Author Topic: First MacBook Purchase  (Read 2498 times)

GoCubsGo

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First MacBook Purchase
« on: April 12, 2021, 02:05:51 PM »
So I have a daughter going off to college this summer.  She has never owned a laptop (all high school curriculum was somehow done using a school issued iPad).  She will obviously need a laptop when she goes off to school.  I've always just bought fairly basic outdated but new Windows based laptops every 4-5 years or so.  Combined I don't think they cost what a Macbook costs. 

That said, I'm not looking for advice on any Windows laptops.  We are buying a Macbook (some things aren't worth fighting over).  What would you buy a new college student as a one time laptop purchase.  Hoping to spend less than $1,500 but have no clue what specs I should be looking for and don't want to cheap out if there is a relatively small ($200ish) price difference between specs/models.

Really flying blind here and despite this forums mustachian ways, I know there are some techy Apple fans hanging around here.

Syonyk

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Re: First MacBook Purchase
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2021, 02:14:52 PM »
I would wait until the next generation of the ARM chips are announced (M1X, M2, something along those lines), and then buy a midrange one of those.

However, given global chip shortages, when that will be is up in the air, so either of the current M1 (Apple Silicon/ARM) laptops should work fine for a college student.  They're a bit limited in things like external monitor connectivity at this point (I think they only support a single external display), but there's no reason to buy an Intel one at this point - they're hot and slow compared to the M1 chip.

Max out the RAM to 16GB, and while one can live with 256GB internal storage, for a more computer-demanding major (engineering, graphic design, etc - basically anything more than text) 512GB is an awful lot nicer.  External storage works, but it's fairly annoying to use on a regular basis, especially when having to connect it constantly.

Then get a good skin for it (I'm a fan of the clear vinyl wraps) and a good backpack with a padded carrier area for laptops.

GoCubsGo

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Re: First MacBook Purchase
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2021, 03:43:50 PM »
Thanks! That's the type of info I need.  Originally, I was targeting this one from Costco:

MacBook Pro 13.3" – Apple M1 Chip 8-core CPU, 8-core GPU – 8GB Memory – 512GB SSD – Silver- $1,450

I'd love to buy from Costco since they have a solid return policy, but it looks like it only has 8GB of memory

Would a 13" screen be big enough?? 

Also, how long a lifespan should I expect?  I'm hoping this lasts 5 years like my iPhones seem to do..

Kris

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Re: First MacBook Purchase
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2021, 03:49:15 PM »
Thanks! That's the type of info I need.  Originally, I was targeting this one from Costco:

MacBook Pro 13.3" – Apple M1 Chip 8-core CPU, 8-core GPU – 8GB Memory – 512GB SSD – Silver- $1,450

I'd love to buy from Costco since they have a solid return policy, but it looks like it only has 8GB of memory

Would a 13" screen be big enough?? 

Also, how long a lifespan should I expect?  I'm hoping this lasts 5 years like my iPhones seem to do..

It should definitely last at least five years. I bought my Macbook Pro 5 1/2 years ago, and it is still going strong. I have no plans to replace it anytime soon, and if I had to guess, I’d say I should get at least 8 years out of it.

Syonyk

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Re: First MacBook Purchase
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2021, 03:56:23 PM »
I'd love to buy from Costco since they have a solid return policy, but it looks like it only has 8GB of memory

Would a 13" screen be big enough?? 

You haven't told us what they're going to be doing with it.

The requirements for an English major will be very different from the requirements for a Cpr E major or structural engineering major, which will be somewhat different than what would work well for someone majoring in 3D modeling.

JLee

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Re: First MacBook Purchase
« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2021, 04:00:40 PM »
Thanks! That's the type of info I need.  Originally, I was targeting this one from Costco:

MacBook Pro 13.3" – Apple M1 Chip 8-core CPU, 8-core GPU – 8GB Memory – 512GB SSD – Silver- $1,450

I'd love to buy from Costco since they have a solid return policy, but it looks like it only has 8GB of memory

Would a 13" screen be big enough?? 

Also, how long a lifespan should I expect?  I'm hoping this lasts 5 years like my iPhones seem to do..

The M1 Macs are a different breed from the rest -- I have not been hampered by the 8GB that my Air has (and I replaced a Dell XPS15 with an i7 7700HQ and 64GB RAM).

They are popping up on sale relatively frequently - keep an eye on slickdeals, or if you have a local Microcenter they have the 8/512 Air for $1180: https://www.microcenter.com/product/631516/apple-macbook-air-mgn73ll-a-m1-late-2020-133-laptop-computer---space-gray

The Pro and Air are very similar -- main differences being the Pro is the same thickness across (vs a taper for the Air), the Pro has a cooling fan so if you're doing heavy / sustained workloads it won't throttle / slow down like an Air will, and the Pro has a bit better battery life. The base ($999) Air also has a 7 core GPU and the base Pro (iirc $1250-1300) has an 8 core GPU. All non-base Airs also get the 8 core GPU, and the CPU is identical between Air/Pro.

That said, unless you're video editing or something similar, you're not likely to have any thermal throttling with an Air and the battery life of either of them is utterly astonishing.

Blackeagle

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Re: First MacBook Purchase
« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2021, 04:21:18 PM »
Also, how long a lifespan should I expect?  I'm hoping this lasts 5 years like my iPhones seem to do..

I’m planning on replacing my 2012 Retina MacBook Pro later this year.  It was supported by the latest version of macOS up until last year and it’s still perfectly usable day to day.  The one caveat might be that in it’s heyday it was a higher-end machine than what you’re looking at, but I still think 8-years or so of general use out of a new M1 powered Mac is a reasonable expectation.

