Author Topic: MMM Budget (I can't get anywhere close)  (Read 26973 times)

grantmeaname

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Re: MMM Budget (I can't get anywhere close)
« Reply #50 on: June 08, 2012, 01:36:03 PM »
Dodging my above questions is very productive however.
Why should I be the only one to put effort into the discussion?
Is it ethical to the animals?  To the water quality of our streams and our environment? To the world food crisis?
I believe the answers are potentially yes, potentially yes, and certainly yes. Do you think otherwise? Why?

zoltani

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Re: MMM Budget (I can't get anywhere close)
« Reply #51 on: June 08, 2012, 01:37:16 PM »
Yeah, that is exactly what i said.  eyesroll.jpg

You only brought up the issue of treatment of the animal, that is why i stated those questions.  Obviously your decision to not eat meat is due to the treatment of the animal.  Personally I am more concerned with water quality issues. 


grantmeaname

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Re: MMM Budget (I can't get anywhere close)
« Reply #52 on: June 08, 2012, 01:42:19 PM »
And if that's where you draw your ethical values from, that's perfectly fine. Now, is it possible to produce any type of meat whatsoever without causing water quality issues? Yes, it is. Therefore, ethical meat by your standards can exist.

Jamesqf

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Re: MMM Budget (I can't get anywhere close)
« Reply #53 on: June 08, 2012, 01:55:28 PM »
Problem is you read it wrong. i didn't spend $43K on my wedding. I spent $7500. Why is it so hard to understand that?
I donated $35K as gift to people I care. Giving has to be a way of living. Giving gives you happiness. Yes, be impressed that I am willing to give. But NO, I will never ever never ever spent 5 figures on a stupid wedding.

The question I'd ask, though - and this is in no way intended as an attack on you - is whether your friends & family really appreciated the gift?  I ask this because a similar thing happened with some close friends of mine.  Their daughter/stepdaughter recently married, and (thanks to the jerk/lawyer she married) decided to hold the wedding at a Mexican resort.  Now my friends have a ranch: they can't easily leave it for a week, and what's more, they hate to travel.  (Like me, they think contemporary airline travel should fall under the Geneva Convention.)  So the offering of this "gift" was in reality no gift at all, but a considerable burden.

KittyWrestler

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Re: MMM Budget (I can't get anywhere close)
« Reply #54 on: June 08, 2012, 02:04:41 PM »
Problem is you read it wrong. i didn't spend $43K on my wedding. I spent $7500. Why is it so hard to understand that?
I donated $35K as gift to people I care. Giving has to be a way of living. Giving gives you happiness. Yes, be impressed that I am willing to give. But NO, I will never ever never ever spent 5 figures on a stupid wedding.

The question I'd ask, though - and this is in no way intended as an attack on you - is whether your friends & family really appreciated the gift?  I ask this because a similar thing happened with some close friends of mine.  Their daughter/stepdaughter recently married, and (thanks to the jerk/lawyer she married) decided to hold the wedding at a Mexican resort.  Now my friends have a ranch: they can't easily leave it for a week, and what's more, they hate to travel.  (Like me, they think contemporary airline travel should fall under the Geneva Convention.)  So the offering of this "gift" was in reality no gift at all, but a considerable burden.

Very good question..
I am Chinese, so majority of my family live in China. My husband is from midwest. In order to be fair to everyone, we choose a tiny island in the middle of the pacific.

Most of the families don't have much to spare. let along going on a trip 8,9 hours away by plane. Many of the kids have never seen Hawaii islands.

When I took all of them to Big island and we hiked to the heart of the crater of the National Volcano park, my 72 year old aunt held my hand and said, "This is the best day!" It just feels great.. Till today, my nephew, now 8, back then 4 is still talking about the Nemo he saw in the water..

To see everybody gathered together under one roof and spent a memorable week together as a family is the best thing! You can't take money with you. But when there is love and family around you, even if you don't have  a dime, life is wonderful.. I pity those who think money is everything... So giving away some money in exchange for a life time wonderful experience for my family is priceless...

zoltani

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Re: MMM Budget (I can't get anywhere close)
« Reply #55 on: June 08, 2012, 02:13:57 PM »
And if that's where you draw your ethical values from, that's perfectly fine. Now, is it possible to produce any type of meat whatsoever without causing water quality issues? Yes, it is. Therefore, ethical meat by your standards can exist.

