Moving to Canada (aka I need more maple syrup in my life)

[GuitarStv]

But as you state. Canada is cold. All of it. More people are probably less inclined to move there. Cold regions are not highly sought after outside of people of European descent.

um...no?  The BC coast is pretty darn temperate, rarely dropping more than a few degrees below freezing along the coast.   It's gets far colder in many US cities (e.g. Boston, Chicago, Detroit, Buffalo, Milwaukee...) than it ever does in Vancouver, Canada's 3rd largest city.
As Retireat63 pointed out, something like 90% of Canadians live within 200km of the US boarder, and while enormous the northern half of the country is largely uninhabited. Much of Canada gets quite warm in the summer too (~90ºF/32ºC).  The climate in parts is not very different from much of Europe, as you say, but large swaths of Canada are in the same summer/winter temperature ranges as Japan and Korea and Northern China, as well as southern Argentina, Chile and Peru.
There's a couple hundred million people on several continents that live in climates typical of most Canadian cities.

Fair enough. I have visited both coasts of Canada: PEI and Victoria. But I only visited during the July-September timeframe. It's lovely, but also not what most modern immigrants would call summer weather. I would personally love to live in either of those locations. Though the amount of daylight/darkness might be more off-putting than the temperature.

However, the areas you mention are not large sources of immigration. They are not part of either the Central American migration or African/Middle Eastern/ Southeast Asian refugees. As far as I know, the regions you mention are not experiencing a mass exodus.

Perhaps that is what it would take for Canada to reach that level of diversity. Mass exodus from other cold regions of the world.

These are honestly just some random thoughts floating in my brain. I'm not saying they're correct. But Canada is more isolated geographically, White, and urbanized than the US. They are also a much smaller country population wise. Canada does not weigh more political power to rural areas. (As far as I know?). Canada has never been less White than the US (in the past 200 years). So I would personally be hesitant to think that that won't change should Canada have similar population shifts.

I think a core problem with this line of thinking is that it starts with the phrases "Canada is..." and "the US is..."  To paraphrase a Canadian former broadcaster: one of the great mistakes that Canadians make is to consider it to be nationally homogenous in terms of its views, composition and culture.  The same can be said of Canada.
There are regions in both countries which are overwhelmingly white and religiously homogenous. At the same time there are metropolitan areas that are very diverse.

I'm also confused by what you mean when you say that 'the areas you mention are not large sources of immigration.'  Vancouver is 1/3 Asian, and very soon whites will no longer be in the majority.  Likewise Toronto is only 50% white, and a good chunk (~1/3) of its population is from African or South-Asian decent. Likewise, 1/3 of Montréal and Calgary are 'visible minorities' with most coming from 'warm weather' locales like Africa, the Middle East and SE Asia.  Collectively these are Canada's four largest metropolitan areas.  To the degree that one can make sweeping generalizations about a geographically huge country like Canada, it is that it has seen a large influx of 'visible minorities' from mostly 'warm countries' into its largest cities over the last several decades, somuchso that 'White-Canadians' will no longer hold a majority in many places within the next decade.

You've changed the argument on me. The argument was that Canada doesn't have a similar climate to areas of large emigration. The fact that almost all immigrants settle in a few places goes to my point that Canada is more urban than the US in general. The problem that you are talking about emerging in the Toronto area in the next decade has been happening in the US for several decades. Modern immigration aside, the US has always been dealing with a wider variety of backgrounds than Canada. I'm not saying that that is a good or bad thing. It's just the reality of their respective histories.

Given that I'm a white guy living in an area of the East end that is about 70% minority from warm climates, I'm a little confused.  What 'problem' are you referring to that is emerging in the Toronto area?

[FIPurpose]

You are also mistaken that 'Canada is more urban than the US in general'. Currently both countries have roughly ~80% of their population living in metropolitan areas. Both countries have trended towards increasingly urban populations since the 1980s.  Its also not at all clear how you measuring immigration when you say that "the US has always been dealing with a wider variety of backgrounds than Canada".  Canada and the US have followed largely parallel tracks with occasional differences.  Ironically, in the last several decades Canada has allowed more immigrants per capita than the US, and these immigrants are overwhelmingly from many of the places you speak of.

You're right. I got this one wrong. That was an assumption on my part.

Here's a great study on population differences between the US and Canada through time:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3768295/

Though I don't have the time right now to go through it all...

