Moving Seattle to Boston in Fall 2015

[littlebird]

My husband and I are planning a move from Seattle to the Boston area, probably in September 2015. About us: both software developers, him with ~8 years experience and me transitioning out of Biomedical Research, my first job in software will be one I get back East, I'm completing a BS in CS right now. Late 20's, no kids (yet). Financially this move makes close to zero sense, as my husband will almost certainly take at least a small pay cut and the cost of living is also a bit higher in Boston, but I grew up in the East (DC metro area) and all of my family is in New England. I can't take the weather here any more and I want to be close to my family when we start having kids. September is when our lease is up, is a couple months after I graduate and allows us to spend one last glorious summer in Seattle.

Now that 2015 is here it's time for us to start hashing out a real plan for how this huge move is going to go. Basically our plan now is to sell as much of our cheap/bulky furniture as possible and fit the rest of our worldly goods into a pod. We're hoping to build the cross-country drive in the one car we own into a tour of some of the National Parks, camping along the way. Ideally we'd both have jobs lined up before we go, we'd arrive and rent an apartment short-term somewhere in Boston while figuring out which one of the suburbs we'd like to buy a house in (near public transit/bikeable).

Anyway my questions follow. Has anyone used one of those pod services and how did it go? I've heard something about the rental market in Boston requiring the use of an agent; how does that work? Is it dumb to move to a city without housing lined up already (we could stay with family for a short time, maybe a week)? My husband is from Idaho and has lived all his life in the West so I'm a little worried about culture shock for him, anyone else dealt with and survived that? Tips for conducting a cross-country job search? Anyone have general tips for making a big cross-country move? The last time I made a move of this magnitude, I came with 2 suitcases and shipped a couple of boxes through UPS, aka I owned almost nothing.

[vhalros]

Is it dumb to move to a city without housing lined up already (we could stay with family for a short time, a week)?

Yes. It can be hard to find good apartments; what do you do if you run out of time?

I've heard something about the rental market in Boston requiring the use of an agent; how does that work?

You don't necessarily need one; I've found all but one of the apartments I rented with out one. They contract with landlords, and will show you a bunch of apartments. If you rent one of the ones they show you, you pay them a fee of one months rent; otherwise you owe them nothing. They are expensive, but can be helpful because you get to look at many places in a short span of time; the agent can setup a schedule and show you several apartments in one day. If you have to schedule individually with a bunch of landlords it can sometimes be difficult to make the schedules line up.  Also, it is worth noting that the landlord will often pay all of, or part of, the agent fee, and that this is totally negotiable.

As far as where to live, I'd suggest avoiding Boston itself if you are interested in saving money (which I assume you are, since why else would you be here :) ). Suburbs connected by the T are pretty convenient, and lots of software engineer jobs are not downtown any way.

[BrooklineBiker]

Hi,
Leases in Boston, Cambridge, Brookline, Somerville, and other student areas turn over en masse in August and September of each year. The students swamp the rental market even at the luxury level. If you need to rent consider a town outside of those areas. Belmont is less expensive and has a MBTA trolley line into Cambridge, where you can connect with subways. Public schools are good in Belmont for kids. Schools are weak in all of the colege towns save Brookline, where they are excellent.

[chemgeek]

I would not move without having housing lined up. September is huge rental turn over. When I was in grad school, people were signing leases for September moves as early as the March before in the more heavy student areas. Sublets are abundant in the summer, but not so much in the fall. You aren't required to use an agent, but most landlords go through an agency because it's easier for them and will get apartments rented faster. If you really want to avoid paying the agent fee, you can filter your search on craigslist to listings posted by the landlord only.
If you're commuting to work by T, really consider where you live. The green line (in particular the B line) is generally miserable and not all that reliable. Red and Orange lines are better. I'm not sure how much you're planning on dropping on a place when you do buy, but keep that in mind when determining if a short-term rental is really a good plan. The housing market in Boston and the surrounding suburbs ( even to 35-40 mins away) moves quickly. Especially in the closer cities, like Malden/Watertown/Cambridge/Roslindale/Jamaica Plain, bidding wars are very common as are full cash offers. Even with 20% and good credit, it's not easy to get a property if you're not willing to go quite a bit over asking price. Just something to keep in mind. Personally, I would take a year lease and worry about breaking the lease and paying a fee if you buy within the year.

