Author Topic: Moving south?  (Read 7278 times)

ETBen

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Moving south?
« on: March 11, 2017, 04:20:09 PM »
I know this is highly anecdotal and individual. But I'd like some feedback on living in the south. I have had it with living in the northeast and snowstorms and cold. I could easily get a telecommuting job with my company and live anywhere. There are complicating factors like having kids in grade school and moving them away from their father. So this may be a wish and a dream and nothing more.

Pros: cheaper although I do fine now, little to no snow and freezing temps.
Maybes: humidity. It's the south and while I'm a churchgoer, I'm also a really liberal feminist biracial female. I have very little family, so I'm not moving away from much but I might feel like an outsider? Thinking of small cities, not Atlanta. Also the whole moving the kids thing.
Cons: ...

East River Guide

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Re: Moving south?
« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2017, 04:27:30 PM »
The "South" is a pretty diverse set of options.   Places like Raleigh-Durham and Nashville are smaller than Atlanta but still offer some good business options and have plenty of people moving in.   If you want to go even smaller places like Athens or Asheville may still have enough of a liberal vibe for you.   

SwordGuy

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Re: Moving south?
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2017, 04:31:50 PM »
Small towns, north or south, may consider you a stranger until the day you die.

That has nothing to do with anything other than "you aren't from around here."   There is nothing to be done about it.

Some are very insular, some are not.   It's something to watch out for.

Small cities, however, should be more used to new people and therefore more welcoming.

Military towns are very definitely used to new people!

Another good marker to look for would be the presence of more or more universities - particularly not one run by a fundamentalist sect.

It's one of the things I really liked about where I moved to, Fayetteville, NC.   The people here don't care where you're from.   If you show up and want to participate, they're glad you did.   And, since our soldiers travel the world and marry people there (and bring some of the spouse's family back with them), it's much more cosmopolitan than one would expect.


ETBen

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Re: Moving south?
« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2017, 04:55:00 PM »
Good points, I hadn't thought of these.

pigpen

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Re: Moving south?
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2017, 09:21:45 AM »
I'll add to the it-depends-on-where-you-are responses. I live in East Nashville. The norm here is "really liberal." You'd probably feel like an outsider in our neighborhood if you were a really conservative white guy with a Trump sign in his front yard. A liberal feminist bi-racial woman wouldn't even show up on anyone's prejudicial radar. Outside of Nashville, it's often a different story, but even then, not necessarily.

I can't speak to the racial component very well, since I'm just an average white guy, but you can find liberal enclaves throughout the South if you do a little homework. Nashville, Atlanta, Knoxville (although a very white town in general), Chattanooga, Asheville (which, by the way, also has a very, very conservative element), Greenville SC, North Charleston SC, Raleigh-Durham NC, South Florida, Austin TX, Athens GA. Outside of Nashville, there's a town called Woodbury (pop. 2,600) where some people, many of them gay liberals, from East Nashville are moving to escape the growth here. As far as I know, that's going ok for them. Those are just a few places I know off the top of my head. I'm sure there are many more like them.

If you go to these places assuming that you'll be seen as an outsider (not saying that you, personally, are), you'll probably find evidence of that pretty easily, but I don't think the night-and-day difference between North and South that many people imagine still really exists. When I lived in New York City for several years, I saw plenty of examples of racism, religious prejudice, and closed-mindedness, including the cop who told me without hesitation that I should be careful about moving to a particular neighborhood because of the high school there, where they "bus the n****** in from all over the city."

All that to say, if you end up deciding that you want to move south, I'm pretty sure you could find a place where you could feel at home. Good luck! Hope things work out well for you in any case.


Dee18

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Re: Moving south?
« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2017, 09:56:14 AM »
I would say proceed with caution.  Every Caucasian I know in my Southern, racially diverse community would say we welcome diversity.  My daughter, who is not Caucasian, would say they are nuts. 
« Last Edit: March 12, 2017, 09:59:07 AM by Dee18 »

JLee

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Re: Moving south?
« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2017, 10:09:46 AM »
I moved from NH to Phoenix in 2011 because I was tired of being cold.

I have absolutely no regrets.

Spork

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Re: Moving south?
« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2017, 10:25:30 AM »
How bad does feeling like an outsider bother you?  (I'm not talking about threats of violence or crosses burning in your front yard... clearly those are a little more than bothersome.)

I've lived in the south all my life.  A good portion of it was in a small town.  I'm a fairly hard core libertarian atheist.  (But an average white guy, so in a crowd... you wouldn't know.)  I've always felt somewhat of an outsider.  But I've also always been able to find friends -- both folks that share my philosophies and, honestly, a bunch that don't.  If you don't need an entire city that thinks like you, you're probably okay.

The cons for me:
* Dear lort it is hot.  No, really.  I mean really, really hot.  When August comes around and the yard needs mowing I can procrastinate better than anyone.
* There are going to be some Bubba types (and Bubbette types) that you're just not going to get along with.  Period.  If you can learn to just ignore them, you'll probably feel better. 

startingsmall

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Re: Moving south?
« Reply #8 on: March 12, 2017, 11:45:55 AM »
I will second the "proceed with caution" advice.

I grew up in Florida, in a beach town full of people who had moved from elsewhere. While there are some drawbacks to that sort of environment, the advantage is that there tends to be a lot of diversity... even if not ethnic diversity, diversity of thoughts and backgrounds.

Ten years ago, I moved to NC. I wanted to be near the mountains and take advantage of hiking and other outdoor opportunities. Because there are few jobs in Asheville, I ended up in a small town... and over time, I've moved several times but always among small towns in the NC foothills. It is HARD. I would be out of here by now if not for my husband, a native of the area who is just now finally coming around to the idea of maybe moving someday.

