Author Topic: MMM is Canadian?  (Read 11960 times)

iris lily

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3185
MMM is Canadian?
« on: August 22, 2014, 09:48:14 AM »
Someone please clear this up for me--is MMM Canadian? Somehow I go t that idea. Does he still live in Canada?

Kriegsspiel

  • Guest
Re: MMM is Canadian?
« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2014, 09:50:07 AM »
Yea, he's a Canadian who lives in Colorado. They're pretty central parts of a lot of his blog posts...

BTW, you should really bone up on your iStalking skills.

solon

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1517
  • Age: 1818
  • Location: CO
Re: MMM is Canadian?
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2014, 09:50:46 AM »
He's from Hamilton, ON, but lives in Longmont, CO..

Basenji

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1022
  • Location: D.C.-ish
Re: MMM is Canadian?
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2014, 09:50:57 AM »
Have you read the blog? Or do you have a ninja dry sense of humor?

iris lily

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3185
Re: MMM is Canadian?
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2014, 09:59:10 AM »
Have you read the blog? Or do you have a ninja dry sense of humor?

No, I don't read the blog. Seriously. I am old, I don't need all of that stuff, I've lived it for decades. Not kidding here.

I like the interaction of the forums.

I like having all of these Canadians around here on the forums. So I won't ask why the MMM leader ended up in the U.S. when he had access to Canadian healthcare where one presumably can retire much earlier. I will have to wade through craploads of text, I suppose, to find that out. No one will take pity on me and give me a pithy summary of that issue.

Ok, it is off to the blog I go...I'm going now....here I go...[if anyone wants to top me and just tell me the answer to my question, it would be nice and would save me a loooooong hike.]

Cromacster

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1696
  • Location: Minnesnowta
Re: MMM is Canadian?
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2014, 10:04:08 AM »
Isn't O'Canada the background music on his blog?

So I won't ask why the MMM leader ended up in the U.S. when he had access to Canadian healthcare where one presumably can retire much earlier.  I will have to wade through craploads of text, I suppose, to find that out. No one will take pity on me and give me a pithy summary of that issue.


In one of his posts he stated that the US gave him a better opportunity for FIRE due to lower taxes, lower cost of living, and greater availability of jobs in his sector.  I don't remember which one.  If you want to find it consider it your penance for not reading in the first place :)

Updated for clarity
« Last Edit: August 22, 2014, 10:15:35 AM by Cromacster »

dragoncar

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8466
  • Registered member
Re: MMM is Canadian?
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2014, 10:16:01 AM »
Have you read the blog? Or do you have a ninja dry sense of humor?

Are ninjas, like, really dry?

Tetsuya Hondo

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 503
  • Location: 1960's Tokyo on the Bad Side of Town
Re: MMM is Canadian?
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2014, 10:21:49 AM »
Like most sensible Americans, he's Canadian.

Basenji

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1022
  • Location: D.C.-ish
Re: MMM is Canadian?
« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2014, 10:24:01 AM »
Have you read the blog? Or do you have a ninja dry sense of humor?

Are ninjas, like, really dry?

Stealthy and always longing for a beverage.

iampatriciag

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 23
  • Location: Gig Harbor, WA
Re: MMM is Canadian?
« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2014, 10:30:00 AM »
I thought he was both, now! 

He did explain that when he and his wife relocated in 2005/6 (?), job prospects were really great in both places, but salaries and COL were way better in Colorado than Toronto, plus he felt housing and investment returns were much more promising in the States despite the healthcare benefits in Canada. 

Basenji

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1022
  • Location: D.C.-ish
Re: MMM is Canadian?
« Reply #10 on: August 22, 2014, 10:30:52 AM »
Have you read the blog? Or do you have a ninja dry sense of humor?

No, I don't read the blog. Seriously. I am old, I don't need all of that stuff, I've lived it for decades. Not kidding here.

I was messing with you. He sweats maple syrup and shits poutine. But he shacks up his money and his immediate family in the US of A.

ETA: I should have added a winky face. It never occurred to me that one might skip the blog! And because he mentions Canada and where he lives A LOT, I thought it was an inside joke you were making, like how dumb Americans act all shocked to find out a famous actor or artist is, gasp, Canadian! In short, I'm sorry.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2014, 10:52:28 AM by Basenji »

Meggslynn

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 251
Re: MMM is Canadian?
« Reply #11 on: August 22, 2014, 10:47:55 AM »
Like most sensible Americans, he's Canadian.

Too funny

dragoncar

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8466
  • Registered member
Re: MMM is Canadian?
« Reply #12 on: August 22, 2014, 11:09:40 AM »

I was messing with you.

Dude, you have a samurai-dry sense of humor.