I grew up in Somerville (which, to the dismay of long-time residents, has been converted to a young professionals playground) so I take slight offense to BrooklineBiker's assessment of the schools.

[Roland of Gilead]

Are you really ready to give up Seattle as a software engineer?  It is one of the hottest areas for that field.

$250,000+ salary as a senior software engineer not even going into sales or management.  Microsoft, Amazon, Google, Apple

Agree the weather bites out here though.   It is nice for the two weeks of summer.

[littlebird]

Thanks for all of the housing help! I guess we'll try to lock down a place when we go on interviewing trips. The apartment market is pretty hot in Seattle, but more on the order of make the decision the day you see a place, rather than choose it months in advance.

As for staying in Seattle for the money, I'd say this move is only 20% about getting out of Seattle and 80% about getting back close to my family. I think we'll do OK financially in the Boston area and being close to family is priceless to me.

[Freedom2016]

Is it dumb to move to a city without housing lined up already (we could stay with family for a short time, maybe a week)?

Agree with others - unless your family in Boston is willing to let you stay for a lot longer, you don't want to move here in the fall without housing. I don't think I've ever paid a rental agent's fee when renting in Boston (apts in Cambridge and Somerville) and I've relied on Craigslist for listings. (I lived in Cambridge for a year and Somerville for 5 yrs, now DH and I own a place in Roslindale.)

My husband is from Idaho and has lived all his life in the West so I'm a little worried about culture shock for him, anyone else dealt with and survived that?

I moved to Boston from the midwest in the early 1990's and had major culture shock, but much of that was because I had never lived in a "big" city before (I had corn fields across the street from my house growing up), had never used public transit, wasn't used to the noise and bustle. How much culture shock is your hubby going to experience, having lived in Seattle? I can't imagine the transition from Seattle to Boston being all that rough. I will say that it took me a long time to get used to the lack of friendliness with strangers in Boston. Where I was from, strangers struck up conversation all the time, exchanged smiles and greetings on the sidewalk, etc. It seemed like people in Boston were downright rude for not doing those things. Now, though, I find myself behaving just like native Bostonians. :)

Regarding real estate, Belmont and Winchester (IIRC) have good schools. Look at the commuter rail communities as well, Lexington and Concord might be options too, depending on your budget. I don't know the south shore communities very well but think I've heard good things about Milton.

[TerriM]

Anyway my questions follow. Has anyone used one of those pod services and how did it go? I've heard something about the rental market in Boston requiring the use of an agent; how does that work? Is it dumb to move to a city without housing lined up already (we could stay with family for a short time, maybe a week)? My husband is from Idaho and has lived all his life in the West so I'm a little worried about culture shock for him, anyone else dealt with and survived that? Tips for conducting a cross-country job search? Anyone have general tips for making a big cross-country move? The last time I made a move of this magnitude, I came with 2 suitcases and shipped a couple of boxes through UPS, aka I owned almost nothing.

Rental market does not require an agent--some apartments are shown by the owner/landlord, some are shown by an agent.  It'll depend on the apartment as to whether or not you need to tour it with an agent.  Check who pays the fee--sometimes it is the landlord, sometimes it's you.  The statements regarding rentals turning over in June/September are true--and many of those leases were signed in March/July.  But if you get farther out, it should be more fluid.  Lexington, Belmont, possibly even Arlington.  If you move off-season (say, in February), it'll be easier to find an apartment in the college areas.
 
Is the weather in Seattle really worse than Boston?  I guess you're trading cloudy skies for sunny but frickin' cold with ugly snow.  Why not move to DC if you're family is there?  Your husband's biggest shock will probably not be a culture shock, but a weather shock.

I'd get at least one job offer first and see if they'll pay for the move.   When we moved from Boston to CA, it was entirely covered by my husband's new company.  Sometimes they'll offer you a set amount of money for the move, and it's your choice to pay to move your stuff, or to sell and buy new stuff.    For us they offered to pay for the entire move.

