Author Topic: Motorcycles: Mustachian alternative, or sucka hobby?  (Read 5554 times)

JordanOfGilead

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Motorcycles: Mustachian alternative, or sucka hobby?
« on: February 15, 2017, 11:46:14 AM »
I've recently gotten into riding and am discovering that it can be a pretty expensive hobby if you let it get away from you.

I have one friend that lives in a warmer climate, buys all kinds of things for his motorcycles (luggage boxes, and safety/maintenance equipment mostly), but doesn't own a car. He commutes on his bike rain or shine and claims that the savings in fuel and insurance alone are substantial.

I have another friend that lives in a more temperate climate that rides, but only buys parts that are absolutely essential for his bike to run. He does it as a hobby, but still claims to save the value of his bike plus some in fuel and maintenance costs.

What do you guys think?

prognastat

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Re: Motorcycles: Mustachian alternative, or sucka hobby?
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2017, 11:52:35 AM »
It can be done reasonably affordable if you don't lose control.

However due to increased risk of injury, increased insurance alone it likely isn't a very mustachian alternative. This from someone that has had one and loved riding it. It also isn't the greatest if the weather gets too wet, cold or hot. AS far as getting to a workplace where you are expected to be presentable.

I would say you can do it and effectively break even vs owning a car, but you lose out on some of the flexibility you'd have with a car or car and bicycle combo.

The moment you start buying "luxury" bikes and getting tons of add-ons and doing more for maintenance than necessary making it  a status symbol then costs quickly spiral out of control and it quickly becomes more umustachian than buying an expensive Truck/Large SUV.

plog

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Re: Motorcycles: Mustachian alternative, or sucka hobby?
« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2017, 11:52:57 AM »
Like everything, its relative...and the motorcycle part is a red herring. 

What's the financial context of this discussion?  Is it stupid for someone with a net worth of $10k to spend $5k a year on [InsertAnyHobbyHere]?  Yes.  Is it stupid for someone with a net worth of $50 million to spend $25k a year on [InsertAnyHobbyHere]?  No.

Its fine to value things I don't value and spend money on them, just don't think it justifies spending money you can't afford on it.

MrMoogle

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Re: Motorcycles: Mustachian alternative, or sucka hobby?
« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2017, 12:38:25 PM »
However due to increased risk of injury, increased insurance alone it likely isn't a very mustachian alternative. This from someone that has had one and loved riding it.
You mean medical insurance?  I'm still employed, so I don't worry about this yet.  Is there a box to check normally if you apply for insurance for motorcycle riding?

I'm a daily rider, I can pretty much ride year around.  I also have a classic car that I'll ride if they're threatening tornados, but otherwise, I prefer not to drive it. 

2 years ago, I spent ~$4500 on a Suzuki V-Strom 650 with 6k miles, some accessories, a used helmet and jacket.  I've since spent another ~$1200 on gear and a change of tires.  I'm tall, and couldn't find anything on craigslist that would fit, so I bought everything on sale new.  At my rate, it should last 10 years or so, without much more put into it other than gas and oil.

I really like to ride, and while this might be slightly more expensive and less practical than other options, it was an easy decision. 

I might not be super frugal with it, it certainly doesn't have to be anti-mustachian. 

prognastat

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Re: Motorcycles: Mustachian alternative, or sucka hobby?
« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2017, 12:43:44 PM »
However due to increased risk of injury, increased insurance alone it likely isn't a very mustachian alternative. This from someone that has had one and loved riding it.
You mean medical insurance?  I'm still employed, so I don't worry about this yet.  Is there a box to check normally if you apply for insurance for motorcycle riding?

I'm a daily rider, I can pretty much ride year around.  I also have a classic car that I'll ride if they're threatening tornados, but otherwise, I prefer not to drive it. 

2 years ago, I spent ~$4500 on a Suzuki V-Strom 650 with 6k miles, some accessories, a used helmet and jacket.  I've since spent another ~$1200 on gear and a change of tires.  I'm tall, and couldn't find anything on craigslist that would fit, so I bought everything on sale new.  At my rate, it should last 10 years or so, without much more put into it other than gas and oil.

I really like to ride, and while this might be slightly more expensive and less practical than other options, it was an easy decision. 

I might not be super frugal with it, it certainly doesn't have to be anti-mustachian.

Sorry, insurance for your motorcycle. Even more so if you just learned to ride a motorcycle this is either going to be costly.

And I agree it doesn't have to be anti-mustachian as long as your do it right. However I don't think it really can be considered Mustachian either though.

MrMoogle

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Re: Motorcycles: Mustachian alternative, or sucka hobby?
« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2017, 01:45:35 PM »
However due to increased risk of injury, increased insurance alone it likely isn't a very mustachian alternative. This from someone that has had one and loved riding it.
You mean medical insurance?  I'm still employed, so I don't worry about this yet.  Is there a box to check normally if you apply for insurance for motorcycle riding?

I'm a daily rider, I can pretty much ride year around.  I also have a classic car that I'll ride if they're threatening tornados, but otherwise, I prefer not to drive it. 

2 years ago, I spent ~$4500 on a Suzuki V-Strom 650 with 6k miles, some accessories, a used helmet and jacket.  I've since spent another ~$1200 on gear and a change of tires.  I'm tall, and couldn't find anything on craigslist that would fit, so I bought everything on sale new.  At my rate, it should last 10 years or so, without much more put into it other than gas and oil.

I really like to ride, and while this might be slightly more expensive and less practical than other options, it was an easy decision. 

I might not be super frugal with it, it certainly doesn't have to be anti-mustachian.

Sorry, insurance for your motorcycle. Even more so if you just learned to ride a motorcycle this is either going to be costly.

And I agree it doesn't have to be anti-mustachian as long as your do it right. However I don't think it really can be considered Mustachian either though.
Mine is only $25/month.  Definitely not breaking the bank.

