Author Topic: Another Tell Me About Seattle Thread  (Read 2003 times)

JetBlast

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Another Tell Me About Seattle Thread
« on: April 02, 2021, 01:52:15 PM »
There have been some big changes in my life recently and now it is time to contemplate another one, namely moving to be close to work.  There are several base options but Seattle is intriguing due to outdoor activities, no state income tax, and a couple friends already in the area.  But I really don't know the area that well apart from having stayed downtown several times, and I'd like some other opinions on the region.  I previously lived in Portland, OR so while not exactly the same as Seattle I'm familiar with the continuous overcast, light drizzle, and short days of winter.

I'd be based at SeaTac airport so ideally the closer the better, but really anywhere in the Seattle/Tacoma region is on the table since I would only be doing the commute once or twice a week.  Somewhere with good access to outdoor activities, safe with low property crime, and the basic city amenities like grocery stores, libraries, coffee shops, etc... close by is what I'm looking for.  Also looking for a place that a recently single guy in his mid-30s can build a social life but not be surrounded by college kids partying or d-bags that think dropping $1,000 for bottle service at a club is impressive.  I could reasonably afford up to $2,000 a month rent for a 1-2 bedroom apartment while still stashing away to get to FI.
 

Thanks for any opinions
 

honeybbq

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Re: Another Tell Me About Seattle Thread
« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2021, 02:28:35 PM »
Well, I have lived here for not quite a decade so here's some thoughts.

-if you lived in Portland, you basically understand the social/customs of Seattle - mostly liberal, fighters for social justice, embracers of 15$ minimum wage, etc.
- as you mentioned, the long dark, wet winters are hard but if you are an outdoor person and can ski, snowshoe, etc. there are opportunities that are amazing in the winter.
-Seatac area is more multi-cultural and less expensive than some other areas of Seattle (north side, Bellevue, etc).  You could also try Renton area.
-2k a month in that area should be plenty.

some other good things:
- lots of great restaurants, grocery stores with hard-to-get ingredients, etc.
- access to outdoors is second to none. Go to the beach, go kayaking, go hiking, go skiing. Anything. It's all an hour a way. Plus several national parks.
- you mentioned no state income tax. This is juxtaposed by increased car tabs and property taxes. Still a win in my opinion.
- it's *decent* for biking but not great. There are still a lot of distracted drivers IMO

bad things:
-traffic sucks and due to not a lot of money the roads are bad. All of our roads cross water so it makes it challenging with bridges. Commuting N/S is easier than commuting E/W.
- stuff is expensive. Gas, groceries, etc.
- there are a LOT of people in the Seattle-Tacoma area. Seattle proper is not that big but when you add them all in together- it's a boatload.

good things:
-proximity to outdoors and awesome vacation spots: San Juan islands, Canada/Whistler, the national parks, etc.
-good airport HUB. Easy flights to California, Hawaii, etc. Alaska airlines is great.
- music scene (non covid times)
- active hobby/networking groups. While people are mostly introverted and antisocial, there's lots of "clubs" and meetups for people who have hobbies and they are general friendly there.

What else can I answer?

Sailor Sam

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Re: Another Tell Me About Seattle Thread
« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2021, 03:28:20 PM »
I lived in Seattle 2005-2007, and again 2015-2018. I also grew up east of the Cascades, and visited Seattle several times a year to see relatives from my inception in 1980, until my departure in 1998.

Culture:
Overarchingly, Seattle is a city that’s departed sharply from the grunge roots that it used to share with Portland. Google and Amazon moved in, and the Seattle turned into one of those liberal bastions that really cares about social justice, while really spitting on the people social justice is supposed to succor. As in, they will fight for your right for $15/hour, but would really prefer that your lower class ass get back on the bus to the outskirts as soon as your shift is over.

Fun!
Access to outdoor stuff, and people who like outdoor stuff is stellar. Joining clubs, of which there are so many gives you access to friendship raw material, which is a way to circumvent the Seattle Freeze. I enjoyed every second of my recreation time in Seattle.

Where to Live:
I lived in North Seattle, and found that really convenient, mostly because I rarely had to leave North Seattle. For you, suggest anything south of downtown would be reasonable. The plus side is that south of downtown is more multi-cultural, runs a little cheaper, has vibrant stuff going on, and has actual social justice vibes, instead of the fake stuff further north.

Transportation:
Metro Seattle’s biggest saving grace, bar absolutely fucking none, is the amazing transit system. No matter your goal—carbon reduction, no hassle with parking, designated driver—the transit system has your back.

Good luck considering your move. I comprehensively hated New Seattle, but a lot of people seem to really enjoy it, so I think I’m the one doing things wrong.

 

seattlecyclone

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Re: Another Tell Me About Seattle Thread
« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2021, 11:54:38 PM »
Seattle turned into one of those liberal bastions that really cares about social justice, while really spitting on the people social justice is supposed to succor. As in, they will fight for your right for $15/hour, but would really prefer that your lower class ass get back on the bus to the outskirts as soon as your shift is over.