Iron Mike Sharpe

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 397
Re: MMM is Canadian?
« Reply #13 on: August 22, 2014, 11:20:21 AM »
Mr. Money Hoser

Nords

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3171
  • Age: 58
  • Location: Oahu
    • Military Retirement & Financial Independence blog
Re: MMM is Canadian?
« Reply #14 on: August 22, 2014, 10:38:34 PM »
He did explain that when he and his wife relocated in 2005/6 (?), job prospects were really great in both places, but salaries and COL were way better in Colorado than Toronto, plus he felt housing and investment returns were much more promising in the States despite the healthcare benefits in Canada.
Oh please.  I think they felt that the Colorado winters would be a lot warmer & dryer than the Canadian ones.

My daughter roomed with a Canadian during her college years in Houston.  That woman's winter stories literally gave me chills.

wtjbatman

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1313
  • Age: 35
  • Location: Missouri
Re: MMM is Canadian?
« Reply #15 on: August 23, 2014, 08:02:48 AM »
Remember when the Canadians bombed the Baldwins?

SnackDog

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1284
  • Location: Latin America
Re: MMM is Canadian?
« Reply #16 on: August 23, 2014, 08:06:39 AM »
Canadians are widely known for being cheap frugal so one would nearly predict he is Canadian.  His blog would strike most Canadians as common sense.

nereo

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 10193
  • Location: la belle province
    • Here's how you can support science today:
Re: MMM is Canadian?
« Reply #17 on: August 23, 2014, 08:34:50 AM »
Canadians are widely known for being cheap frugal so one would nearly predict he is Canadian.  His blog would strike most Canadians as common sense.
Whaaaaa...????  I live in Canada now and I grew up in the US.  Every day I'm surrounded by the same sort of clown-car driving McMansion-living consumer types that were so common in California, New England and Washington DC.  I've gotten the same strange looks here in Canada whenever I mention being FI/FIRE before I'm 50.

I see no evidence that Canadian's are more frugal than their US counterparts, and there's data to back that up - there's been a lot of press here lately about how Canadian household debt-to-income levels have exceeded their US counterparts.

iampatriciag

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 23
  • Location: Gig Harbor, WA
Re: MMM is Canadian?
« Reply #18 on: August 23, 2014, 09:38:05 AM »

Oh please.  I think they felt that the Colorado winters would be a lot warmer & dryer than the Canadian ones.


Whatever.  He brags about having biked through Ottawa and Hamilton winters all the time.  I hardly think the weather was his primary motivation. 

Although I wouldn't blame him if it factored in.  My father's driveway snowbanks (in Ottawa) were more than 6' tall and lingered on his lawn through most of April.  I definitely don't miss that!

desk_jockey

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 237
Re: MMM is Canadian?
« Reply #19 on: August 23, 2014, 09:50:23 AM »
Hamilton winters?  When Hamiltonites want to experience winter, they head south the Buffalo.

vern

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 572
Re: MMM is Canadian?
« Reply #20 on: August 23, 2014, 02:54:00 PM »
Say it properly..."He's Canadian eh."

dividendman

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1127
  • Age: 36
Re: MMM is Canadian?
« Reply #21 on: August 24, 2014, 12:15:15 AM »
Isn't O'Canada the background music on his blog?

So I won't ask why the MMM leader ended up in the U.S. when he had access to Canadian healthcare where one presumably can retire much earlier.  I will have to wade through craploads of text, I suppose, to find that out. No one will take pity on me and give me a pithy summary of that issue.


In one of his posts he stated that the US gave him a better opportunity for FIRE due to lower taxes, lower cost of living, and greater availability of jobs in his sector.  I don't remember which one.  If you want to find it consider it your penance for not reading in the first place :)

Updated for clarity

Yeah, I'm also a Canadian working here (stealing American jobs as some people like to call it - yet they recruited me all the way from Toronto, weird). If you're in tech, Silicon Valley has way higher salaries even if you factor in the cost of living and even more so if you're not an idiot spending 3k/mo on a single room condo in SF.

Gerard

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1360
  • Location: eastern canada
Re: MMM is Canadian?
« Reply #22 on: August 24, 2014, 05:45:31 PM »
I see no evidence that Canadians are more frugal than their US counterparts, and there's data to back that up - there's been a lot of press here lately about how Canadian household debt-to-income levels have exceeded their US counterparts.
I agree that there are plenty of spendthrift Canadians (especially in money-hose places like Fort Mac), but there's also some evidence that Canadians tend to the cheap... you might enjoy Michael Adams' _Fire and Ice_ for a sociological look at that (and a bunch of other stuff). Or if you really want an earful about cheap Canadians, talk to some waitresses in Florida. :-)
wrt debt-to-income, a lot of that's just because we can, right now... credit didn't dry up in Canada post-recession, the way it did in the US, and our continuing high housing prices make it easier for people to borrow against their homes.

clarkm04

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 182
Re: MMM is Canadian?
« Reply #23 on: August 24, 2014, 06:06:34 PM »
In one of the Podcast interviews the interviewer asked why the move from Canada to the US.