[FIPurpose]

But as you state. Canada is cold. All of it. More people are probably less inclined to move there. Cold regions are not highly sought after outside of people of European descent.

um...no?  The BC coast is pretty darn temperate, rarely dropping more than a few degrees below freezing along the coast.   It's gets far colder in many US cities (e.g. Boston, Chicago, Detroit, Buffalo, Milwaukee...) than it ever does in Vancouver, Canada's 3rd largest city.
As Retireat63 pointed out, something like 90% of Canadians live within 200km of the US boarder, and while enormous the northern half of the country is largely uninhabited. Much of Canada gets quite warm in the summer too (~90ºF/32ºC).  The climate in parts is not very different from much of Europe, as you say, but large swaths of Canada are in the same summer/winter temperature ranges as Japan and Korea and Northern China, as well as southern Argentina, Chile and Peru.
There's a couple hundred million people on several continents that live in climates typical of most Canadian cities.

Fair enough. I have visited both coasts of Canada: PEI and Victoria. But I only visited during the July-September timeframe. It's lovely, but also not what most modern immigrants would call summer weather. I would personally love to live in either of those locations. Though the amount of daylight/darkness might be more off-putting than the temperature.

However, the areas you mention are not large sources of immigration. They are not part of either the Central American migration or African/Middle Eastern/ Southeast Asian refugees. As far as I know, the regions you mention are not experiencing a mass exodus.

Perhaps that is what it would take for Canada to reach that level of diversity. Mass exodus from other cold regions of the world.

These are honestly just some random thoughts floating in my brain. I'm not saying they're correct. But Canada is more isolated geographically, White, and urbanized than the US. They are also a much smaller country population wise. Canada does not weigh more political power to rural areas. (As far as I know?). Canada has never been less White than the US (in the past 200 years). So I would personally be hesitant to think that that won't change should Canada have similar population shifts.

I think a core problem with this line of thinking is that it starts with the phrases "Canada is..." and "the US is..."  To paraphrase a Canadian former broadcaster: one of the great mistakes that Canadians make is to consider it to be nationally homogenous in terms of its views, composition and culture.  The same can be said of Canada.
There are regions in both countries which are overwhelmingly white and religiously homogenous. At the same time there are metropolitan areas that are very diverse.

I'm also confused by what you mean when you say that 'the areas you mention are not large sources of immigration.'  Vancouver is 1/3 Asian, and very soon whites will no longer be in the majority.  Likewise Toronto is only 50% white, and a good chunk (~1/3) of its population is from African or South-Asian decent. Likewise, 1/3 of Montréal and Calgary are 'visible minorities' with most coming from 'warm weather' locales like Africa, the Middle East and SE Asia.  Collectively these are Canada's four largest metropolitan areas.  To the degree that one can make sweeping generalizations about a geographically huge country like Canada, it is that it has seen a large influx of 'visible minorities' from mostly 'warm countries' into its largest cities over the last several decades, somuchso that 'White-Canadians' will no longer hold a majority in many places within the next decade.

You've changed the argument on me. The argument was that Canada doesn't have a similar climate to areas of large emigration. The fact that almost all immigrants settle in a few places goes to my point that Canada is more urban than the US in general. The problem that you are talking about emerging in the Toronto area in the next decade has been happening in the US for several decades. Modern immigration aside, the US has always been dealing with a wider variety of backgrounds than Canada. I'm not saying that that is a good or bad thing. It's just the reality of their respective histories.

Given that I'm a white guy living in an area of the East end that is about 70% minority from warm climates, I'm a little confused.  What 'problem' are you referring to that is emerging in the Toronto area?

The problem of racial tensions getting worse. I've spent very little time in Toronto. Mostly in Brampton. It doesn't take much reading too much news to find that these international groups are perfectly integrated:

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/toronto/brampton-a-story-of-political-importance-power-and-ethnic-enclaves/article30273820/

[FIPurpose]

No.  the point that I am trying to make is that making sweeping generalizations about either countries leads to lots of erroneous conclusions, particularly on a regional level. I'm certainly NOT calling these shifts problems, but these demographic shifts have been ongoing for decades, not just something which has is predicted to happen in the coming decades. Heck, Toronto was more diverse than Chicago back in the 1980s. Sure, Quebec is way less diverse than California, but the reverse could be said about Montana and Ontario.  If we insist on comparing the entire countries, about the major difference is that the US has had a much larger latino population per capita for decades while Canada has had a great deal more immigration from SE Asia (again, relative to their population sizes).

