The Money Mustache Community
Learning, Sharing, and Teaching => Ask a Mustachian => Topic started by: MayDay on March 19, 2015, 12:58:53 PM
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We have some very old carpet in high traffic areas (main hallway, entryway, dining room) that is beyond being cleaned, it needs to be replaced. We would prefer hard surface flooring for various reasons. We are going to attempt selling our house shortly, and anticipate definitely selling within a year, so resale is a huge concern.
To give you an idea of the house, it's a 4 bed, 3 bath, 2600 sq ft, 12 years old, in a neighborhood in a neighborhood that attracts lots of families with kids due to the good schools. Most of the houses are not Fancy but they do tend to be pretty nice on account of their new-ness- most people have nicer stainless steel kitchen appliances, half probably have granite countertops, half have wood flooring in at least some of the house (but carpet in the rest due to cost), etc.
We are looking at putting either an engineered hardwood or wood-look vinyl planking in the entryway, hallway, and dining room. We would also put it in the half bath (off the hallway) for continuity. If we do vinyl, we would put it in the laundry room (off the hallway).
If I was staying in the house forever, I would put in the vinyl for sure. It looks dang good, I think you have to really be looking to tell it's vinyl. H thinks you can tell, but again, we are examining closely. And it's basically indestructible. And it's cheaper. Win-win.
But we are worried that since we do plan to sell, people will see "real" wood as desirable, and vinyl as neutral.
Cost breakdown and details:
Wood: Shaw heartland SW207, 3.65$ per square foot.
Vinyl: Shaw Chatham plank, 0144V, retail is $4.25/sqft but we'd go with a stock color for 3$/sq ft.
With install (not that handy, sorry, and this is not a project I have any interest in learning on!) it comes to 3000$ for the wood and 2400$ for the vinyl. If we carpeted instead it would be $2200.
ETA: We are considering only the options presented. I hate ceramic tile and laminate (Pergo) looks and wears worse than vinyl IMO. Feel free to discuss them for your own enjoyment or to convince others who may read this post ;) but I'm not likely to change my mind.
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You don't say where you are so I don't know what is being tracked in. Here where boots come in with snow/mud on them for months of the year, it is nice to have ceramic tile for entryways. Easy to clean, low wear.
Same for bathrooms - tile is the obvious choice because it is water-proof. Second choice for bathrooms would be vinyl.
Hallways - depends on what they connect to, how much wear they get. Close to entries, I would still go for ceramic tile, second choice would be hardwood. Hardwood wears well if well sealed, and can be sanded and refinished down the road. This is a big selling point as well. If the hallway is on the way to the bedrooms, I would go with hardwood or carpet.
Dining room - formal room - hardwood. Eating area off the kitchen - tile or vinyl.
My present area is not high-end houses - we are a mix of old farmhouses and newer ordinary houses (i.e. not granite counter tops). But most flooring here is ceramic tile and hardwood. Of course we do have winter to deal with.
General thoughts - you mention selling down the road, and most people want ease of maintenance, which is why I am suggesting ceramic tile and hardwood. Carpets are less popular because they hold dust, and are harder to keep clean, especially in a household with children and/or pets.
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I don't know where you are located, but have you considered tile? We're going to be putting wood plank-look tile in our house and holy cow does some of that stuff look good. Way nicer than vinyl and lower maintenance than wood. We're looking at $2-$3/sqft for the tile, plus install supplies for us to do the work.
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But we are worried that since we do plan to sell, people will see "real" wood as desirable, and vinyl as neutral.
Speaking as someone with no experience (i.e. "first time home buyer"), I would agree with this, especially reading your description of the types of homes in your area. I might even go a step further and say wood-looking vinyl would seem undesirable/cheap. That's just my gut reaction.
The suggestion of ceramic tile for the entryway is great - it's probably also a small area, so it wouldn't be a huge cost while adding a great first impression.
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You don't say where you are so I don't know what is being tracked in. Here where boots come in with snow/mud on them for months of the year, it is nice to have ceramic tile for entryways. Easy to clean, low wear.
Same for bathrooms - tile is the obvious choice because it is water-proof. Second choice for bathrooms would be vinyl.
Hallways - depends on what they connect to, how much wear they get. Close to entries, I would still go for ceramic tile, second choice would be hardwood. Hardwood wears well if well sealed, and can be sanded and refinished down the road. This is a big selling point as well. If the hallway is on the way to the bedrooms, I would go with hardwood or carpet.
Dining room - formal room - hardwood. Eating area off the kitchen - tile or vinyl.