A fair assessment. Case in point: when some people figured out some zoning loopholes that would allow them to build new homes in the middle of the city that people making $15/hour could actually afford, that got shut down pretty quickly after outcry by neighbors who were having none of it. Don't even get me started on the folks who would very much like to see the homeless encampments cleaned up by any means necessary, despite the fact that we don't have the facilities available to house most of the people sleeping in tents, nor do we have the political will to raise enough revenue to change that anytime soon.

That said, I've lived here more than a decade and have no plans to leave. The city is in a picturesque location, with a mild climate and easy access to various natural and cultural amenities. If you're working in the airline business out of the airport, I'd recommend living near one of the Link Light Rail stations. When the train is running it makes the airport commute super quick and easy. You might need to find alternative transport for very early or late flights though.

You should be able to find decent housing under $2,000 pretty much anywhere in town, especially in the areas on the south end of Seattle and the suburbs around the airport. The richer, whiter neighborhoods tend to be clustered north of downtown.

JetBlast

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Re: Another Tell Me About Seattle Thread
« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2021, 12:56:18 PM »
Thanks for the replies everyone.  Wondering if anyone has opinions on West Seattle or Tacoma as well.  Tacoma may be a little farther than I'd prefer but it's still close enough for me to consider since I wouldn't be driving it five days a week. Also, I'm sure budget would be more constraining but anything worth considering as you move north out of Renton (Issaquah, Kirkland, Bellevue, Redmond) or all too pricey with bad traffic to get to SeaTac?

Seattle turned into one of those liberal bastions that really cares about social justice, while really spitting on the people social justice is supposed to succor. As in, they will fight for your right for $15/hour, but would really prefer that your lower class ass get back on the bus to the outskirts as soon as your shift is over.

A fair assessment. Case in point: when some people figured out some zoning loopholes that would allow them to build new homes in the middle of the city that people making $15/hour could actually afford, that got shut down pretty quickly after outcry by neighbors who were having none of it. Don't even get me started on the folks who would very much like to see the homeless encampments cleaned up by any means necessary, despite the fact that we don't have the facilities available to house most of the people sleeping in tents, nor do we have the political will to raise enough revenue to change that anytime soon.

That said, I've lived here more than a decade and have no plans to leave. The city is in a picturesque location, with a mild climate and easy access to various natural and cultural amenities. If you're working in the airline business out of the airport, I'd recommend living near one of the Link Light Rail stations. When the train is running it makes the airport commute super quick and easy. You might need to find alternative transport for very early or late flights though.

You should be able to find decent housing under $2,000 pretty much anywhere in town, especially in the areas on the south end of Seattle and the suburbs around the airport. The richer, whiter neighborhoods tend to be clustered north of downtown.

Good information.  Thank you. 

Unfortunately that attitude toward lower income and homeless populations is prevalent seemingly everywhere now.  Support for the poor and minorities...just as long as you don't have to actually see them except behind the counter serving you.  I find it quite disheartening. 

-Seatac area is more multi-cultural and less expensive than some other areas of Seattle (north side, Bellevue, etc).  You could also try Renton area.

One of my friends in the area actually lives in Renton right now as they wait for their home way out in the suburbs to be completed.  He says there's no way he'd raise his eight month old son there.  I'm not sure if it's really as bad as he makes it sound, or if it's that change most people go when they become first time parents and get hyper-protective.  Any opinions on Renton?
« Last Edit: April 03, 2021, 03:49:32 PM by JetBlast »

seattlecyclone

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Re: Another Tell Me About Seattle Thread
« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2021, 07:37:37 PM »
Thanks for the replies everyone.  Wondering if anyone has opinions on West Seattle or Tacoma as well.

West Seattle is pretty nice. Lots of cute older neighborhoods with actual sidewalks, plus a fair amount of more recent higher-density development along the main arterial corridors. Alki Beach is wonderful. The place feels kind of isolated from the rest of Seattle because it's on its own peninsula, especially now that the main bridge to downtown is broken. The commute to the airport would be nice and quick though! You can probably find good deals on rent until they fix the bridge.

Tacoma has a certain amount of charm, has kind of been neglected over the years but has a lot of potential. Definitely cheaper because the tech wealth hasn't really made its way down there.

The areas between (Renton, SeaTac, etc.) are largely your typical mid-20th century American suburb: single-family homes with spacious yards, curvy streets, spotty sidewalk coverage, businesses in nondescript strip malls, mostly out of walking distance from where the people live. I'm sure the city you're in now has places very similar to this. Those particular suburbs tend to be less wealthy than the ones to the east and north of Lake Washington (Bellevue, Kirkland, Lynnwood, Issaquah, etc.). This of course tends to go hand in hand with higher rates of crime and poverty, but I wouldn't agree with your friend that it would be an unacceptable place to live with a young child. There are definitely people who need to live in an idyllic setting where there's no real evidence of anybody having a bad time in your midst, and it sounds like maybe your friend is one of those.