You're right I made sweeping generalizations that were not correct. There are diverse places and non diverse places in both countries. I was trying to create bigger trends but really just ended up trying to fit the facts into a narrative I already had in my mind.

It's difficult to compare a countries that have different geographies and a population difference of 10x. Someone in the states could be living in Atlanta and think that the US has little Asian immigration while someone living in Seattle will think that the black population is much smaller than it actually is. But I think it's a mistake to take Canada's marginally larger immigration numbers to create the narrative that that makes Canada better at integrating or treating foreigners better. As I've said, I don't think white Canada has actually felt the loss of political power that WASP Americans have. I don't think Canada has the magical culture that will avoid the recent nationalism that is being seen in the US and Europe.

[letsdoit]

i've always had the hunch (i hope i'm wrong) that canada will become more  backlashy against immigration and integration.  US and australia certainly are

[FLBiker]

Listen - you live in the richest country in the world. You literally have states with a warm climate and no income taxes (Florida). You have a gazillion small towns with cheap housing that aren't as cold as the North Pole. I honestly don't understand why you would want to leave that country.

As a Floridian in the process of applying for Canadian residency, I feel compelled to reply.  The simple answer is because there are more important things to me than money and outdoor air temperature (without denying that both of those things are nice). 

The longer answer undoubtedly varies for everyone.  For us, it mostly comes down to where we think we'd like to raise our daughter (she's 3).  We'd like her to go to school without active shooter drills and armed guards.  We'd like her to grow up in a place that believes everyone should have basic health insurance.  With an eye towards the longer long term, we'd like to set her up in a place that seems somewhat well positioned for climate change (small population, lots of fresh water, lots of land, fewer guns).  Admittedly, it's a crap shoot in a lot of ways -- we might not get in, there might be other problems that end up bothering us more (as every place is imperfect), things might change -- but we feel like she'll be set up better for the next 100 or so years in Canada than in the US.  It also seems like it wouldn't be a bad place to FIRE since healthcare is separate from employment.  We're probably about 70% of the way there.  We shall see.

[nereo]

i've always had the hunch (i hope i'm wrong) that canada will become more  backlashy against immigration and integration.  US and australia certainly are

What do you think would cause this shift?

[letsdoit]

i do not have the expertise to answer this question. 
alot of countries are becoming more while nationalist and many (yikes!) closer to dictatorships
again, i hope i am wrong that canada would follow the trend . 
si vous etes de la belle province, assuming that is quebec, i would be interested to hear your opinion. 

[FLBiker]

i've always had the hunch (i hope i'm wrong) that canada will become more  backlashy against immigration and integration.  US and australia certainly are

What do you think would cause this shift?

To be honest, my wife and I both kind of think this, too.  The reality is, as people get more scared (ie as resources get scarcer, terrorism attacks and other violence more frequent, extreme weather more frequent) nationalism is a common side effect.  That's part of why (as white people) we chose Canada over some place like Taiwan (where I lived for 5 years and really love).  It's unfortunate that such things were part of our considerations, but they were.

Also, though, these things (nationalism / anti-immigrant / etc.) tend to ebb and flow, like lots of things, so it's tough to know if / when the next cycle will hit.  I certainly do agree, though, that it's a common trend in many countries right now.

[Paul der Krake]

i've always had the hunch (i hope i'm wrong) that canada will become more  backlashy against immigration and integration.  US and australia certainly are

What do you think would cause this shift?

Trusting people who don't look like you is a very new phenomenon, and much easier in small doses. Some countries are better than others at it, no doubt.

[nkt0]

Listen - you live in the richest country in the world. You literally have states with a warm climate and no income taxes (Florida). You have a gazillion small towns with cheap housing that aren't as cold as the North Pole. I honestly don't understand why you would want to leave that country.

…And you don't need to. My reasons are my own.

[Prairie Stash]

Listen - you live in the richest country in the world. You literally have states with a warm climate and no income taxes (Florida). You have a gazillion small towns with cheap housing that aren't as cold as the North Pole. I honestly don't understand why you would want to leave that country.

…And you don't need to. My reasons are my own.

Don't worry, millions of Canadians understand your reasons quite well. Honestly, many of us don't understand why you would want to stay in America ;)

Don't feel a need to defend your reasons, Kashmani was taking a cheap shot at Canada and trying to imply it wasn't as good a country. Its a fairly common American response, most non-americans worldwide are quite use to the sentiment that some Americans think their country is #1 in all ways. We gladly accept Americans who are willing to give other places a chance to show how nice life can be.