JordanOfGilead

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Re: Motorcycles: Mustachian alternative, or sucka hobby?
« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2017, 01:48:44 PM »
However due to increased risk of injury, increased insurance alone it likely isn't a very mustachian alternative. This from someone that has had one and loved riding it.
You mean medical insurance?  I'm still employed, so I don't worry about this yet.  Is there a box to check normally if you apply for insurance for motorcycle riding?

I'm a daily rider, I can pretty much ride year around.  I also have a classic car that I'll ride if they're threatening tornados, but otherwise, I prefer not to drive it. 

2 years ago, I spent ~$4500 on a Suzuki V-Strom 650 with 6k miles, some accessories, a used helmet and jacket.  I've since spent another ~$1200 on gear and a change of tires.  I'm tall, and couldn't find anything on craigslist that would fit, so I bought everything on sale new.  At my rate, it should last 10 years or so, without much more put into it other than gas and oil.

I really like to ride, and while this might be slightly more expensive and less practical than other options, it was an easy decision. 

I might not be super frugal with it, it certainly doesn't have to be anti-mustachian.

Sorry, insurance for your motorcycle. Even more so if you just learned to ride a motorcycle this is either going to be costly.

And I agree it doesn't have to be anti-mustachian as long as your do it right. However I don't think it really can be considered Mustachian either though.
Motorcycle insurance isn't costly at all. As a new rider with no safety training (yet) my policy was $75/year. By comparison, my auto insurance is about $200/month (a lot of speeding tickets in the last few years). If I didn't live somewhere where it dropped below 40*F for 4 months out of the year, I wouldn't even drive, so I can totally see how saving money on vehicle insurance is feasible.

prognastat

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Re: Motorcycles: Mustachian alternative, or sucka hobby?
« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2017, 01:59:52 PM »
However due to increased risk of injury, increased insurance alone it likely isn't a very mustachian alternative. This from someone that has had one and loved riding it.
You mean medical insurance?  I'm still employed, so I don't worry about this yet.  Is there a box to check normally if you apply for insurance for motorcycle riding?

I'm a daily rider, I can pretty much ride year around.  I also have a classic car that I'll ride if they're threatening tornados, but otherwise, I prefer not to drive it. 

2 years ago, I spent ~$4500 on a Suzuki V-Strom 650 with 6k miles, some accessories, a used helmet and jacket.  I've since spent another ~$1200 on gear and a change of tires.  I'm tall, and couldn't find anything on craigslist that would fit, so I bought everything on sale new.  At my rate, it should last 10 years or so, without much more put into it other than gas and oil.

I really like to ride, and while this might be slightly more expensive and less practical than other options, it was an easy decision. 

I might not be super frugal with it, it certainly doesn't have to be anti-mustachian.

Sorry, insurance for your motorcycle. Even more so if you just learned to ride a motorcycle this is either going to be costly.

And I agree it doesn't have to be anti-mustachian as long as your do it right. However I don't think it really can be considered Mustachian either though.
Motorcycle insurance isn't costly at all. As a new rider with no safety training (yet) my policy was $75/year. By comparison, my auto insurance is about $200/month (a lot of speeding tickets in the last few years). If I didn't live somewhere where it dropped below 40*F for 4 months out of the year, I wouldn't even drive, so I can totally see how saving money on vehicle insurance is feasible.
The cheapest quotes I got after I completed training and got my license was about $400-$500 a year and that was bundled with my car.

Retire-Canada

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Re: Motorcycles: Mustachian alternative, or sucka hobby?
« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2017, 02:21:44 PM »
I've recently gotten into riding and am discovering that it can be a pretty expensive hobby if you let it get away from you.

I have one friend that lives in a warmer climate, buys all kinds of things for his motorcycles (luggage boxes, and safety/maintenance equipment mostly), but doesn't own a car. He commutes on his bike rain or shine and claims that the savings in fuel and insurance alone are substantial.

I have another friend that lives in a more temperate climate that rides, but only buys parts that are absolutely essential for his bike to run. He does it as a hobby, but still claims to save the value of his bike plus some in fuel and maintenance costs.

What do you guys think?

If you can replace a car with a moto it's a reasonable choice. If you are adding a moto to a car it's an expensive hobby. If your FIRE plans can support the slowdown to FIRE and the cost of the moto go for it, but be aware there is a significant price to pay. At my normal savings rate it would be an extra year or two of FT work to cover my moto costs.

Also consider the safety aspect. It's much easier to go from healthy to disabled on a moto vs. a car. If you are lucky in an accident it just means you'll miss some work. If you are unlucky you might need expensive support the rest of your life.

I have had a moto most of my life since I was 17yrs old. I love them. I also have come to see how much they have cost me. If I didn't own the moto I currently have [cheapish Japanese dual sport] I wouldn't be buying another until I was FIRE and my stash had grown well beyond my day-to-day needs.

As you note you can own a moto economically or you can spend a fortune on them. That part is up to you and doesn't have all that much to do with enjoying how they are to ride.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2017, 02:28:55 PM by Retire-Canada »

MilesTeg

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Re: Motorcycles: Mustachian alternative, or sucka hobby?
« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2017, 02:25:09 PM »
I've recently gotten into riding and am discovering that it can be a pretty expensive hobby if you let it get away from you.

I have one friend that lives in a warmer climate, buys all kinds of things for his motorcycles (luggage boxes, and safety/maintenance equipment mostly), but doesn't own a car. He commutes on his bike rain or shine and claims that the savings in fuel and insurance alone are substantial.

I have another friend that lives in a more temperate climate that rides, but only buys parts that are absolutely essential for his bike to run. He does it as a hobby, but still claims to save the value of his bike plus some in fuel and maintenance costs.

What do you guys think?

I would never ride a donormotorcycle after having heard about all the goings on at my local ER.

neo von retorch

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Re: Motorcycles: Mustachian alternative, or sucka hobby?
« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2017, 02:32:30 PM »
I've owned my motorcycle for about 6 years now.

