Author Topic: More torture therapy? Psychologist? Next Step!?  (Read 5351 times)

Sailor Sam

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More torture therapy? Psychologist? Next Step!?
« on: March 03, 2022, 07:25:40 AM »
I'm seeking advice on the next step in my emotional evolution! Isn't that fun?*

BACKGROUND:
I've recently started therapy. Specifically to address work-based procrastination, but also because I'm naturally an anxiety ridden ball of rage and bad hair days.

I'm taking an SSRI for anxiety, and have been for 2 years. First it worked great, then it worked not great. I talked to my doctor, and we decided to increase the dose. The higher dose is again working great, but the pattern is grim. The procrastination is terrible, and eventually there will be consequences.

I decided to start therapy, which my friends have vigorously advocated for, and which I've vigorously resisted.

Therapy is really fucking weird. And also terrible? The office is disorganized. The appt reminder verified an in-person visit, but when I showed up I was told it was tele-health. The receptionist behind the counter was abrupt, and essentially made fixing the error my problem. Once I actually got set up for the appt - sitting in my car in the parking lot - I realized the "tele-health" are strictly phone, no video. I admit that loathing the phone is my own problem, but this seems like an odd choice for a branch of medicine that needs connection and vulnerability in order to progress.

Most of the first session was intake questions, and didn't have time to address many specifics. I reluctantly booked a second appt, which was Monday. It was again on the phone, but being at home made it a little more pleasant since I could pace, etc. Except...the therapist really sounded like she was maybe doing housework? Making coffee? There was a lot of rustling, and clanking, and it was very obvious she was moving around. She also justified a few repeat questions with "I'm not at my computer right now." 

We did get to talk about my procrastination. She suggested serval hacks that  can be used to waylay procrastination. I told her I've been doing layman's research using books and YouTube videos, and that I've tried the hacks she suggested and found very limited success with them. I also told her my suspicion is that the hacks stop working because it still takes willpower to even decide to use them, and that willpower is an exhaustible resource.  She reiterated that procrastination could be beaten by "just starting."

The reiteration to "just start" made me feel truly hopeless, and I teared up. Because, if the fix to procrastination is to "just start," and I've already failed at "just starting," then I'm permanently broken and will be like this forever. I made some vague protests that I felt I needed more help than that, and she suggested making myself sit down for just 5 minutes, and then slowly extending the time I could focus on the task.


REQUEST FOR INPUT:
I Understand that it can take several attempts to find the right therapist, but I've also gotten some advice that I'm entering at the wrong level. The clinics I have access to through heath insurance are LCSW, and truly, no disrespect to social workers,  but I don't need help accessing resources. I'm smart enough to find those on my own. I need help with my brain.

Should I seek out a psychologist, or should I try again with another LCSW? If I decide to go to a psychologist, I'll have to pay out of pocket. If I try another LCSW, then I'll have to go back onto the wait list, which is currently about 3 months long.


*oh god, feelings. Feelings all over the place. Touching me. Get it off, get it off, getitoff.

pbkmaine

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Re: More torture therapy? Psychologist? Next Step!?
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2022, 07:40:07 AM »
It’s worth the money, Sam. Nothing is more important than health, and mental health is part of that. Look for psychologists or psychiatrists.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2022, 08:09:20 AM by pbkmaine »

cool7hand

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Re: More torture therapy? Psychologist? Next Step!?
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2022, 07:42:54 AM »
Google: The Hoffman Process. If it speaks to you and you have questions, please DM me.

former player

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Re: More torture therapy? Psychologist? Next Step!?
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2022, 07:50:59 AM »
I have no advice on therapy but have a lifelong habit of procrastination.

One of my bosses noticed (the rest, not so much) and gave me a piece of very practical advice: he said that if you get a problem you find difficult, instead of taking time to come up with the perfect answer you send an immediate reply setting out just your first thoughts (and covering your back by saying that they are your first thoughts).  Very often those first thoughts will be all that is required and the kudos received for dealing with the issue so quickly outweighs the rough and ready nature of the reply.

I don't know if that will help you, but it did me.  I hope if it doesn't you find what will.

Dicey

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Re: More torture therapy? Psychologist? Next Step!?
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2022, 07:57:27 AM »
IMO, you need to set up a matching fund. For every dollar you spend on Puppy Boi, you put the same amount in your newly established "Fix My Brain" account. Then you spend it on the best help that money can buy, and more if necessary. Do it. Puppy Boi needs you to stay around and be healthy and so do we.

I, too, am a world-class procrastinator. I never really solved it, but post-FIRE, it's way less of a problem ;-)

LifeHappens

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Re: More torture therapy? Psychologist? Next Step!?
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2022, 07:59:06 AM »
Paging @Gray Matter

sonofsven

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Re: More torture therapy? Psychologist? Next Step!?
« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2022, 09:01:42 AM »
I've been through a few therapists over the years, both helpful and not.
For me, therapy over the phone would be a non starter. Maybe after I had a good relationship with the therapist, trust would need to be established first though.
I'm also a pro (crastinator). Making the appointment and showing up for it are important parts of the process for me, it signifies a commitment on my part and I'm more likely to have a successful result if I'm committed.
Note: I've never sought help for procrastination. I just try to manage it and accept it. It's not hard for me to accept it, it is sometimes hard for others.

ixtap

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Re: More torture therapy? Psychologist? Next Step!?
« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2022, 09:06:31 AM »
IMO, you need to set up a matching fund. For every dollar you spend on Puppy Boi, you put the same amount in your newly established "Fix My Brain" account. Then you spend it on the best help that money can buy, and more if necessary. Do it. Puppy Boi needs you to stay around and be healthy and so do we.