[nkt0]

We gladly accept Americans who are willing to give other places a chance to show how nice life can be.

That's our hope. :D

[nereo]

Listen - you live in the richest country in the world. You literally have states with a warm climate and no income taxes (Florida). You have a gazillion small towns with cheap housing that aren't as cold as the North Pole. I honestly don't understand why you would want to leave that country.

…And you don't need to. My reasons are my own.

Don't worry, millions of Canadians understand your reasons quite well. Honestly, many of us don't understand why you would want to stay in America ;)

Don't feel a need to defend your reasons, Kashmani was taking a cheap shot at Canada and trying to imply it wasn't as good a country. Its a fairly common American response, most non-americans worldwide are quite use to the sentiment that some Americans think their country is #1 in all ways. We gladly accept Americans who are willing to give other places a chance to show how nice life can be.

Yup.

There’s more to living somewhere than just weather and taxes.
Besides, some of us are huge fans of the services that our taxes buy us and would prefer to live somewhere with higher taxes.

Personally, my dream is to move to Iqaluit, which is fucking cold, oppressively dark half the year, and insanely expensive to live with extremely limited resources. I’m willing to pay a premium to be cold and inconvenienced.
Different people have different priorities.

I rather like the weather in Canada - at least along the boarder where most of the population lives.  Iqualuit - wow.  I spent a day there enroute to Qikiqtarjuaq. Very interesting airport but I'm sure that's a place I'd want to live permanently. To each their own though.

[Mrs.Piano]

My husband was the one who decided to move from the US to Canada to live, and the only place that would do was Toronto.  Personally, I liked Windsor very much, also Montreal and Kingston, but he did not want to compromise on his dream.  We were both shocked at the prices but in the end, we bought a detached house in Toronto.  We are considered seasonal residents and are able to do everything except work, vote, or use the health system.  There are no children, but if we had them, they would not be eligible to enroll in school under the seasonal resident status.  We like it here and it is a great place for Mustachian living after FI, with excellent public transport and plenty of access to money-saving opportunities.  Without FI, of course, it is a terrible place to live.

[letsdoit]

My husband was the one who decided to move from the US to Canada to live, and the only place that would do was Toronto.  Personally, I liked Windsor very much, also Montreal and Kingston, but he did not want to compromise on his dream.  We were both shocked at the prices but in the end, we bought a detached house in Toronto.  We are considered seasonal residents and are able to do everything except work, vote, or use the health system.  There are no children, but if we had them, they would not be eligible to enroll in school under the seasonal resident status.  We like it here and it is a great place for Mustachian living after FI, with excellent public transport and plenty of access to money-saving opportunities.  Without FI, of course, it is a terrible place to live.

of course, terrible?  how so?

[Mrs.Piano]

The housing prices are so astronomical that it is much more difficult than necessary to build FI. The average detached house costs CAD 1.5 million, for example. We also paud15% foreign buyers tax.

[nkt0]

The housing prices are so astronomical that it is much more difficult than necessary to build FI. The average detached house costs CAD 1.5 million, for example. We also paud15% foreign buyers tax.

Yeah, that's why we're not even considering anything within 100km of Toronto or Vancouver. I'm headed to Windsor on Saturday to scope it out. It's the front-runner right now…

[FLBiker]

We are considered seasonal residents and are able to do everything except work, vote, or use the health system.

So what happens if you get sick / injured?  Do you have to pay out of pocket?  Or can do you carry private insurance?

[RetiredAt63]

A few years ago I was staying at a hotel across the street from a conference I was attending in Toronto and there was a lady from Montreal there too. Each morning, I would automatically jaywalk across the street while her natural inclination was to walk to the end of the block, use the crosswalk there, then backtrack to the conference centre. So from my single experience,  I concluded that Montreal-ers don't jaywalk much :)

I don't know what happened, we sure used to.  I was at a conference in a small town in upper New York State in the early 80's, and a bunch of us walked into town for dinner.  The other Montrealer and I crossed at all the red lights, while everyone else stopped.  There was truly no street traffic.

I also was shocked at how good Toronto drivers were at stopping for pedestrian crossings (this was in the 50's and 60's) - you took your life in your hands expecting a Montreal driver to stop for you.  Things have changed, Toronto is a horrible city to drive in now, I sure would not want to be a pedestrian there.

