Author Topic: Mustachian car guys and gals - How do you deal with it?  (Read 1106 times)

max9505672

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Mustachian car guys and gals - How do you deal with it?
« on: April 12, 2019, 08:26:39 AM »
Hey!

I know, being a car person is probably one of the worst anti-mustachian hobby someone can have. Unfortunately, I am sure that for some of us, the passion is there and it might be pretty hard to deal with it.

For my part, I've definitely always been a car guy. I owned a couple of cool, fun cars when I was younger until I started working and making more money and decided to go with a mustachian choice i.e. cheap, reliable, boring, used car. That's still what I own today and it really felt like a sacrifice to reach a more important goal of mine (FIRE). But over the years, the NW have increased quite a bit and I am now thinking about a second fun/week-end/summer car. The ratio of expenses related to this car would only be a minor percentage of my NW.

I am curious to  hear about how other mustachian car people deal with this passion? Have you put it on the side for a while? Do you own 2 cars, 1 efficient daily driver and another toy car? Do you accept to spend a little more on an all around daily driver? Do you have projects cars on the side?

What do you own that you consider ''not so mustachian'', but that you still keep? If possible, post details (what do you use it for, pictures, strategy to minimize expenses, % of your NW, specs of the car, etc.).

Thanks!

« Last Edit: April 12, 2019, 08:28:22 AM by max9505672 »

RWD

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Re: Mustachian car guys and gals - How do you deal with it?
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2019, 09:36:19 AM »
I only buy cars that are interesting. Currently there are two sports cars in our garage. It is absolutely possible to drive a fun car cheaply.

You may be interested in my journal.

max9505672

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Re: Mustachian car guys and gals - How do you deal with it?
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2019, 10:27:14 AM »
I only buy cars that are interesting. Currently there are two sports cars in our garage. It is absolutely possible to drive a fun car cheaply.

You may be interested in my journal.
Thanks for sharing your journal, I'll try to catch up!

Very interesting to see the details you posted! And also that you own a Cayman :) I always dreamed of a 911, nice ones are so expensive. The Cayman could actually be an interesting option in the net few years.

JLee

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Re: Mustachian car guys and gals - How do you deal with it?
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2019, 10:27:23 AM »
This is my downfall.

I like on road and off road...I have a 1991 MR2 Turbo (that's currently for sale) that I've owned for nearly 11 years. I put way too much money into it in my pre-MMM days and it's obscenely quick, but not really worth all that much.  I moved from the land of infinite parking (AZ) to the land of no parking (northern NJ) so I decided to buy something that would be reliable / stable value so I could mostly drive it instead of work on it, so I bought a 2004 Corvette Z06 with 34k miles on it. It's stock (minus the little things you really should do..column lock bypass, skip shift eliminator, Android Auto) and will stay that way. With values slightly trending up over the last 4-5 years I suspect I won't have to eat much/any depreciation.  I daily drive it if the weather cooperates.

If the weather doesn't cooperate, I have a Lexus GX470 that is built to take me all sorts of places -- major future plans as of now are to be a support vehicle for my SO when she hikes the Continental Divide in 2020 or 2021, and then retrieving her & boat & dogs from Tuktoyaktuk in 2021 or 2022. It has full underbody protection, heavy duty suspension, a 9000lb winch, solar, dual batteries, etc.

I do almost all of my own maintenance (down to complete engine rebuilds). Combined, both of those vehicles are approx 10% of my net worth and I do not factor them into my net worth number.

RWD

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Re: Mustachian car guys and gals - How do you deal with it?
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2019, 11:07:43 AM »
I only buy cars that are interesting. Currently there are two sports cars in our garage. It is absolutely possible to drive a fun car cheaply.

You may be interested in my journal.
Thanks for sharing your journal, I'll try to catch up!

Very interesting to see the details you posted! And also that you own a Cayman :) I always dreamed of a 911, nice ones are so expensive. The Cayman could actually be an interesting option in the net few years.