- Everyone grew up here. Outsiders are viewed with skepticism.
- There is very little diversity of thought. Not just in politics, but even the way I dress (I'm a jeans-and-t-shirt girl, not a fancy-blouse-with-fancy-leggings-and-cool-boots-and-loads-of-costume-jewelry girl) is viewed with skepticism. You don't go to MLM parties? Weird.  You don't get mani/pedis? Weird. My husband endures endless rude comments about the fact that I out-earn him. Etc. I never realized how much of a "thing" that is.
- Kids that grow up here don't tend to get out. I'm sure much of it is learned helplessness. I have major reservations about raising our daughter here.
- Religion. My husband is a liberal pastor, but we have to keep our views hidden and 'not rock the boat' for him to have any hope of employment. There are no progressive churches within ~1 hr of our town.

Just my $0.02 - hope it helps. Steer clear of small towns.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2017, 12:01:32 PM by startingsmall »

begood

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Re: Moving south?
« Reply #9 on: March 12, 2017, 12:21:18 PM »
The whole Triangle area - Raleigh, Durham, Chapel Hill, NC - is generally pretty liberal-leaning. Durham has the highest African-American population; Chapel Hill is the crunchiest; Raleigh is the most traditional.

You might consider university towns, or cities with lots of academia. Greensboro, NC, is a small city with five colleges and universities, including two HBUCs (A&T and Bennett). It's more progressive than a lot of small Southern cities (including its Triad counterparts, High Point and Winston-Salem).

Richmond and Charlottesville both meet that criteria in Virginia.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2017, 02:13:57 PM by begood »

geekette

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Re: Moving south?
« Reply #10 on: March 12, 2017, 12:57:21 PM »
Yeah, NC cities lean liberal, especially college towns.  5 minutes outside city limits and the HB2 and Trump signs were out in force.  I live here and was shocked.  Then again, my whole family is a bit shocking right now.

Chapel Hill isn't the crunchiest - that honor is reserved for Carrboro which, I believe, has an openly lesbian mayor.

GreenEggs

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Re: Moving south?
« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2017, 01:37:10 PM »
I prefer the mountains or the coast in the South.  Otherwise the Summer heat & humidity are unbearable.   We live just outside Boone, a small mountain college town.  Winter can get really cold, but don't last long. 

The area in the middle of NC is called the "piedmont".  I wouldn't live there, unless you can afford a lake house, because of the Summer heat.

I've never lived at the coast, but really like it. 

You should plan to visit any place that you might be interested in living, so you can see firsthand how the folks treat you.  I never have problems meeting friendly people wherever I go, if I'm in a friendly mood.   


ETBen

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Re: Moving south?
« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2017, 03:18:54 PM »
Thanks everyone!  That sounds about what I hoped with cities or colleges nearby. I grew up in a rural area but wouldn't want to live in one again. We are Asian so the racism isn't as much as a concern as for some, but I care in general anyway. As a few others said, it's also cloaked differently in different areas, not necessarily absent.

I don't know what I hate more: cold dreary weather or humidity. The cold dreary weather really affects my mood and I'm tired of it, even with meds or lights.

Reynolds531

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Re: Moving south?
« Reply #13 on: March 12, 2017, 04:04:10 PM »
Am I the only one who has a problem with someone who takes her kids away from an involved dad? Even if you can do it legally..

ETBen

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Re: Moving south?
« Reply #14 on: March 12, 2017, 05:13:24 PM »
Am I the only one who has a problem with someone who takes her kids away from an involved dad? Even if you can do it legally..

As I said, this may just be a wish and a dream. That would be a whole other post and not a decision made lightly. But as a successful single working mother who is fully self supporting, I retain my own agency in that decision without the need for advice from random men on the internet.

Dicey

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Re: Moving south?
« Reply #15 on: March 12, 2017, 06:09:54 PM »
Am I the only one who has a problem with someone who takes her kids away from an involved dad? Even if you can do it legally..

As I said, this may just be a wish and a dream. That would be a whole other post and not a decision made lightly. But as a successful single working mother who is fully self supporting, I retain my own agency in that decision without the need for advice from random men on the internet.
Meh, when you put it out there to the great wide world, you have given acceptance to advice from all comers. You're not even in the journal section. Just because you don't like the reply doesn't mean it's okay to snark at their perspective, much less Introduce gender. The reply to your question could have been written by anyone. Hell, had I known the backstory, i might have asked the same question. Ergo, the question is relevant if there's another parent involved, but gender of the person asking the question is not. If you don't like the answer, how about deleting this thread and/or apologizing? Unless there's some history that's not apparent to the average reader of this thread, you are the one who seems kind of, I dunno...harsh. Sheesh.

SwordGuy

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Re: Moving south?
« Reply #16 on: March 12, 2017, 06:15:39 PM »
Am I the only one who has a problem with someone who takes her kids away from an involved dad? Even if you can do it legally..

As I said, this may just be a wish and a dream. That would be a whole other post and not a decision made lightly. But as a successful single working mother who is fully self supporting, I retain my own agency in that decision without the need for advice from random men on the internet.

Slow clap.  (No advice offered. :))

Reynolds531

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Re: Moving south?
« Reply #17 on: March 12, 2017, 06:31:21 PM »
I guess I missed the "only reply if you're a female liberal who won't point out the inescapable fact that my kids are better off with their dad around" part of the thread title.

No other advice for you, but if you could post your exes GoFundMe legal fund, I'm good for $10.

scantee

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Re: Moving south?
« Reply #18 on: March 12, 2017, 07:04:03 PM »
The reality is that some divorced parents are fine with the other parent moving away with the kids. We don't know anything about ETBen's spouse and what arrangements s/he would be open to. Since she put a big caveat in her original post, and presumably knows her situation and ex-spouse better than us strangers on the internet, it seems best to take her original request for more information in good faith rather than immediately jumping to conclusions and assuming the worst of her.

So, my first thought was North Carolina. Chapel Hill, Asheville, Raleigh, and Carrboro are options to consider. The range in size but none of them are big cities, and they have fairly reasonable living costs alongside culture and decent schools. I don't live in North Carolina myself but know many people who do and they all love it, recent political craziness aside.