[Mrs.Piano]

We have insurance in the US, which covers us for emergencies in other countries. Part of the requirements for being seasonal residents is that you have a residence outside of Canada.  We are also just finishing getting our documents for Express Entry (permanent residency) with our lawyer. If for some reason that does not succeed, the lawyer advises one of us to get an additional Master’s degree as a Canadian student, which should then be enough points no matter what. Until either being admitted as permanent residents or as student and spouse, we will just stay seasonal residents.

[nkt0]

I'm at the airport awaiting my flight back home after visiting Windsor. I was supposed to be there all week, but i only needed about 3 hours to determine that Windsor is not the place for us. Let's start with the pros.

Pros: Proximity to Detroit…which is a surprisingly nice city. A decent riverwalk (though Detroit's is orders of magnitude better). Some nice housing stock in the Walkerville neighborhood, if you're into old suburban living. Inexpensive housing costs.

Cons: Not particularly walkable. Very little public transit. Very little investment in infrastructure, parks, public space, etc. Very little apparent culture or arts. Very few amenities in the city center.

In short, based on our desire to maintain our current car-free, walkable lifestyle with access to lots of cultural amenities, Windsor is completely bankrupt. I literally booked the first flight out of here once i arrived. Detroit is a much better option, but our goal is still to land somewhere in Canada.

Victoria is next on the list. We'll be visiting in early November. We may also have to resurrect Kingston and plan a trip there, too.

[Retire-Canada]

Victoria is next on the list. We'll be visiting in early November. We may also have to resurrect Kingston and plan a trip there, too.

Drop me a line when you have some dates. I can meet you for a beer and give you a local perspective. I've lived in ON/PQ/AB and BC. I haven't found anyplace I would rather live in Canada than Vancouver Island. I came out to Victoria 8yrs ago and love the place.

I spent 6yr in Kingston. Nice town. If I had to live in ON I'd consider it.

[DaMa]

Detroit is not a walkable city either.  If you live here, you really have to have a car, and car insurance is ridiculously expensive.

My DH is a Canadian citizen, and I often wonder if moving to Canada is a good option for FIRE.

[Paul der Krake]

I was kinda shocked by how tiny Victoria really is. Fewer than 100,000 people, tons of tourism, little industry, not that much cheaper than Vancouver. Totally eclipsed on the economic side of things, being on an island with no bridges will do that to you. Beautiful city though.

[Retire-Canada]

I was kinda shocked by how tiny Victoria really is. Fewer than 100,000 people, tons of tourism, little industry, not that much cheaper than Vancouver. Totally eclipsed on the economic side of things, being on an island with no bridges will do that to you. Beautiful city though.

The metro Victoria area is closer to 400K people. There are a large number of municipalities all jammed up against each other at the southern tip of Van Isle. I technically live in Saanich, but my mailing address is Victoria, BC and I can throw a Frisbee into Victoria. The economy is booming and there is surprising amount of industry here. I work in aeropace composite manufacturing, another MMMer Chaplin works in heavy industrial equipment manufacturing, etc... Victoria is the most walk-able/bike-able major city I've lived in...partially due to geography, partially due to infrastructure and partially due to mild winter weather.

[Paul der Krake]

I was kinda shocked by how tiny Victoria really is. Fewer than 100,000 people, tons of tourism, little industry, not that much cheaper than Vancouver. Totally eclipsed on the economic side of things, being on an island with no bridges will do that to you. Beautiful city though.

The metro Victoria area is closer to 400K people. There are a large number of municipalities all jammed up against each other at the southern tip of Van Isle. I technically live in Saanich, but my mailing address is Victoria, BC and I can throw a Frisbee into Victoria. The economy is booming and there is surprising amount of industry here. I work in aeropace composite manufacturing, another MMMer Chaplin works in heavy industrial equipment manufacturing, etc... Victoria is the most walk-able/bike-able major city I've lived in...partially due to geography, partially due to infrastructure and partially due to mild winter weather.

Interesting, I assume the industrious part of town must be outside of the city center? My point of reference is Seattle, where I live (hi neighbor!), and I couldn't comprehend why anyone who can live in either would pick Victoria (or Vancouver, for that matter) in the accumulation phase. In retirement, it's a different story.

I am very curious about the relative lack of rain though. Wikipedia says that the Olympics shelter the city and you guys get much less rain than the rest of the PNW. Is this true in your experience?

[Spudd]

Is Ottawa off the table? I think it has what you're looking for in terms of walk/bikeability with public transit being very well done.