Before you decide where to move to, I highly recommend both having a job offer AND looking into the housing market first.  Both Boston and DC are serviced by Redfin.  Go to their site and look at prices in relation to schools, then get on the forums for each city and ask questions.  Having moved to the Bay Area and finding out that I'm screwed housing wise, I don't intend to move again without doing thorough research into the housing market.  Use padmapper.com to look at the rental market.

[dilinger]

I made this move in the other direction back in 2010.  My main gripes about Boston are the weather!  Seattle weather is great in comparison.  :)

We used a pod, it worked out great.  If I had to move cross-country again, that's how I would do it.

In Seattle, you find an apartment a week before you move in.  In Boston, you find an apartment 3+ months before you move in.  That was a bit of a shock to us, as we actually took a trip to Seattle 2 months before moving to find a place to live, but no one was advertising places for rent that far out.  So definitely get your housing situation sorted out before moving out there.  Worst case, find some friends who are looking for a housemate situation; live there while you search for your own place.

I've never used an agent to find a place to live - Craigslist always worked just fine.  That said, we rented our condo out for a few years using an agent, mostly because we were able to charge more for rent.  The people using agents tended to be willing to pay more for rent.

Living on the Red Line (in Somerville/Cambridge) is the way to go.  I lived in Davis and Porter, and they're both wonderfully walkable, friendly, and _dense_.  You'll meet friends/coworkers who live just a few blocks away, which makes it incredibly convenient to hang out with them.  On the flip-side, we almost never visited friends who lived in Brookline, because the Green Line was so awful.  Biking there was kind of a pain, too (not in terms of distance or hills, but in terms of the unfriendly roads and drivers).  Boston proper is kind of dirty and gross; a friend who lived there always had black soot forming on his windows from the cars.

If you're looking for really cheap rent, check out Arlington or Lexington.  The 77 bus runs every 5-15 minutes, and goes to Harvard Sq (Red Line).  It's also along the Minuteman Trail, which is great for biking.  I lived in Arlington Heights, which was where the 77 ended, and right next to a Trader Joe's.  Since the buses waited at that bus stop, rather than having to wait in the cold, I could just hop right on the buses that were waiting for their scheduled departure time.  There are probably other gems like that out there, if you're willing to live a little further out.

Don't live so far out that you need to rely on the commuter rail.  It sucks (that's all I'm going to say about that), and the temptation to just get a car will be too great.  Also, don't work out there.  I had a job in Burlington for a while, which was awful to commute to; the bus only came every hour, and was slow.

At the time I was living there, the cost of housing was cheaper than paying rent.  I suspect that was due to the high number of college students who absolutely needed rentals, and had no interest in buying a place since they were only there for a few years.

Good luck!

[TerriM]

Actually Waltham is a great commuter rail ride if you're close to the station.  15 minutes to Porter square, 45 minute drive no matter which way you go back.

[OnTheMove]

Anyway my questions follow. Has anyone used one of those pod services and how did it go?

We moved from Seattle to NYC about three years ago and used one "pod" to move out and two to move back. We only lost one picture frame in both moves. One thing that really surprised us was the amount of compression that takes place as it makes it's way across the country. When we packed them they were full all the way to the top and when they arrived, there was about a foot of space at the top. Pack wisely and you'll be in good shape.

Just a few tips

1. We got the specs of the "pod" and used painters tape to create a mock up of the size to see what would actually fit in the container and we were surprised how small it was. We wound up getting rid of additional stuff to make it all fit.

2. When we moved to NYC we had two hours to unpack the entire "pod" before they were coming back to pick it up. We had to do a mad scramble to get it all into the lobby before they took it away. I'm pretty sure it was an NYC rule so I don't know if it applies to the general Boston area but something to ask about.

3. When we moved back to Seattle we were required to get a temporary permit to temporarily place the "pod" in front of our building. Or so they said. After getting the permit for it, I think it was ~$50 or so, the driver dropping off never asked to see it.

My husband is from Idaho and has lived all his life in the West so I'm a little worried about culture shock for him, anyone else dealt with and survived that?