I, too, am a world-class procrastinator. I never really solved it, but post-FIRE, it's way less of a problem ;-)

LOVE this matching idea! I also used to justify what others might call entertainment expenses as my mental health budget, specifically dance classes.

Sometimes it takes a few tries to find a therapist you can work with. One of my big problems is being seen, so having a distracted therapist while we were still getting to know each other would be a HUGE turnoff.

parkerk

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Re: More torture therapy? Psychologist? Next Step!?
« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2022, 10:29:57 AM »
I don't have a ton of advice but I can absolutely commiserate on the difficulties of finding a therapist at all and then having a couple false starts finding someone good. To put it bluntly that therapist sounds terrible and you're right to ditch them.

Is it an option to start seeing someone out of pocket now, and also put yourself back on the waitlist to see if you can get someone at the insurance-covered clinics who doesn't suck? 

Villanelle

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Re: More torture therapy? Psychologist? Next Step!?
« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2022, 10:56:43 AM »
Maybe I just got lucky, but I had a lot of success with my LCSW for my social anxiety.  I mean, I'm still an anxious stammering mess in some social situations, but I'm sort of cheerfully okay with that now. 

I also attempted to start therapy again in Covid.  That same LCSW couldn't see me anymore because she's not licensed in my current state.  The person I was basically assigned to was awful.  It felt like prepackaged therapy.  To be fair to her, I had difficulty clearly articulating my problem.  But instead of digging in to that, she assumed she knew my problem. She settled on "mindfulness" and how I needed to stop with my morning cup of coffee*** and think about how it smelled, how it felt on my tongue, how the steam looked rising from my cup.  That has nothing to do with my problem. I politely thanked her, she told me to contact her office for a next appointment, and I never did anything more.   (Mine was also teleheath, but it was at least video.)

I actually felt almost insulted by the whole thing because it was so basic.  Maybe that's not fair.  But LCSW1 once said I was a "talented natural CBTist on my own".  So I've thought through this shit a lot. Thinking through shit too much is like... my thing.   Heck, thinking through shit too much is half the reason I need therapy.  I've tried the basics.  So "sniff your coffee" in the context of a major existential crisis was not only not helpful, it was disheartening.   Because like you, I then felt a sort of hopelessness.  If "Smell stuff" is what the psychological establishment has to offer, I'm fucked because no amount of beverage sniffing is going to make me feel okay with the world and my place in it.

All of this is to say that fit is important.  Person2 helped me realize some things that are important for me if I ever give it another try.  Some of them feel icky to articulate, like, "look, I have a Mensa-level IQ, so I need someone genuinely smart, and who recognizes that I'm smart, too, and won't patronize me or assume she understands my very complex problems after 10 minutes".  But I think if I do try again, I'll just suck it up and tell them my list during any intake, even if it makes me sound like an asshole.  Even if they don't tell me outright that they aren't a match, I think their responses would be telling.  So maybe consider something along those lines.

But mostly, this is just to commiserate, and to be another voice saying, "fit is everything".  IDK if the odds are better outside LCSW, but I do know that its not that much different than dating.  You have to connect, and the person that is perfect for someone else might be shit for you. 

***I don't even drink coffee and while that's not the point, it felt like just another way she was showing she had no idea who I was, what my problem was, or how to start fixing it.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2022, 11:05:23 AM by Villanelle »

mm1970

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Re: More torture therapy? Psychologist? Next Step!?
« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2022, 11:00:54 AM »
Quote
*oh god, feelings. Feelings all over the place. Touching me. Get it off, get it off, getitoff.

I just want to say hugs.  And by that I mean: no hugs.  No touching.  Just...I'm sorry.

Apples

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Re: More torture therapy? Psychologist? Next Step!?
« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2022, 11:24:45 AM »
Please pay out of pocket to see someone who can actually help.   You deserve it.  There are way better solutions out there than "just start".  And I find that kind of hack helpful when I'm already at a decent willpower level, just procrastinating a bit.  I've been in a similar rut to you (though without diagnosed depression, but certainly something I can all a rut), and those hacks are meaningless.  For me, it felt overwhelming to tackle the issue, and to pull my brain space together enough to even figure out how to break it into the small bit that I could just do for 5 minutes.  I don't know if that's how you feel, but I know when I was in that situation being told to just start felt like telling someone with a broken ankle to just walk on it.  Sure, an eventual goal, but not actually the solution to the present situation.  Your current LCSW is not the right person to handle this task.  Setting up an appointment at a new place sucks and will drain that willpower energy, but I think it's the most important thing you can do this week.