I take issue in the term "without causing", yes, it is possible to produce meat while reducing the impact to water quality, but not possible to do it without causing impacts to water quality. 


grantmeaname

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Re: MMM Budget (I can't get anywhere close)
« Reply #56 on: June 08, 2012, 02:26:25 PM »
Go to the middle of the woods, shoot a deer. Butcher, cook, eat.

No impacts to water quality, look at that.

Bank

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Re: MMM Budget (I can't get anywhere close)
« Reply #57 on: June 08, 2012, 02:37:43 PM »
Go to the middle of the woods, shoot a deer. Butcher, cook, eat.

No impacts to water quality, look at that.

Yes!  My wife's extended family keeps us well supplied with venison.  And I grew up on a subsistence farm in New York run by a couple of back-to-the-landers.  We raised a variety of livestock, butchered our own meat, and as far as I can tell the land and water were just fine.

zoltani

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Re: MMM Budget (I can't get anywhere close)
« Reply #58 on: June 08, 2012, 02:40:39 PM »
Go to the middle of the woods, shoot a deer. Butcher, cook, eat.

No impacts to water quality, look at that.

I'll take two please!

Can i get them at hole foods?

Kriegsspiel

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Re: MMM Budget (I can't get anywhere close)
« Reply #59 on: June 08, 2012, 10:43:42 PM »
[quote author=kolorado link=topic=882.msg12646#msg12646 date=1338485799

Sure. We have 9yo boy, 7yo girl and 20 month old girl. Their growing caloric needs are as much as mine. It's not unusual for my son to eat 8 pancakes in a sitting or 2 or 3 hot dogs or PBJ sandwiches. I'm a Flexitarian so I only have meat a couple times a week so that saves a bit of money.
I usually make something homemade for breakfast or we have a previously made baked good like banana bread or fruit pie or simply toast and fruit. Today was wheat pancakes, not from a mix, and scrambled eggs and coffee. Lunch will be Hebrew National hot dogs(only brand I buy), cucumbers/celery/carrots with ranch dressing, and leftover baked beans. Typical lunches are leftovers or sandwiches(natural pbj on wheat, home roasted chicken or turkey, egg salad, etc)with a fruit or veggie. Tonight's dinner will be baked ham, au gratin potatoes(not from a box)and steamed broccoli with a chocolate pudding pie for dessert(again, no box mixes).
I generally cook only 4 planned dinners a week like tonight's. The other nights we eat leftovers or something quick like salads, plain pasta and sauce, or burgers from the freezer. We have homemade pizza every Friday night. It's less than $2 to make a medium pizza with toppings. I make 4 and freeze whatever isn't eaten for quick lunches or snacks over the weekend. The real tricks are to buy "staple" ingredients and make as much from scratch as possible, stock up when the prices are low and don't waste food.
What I don't buy is another factor that gets our costs down. I don't buy juice, it's nutritionally useless unless you're making it at home from actual fruit and veggies. I don't let my kids drink endless quantities of milk. I do buy soda but we split only 2 cans on pizza night. I don't buy candy unless it's for a birthday. I won't buy Hamburger Helper type stuff, mixes of any kind, or canned soups(have they ever invented anything that is a bigger rip-off?), not even with a coupon. I don't buy snacky stuff outside of pretzels and rarely chips and crackers. When the snack bags come out everyone gets a small bowl and that's it. When I buy chips, they last 3 or 4 days even with the entire family eating them. I rarely buy cereal. We all prefer homemade goodies or eggs and toast over cold cereal. Processed foods aren't as filling as "real" foods. Once you really get off the hydrogenated oils and corn syrups you realize how much more satisfying less processed foods are. It sounds hokey I know but it's true! When you fill up faster and stay full longer you will spend less on food.
[/quote]

BBBBvvvvvvvffffffhhhh this made me hungry.

Kriegsspiel

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Re: MMM Budget (I can't get anywhere close)
« Reply #60 on: June 08, 2012, 10:44:22 PM »