We have been very happy with the Cayman. If you don't want to spend a lot then the 987 generation has gotten really affordable. They are even under $20k now sometimes for a 2009 base model. (example)

JSMustachian

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Re: Mustachian car guys and gals - How do you deal with it?
« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2019, 02:52:49 PM »
My desire to retire early greatly outweighed my desire to drive a fast sporty car once I learned about FIRE.

For now the sporty car stays in the garage unregistered so the expenses do not derail my FIRE goals.

JLee

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Re: Mustachian car guys and gals - How do you deal with it?
« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2019, 03:43:49 PM »
My desire to retire early greatly outweighed my desire to drive a fast sporty car once I learned about FIRE.

For now the sporty car stays in the garage unregistered so the expenses do not derail my FIRE goals.

You could sell it, invest the proceeds, and buy another one when you're ready.  Sitting for extended periods of time is not generally good for cars anyway.

Dave1442397

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Re: Mustachian car guys and gals - How do you deal with it?
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2019, 05:32:09 PM »
I love cars, but I hate traffic, and that's pretty much all we have around here most of the time.

I daily drove an S2000 for many years, but it got old when sitting in traffic. Now, I drive a Lexus (paid around 25% of original retail) and live vicariously through my friends, one of whom has toys including a Ferrari, an Aerial Atom, etc.


use2betrix

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Re: Mustachian car guys and gals - How do you deal with it?
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2019, 05:35:41 PM »
I have been fighting this urge terribly. I have always been a car guy. I have had some fun ones over the years, but itís been nearly a decade since I had a sports car. This has largely been due to living 5 years in a 5th wheel so a sports car wasnít practical. Now, we just signed a year long lease at an apartment and we have a garage.

Not only that, my income is high, though my work as a contractor is volatile. Iím currently saving close to $15k/month. Even at $30k it gets you into some options Iíd really like (super low mileage 2004 Ford SVT cobra for example) So now - I finally have a garage, I have a high income, etc.

For our DDís, we have a 99 Camry and 17 4Runner (with tons of mods, we took it on an 8000 mile, two month camping trip in 2017). Iíve also considered trading the 4Runner in on something fun like a Raptor that could also be a DD for the wife (she drives very little) and I could still drive the Camry and Raptor on the weekends.

I know, I know, all terrible ideas. I spend hours and hours every week just researching and researching everything about cars. I waited anxiously and non-stop for the new 2020 GT-500 to be released, heck, same with the Gladiator, or new super duty.

Anyways, its such a tough call, do I buy the car I will truly admire and enjoy, or continue on with Fire? Iím working 60 hours a week right now and itís hard to enjoy much aside from my running/workouts and weekend date nights with the wife.

In the future as we move a lot, we may get an airstream for both sabbaticals and to live in full time on contract projects. With that, I would need a tow vehicle and could justify a fun truck (as mentioned before, we lived in a 5th wheel for 5 years and are familiar with the lifestyle)

Sigh.. Iíll probably keep dreaming..

RWD

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Re: Mustachian car guys and gals - How do you deal with it?
« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2019, 05:50:55 PM »
Even at $30k it gets you into some options Iíd really like (super low mileage 2004 Ford SVT cobra for example)

$30k also gets you into a C6 Corvette Z06. Hard to beat that in performance per dollar.

use2betrix

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Re: Mustachian car guys and gals - How do you deal with it?
« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2019, 06:18:44 PM »
Even at $30k it gets you into some options Iíd really like (super low mileage 2004 Ford SVT cobra for example)

$30k also gets you into a C6 Corvette Z06. Hard to beat that in performance per dollar.

Absolutely.. Definitely a better bang for the buck performance wise. Iím thinking that no back seat would be a deal breaker, however.

Plus, I think terminators are holding their value better. C6ís Z06ís are a dime a dozen. Good, unabused terminators are insanely hard to find.

RWD

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Re: Mustachian car guys and gals - How do you deal with it?
« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2019, 06:32:17 PM »
Even at $30k it gets you into some options Iíd really like (super low mileage 2004 Ford SVT cobra for example)

$30k also gets you into a C6 Corvette Z06. Hard to beat that in performance per dollar.