Kingston is smaller than Ottawa and I'm not sure how good their transit is. I feel like the downtown area is very pretty and walkable, but if you want to go to Walmart or something, you'll need to take a bus.

[Retire-Canada]

Interesting, I assume the industrious part of town must be outside of the city center? My point of reference is Seattle, where I live (hi neighbor!), and I couldn't comprehend why anyone who can live in either would pick Victoria (or Vancouver, for that matter) in the accumulation phase. In retirement, it's a different story.

I am very curious about the relative lack of rain though. Wikipedia says that the Olympics shelter the city and you guys get much less rain than the rest of the PNW. Is this true in your experience?

I was interested in living in the US at one point. I would have had easy access to a skilled worker visa, but after spending a significant amount of time in the US I decided that I would rather live in Canada. If potential salary and COL were the only factors the US wins, but there are a lot of quality of life items that are better in Canada. So if you handed me a Green Card I'd stay right where I am.

Yes we get a lot less rain than Seattle or Vancouver:

- Victoria = 28"/yr
- Vancouver = 53"/yr
- Seattle = 38"/yr [last 4 yrs more like 44"/yr]

I do outdoor sports all winter and with just a bit of flexibility I rarely have to do stuff in the rain. A lot of it falls at night and in intermittent periods during the day so you can just schedule around it.

BTW - you can thank the lack of bridges [hence the ferry] for the huge amount of recreational infrastructure on Van Isle with so few people actually using them. If you want to get out for a hike, bike, paddle and do some camping without a lot of people to deal with we've got you covered.

[letsdoit]

We have insurance in the US, which covers us for emergencies in other countries. Part of the requirements for being seasonal residents is that you have a residence outside of Canada.  We are also just finishing getting our documents for Express Entry (permanent residency) with our lawyer. If for some reason that does not succeed, the lawyer advises one of us to get an additional Master’s degree as a Canadian student, which should then be enough points no matter what. Until either being admitted as permanent residents or as student and spouse, we will just stay seasonal residents.

do you think people really need a lawyer for Exp Entry? do you think it would be pretty easy to follow the guidelines yourselves?

[letsdoit]

do you know if you have to finish the master's degree in order to get points or just start it ?

[letsdoit]

Is Ottawa off the table? I think it has what you're looking for in terms of walk/bikeability with public transit being very well done.

Kingston is smaller than Ottawa and I'm not sure how good their transit is. I feel like the downtown area is very pretty and walkable, but if you want to go to Walmart or something, you'll need to take a bus.

ottawa seems cool but alot of the jobs want you to speak french at near-native levels. that seems like overkill. 

[nkt0]

Is Ottawa off the table? I think it has what you're looking for in terms of walk/bikeability with public transit being very well done.

I’ve been warned off Ottawa by Canadian friends who describe it as a large suburb. It’s on the list, but pretty far down. Maybe below the point where we just scrap the plan altogether.

[singpolyma]

I don't know what "cultural amenities" are for sure, but it feels like if you want that Ottawa would be a good choice...

[nereo]

Is Ottawa off the table? I think it has what you're looking for in terms of walk/bikeability with public transit being very well done.

I’ve been warned off Ottawa by Canadian friends who describe it as a large suburb. It’s on the list, but pretty far down. Maybe below the point where we just scrap the plan altogether.

This is not my impression of Ottawa.  If anything, Ottawa’s image is driven by the fact that it is both the nation’s capitol and much, much smaller than Toronto, Montreal or Calgary.   So yeah, you can walk from the downtown hub/Parliament and in ~15 minutes be in neighborhoods with single-family homes. To me that’s a feature, not a bug.  But there is a defined downtown area with modest-sized skyscrapers.  As a capitol city it has a great deal of events and anemites.

I think it’s at least worth spending a day or two there to see if it’s something you like.

[nkt0]

I think it’s at least worth spending a day or two there to see if it’s something you like.

Fair enough. May work into a Kingston/Ottawa dual trip.

[Dee]

I loved Victoria and would definitely consider a move there once I hit FIRE. I'm currently in Ottawa, which is also lovely, as explained above by Malkynn (who I didn't realize was in Ottawa).

It's funny how some things can just be a dealbreaker right away and people might not think to tell you them in advance. Like, for you, Windsor was just not going to cut it. For my spouse, after driving from Vancouver to Calgary -- which was truly splendid throughout -- as soon as he saw Calgary on the horizon, he knew it was not a place for him because there were very few trees and residential yards tended to be fully exposed. Immediate dealbreaker. (Not that we'd been thinking of moving there, but good to know it holds no attraction for him.) But not everyone would even notice that about Calgary or think to tell someone about the lack of trees.

