Author Topic: Trying To Get To That Special Networth Figure vs Retiring Now  (Read 3855 times)

TheUniverseGuru.Com

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Trying To Get To That Special Networth Figure vs Retiring Now
« on: October 21, 2016, 07:15:45 AM »
Hi Everyone,

New to the forum, definitely not new to the MMM way. Hoping you guys can give us some thoughts and perspective.  We are a family of 5.  I am almost 36, hubby just turned 45, and kids are 12, 6, and 2.  We save 80% of our income and live a lovely, comfortable lifestyle.  We eat good food, have fun dinning out a few times a month, and even take 2-3 vacations a year (being smart with travel hacking).

My husband is really getting burned out by his job but wants to keep working for 4 more years to reach a certain net worth.  I truly admire his sacrifice and sentiment and understand that he wants added security for the children (we want to be able to pay for college, cars, weddings, but probably won't need to since our kids know the MMM way well). I am already retired and run a small business from home (YouTube Channel and Life Coaching Business) which I really enjoy and brings in a little bit of income as well.

I truly believe that if my husband quit now, we would be ok.  Especially considering the rental and business income we receive with potential for growth.  He has agreed to reevaluate the situation in August of next year but I feel like he is sacrificing his time and even health just to get to a special net worth number.  I understand his need for the added safety net, but is it worth the time/health sacrifice?

Thoughts?  What would you do in this situation?

boarder42

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Re: Trying To Get To That Special Networth Figure vs Retiring Now
« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2016, 07:28:44 AM »
numbers are needed. 

we arent magicians or mind readers.


Please don't be rude.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2016, 02:30:23 AM by ForumModerator »

mskyle

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Re: Trying To Get To That Special Networth Figure vs Retiring Now
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2016, 07:50:40 AM »
numbers are needed. 

we arent magicians or mind readers.

I disagree - this doesn't sound like a numbers problem, more like a personal-levels-of-risk-tolerance problem (although I guess it's possible OP is being completely unrealistic). Do you and your husband agree about the facts on the ground and the probabilities of success/failure? If so, then it comes down to each of your personal, subjective experience. Maybe your husband feels like it would be really satisfying to reach that milestone amount, and wants the accomplishment for its own sake. Maybe he has a lower risk tolerance and feels more responsibility for absolutely, beyond any doubt providing for his family forever. (My fiance and I are kind of the same way - he wants to work forever, and I want to retire ASAP. I think to some extent it's a Guy Thing.)

I think the best thing you can do is lay out your concerns about the way his work affects your family (be specific) and if you're still not in agreement say, "OK, can we talk about this again in six months?"

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Re: Trying To Get To That Special Networth Figure vs Retiring Now
« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2016, 08:11:28 AM »

I disagree - this doesn't sound like a numbers problem, more like a personal-levels-of-risk-tolerance problem (although I guess it's possible OP is being completely unrealistic). Do you and your husband agree about the facts on the ground and the probabilities of success/failure? If so, then it comes down to each of your personal, subjective experience. Maybe your husband feels like it would be really satisfying to reach that milestone amount, and wants the accomplishment for its own sake. Maybe he has a lower risk tolerance and feels more responsibility for absolutely, beyond any doubt providing for his family forever. (My fiance and I are kind of the same way - he wants to work forever, and I want to retire ASAP. I think to some extent it's a Guy Thing.)

I think the best thing you can do is lay out your concerns about the way his work affects your family (be specific) and if you're still not in agreement say, "OK, can we talk about this again in six months?"

Definitely a guy thing and you are right - he says he wants to never worry about money - and I completely respect and actually admire that.  His work is not really affecting the family - he leaves around 7:45a and is home by 4pm every single evening.  I just worry for his health because his work is stressful. 