I also know liberalish and/or non-white people who live in Memphis, Nashville, Santa Fe, and Austin and they like those places and report they are welcoming to outsiders.

redbird

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Re: Moving south?
« Reply #19 on: March 12, 2017, 08:33:46 PM »
Honestly, it depends on where you're going and where you're from. I grew up in Baltimore. I also lived in Atlanta for a while as an adult. Atlanta is actually less humid in the summer than Baltimore is, even though it's much farther south. Baltimore has the Chesapeake Bay keeping it humid. Atlanta is much farther away from a big water source. As a result of not being extremely humid like Baltimore, the summer actually felt cooler in Atlanta. And winter was also much nicer in Atlanta.

Paul der Krake

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Re: Moving south?
« Reply #20 on: March 12, 2017, 11:13:14 PM »
Biscuits and barbecue.

That is all.

Schaefer Light

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Re: Moving south?
« Reply #21 on: March 13, 2017, 06:37:04 AM »
I grew up in Chapel Hill, NC.  The whole Triangle are - Raleigh, Durham, Chapel Hill - is generally pretty liberal-leaning. Durham has the highest African-American population; Chapel Hill is the crunchiest; Raleigh is the most traditional.

The worst part about that area is all the Yankee transplants who are living there now ;).

golden1

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Re: Moving south?
« Reply #22 on: March 13, 2017, 07:58:08 AM »
A friend of mine moved from Boston area to Raleigh-Durham last year.  He is very happy with it.  He has a brand new beautiful home and the weather is better.  He says the vast majority of people there are transplants.  Schools are good too.  If my husband could tolerate the heat, and my kids weren't in middle/high school, I would consider it.   

ETBen

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Re: Moving south?
« Reply #23 on: March 13, 2017, 08:38:20 AM »
I grew up in Chapel Hill, NC.  The whole Triangle are - Raleigh, Durham, Chapel Hill - is generally pretty liberal-leaning. Durham has the highest African-American population; Chapel Hill is the crunchiest; Raleigh is the most traditional.

The worst part about that area is all the Yankee transplants who are living there now ;).

Haha I do know a fair number of people that moved to Cary over the years!

Thanks to others on the response to questioning my family situation. I'm not feeling like I need to dignify that with any further response of my own.

Schaefer Light

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Re: Moving south?
« Reply #24 on: March 13, 2017, 08:49:25 AM »
I grew up in Chapel Hill, NC.  The whole Triangle are - Raleigh, Durham, Chapel Hill - is generally pretty liberal-leaning. Durham has the highest African-American population; Chapel Hill is the crunchiest; Raleigh is the most traditional.

The worst part about that area is all the Yankee transplants who are living there now ;).

Haha I do know a fair number of people that moved to Cary over the years!

Thanks to others on the response to questioning my family situation. I'm not feeling like I need to dignify that with any further response of my own.

CARY = City of Aggravated Relocated Yankees

ETBen

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Re: Moving south?
« Reply #25 on: March 13, 2017, 09:31:42 AM »
I grew up in Chapel Hill, NC.  The whole Triangle are - Raleigh, Durham, Chapel Hill - is generally pretty liberal-leaning. Durham has the highest African-American population; Chapel Hill is the crunchiest; Raleigh is the most traditional.

The worst part about that area is all the Yankee transplants who are living there now ;).

Haha I do know a fair number of people that moved to Cary over the years!

Thanks to others on the response to questioning my family situation. I'm not feeling like I need to dignify that with any further response of my own.

CARY = City of Aggravated Relocated Yankees

Ha!  I've also heard "containment area for relocated Yankees". I think the housing is a huge attraction for people from here!

Paul der Krake

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Re: Moving south?
« Reply #26 on: March 13, 2017, 09:46:54 AM »

dougules

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Re: Moving south?
« Reply #27 on: March 13, 2017, 11:35:57 AM »
You should be aware that there are a few cultural differences between the North and the South.  My husband is from a small town in PA, and so he's had a few cultural adjustments to make.  A lot of it is minor like the fact that people don't have a problem making small talk with total strangers. 

I think the biggest one, though, is probably the difference in what southerners and northerners consider polite.  From what I've seen, direct simple honesty seems to be what northerners see as polite even if the truth hurts.  In the South it's considered rude to be too honest.  Northerners generally come off here as blunt to the point of being very rude.  We are very indirect, and we generally avoid topics of conversation that might rock the boat.  We will be nice around people that we despise.  My husband sees it as lying, but here it's just basic politeness.  We don't make any assumptions that being nice to somebody = liking them. 

Maybe that's just my personal experience.  I'm curious to see if anybody else with experience on both sides of the Mason-Dixon Line has seen the same thing.   

Also, you may not get as many minor little culture shocks if you end up in a liberal town with a decent number of transplants. 

And I'm going to throw in a plug for Chattanooga. 
« Last Edit: March 13, 2017, 11:38:40 AM by dougules »

startingsmall

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Re: Moving south?
« Reply #28 on: March 13, 2017, 11:59:10 AM »
You should be aware that there are a few cultural differences between the North and the South.  My husband is from a small town in PA, and so he's had a few cultural adjustments to make.  A lot of it is minor like the fact that people don't have a problem making small talk with total strangers. 

I think the biggest one, though, is probably the difference in what southerners and northerners consider polite.  From what I've seen, direct simple honesty seems to be what northerners see as polite even if the truth hurts.  In the South it's considered rude to be too honest.  Northerners generally come off here as blunt to the point of being very rude.  We are very indirect, and we generally avoid topics of conversation that might rock the boat.  We will be nice around people that we despise.  My husband sees it as lying, but here it's just basic politeness.  We don't make any assumptions that being nice to somebody = liking them. 

Maybe that's just my personal experience.  I'm curious to see if anybody else with experience on both sides of the Mason-Dixon Line has seen the same thing.   



Coming from a town in Florida that was primarily northerners, moving to a small town in the south, I would absolutely agree with this.