Purchase: $3000 (including tax, title, tags)
Insurance: $600 (about $90-100/year)
Helmet: $100
Gas: $200 (about $40/year)
Tires: $300
Other Maintenance: $200

So $4400 for 6 years or $60/month. But it does sit pretty idle half the year and wasn't ridden as much in 2016 as in previous years. I do plan to use it for commuting this spring and summer.

ETA: Also, could likely sell my motorcycle right now for $2000, cutting my overall costs nearly in half. I do realize that my "cost per mile" isn't great because I don't ride a ton.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2017, 02:36:02 PM by neo von retorch »

sol

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Re: Motorcycles: Mustachian alternative, or sucka hobby?
« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2017, 02:39:53 PM »
I made money off of my motorcycle.  I paid $3500 for it, I invested about $1100 in upgrades and repairs, and then my insurance company paid me $5900 for it when I biffed it a year later.

As a an added bonus, in addition to the roughly one thousand dollars in profit I made, I also got a lifetime of crippling arthritis out of the deal.  Score!

khangaroo

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Re: Motorcycles: Mustachian alternative, or sucka hobby?
« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2017, 03:42:48 PM »
I couldn't imagine replacing my car with a motorcycle living in the Pacific Northwest although I have seen people do it. Honestly, it's too risky for me riding in the rain and then the Oregonians+Rain+Driving only exacerbates the problem coming from a person who has lived here since I was 5.

I think it's a fabulous hobby and not expensive if you're okay with buying used parts/gear - just make sure that gear has never been in a crash.

I'm a fair-weather rider and don't do any touring. Just an enjoyment thing and I do love my little Ninja 250.

RyanAtTanagra

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Re: Motorcycles: Mustachian alternative, or sucka hobby?
« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2017, 04:24:19 PM »
As others have said, it can save you money or be a very expensive hobby (Harley riders, ahem).  I've definitely saved money by having a motorcycle.  Two critical components are:

1)  Get a cheap bike that gets great gas mileage.  You can get a reliable bike for under $2k that will get 80+ mpg.  Take out the bike instead the car as much as possible and this can pay for itself quickly.

2)  You absolutely must work on the bike yourself, imo, or at least as much as possible.  Motorcycle shops are expensive, even more so than a car mechanic (think at least 2x the cost compared to having the same thing done on your car).  If you can do all the basic stuff yourself (oil changes, tires, brakes, etc), and fix the minor stuff that pops up here and there, you'll be 90% there.

Other things:

- Don't get a bike so nice/new that you feel the need to have full coverage on it.  Liability insurance is almost free on a bike, but full coverage will require a second mortgage.  My current bike (Honda 599 sport bike) is $160/year.  My last one (Honda 250 Nighthawk standard) was I think $95/year.

- Factor in the price of gear into the purchase price of your first bike, which will depend on your safety comfort level.  For some it's a $90 helmet and a spare pair of sandals.  I'd go for more like $500-700 for a decent helmet, jacket, boots, and gloves.

I'll add more as I think of it, but in general I always highly recommend people get a bike when they make comments about mine.  Yes there's a danger factor, but you can do A LOT to mitigate it, starting with looking at statistics of crash causes, and ignoring all the anecdotal evidence people like to throw at you when they find out you ride.

Retire-Canada

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Re: Motorcycles: Mustachian alternative, or sucka hobby?
« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2017, 04:26:09 PM »
Liability insurance is almost free on a bike, but full coverage will require a second mortgage. 

Depends where you live. Liability on my F150 and KLR650 cost the same. I agree on not paying for full coverage. It's crazy expensive.

RyanAtTanagra

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Re: Motorcycles: Mustachian alternative, or sucka hobby?
« Reply #15 on: February 15, 2017, 04:30:36 PM »
Liability insurance is almost free on a bike, but full coverage will require a second mortgage. 

Depends where you live. Liability on my F150 and KLR650 cost the same. I agree on not paying for full coverage. It's crazy expensive.

That's true, my buddy in Toronto pays an arm and a leg.  More than I did for my car's.

Syonyk

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Re: Motorcycles: Mustachian alternative, or sucka hobby?
« Reply #16 on: February 15, 2017, 05:09:25 PM »
I've recently gotten into riding and am discovering that it can be a pretty expensive hobby if you let it get away from you.

Yup!

Quote
He commutes on his bike rain or shine and claims that the savings in fuel and insurance alone are substantial.

Your friend is probably full of it if you ask for the actual numbers.  Tires, oil, and fuel add up in a hurry, and the weekend few hundred mile rides you wouldn't do with a car eat the rest of the savings.

If you have a cheap bike (300cc or less if modern, 500-600cc if older), and only use it for required transportation, yes, it can be cheaper than a car.  Modern stuff, and adding in the weekend rides?  Nah.

That said, I don't care, and it's entirely worth it.  We've got a fleet of motorcycles (my wife rides as well, and we recently bought a motorcycle with a sidecar so my daughter can come with us), I do most of the work myself, and it's something we value enough to keep doing.

However, I'll point out that as I get older, modern motorcycles are less interesting.  Older, slower, clunkier stuff just puts a bigger grin on my face.  The most fun motorcycle I have right now is the Ural - 2005, but substantially similar to a 1940s German BMW in a lot of ways.  It's a gutless wonder, and I can safely describe the handling as "Doesn't go, doesn't stop, and doesn't turn" - at least compared to a modern bike.  But it's hysterically fun to ride, you have to leave time for people to ask you questions about it at almost every stop you make, and it just puts a stupid grin on my face.

When I was younger, I commuted on a sport touring bike (I still have it, still ride it, but live in a less-twisty area now).  Great fun.

But, seriously, you have to do most of the work yourself or maintenance costs eat you alive.