I’ll second Syonyk’s recommendation of 16gb of RAM and as much SSD storage as you can afford.

markum

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Re: First MacBook Purchase
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2021, 04:28:22 PM »
You may also want to check the college's book store. They may have recommended setups.   Plus they will have educational pricing.   

Syonyk

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Re: First MacBook Purchase
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2021, 04:29:34 PM »
I’ll second Syonyk’s recommendation of 16gb of RAM and as much SSD storage as you can afford.

I did not say "As much SSD storage as you can afford."  I said 512GB.

I've had a number of Macs with 256GB SSD or so, and I've found it tends to get a bit tight.  Not absurdly so, but I have to think about disk space.  With 512GB, there's enough room for just about everything, including moderate sized video project work on the SSD.  Going to 1TB or 2TB is an awful lot of money that I think is wasted unless there is some very specific use case.

Blackeagle

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Re: First MacBook Purchase
« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2021, 04:33:10 PM »
I've had a number of Macs with 256GB SSD or so, and I've found it tends to get a bit tight.  Not absurdly so, but I have to think about disk space.  With 512GB, there's enough room for just about everything, including moderate sized video project work on the SSD.  Going to 1TB or 2TB is an awful lot of money that I think is wasted unless there is some very specific use case.

I was going off of the OP’s $1500 budget.  Even if he scores a nice deal that’s not going to get him to a TB.

Christof

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Re: First MacBook Purchase
« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2021, 05:29:24 PM »
Also, how long a lifespan should I expect?  I'm hoping this lasts 5 years like my iPhones seem to do..

We are still using a 2009 21.5" iMac. it is slow, admittedly. But you can make them boot from an external SSD, if you need to, which is also relatively cheap if you buy them used.

APBioSpartan

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Re: First MacBook Purchase
« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2021, 07:21:07 PM »
You're not going to like my response, but I feel obligated to tell you the truth.....

.... not worth it ....

I went through college and financed my own way. I also went through 3 MacBook Pro's......
1st) spilled a shot of Captain Morgan on it and fried the logic board ($900+ repair, so i replaced)
2nd) friend spilled a shot of Captain Morgan on it and friend the logic board ($900+ repair, so i replaced)
3rd) Room mate's dog spilled water on it and fried the logic board ($900+ repair, so I gave up)

Is my situation unique.... sure?  However, thinking that a college laptop purchase is "one-time" is not smart.  Things happen.... college happens.... Apple is literally TERRIBLE at water resistance and affordable and/or self-repairs.

I say this as a mac fanboy....... you're welcome. 

WhiteTrashCash

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Re: First MacBook Purchase
« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2021, 07:31:24 PM »
You should be aware going into a Mac purchase that Apple only officially supports their computers for seven years and then you have to get patches from GitHub to keep updating the OS. And definitely stay away from the Intel-based Macs because those won't be supported for very much longer.

Accrual

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Re: First MacBook Purchase
« Reply #13 on: April 12, 2021, 07:32:53 PM »
A new Macbook Pro will easily last 5 years. Most students will have Macs. Even computer science students.

Blackeagle

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Re: First MacBook Purchase
« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2021, 08:02:27 PM »
You're not going to like my response, but I feel obligated to tell you the truth.....

.... not worth it ....

I went through college and financed my own way. I also went through 3 MacBook Pro's......
1st) spilled a shot of Captain Morgan on it and fried the logic board ($900+ repair, so i replaced)
2nd) friend spilled a shot of Captain Morgan on it and friend the logic board ($900+ repair, so i replaced)
3rd) Room mate's dog spilled water on it and fried the logic board ($900+ repair, so I gave up)

Is my situation unique.... sure?  However, thinking that a college laptop purchase is "one-time" is not smart.  Things happen.... college happens.... Apple is literally TERRIBLE at water resistance and affordable and/or self-repairs.

I say this as a mac fanboy....... you're welcome.

AppleCare+

terran

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Re: First MacBook Purchase
« Reply #15 on: April 12, 2021, 08:45:35 PM »
You can knock a few bucks off by buying through the education store (available to current and newly accepted students): https://www.apple.com/us-hed/shop

I'd get an air -- my 2013 is still plugging along, though I'll probably upgrade once the 2nd generation of M1's come up (I figure that gives them a chance to work out the bugs, but that could be silly). I went for upgraded ram and base everything else, but it might not have been necessary as my wife's air bought at the same time with base everything is doing fine too. Don't begrudge your daughter the Mac. Maybe I'm just unlucky, but based on my track record with PCs (2 in like 3 years) I've been very happy with the Mac in that it just works, and it's still going.

seattlecyclone

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Re: First MacBook Purchase
« Reply #16 on: April 12, 2021, 08:55:08 PM »
I'm typing this on a MacBook Pro from 2012. This laptop replaced one from 2007, which replaced one from 2003. Seems like each new laptop lasts me a bit longer than the previous one. I'm still running Mojave on this because I have a few 32-bit games that I want to play from time to time. It's getting to the point where I am running into resource limitations from time to time (mostly related to the 8 GB of memory in the machine). I close a bunch of tabs and things run pretty smoothly again. My workload involves a lot of web browsing and software development; no photo/video editing or anything else that would tend to use a bunch of storage. My internal storage is 128 GB and I find that sufficient for my needs, given that I have a 1 TB external hard drive that I use for backups. The stuff I actually care about I keep a copy of on the laptop's internal storage plus the backup disk. Other things exist only on the backup drive and if it dies I probably won't miss it too much.

I heard bad things about the keyboards in new Apple laptops a few years ago, but I think they've fixed that problem? My wife bought a new one this year and it seems fine. I'll probably go another year or three on this laptop and upgrade once they have a chance to work out some of the problems from the v1 of the new processor architecture.