I also agree with you that it's not a numbers thing ( we are worth over $1.3 and have zero debt - and live on 20% of a six figure salary).  We are happy with our life and don't really think we would inflate our lifestyle all that much in retirement - so as far as I see it - we are already FI.  I think it comes down to a more emotional thing like you mentioned.  We actually see eye to eye on all areas of life/finances/values.  I just don't want him to sacrifice 4 more years of his life for money we may not even need.   

boarder42

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Re: Trying To Get To That Special Networth Figure vs Retiring Now
« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2016, 08:15:59 AM »
to that extent its an OLD Gen X Boomer thing if we want to classify it.  Gen Xers and Boomers are much more likely to identify themselves with thier careers. 

its simple math.

you said 6 figure salary at 20% ... yippee you make 100k you're living on 20k hey you're FIREd x2.5 + pensions ... you make 999,000 you live on 20% you need 200k ...

do the math use a 3.75 SWR - what the current shiller PE is projecting.

if it works out youre FI if your husband wants to keep working thats an emotional choice ...

"as far as i see it we are already FI"  - its math - you are or you arent plain and simple.

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Re: Trying To Get To That Special Networth Figure vs Retiring Now
« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2016, 08:38:28 AM »
to that extent its an OLD Gen X Boomer thing if we want to classify it.  Gen Xers and Boomers are much more likely to identify themselves with thier careers. 

its simple math.

you said 6 figure salary at 20% ... yippee you make 100k you're living on 20k hey you're FIREd x2.5 + pensions ... you make 999,000 you live on 20% you need 200k ...

do the math use a 3.75 SWR - what the current shiller PE is projecting.

if it works out youre FI if your husband wants to keep working thats an emotional choice ...

"as far as i see it we are already FI"  - its math - you are or you arent plain and simple.

From a simple math perspective - we are FI based on our current lifestyle.  In the projections he has done (he is a finance and excel nerd) he has inflated our lifestyle based on lot of unknowns or what ifs since we have 3 kids.  Things that may or may not happn - things we may or may not need to pay for.  So it's not always a simple math game when there are lots of emotions involved with kids I guess. 

boarder42

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Re: Trying To Get To That Special Networth Figure vs Retiring Now
« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2016, 08:59:13 AM »
to that extent its an OLD Gen X Boomer thing if we want to classify it.  Gen Xers and Boomers are much more likely to identify themselves with thier careers. 

its simple math.

you said 6 figure salary at 20% ... yippee you make 100k you're living on 20k hey you're FIREd x2.5 + pensions ... you make 999,000 you live on 20% you need 200k ...

do the math use a 3.75 SWR - what the current shiller PE is projecting.

if it works out youre FI if your husband wants to keep working thats an emotional choice ...

"as far as i see it we are already FI"  - its math - you are or you arent plain and simple.

From a simple math perspective - we are FI based on our current lifestyle.  In the projections he has done (he is a finance and excel nerd) he has inflated our lifestyle based on lot of unknowns or what ifs since we have 3 kids.  Things that may or may not happn - things we may or may not need to pay for.  So it's not always a simple math game when there are lots of emotions involved with kids I guess.

thats still math.  you can assign probability to each event and come up with a reasonable cost for all events ... you say may or may not happen.  you should be able to figure out what that is and include it in the budget.  if he's an excel finance nerd he should have tons of fun figuring out the probability and then lowering that number.

MasterStache

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Re: Trying To Get To That Special Networth Figure vs Retiring Now
« Reply #7 on: October 21, 2016, 10:53:30 AM »
Assuming everything you state is correct I myself couldn't imagine working another day at a job that drains my life energy. I understand the desire to feel safe and secure while trying to pay for your children's way but there are trade-offs. Stress, daily commute, etc. can and will take years off your life. What is that extra income worth?

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Re: Trying To Get To That Special Networth Figure vs Retiring Now
« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2016, 12:05:24 PM »
Assuming everything you state is correct I myself couldn't imagine working another day at a job that drains my life energy. I understand the desire to feel safe and secure while trying to pay for your children's way but there are trade-offs. Stress, daily commute, etc. can and will take years off your life. What is that extra income worth?