It comes across as very insincere to me and I hate the fact that all conversations are very scripted, with little room for substance or honesty. When we go visit my hometown, though, my husband is shocked at everyone's rudeness (which I see as honesty).

ETBen

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Re: Moving south?
« Reply #29 on: March 13, 2017, 12:21:24 PM »
You should be aware that there are a few cultural differences between the North and the South.  My husband is from a small town in PA, and so he's had a few cultural adjustments to make.  A lot of it is minor like the fact that people don't have a problem making small talk with total strangers. 

I think the biggest one, though, is probably the difference in what southerners and northerners consider polite.  From what I've seen, direct simple honesty seems to be what northerners see as polite even if the truth hurts.  In the South it's considered rude to be too honest.  Northerners generally come off here as blunt to the point of being very rude.  We are very indirect, and we generally avoid topics of conversation that might rock the boat.  We will be nice around people that we despise.  My husband sees it as lying, but here it's just basic politeness.  We don't make any assumptions that being nice to somebody = liking them. 

Maybe that's just my personal experience.  I'm curious to see if anybody else with experience on both sides of the Mason-Dixon Line has seen the same thing.   



Coming from a town in Florida that was primarily northerners, moving to a small town in the south, I would absolutely agree with this.

It comes across as very insincere to me and I hate the fact that all conversations are very scripted, with little room for substance or honesty. When we go visit my hometown, though, my husband is shocked at everyone's rudeness (which I see as honesty).

Oh god, I am so direct. Not always honest to a fault, but direct. Which is funny bc I was at a leadership conference recently with a lot of southerners and this was mentioned about me lol

MishMash

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Re: Moving south?
« Reply #30 on: March 13, 2017, 12:31:46 PM »
I've lived all over, both the Carolinas (sorry couldn't pay me to go back to Fayettenam), Athens, Atlanta, Augusta in GA, LA, bum fuck VA, DC, NY, NJ, MA, NH, ME...and that is just the east coast.

Starting small you are 100% correct.  I'm a direct person, and honesty is not considered the best policy in the south.  Everything is sugar coated with fake "kindness" to within an inch of it's life.  Like you have to pry the truth out of a pixie stick full of fake feels.  It used to drive me batty! That and the whole passive aggressive "I hate your guts but Bless Your Heart" BS.

Religion is a big one.  Are you religious?  Then you should fit in fine so long as you can conform to whatever church you go to's interpretation of the bible.  Not super religious, and not really good at faking it...you will be the anti christ in most parts of the south.  Small towns, yea you'll be a stranger until the day you die, but at least they will be nice to your face.

Oh and I hope you like football.  It's life.  And I mean even middle school and high school football, it's like a town wide event on Fridays in most smaller areas.  College....well, I did my graduate degree in GA...and I can't really describe it.  It's a cultural thing, I just never really "got" it (to be fair I don't get the NFL thing either).  Oh and don't show up to a game in jeans and a Tshirt.  You need to be wearing your Sunday best dress.

Just remember a good chunk of the South still has a huge antebellum and debutant culture.  Like Junior Leagues are HUGE the further south you go. Having grown up in the north, moving down south was a HUGE cultural shock the first time.  You get used to it, just like you do everything else in life.  You learn new things like cow bells are cool, and what the hell "farm parties" are (your kids will learn that one), and that grits really can taste good and not like mashed up tasteless baby food.  You adapt, you appreciate different things etc. 

Don't expect anything to go on a timely schedule. People just move sloooooowwww compared to the northeast.  They talk slower, they cook your food slower, hell they WALK slower.  They aren't slow people but they physically move slow as molasses compared to the north between all of the expected small talk and the "summer heat"
« Last Edit: March 13, 2017, 12:46:39 PM by MishMash »

Roland of Gilead

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Re: Moving south?
« Reply #31 on: March 13, 2017, 12:36:56 PM »
]
As I said, this may just be a wish and a dream. That would be a whole other post and not a decision made lightly. But as a successful single working mother who is fully self supporting, I retain my own agency in that decision without the need for advice from random men on the internet.

Based on this, I think you would fit right in here in Seattle.

GreenSheep

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Re: Moving south?
« Reply #32 on: March 13, 2017, 12:42:00 PM »
You should be aware that there are a few cultural differences between the North and the South.  My husband is from a small town in PA, and so he's had a few cultural adjustments to make.  A lot of it is minor like the fact that people don't have a problem making small talk with total strangers. 

I think the biggest one, though, is probably the difference in what southerners and northerners consider polite.  From what I've seen, direct simple honesty seems to be what northerners see as polite even if the truth hurts.  In the South it's considered rude to be too honest.  Northerners generally come off here as blunt to the point of being very rude.  We are very indirect, and we generally avoid topics of conversation that might rock the boat.  We will be nice around people that we despise.  My husband sees it as lying, but here it's just basic politeness.  We don't make any assumptions that being nice to somebody = liking them. 

Maybe that's just my personal experience.  I'm curious to see if anybody else with experience on both sides of the Mason-Dixon Line has seen the same thing.   



Coming from a town in Florida that was primarily northerners, moving to a small town in the south, I would absolutely agree with this.

It comes across as very insincere to me and I hate the fact that all conversations are very scripted, with little room for substance or honesty. When we go visit my hometown, though, my husband is shocked at everyone's rudeness (which I see as honesty).


I grew up in a small-ish town in Virginia, and I agree. We are direct and honest, as gently as possible, with people we know well, but in less intimate relationships, we prefer to maintain the peace and avoid confrontation. The phrase "bless your heart" comes to mind; I don't actually say it (I'm not quite that stereotypically Southern), but it's generally said when you're trying not to say something mean and don't really have anything else to say. I often just smile and change the subject or say bland things like "I hear you" until the subject dies if I disagree with someone. Maybe that's insincere, but on the other hand I'm not outright lying by saying things like "I agree" or "You're right." It makes for a more comfortable getting-through-the day, at least for those of us who don't like confrontation and aren't good at debating hot-button issues on the fly (maybe due to lack of practice given our upbringing?), and when someone from the South is honest with you about something unpleasant, you know they truly view you as a close friend.