As to AppleCare+, I'd evaluate that the same as I would any other extended warranty program. They make money on the program overall, but if you have reason to believe that you will abuse your laptop a few standard deviations more than the mean customer, it's probably in your interest to buy the coverage. I've never ponied up for it, and have come out ahead from doing so. I have extra incentive to care for my hardware and not put it in the immediate vicinity of people who are so drunk that they can't avoid spilling their rum onto the keyboard. To each their own though.

Blackeagle

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Re: First MacBook Purchase
« Reply #17 on: April 13, 2021, 06:36:09 AM »
I heard bad things about the keyboards in new Apple laptops a few years ago, but I think they've fixed that problem?

Yep.  All of the current models have the good keyboard in them.

GoCubsGo

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Re: First MacBook Purchase
« Reply #18 on: April 13, 2021, 09:29:22 AM »
Great advice all. Thanks!

From what I gather, she won't be doing any major video editing, or intensive use type scenarios for her major.  She's not a gamer either.

The one available from Costco still looks like it checks most boxes (I like the pro has a cooling fan).  Only limitation is the 8Gb. I really want to buy from Costco.  Not sure how much it costs to go to 16Gb

It meets the price point I was shooting for too at $1,450.  I'll have to look into Apple care cost, but I'm generally not a fan of those plans

New MacBook Pro 13.3" – Apple M1 Chip 8-core CPU, 8-core GPU – 8GB Memory – 512GB SSD – Silver

Blackeagle

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Re: First MacBook Purchase
« Reply #19 on: April 13, 2021, 10:24:26 AM »
From what I gather, she won't be doing any major video editing, or intensive use type scenarios for her major.  She's not a gamer either.

From what you’ve said I don’t think she really needs a MacBook Pro.  The MacBook Air will do just fine.

The one available from Costco still looks like it checks most boxes (I like the pro has a cooling fan).  Only limitation is the 8Gb. I really want to buy from Costco.  Not sure how much it costs to go to 16Gb

It meets the price point I was shooting for too at $1,450.  I'll have to look into Apple care cost, but I'm generally not a fan of those plans

New MacBook Pro 13.3" – Apple M1 Chip 8-core CPU, 8-core GPU – 8GB Memory – 512GB SSD – Silver

From the Apple Education Store:
Apple M1 chip with 8‑core CPU, 7‑core GPU, and 16‑core Neural Engine
16GB unified memory
512GB SSD storage
$1259

GoCubsGo

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Re: First MacBook Purchase
« Reply #20 on: April 13, 2021, 10:30:49 AM »
Thanks Blackeagle!

JLee

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Re: First MacBook Purchase
« Reply #21 on: April 13, 2021, 10:35:37 AM »
From what I gather, she won't be doing any major video editing, or intensive use type scenarios for her major.  She's not a gamer either.

From what you’ve said I don’t think she really needs a MacBook Pro.  The MacBook Air will do just fine.

The one available from Costco still looks like it checks most boxes (I like the pro has a cooling fan).  Only limitation is the 8Gb. I really want to buy from Costco.  Not sure how much it costs to go to 16Gb

It meets the price point I was shooting for too at $1,450.  I'll have to look into Apple care cost, but I'm generally not a fan of those plans

New MacBook Pro 13.3" – Apple M1 Chip 8-core CPU, 8-core GPU – 8GB Memory – 512GB SSD – Silver

From the Apple Education Store:
Apple M1 chip with 8‑core CPU, 7‑core GPU, and 16‑core Neural Engine
16GB unified memory
512GB SSD storage
$1259

Have a link? I don't believe the 7 core GPU is available on anything but the base 8/256 configuration.

Blackeagle

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Re: First MacBook Purchase
« Reply #22 on: April 13, 2021, 10:37:54 AM »
From what I gather, she won't be doing any major video editing, or intensive use type scenarios for her major.  She's not a gamer either.

From what you’ve said I don’t think she really needs a MacBook Pro.  The MacBook Air will do just fine.

The one available from Costco still looks like it checks most boxes (I like the pro has a cooling fan).  Only limitation is the 8Gb. I really want to buy from Costco.  Not sure how much it costs to go to 16Gb

It meets the price point I was shooting for too at $1,450.  I'll have to look into Apple care cost, but I'm generally not a fan of those plans

New MacBook Pro 13.3" – Apple M1 Chip 8-core CPU, 8-core GPU – 8GB Memory – 512GB SSD – Silver

From the Apple Education Store:
Apple M1 chip with 8‑core CPU, 7‑core GPU, and 16‑core Neural Engine
16GB unified memory
512GB SSD storage
$1259

Have a link? I don't believe the 7 core GPU is available on anything but the base 8/256 configuration.

Start with the base model, then bump the specs on the RAM and SSD.

https://www.apple.com/us-hed/shop/buy-mac/macbook-air/silver-apple-m1-chip-with-8%E2%80%91core-cpu-and-7%E2%80%91core-gpu-256gb#

JLee

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Re: First MacBook Purchase
« Reply #23 on: April 13, 2021, 10:44:06 AM »
From what I gather, she won't be doing any major video editing, or intensive use type scenarios for her major.  She's not a gamer either.

From what you’ve said I don’t think she really needs a MacBook Pro.  The MacBook Air will do just fine.