My present area is not high-end houses - we are a mix of old farmhouses and newer ordinary houses (i.e. not granite counter tops). But most flooring here is ceramic tile and hardwood. Of course we do have winter to deal with.
General thoughts - you mention selling down the road, and most people want ease of maintenance, which is why I am suggesting ceramic tile and hardwood. Carpets are less popular because they hold dust, and are harder to keep clean, especially in a household with children and/or pets.
Ohio- so snow and salt/sand is tracked in in the winter. Doesn't stop people from having wood though!
Ceramic tile is not an option for me, I strongly dislike it. I hate how hard it is, I hate how it chips if you drop something like a heavy pot on it (our last kitchen had ceramic tile, and I broke a few), I hate how dirty the grout gets, and I dislike how it looks in general. I realize we hope to move soon, but I'd be pissed if we put in tile and then ended up staying for some reason. Also, it is not done much in our neighborhood, I don't know if that is because it is more expensive or because it is not in style here.
I know hardwood isn't great for a bathroom, but it's a powder room, and in our neighborhood, almost all houses with wood in the entry area put the wood through into the powder room.
The layout of the rooms is dining room (it is "formal") to entry way to hallway. All in a row. The hallway has 4 doors with a powder room, laundry/garage, basement, and bedroom coming off it, so it's high traffic. The laundry room is currently vinyl and will be left vinyl if we do the wood. It will be switched to wood vinyl if we pick that.
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Would you consider laminate? Like Pergo?
I used it in one home that we've owned for 12 years. 7 years of tenants (and their pets- ours included) and absolutely zero issues. .79 cents a square foot.
You can buy this stuff at Home Depot or Lowes. Click lock install is DIY.
Is it as nice as the hardwood? No. But, it's pretty nice for less than a buck a sq ft.
Just another option. (still better than carpet)
Tile is my overall preference but that gets pricey if you do it right. (all "water" rooms get tile- bathrooms, laundry room, and kitchen)
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3 votes for ceramic so far, I would not have guessed that! Seems out of step with my area, no one does tile. It's either the builder basic vinyl or wood (of some kind).
The dining room is 12x12, the entryway is 8x10, so not particularly small. The hallway is maybe 15-20 feet long, I don't have the measurements in front of me.
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Would you consider laminate? Like Pergo?
We had some in our old house and a rental house. I thought it looked cheap and fake. I think the vinyl looks way better and will wear better. We made multiple little bubbles in the laminate from spills and accidents.
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Would you consider laminate? Like Pergo?
We had some in our old house and a rental house. I thought it looked cheap and fake. I think the vinyl looks way better and will wear better. We made multiple little bubbles in the laminate from spills and accidents.
Have you had vinyl before? I've had vinyl in my kitchen growing up, in my last rental, and my current rental. I'm not a fan of it in kitchens due to accidents like dropping a knife or something sharp, but maybe I'm just really clumsy.
We have sheet vinyl currently in our kitchen, entryways, and bathrooms. I love it. Yes the kitchen has a few nicks, but they don't bother me compared to all the advantages.
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Re kitchens, some ceramic tiles are stronger than others. You have to be clear about the intended use when you buy it. I do like good vinyl (not trying to look like wood) in kitchens, it is easier on the feet.
In entry halls, nothing usually is being dropped that would hurt the ceramic. And it is easy to damp mop and get the salt.
I find laminate shows everything - when I had a laminate kitchen floor and we were selling, I had to wipe it all the time, every dog paw-print showed.
Formal dining room - hardwood. And felt on the bottom of the chair legs so they don't scratch the finish.
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Would you consider laminate? Like Pergo?
We had some in our old house and a rental house. I thought it looked cheap and fake. I think the vinyl looks way better and will wear better. We made multiple little bubbles in the laminate from spills and accidents.
Have you had vinyl before? I've had vinyl in my kitchen growing up, in my last rental, and my current rental. I'm not a fan of it in kitchens due to accidents like dropping a knife or something sharp, but maybe I'm just really clumsy.
We have sheet vinyl currently in our kitchen, entryways, and bathrooms. I love it. Yes the kitchen has a few nicks, but they don't bother me compared to all the advantages.
Haha, I had actually deleted this comment shortly after I wrote it because I realized I had probably or definitely confused vinyl with laminate...but apparently it was still seen! Then I did research on the differences...and was still confused...because apparently there are so many types...so then I actually looked up the types you posted...
Revising my opinion (again, representing "first time homeowner"): The hardwood would have an advantage probably in name only - "Oooh, hardwood!" but that can still be powerful.