His response was that the IT jobs in America were paying so much better that the jump over the boundary was impossible to ignore at the time he did it.  He went into some details on some of the cities he visited; felt Boulder had the best biking, personal, and professional opportunities for him.

nereo

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 10193
  • Location: la belle province
    • Here's how you can support science today:
Re: MMM is Canadian?
« Reply #24 on: August 25, 2014, 07:56:15 AM »
I see no evidence that Canadians are more frugal than their US counterparts, and there's data to back that up - there's been a lot of press here lately about how Canadian household debt-to-income levels have exceeded their US counterparts.
I agree that there are plenty of spendthrift Canadians (especially in money-hose places like Fort Mac), but there's also some evidence that Canadians tend to the cheap... you might enjoy Michael Adams' _Fire and Ice_ for a sociological look at that (and a bunch of other stuff). Or if you really want an earful about cheap Canadians, talk to some waitresses in Florida. :-)
wrt debt-to-income, a lot of that's just because we can, right now... credit didn't dry up in Canada post-recession, the way it did in the US, and our continuing high housing prices make it easier for people to borrow against their homes.

I'll try to read a copy of Fire and Ice as soon as I can get ahold of it in english. If nothing else it's good to read things that are contrarian to your own thinking, which at the moment is that Canada and the US are about as similar as two countries can be, with some minor differences.

Regarding your reply about Debt-to-income, your response makes no sense to me.  How can "because we can [buy things on credit]" be used to defend the frugality of Canadians?  Whether someone can buy something on credit is irrelevant - if someone is buying on credit, and extended credit exceeds annual income... in my book that's the opposite of frugal.  Availability of credit has nothing to do with it.
Also, you can compare the debt-to-income levels in Canada today to those from the US in 2007. Availability of credit wasn't a problem then.

Another metric I find useful for comparing frugality is the savings rate - and currently both the US and Canada sit at around 5%.  Currently Canada sits at 4.9%* and the US at 5.3%†)
If we are talking about frugality as the ability to spend less than one earns, then on average I can't find any statistical difference between the two countries in the last decade.

*source: Statistics Canada (http://www.statcan.gc.ca/tables-tableaux/sum-som/l01/cst01/indi02a-eng.htm)
†source: US Federal Reserve Economic Research (FRED): (http://www.statcan.gc.ca/tables-tableaux/sum-som/l01/cst01/indi02a-eng.htm)


Spartana

  • Guest
Re: MMM is Canadian?
« Reply #25 on: August 25, 2014, 08:33:08 AM »

Oh please.  I think they felt that the Colorado winters would be a lot warmer & dryer than the Canadian ones.

 

Although I wouldn't blame him if it factored in.  My father's driveway snowbanks (in Ottawa) were more than 6' tall and lingered on his lawn through most of April.  I definitely don't miss that!
I use to live in Holtyre Ontario as a kid (huge metropolis - dare anyone to find it on a paper map) and we moved to Alaska to get out of the snow and cold there :-)!

nawhite

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1057
  • Location: An RV somewhere in the West
    • The Reckless Choice
Re: MMM is Canadian?
« Reply #26 on: August 25, 2014, 09:23:07 AM »
For the OP, here are 3 blog posts where MMM discusses moving to the US and why he lives in Colorado. Hopefully that narrows down what you need to read to find the answers to your questions. The rest of the blog is really good if you enjoy MMM's writing style, its a little over the top if you're just used to the forums.

http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/09/15/a-brief-history-of-the-stash-how-we-saved-from-zero-to-retirement-in-ten-years/
http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/09/28/get-rich-with-moving-to-a-better-place/
http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2014/05/09/stashtown-usa/

Gerard

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1360
  • Location: eastern canada
Re: MMM is Canadian?
« Reply #27 on: August 25, 2014, 04:58:22 PM »
I'll try to read a copy of Fire and Ice as soon as I can get ahold of it in english. If nothing else it's good to read things that are contrarian to your own thinking, which at the moment is that Canada and the US are about as similar as two countries can be, with some minor differences.

One of the premises of the book, I think, is that some of the differences come about because Canadians are aware of their similarities to Americans and make choices that emphasize particular differences. Some of the differences I remember from the book are we're far more likely to be unionized, and far less likely to regularly attend church. And we seem to be unwilling to pay for certain status-enhancing products (e.g., "preferred customer" status at banks, which I didn't even know was a thing). Plus, if I remember right, we give less to charity per capita than Americans, which is why I used the word "cheap" as well as "frugal". Although there may be some apples-vs-oranges involved in that one, as we expect certain social functions to be taken care of by government rather than private charities.