The one available from Costco still looks like it checks most boxes (I like the pro has a cooling fan).  Only limitation is the 8Gb. I really want to buy from Costco.  Not sure how much it costs to go to 16Gb

It meets the price point I was shooting for too at $1,450.  I'll have to look into Apple care cost, but I'm generally not a fan of those plans

New MacBook Pro 13.3" – Apple M1 Chip 8-core CPU, 8-core GPU – 8GB Memory – 512GB SSD – Silver

From the Apple Education Store:
Apple M1 chip with 8‑core CPU, 7‑core GPU, and 16‑core Neural Engine
16GB unified memory
512GB SSD storage
$1259

Have a link? I don't believe the 7 core GPU is available on anything but the base 8/256 configuration.

Start with the base model, then bump the specs on the RAM and SSD.

https://www.apple.com/us-hed/shop/buy-mac/macbook-air/silver-apple-m1-chip-with-8%E2%80%91core-cpu-and-7%E2%80%91core-gpu-256gb#

No shit - I had no idea they were doing this!

jamesbond007

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Re: First MacBook Purchase
« Reply #24 on: April 13, 2021, 12:14:49 PM »
Don't forget AppleCare+ As much as Apple tries to mock other manufacturers and as much as the fanboys tout the quality, Apples still fail on par with other laptop manufacturers and repair costs are astronomical. AppleCare+ would take the sting out of repairs. Again, this is like insurance. You do you. FWIW, I only had 1 crappy Toshiba fail on me back in 2007. Never had any issues after that with any brand laptop. But I know a lot of my friends' laptops (mostly Apples) fail on them in year 2 or 3. They got screwed by Apple and were coerced into buying a new one by the geniuses. YMMV.

ChpBstrd

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Re: First MacBook Purchase
« Reply #25 on: April 13, 2021, 01:42:47 PM »
A lot of Apple people upgrade every 3 years, if not sooner, in the pursuit of marginal real-life benefits. I defy anyone to tell me what a $1,200 2021 MacBook can do that a $600 2017 MacBook can't do - and whatever that is, it probably doesn't have much to do with school. The good news is there is an active market for used machines.

You're looking for a Craigslist or Ebay machine, and you're hoping for it to last 2 years before it is damaged, stolen, or the battery doesn't last for 3-4 hours of classes in a row anymore. Worst case scenario, you end up replacing the battery at the genius bar for a whopping $130, or at a cell phone shop for $100. This is close to what you'd pay in sales tax alone on a new one!

Best case scenario - the spilled tequila shot fries a $600 computer instead of a $1200 computer, and so you buy another $600 computer. Worst case....IDK, is it too old to write reports? Snobby friends look down on you? Can't think of one.

Syonyk

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Re: First MacBook Purchase
« Reply #26 on: April 13, 2021, 01:50:41 PM »
A lot of Apple people upgrade every 3 years, if not sooner, in the pursuit of marginal real-life benefits. I defy anyone to tell me what a $1,200 2021 MacBook can do that a $600 2017 MacBook can't do - and whatever that is, it probably doesn't have much to do with school.

About 20 hours on battery in active use, longer if it's watching video, and run rings around the 2017 in every single metric because it's got the M1? :p

2019 and 2016, yeah, I'd agree with you, but you picked an architecture transition in there...

JLee

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Re: First MacBook Purchase
« Reply #27 on: April 13, 2021, 02:00:05 PM »
A lot of Apple people upgrade every 3 years, if not sooner, in the pursuit of marginal real-life benefits. I defy anyone to tell me what a $1,200 2021 MacBook can do that a $600 2017 MacBook can't do - and whatever that is, it probably doesn't have much to do with school. The good news is there is an active market for used machines.

You're looking for a Craigslist or Ebay machine, and you're hoping for it to last 2 years before it is damaged, stolen, or the battery doesn't last for 3-4 hours of classes in a row anymore. Worst case scenario, you end up replacing the battery at the genius bar for a whopping $130, or at a cell phone shop for $100. This is close to what you'd pay in sales tax alone on a new one!

Best case scenario - the spilled tequila shot fries a $600 computer instead of a $1200 computer, and so you buy another $600 computer. Worst case....IDK, is it too old to write reports? Snobby friends look down on you? Can't think of one.

As @Syonyk pointed out, the M1 CPU changed the game.  The 2020 Air obliterates the 2019 Pro in both single and multi threaded CPU benchmarks and has about four times the GPU performance of the 2019 Air:

https://eshop.macsales.com/blog/68112-m1-macbook-air-benchmarks-and-review/



Quote
For perspective, the previous MacBook Air with a Core i3 chip had solid performance and long battery life for more than eight hours of work. The M1 MacBook Air has extraordinary performance (up to 3.7x faster on paper) and still lasts more than twice as long doing the same work with the same capacity battery.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2020/dec/09/apple-macbook-air-m1-review-gamechanging-speed-and-battery-life

ChpBstrd

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Re: First MacBook Purchase
« Reply #28 on: April 13, 2021, 02:04:49 PM »
A lot of Apple people upgrade every 3 years, if not sooner, in the pursuit of marginal real-life benefits. I defy anyone to tell me what a $1,200 2021 MacBook can do that a $600 2017 MacBook can't do - and whatever that is, it probably doesn't have much to do with school.

About 20 hours on battery in active use, longer if it's watching video, and run rings around the 2017 in every single metric because it's got the M1? :p

2019 and 2016, yeah, I'd agree with you, but you picked an architecture transition in there...

I'm sure whatever's newer wins all the technical benchmarks, but what does it do differently for a college student?

The basic functions for a college student include:

 -take notes in class, assume 4 consecutive classes or study groups where there is no plug available at 1h apiece
 -web searches and online classes
 -read PDFs and images
 -do Zoom calls with HS friends, family back home, and the occasional class
 -write reports
 -spreadsheets
 -avoid student loan debt to whatever extent possible
 -store a few GB of documents, photos, and images
 -ideally, look like it's in rough shape to deter theft

So really any functioning MacBook will do, subject to the battery still working for 4h. My answer would be different for a highly-compensated senior video and special effects editor who writes off the cost of the newest tech each year.
 