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Ooh. Ohio and a hardwood entry. I shudder.
Here is why. Back in the old days, folks would put unfinished hardwood in their entryway. Then they would stain it. Then they would put on a surface of polyurethane. The floor would seal up and last forever, and the hardwood entry would look great. If you are doing this, skip ahead and ignore the rest of this paragraph. Today, instead of all those extra steps, folks buy prefinished hardwood or laminate, or engineered product, set it in place and forget it. Because it is prefinished, and there is no onsite finishing, there is nothing to seal the spaces between the boards. Once the weather gets to teh boards and they start to expand/contract (all hardwood does) the gaps between the boards will open in the winter and close in the summer. This means that all your salt, snow, etc. will pool in the tiny spaces between the boards, then get trapped for the summer, being let out again the next winter.
My inlaws had their entry redone about 5 years ago with some beautiful pale oak. Now every space between the boards is turning black. Its just what happens when hardwood is used in a high moisture area like an entryspace.
Because of this I would suggest you look into a product like vinyl or tile for the entry space.
For the rest of the house, I L-O-V-E love hardwood. A lot. Plus you can do the hardwood flooring install yourself. The cost of tools will be less than the cost of the install, and its really not hard or technical. I mean, I was able to figure it out and I'm not nearly as smart as you. In order of hardest to easiest I would rank flooring thusly:
- Linoleum/Vinyl/Sheet goods
- Carpet
- Tile
- Hardwood/Engineered Hardwood
- Laminate
- Throw rugs over subfloor
The reason Linoleum and Carpet are at the top of my list is because one slip of the knife and you have to order a whole new piece of linoleum/carpet. I leave them to the pros. Tile I just hate to do. Its messy and comes out too hilly for my tastes. But everything below tile is fair game as DIY. And its way easier than you think. I detailed a recent hardwood install on my blog. At the risk of spamming the forum, here's the link: http://frosthaus.blogspot.ca/2015/02/installing-hardwood-flooring.html
Your hardwood prices would includ delivery/install around here. Unless you have a super premium wood or something I would shop around a little. I found Bruce hardwood to be reliable, easily sourced, and priced fairly. You can get it both at Home Despot and your local flooring places.
I am now doing trim work and continuing on to do the hallway in our place. If you want a hand thinking through this, feel free to ask.
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I bought my first house last year, and it has wood-look vinyl in the kitchen/dining/living great room area, which also contains both entries. It's a 1500 sq ft ranch so we're probably not quite as fancy as the first time buyers that would be targeting your area ;) When we first viewed the house, I thought the vinyl was hardwood -- it looked great!
However, now I kind of hate it. It takes a beating (we have 2 large dogs and we're in New England -- lots of wet & dirt tracks in) and the wear is showing -- there's gaps showing up between some of the "boards" and it kind of looks like it's starting to peel at the edges of some "boards." I have no idea how old it is, though I think the previous owners redid the kitchen around 2010. I also have no idea of the quality.
The bathroom has sheet vinyl that looks remarkably like hardwood though and I'm super happy with it. My parents are redoing a bathroom at some point in the near future and my mom was so impressed with it that she wants to use the same type of thing in theirs.
I'm not sure how the sheet vinyl would work in a larger space but it is really nice in a bathroom. I would strongly recommend it for your bathroom and/or entryways :)
Have you thought about the newer tiles that have come out recently, the ones that look like hardwood? I don't know if they're ceramic or a different type that you might be more amenable to.
Edit: I was confused as to what type of flooring I have xD Google tells me it's wood-look vinyl, I thought it was laminate. Oops!
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I also hate ceramic tile - so hard, so noisy - cleaning is a pain.
Ok - i vote hardwood. I have hardwood in my entire house w/ the exception of the bathrooms. Bathrooms need tile, IMO, due to the issue of possible tub and toilets overflowing. I haven't had any problems w/ wood in my kitchen - I love it. To me wood looks warm, homey, welcoming.
I do not like the idea of a vinyl wood look floor - but I have never seen one. It sound like it might look cheap.
What about regular wood floor finished on site?
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I have seen the vinyl wood planks, and it looks really good. My mom had some put in her kitchen and a powder room and you couldn't tell unless walking barefoot (it was more forgiving than wood). I personally think it's a step up from laminate (which is essentially a photocopy of a hardwood grain on a crappy base - looks okay until it doesn't and wears poorly). I don't know about the wear factor, but caliq has a point about the planks might be prone to peeling up... so I'd also check into that and make sure to have extra to replace damaged ones.