SunnyDays

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Re: More torture therapy? Psychologist? Next Step!?
« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2022, 11:31:26 AM »
In my experience, procrastination is caused by two things:  absolutely despising what you have to do or having perfectionistic thoughts about the end product.  Or you are self sabotaging because you think you a) deserve failure or b) fear the success that might result.  It’s important to figure out what lies beneath the behaviour so you can address that.  A psychologist might be a better option than a social worker to help you get to the root of it, because clearly behavioural solutions aren’t working for you.  You need to find out what’s behind the paralysis.  Go to a PhD or PsyD level, regardless of cost, because no/ineffective therapy will end up costing you a lot more.


Laura33

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Re: More torture therapy? Psychologist? Next Step!?
« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2022, 11:40:12 AM »
I also told her my suspicion is that the hacks stop working because it still takes willpower to even decide to use them, and that willpower is an exhaustible resource.  She reiterated that procrastination could be beaten by "just starting," conclusively demonstrating that she is precisely the wrong person to be providing therapy to me.

FTFY

Lifelong procrastinator here.  Even reading that makes me want to scream "if I could 'just start,' I wouldn't be wasting my time talking to you now, would I?"  It hurts my brain, it does. 

FWIW, I still haven't figured out a great way to manage procrastination -- because, as you note, it takes willpower even to take that first little bitty step.  My version is to wait until the last minute, when my overriding fear of failure kicks in and pushes me into high gear, then collapse back into Jabba the Hutt mode as soon as it's done.  Not the most mellow, healthy way to go through life.

I do, however, have two recommendations, FWIW:

1.  Find a new therapist, stat.  Look for someone who specializes in Cognitive Behavioral Therapy or ADHD.  These folks are much more likely to have actually helpful suggestions for how to make progress.  It is 100% worth paying out-of-pocket if you have to.

2.  Do a little navel-gazing to see if you can recognize patterns and triggers.  Are there certain things that you happily dive into and others that you put off until half-past-deadline?  One option is to "fix" yourself to make you do the bad stuff; a better option is to figure out how not to have to do the bad stuff at all.  Bills can be put on auto-pay; jobs can be quit; social events can be postponed until you feel like it; etc.  At a minimum, this can help you feel better about yourself, because your ever-present List of Failures becomes a lot smaller.

And also look at whether you are actually getting everything you need in your life.  At one point, I was very angry with myself for wasting so much time on the internet and watching TV.  Then I realized that I was frustrated because I am an introvert, and my day was filled with meeting other people's needs, and so my brain was rebelling because I just needed more time in which it was allowed to turn off.  So I then started actually scheduling brainless downtime (a/k/a TV/internet) into my day, rather than viewing flopping into my recliner in the evening as yet another example of what a failure I am at time management.  And giving myself brain-free and demand-free time on a regular basis helped me focus more on the stuff I needed to get done the rest of the time.  (Still not perfect, of course, but it did make a noticeable difference). (More recently, I have also noticed a real compulsion to read trash fiction with zero redeeming value; my operative theory is that since Covid cut off my ability to escape to interesting places in real life, I have been meeting that need by escaping to interesting fictional places.)

Finally, make a point of looking at the positives that come along with procrastination, and your personality in general.  My stepmom says that her procrastination makes her the most efficient woman on the planet, because she will throw herself into items 2-173 on her to-do list, simply so she can avoid doing the thing she dreads the most.  I am wicked smart + ADD, which means that forcing myself to focus on boring stuff is like trying to force the north poles of two magnets together.  OTOH, when I do get going, I get hyperfocused and get a metric shit-ton of really good stuff done much faster than most people.  This won't help "fix" the procrastination, of course.  But a more balanced view of yourself can really really help with the depression and anxiety that often goes along with it. 

Good luck.  I feel your pain. 

Omy

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Re: More torture therapy? Psychologist? Next Step!?
« Reply #14 on: March 03, 2022, 11:53:57 AM »
I'm a world class procrastinator. A piece of advice that has helped me is to do the most unpleasant task on my To Do list first. I'm most alert/productive in the morning, and crossing the worst thing off my list gives me a minor victory...and then I can decide if I want to tackle the next worst thing using the little adrenaline rush from my first "win".

Another trick to talk myself into doing something unpleasant is to give myself a time limit. I tell myself I'm only going to work on this for 30 minutes. If I manage to get into a rhythm, I go with the flow for as long as I can. But if I can't achieve that feeling of "flow" in 30 minutes, I stop and switch gears to something more pleasant. YMMV...

Gray Matter

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Re: More torture therapy? Psychologist? Next Step!?
« Reply #15 on: March 03, 2022, 12:24:33 PM »
Paging @Gray Matter

Here I am!  Although you've gotten good input, so mostly I'm here to say "what they said." 

I say ditch that therapist and find another and pay out of pocket if you need to.  Totally worth it.  But know that it might take you a few times to find a therapist of good fit.  When I was last therapist shopping, I probably read the profiles of 50 therapists, narrowed it down to four, and had an initial session with each of them.  And ultimately didn't love any of them, so I tried again.  (I want to validate that intake sessions suck, the way they are structured and with their seventy billion questions, but hang in there.)