Absolutely.. Definitely a better bang for the buck performance wise. Iím thinking that no back seat would be a deal breaker, however.

Plus, I think terminators are holding their value better. C6ís Z06ís are a dime a dozen. Good, unabused terminators are insanely hard to find.

Understood. Doug DeMuro even mentioned the Terminator Cobras in his video today about vehicles he think will go up in value.

use2betrix

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Re: Mustachian car guys and gals - How do you deal with it?
« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2019, 07:12:38 PM »
Even at $30k it gets you into some options Iíd really like (super low mileage 2004 Ford SVT cobra for example)

$30k also gets you into a C6 Corvette Z06. Hard to beat that in performance per dollar.

Absolutely.. Definitely a better bang for the buck performance wise. Iím thinking that no back seat would be a deal breaker, however.

Plus, I think terminators are holding their value better. C6ís Z06ís are a dime a dozen. Good, unabused terminators are insanely hard to find.

Understood. Doug DeMuro even mentioned the Terminator Cobras in his video today about vehicles he think will go up in value.

Even since Iíve been looking the last couple years Iíve noticed an updward trend. I had a 2004 GT in competition orange back in the day. It had an MGW short throw and Magnaflow catless exhaust. It wasnít anything crazy but it sounded insane and I got compliments everywhere. The color takes a little bit to get used to, but then itís amazing. A 2004 Competition Orange would be my perfect choice, but that color, along the mystichrome, definitely command the highest dollar.

Iíll check that video for other possible ideas, thanks!

max9505672

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Re: Mustachian car guys and gals - How do you deal with it?
« Reply #13 on: April 13, 2019, 10:16:25 AM »
For my part, living in Canada with 4 months of winter and sh***y salty roads, the most logical way to go in the future would probably to have a cheap daily driver with a second summer car.

I'm not there yet as I'd like to have a place with a garage first to be able to work on the cars comfortably and store the summer car for the winter. And that would be maybe 1 1/2 years from now.

Then, I'd probably set a maximum number in my mind, for exemple 20K$, that would be the treshold of what I could spend on a toy car.

Then, the most important criteria for me would be to look for cars that have pretty much stopped depreciating since it's what's having the biggest impact on my NW and FIRE goals. Where I am from, for cars older than 10 years, you don't have to pay taxes on them when bought from an other individual, so that'll probably be another criteria (otherwise it's 10% taxes). Then, I'd start shopping for good, stock and well maintained examples of various models I'd have selected.

The goal would be to minimize the insurances (the car being stored 4-5 months / 12 months would help), minimize maintenance costs (ideally looking for reliably proven models without too much complicated technology) and minimize the running costs (by doing my own maintenance, shopping for deals, no modifications other than what could easily be turned back to stock and sold).

I'd also probably try to buy a deal just before winter. The price difference between beginning of summer and end of summer is pretty significant around here for summer cars and motorcycle. The cars would also always be for sale on Craiglist (or equivalent) at a higher price than what I paid for. You never know when the right buyer is looking for what you have and that could turn a nice profit.

Basically, I want to find a way to enjoy nice cars while minimizing the impact on my NW. I'm ready to make compromises on newer models that would impact the NW too much, but I don't think I'm ready to make a total compromise on this passion like I've done over the last years. I actually see it as a nice challenge and a nice accomplishement to enjoy great cars for almost nothing.

Can you guys help me identify car that would fit this mindset? I never owned nor driven out of the ordinary cars. I'm interested in fun to drive cars. I'd like to experience powerful cars too. But in general, I'm pretty flexible in what I want to try.

- AP1-AP2 Honda S2000
- 2003 and newer Mercedes CLK55 AMG
- E46 M3
- E39 M5
« Last Edit: April 13, 2019, 10:27:55 AM by max9505672 »

Askel

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Re: Mustachian car guys and gals - How do you deal with it?
« Reply #14 on: April 13, 2019, 10:56:21 AM »
I am curious to  hear about how other mustachian car people deal with this passion?