JLee

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Re: First MacBook Purchase
« Reply #29 on: April 13, 2021, 02:07:05 PM »
A lot of Apple people upgrade every 3 years, if not sooner, in the pursuit of marginal real-life benefits. I defy anyone to tell me what a $1,200 2021 MacBook can do that a $600 2017 MacBook can't do - and whatever that is, it probably doesn't have much to do with school.

About 20 hours on battery in active use, longer if it's watching video, and run rings around the 2017 in every single metric because it's got the M1? :p

2019 and 2016, yeah, I'd agree with you, but you picked an architecture transition in there...

I'm sure whatever's newer wins all the technical benchmarks, but what does it do differently for a college student?

The basic functions for a college student include:

 -take notes in class, assume 4 consecutive classes or study groups where there is no plug available at 1h apiece
 -web searches and online classes
 -read PDFs and images
 -do Zoom calls with HS friends, family back home, and the occasional class
 -write reports
 -spreadsheets
 -avoid student loan debt to whatever extent possible
 -store a few GB of documents, photos, and images
 -ideally, look like it's in rough shape to deter theft

So really any functioning MacBook will do, subject to the battery still working for 4h. My answer would be different for a highly-compensated senior video and special effects editor who writes off the cost of the newest tech each year.

*watches goalposts move in front of his very eyes*

GoCubsGo

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Re: First MacBook Purchase
« Reply #30 on: April 13, 2021, 02:11:42 PM »


You're looking for a Craigslist or Ebay machine, and you're hoping for it to last 2 years before it is damaged, stolen, or the battery doesn't last for 3-4 hours of classes in a row anymore. Worst case scenario, you end up replacing the battery at the genius bar for a whopping $130, or at a cell phone shop for $100. This is close to what you'd pay in sales tax alone on a new one!


I hear you on the cost difference, but I truly loathe tech purchases, mostly because I'm not into it and because I hate changing over. The least amount of times I have to deal with it the better and if I don't have to deal with it for 4-5 years, it's worth the money to me (especially with her being hours away from home). Most of her college age friends swear by their Mac's and while I'm sure some of it is branding, I'm also pretty sure they truly work well.  Also, the more I read, the more the M1 chip seems to be a big deal (but I'm not interested enough to research the why of it).  We've always had great luck with loooong life spans of our Apple phones (I JUST got rid of my 6 for a 12).

JLee

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Re: First MacBook Purchase
« Reply #31 on: April 13, 2021, 02:13:48 PM »


You're looking for a Craigslist or Ebay machine, and you're hoping for it to last 2 years before it is damaged, stolen, or the battery doesn't last for 3-4 hours of classes in a row anymore. Worst case scenario, you end up replacing the battery at the genius bar for a whopping $130, or at a cell phone shop for $100. This is close to what you'd pay in sales tax alone on a new one!


I truly loathe tech purchases, mostly because I'm not into it and because I hate changing over. The least amount of times I have to deal with it the better and if I don't have to deal with it for 4-5 years, it's worth the money to me (especially with her being hours away from home). Most of her college age friends swear by their Mac's and while I'm sure some of it is branding, I'm also pretty sure they truly work well. Also, the more I read, the more the M1 chip seems to be a big deal (but I'm not interested enough to research the why of it).  We've always had great luck with loooong life spans of our Apple phones (I JUST got rid of my 6 for a 12).

Check out the links I posted above. It's truly a huge shift in the computing world as a whole -- its punching WAY above its weight class.  Like imagine the next Honda Fit was providing Ferrari performance, but wasn't any more expensive than usual.

GoCubsGo

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Re: First MacBook Purchase
« Reply #32 on: April 13, 2021, 02:19:20 PM »
Yeah, I definitely think I'll go the M1 route...

World's dumbest computer question.  What do Mac people do for spreadsheets and Word docs.   I truly don't know as I've only owned Windows based computers?  Can you get Excel on a Mac  (I feel real dumb asking this)

JLee

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Re: First MacBook Purchase
« Reply #33 on: April 13, 2021, 02:42:01 PM »
Yeah, I definitely think I'll go the M1 route...

World's dumbest computer question.  What do Mac people do for spreadsheets and Word docs.   I truly don't know as I've only owned Windows based computers?  Can you get Excel on a Mac  (I feel real dumb asking this)

I typically use Google Sheets/Docs (I don't do much spreadsheeting for work and if I do I'm on a work machine) but Microsoft does have Office for Mac: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-365/mac/microsoft-365-for-mac

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Re: First MacBook Purchase
« Reply #34 on: April 13, 2021, 02:55:03 PM »
Yeah, I definitely think I'll go the M1 route...

World's dumbest computer question.  What do Mac people do for spreadsheets and Word docs.   I truly don't know as I've only owned Windows based computers?  Can you get Excel on a Mac  (I feel real dumb asking this)

Google Docs/Sheets/Slides. OR Office Online.

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Re: First MacBook Purchase
« Reply #35 on: April 13, 2021, 03:03:05 PM »
*watches goalposts move in front of his very eyes*

I suppose I should have asked. Does it matter? What exactly do you get when you buy a benchmark? Can you sit on it? Wouldn't a $6,000 Mac Pro be a more straightforward way to buy benchmarks? 

It's truly a huge shift in the computing world as a whole -- its punching WAY above its weight class.  Like imagine the next Honda Fit was providing Ferrari performance, but wasn't any more expensive than usual.