BlueMR2

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Re: Motorcycles: Mustachian alternative, or sucka hobby?
« Reply #17 on: February 16, 2017, 09:57:16 AM »
Pretty cheap hobby for me, and I get some use out of it.  My estimated per mile costs are about half that of my cars.  Parts are cheap.  Much easier to work on myself than the cars.  Insurance is dirt cheap ($150/yr).  I use it for commuting on nice days (I'm not one of those weekend ride around for no reason people).  If I take advantage of most of the nice days that way I calculate that I about break even.

rothwem

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Re: Motorcycles: Mustachian alternative, or sucka hobby?
« Reply #18 on: February 16, 2017, 10:37:57 AM »

Your friend is probably full of it if you ask for the actual numbers.  Tires, oil, and fuel add up in a hurry, and the weekend few hundred mile rides you wouldn't do with a car eat the rest of the savings.


This.  I used to commute 90 miles round trip on a busted up $3500 CBR600RR. The tires would last ~-4-6000 miles before they had a sketchy flat spot in the middle and they were $300 a set.  Oil changes are more frequent because the trans, clutch and engine share oil, and the oil costs twice as much.  And even though the bike was dead reliable (it was a Honda...duh), I didn't ride it for several months of the year because I'd freeze my ass off if I did. Despite that, I kept buying gear trying to keep myself warm, but it just isn't going to happen when you're going 90 mph (I know I know) in 30 degree weather.  Oh, and speaking of that, the tickets. Oh the tickets. Its nearly impossible to do the speed limit when first gear redlines at ~80 mph. 

With that said, I enjoyed the hell out of riding it.  It just doesn't make much sense to try to justify it from a financial perspective.  I sold my bike once I got a trafficky commute and I wasn't having fun on it, and I got back into mountain biking.  Just as much fun, healthier, and less mental energy is required to ensure you don't get run over. 

Syonyk

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Re: Motorcycles: Mustachian alternative, or sucka hobby?
« Reply #19 on: February 16, 2017, 10:42:43 AM »
Despite that, I kept buying gear trying to keep myself warm, but it just isn't going to happen when you're going 90 mph (I know I know) in 30 degree weather.  Oh, and speaking of that, the tickets. Oh the tickets. Its nearly impossible to do the speed limit when first gear redlines at ~80 mph.

I ride down to 0F or so. :p  It's not that hard.  Layer up, and at some point insulated work gloves are warmer than motorcycle winter riding gloves.

Though the bike I ride in the winter wouldn't do 80mph unless you shoved it off a cliff.  It tops out at 65 or 70 but I won't run it there for long - I prefer to do about 45 if there's no traffic.

... and that and the truck were the only vehicles that would get out of our driveway for a while, so if my wife needed to go somewhere at the same time I did, the Ural was my only option.

rothwem

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Re: Motorcycles: Mustachian alternative, or sucka hobby?
« Reply #20 on: February 16, 2017, 10:58:23 AM »
Despite that, I kept buying gear trying to keep myself warm, but it just isn't going to happen when you're going 90 mph (I know I know) in 30 degree weather.  Oh, and speaking of that, the tickets. Oh the tickets. Its nearly impossible to do the speed limit when first gear redlines at ~80 mph.

I ride down to 0F or so. :p  It's not that hard.  Layer up, and at some point insulated work gloves are warmer than motorcycle winter riding gloves.

Though the bike I ride in the winter wouldn't do 80mph unless you shoved it off a cliff.  It tops out at 65 or 70 but I won't run it there for long - I prefer to do about 45 if there's no traffic.

... and that and the truck were the only vehicles that would get out of our driveway for a while, so if my wife needed to go somewhere at the same time I did, the Ural was my only option.

You're more hardcore than me.  I could never find the right combination of warmth and dexterity when it came to gloves, so my hands were always freezing. I had thought about heated gear, but it was really expensive and apparently not that good.  Heated grips are cheap, but I never got the balls to hack up the wiring harness of my bike. 

Syonyk

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Re: Motorcycles: Mustachian alternative, or sucka hobby?
« Reply #21 on: February 16, 2017, 11:07:11 AM »
You're more hardcore than me.  I could never find the right combination of warmth and dexterity when it came to gloves, so my hands were always freezing. I had thought about heated gear, but it was really expensive and apparently not that good.  Heated grips are cheap, but I never got the balls to hack up the wiring harness of my bike.

Layers are huge for core temperature, and keeping the wind off your hands helps a lot, even with gloves.  Handguards are on my list for next winter - I've got them on some of the bikes but not the Ural, which is turning into my "winter bike" because it's perfectly fine on an iced up road.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eb19EdLNIjU <-- Video I took of some winter riding.

I've got heated grips on one of the bikes, and need to put them on some others.  That and hand guards pretty much solve cold winter hands.

RyanAtTanagra

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Re: Motorcycles: Mustachian alternative, or sucka hobby?
« Reply #22 on: February 16, 2017, 11:09:52 AM »
Despite that, I kept buying gear trying to keep myself warm, but it just isn't going to happen when you're going 90 mph (I know I know) in 30 degree weather.  Oh, and speaking of that, the tickets. Oh the tickets. Its nearly impossible to do the speed limit when first gear redlines at ~80 mph.

I ride down to 0F or so. :p  It's not that hard.  Layer up, and at some point insulated work gloves are warmer than motorcycle winter riding gloves.

Though the bike I ride in the winter wouldn't do 80mph unless you shoved it off a cliff.  It tops out at 65 or 70 but I won't run it there for long - I prefer to do about 45 if there's no traffic.

... and that and the truck were the only vehicles that would get out of our driveway for a while, so if my wife needed to go somewhere at the same time I did, the Ural was my only option.

You're more hardcore than me.  I could never find the right combination of warmth and dexterity when it came to gloves, so my hands were always freezing. I had thought about heated gear, but it was really expensive and apparently not that good.  Heated grips are cheap, but I never got the balls to hack up the wiring harness of my bike.

Cold is tricky.  I would ride down to about 30F, and had a 45minute commute, mostly highway.  I was windproof and warm... for about 20 minutes, then the cold would start to seep in, but I would make it to work fine before it got bad.  Hands are definitely the hardest.  I eventually went with battery-powered glove liners, so I could use them when snowboarding too.  Definitely helped.  I also used moose paws at one point, which are covers you put over your handlebars that your hands go into.  Helped a little.  I always wanted to try those + heated grips to create a nice little hand sauna, but never got around to doing the grips.