So, you're doing your legwork and seeing for yourselves -- perfect.

I hold high hopes for Victoria on your behalf.

[nkt0]

I hold high hopes for Victoria on your behalf.

I'm keeping my expectations low, but i would love to be back on the west coast. It's a far cry from the Bay Area (where i used to live), but i do love the Pacific time zone. :D

Our biggest concern with Victoria (besides the cost) is the isolation. The PNW itself is pretty isolated from the rest of the countries/continent. Then in Victoria, you're on an island without bridges.

But…you never know until you visit, so that's what we're going to do!

[Retire-Canada]

Our biggest concern with Victoria (besides the cost) is the isolation. The PNW itself is pretty isolated from the rest of the countries/continent. Then in Victoria, you're on an island without bridges.

But…you never know until you visit, so that's what we're going to do!

If you have to leave the island a lot to be happy the fact you are on an island will be a drag. If you are happy with what's here it's a pretty great place to live. As I alluded to above I look at the ferries as a feature not a negative. They keep visitors at bay so we can enjoy our island in [relative] peace. A bridge would bring over hordes of mainlanders and I think we'd all regret it....despite the easier travel option off the island.

[nkt0]

If you have to leave the island a lot to be happy the fact you are on an island will be a drag. If you are happy with what's here it's a pretty great place to live. As I alluded to above I look at the ferries as a feature not a negative. They keep visitors at bay so we can enjoy our island in [relative] peace. A bridge would bring over hordes of mainlanders and I think we'd all regret it....despite the easier travel option off the island.

Totally understand that. Having never been to Victoria, we need to experience it for ourselves to come to a decision about it's viability as a landing place for us (regardless of affordability, which may torpedo the entire thing).

[TrMama]

Our biggest concern with Victoria (besides the cost) is the isolation. The PNW itself is pretty isolated from the rest of the countries/continent. Then in Victoria, you're on an island without bridges.

But…you never know until you visit, so that's what we're going to do!

If you have to leave the island a lot to be happy the fact you are on an island will be a drag. If you are happy with what's here it's a pretty great place to live. As I alluded to above I look at the ferries as a feature not a negative. They keep visitors at bay so we can enjoy our island in [relative] peace. A bridge would bring over hordes of mainlanders and I think we'd all regret it....despite the easier travel option off the island.

I agree with this completely. The fact that it's its own little world is a feature, not a bug. I always joke that you can tell how long someone's lived here, by simply asking how often they leave The Island. The longer someone's here, the less frequently they travel off island.

If you need to travel frequently, I'd build the cost of flights into your budget. The ferries are indeed a PITA, but the flight to Vancouver (where you can connect to anywhere in the world) is only 20 min.

[nereo]

Our biggest concern with Victoria (besides the cost) is the isolation. The PNW itself is pretty isolated from the rest of the countries/continent. Then in Victoria, you're on an island without bridges.

But…you never know until you visit, so that's what we're going to do!

If you have to leave the island a lot to be happy the fact you are on an island will be a drag. If you are happy with what's here it's a pretty great place to live. As I alluded to above I look at the ferries as a feature not a negative. They keep visitors at bay so we can enjoy our island in [relative] peace. A bridge would bring over hordes of mainlanders and I think we'd all regret it....despite the easier travel option off the island.

I agree with this completely. The fact that it's its own little world is a feature, not a bug. I always joke that you can tell how long someone's lived here, by simply asking how often they leave The Island. The longer someone's here, the less frequently they travel off island.

If you need to travel frequently, I'd build the cost of flights into your budget. The ferries are indeed a PITA, but the flight to Vancouver (where you can connect to anywhere in the world) is only 20 min.

Have a good friend who grew up there and who's parents still live on the Island.  Her mother came out for a visit and we got to talking about how often she travels off-island.  Her response: about once or twice a year now.  It used to be much more but now i rarely leave. Just don't have a need to.

[firelight]

We are starting to think seriously about moving to Canada as well. We qualify for PR and need to spend time actually getting the PR. I'm loving this thread since it has thrown light on more cities and their pros and cons. Our first choice is still large cities like Vancouver and Toronto (nothing in Quebec due to lack of French) but I think we need to look into Windsor, London and Victoria (milder weather is a big draw).