I was born in GA but have lived most of my life in Seattle so I knew about the humidity but there's no way to know what humidity feels like unless you live in it. My wife is a native of Long Island and knew what we were getting into when we relocated but I was in for a bit of a shock. As long as he's looking forward to it I'm sure it will be great. Just remember to tell him what it means when someone says they're going to their "camp" for a vacation.

Anyone have general tips for making a big cross-country move?

Drive. It may or may not not qualify as mustachian but we drove both times and had the time of our lives. We went to baseball games, met really great people along the way, had great local food, and feel it was not something we could have gotten sitting in an airplane.

[littlebird]

My parents are retired now and no longer living in Virginia. I have no urge to move back. I know the weather in Boston isn't exactly tropical, but 40 degrees and raining like we have in Seattle makes it really tough to do anything outside while cold and sunny would still allow for outside activities. 9 months of grey and mist per year has gotten really old after 7 years of it. Seattle kinda has a self-cleansing thing going on. When I moved here I made a bunch of new transplant friends and now they're almost all gone. A city full of transients.

I think my husband will be OK with city living. I'm a little worried about the intensity of easterners compared to westerners. He's pretty flexible though so I'm sure he'll adjust.

Glad to hear we're not required to use an agent. It's hard planning such a huge move and finding jobs from so far away and I appreciate all of your insights!

[TerriM]

PS:  If you move to Boston, I highly recommend against living in Somerville if you need to have a car on street, even a guest's car.  Actually, I recommend against it period.  I said it in another thread, but Somerville tries to make most of its money by ticketing mercilessly.  It is definitely worse than Cambridge, and possibly worse than Boston itself, but I don't know.  They ticket on street cleaning days (4 a month), don't mark 20 feet to corner, start enforcing random statutes without notice, are allowed to ticket for "storage" (either 24 or 48 hours in the same spot without moving), have ticketed people for parking their bumper a mere 6" into a crosswalk on a small one-way street ($300 mistake for that poor fella) and getting a permit for a long-term guest to park on your street is a PIA and cannot be done without the person actually being there (i.e., you cannot get a guest permit ahead of time for a guest renting a car).  Traffic and Parking has no bathroom, so standing in line to either get long-term guest permits or protest a ticket is a PIA, especially while pregnant or with kids (so help me, I WISHED one of my kids would've just let it out on their floor to show them how stupid it is to refuse to let us use their bathroom).  You can't have a party where more than 3 guests drive from anywhere not in Somerville except on Sundays because you only have two guest permits, and no way to ask for an exemption.   So help me, I hate the place.  I will never live there again even if I move back to Boston.   EVER EVER EVER.

[TerriM]

PPS:  Also be aware that certain cities, like Arlington, do not allow street parking through the night except for guests with a pre approved pass.  No signs posted as residents are just supposed to know.  Check before you rent or buy the local laws.

[LionInTheHub]

+1 to the Waltham suggestion.  I shouldn't be splashing this all over the internet because I like my $950/month 2brm rental and easy access to Boston/Cambridge but, it can't stay secret for that much longer anyway.  Here are the main reasons I would advise you living in Waltham:

1) Cheap (relatively) and plenteous apartments - Like I said, I pay $950 for my 1000 sq ft 2 bedroom apt on the south side of town (Newton line) and I've never had an issue finding a place when I needed/wanted to move.  Granted, I have a sick scenario but, I can't be the only person that has discovered such phenomenal value in my apartment.   Also, if you want to buy, Waltham is a great value vs its direct neighbors.  I think the median house price is $400K?  Plus, property taxes here are insanely low which, impacts mainly the schools so, if you don't plan on staying here long enough to rely on the public schools, it would be a nobrainer to move here.

2) Transportation access - Public transportation isn't ideal hear but, I think that is why the rents are as cheap as they are.  Still, bus service into and around Boston is very good (there is an express bus into Boston from Waltham center that leaves every half hour) and the commuter rail is available as well.  One person recommended living in Belmont because you can take a bus ride into Harvard Sq and get on the red line.  Well, you can do the same thing in Waltham by bus or commuter rail (I don't know how cost effective using the Commuter Rail into Harvard Sq would be) and spend less on rent.  Lastly, although I realize this site eschews driving, Waltham is located at the cross roads of the two major highways in the area (128 (95) and the Mass Pike) so driving from Waltham to points east or west is the most convenient out of any town in the metro area.