Exactly.  That's the part I need to be able to convince him. 

mskyle

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Re: Trying To Get To That Special Networth Figure vs Retiring Now
« Reply #9 on: October 21, 2016, 12:52:43 PM »
Assuming everything you state is correct I myself couldn't imagine working another day at a job that drains my life energy. I understand the desire to feel safe and secure while trying to pay for your children's way but there are trade-offs. Stress, daily commute, etc. can and will take years off your life. What is that extra income worth?

Exactly.  That's the part I need to be able to convince him.

Do you, though? You're different people. You have different ways of looking at the world. Can't you disagree with him without having to change his mind? Unless you can point to ways in which his choosing to work affects *you* (and this could be "to me it looks like working at this place is shaving years off your life and I don't want to be widowed any earlier than necessary") I feel like you kind of have to let him do his thing. Neither of you are objectively right or wrong here.

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Re: Trying To Get To That Special Networth Figure vs Retiring Now
« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2016, 09:18:13 PM »
Can he go to part time?

Could you start or scale up a side business?

Could you trim your budget if necessary?

You say that your husband is padding the projected budget for unknowns. How much are these unknowns? If he's doubling or tripling expenses, that's excessive to me. But it also makes sense to plan for unexpected events. You do not plan for a freak rainstorm to flood the parking lot of the grocery store and total 50+ cars, but it happened to my roommate 2 months ago. However, if you don't have those unexpected events, then you don't spend that money and it continues earning returns.

Honestly, it sounds like even if he's getting burned out, he may not know who he is WITHOUT work. It's not uncommon. I'd suggest that he take some time off work, as much as can be reasonably managed without losing his job, and see what happens.

Metric Mouse

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Re: Trying To Get To That Special Networth Figure vs Retiring Now
« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2016, 10:07:03 PM »
Assuming everything you state is correct I myself couldn't imagine working another day at a job that drains my life energy. I understand the desire to feel safe and secure while trying to pay for your children's way but there are trade-offs. Stress, daily commute, etc. can and will take years off your life. What is that extra income worth?

Exactly.  That's the part I need to be able to convince him.

Do you, though? You're different people. You have different ways of looking at the world. Can't you disagree with him without having to change his mind? Unless you can point to ways in which his choosing to work affects *you* (and this could be "to me it looks like working at this place is shaving years off your life and I don't want to be widowed any earlier than necessary") I feel like you kind of have to let him do his thing. Neither of you are objectively right or wrong here.

Well put. Nothing wrong with working longer if that is what makes one feel secure; it could be equally stressful for someone to pull the plug sooner than they are ready and spend the next 30 years worrying about money (Even if the math works out fine)

misterhorsey

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Re: Trying To Get To That Special Networth Figure vs Retiring Now
« Reply #12 on: October 23, 2016, 03:01:25 AM »
Assuming everything you state is correct I myself couldn't imagine working another day at a job that drains my life energy. I understand the desire to feel safe and secure while trying to pay for your children's way but there are trade-offs. Stress, daily commute, etc. can and will take years off your life. What is that extra income worth?

Exactly.  That's the part I need to be able to convince him.

Do you, though? You're different people. You have different ways of looking at the world. Can't you disagree with him without having to change his mind? Unless you can point to ways in which his choosing to work affects *you* (and this could be "to me it looks like working at this place is shaving years off your life and I don't want to be widowed any earlier than necessary") I feel like you kind of have to let him do his thing. Neither of you are objectively right or wrong here.

I personally have tendencies that sound like the OP's husband.  I have plenty of FU monies, hate my job, but can't stand the thought of not working as it's neglecting opportunities to earn more cash so that I don't have to work later.  But I would actually like to be convinced to change my attitude.

I'm working at it myself, slowly - it's a big shift in consciousness.