And the main benefits are being more competitive at gaming and not having to plug in as often, right? Are these benefits worth an extra $600 to a college student who earns $12/hour, pretax, washing dishes in the back of a restaurant, or someone who is borrowing those $600 at 7% interest and will end up paying $1,000 for these benefits over time?

To me, this is the essence of mustachianism. Do I really need the shiny new thing and its technical specifications that seem cool now but will be obsolete in 5 4 years? Similarly, should 5 year old laptops with 6+ years of life remaining be discarded on Ebay because the new models have better benchmarks, stats, and specs? This should be an easy question for anyone more serious about academics than gaming.

I could buy an oversized HVAC system for my house and get awesome statistics, and a great deal in terms of BTUs per dollar, and have the best HVAC in the neighborhood. But it would just cycle on and off constantly and run up a high bill because it's the wrong size for its application. Similarly, I could commute a Ford F350 to my office job (as some coworkers do) because its Powerstroke diesel V10 has "best-in-class torque and horsepower", yada yada, but that would just be an incineration of resources because the subcompact car gets me there just fine for a third the cost of ownership. Paying hundreds extra to use a M1 chip for taking notes maybe two hours a day is similar, IMO.

Yeah, I definitely think I'll go the M1 route...

World's dumbest computer question.  What do Mac people do for spreadsheets and Word docs.   I truly don't know as I've only owned Windows based computers?  Can you get Excel on a Mac  (I feel real dumb asking this)

$150
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-365/buy/compare-microsoft-365-products-for-mac

Blackeagle

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Re: First MacBook Purchase
« Reply #36 on: April 13, 2021, 03:11:20 PM »
World's dumbest computer question.  What do Mac people do for spreadsheets and Word docs.   I truly don't know as I've only owned Windows based computers?  Can you get Excel on a Mac  (I feel real dumb asking this)

Yes, you can get Excel.  Other options are Google Sheets (as already mentioned) and Apple’s Numbers (free, but pretty basic compared to Excel).

Syonyk

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Re: First MacBook Purchase
« Reply #37 on: April 13, 2021, 03:30:31 PM »
I'm sure whatever's newer wins all the technical benchmarks, but what does it do differently for a college student?

The battery life alone.  It's a literally all-day laptop, even when you beat on it hard, constantly.  If you don't, it's closer to an all-week laptop.

Also, in the context of Apple, as they're trying to transition rather rapidly to Apple Silicon across the board, it will almost certainly have a longer supported life and better resale value than an Intel one in 5 years.

Quote
So really any functioning MacBook will do, subject to the battery still working for 4h.

Eh.  I spent an awful lot of college scrounging outlets for laptops with "4h" battery life.

Also, the more I read, the more the M1 chip seems to be a big deal (but I'm not interested enough to research the why of it).

It really, really is.  To borrow the car analogy being abused mildly in this thread, it's a Honda Fit for the same price as the previous year, that, oh, by the way, can tap 200mph, tow 8000 lbs, and gets you about 150mpg.  It really is that revolutionary in laptop performance.

World's dumbest computer question.  What do Mac people do for spreadsheets and Word docs.   I truly don't know as I've only owned Windows based computers?  Can you get Excel on a Mac  (I feel real dumb asking this)

Office.  Microsoft Office for Mac has, often enough, gotten new features on Apple before the Windows team got around to it.  It's a flagship application, though I've got an older version and am not at all sure about the current stuff, but it works fine.  Or Google Sheets.

Numbers is useful for generating charts to embed in Keynote and that's about it.

I suppose I should have asked. Does it matter? What exactly do you get when you buy a benchmark? Can you sit on it? Wouldn't a $6,000 Mac Pro be a more straightforward way to buy benchmarks?

Not if you want to carry it around to class, no.  But for laptops, "cool under heavy load" is pretty darn nice.

Quote
To me, this is the essence of mustachianism. Do I really need the shiny new thing and its technical specifications that seem cool now but will be obsolete in 5 4 years? Similarly, should 5 year old laptops with 6+ years of life remaining be discarded on Ebay because the new models have better benchmarks, stats, and specs? This should be an easy question for anyone more serious about academics than gaming.

The problem here is that the last 4 years of Apple laptops (2016 to 2019) have had fundamentally broken keyboards.  I agree with you about "used when possible," but I also would spend money on a 2016-2019 Apple laptop, and if you gave me one for free, I'd sell it while the keyboard still worked.  They're just known faulty.

So you're at either a last gen Intel (that are hot, battery hungry pains in the rear to deal with), a mid-2015 which are getting on the old side for another 4-5 years of use, or a M1.

Of those, the M1 is a far better option.  There's no comparison between my 2015 MBP and my M1 Mac Mini.  The M1 absolutely crushes it in performance, and would do the same in battery life in a laptop form factor.

Apple, the past couple years, isn't following a linear path that optimizes for buying stuff a few years old.

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Re: First MacBook Purchase
« Reply #38 on: April 13, 2021, 03:35:05 PM »
I bought a PowerBook G4 for school in August 2004. When Apple announced the transition to Intel, I knew that my Mac's future was limited. You can bet that Apple will fully drop support for Intel based Macs 7 years after the last one is (was? - I don't follow Apple tech anymore) discontinued. About 2-3 years after the last Intel Mac is discontinued, I'd expect only OS security updates for Intel Macs.

Don't forget AppleCare+ As much as Apple tries to mock other manufacturers and as much as the fanboys tout the quality, Apples still fail on par with other laptop manufacturers and repair costs are astronomical. AppleCare+ would take the sting out of repairs. Again, this is like insurance.
My PowerBook developed a column of dead pixels about two years after purchase. The display was replaced by AppleCare.

A new Macbook Pro will easily last 5 years. Most students will have Macs. Even computer science students.
I wonder if the move away from Intel processors will impact the number of computer science students with Macs; but that shouldn't make a difference for students outside computer science.

