fingers. Bought a quality bamboo spork years ago and it is still with me, can't kill it.  You can cook and eat with it.

I saw titanium ones at REI for like $5, seemed like the way to go. I definitely wouldn't trust plastic either

Askel

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Re: Mustachian Gear for the Great Outdoors
« Reply #45 on: June 14, 2022, 09:10:19 AM »
You already have a lot of great advice.  Here's one more.  Don't buy plastic sporks, they suck and they break.  I don't care if the plastic was made in Finland or China or wherever they always break and then you are eating your food with your fingers. Bought a quality bamboo spork years ago and it is still with me, can't kill it.  You can cook and eat with it.

This is gear nerdery at it's absolute finest. You do not need a backpacking specific bamboo spork.   

Just grab a spoon out of your silverware drawer.

If your home silverware drawer is filled with bamboo sporks though, I apologize.  :D 

CNM

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Re: Mustachian Gear for the Great Outdoors
« Reply #46 on: June 14, 2022, 09:12:20 AM »
One other thing, I would not get too caught up in the gear until you've had a few hikes/one-night overnights.  I used to be a huge outdoor gear-head but, over time, I have realized that a lot of the bells and whistles are not really all that necessary.  It's only the multi-day & difficult weather/terrain backpacking trips where I feel like it makes a difference. 

As a beginner starting with day hiking, all you really need is a map, shoes, a cell phone (for photo taking and emergencies) and a small backpack with a water bottle & a snack. Maybe throw a few first aid items like band aids in case you get a blister.  Let someone know where you are going and start off on well-known and well-traveled trails.

If you decide you like all day hiking and want to try backpacking, that is when I'd start looking for entry-level gear like a one-person 3-season tent, backpacking backpack, and sleeping pad & bag.  Maybe a water filter (although where I live, it's a much better bet to bring your water because water sources are scarce) and a camp stove & mess kit.  Honestly, for my short overnights, i usually pack already made food - sandwiches, fruit, etc- because it's easier than cooking in the bush, and having to deal with trash, washing dirty dishes, & the stove. 

The good news is that it seems like the cost of new outdoor gear, especially apparel!, has really come down over the years.  I remember when things like a backpacking backpack were hard to find and were really expensive!
« Last Edit: June 14, 2022, 09:19:24 AM by CNM »

CNM

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Re: Mustachian Gear for the Great Outdoors
« Reply #47 on: June 14, 2022, 09:17:25 AM »
You already have a lot of great advice.  Here's one more.  Don't buy plastic sporks, they suck and they break.  I don't care if the plastic was made in Finland or China or wherever they always break and then you are eating your food with your fingers. Bought a quality bamboo spork years ago and it is still with me, can't kill it.  You can cook and eat with it.

This is gear nerdery at it's absolute finest. You do not need a backpacking specific bamboo spork.   

Just grab a spoon out of your silverware drawer.

If your home silverware drawer is filled with bamboo sporks though, I apologize.  :D

LOL Yes, this is totally true. I usually pack pre-made finger foods (sandwiches) to avoid having to haul a stove & mess kit, but if I really need silverware, I often just grab something out of the drawer.  But, like you say, I do have several camping sporks (often that I have received as gifts) in my regular kitchen silverware drawer! The kids like to use them for everyday eating.

There is a lot of specialty gear out there.  A lot of it is very cool and neat.  I wouldn't bother with any of it unless, after having gone hiking and camping a lot, you decide you need it.  Or, maybe it's just a fun thing to have and play with! which is fine, but not necessarily "required" equipment.

thesis

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Re: Mustachian Gear for the Great Outdoors
« Reply #48 on: June 14, 2022, 09:22:45 AM »
It might be useful to think in terms of utility, too. For example, a good pair of boots that fit your feet really well will be useful for hiking, camping, backpacking, snowshoeing, and just walking around in the winter. Things like a tent will only probably be used during the summer, or possibly spring and fall, if you really want 3-season flexibility. Snowshoes of course are only useful for deeper snow, and backpacking gear will likely only be a 1-3 season deal, too.

From this perspective, the best gear is often the gear that is most versatile. Think of it like kitchen utensils - it's sometimes wise to buy a really good knife set because it's so incredibly versatile (though some might argue technique is more important), while you want to be really, really careful you don't fill your cupboards up with one-use items that rarely see the light of day. Likewise, the best outdoor gear is whatever is useful enough to get used a lot.

I would also vouch for renting, something I wish I had done. Finding the right backpack, for example, can be a real chore and requires a lot of trial and error. Backpacking specifically has cost me a lot of money because I keep learning about what I prefer and what I don't. Some of these backpacking gurus on YouTube get sent gear for free all the time, so they're able to "fine tune" what they really like, but for the rest of us, it's easy for this to turn into a money-pit of a hobby. Ultimately, I learned I just don't backpack very much, so I'm no longer actively looking for new gear for that sort of thing.

I can't emphasize enough how important solid comfortable boots/shoes are. I paid around $250 for mine and I love them. It was worth it for me, and they get used quite a lot, but of course you might find shoes/boots that do the job for you but for much less. I also have a 4-season sleeping bag that finally allows me to simply be comfortable. It was expensive, and I wish I had bought it first, after trying many cheaper alternatives, but the catch-22 is that you often don't know what you want until you try things out.

lifeandlimb

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Re: Mustachian Gear for the Great Outdoors
« Reply #49 on: June 14, 2022, 09:24:37 AM »
I don't know if this is true of anyone else, but every time I've bought a camping eating utensil or plateware, I've lost one, so I agree...either grab one from your drawer or hoard a couple from your local takeout spot and reuse those until you lose 'em.