3) Schools - Waltham is decently ranked but, clearly not as good as most of its wealthier neighbors (Newton, Lexington, Belmont, Weston).  That said, unless you really think there is a vast difference btw elementary schools in the towns around Waltham (hint: there isn't), you can quite confidently send your kids here thru at least the 5th grade and beyond that if you are serious about getting involved/supporting in your kid(s) school life.

4) Nightlife scene - There are some top notch restaurants/bars in Waltham especially on Moody St. although I wouldn't gather this is much of a concern for mustachians.  Check out The Gaff/Moody St. Provisions - great spot for beer/charcuterie.

5) Jobs - Waltham is home to some big tech/biotech companies on the north side of town and, although I don't work in those industries, word on the street is that they are growing rapidly.

6) Services - There is weekly trash/recycling pick up so, you don't have to worry about going to the town dump the way you would in towns outside Rte 128.  Also, the plowing situation here is excellent.  I mean, they clear the roads like nobody's business!

7) Bike path - the Charles River Reservation Bike Path deserves to be a reason in and of itself to live here because it is both beautiful and affords easy biking access to PHENOMENAL grocery stores like Russo's and cheap discount stores like Ocean State Job Lot.  I'm on that path multiple times per week.

8) Grocery Stores - Market Basket, a very cheap grocery chain, just opened up a flagship store on the west side of town.  Ridiculous prices here!  Also, the aformentioned Russo's is great for dirt cheap but high quality produce.

Best of luck with your move!

[chemgeek]

@TerriM: You could have applied for special parking considerations if you're hosting an event ahead of time ( at least that's how I interpret the website). I've never had to go to city hall for anything parking related. Residential sticker, visitor passes or contesting the one ticket so far I've all done online. I had far more tickets living in Allston. If my apartments hadn't come with off street parking, I would have paid for a spot or tried not to have a car. For snow in the winter alone, it's worth not having to fight other residents for shoveled out spots.

[TerriM]

@TerriM: You could have applied for special parking considerations if you're hosting an event ahead of time ( at least that's how I interpret the website). I've never had to go to city hall for anything parking related. Residential sticker, visitor passes or contesting the one ticket so far I've all done online. I had far more tickets living in Allston. If my apartments hadn't come with off street parking, I would have paid for a spot or tried not to have a car. For snow in the winter alone, it's worth not having to fight other residents for shoveled out spots.

I lived there 5 years ago, and I'm pretty sure I was told at that time that you could not get the special event parking.  I'm pretty sure that I asked because in Cambridge you could, but I could be wrong.  If that's changed, then great.

The sticker and guest passes come in the mail thankfully, but we always had to go into T&P in person to get a long-term guest pass and we had to bring them the vehicle registration!!!!  So if someone came in and rented a car, we had to wait for them to arrive and then take them in during business hours with the registration to get their long-term guest pass.  My understanding is that the registration is always supposed to stay with the car, so you'd be screwed if someone was in for a conference and couldn't get to T&P between 9am and 4pm or they'd be in trouble if you took the registration with you and they got into an accident.  My opinion, we should be able to tell them the license plate number and be done with it.

[LionInTheHub]

Parking is a HUGE consideration if you have a car and you plan to live inside Rte 128.  This is another reason Waltham rules.  It has abundant, free on-street parking and most apartments/houses come with off street parking and sometimes even garages.  Watertown and Belmont are also good in this regard.  Steer clear of places like Cambridge, Brookline, and Boston if this is a concern.  Believe me, parking is a BIG time hassle when it snows and you don't have a designated spot.

[TerriM]

If my apartments hadn't come with off street parking, I would have paid for a spot or tried not to have a car. For snow in the winter alone, it's worth not having to fight other residents for shoveled out spots.

I 100% agree with this.  We were lucky that I was home much of the time and parked on the "right" err correct side of the road for snow emergencies, but there were a couple of times we had to move it to one of the designated snow-parking areas.  Walking to get your car back from the designated overflow areas in the snow was also a real PIA especially one night where the snow emergency lifted in the evening and someone had to walk back in the dark.