Syonyk

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Re: First MacBook Purchase
« Reply #39 on: April 13, 2021, 03:40:57 PM »
I wonder if the move away from Intel processors will impact the number of computer science students with Macs; but that shouldn't make a difference for students outside computer science.

Why would it?  The only thing it would matter for are things like OS development classes based around Intel, but if a college is at all looking at the trends on the ground (which is a long stretch for many), they'd be doing OS dev classes with Raspberry Pis on AArch64, running AArch32 userspace binaries as well.  Or you can do basic x86 emulation for osdev work on the M1, emulated in qemu.  You can run graphical x86 Ubuntu on the M1, in full emulation, and it's not terribly fast, but it's usable which is properly impressive.  More than enough for OS development courses.

Most of Com Sci isn't terribly architecture specific.  Cpr E may be, but then you've usually got lab machines for the weirder stuff.

That it's blisteringly fast, with "I can literally work all day on this, beating on it"?  I would expect most ComSci types to swarm to it.  Large project builds don't destroy the battery time like they do on the Intel ones.

Blackeagle

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Re: First MacBook Purchase
« Reply #40 on: April 13, 2021, 04:12:52 PM »
I wonder if the move away from Intel processors will impact the number of computer science students with Macs; but that shouldn't make a difference for students outside computer science.

Actually, I’d think that CompSci students would be less likely to be put off by the switch to Intel than some other fields.  Most Mac programming tools have already been ported to the new architecture and those that don’t will usually run fine under Rosetta.  The only potential stumbling block is anything that requires virtualizing or booting into Windows, but my impression is that’s pretty few and far between in CompSci programs.

More likely to be affected are other fields that rely on specialized Windows-specific software.  As a geographer, my personal example would be Geographic Information Systems software.  The standard is ESRI’s ArcGIS, which is Windows only.  With an Intel Mac you could get around this through virtualizing or booting into Windows, but with an M1 Mac you’re out of luck (at least until Microsoft sees the light and starts licensing the ARM version of Windows, and even that would require emulating Intel).  I’m sure there are other fields out there where a critical piece of software is Windows only.

Syonyk

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Re: First MacBook Purchase
« Reply #41 on: April 13, 2021, 04:17:56 PM »
There are ways to run the ARM version of Windows as a VM, and rely on Microsoft's x86 to ARM translation, but it's certainly a "This is technically possible and the licensing is really questionable but nobody has told us to stop..." sort of thing right now.

JLee

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Re: First MacBook Purchase
« Reply #42 on: April 13, 2021, 06:47:28 PM »
*watches goalposts move in front of his very eyes*

I suppose I should have asked. Does it matter? What exactly do you get when you buy a benchmark? Can you sit on it? Wouldn't a $6,000 Mac Pro be a more straightforward way to buy benchmarks? 

It's truly a huge shift in the computing world as a whole -- its punching WAY above its weight class.  Like imagine the next Honda Fit was providing Ferrari performance, but wasn't any more expensive than usual.

And the main benefits are being more competitive at gaming and not having to plug in as often, right? Are these benefits worth an extra $600 to a college student who earns $12/hour, pretax, washing dishes in the back of a restaurant, or someone who is borrowing those $600 at 7% interest and will end up paying $1,000 for these benefits over time?

To me, this is the essence of mustachianism. Do I really need the shiny new thing and its technical specifications that seem cool now but will be obsolete in 5 4 years? Similarly, should 5 year old laptops with 6+ years of life remaining be discarded on Ebay because the new models have better benchmarks, stats, and specs? This should be an easy question for anyone more serious about academics than gaming.

I could buy an oversized HVAC system for my house and get awesome statistics, and a great deal in terms of BTUs per dollar, and have the best HVAC in the neighborhood. But it would just cycle on and off constantly and run up a high bill because it's the wrong size for its application. Similarly, I could commute a Ford F350 to my office job (as some coworkers do) because its Powerstroke diesel V10 has "best-in-class torque and horsepower", yada yada, but that would just be an incineration of resources because the subcompact car gets me there just fine for a third the cost of ownership. Paying hundreds extra to use a M1 chip for taking notes maybe two hours a day is similar, IMO.

Yeah, I definitely think I'll go the M1 route...

World's dumbest computer question.  What do Mac people do for spreadsheets and Word docs.   I truly don't know as I've only owned Windows based computers?  Can you get Excel on a Mac  (I feel real dumb asking this)

$150
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-365/buy/compare-microsoft-365-products-for-mac

Oh ffs.

1) And the main benefits are being more competitive at gaming and not having to plug in as often, right?

Wrong.

2) Are these benefits worth an extra $600

Extra $300, given M1 Airs are often available for $900.

3)  technical specifications that seem cool now but will be obsolete in 5 4 years? Similarly, should 5 year old laptops with 6+ years of life remaining be discarded on Ebay because the new models have better benchmarks, stats, and specs?

As far as I'm concerned, M1 has rendered every previous Macbook obsolete, even ones that were single digit months old at the time.  It's a massive leap that will allow the new machines to remain viable for a long time -- if you want something to be usable for the 11 years you claim, that's all the more incentive to purchase something that's multiples faster with multiples of the battery life for a small price premium.

4) I could buy an oversized HVAC system for my house and get awesome statistics, and a great deal in terms of BTUs per dollar, and have the best HVAC in the neighborhood. But it would just cycle on and off constantly and run up a high bill because it's the wrong size for its application.