I think you are going to run into a couple of potential issues.  One, many therapists are head-tiltingly nice, and that probably won't work well with you.  It night make you want to hit them.  Two, you are really fucking smart, and you need a therapist who is as smart as you.  Someone who can call you on your shit, be snarky and sarcastic, appreciate your humor, but who can also see your squishy interior.  That is not going to be just any random therapist.

I imagine that manualized treatments (e.g., CBT) wouldn't work well for you, because you're smart enough to have tried most of those things, and because your brain will not be easily tricked into compliance and will find an end-run around most things you try.  I also think that you will likely avoid going deep and being vulnerable, at the same time will be frustrated by and dismissive of shallower therapy.  In other words, you are a really challenging client, but would be oh-so-fun for the right therapist.

ixtap

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Re: More torture therapy? Psychologist? Next Step!?
« Reply #16 on: March 03, 2022, 12:41:51 PM »
I have a just three process to try to start. Just fold three pieces of laundry or wash three dishes and you can come back later to finish. Some days, that really is all that happens each time. But for whatever reason, I can 95% of the time convince myself to at least do three: grade three papers, read for three minutes, etc.

BlueHouse

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Re: More torture therapy? Psychologist? Next Step!?
« Reply #17 on: March 03, 2022, 12:48:08 PM »
I'm with the others when I say find another therapist.  Or you could try your confrontational skills, and tell your therapist exactly what you don't like so far.  Being distracted is a no-go for me and I would NEVER be able to get over that.  But sometimes when you tell someone something like that, they step up.  Also, if the therapist wasn't in front of her computer, I'd immediately say "why don't we make an appointment for a time when you can be present and working." Because that was completely unacceptable! 

I'm also a procrastinator.  Something that hit home with me was when I attended a writing workshop and the facilitator talked about writer's block and said it's really not a "block", but simply a fear of being judged.  That hit home because I think my procrastination in all areas of my life flow back to fear of failure. So I think that's where the "just get started" part comes from, but also why many people cannot "simply start". 


Glenstache

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Re: More torture therapy? Psychologist? Next Step!?
« Reply #18 on: March 03, 2022, 01:16:26 PM »
+1 find a new therapist. I would recommend a trained psychologist who deals with adults for their practice. The first sessions will be asking you baseline questions. The work and dealing with the specifics will follow that. There is a fair amount of variation even within the same technique (CBT, for example). I ended up with a therapist who is a trained MD psychiatrist who also does CBT and related therapies. She is very clinical and we have discussions about how the brain works, and the stimulus-response loops and how a therapy or other chosen approach is intended to work. This might not work best for everyone (I like to know how the sausage is made), but it works well for me. I suspect they would have been a good match for you too if you were still in Seattle and they were actually taking new patients. I've been with them through many different health care plans some of which covered her in-network and some of which did not. I have considered paying out of pocket completely worth it when out of network.

Having one person manage both therapy and meds is super-valuable but also a bit of a unicorn setup and very hard to find (I lucked into it). If possible, find a psychologist who works closely with the person managing meds so that those two things work in tandem. My meds have changed over time. For my particular set of issues, I expect to take them indefinitely. Such is life. It's a weird irony that when mental health and meds are working right, you just feel normal and wonder "I feel fine, so why am I taking meds." That's when you know the program is working.

BicycleB

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Re: More torture therapy? Psychologist? Next Step!?
« Reply #19 on: March 03, 2022, 01:33:32 PM »
Posting to learn. Admiring your boldness in going for it.

Sailor Sam

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Re: More torture therapy? Psychologist? Next Step!?
« Reply #20 on: March 04, 2022, 10:53:48 AM »
Thanks for the replies, everyone. I've signed myself up for a 3 month subscription to Betterhelp. We'll see how it goes. 

wenchsenior

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Re: More torture therapy? Psychologist? Next Step!?
« Reply #21 on: March 05, 2022, 08:13:19 AM »
I'm a world class procrastinator. A piece of advice that has helped me is to do the most unpleasant task on my To Do list first. I'm most alert/productive in the morning, and crossing the worst thing off my list gives me a minor victory...and then I can decide if I want to tackle the next worst thing using the little adrenaline rush from my first "win".

Another trick to talk myself into doing something unpleasant is to give myself a time limit. I tell myself I'm only going to work on this for 30 minutes. If I manage to get into a rhythm, I go with the flow for as long as I can. But if I can't achieve that feeling of "flow" in 30 minutes, I stop and switch gears to something more pleasant. YMMV...

Another master procrastinator here, and I agree with this.  I simply had to get decent at managing it b/c I work from home on self-imposed rolling deadlines. What I found was that I had to break everything down to the smallest possible 'bite' to get my brain past the resistance of starting.  If I don't want to work (and I rarely do LOL), I always say, "all you have to do is edit this next section" or "all you have to do is 10 minutes of this".  Nine times out of ten, that gets me going and then I keep on going.

Allie

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Re: More torture therapy? Psychologist? Next Step!?
« Reply #22 on: March 05, 2022, 11:13:42 AM »
Hi!  I hope better help works for you. 