On the flip side, I lived in Vermont for a while and found people there to be very nice and friendly. I never found that anyone went too far on the other end of the "direct and honest" scale with me. That was also a smallish town, though, so maybe that made the difference? Or maybe it was just that they read my personality and changed their method of communication accordingly.

ETBen

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Re: Moving south?
« Reply #33 on: March 13, 2017, 01:19:56 PM »
I've lived all over, both the Carolinas (sorry couldn't pay me to go back to Fayettenam), Athens, Atlanta, Augusta in GA, LA, bum fuck VA, DC, NY, NJ, MA, NH, ME...and that is just the east coast.

Starting small you are 100% correct.  I'm a direct person, and honesty is not considered the best policy in the south.  Everything is sugar coated with fake "kindness" to within an inch of it's life.  Like you have to pry the truth out of a pixie stick full of fake feels.  It used to drive me batty! That and the whole passive aggressive "I hate your guts but Bless Your Heart" BS.

Religion is a big one.  Are you religious?  Then you should fit in fine so long as you can conform to whatever church you go to's interpretation of the bible.  Not super religious, and not really good at faking it...you will be the anti christ in most parts of the south.  Small towns, yea you'll be a stranger until the day you die, but at least they will be nice to your face.

Oh and I hope you like football.  It's life.  And I mean even middle school and high school football, it's like a town wide event on Fridays in most smaller areas.  College....well, I did my graduate degree in GA...and I can't really describe it.  It's a cultural thing, I just never really "got" it (to be fair I don't get the NFL thing either).  Oh and don't show up to a game in jeans and a Tshirt.  You need to be wearing your Sunday best dress.

Just remember a good chunk of the South still has a huge antebellum and debutant culture.  Like Junior Leagues are HUGE the further south you go. Having grown up in the north, moving down south was a HUGE cultural shock the first time.  You get used to it, just like you do everything else in life.  You learn new things like cow bells are cool, and what the hell "farm parties" are (your kids will learn that one), and that grits really can taste good and not like mashed up tasteless baby food.  You adapt, you appreciate different things etc. 

Don't expect anything to go on a timely schedule. People just move sloooooowwww compared to the northeast.  They talk slower, they cook your food slower, hell they WALK slower.  They aren't slow people but they physically move slow as molasses compared to the north between all of the expected small talk and the "summer heat"


Omg, this has me dying!!!


dougules

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Re: Moving south?
« Reply #34 on: March 13, 2017, 01:31:22 PM »
I've lived all over, both the Carolinas (sorry couldn't pay me to go back to Fayettenam), Athens, Atlanta, Augusta in GA, LA, bum fuck VA, DC, NY, NJ, MA, NH, ME...and that is just the east coast.

Starting small you are 100% correct.  I'm a direct person, and honesty is not considered the best policy in the south.  Everything is sugar coated with fake "kindness" to within an inch of it's life.  Like you have to pry the truth out of a pixie stick full of fake feels.  It used to drive me batty! That and the whole passive aggressive "I hate your guts but Bless Your Heart" BS.

Religion is a big one.  Are you religious?  Then you should fit in fine so long as you can conform to whatever church you go to's interpretation of the bible.  Not super religious, and not really good at faking it...you will be the anti christ in most parts of the south.  Small towns, yea you'll be a stranger until the day you die, but at least they will be nice to your face.

Oh and I hope you like football.  It's life.  And I mean even middle school and high school football, it's like a town wide event on Fridays in most smaller areas.  College....well, I did my graduate degree in GA...and I can't really describe it.  It's a cultural thing, I just never really "got" it (to be fair I don't get the NFL thing either).  Oh and don't show up to a game in jeans and a Tshirt.  You need to be wearing your Sunday best dress.

Just remember a good chunk of the South still has a huge antebellum and debutant culture.  Like Junior Leagues are HUGE the further south you go. Having grown up in the north, moving down south was a HUGE cultural shock the first time.  You get used to it, just like you do everything else in life.  You learn new things like cow bells are cool, and what the hell "farm parties" are (your kids will learn that one), and that grits really can taste good and not like mashed up tasteless baby food.  You adapt, you appreciate different things etc. 

Don't expect anything to go on a timely schedule. People just move sloooooowwww compared to the northeast.  They talk slower, they cook your food slower, hell they WALK slower.  They aren't slow people but they physically move slow as molasses compared to the north between all of the expected small talk and the "summer heat"

Well you're just as bitter, mean, and nasty as a pitbull who's had his bone stole, bless your little heart. 

"Bless your little heart" can be used to sincerely try to soften something that could be mistaken as mean.  It can also be used to sincerely throw some serious shade. 

And are you knocking my MSU cowbell?  GO DAWGS!!!

Everything you mentioned probably wouldn't be so bad specifically in the towns that are getting mentioned here. 


You should be aware that there are a few cultural differences between the North and the South.  My husband is from a small town in PA, and so he's had a few cultural adjustments to make.  A lot of it is minor like the fact that people don't have a problem making small talk with total strangers. 

I think the biggest one, though, is probably the difference in what southerners and northerners consider polite.  From what I've seen, direct simple honesty seems to be what northerners see as polite even if the truth hurts.  In the South it's considered rude to be too honest.  Northerners generally come off here as blunt to the point of being very rude.  We are very indirect, and we generally avoid topics of conversation that might rock the boat.  We will be nice around people that we despise.  My husband sees it as lying, but here it's just basic politeness.  We don't make any assumptions that being nice to somebody = liking them. 

Maybe that's just my personal experience.  I'm curious to see if anybody else with experience on both sides of the Mason-Dixon Line has seen the same thing.   



Coming from a town in Florida that was primarily northerners, moving to a small town in the south, I would absolutely agree with this.