You don't have to spend a lot for cold weather gear, though.  My main riding jacket had a removable winter liner and also was rainproof, which made it windproof.  Then I also had thermals for winter anyway so I made sure to wear a thermal layer.  Only other things I bought were rain pants (cheap) to make the lower body windproof, and a neck gaiter (also cheap), which is still the first thing I grab if it's chilly, that makes the biggest difference.

Most people that do a lot of cold riding say a heated vest is the best thing to do, since it keeps your core warm which in turn helps the body deal with the extremities.

MrMoogle

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Re: Motorcycles: Mustachian alternative, or sucka hobby?
« Reply #23 on: February 16, 2017, 11:39:52 AM »
I haven't had the chance to go below 20F, but I'm willing to try when I see it.  I only go 7 miles to work, some of it at 80mph, some stopped for 5-10 minutes.  It can be tricky to stay warm enough for the 80mph, and stay cool enough for the stopped. 

I do use hand/brush guards.  Then when it gets really cold, I'll wear normal leather gloves under my winter riding gauntlets, and they stay warm.  The biggest thing for me was keeping my hands warm before getting on the bike.  So I'd put on the leather gloves before going outside, do what I have to on the bike to get ready, then put on the gauntlets.  With these gauntlets, I can't feel anything by touch, so I have a smaller cool riding pair too, and a warm weather pair. 

Then it's a neck gaiter and different amount of layers depending on the temperature.  For me there's a big jump at 40F.  Above it, it seems easy to stay warm, then below it, I have to be meticulous to make sure there's no way for wind to get in, usually where my sleeves meet my gloves. 

RyanAtTanagra

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Re: Motorcycles: Mustachian alternative, or sucka hobby?
« Reply #24 on: February 16, 2017, 11:47:08 AM »
I have to be meticulous to make sure there's no way for wind to get in, usually where my sleeves meet my gloves.

http://www.wristies.com/Original_Wristies_p/10a.htm

I had a pair of these, loved them.  Easy to make, too, which I did when I lost my original pair.  Though my homemade ones were never as nice as theirs, but they worked equally well.  They seal off the gap between glove and jacket perfectly.

MrMoogle

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Re: Motorcycles: Mustachian alternative, or sucka hobby?
« Reply #25 on: February 16, 2017, 12:30:33 PM »
I have to be meticulous to make sure there's no way for wind to get in, usually where my sleeves meet my gloves.

http://www.wristies.com/Original_Wristies_p/10a.htm

I had a pair of these, loved them.  Easy to make, too, which I did when I lost my original pair.  Though my homemade ones were never as nice as theirs, but they worked equally well.  They seal off the gap between glove and jacket perfectly.
Neat.  Since winter is ending, and I knit, I'll try to make a pair for next year. 

HipGnosis

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Re: Motorcycles: Mustachian alternative, or sucka hobby?
« Reply #26 on: February 16, 2017, 12:50:33 PM »
I have to be meticulous to make sure there's no way for wind to get in, usually where my sleeves meet my gloves.

http://www.wristies.com/Original_Wristies_p/10a.htm

I had a pair of these, loved them.  Easy to make, too, which I did when I lost my original pair.  Though my homemade ones were never as nice as theirs, but they worked equally well.  They seal off the gap between glove and jacket perfectly.
Neat.  Since winter is ending, and I knit, I'll try to make a pair for next year.
Many years ago, I used sweatbands for that.   Now I have gloves with gauntlets that go over the jacket sleeves.
Similar concept; I cut the toes off some wool tube socks and use them for leg(ankle-calf) warmers.  Easy to take off at work (after I warm up if needed).

Riding my bikes for most of my transportation for 7-8 months a year saves a lot of miles of wear and depreciation on my car.  And gives me something to drive when the car has to go into the shop for maintenance & repair.

rothwem

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Re: Motorcycles: Mustachian alternative, or sucka hobby?
« Reply #27 on: February 17, 2017, 06:29:03 AM »
Oof, you guys are killing me.  Talking about riding has me missing it again.  I'm biking (like one powered by my legs) distance to work though, and I don't really have a ton of time on the weekends to go for long rides.  It would sit in my driveway like the last one did after I moved close to work until I sold it. 

I could make a case that sportbikes helped me get to mustachianism though.  I'd always lusted over fast cars like M5s, mustangs or whatever but once I bought my 600RR, EVERYTHING felt slow in comparison. I never even bothered with a literbike, since the 600 blew me away so thoroughly.  It totally ruined me, and I no longer lust after fast cars.  Good handling cars? Sure. But raw horsepower? Nah. 

Syonyk

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Re: Motorcycles: Mustachian alternative, or sucka hobby?
« Reply #28 on: February 17, 2017, 08:33:45 AM »
I could make a case that sportbikes helped me get to mustachianism though.  I'd always lusted over fast cars like M5s, mustangs or whatever but once I bought my 600RR, EVERYTHING felt slow in comparison. I never even bothered with a literbike, since the 600 blew me away so thoroughly.  It totally ruined me, and I no longer lust after fast cars.  Good handling cars? Sure. But raw horsepower? Nah.

Oh, seriously.  A slow "gutless wonder" motorcycle will outrun a lot of cars, a moderately quick motorcycle gets you into supercar territory, and a full on sportbike runs even with hypercars.

I was into RX-7s before I got into motorcycles, and then I ended up with Subarus because a "fast car" just wasn't fast anymore.

Freestyler

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Re: Motorcycles: Mustachian alternative, or sucka hobby?
« Reply #29 on: February 18, 2017, 02:13:57 PM »


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eb19EdLNIjU <-- Video I took of some winter riding.