Just to clarify though, an lcsw, as opposed to just a licensed social worker, generally has a couple years of training in clinical therapy and then another few in practicing under a clinician.  Where I work, the professional counselors, clinical social workers, and marriage and family therapists all do the same thing, which is therapy.  There are other social worker specialities like medical social worker, but the clinical ones are usually trained in some traditional form of therapy, like CBT.

Therapists are a weird bunch and you really need to find one to you click with.  When you do, it’s likely that having someone who knows your anxiety, fears, and struggle to commit to a task and can ask about how you are doing with things you’ve previously stated you need to do will help make a difference in your willingness to try some of the CBT/hacks.  I don’t know why it works better than having someone who isn’t aware of your internal stuff like a boss or someone who is aware but who you have a reciprocal relationship with like a friend, or just self accountability, but having that personal relationship that’s totally one sided makes a difference. 

I mean, if you use the hack that you just start something and see how it goes and commit to reading a paragraph or running for 1 minute or shoveling a single scoop of snow, and you do that one little thing you can’t tell your boss and your friends will probably think you’re insane.  “Guess what!  I did what we talked about!  I sat down and read a sentence!” is worth celebrating for someone who procrastinates, but isn’t likely appreciated by the general populace.  The funny part is that we (therapists) genuinely care and get excited.  My own bio kids get no credit for doing things like brushing their teeth and getting out of bed, but when I have a depressed client who does those things I get so happy!  I’d even come home and brag about how awesome my work kids are doing (in general terms of course). 

I wish you luck in finding someone you click with and who can help you overcome the lingering effects of anxiety!

mistymoney

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Re: More torture therapy? Psychologist? Next Step!?
« Reply #23 on: March 05, 2022, 05:47:38 PM »
maybe file a complaint on this "distracted" therapist. can't even mute? omg.

use2betrix

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Re: More torture therapy? Psychologist? Next Step!?
« Reply #24 on: March 06, 2022, 05:33:43 PM »
While not necessarily targeted to procrastination, but towards good mental health I’d ask the following…
1. What’s your diet like?
2. How’s your sleep? How much do you get?
3. Are you exercising? What type and how much?
4. How much (if any) alcohol do you drink?
5. Have you meditated, or considered it?


I have bad anxiety (I get prescribed meds) and while it’s still a terrible impact on my life, having the above items in check make a really significant improvement.

Poundwise

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Re: More torture therapy? Psychologist? Next Step!?
« Reply #25 on: March 06, 2022, 06:43:05 PM »
I cannot help on choosing a therapist, but something that worked well for me in battling procrastination was making a daily To Do list, then emailing it to a good friend who would send me her list.  Over the day, I would cut the finished items and append them to a long file which I called "Done Stuff". This was satisfying, plus if there was info that I needed later I could always refer back to that file.  Then I would send the list for the next day that evening to my friend, sometimes with a short summary of what I got done or where I was having trouble.

Thinking out the list and having accountability was good for us both and we were able to accomplish a lot during this time.

This might be a helpful stopgap until you find a good therapist. 
« Last Edit: March 07, 2022, 09:38:16 AM by Poundwise »

FLBiker

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Re: More torture therapy? Psychologist? Next Step!?
« Reply #26 on: March 07, 2022, 07:22:36 AM »
First, although it didn't really impact my procrastination, I found that meditation really helped with my depression and anxiety.  I joined a group that was local to me (at the time) which helped in terms of both providing structure and instruction.  My group was Buddhist (an amalgam of Zen, Mahamudra and Dzogchen) but there are plenty of secular options as well if that's a turnoff.

Another thing that might be helpful -- I find keeping track of stuff in a way that I trust (I use Trello) to be very helpful.  Until about 5 years ago, I just used my brain to keep track of everything, and that definitely contributed to my stress / anxiety.  Now, I keep basically nothing in my brain and just have a series of work and non-work to do lists that I update as needed.  My approach is roughly similar to the approach presented in Getting Things Done.

Finally, I wanted to share my own experience with procrastination.  I was always an extreme procrastinator -- from early school through my late twenties in grad school.  I was a "good" procrastinator in the sense that I pretty much always got stuff done on time -- it was just always at the last minute and typically involved pulling all-nighters.  Then, right at the end of grad school, I got sober.  I can't say exactly how quickly it happened (those first few months are a blur) but all of a sudden I was the complete opposite.  If something needs to be done, I just do it.  It's not a struggle.  If anything, it's a struggle for me to leave things undone.  I have no idea why this is.  And, to be clear, I was a procrastinator long before I started drinking / using drugs, so it wasn't caused by my intoxication.  Honestly, I find it kind of wild -- I still (15 years and counting) kind of think of myself as a procrastinator but my wife (who I met when I was 2 years sober) sees me as a total getting things done guy.

Sorry that this isn't helpful, as I have no insight into why that switch got flipped.  I'm kind of curious if anyone else has had a similar experience, though.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2022, 12:41:49 PM by FLBiker »

seemsright

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Re: More torture therapy? Psychologist? Next Step!?
« Reply #27 on: March 07, 2022, 10:06:43 AM »
I have tried quite a few types of therapists. I have never been able to find one that can help me. I always feel like I have to spend weeks and weeks (and in turn money) to get them to even start to understand where I am at.