It comes across as very insincere to me and I hate the fact that all conversations are very scripted, with little room for substance or honesty. When we go visit my hometown, though, my husband is shocked at everyone's rudeness (which I see as honesty).

You can have conversations with substance, but you have to get to know somebody first.  With northerners, it's hard to get through the front door so to speak, but once you're in you have free run of the whole house.  With southerners, anybody can come sit in the front room, but it will be a while before you're lounging in the back den petting the cat.  Conversations with aquantainces are light, fluffy, and superficial, but we can be brutally honest in private with close friends and family. 

Spork

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Re: Moving south?
« Reply #35 on: March 13, 2017, 01:49:32 PM »
I've lived all over, both the Carolinas (sorry couldn't pay me to go back to Fayettenam), Athens, Atlanta, Augusta in GA, LA, bum fuck VA, DC, NY, NJ, MA, NH, ME...and that is just the east coast.

Starting small you are 100% correct.  I'm a direct person, and honesty is not considered the best policy in the south.  Everything is sugar coated with fake "kindness" to within an inch of it's life.  Like you have to pry the truth out of a pixie stick full of fake feels.  It used to drive me batty! That and the whole passive aggressive "I hate your guts but Bless Your Heart" BS.

Religion is a big one.  Are you religious?  Then you should fit in fine so long as you can conform to whatever church you go to's interpretation of the bible.  Not super religious, and not really good at faking it...you will be the anti christ in most parts of the south.  Small towns, yea you'll be a stranger until the day you die, but at least they will be nice to your face.

Oh and I hope you like football.  It's life.  And I mean even middle school and high school football, it's like a town wide event on Fridays in most smaller areas.  College....well, I did my graduate degree in GA...and I can't really describe it.  It's a cultural thing, I just never really "got" it (to be fair I don't get the NFL thing either).  Oh and don't show up to a game in jeans and a Tshirt.  You need to be wearing your Sunday best dress.

Just remember a good chunk of the South still has a huge antebellum and debutant culture.  Like Junior Leagues are HUGE the further south you go. Having grown up in the north, moving down south was a HUGE cultural shock the first time.  You get used to it, just like you do everything else in life.  You learn new things like cow bells are cool, and what the hell "farm parties" are (your kids will learn that one), and that grits really can taste good and not like mashed up tasteless baby food.  You adapt, you appreciate different things etc. 

Don't expect anything to go on a timely schedule. People just move sloooooowwww compared to the northeast.  They talk slower, they cook your food slower, hell they WALK slower.  They aren't slow people but they physically move slow as molasses compared to the north between all of the expected small talk and the "summer heat"


Omg, this has me dying!!!

FWIW, as an atheist that hates football in the south, I can tell you that while MishMash is not totally wrong... take it tongue in cheek.  Yes, there are people that will totally hate you for being different.  But it isn't everyone.  If you walk up to them and say "Hi, I'm an atheist that hates football and I wanted to tell you that your monster truck is stupid"... you will likely get a negative reaction.  If you get to know them FIRST... then tell them all that... it will likely be fine.

startingsmall

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Re: Moving south?
« Reply #36 on: March 13, 2017, 02:13:12 PM »
You should be aware that there are a few cultural differences between the North and the South.  My husband is from a small town in PA, and so he's had a few cultural adjustments to make.  A lot of it is minor like the fact that people don't have a problem making small talk with total strangers. 

I think the biggest one, though, is probably the difference in what southerners and northerners consider polite.  From what I've seen, direct simple honesty seems to be what northerners see as polite even if the truth hurts.  In the South it's considered rude to be too honest.  Northerners generally come off here as blunt to the point of being very rude.  We are very indirect, and we generally avoid topics of conversation that might rock the boat.  We will be nice around people that we despise.  My husband sees it as lying, but here it's just basic politeness.  We don't make any assumptions that being nice to somebody = liking them. 

Maybe that's just my personal experience.  I'm curious to see if anybody else with experience on both sides of the Mason-Dixon Line has seen the same thing.   



Coming from a town in Florida that was primarily northerners, moving to a small town in the south, I would absolutely agree with this.

It comes across as very insincere to me and I hate the fact that all conversations are very scripted, with little room for substance or honesty. When we go visit my hometown, though, my husband is shocked at everyone's rudeness (which I see as honesty).

Oh god, I am so direct. Not always honest to a fault, but direct. Which is funny bc I was at a leadership conference recently with a lot of southerners and this was mentioned about me lol

Yeah, me too. I struggle here A LOT.... even after 10 years. I either open my mouth and people think I'm rude and weird, or I try to stay quiet and come across as snobbish. My lack of interest in small talk, cooking/shopping talk, and faking niceness doesn't work well here.

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Re: Moving south?
« Reply #37 on: March 13, 2017, 03:03:43 PM »
We moved from Long Island NY to Fort Mill SC (10 minutes from Charlotte). It has grown here in the past 5 years like crazy.  Great school district and all the amenities you could want. 2.25 hrs to Asheville, and 3 hrs to Charleston SC.

Never moving back to LI, besides who could afford it!

MishMash

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Re: Moving south?
« Reply #38 on: March 13, 2017, 03:13:48 PM »
I've lived all over, both the Carolinas (sorry couldn't pay me to go back to Fayettenam), Athens, Atlanta, Augusta in GA, LA, bum fuck VA, DC, NY, NJ, MA, NH, ME...and that is just the east coast.

Starting small you are 100% correct.  I'm a direct person, and honesty is not considered the best policy in the south.  Everything is sugar coated with fake "kindness" to within an inch of it's life.  Like you have to pry the truth out of a pixie stick full of fake feels.  It used to drive me batty! That and the whole passive aggressive "I hate your guts but Bless Your Heart" BS.

Religion is a big one.  Are you religious?  Then you should fit in fine so long as you can conform to whatever church you go to's interpretation of the bible.  Not super religious, and not really good at faking it...you will be the anti christ in most parts of the south.  Small towns, yea you'll be a stranger until the day you die, but at least they will be nice to your face.