For those with kids, how easy it is to bring up kids  there? Has anyone moved from US to Canada with kids? How has the transition been? Mine are four and one.

Also any pointers on how to position finances where income=expenses+rrsp+tfsa would be appreciated. We are not looking for adding to our stash but would love to not touch the stash for a few more years if possible.

[SunnyDays]

Also any pointers on how to position finances where income=expenses+rrsp+tfsa would be appreciated. We are not looking for adding to our stash but would love to not touch the stash for a few more years if possible.

RRSP contributions are on earned income only, to a max of around 18,000.00 per year per person.  (Could be more by now.)  That's if you have no work pension; if you do, then CRA will tell you what your limit is when you get your statement back after filing taxes.  TFSAs have had a set limit of 5500.00 per year, except for one year when it was 10,000.00.  It's been around 7 or 8 years, so the max is whatever that adds up to be.  However, I don't know if you would be eligible to put in the whole sum if you're just moving to Canada.
If you expect your retirement income to be quite low, then TFSAs are good; otherwise, I think RRSPs are the preferred vehicle.  You could do both, starting with RRSPs, then put the tax rebate you get from that into a TFSA.
I don't have kids, but daycare is pretty expensive, around 25.00 per day at a provincially regulated centre.    There's also before and after school daycare - don't know the price for that.  Probably raising kids here is similar to the US, but with a lot fewer school shootings!  There's a child tax credit offered by the gov't as well, I think in the neighbourhood of 5000.00 per year, but you'd have to check on that.
Come on up, you'll like it here!

[letsdoit]

i;ve never heard of seasonal visa.   is the OP going up on tourist visas and renewing ?

[Mrs.Piano]

It is not called a seasonal visa, it is called being a seasonal resident. When we come in, we have with us the papers that show we own the house, and they let us in.  Usually, they do not ask for the papers, but sometimes they do.  One time, I heard the more experienced officer telling the newer one: «  Look at the screen. Madame and Messieur have temporary residence. »

For those who asked if it could be done without a lawyer, we have no idea. Everyone we know used a lawyer.

One gets a certain amount of points for actually getting the graduate degree in Canada, and there afe also some points connected to the number of years one lives in Canada to get the degree? We don’t really know, as it has not come to that.

[elaine amj]

Our first choice is still large cities like Vancouver and Toronto (nothing in Quebec due to lack of French) but I think we need to look into Windsor, London and Victoria (milder weather is a big draw).

Is London considered to have milder weather? My impression is that they get quite a fair bit of snow dumped on them every winter. Probably less than further north though.

[Shinplaster]

Our first choice is still large cities like Vancouver and Toronto (nothing in Quebec due to lack of French) but I think we need to look into Windsor, London and Victoria (milder weather is a big draw).

Is London considered to have milder weather? My impression is that they get quite a fair bit of snow dumped on them every winter. Probably less than further north though.

Sometimes yes, sometimes no.  It's a crap shoot every year.  Most memorable since we've lived here was the 2 day storm about 10 years ago that dumped 150cm on us.  You can never predict where the snowsqualls will go, or how much we'll get.   Many times it isn't snowing here, but Stratford (45 min. away) is getting hammered.  Or vice versa.

Compared to cities like Ottawa, I'd say we get milder winters. Compared to Victoria?  No contest - choose Victoria.
 

 

[nereo]

Sounds like its out of the running, but I'd just add that Quebec City is considerably colder than either Montreal or Ottawa in the wintertime.
Making the drive from QC to Montreal in spring or fall (nowish) you could note how much further along the foliage was, even though Montreal is mostly west and at about the same elevation. Montreal and Ottawa's fall seems to start about 2 weeks later, and spring comes about 2 weeks earlier. 

One thing that always struck me living in Quebec compared to places like Boston or Buffalo is the scarcity of very large snowfalls but the consistency of lighter ones.  In 6 years of living there the most we ever received from a single snowfall was about 30cm (1 foot) and that was newsworthy, but we'd it was also common to get snow accumulation 3 or 4 days a week (generally of 2-4 cm each day).  In comparison, I've lived through multiple snowfalls of 60+ cm along the east coast but snowstorms are often interspaced with weeks of zero accumulation.

[nkt0]

One thing that always struck me living in Quebec compared to places like Boston or Buffalo is the scarcity of very large snowfalls but the consistency of lighter ones.

Boston gets Nor'easters and Buffalo/Syracuse/Rochester get lake effect snow. London gets the same kind of lake effect snow from proximity to Lake Huron.