I have engineered hardwood through all of my house (a very expensive one that is hand scraped and all fancy) but I would NEVER put it in a kitchen, bathroom or near an entry that sees lots of water/grit coming in the door. Engineered hardwood is basically a thin veneer of real wood over several layers of cross-layout fiberboard/chipboard construction (alternating directions of the base wood and then pressure/glued together for better stability). It will react better than straight up hardwood as far as swelling/shrinkage due to how it is constructed, but it will still be affected by water and grit and you can't sand it unless it's very thick veneer.
So my vote would be for sheet vinyl in a wood look (first choice) or the plank vinyl, if you can get a guarantee from the installer that the planks won't peel up or have other issues for at least 5-10 years.
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I'm facing almost the same problem and I'd really like to hear how the vinyl plank holds up over time. I also hate ceramic and need/want something more indestructible in the rooms with exterior doors - which in my case includes the kitchen.
Just to look at it, I think the vinyl plank looks fantastic and I'm leaning strongly toward it - it's much better than any laminate.
I perhaps unfairly want you to try the plank so you can report back about how it went! (My project is currently on hold until I've dealt with a different expensive home project.)
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Have you considered bamboo? We redid the whole house several years ago. Very tough - doesn't scratch with the dog who tore up the hardwood - and relatively inexpensive, at least compared to hardwood. We used Cali Bamboo - great product, no formaldehyde. Still looks great.
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I think wood is going to be much more appealing to potential buyers than vinyl.
But why engineered instead of hardwood? You can get your basic oak for about the same price (or could last time I was replacing flooring) and can refinish it multiple times.
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I am a huge fan of vinyl planks. I used them in my last house when I replaced a lot of old carpet and it was probably the best decision I could have made. I think they look awesome, I never worried about damage, and cleaning was easy.
Tile is ok, but probably not popular in OH outside of bathrooms and maybe kitchens.
If you plan to sell soon, I wouldn't pay the extra for the engineered wood. You will never re-coup that cost.
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Have you considered bamboo? We redid the whole house several years ago. Very tough - doesn't scratch with the dog who tore up the hardwood - and relatively inexpensive, at least compared to hardwood. We used Cali Bamboo - great product, no formaldehyde. Still looks great.
Do you have any of their stuff on stairs? We did one room with their bamboo, and that finish is super slippery; I had wanted to do more of the house, but now I'm worried about how slick it would be on the steps.
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Have you considered bamboo? We redid the whole house several years ago. Very tough - doesn't scratch with the dog who tore up the hardwood - and relatively inexpensive, at least compared to hardwood. We used Cali Bamboo - great product, no formaldehyde. Still looks great.
I think the bamboo finish is dependent on a few things - product quality (I am not familiar with any particular brands), installation and finish - the same as any other flooring product. I say this because like the other poster, I have found that the bamboo the PO installed in our hallway is like walking on a bowling alley, it indents and scratches easily, shows everything, and has started splitting and cracking. If you can vouch for the Cali brand as a specific example of the good stuff, I'm not arguing with you.
I am about to rip out all our bamboo to replace with traditional gunstock oak.
In our previous house, the whole main floor was done in click-laminate. I whined about it when we moved in, but quickly changed my tune. Yes it was printed paper over cardboard. Yes it looked like printed paper over cardboard, but that stuff never swelled or shredded even at the leaky sliding doors. It stood up to puppy training and dog nails. It handled logs rolling out of the woodstove and the odd cinder. I have no idea what brand it was or if it was a premium product, but we were pleasantly surprised. Enough that when we did our basement bedroom, I installed some of the cheap stuff over a water resistant barrier pad, and haven't looked back.
My only issue with the click-laminate is that it too can be slippery, and show footprints etc if the light angle is bad. The stuff in our old house was textured so wasn't so bad in these areas. When installing, be sure not to put two boards with the same photocopy of wood grain next to each other.
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I would use hardwood or high quality laminate in the main areas. Use tile by doors. Even if you don't live in a snowy area, it saves SO much repair from tracked in water/mud/ etc, if you have kids or dogs especially.
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We have slate floors in our entry way, and I think they look great. I prefer natural materials when possible.
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We have hardwood (parquet) in most of the house, and vinyl in entry ways / kitchen / laundry / work areas. I agree with previous posters about getting decent vinyl. We've been very pleased, but didn't get the absolute cheapest. And I agree with you about ceramic. I had it in my last place and I was not a fan. Too much trouble to keep clean, and too easy to break / break stuff.