I think sometimes people like me have trouble the individual Trees because we are so focused on the Forest. The long term and the big picture are such a key priorities that we'll martyr ourselves into over work and depression, rather than sit back and think about prioritising the present, and focusing on doing things we want to do.

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Re: Trying To Get To That Special Networth Figure vs Retiring Now
« Reply #13 on: October 23, 2016, 09:30:22 AM »
Assuming everything you state is correct I myself couldn't imagine working another day at a job that drains my life energy. I understand the desire to feel safe and secure while trying to pay for your children's way but there are trade-offs. Stress, daily commute, etc. can and will take years off your life. What is that extra income worth?

Exactly.  That's the part I need to be able to convince him.

Do you, though? You're different people. You have different ways of looking at the world. Can't you disagree with him without having to change his mind? Unless you can point to ways in which his choosing to work affects *you* (and this could be "to me it looks like working at this place is shaving years off your life and I don't want to be widowed any earlier than necessary") I feel like you kind of have to let him do his thing. Neither of you are objectively right or wrong here.

I personally have tendencies that sound like the OP's husband.  I have plenty of FU monies, hate my job, but can't stand the thought of not working as it's neglecting opportunities to earn more cash so that I don't have to work later.  But I would actually like to be convinced to change my attitude.

I'm working at it myself, slowly - it's a big shift in consciousness.

I think sometimes people like me have trouble the individual Trees because we are so focused on the Forest. The long term and the big picture are such a key priorities that we'll martyr ourselves into over work and depression, rather than sit back and think about prioritizing the present, and focusing on doing things we want to do.

Well put and thanks for sharing the other side.  We spent most of yesterday going through the numbers once again.  I was able to convince him to shave off some of the "what ifs" costs he had added to our future projected expenses.  Also explained how we didn't factor in the growth of my business income.  We had the opportunity to interview Rootofgood founder, Justin over the weekend for our blog.  I think hearing him talk about how some of his expenses actually went down after retirement (he also has 3 kids like us) and that he can always go back to work if he really wanted to, helped us manage some our fears. 

We were looking at him quitting in August of 2020 - after reworking the numbers (more realistically this time around) the new projected date looks to be December of 2018.  We decided that if we get there and he still doesn't feel "secure" he can work from home for another year and see if that helps. 

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Re: Trying To Get To That Special Networth Figure vs Retiring Now
« Reply #14 on: October 23, 2016, 12:56:14 PM »
Everyone has their own version of "enough." Sounds like the number your husband has in his head for "enough" is a bit higher than yours is. This is the crux of the problem, and you should have a discussion about what your goals are and how much money those will actually require. Try to come to a shared definition of "enough" and figure out how long it will take to actually get there.

Next step is to really be on board with that definition of "enough." What I mean by that is that once you have "enough," and believe in your heart that you have it, there is no reason whatsoever to work at a job you don't like, not even for one day.

Metric Mouse

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Re: Trying To Get To That Special Networth Figure vs Retiring Now
« Reply #15 on: October 23, 2016, 06:34:23 PM »
Well put and thanks for sharing the other side.  We spent most of yesterday going through the numbers once again.  I was able to convince him to shave off some of the "what ifs" costs he had added to our future projected expenses.  Also explained how we didn't factor in the growth of my business income.  We had the opportunity to interview Rootofgood founder, Justin over the weekend for our blog.  I think hearing him talk about how some of his expenses actually went down after retirement (he also has 3 kids like us) and that he can always go back to work if he really wanted to, helped us manage some our fears. 

We were looking at him quitting in August of 2020 - after reworking the numbers (more realistically this time around) the new projected date looks to be December of 2018.  We decided that if we get there and he still doesn't feel "secure" he can work from home for another year and see if that helps.

Great news!  I love the frank discussion, positive change and the willingness to compromise.  Sounds like things are moving in the right direction!  Meeting and talking with people that hav success stories is great as well!