Oh and I hope you like football.  It's life.  And I mean even middle school and high school football, it's like a town wide event on Fridays in most smaller areas.  College....well, I did my graduate degree in GA...and I can't really describe it.  It's a cultural thing, I just never really "got" it (to be fair I don't get the NFL thing either).  Oh and don't show up to a game in jeans and a Tshirt.  You need to be wearing your Sunday best dress.

Just remember a good chunk of the South still has a huge antebellum and debutant culture.  Like Junior Leagues are HUGE the further south you go. Having grown up in the north, moving down south was a HUGE cultural shock the first time.  You get used to it, just like you do everything else in life.  You learn new things like cow bells are cool, and what the hell "farm parties" are (your kids will learn that one), and that grits really can taste good and not like mashed up tasteless baby food.  You adapt, you appreciate different things etc. 

Don't expect anything to go on a timely schedule. People just move sloooooowwww compared to the northeast.  They talk slower, they cook your food slower, hell they WALK slower.  They aren't slow people but they physically move slow as molasses compared to the north between all of the expected small talk and the "summer heat"


Omg, this has me dying!!!

FWIW, as an atheist that hates football in the south, I can tell you that while MishMash is not totally wrong... take it tongue in cheek.  Yes, there are people that will totally hate you for being different.  But it isn't everyone.  If you walk up to them and say "Hi, I'm an atheist that hates football and I wanted to tell you that your monster truck is stupid"... you will likely get a negative reaction.  If you get to know them FIRST... then tell them all that... it will likely be fine.

Totally tongue in cheek...except the atheist part.  I was dead serious on that one.  Even people I got to know either stopped talking to me or tried their damndest to make me "come to Jesus".  More times then I can count.    I'd say that, and the fact that I was mid 20's without a desire to get married and have babies were the two things that ostracized me the most in GA and LA...there it seemed like you were an old maid if you weren't married with a couple kids by 25-26.  Conversation usually went along the lines of the below, usually to an older shop keep or a person I met at the market or a few times to someone my age that was looking for the Mrs degree.

"Oh!  Welcome to GA, don't you just love it here!"
Me: "Oh it's gorgeous, I'm excited to go exploring more"
other person: "oh yes dear there is SO much to see!  Is your husband going to come down while you finish grad school"
Me:  "I don't have a husband"
OP; "oh, well surely you have a serious beau (yes, the word beau was routinely used)"
Me:  "Nope, just me"
OP:  "Well, now, you need to get on fixing that, how else are you going to have babies before you are too old too!"
Me:  "Well, I'm not really too focused on kids at this point, I just need to finish my degree, get a job, pay off those student loans, that's my biggest worry"
OP....stare at me like I'm a circus side show followed by a harumph and an "I see" "bless your heart" "well I'll pray for you" "oh god can change those plans"  "money shouldn't be the first thing on your mind" etc comment. 

College towns are more liberal for sure.  Athens was cool, and I think I would have loved undergrad there, but having gone there just for grad school, man, I was old, I'm not a "let's get wasted at the 200 bars and frat houses, blow all my money, then pass out in the street" kind of person and that seemed like the popular thing there.  But man, yard sales and estate sales down there....dear god those were amazing.  I made so much side cash reselling stuff in grad school it pretty much funded everything the scholarship didn't lol.

use2betrix

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Re: Moving south?
« Reply #39 on: March 13, 2017, 05:26:35 PM »
I grew up in a small town in the north cenfral US. I have since spent 8 years down south, primarily south central but also 8 months in a Florida and a year in Alabama.

If you don't want to hate your life you're going to have to be VERY selective being a liberal feminist and wanting to live in a small town down south. Granted, you could always keep your views to yourself and not get bent out of shape about others views, but I have yet to meet a liberal feminist who doesn't like to make it known to everyone. I think you'd probably be best off living in a bigger city, as most small towns seems to be pretty conservative in the south.

Personally. I hate the southern heat. I spent a year in PA a couple years ago and it was great. Politically the people don't here are "meh" but I'm an independent true and true. I'd be every bit as miserable with the people in California as I would those in Louisiana. Well, it really depends on the president. When Obama was president, the southern conservatives got insanely annoying and it pushed me more left. Now that Trump is president and I see liberals whining worse than the conservatives ever did, it pushed me back a little right lol.

I find the people down south often seem to go above and beyond once they get to know you. More outgoing and friendly. But the people up north I find more friendly in everyday life whether you know them or not, if that makes sense.

Spork

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Re: Moving south?
« Reply #40 on: March 13, 2017, 05:32:41 PM »

Totally tongue in cheek...except the atheist part.  I was dead serious on that one.  Even people I got to know either stopped talking to me or tried their damndest to make me "come to Jesus".  More times then I can count.    I'd say that, and the fact that I was mid 20's without a desire to get married and have babies were the two things that ostracized me the most in GA and LA...

For what it's worth: I've been an "out" atheist in Texas for over 30 years, much of it in small towns.  (And my wife was one of those "didn't want babies" people.)  I get what you're saying.  But there were also a fat lot of people that just didn't care.

I also found I could deflect much of this with language.  For new folks, when they asked about religion, I said "I'm not religious" instead of "atheist".  I don't know why, but the "A word" seems to set some people off.  After I'd known someone for several months, I relaxed my language.  YMMV.

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Re: Moving south?
« Reply #41 on: March 13, 2017, 06:28:37 PM »
I'm thinking small city not small town. I definitely could not do small town or rural. I think most of the cities are smallish except Atlanta?  And no Florida, probably.

use2betrix

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Re: Moving south?
« Reply #42 on: March 13, 2017, 06:53:36 PM »
Spork could not be more spot on with the "A" word. My experience exactly. I should also add, I would find it 1000x easier to be atheist in a predominantly Christian area, than I would to be a far left liberal in a vastly conservative area. People anymore seem to openly talk about politics wayyyyy more than religion.