That’s incredible and I never thought it was possible. It makes me reevaluate my assumptions about the locations where owning a motorcycle is “reasonable”. It almost makes me want to open a new thread. I owned motorcycles for some years in a warm (to very hot for some months of the year) climate. Last one was a Kawasaki Z750, that I sold when we moved across the continent (with a newborn) to a colder climate. I’ve been longing since for the day in the distant future that I relocate again to a warmer climate and buy a motorbike. Hell, I’ve been even thinking about relocating just for that reason and against all other rationality! Lately I was telling myself that I might buy a motorbike regardless, but security (I am the main breadwinner with toddlers), financial (I could very well afford it but just makes no sense from a financial standpoint) and other concerns (is it worth it with this climate?) make me stay at the fence. I tell to myself that sticking to just replacing and upgrading my stolen bicycle would be a much wiser move.

To the point of the OP I can see how owning a motorbike for some people in certain locations might be a wise move financially. However and for most situations I personally see it more like either a convenient solution or just a hobby and a matter of passion (for me it was both). As a hobby it’s neither the most expensive nor the most affordable and depends on a lot of things. But boy did it give me pleasure and do I have fond memories about it.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2017, 02:17:14 PM by Freestyler »

Syonyk

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Re: Motorcycles: Mustachian alternative, or sucka hobby?
« Reply #30 on: February 18, 2017, 02:26:25 PM »
Remember, that's a sidecar rig. So really goofy. But, yes, year round transport.

Freestyler

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Re: Motorcycles: Mustachian alternative, or sucka hobby?
« Reply #31 on: February 18, 2017, 02:41:13 PM »
Remember, that's a sidecar rig. So really goofy. But, yes, year round transport.

You are right, I forgot about that. But still.

I was amazed for a moment seeing a SECOND motorbike rider going out of the shop :-D

HipGnosis

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Re: Motorcycles: Mustachian alternative, or sucka hobby?
« Reply #32 on: February 19, 2017, 11:54:19 AM »
Remember, that's a sidecar rig. So really goofy. But, yes, year round transport.
Really goofy?  On what grounds?  To what degree?  On whos authority?!?
There are dozens of 'really goofy' vehicles on the road.  Motorcycles with sidecars don't even make the list.  There is a slew of 3-wheeled vehicles being sold these days.

sol

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Re: Motorcycles: Mustachian alternative, or sucka hobby?
« Reply #33 on: February 19, 2017, 12:22:02 PM »
Motorcycles with sidecars don't even make the list.  There is a slew of 3-wheeled vehicles being sold these days.

You mean like motorcycles with sidecars?

Syonyk

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Re: Motorcycles: Mustachian alternative, or sucka hobby?
« Reply #34 on: February 19, 2017, 01:24:01 PM »
Really goofy?  On what grounds?  To what degree?  On whos authority?!?
There are dozens of 'really goofy' vehicles on the road.  Motorcycles with sidecars don't even make the list.  There is a slew of 3-wheeled vehicles being sold these days.

Mine.  Similarities with a motorcycle include the seating position and the controls.  That's about it.

It turns radically asymmetrically - right turns try to lift the chair (easy enough to do if you come in fast or hit a solid bump), and left turns can be taken a good bit faster, right up until the pusher wheel comes off the ground, at which point you're pretty well screwed.  It doesn't lean when turning like a motorcycle does, but turns flat.  You don't countersteer at all.

As you accelerate, it pulls towards the sidecar, as you decelerate it pushes away from the sidecar (due to inertia).

The sidecar wheel isn't in line with the pusher wheel, so the brake dive and such is a bit weird feeling.

And, as far as them being "goofy" in terms of three wheeled vehicles, mine is the only one that almost anyone I talk to has seen - and I've talked to a lot of people, because it attracts a ton of attention in parking lots.  They're not at all common in most places.

So, yes, I'm happy to call it a bit goofy.

I love it, it's a great year round vehicle, my daughter loves riding in the sidecar, and I can carry a rather absurd amount of stuff for what most people consider a "motorcycle."  But it's quite weird.

shunkman

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Re: Motorcycles: Mustachian alternative, or sucka hobby?
« Reply #35 on: February 22, 2017, 08:05:36 PM »
Motorcycling saves me money because when I'm riding I feel less need to spend money on my other expensive past hobby, flying airplanes. I ride because I love doing it. Otherwise for me the cost of motorcycling is hard to justify compared to an economical automobile.

Syonyk

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Re: Motorcycles: Mustachian alternative, or sucka hobby?
« Reply #36 on: February 22, 2017, 10:20:34 PM »
I don't feel like it's a proper flight without riding to the airport. :)

Flying clubs are pretty cheap though.

shunkman

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Re: Motorcycles: Mustachian alternative, or sucka hobby?
« Reply #37 on: February 24, 2017, 04:52:20 PM »
I don't feel like it's a proper flight without riding to the airport. :)

Flying clubs are pretty cheap though.

Yes...riding to flying is as good as it gets. Feels almost sinful.

Syonyk

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Re: Motorcycles: Mustachian alternative, or sucka hobby?
« Reply #38 on: February 24, 2017, 06:32:28 PM »
I cheated today. Took my truck for my BFR.

GetItRight

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Re: Motorcycles: Mustachian alternative, or sucka hobby?
« Reply #39 on: February 25, 2017, 04:02:26 PM »
It can be done very cheaply. I pay about $120/yr for $300k uninsured/underinsured + $10k med payments and misc other stuff on there. Beyond that your medical insurance will pay, and eventually someone else will pay for it all to reimburse them and any expenses you incurred unless the government screws you over by not allowing you to sue to recoup your losses. You can get a decent bike for around $1000. Figure a few hundred for gear if you buy used. It will burn far less fuel than a car. If you want it to be cheap and live in a climate that you can ride year round (or are hardcore enough) then you can save a lot of money. Heck, car insurance here is 10x what bike insurance is, for bare minimum legally required.