I got into bicycles.  Turns out, they scratch all the same itches cars did for me- adventure, camaraderie, technical challenges and the flow enjoyed whilst doing so, plus there's still all kinds of shiny toys to geek out on- but at a fraction of the price.  I'm not the only one- it's kind of surprising how many of my old rally buddies are now regular faces at gravel road races. 

Probably could have saved a bunch of money if I had figured that out sooner, but maybe I've changed a bit too. 

That said, going entirely car free isn't a really great option for me right now, so it's likely that whatever I'm driving will always have three pedals and a bit of oversteer at the ready. 

Askel

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Re: Mustachian car guys and gals - How do you deal with it?
« Reply #15 on: April 13, 2019, 11:25:41 AM »
If I did get back into cars, I have several buddies that seem to have figured out how to best keep the cost low- pick a brand and a few different models of such and stick with them for life. Best if it's something where lots of parts interchange between models. Hondas, BMWs, VWs, Subraus, and Saabs seem to fit this. Porsches seem to as well, but I don't really know any Porsche guys who operate like this. 

These guys usually have a steady stream of cars in various states of repair drifting through their back 40.  Some get daily driven, some get parted out, some get raced, some get flipped for a profit. 

They learn all the gotchas and tricks to get the most out of these cars.

When somebody else comes across a good deal on something or needs to get rid of something, they're always at the top of the list to call as "that guy".   

Some even turn it into a bit of a business, building and maintaining race and track cars for other folks. 

Sometimes it even runs in the family- I know at least a couple multi-generation brand loyalists. 

It does require an investment in tools and space to keep and work on these things- but unlike a car, these actually can be a real income producing investment if you're so inclined. At least they don't depreciate or incur maintenance costs like a fancy weekender luxury car. 

chasesfish

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Re: Mustachian car guys and gals - How do you deal with it?
« Reply #16 on: April 13, 2019, 12:13:57 PM »
Describe "in to cars" - Do you like turning a wrench?  I've seen some mustacian ways to come out ahead on certain popular high mileage models if you're good with mechanics.

Land Cruisers and Wranglers are popular regardless of age.  I know someone who drives/fixes up a land cruiser every 6-12 months and makes a little money on it

max9505672

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Re: Mustachian car guys and gals - How do you deal with it?
« Reply #17 on: April 13, 2019, 02:35:49 PM »
I am curious to  hear about how other mustachian car people deal with this passion?
I got into bicycles.
Interesting! I'm actually a big bicycle fan too. In a certain way, my interest in bicycles filled a part of what the cars were once filling.

max9505672

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Re: Mustachian car guys and gals - How do you deal with it?
« Reply #18 on: April 13, 2019, 02:38:16 PM »
Describe "in to cars" - Do you like turning a wrench?
I enjoy doing all the maintenance and I have enough knowledge and tools to do pretty much everything on my own. However, I'm not looking for a project car that'll take a long time to get on the road.

Askel

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Re: Mustachian car guys and gals - How do you deal with it?
« Reply #19 on: April 14, 2019, 04:04:37 AM »
Interesting! I'm actually a big bicycle fan too. In a certain way, my interest in bicycles filled a part of what the cars were once filling.

It wasn't really a conscious decision at first. I just started spending more and more time attending bike events and training for them.

Eventually, I finally realized I was a bike guy and not a car guy anymore. 

Unfortunately the pendulum has swung a bit too far and I've got a growing anti-car streak now, but like I mentioned before- my lifestyle doesn't really allow me to go car free.  And I still find some fun in driving when I do it.

chasesfish

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Re: Mustachian car guys and gals - How do you deal with it?
« Reply #20 on: April 14, 2019, 06:34:08 AM »
Describe "in to cars" - Do you like turning a wrench?
I enjoy doing all the maintenance and I have enough knowledge and tools to do pretty much everything on my own. However, I'm not looking for a project car that'll take a long time to get on the road.