Also, the plows have been known to run into cars or to damage them with the snow.

[Mr. Frugalwoods]

Cantabrigian caucus chiming in!  (Yes, that's what people from Cambridge call themselves :-) )

Most of what everyone says is true. 

Sept. 1 is an Apocalypse Now bacchanal anarchy of many 10's of thousands of people playing musical apartments with one another.

Unless you need to move in that day, don't.  Even if your lease starts Sept 1, move in a week later.

We love Cambridge but it is pretty expensive.  The saving grace is that I can bike to work and Mrs. FW has a 7 minute drive.  We consider a lack of commute nearly priceless!

Somerville is the new Cambridge, and Medford is the new Somerville.  Prices have moved appropriately.

I'd wait until you know where at least one of you will be working and choose a location based on that.  Rent for a year, explore lots of neighborhoods, and then decide where to settle.  We've lived all over, but we liked the Inman Square neighborhood in Cambridge the best.

[littlebird]

We're hoping to be making a slow drive cross country for most of the month of September, with moving in in Boston in October, so hopefully that will get us in after the crazy college rush! Everything is definitely very ephemeral until we actually start looking for jobs there. I figure we'll start that process in April or May and if all goes well at least one of us will have a job before we move.

There are so many variables still up in the air that it makes it almost impossible to plan, but I'm a planner and a worrier so I'm trying to get a handle on what I can. Plus our friends and family have been hassling us for details and we haven't any! I really appreciate all of the specific info on neighborhoods. It's so helpful to get the inside scoop on the best and worst places to live. Parking sounds like a huge hassle, but I can't see us going without a car entirely. Skiing, hiking and playing Ultimate Frisbee are big parts of our lives and you need a car to get to most of those things. As it is in Seattle the car stays parked all week and is used heavily on the weekends to get to the mountains. Ideally we'll be able to maintain that kind of usage when we move.

I started stalking redfin over a year ago when I first started thinking about the viability of moving back so I think I have a general idea of house prices in various suburbs. Houses are expensive, it's true, but there are houses in our price range that meet my square-foot/yard/school requirements. Growing up in Northern Virginia and living in Seattle actually makes the thought of buying a house in Boston-metro easier to stomach than if we were from a less expensive area. It's unfortunate that all of the best places to live with the most job opportunities are so expensive, but I guess that's why we're all on an early retirement forum! Some day we won't have to worry about the jobs part and can live in cool, less-expensive places.

[intirb]

Parking sounds like a huge hassle, but I can't see us going without a car entirely. Skiing, hiking and playing Ultimate Frisbee are big parts of our lives and you need a car to get to most of those things. As it is in Seattle the car stays parked all week and is used heavily on the weekends to get to the mountains. Ideally we'll be able to maintain that kind of usage when we move.

Where are you two ultimately going to be working?  That'll make a big difference.

We live in Cambridge and we don't have a car.  We're also avid hikers, etc.  You can get to decent hiking in Boston with a subway + bike combination (or even just the subway!), and zipcar is ubiquitous for the weekends you want mountains (usually we head up to the whites).  Plus, if you have outdoorsy friends, you can carpool or split the costs.  I guess you'll have to do the math and see if insurance + gas + maintenance + parking is really cheaper or not.

Unless you need to move in that day, don't.  Even if your lease starts Sept 1, move in a week later.

Agreed, though if you think you'll still need to fill your apartment, Allston Christmas (9/1) is the best way to find pretty much anything on the streets for free.  Obvious disclaimers about bed bugs and upholstery apply, but I've found all my hangers and lighting this way!

[dilinger]

I became car-free while living in Somerville.  The horror stories about parking in Somerville are true; but you won't actually need a car in Cambridge/Somerville.  Even going up to NH every weekend to climb, it was still cheaper to rent a car when I needed it.  We owned a condo with a deeded parking spot in Somerville, and rented it out for $125/mo after getting rid of the car.   I have very little pity for people who whine about car stuff in Somerville.  It's not at all like Seattle, which is spread out and with tons of space for cars.