I have had better luck with meditation, journaling and google.

But I am finding that when life is out of balance I can get into a deep dark hole fast. I have to catch the spinning to stop it. I cannot allow myself to get behind on anything if I do then I get overwhelmed and perfection starts to creep in. Once perfection creeps in the procrastination is at a all time high.

For me it is not procrastination it is perfection. Everything needs to be perfect and if I cannot make it perfect I feel like I can just run in circles and when that happens I throw up my hands and will do everything I can to not get to that thing that I want a way but I cannot make it perfect. It is hard.

Maybe just me typing out what I deal with that you can think about what you are dealing with.


Good luck.

GreenToTheCore

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Re: More torture therapy? Psychologist? Next Step!?
« Reply #28 on: March 09, 2022, 04:39:51 PM »
Yep yep yep. Add me to the list of "What they said".
- Had been a "successful" procrastinator since elementary school
- Definitely a Fear of Failure type
- Recently been promoted to overwhelming anxiety and why-can't-I-do-this-simple-thing-that's-not-that-hard
- Started seeing a therapist. Yours sounds like the opposite of helpful and is not what I've experienced once I found a good one. My guy started with some awareness suggestions and then switched to tangible tools/actions to kick out of it.
- He also recognized that my issue wasn't work itself but this family conflict thing that was building.


Also, have you read this before? Funny and accurate for me. Not a source for a solution but made me feel less like a weirdo. The dark playground is real.
https://waitbutwhy.com/2013/10/why-procrastinators-procrastinate.html

CrustyBadger

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Re: More torture therapy? Psychologist? Next Step!?
« Reply #29 on: March 09, 2022, 07:32:55 PM »
Is there a chance you could have undiagnosed ADHD?

I was recently diagnosed (at midlife) although I have had symptoms all my life; it's just I was able to manage them OK.  Procrastination can be a common trait for people with ADHD.  I recently started medication for ADHD and notice my procrastination has lessened considerably.  Simple stuff like doing basic housework is getting done; complex stuff like taxes and financial matters, making that call to the lawyer, calling a government office to clear up incorrect data -- whatever it is, I'm just getting it done a lot more easily.

Sailor Sam

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Re: More torture therapy? Psychologist? Next Step!?
« Reply #30 on: March 10, 2022, 07:20:34 AM »
UPDATE: I've been matched with a PHD LCD at Betterhelp, and I've made an appt for a video session. Thanks for all the replies, and the hacks. They won't work for me, but it's always informative to see whats' been working for other people out in radio land.




@CrustyBadger, I've also wondered if I have some undiagnosed attention disorder. I'll ask my new therapist, but based on my research I probably don't have ADHD. Historically I don't have issues focusing, or completing stuff. I think I'm just anxious and the highest symptoms are about work.

@use2betrix, thanks for your list of lifestyle stuff. I'm happy to report that I've checked most of those boxes. Diet, exercise, sleep, meditation; all good. I've taken care of the baseline stuff, and I definitely noticed it helped some of the mental stuff. Unfortunately, the physical stuff didn't mitigate the mental stuff all the way back to 'sane.' Alas.

CrustyBadger

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Re: More torture therapy? Psychologist? Next Step!?
« Reply #31 on: March 10, 2022, 04:12:39 PM »
Have you seen this TED talk on procrastination?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=arj7oStGLkU

former player

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Re: More torture therapy? Psychologist? Next Step!?
« Reply #32 on: March 11, 2022, 05:41:42 AM »
Have you seen this TED talk on procrastination?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=arj7oStGLkU
ooh, I'll think about checking that out later.

GreenToTheCore

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Re: More torture therapy? Psychologist? Next Step!?
« Reply #33 on: March 11, 2022, 04:56:07 PM »
Have you seen this TED talk on procrastination?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=arj7oStGLkU
ooh, I'll think about checking that out later.

That's the video version of his blog post. He's got some great stuff on the website. :)

Also, have you read this before? Funny and accurate for me. Not a source for a solution but made me feel less like a weirdo. The dark playground is real.
https://waitbutwhy.com/2013/10/why-procrastinators-procrastinate.html

iluvzbeach

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Re: More torture therapy? Psychologist? Next Step!?
« Reply #34 on: March 11, 2022, 07:02:54 PM »
Have you seen this TED talk on procrastination?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=arj7oStGLkU
ooh, I'll think about checking that out later.
Haha…I see what you did there @former player   

@GreenToTheCore, excellent post. Thanks so much for sharing it. I might also check out his TED Talk…later, of course.

Dicey

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Re: More torture therapy? Psychologist? Next Step!?
« Reply #35 on: March 14, 2022, 05:36:59 AM »
Dear God in heaven, I think I have found my tribe. Or is this a sub-tribe? Either way, I'm in...eventually.