ETBen, I think small city would be much better than a smaller town. I'd aim for around 100k-150k minimum and a liberal college town and you'd be good to go. I'm moving to a town similar to those stats next week in the SE, we'll see how it goes. Meets all those requirements I just listed.

MarioMario

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Re: Moving south?
« Reply #43 on: March 14, 2017, 12:49:40 AM »
I will just point out that the weather isn't like socal in many parts of the traditional South, cold weather is becoming more common. And there are other annoying weather issues to deal with.

In other words the South isn't some homogeneous climates of 70 degrees every day.

dougules

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Re: Moving south?
« Reply #44 on: March 14, 2017, 07:01:38 AM »
I will just point out that the weather isn't like socal in many parts of the traditional South, cold weather is becoming more common. And there are other annoying weather issues to deal with.

In other words the South isn't some homogeneous climates of 70 degrees every day.

My husband's take on it is that you don't have to shovel heat.  I didn't see my first snowblower until I was 32.

That being said, if you did have to shovel heat, you'd be digging absolutely nonstop from May to September.

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Re: Moving south?
« Reply #45 on: March 14, 2017, 07:39:10 AM »
Anecdotally, when my Asian friend from SoCal visits me in Charleston SC, she often remarks that she is the only minority everywhere we go.  It is a rare occurence to see another person of Asian descent.  That may or may not bother you.

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Re: Moving south?
« Reply #46 on: March 14, 2017, 09:02:54 AM »
I will just point out that the weather isn't like socal in many parts of the traditional South, cold weather is becoming more common. And there are other annoying weather issues to deal with.

In other words the South isn't some homogeneous climates of 70 degrees every day.

My husband's take on it is that you don't have to shovel heat.  I didn't see my first snowblower until I was 32.

That being said, if you did have to shovel heat, you'd be digging absolutely nonstop from May to September.
You don't but depending upon where you live you may have to deal with hurricanes or humidity.

MarioMario

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Re: Moving south?
« Reply #47 on: March 14, 2017, 09:02:54 AM »
I will just point out that the weather isn't like socal in many parts of the traditional South, cold weather is becoming more common. And there are other annoying weather issues to deal with.

In other words the South isn't some homogeneous climates of 70 degrees every day.

My husband's take on it is that you don't have to shovel heat.  I didn't see my first snowblower until I was 32.

That being said, if you did have to shovel heat, you'd be digging absolutely nonstop from May to September.

You don't but depending upon where you live you may have to deal with hurricanes or humidity.

FrugalFisherman10

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Re: Moving south?
« Reply #48 on: March 27, 2017, 12:00:54 PM »
I will just point out that the weather isn't like socal in many parts of the traditional South, cold weather is becoming more common. And there are other annoying weather issues to deal with.

In other words the South isn't some homogeneous climates of 70 degrees every day.

My husband's take on it is that you don't have to shovel heat.  I didn't see my first snowblower until I was 32.

That being said, if you did have to shovel heat, you'd be digging absolutely nonstop from May to September.

Haha this is great! never heard that before. I've lived in the south all my life (Atlanta) and my take on the cold here is that it actually can feel brutally cold in the winter, for the same reason it feels super hot in the summer, you guessed it, humidity. The humidity seems to pull the 'feels like' temperatures to more extreme in both directions, atleast in my experience/opinion.
My main point of comparison is dry but cold experiences like skiing out west in high altitudes. 30 degrees on a mountain in Colorado on a sunny day feels like 75 degrees in Atlanta (i.e. you'll be sweating in long sleeves/pants). Although this may have more to do with the altitude and it's effects on your blood and heart, but I don't know the science behind all that to conclude.
Alas, you don't have to shovel humid cold either, so it's still better than 'up north'.

(Often overlooked, subtle, lingo tip: If the OP does move to the south, when we say 'up north' like I just did, we're almost always referring to the Northeast. This excludes what I would call the midwest and the pacific north west. Not sure why.)


dougules

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Re: Moving south?
« Reply #49 on: March 27, 2017, 12:40:15 PM »
I will just point out that the weather isn't like socal in many parts of the traditional South, cold weather is becoming more common. And there are other annoying weather issues to deal with.

In other words the South isn't some homogeneous climates of 70 degrees every day.

My husband's take on it is that you don't have to shovel heat.  I didn't see my first snowblower until I was 32.

That being said, if you did have to shovel heat, you'd be digging absolutely nonstop from May to September.

Haha this is great! never heard that before. I've lived in the south all my life (Atlanta) and my take on the cold here is that it actually can feel brutally cold in the winter, for the same reason it feels super hot in the summer, you guessed it, humidity. The humidity seems to pull the 'feels like' temperatures to more extreme in both directions, atleast in my experience/opinion.
My main point of comparison is dry but cold experiences like skiing out west in high altitudes. 30 degrees on a mountain in Colorado on a sunny day feels like 75 degrees in Atlanta (i.e. you'll be sweating in long sleeves/pants). Although this may have more to do with the altitude and it's effects on your blood and heart, but I don't know the science behind all that to conclude.
Alas, you don't have to shovel humid cold either, so it's still better than 'up north'.

(Often overlooked, subtle, lingo tip: If the OP does move to the south, when we say 'up north' like I just did, we're almost always referring to the Northeast. This excludes what I would call the midwest and the pacific north west. Not sure why.)

My father in law is from MN and says the coldest he's been was in the Army in Louisiana.  Humidity really amplifies both cold and heat. 

Thicker air at low altitude does, too, though.  We just took a trip to Ecuador where it went down into the upper 40s at night but a very light jacket was plenty.  We were at 9000'. 

Around here "Up North" can be either the Northeast or the Midwest.  I think a lot of Southerners don't know the differences between the Midwest and Northeast or even exactly where "The Midwest" refers to.   Since I've gotten out a little more I've realized that the Midwest is probably slightly closer to the South culturally than to the Northeast, but when I was younger I had no idea there was any difference between Connecticut and Wisconsin.