I've done a bunch of vinyl install (both planks and tiles) and it's quite easy. I also did a little bit of parquet (when we took out a closet) and that was also easy. I understand not wanting to take on a large flooring project as your first experience, though.
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ETA: We are considering only the options presented. I hate ceramic tile and laminate (Pergo) looks and wears worse than vinyl IMO. Feel free to discuss them for your own enjoyment or to convince others who may read this post ;) but I'm not likely to change my mind.
I don't care; I'm still going to tell you to go for solid hardwood or [ceramic|porcelain|natural stone] tile.
Vinyl is cheap. I don't care how good it looks, or how hard it is to tell; when you try to sell the house the potential buyers are going to say "Vinyl? Eww, I don't want that!" You might as well save your money and put in the stuff that comes on a roll for $0.50/square foot.
Engineered wood is decent, but can't be refinished as many times as solid hardwood. I guess if you're moving soon then it doesn't matter to you, but if you pick it over solid wood you're doing a disservice to whoever owns the home in the long run.
In other words, I agree with the recommendations for tile near exterior doors and in bathrooms, with solid hardwood everywhere else.
Cork is also an option (especially for the kitchen, where a soft-yet-water-resistant floor is desirable), but potential buyers might think it's too weird.
Now, I'm making an assumption that your neighborhood is a pretty traditional suburban sort of place. If that's not true -- if more contemporary styles are acceptable and/or there's a bunch of liberal eco-friendly hippie-type people living there -- then I'd say bamboo, cork or linoleum (not vinyl; actual linoleum made with linseed oil) would be good choices.
Have you considered bamboo? We redid the whole house several years ago. Very tough - doesn't scratch with the dog who tore up the hardwood - and relatively inexpensive, at least compared to hardwood. We used Cali Bamboo - great product, no formaldehyde. Still looks great.
I think the bamboo finish is dependent on a few things - product quality (I am not familiar with any particular brands), installation and finish - the same as any other flooring product. I say this because like the other poster, I have found that the bamboo the PO installed in our hallway is like walking on a bowling alley, it indents and scratches easily, shows everything, and has started splitting and cracking. If you can vouch for the Cali brand as a specific example of the good stuff, I'm not arguing with you.
Bamboo comes in a couple different varieties that have differing levels of hardness. It can be horizontally laminated, vertically laminated, or strand-woven, and each of those can come in either natural or carbonized. A strand-woven natural bamboo will be much stronger and more scratch-resistant than a horizontal carbonized bamboo.
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I don't care; I'm still going to tell you to go for solid hardwood or [ceramic|porcelain|natural stone] tile.
Vinyl is cheap. I don't care how good it looks, or how hard it is to tell; when you try to sell the house the potential buyers are going to say "Vinyl? Eww, I don't want that!" You might as well save your money and put in the stuff that comes on a roll for $0.50/square foot.
Engineered wood is decent, but can't be refinished as many times as solid hardwood. I guess if you're moving soon then it doesn't matter to you, but if you pick it over solid wood you're doing a disservice to whoever owns the home in the long run.
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I agree 100% . When looking at houses vinyl was a huge turn off. Maybe I am bias because I like real hardwood floors and or nice tiles. All the new cheaper alternatives look like trash to me.
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When you go with various engineered planks (and I am including engineered hardwood and Pergo style laminates) there is a huge range of products out there. Even within the Pergo brand, they have many different qualities.
From my experience, the most important thing with these is what the core is made of. If it is a wooden core or some sort of fiberglass/epoxy core, you're probably okay. If you have a paper core (it will look like wood, but it will be made of either layers of paper or very fine sawdust) -- RUN AWAY.
This is particularly true of the "click together" products.
The core is very susceptible to moisture. If your planks are not glued together, even more so. A tiny spill can soak in and make the core swell. You'll end up with cupping of the planks at the edges over time.
I had a house that I put a wide range of these products in. (It was done over time as budgets permitted.) The best stuff was the original Pergo with a wooden center/glued edges.
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+1. There's lots of variety in quality out there. You shouldn't lump all products of the same type together -- shop around.
When we bought our house, we installed a nice laminate product with varying plank lengths, no repeating patterns, and a quality thick core. It looks great, is extremely durable, and was the best balance (for us) of quality vs. price.
FWIW, when it comes to resale it's usually more important simply to be nicer than the comp next door than to have the absolute highest-end finishes. Don't go crazy on floors inappropriate for the neighborhood, as you probably won't fetch the premium you're expecting over a nice but less expensive alternative.