On the other hand you can easily spend far more than you save if you also have a car and want all sorts of fancy expensive stuff. Motorcycles are a hobby for me, it's an additional cost as I restored my bike after riding it for some time. My bike averages 45 MPG as compared to my truck at 14 MPG, I replace a lot of truck miles with bike miles in the warmer months. Every mile I ride instead of drive is $.13 in my pocket. I was hit by a selfish and oblivious car driver some time ago, received agreed value insurance payout for the bike and repaired the damage. Because of this my fairly expensive restoration (for a cheapskate like me) was paid for and then some. According to Mint for the time I've owned this bike it has cost me less than zero per month. I'd rather have not been hit but at least my bike was free, minus the labor to restore it (twice).

Just Joe

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Re: Motorcycles: Mustachian alternative, or sucka hobby?
« Reply #40 on: February 26, 2017, 07:45:22 AM »
In case any newbies come along - sport bike tires wear out much faster than touring tires. Not as much grip as sport bike tires but that never got me into trouble b/c my riding style was reasonable. I rode 900cc and 1000cc sport tourers. Would definitely go back to to that sort of bike again.

I used to ride year round rain or shine or 20 degrees. Never in the snow with only two tires under me. Could bundle up easily for a 25 min ride below freezing without special gear but I might be warmer blooded than some. Many times made long trips in sub-freezing weather. Need good gear as the cold soaks in.

An alternative - if you aren't mixing with fast traffic - is a scooter. We have one of those now. An old collector scooter holds its value but is pretty slow. Mine tops out at 45 mph which is perfect around here. Insurance is about $11 a month. Tires and parts are cheap. Old scooters are easy to repair and well-documented on the web. Mine has points and condenser ignition so its a bit more maintenance intensive than a modern cousin. The Harley guys might give you some weird looks about a  scooter but I don't give a flip.

A modern scooter is much faster but can be had for ~$1200 out the door new (Kymco). It will be worth zero in a few short years. Better acceleration and brakes I'm sure though.

I gave up motorcycles when our kids were little. Back then it took both DW's and my income to float our tiny budget. She drove the car and I rode the well used motorcycle.

These days the kids are old enough that the risk for me to ride is manageable. I find as I get older that I'm not motivated to go that far from home thus the scooter. A Ural is very high on my list but until I have more indoor parking I'm not ready to pull that trigger.

neo von retorch

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Re: Motorcycles: Mustachian alternative, or sucka hobby?
« Reply #41 on: February 26, 2017, 08:06:23 AM »
In case any newbies come along - sport bike tires wear out much faster than touring tires. Not as much grip as sport bike tires but that never got me into trouble b/c my riding style was reasonable. I rode 900cc and 1000cc sport tourers. Would definitely go back to to that sort of bike again.

Yeah - last time I got tires, I wanted Conti RoadAttack, but the shop had RaceAttack in stock and offered me the great deal of those for the same price... but uh... I don't ride in a way that really warrants them, and the flat spot developed faster than I would've liked. Got a set of RoadAttacks now, though I need to get them put on. (You guys said you do your own tires? How hard is that? Do I need any special tools? I also don't currently have a bike jack though my FIL might...)

RyanAtTanagra

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Re: Motorcycles: Mustachian alternative, or sucka hobby?
« Reply #42 on: February 27, 2017, 11:00:56 AM »
You guys said you do your own tires? How hard is that? Do I need any special tools? I also don't currently have a bike jack though my FIL might...

Yea, it's not hard, but it can be very frustrating if you've never pried a tire off a rim with tire irons.  I would recommend just getting the wheel off the bike and taking the wheel+new tire to the shop and have them do it for $20 or so.  But if you want to try it yourself, get a bead breaker.  Lot's of types, I have one like this, just make sure it is big enough for your tire sizes:

http://www.trendtimes.com/adaracing---.html?utm_source=googlepepla&utm_medium=adwords&id=75079927569&gclid=CjwKEAiAuc_FBRD7_JCM3NSY92wSJABbVoxB5pbKsnjoEsAkezMNH6o49WFKbVdMKSgG0KSLBjf1DBoCk2vw_wcB

And also tire irons:

http://www.jpcycles.com/product/246-266

Need 3, the longer the better.  Also need an air compressor, you can't get the bead to seal with a hand/foot pump, you need to force a lot of air in quickly.

If you don't have a centerstand or separate bike stand (highly recommended), I have gotten wheels off by putting the bike on the side stand then using my car's scissor jack on the frame to lift a wheel off the ground.  It's not very stable, but works in a pinch.  I've also heard of people using pulleys to lift and support the bike by their garage rafters.

Syonyk

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Re: Motorcycles: Mustachian alternative, or sucka hobby?
« Reply #43 on: February 27, 2017, 11:14:48 AM »
I generally take my own wheels off to get things mounted/balanced.  If you have a center stand, it's easy.  If you don't, you really should invest in a set of track stands for doing maintenance.  They're a one time purchase, but make working on your own bike so much easier.

I'll normally order tires online, take my wheels off, and take them to Cycle Gear for a mount and balance - it's something like $30/wheel last I did it, but the end result is still radically cheaper than having a shop order and install tires.  Plus, I don't have to worry about someone trying to loosen my axle the wrong way and crushing my bearings (left handed threads on one end).

Pilot Road 3 or 4s are excellent year round tires if you're not knee dragging on the street, which you shouldn't be doing anyway.

Gin1984

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Re: Motorcycles: Mustachian alternative, or sucka hobby?
« Reply #44 on: February 27, 2017, 11:47:35 AM »
However due to increased risk of injury, increased insurance alone it likely isn't a very mustachian alternative. This from someone that has had one and loved riding it.
You mean medical insurance?  I'm still employed, so I don't worry about this yet.  Is there a box to check normally if you apply for insurance for motorcycle riding?

I'm a daily rider, I can pretty much ride year around.  I also have a classic car that I'll ride if they're threatening tornados, but otherwise, I prefer not to drive it. 

2 years ago, I spent ~$4500 on a Suzuki V-Strom 650 with 6k miles, some accessories, a used helmet and jacket.  I've since spent another ~$1200 on gear and a change of tires.  I'm tall, and couldn't find anything on craigslist that would fit, so I bought everything on sale new.  At my rate, it should last 10 years or so, without much more put into it other than gas and oil.