Jtrey17

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Re: More torture therapy? Psychologist? Next Step!?
« Reply #36 on: March 14, 2022, 09:23:03 AM »
I had anxiety about dozen years ago when I was going through a divorce. Pretty debilitating. Affected driving, socialization, public fears, etc. the first two counselors (guessing not psychologist since through a free benefit at work) didn’t work. I didn’t feel comfortable telling them my problems and wasn’t confident about their suggestions. So I knuckled through life until I went to a third counselor. She was life changing. I felt the weight off my shoulders from the first visit. I went to see her 5 times and she changed my life. I don’t suffer from any anxiety anymore. I can’t believe I can say that knowing what a hold it had on my life for so long. My advice to you is to keep trying until you find what works for you. And best of luck ❤️

JAYSLOL

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Re: More torture therapy? Psychologist? Next Step!?
« Reply #37 on: March 14, 2022, 09:55:59 AM »
I have a hard time with procrastinating as well, although my main problem is definitely more to do with attention regulation rather than strictly procrastinating.  My brain does love to come up with clever/not-so-clever reasons for me not to do things right this minute though.  It’s always telling me I can put something off because “insert every excuse in the world”.  Anyway, I should be working.  I hope the new person is much better for you, and I really admire your humour and openness, it’s a great sign that you are absolutely not broken, you just need the right path forward.  Im looking forward to hearing how things go for you.  Oh yeah, back to work. 



SunnyDays

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Re: More torture therapy? Psychologist? Next Step!?
« Reply #38 on: March 14, 2022, 11:11:56 AM »
I'll make a comment that may or may not be helpful, but I'll say it anyway. 

In North American culture, we have a work, work, work ethic.  Unless you have a mile long to-do list, you're not busy enough to be productive/valuable.  We cram our lives with things to do, get exhausted by it all, stall and delay, then feel guilty.  Bosses are only too happy to have busy employees, even if they aren't really achieving much.  In the work from home culture, it's even worse, because there's no clear delineation between work and personal time. 

So if you look at what's not getting done, the important question is what are the consequences?  Often the answer is none or very few.  We just think it has to/should be done.  But if it doesn't, nothing happens except that we feel stressed because of our beliefs about it.

When I was working, and even now that I'm retired, I've set myself 3 things to do each day.  Only 3.  That way, the truly important things get done.  If I have time/energy to do more then I do.  Because I'm not stressing about doing 10 things. sometimes I get 10 things done.  Or 8 or 4.  But usually 3.  If I don't get 3 done, I just reprioritize the next day. Reducing expectations is more successful than longer lists.

eyesonthehorizon

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Re: More torture therapy? Psychologist? Next Step!?
« Reply #39 on: March 15, 2022, 01:01:53 AM »
To be fair to her, I had difficulty clearly articulating my problem.  But instead of digging in to that, she assumed she knew my problem. ...

I actually felt almost insulted by the whole thing because it was so basic.  Maybe that's not fair.  But ...  I've thought through this shit a lot. Thinking through shit too much is like... my thing.   Heck, thinking through shit too much is half the reason I need therapy.  I've tried the basics. ...

... Some of them feel icky to articulate, like, "look, I have a Mensa-level IQ, so I need someone genuinely smart, and who recognizes that I'm smart, too, and won't patronize me or assume she understands my very complex problems after 10 minutes".  But I think if I do try again, I'll just suck it up and tell them my list during any intake, even if it makes me sound like an asshole.  Even if they don't tell me outright that they aren't a match, I think their responses would be telling.  So maybe consider something along those lines. ...

***I don't even drink coffee and while that's not the point, it felt like just another way she was showing she had no idea who I was, what my problem was, or how to start fixing it.
Are you me?? I just had this experience (...again) & it’s so disheartening. (Love coffee but parallel irrelevant recommendations ... which the practitioner would have known were respectively redundant & inapplicable had they been listening the previous sessions.)

The intellect thing is painful. I need someone who can out-think me, & doesn’t need to simplify my world to their level or that of some imagined hysterical ladypatient; instead most the pros I’ve seen respond to my magical aura of safe disclosure to start talking about their own stories, struggles, bemusements, other patients, sometimes (often early on) with a thin veneer of didactic intent but in at least one case because “I’m really smart.” This last one sent me off the session feeling worse than I went in (which was the lowest/ most in-crisis I’d been in fifteen years) - at one point they even tried telling me to look on the bright side in regard to my having a “great” relationship with a relative who has lately been showering me with unasked-for favors... as part of a decades-long cycle of abuse!!

More generally to the thread-
ADD is common in these parts. Something about being inclined to passionate hyperfocus seems to work well for frugal optimizers. With that often comes The Impossible Thing(s), which we put off until the last possible point before a deadline, simply because the greater discomfort of panic exceeds a disinhibition threshold not met by the lesser discomfort of boredom.

One theory I’ve seen kicked around is that in ADD patients stimulants have counterintuitive results; they disinhibit us from Impossible Things & frequently relax us or put us to sleep. I’d be curious how many here experience the same.

Moonwaves

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Re: More torture therapy? Psychologist? Next Step!?
« Reply #40 on: March 15, 2022, 02:47:31 AM »
I'm currently listening to the ologies podcast about ADHD and it's very informative.