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I went with wood instead of vinyl because while the latter looked just as great, it isn't biodegradeable like wood (I don't believe it was recyclable either), and it felt like plastic under bare feet.
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Not economic at all unless you DIY (too much labor to pay otherwise) but traditional nailed down, sanded and finished in place hardwood is my preference. Reclaimed if you can get enough of it, even better.
I don't have any experience with other floor types other than sheet linoleum, which takes a beating but is super out of style.
I've heard good things about cork, but no experience. Minor hijack: is cork a good choice for bathrooms? Or something else that's wood/natural? I hate tile from a cleaning perspective, and it's miserably cold without radiant heating, which I really don't want to do in our upcoming remodel.
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I agree 100% . When looking at houses vinyl was a huge turn off. Maybe I am bias because I like real hardwood floors and or nice tiles. All the new cheaper alternatives look like trash to me.
I think you've hit the nail on the head there: the keyword is real. Anything that's pretending to be something it's not just looks wrong, even if it's expensive. For example, they make ceramic tile that looks like wooden planks now. Even though it's just as good as tile that looks like tile, it still just doesn't make any damn sense to me. I'd rather have something as ridiculous as bright purple vinyl than wood-look tile, just because it looks like itself (after all, if it's an unnatural material, why not make it an unnatural color?).
I don't have any experience with other floor types other than sheet linoleum, which takes a beating but is super out of style.
Sheet vinyl is out of style. Linoleum has become somewhat popular again, in a "retro" mid-century-modern sort of way, especially since it's natural/eco-friendly.
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Thanks all for the advice.
We decided to go with the engineered wood, as that is what the nicer houses in the neighborhood have.
You guys nearly unanimously said it was a bad idea for entryways but for whatever reason nearly all houses in our market put wood in entryways, unless they have sheet vinyl.
I realize finish in place solid wood is the best of the best, but even high end houses around here do not have it due to the cost. Everyone just uses the pre-finished stuff,in which case the engineered is more environmentally friendly and less susceptible to water damage than solid wood pre-finished.
Re. Vinyl fake wood looking cheap, I am curious if those of you saying that have seen the newer high end stuff. You can tell if you examine closely, but it is hard to tell. Our YMCA has it (extremely high traffic) and I had to get down on my hands and knees and examine it to determine it was vinyl. Yes it may feel weird in bare feet, I can't deny that. That isn't my chief concern.
Re. Sheet vinyl, the nice stuff looks exactly like tile. I've had to get down and touch it to figure out if it's tile or not, when my friend redid her kitchen floor. Sheet vinyl for lyfe!11!!!!!1!! (Or Lino, whatevs). But our vanilla suburban neighborhood would not be a good fit for anything funky.
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You guys nearly unanimously said it was a bad idea for entryways but for whatever reason nearly all houses in our market put wood in entryways, unless they have sheet vinyl.
I wonder if -- aside from ruining the warranty -- it might be a good idea to install the prefinished floor and then put another coat of polyurethane on top of that to seal up the cracks. Has anybody tried it?
Re. Vinyl fake wood looking cheap, I am curious if those of you saying that have seen the newer high end stuff. You can tell if you examine closely, but it is hard to tell. Our YMCA has it (extremely high traffic) and I had to get down on my hands and knees and examine it to determine it was vinyl. Yes it may feel weird in bare feet, I can't deny that. That isn't my chief concern.
Re. Sheet vinyl, the nice stuff looks exactly like tile. I've had to get down and touch it to figure out if it's tile or not, when my friend redid her kitchen floor. Sheet vinyl for lyfe!11!!!!!1!! (Or Lino, whatevs). But our vanilla suburban neighborhood would not be a good fit for anything funky.
Don't get me wrong: if you were going to live there forever, high-end vinyl would be great. And even when selling it, buyers would think it was awesome... until they found out that it was vinyl, whereupon they would instantly begin hating it.
It reminds me of an early episode of Futurama, where Fry is looking for an apartment. He's touring this apartment that's both awesome and cheap, and asks "what's the catch?" The real estate guy says "well, technically it's in New Jersey." Then it cuts to a scene of Fry back at the office, lamenting that he can't find anywhere to live.
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On the subject of bamboo, I found Costco's strand bamboo product to be excellent and very pleasant to walk on.
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You guys nearly unanimously said it was a bad idea for entryways but for whatever reason nearly all houses in our market put wood in entryways, unless they have sheet vinyl.
Because it looks pretty, and the reason it gets ruined (water) isn't apparent for a bit down the road, and by then the builder is gone with their money or the homeowner realizes they made a mistake.