Try fulfilling this hobby by finding 10-12 year old Land Cruisers for $10,000 - $12,000.  I have a friend who is always itching for a new one, does the maintenance himself, and loves finding deals.  Those things have a floor on their price because of the overseas demand and he's pretty much driving a fully depreciated car.

magnet18

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Re: Mustachian car guys and gals - How do you deal with it?
« Reply #21 on: April 14, 2019, 07:39:48 AM »
Interesting and affordable things and do only your own work!
90s and 70s mustangs, and a 1st gen 4runner, for me :)

All purchased pre moustache, and they aren't getting a whole heck of a lot of love at the moment, but my FI goals include a nice big barn for restoring antique autos, for finishing these and flipping others

max9505672

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Re: Mustachian car guys and gals - How do you deal with it?
« Reply #22 on: April 14, 2019, 08:41:24 AM »
Try fulfilling this hobby by finding 10-12 year old Land Cruisers for $10,000 - $12,000.  I have a friend who is always itching for a new one, does the maintenance himself, and loves finding deals.  Those things have a floor on their price because of the overseas demand and he's pretty much driving a fully depreciated car.
Thnaks but trucks aren't really my thing. Ultimately, I'd like something I enjoy driving, something with a little bit of performance.

RWD

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Re: Mustachian car guys and gals - How do you deal with it?
« Reply #23 on: April 14, 2019, 10:07:04 AM »
Can you guys help me identify car that would fit this mindset? I never owned nor driven out of the ordinary cars. I'm interested in fun to drive cars. I'd like to experience powerful cars too. But in general, I'm pretty flexible in what I want to try.

- AP1-AP2 Honda S2000
- 2003 and newer Mercedes CLK55 AMG
- E46 M3
- E39 M5

I have driven an AP2 Honda S2000. It's a really good car but I decided it wasn't what I wanted. The gear ratios were too short (sort of necessitated by the lack of torque). They are pretty much guaranteed to hold their value now.

You'll need to drive the cars to figure out what you like.

Some others to look into that are depreciating very slowly or even appreciating in value:
987 Porsche Cayman/Boxster
Porsche 944
BMW M Roadster (Z3-based version)
2005-06 Pontiac GTO
Lotus Elan M100 (very difficult to find)
FD RX-7
Z32 Nissan 300ZX
A70 Toyota Supra
W20 Toyota MR-2

JLee

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Re: Mustachian car guys and gals - How do you deal with it?
« Reply #24 on: April 14, 2019, 10:54:18 AM »
Can you guys help me identify car that would fit this mindset? I never owned nor driven out of the ordinary cars. I'm interested in fun to drive cars. I'd like to experience powerful cars too. But in general, I'm pretty flexible in what I want to try.

- AP1-AP2 Honda S2000
- 2003 and newer Mercedes CLK55 AMG
- E46 M3
- E39 M5

I have driven an AP2 Honda S2000. It's a really good car but I decided it wasn't what I wanted. The gear ratios were too short (sort of necessitated by the lack of torque). They are pretty much guaranteed to hold their value now.

You'll need to drive the cars to figure out what you like.

Some others to look into that are depreciating very slowly or even appreciating in value:
987 Porsche Cayman/Boxster
Porsche 944
BMW M Roadster (Z3-based version)
2005-06 Pontiac GTO
Lotus Elan M100 (very difficult to find)
FD RX-7
Z32 Nissan 300ZX
A70 Toyota Supra
W20 Toyota MR-2

C5 Corvettes (base and Z06) as well.

RecoveringCarClown

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Re: Mustachian car guys and gals - How do you deal with it?
« Reply #25 on: April 14, 2019, 11:12:11 AM »
Notice my user says ďrecoveringĒ and not recovered.  You never actually recover, you just try to minimize your afflictionís effects on FIRE. ;)

How about a Lotus Evora, 2+2 and a Toyota engine, although the +2 is hilariously tight.