Part 1: Attention-Deficit Neuropsychology (ADHD) with Russell Barkley
https://www.alieward.com/ologies/adhd

Part 2: Attention-Deficit Neuropsychology (ADHD) with How to ADHD, Black Girl Lost Keys, Jahla Osborne + more
https://www.alieward.com/ologies/adhd2

I'm trying not to self-diagnose, and I don't really think I've had undiagnosed ADHD for decades but my therapist mentioned last week that I definitely show some signs of what used to be called ADD. The podcast I'm listening to mentioned something about menopause-related ADHD (have to listen again to make sure what the actual point is) and that is a possibility for me. It's all quite fascinating really.

On the original topic, I was really lucky to find a great match for me in my first therapist. I've had less pleasant experiences since then, including one terrible one who, among other things, gave out to me for not warning him in advance that I had a big family because he would have used a bigger piece of paper. That was definitely one of those experiences where I left feeling far worse than I had at the start of the appointment. Anyway, it's really important to find a decent fit. Hope the new attempt works out better for you, Sam.

Sailor Sam

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Re: More torture therapy? Psychologist? Next Step!?
« Reply #41 on: March 15, 2022, 10:34:51 AM »
Good morning all you funky kids. Here’s an UPDATE: I had my first session of video therapy on Betterhelp. The provider lists her credentials as PhD and Licensed Professional Counselor.

More importantly she seems like a good fit. I told her I prefer not to experience emotions, and she gave me the kind of Look that I respond to with a shivering desire to prostrate myself before my better.  I can tell she’s going to terrify me into a better mental framing of myself. So that’s nice.

mm1970

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Re: More torture therapy? Psychologist? Next Step!?
« Reply #42 on: March 15, 2022, 10:37:11 AM »
Quote
The podcast I'm listening to mentioned something about menopause-related ADHD (have to listen again to make sure what the actual point is) and that is a possibility for me. It's all quite fascinating really.

I would love to know what the actual point is...because I am feeling this now.

SailingOnASmallSailboat

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Re: More torture therapy? Psychologist? Next Step!?
« Reply #43 on: March 15, 2022, 11:08:26 AM »
Good morning all you funky kids. Here’s an UPDATE: I had my first session of video therapy on Betterhelp. The provider lists her credentials as PhD and Licensed Professional Counselor.

More importantly she seems like a good fit. I told her I prefer not to experience emotions, and she gave me the kind of Look that I respond to with a shivering desire to prostrate myself before my better.  I can tell she’s going to terrify me into a better mental framing of myself. So that’s nice.

Glad to hear this. Fingers crossed it continues.

LifeHappens

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Re: More torture therapy? Psychologist? Next Step!?
« Reply #44 on: March 15, 2022, 11:35:23 AM »
I told her I prefer not to experience emotions, and she gave me the kind of Look that I respond to with a shivering desire to prostrate myself before my better.
Sounds perfect. You might cry. It's horrible and embarrassing but counselors see it all the time.

Glenstache

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Re: More torture therapy? Psychologist? Next Step!?
« Reply #45 on: March 15, 2022, 12:36:29 PM »
Good morning all you funky kids. Here’s an UPDATE: I had my first session of video therapy on Betterhelp. The provider lists her credentials as PhD and Licensed Professional Counselor.

More importantly she seems like a good fit. I told her I prefer not to experience emotions, and she gave me the kind of Look that I respond to with a shivering desire to prostrate myself before my better. I can tell she’s going to terrify me into a better mental framing of myself. So that’s nice.
Good! Some tough (professional) love is a good thing.

Sailor Sam

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Re: More torture therapy? Psychologist? Next Step!?
« Reply #46 on: March 15, 2022, 02:07:11 PM »
I told her I prefer not to experience emotions, and she gave me the kind of Look that I respond to with a shivering desire to prostrate myself before my better.
Sounds perfect. You might cry. It's horrible and embarrassing but counselors see it all the time.

Sir! You go too far.

Ladychips

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Re: More torture therapy? Psychologist? Next Step!?
« Reply #47 on: March 15, 2022, 02:25:20 PM »
Good morning all you funky kids. Here’s an UPDATE: I had my first session of video therapy on Betterhelp. The provider lists her credentials as PhD and Licensed Professional Counselor.

More importantly she seems like a good fit. I told her I prefer not to experience emotions, and she gave me the kind of Look that I respond to with a shivering desire to prostrate myself before my better.  I can tell she’s going to terrify me into a better mental framing of myself. So that’s nice.

This is excellent news!!

Last time I went to see my counselor, I bawled my head off because I was SO pissed off.  The first thing he did was help me stop that and then we worked on my issue. Crying is shit most of the time...

So happy you found a fit!!


monarda

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Re: More torture therapy? Psychologist? Next Step!?
« Reply #48 on: March 15, 2022, 03:33:33 PM »
PTF.
Thanks to this thread I looked up Betterhelp, and then was directed to Regain (because my issue is really a couples issue).  Waiting to be matched to a therapist. I have compassion fatigue. My partner is a stress case. Irrational.

eyesonthehorizon

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Re: More torture therapy? Psychologist? Next Step!?
« Reply #49 on: March 15, 2022, 11:07:08 PM »
... I can tell she’s going to terrify me into a better mental framing of myself. So that’s nice.
Congratulations! The best clinician I ever knew (sadly not my practitioner but instructor) was like this. Think of the emotions as facepunches for your brain....