Sure. We have 9yo boy, 7yo girl and 20 month old girl. Their growing caloric needs are as much as mine. It's not unusual for my son to eat 8 pancakes in a sitting or 2 or 3 hot dogs or PBJ sandwiches. I'm a Flexitarian so I only have meat a couple times a week so that saves a bit of money.
I usually make something homemade for breakfast or we have a previously made baked good like banana bread or fruit pie or simply toast and fruit. Today was wheat pancakes, not from a mix, and scrambled eggs and coffee. Lunch will be Hebrew National hot dogs(only brand I buy), cucumbers/celery/carrots with ranch dressing, and leftover baked beans. Typical lunches are leftovers or sandwiches(natural pbj on wheat, home roasted chicken or turkey, egg salad, etc)with a fruit or veggie. Tonight's dinner will be baked ham, au gratin potatoes(not from a box)and steamed broccoli with a chocolate pudding pie for dessert(again, no box mixes).
I generally cook only 4 planned dinners a week like tonight's. The other nights we eat leftovers or something quick like salads, plain pasta and sauce, or burgers from the freezer. We have homemade pizza every Friday night. It's less than $2 to make a medium pizza with toppings. I make 4 and freeze whatever isn't eaten for quick lunches or snacks over the weekend. The real tricks are to buy "staple" ingredients and make as much from scratch as possible, stock up when the prices are low and don't waste food.
What I don't buy is another factor that gets our costs down. I don't buy juice, it's nutritionally useless unless you're making it at home from actual fruit and veggies. I don't let my kids drink endless quantities of milk. I do buy soda but we split only 2 cans on pizza night. I don't buy candy unless it's for a birthday. I won't buy Hamburger Helper type stuff, mixes of any kind, or canned soups(have they ever invented anything that is a bigger rip-off?), not even with a coupon. I don't buy snacky stuff outside of pretzels and rarely chips and crackers. When the snack bags come out everyone gets a small bowl and that's it. When I buy chips, they last 3 or 4 days even with the entire family eating them. I rarely buy cereal. We all prefer homemade goodies or eggs and toast over cold cereal. Processed foods aren't as filling as "real" foods. Once you really get off the hydrogenated oils and corn syrups you realize how much more satisfying less processed foods are. It sounds hokey I know but it's true! When you fill up faster and stay full longer you will spend less on food.

BBBBvvvvvvvffffffhhhh this made me hungry.

Kriegsspiel

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Re: MMM Budget (I can't get anywhere close)
« Reply #61 on: June 08, 2012, 10:44:56 PM »
...I suck at the internet.

MsLogica

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Re: MMM Budget (I can't get anywhere close)
« Reply #62 on: June 09, 2012, 07:09:03 AM »
Go to the middle of the woods, shoot a deer. Butcher, cook, eat.

No impacts to water quality, look at that.

Heh, I was just about to write a comment to the same effect, and then I saw yours.

I don't know if Zoltani's reply re: whether you could buy it at whole foods was a joke or not, but most people can find meat to their ethical standards (whatever they may be) - unless you want meat that grows on trees and never walks.

I live in a rural town and can get access to smallholding meats, which are raised in small numbers (2 pigs!), have little impact on the environment and have a nice life (until they're eaten, but then that is what they're bred for).  Alternatively, when I lived in a city I had access to an organic farm box from a local farm that raised its own cattle.

As a geologist, I'm fascinated (not in a condescending way, in a genuinely interested way!) that your concern about meat production is water quality.  Are you concerned about water quality in general or just as its involved in meat production?  Do you use bleach and cleaning products at home?  Do you wear jeans?  If so, I think you have other, more pressing, water quality worries to focus on before you target the farming industry.

Jamesqf

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Re: MMM Budget (I can't get anywhere close)
« Reply #63 on: June 09, 2012, 11:24:10 PM »
I live in a rural town and can get access to smallholding meats, which are raised in small numbers (2 pigs!), have little impact on the environment and have a nice life (until they're eaten, but then that is what they're bred for). 

I'd think anyone whose acquaintance with the natural world is broader than watching Disney films would realize that in nature few if any animals ever die of old age.  They are killed and eaten by something.  Most are killed and eaten before they grow up - or did you never wonder how rabbits, for instance, can produce several litters of 4-12 per year, without filling the world with rabbits?

Another thing which should be obvious is that all the critters - from bears & deer down to mice & squirrels - living out in the woods are crapping there, too.  There are no handy critter-sized portapotties built into treetrunks.  Critters of one sort or another have been doing their business out in the woods for the last few hundred million years.  (Indeed, you can even buy fossilized dinosaur crap.  Just go to eBay and look for "coprolite".)  Which, since we aren't buried miles deep in dino dung, suggests that nature has quite effective waste reprocessing systems.  These work as well for cows as for deer, when the cows are allowed to graze naturally.

dancedancekj

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Re: MMM Budget (I can't get anywhere close)
« Reply #64 on: June 09, 2012, 11:53:30 PM »
Go to the middle of the woods, shoot a deer. Butcher, cook, eat.

No impacts to water quality, look at that.

Doesn't get more free-range and grass fed than that! I have been trying to befriend a hunter so I can pay them a handsome amount of money for venison (seeing as how I am rather inept with firearms).