I really like to ride, and while this might be slightly more expensive and less practical than other options, it was an easy decision. 

I might not be super frugal with it, it certainly doesn't have to be anti-mustachian.

Sorry, insurance for your motorcycle. Even more so if you just learned to ride a motorcycle this is either going to be costly.

And I agree it doesn't have to be anti-mustachian as long as your do it right. However I don't think it really can be considered Mustachian either though.
Motorcycle insurance isn't costly at all. As a new rider with no safety training (yet) my policy was $75/year. By comparison, my auto insurance is about $200/month (a lot of speeding tickets in the last few years). If I didn't live somewhere where it dropped below 40*F for 4 months out of the year, I wouldn't even drive, so I can totally see how saving money on vehicle insurance is feasible.
The cheapest quotes I got after I completed training and got my license was about $400-$500 a year and that was bundled with my car.
Where do you live?!  Was this with a ton of accidents or an expensive motorcycle?  I've only heard it being that extensive after multiple speeding tickets or accidents.

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rothwem

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Re: Motorcycles: Mustachian alternative, or sucka hobby?
« Reply #45 on: February 27, 2017, 12:15:27 PM »
The cheapest quotes I got after I completed training and got my license was about $400-$500 a year and that was bundled with my car.
Where do you live?!  Was this with a ton of accidents or an expensive motorcycle?  I've only heard it being that extensive after multiple speeding tickets or accidents.

There are some places that are really pricey for motorcycle insurance, namely the "no helmet law" states.  Also some insurance companies will really jack the prices up for sportbikes, but there's not really a good criteria for what constitutes a "sportbike".  I've heard of people getting sky high quotes for a Ninja 250, which are 33 hp 250cc motorcycles--simply because its got the word "ninja" in the name. 

Gin1984

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Re: Motorcycles: Mustachian alternative, or sucka hobby?
« Reply #46 on: February 27, 2017, 12:20:32 PM »
The cheapest quotes I got after I completed training and got my license was about $400-$500 a year and that was bundled with my car.
Where do you live?!  Was this with a ton of accidents or an expensive motorcycle?  I've only heard it being that extensive after multiple speeding tickets or accidents.

There are some places that are really pricey for motorcycle insurance, namely the "no helmet law" states.  Also some insurance companies will really jack the prices up for sportbikes, but there's not really a good criteria for what constitutes a "sportbike".  I've heard of people getting sky high quotes for a Ninja 250, which are 33 hp 250cc motorcycles--simply because its got the word "ninja" in the name.
That is sad, the ninja is the only bike I can fit on (short little legs, lol).  Note to self, avoid no helmet law states.  Now you have given me more to look up, damn you.  :D

RyanAtTanagra

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Re: Motorcycles: Mustachian alternative, or sucka hobby?
« Reply #47 on: February 27, 2017, 12:51:56 PM »
The cheapest quotes I got after I completed training and got my license was about $400-$500 a year and that was bundled with my car.
Where do you live?!  Was this with a ton of accidents or an expensive motorcycle?  I've only heard it being that extensive after multiple speeding tickets or accidents.

There are some places that are really pricey for motorcycle insurance, namely the "no helmet law" states.  Also some insurance companies will really jack the prices up for sportbikes, but there's not really a good criteria for what constitutes a "sportbike".  I've heard of people getting sky high quotes for a Ninja 250, which are 33 hp 250cc motorcycles--simply because its got the word "ninja" in the name.
That is sad, the ninja is the only bike I can fit on (short little legs, lol).  Note to self, avoid no helmet law states.  Now you have given me more to look up, damn you.  :D

Honda Rebel for short legs.  Suzuki also has a similar bike, gs250 i think.

Also, Ohio is no helmet law and my insurance was $90/year there.  I rode a 250 Nighthawk.  But even when I added a Suzuki 550 sport bike it wasn't much more.  Helmet doesn't matter if it's liability-only.  Just make sure your existing health insurance will cover you in case of a motorcycle accident.  I've hard some won't, but not sure if that's true.

Gin1984

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Re: Motorcycles: Mustachian alternative, or sucka hobby?
« Reply #48 on: February 27, 2017, 12:55:10 PM »
The cheapest quotes I got after I completed training and got my license was about $400-$500 a year and that was bundled with my car.
Where do you live?!  Was this with a ton of accidents or an expensive motorcycle?  I've only heard it being that extensive after multiple speeding tickets or accidents.

There are some places that are really pricey for motorcycle insurance, namely the "no helmet law" states.  Also some insurance companies will really jack the prices up for sportbikes, but there's not really a good criteria for what constitutes a "sportbike".  I've heard of people getting sky high quotes for a Ninja 250, which are 33 hp 250cc motorcycles--simply because its got the word "ninja" in the name.
That is sad, the ninja is the only bike I can fit on (short little legs, lol).  Note to self, avoid no helmet law states.  Now you have given me more to look up, damn you.  :D

Honda Rebel for short legs.  Suzuki also has a similar bike, gs250 i think.

Also, Ohio is no helmet law and my insurance was $90/year there.  I rode a 250 Nighthawk.  But even when I added a Suzuki 550 sport bike it wasn't much more.  Helmet doesn't matter if it's liability-only.  Just make sure your existing health insurance will cover you in case of a motorcycle accident.  I've hard some won't, but not sure if that's true.
LOL, I switched the rebel and the ninja in my mind.  I'll check out the suzuki though.

HipGnosis

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Re: Motorcycles: Mustachian alternative, or sucka hobby?
« Reply #49 on: February 27, 2017, 04:47:45 PM »
Motorcycles with sidecars don't even make the list.  There is a slew of 3-wheeled vehicles being sold these days.

You mean like motorcycles with sidecars?
I mean like (but not limited to);
CanAm Spyder
Polaris Slingshot
Piaggio MP3  - a scooter w/ 2 front wheels; it leans (a bit)
Harley trike 
Solo - electric
Elio  - not sure if it's actually for sale yet