Regarding your reply about Debt-to-income, your response makes no sense to me.  How can "because we can [buy things on credit]" be used to defend the frugality of Canadians?  Whether someone can buy something on credit is irrelevant - if someone is buying on credit, and extended credit exceeds annual income... in my book that's the opposite of frugal.  Availability of credit has nothing to do with it.

I could have been clearer. I meant that Americans aren't as un-frugal as they could be if they had the same access to easy credit as we do right now.

Thanks for poking me to clarify, and for the other links. I'm gonna go play with that.

RetiredAt63

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 10575
  • Location: Eastern Ontario, Canada
Re: MMM is Canadian?
« Reply #28 on: August 25, 2014, 06:41:57 PM »
Keep going North on 11 from Cobalt.  ;-)

I use to live in Holtyre Ontario as a kid (huge metropolis - dare anyone to find it on a paper map) and we moved to Alaska to get out of the snow and cold there :-)!

Spartana

  • Guest
Re: MMM is Canadian?
« Reply #29 on: August 26, 2014, 03:05:30 PM »
Keep going North on 11 from Cobalt.  ;-)

I use to live in Holtyre Ontario as a kid (huge metropolis - dare anyone to find it on a paper map) and we moved to Alaska to get out of the snow and cold there :-)!
Ha Ha yep - about 100 miles north and hang a right at Ramore - if you hit Quebec you went to far.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2014, 03:41:01 PM by Spartana »

iris lily

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3185
Re: MMM is Canadian?
« Reply #30 on: August 26, 2014, 08:28:52 PM »
For the OP, here are 3 blog posts where MMM discusses moving to the US and why he lives in Colorado. Hopefully that narrows down what you need to read to find the answers to your questions. The rest of the blog is really good if you enjoy MMM's writing style, its a little over the top if you're just used to the forums.

http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/09/15/a-brief-history-of-the-stash-how-we-saved-from-zero-to-retirement-in-ten-years/
http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/09/28/get-rich-with-moving-to-a-better-place/
http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2014/05/09/stashtown-usa/

Thanks so much! I read every one of them!

downtownshuter

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 29
Re: MMM is Canadian?
« Reply #31 on: August 27, 2014, 07:52:49 AM »
Mr. Money Hoser

Love it! Between this thread and all the news about Tim Horton's being acquired, I have had this song stuck in my head for two days

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2E064kb3UnU

downtownshuter

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 29
Re: MMM is Canadian?
« Reply #32 on: August 27, 2014, 08:02:08 AM »
Keep going North on 11 from Cobalt.  ;-)

I use to live in Holtyre Ontario as a kid (huge metropolis - dare anyone to find it on a paper map) and we moved to Alaska to get out of the snow and cold there :-)!
Ha Ha yep - about 100 miles north and hang a right at Ramore - if you hit Quebec you went to far.

Don't you mean 160 kilometers? ;)

Spartana

  • Guest
Re: MMM is Canadian?
« Reply #33 on: August 27, 2014, 02:39:55 PM »
Keep going North on 11 from Cobalt.  ;-)

I use to live in Holtyre Ontario as a kid (huge metropolis - dare anyone to find it on a paper map) and we moved to Alaska to get out of the snow and cold there :-)!
Ha Ha yep - about 100 miles north and hang a right at Ramore - if you hit Quebec you went to far.

Don't you mean 160 kilometers? ;)
Ah ya, aboot that far eh :-)!

clarkm04

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 182
Re: MMM is Canadian?
« Reply #34 on: September 02, 2014, 03:22:04 PM »
Here it is.  Around 17:30ish to 18:15ish
http://www.doughroller.net/retirement-planning/how-to-retire-at-age-30-with-mr-money-mustache/

Summary: Moved from Canada to US after working approx.  3 years because tech was paying way more and taxes are lower in the US.  He indicates his salary went from in the low 60s to mid-80s by crossing the border.

There's another podcast where he states if tech was paying the same in Canada, he probably would have stayed, but the increased income was too high to ignore.  (Tried to find it for referencing, but failed.)

RetiredAt63

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 10575
  • Location: Eastern Ontario, Canada
Re: MMM is Canadian?
« Reply #35 on: September 03, 2014, 05:02:52 AM »
Good song, can tell he is from Ontario, what is with the 19 for legal drinking age?  It's 18 in Quebec, Alberta, and Manitoba
Mr. Money Hoser

Love it! Between this thread and all the news about Tim Horton's being acquired, I have had this song stuck in my head for two days

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2E064kb3UnU