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for my budget i'd say vinyl everywhere except bathrooms (tile there)...wouldnt want vinyl or hardwood in a bathroom.
but im also not planning on living in an area of town where vinyl may be frowned upon...the resale value wont move much in my area for vinyl v. hardwood despite the "hell yes! hardwood floors!" factor.
for me it comes down to resale value and durability/maintenance.
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Re. Sheet vinyl, the nice stuff looks exactly like tile. I've had to get down and touch it to figure out if it's tile or not, when my friend redid her kitchen floor. Sheet vinyl for lyfe!11!!!!!1!! (Or Lino, whatevs). But our vanilla suburban neighborhood would not be a good fit for anything funky.
We had Mannington Realistique Slate Green put down in one of our houses. It looked like dark grey slate with green highlites in the rock. It was textured like slate, had uneven grout lines like slate, felt like slate, everything about it screamed "I just dropped $10,000 to put a slate floor in!!!" But it cost us a couple grand (don't remember how much anymore) was warm to walk on, and easier on your feet. I loved that floor. I think its no longer available, although I haven't been shopping for flooring in a while.
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Re. Sheet vinyl, the nice stuff looks exactly like tile. I've had to get down and touch it to figure out if it's tile or not, when my friend redid her kitchen floor. Sheet vinyl for lyfe!11!!!!!1!! (Or Lino, whatevs). But our vanilla suburban neighborhood would not be a good fit for anything funky.
We had Mannington Realistique Slate Green put down in one of our houses. It looked like dark grey slate with green highlites in the rock. It was textured like slate, had uneven grout lines like slate, felt like slate, everything about it screamed "I just dropped $10,000 to put a slate floor in!!!" But it cost us a couple grand (don't remember how much anymore) was warm to walk on, and easier on your feet. I loved that floor. I think its no longer available, although I haven't been shopping for flooring in a while.
As far as I can tell, actual slate tile is pretty damn cheap (maybe $1/sq. ft. for grey, or a little more for colorful). It's the fact that installation is more complicated because it's less uniform than regular tile that makes it expensive.
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for my budget i'd say vinyl everywhere except bathrooms (tile there)...wouldnt want vinyl or hardwood in a bathroom.
Oh! Oh! Funny related story - a friend of mine was staying in a temporary apartment provided by his new employer for a while that had CARPET in the BATHROOM. I just could not, for the life of me, understand who would think that was a good idea. It did make that clogged toilet much more interesting...
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Re. Sheet vinyl, the nice stuff looks exactly like tile. I've had to get down and touch it to figure out if it's tile or not, when my friend redid her kitchen floor. Sheet vinyl for lyfe!11!!!!!1!! (Or Lino, whatevs). But our vanilla suburban neighborhood would not be a good fit for anything funky.
We had Mannington Realistique Slate Green put down in one of our houses. It looked like dark grey slate with green highlites in the rock. It was textured like slate, had uneven grout lines like slate, felt like slate, everything about it screamed "I just dropped $10,000 to put a slate floor in!!!" But it cost us a couple grand (don't remember how much anymore) was warm to walk on, and easier on your feet. I loved that floor. I think its no longer available, although I haven't been shopping for flooring in a while.
I also used Mannington. It was their Adura planks. I wouldn't hesitate to use again. The only drawback in my mind is that it isn't a natural product and did smell fume-y for several weeks. Like others have said, it takes close inspection to figure out what material it is.
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Make sure to avoid Lumber Liquidators:
http://kfor.com/2015/03/18/lumber-liquidators-giving-customers-free-formaldehyde-test-kits-after-60-minutes-report/
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The colour we used is no longer available, but this is the flooring: http://www.mannington.com/Residential/Resilient/Best%20Realistique/Ardesia/97052.aspx I loved that floor. Way better than the marble that came in this house and takes constant scrubbing. Never ever buy a house with porous marble floors. Especially if you have kids & pets.
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Vinyl??
I'd get laminate. I wouldn't touch vinyl with a 10 foot pole.
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Vinyl??
I'd get laminate. I wouldn't touch vinyl with a 10 foot pole.
It's not necessarily the vinyl you're thinking of. There are a bunch of vinyl products that used to be only used in commercial construction and are bubbling down to residential. I've seen quite a few that get huge amounts of traffic and look very respectable. (Personally I prefer real wood and tile... but that doesn't fit everyone's lifestyle and/or preferences.)