You actually wouldn't get awesome statistics, and your primary issue here would be lack of dehumidification due to short run cycles...but your analogy falls apart anyway because we aren't talking about buying the "best" laptop. We're talking about buying the base of the base models that Apple offers...literally the EXACT SAME MODEL YOU ARE TELLING PEOPLE TO BUY, but new instead of old.  If your house needed an HVAC replacement, would you buy one that's 5 years old to save $300 even though it won't heat or cool as well as a new one and will use massively more power?

5) This should be an easy question for anyone more serious about academics than gaming.

These are not gaming-focused machines. At all.  Your clinging to the "gaming" moniker is just reinforcing a general lack of understanding of the topic at hand.



Let's put it this way.  5, 6, 7 years from now, let's say for the sake of argument that your M1 laptop's battery life degrades to 50% of new life. 

It'll still demolish a non M1 laptop with a new battery.

If you think you can get six years of life out of a 5yo Macbook, then you can get eleven years out of this.  You're arguing over $3-400 over eleven years, and for the duration of its lifespan you'll have a machine that's 3x+ as fast and has multiples of the battery life.

That seems an easy call, but I actually use my computers so maybe our standards are different.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2021, 06:49:06 PM by JLee »

begood

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Re: First MacBook Purchase
« Reply #43 on: April 14, 2021, 09:02:06 AM »
We say my kid's superpower is killing electronics, so we always get AppleCare+. It's paid for itself on all of the kid's devices. We will probably be buying a new MacBook Pro this summer for them to take to college - their current one is 4 years old and has been repaired twice already.

LD_TAndK

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Re: First MacBook Purchase
« Reply #44 on: April 14, 2021, 09:36:30 AM »
Not relevant to the original poster, but I went through college for a technical major with a poor performance $300 windows laptop and it was no problem, I used a campus computer lab to do processing intensive work when needed. The campus computer lab was also easier for using licensed software than trying to get the software for my own machine, though that was an option.

Peers breaking their laptops in dumb ways was common, seems like there's a high probability you'll need to replace it.

Also all our lecture halls and classrooms were riddled with outlets, improved battery performance really isn't needed in a university environment.

Syonyk

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Re: First MacBook Purchase
« Reply #45 on: April 14, 2021, 11:24:39 AM »
Peers breaking their laptops in dumb ways was common, seems like there's a high probability you'll need to replace it.

It really depends on the person and era of laptops.

I made, if not "good money" in grad school, "enough money to justify the time" extracting surplus value out of broken laptops.  Even a broken laptop has some parts of value, and in the Apple ecosystem especially, there are few enough models that you can often piece stuff together into a working unit.  I had a "Panda" Macbook (black and white) for a while, because I had a working chassis from one of the colors and a working screen of other color.

I also had a 12" Powerbook G4 (still an amazing little bit of engineering) I got for nearly nothing with bad RAM onboard.  Couple lifted pins later, a stick of RAM in the external slot, and I was back in business.  Now, I'd just replace the RAM chip, but I didn't have hot air rework back then.

alsoknownasDean

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Re: First MacBook Purchase
« Reply #46 on: April 15, 2021, 06:46:58 AM »
Thanks! That's the type of info I need.  Originally, I was targeting this one from Costco:

MacBook Pro 13.3" – Apple M1 Chip 8-core CPU, 8-core GPU – 8GB Memory – 512GB SSD – Silver- $1,450

I'd love to buy from Costco since they have a solid return policy, but it looks like it only has 8GB of memory

Would a 13" screen be big enough?? 

Also, how long a lifespan should I expect?  I'm hoping this lasts 5 years like my iPhones seem to do..

My old Macbook lasted a decade in use, with a couple of upgrades/replacements along the way (RAM, SSD and a battery replacement).

I ended up going back to Windows because when I was looking to buy, Apple were still in the 'garbage keyboards' era. If I were buying now an M1 Air would certainly be considered.

achvfi

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Re: First MacBook Purchase
« Reply #47 on: April 15, 2021, 08:28:22 AM »
Thanks! That's the type of info I need.  Originally, I was targeting this one from Costco:

MacBook Pro 13.3" – Apple M1 Chip 8-core CPU, 8-core GPU – 8GB Memory – 512GB SSD – Silver- $1,450

I'd love to buy from Costco since they have a solid return policy, but it looks like it only has 8GB of memory

Would a 13" screen be big enough?? 

Also, how long a lifespan should I expect?  I'm hoping this lasts 5 years like my iPhones seem to do..

My old Macbook lasted a decade in use, with a couple of upgrades/replacements along the way (RAM, SSD and a battery replacement).

I ended up going back to Windows because when I was looking to buy, Apple were still in the 'garbage keyboards' era. If I were buying now an M1 Air would certainly be considered.

Adding to the chorus. Definitely go with macbook if you can.
I still use my 2012 retina display macbook pro. It still amazes me. I never had that much luck with other cheaper PCs like dell or hp.

New M1 chip macs have amazing reviews and are very powerful for even a base configuration. unless your kid is gonna be doing very high resource intensive tasks. You can just go with base configuration and use external SSD if they need to in future.

Also check out what is in store on April 20th apple event. They might have new related products.

achvfi

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Re: First MacBook Purchase
« Reply #48 on: April 15, 2021, 08:33:55 AM »
Yeah, I definitely think I'll go the M1 route...

World's dumbest computer question.  What do Mac people do for spreadsheets and Word docs.   I truly don't know as I've only owned Windows based computers?  Can you get Excel on a Mac  (I feel real dumb asking this)

I typically use Google Sheets/Docs (I don't do much spreadsheeting for work and if I do I'm on a work machine) but Microsoft does have Office for Mac: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-365/mac/microsoft-365-for-mac

Google sheets/docs are great option.

If you have work program with Microsoft office, you may be able to get MS office for personal use for 10-20 bucks.

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