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Have you considered bamboo? We redid the whole house several years ago. Very tough - doesn't scratch with the dog who tore up the hardwood - and relatively inexpensive, at least compared to hardwood. We used Cali Bamboo - great product, no formaldehyde. Still looks great.
Do you have any of their stuff on stairs? We did one room with their bamboo, and that finish is super slippery; I had wanted to do more of the house, but now I'm worried about how slick it would be on the steps.
Yes, bamboo flooring is on the stairs. Only one who seems to have a problem is the dog when he tries to run up them too quickly. We have teenagers so I can't opine on suitability for young kids.
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Vinyl??
I'd get laminate. I wouldn't touch vinyl with a 10 foot pole.
It's not necessarily the vinyl you're thinking of. There are a bunch of vinyl products that used to be only used in commercial construction and are bubbling down to residential. I've seen quite a few that get huge amounts of traffic and look very respectable. (Personally I prefer real wood and tile... but that doesn't fit everyone's lifestyle and/or preferences.)
Yeah, they've definitely made improvements but I'd still go with laminate personally even over hardwood or engineered. Gives me the closest thing to a real wood look/feel with great durability (I think I'd need an ice pick to scratch mine) and low maintenance (no need for any polishing or sealing).
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Another vote for the NEW vinyl product folks are describing. Its name is Luxury Vinyl Plank Flooring, and it really looks good. Except for bathrooms, where we want tile /heated flooring, we are planning to use this product throughout the house. Reasons we're making this choice:
- I prefer to have the same flooring throughout the whole house, and this product is good everywhere, even the kitchen, where I wouldn't want real hardwood or engineered flooring.
- We plan to stay in this house for the rest of our lives, and this product is easier on the feet and legs than real wood.
- Cleaning is easy.
- The price is so much lower than real hardwood.
- It looks wonderful. Really, I was quite surprised when I looked at it in person. If you're saying, "Vinyl, no way!" go look at it. You owe it to yourself to investigate this option.
Negative: Transitions between this type of vinyl and other types of flooring aren't particularly good -- and I don't know why. So if you're looking at vinyl wood flooring in the living room and carpet in the bedrooms, this might bother you ... but since I want the same product throughout a new house, this negative doesn't bother me.
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Mini thread hijack here - one house we bought had carpet in the bathroom - and mushrooms under the toilet tank. Seriously, the condensation from the uninsulated tank (well water = cold tank = condensation) dripped on the carpet, and the carpet was continuously just damp enough for mushrooms. Guess what our very first DIY was?
Oh! Oh! Funny related story - a friend of mine was staying in a temporary apartment provided by his new employer for a while that had CARPET in the BATHROOM. I just could not, for the life of me, understand who would think that was a good idea. It did make that clogged toilet much more interesting...
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From your two choices I vote for wood look vinyl. We recently replaced carpeting in a vacation home and wanted something indestructible and cost effective. I almost went with wood look vinyl planks but then decided to just do an acid stain on the concrete instead.
I think wood look vinyl is getting popular. A new upscale apartment building I toured had wood look vinyl in living areas (bedrooms were carpeted). My Y just put wood look sheet vinyl in their entry hall. I assume they got an industrial quality that they think will last well.
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Update for the curious:
We went with the wqood for resale value in our 'hood.
Installation went well. It took them 2.5 days (2 guys).
Overall quality was good, with a few piece that had small snags. I can definitely see how this type of product wouldn't last nearly as long as "real" FIP wood floors, but those were way way way out of our budget, and even new, higher end construction at much higher price points doesn't have FIP around here.
We took care of the floors by not wearing shoes inside (do that anyway) and I swept them every night. I have a Bona floor mop (very similar to Swiffer, but more sturdy), and use their dusting pad, and an ecloth brand dusting cloth from Amazon. The ecloth one worked better but was also more expensive. I ran the duster over the floors every evening to pick up anything dirt or sand that got tracked in, it took maybe 5 minutes.
We sold the house after a month on the market FSBO, with the 2nd showing, for close to listing price, and I definitely think the floors helped as buyers in our neighborhood expect move in ready.
In a funny twist of fate, our new rental house has the fake wood vinyl floors, and I love them! Whenever we eventually get into a forever home, I won't hesitate to put the fake wood vinyl in the entire house, including bedrooms. It is a breeze to keep clean, looks real (H thought it was real for the first week), and I don't have to worry about spills and such.
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Virtually all vinyl is made with large amounts of phthalates. Phthalates are among the strongest of endocrine disrupters. Go with wood, ceramic, porcelain or even real linoleum. Run away from vinyl.