JetBlast

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Re: Another Tell Me About Seattle Thread
« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2021, 09:49:57 AM »
Thanks for the replies everyone.  Wondering if anyone has opinions on West Seattle or Tacoma as well.

West Seattle is pretty nice. Lots of cute older neighborhoods with actual sidewalks, plus a fair amount of more recent higher-density development along the main arterial corridors. Alki Beach is wonderful. The place feels kind of isolated from the rest of Seattle because it's on its own peninsula, especially now that the main bridge to downtown is broken. The commute to the airport would be nice and quick though! You can probably find good deals on rent until they fix the bridge.

Tacoma has a certain amount of charm, has kind of been neglected over the years but has a lot of potential. Definitely cheaper because the tech wealth hasn't really made its way down there.

The areas between (Renton, SeaTac, etc.) are largely your typical mid-20th century American suburb: single-family homes with spacious yards, curvy streets, spotty sidewalk coverage, businesses in nondescript strip malls, mostly out of walking distance from where the people live. I'm sure the city you're in now has places very similar to this. Those particular suburbs tend to be less wealthy than the ones to the east and north of Lake Washington (Bellevue, Kirkland, Lynnwood, Issaquah, etc.). This of course tends to go hand in hand with higher rates of crime and poverty, but I wouldn't agree with your friend that it would be an unacceptable place to live with a young child. There are definitely people who need to live in an idyllic setting where there's no real evidence of anybody having a bad time in your midst, and it sounds like maybe your friend is one of those.

Good information.  Thanks seattlecyclone! 

Roland of Gilead

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Re: Another Tell Me About Seattle Thread
« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2021, 10:46:37 AM »
Seattle is great!

As pointed out, they will fight hard for you to make at least $15 an hour....as long as you continue to use the servant's entrance.

Of course, they will take back a large chunk of that $15 with a 10% sales tax, which is very regressive for a progressive liberal environment.

They also tax the heck out of soda, because it is a favored drink by those people trying to relax after working 10 hours for their $150 daily pay.  This is because the sugar in soda is very bad for you compared to the (untaxed) large frappuccino with whip favored by those people trying to relax after working 10 hours in their tech job for their $1500 daily pay.

Telecaster

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Re: Another Tell Me About Seattle Thread
« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2021, 12:40:55 PM »
I like Seattle. I used to love Seattle.  So many of the things that made Seattle unique have been paved over and redeveloped.  Property crime is definitely a problem.  Homelessness is out of control and no one knows what to do about it.   The Seattle City Council, most of them, are complete morons. 

Re: Renton.  Parts of Renton are sketchy, some parts are fine.  Renton is a geographically large city, so it can vary a lot depending on where you are.

West Seattle is cool, not as cool as it used to be, but still cool.   Good choice if you are working at the airport.   As you go straight south from West Seattle (and closer to the airport) the neighborhoods tend to get sketchier but there are some nice areas and generally improving. 

Most of Tacoma is a dump, but the downtown is improving and the Stadium District and Old Town neighborhoods are quite charming. 

Samuel

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Re: Another Tell Me About Seattle Thread
« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2021, 02:50:14 PM »
I like Seattle. I used to love Seattle.  So many of the things that made Seattle unique have been paved over and redeveloped.  Property crime is definitely a problem.  Homelessness is out of control and no one knows what to do about it.   The Seattle City Council, most of them, are complete morons.   

Lifelong Seattle area resident here. This pretty much sums up my feelings and those of most of my friends. It's a little hard to explain how much the general character has shifted in the last 10-15 years with the increasing influx of young techies and the way the already progressive politics has seemingly decoupled from basic realities. The city council is too woke by half and seems intent on being the test bed for all kinds of left wing socioeconomic theories, with decidedly mixed results. Seattle is objectively a less pleasant place to live then it was 10 years ago, but still pretty damn good. Just don't leave ANYTHING in your car overnight.

The scenery and outdoor activities remain amazing of course but the volume of people enjoying them can be a problem. Sounds like you aren't going to be working a standard 9-5 M-F schedule, which I think is key these days to avoiding the worse of the traffic and recreation congestion.

I agree with seattlecyclone and Telecasters' opinions of West Seattle and Tacoma. When I read your first post I immediately thought West Seattle as it still retains a cool neighborhood feel and is a straight shot down to Seatac but for the next couple years getting from there into Seattle proper in a car is going to be unbelievably sucky during peak times (the passenger ferry into downtown may be useful, though). Tacoma is definitely up and coming as housing is still somewhat affordable, if you're looking at buying. Several of my friends ended up there after being priced out of Seattle and like it but there are fewer social and cultural opportunities so they brave the traffic up to Seattle fairly regularly.

If the light rail running times and Seatac stop location (the passenger terminal) work for your schedule the Columbia City neighborhood might also be a good pick. Cute little neighborhood core and short light rail runs into downtown and to the airport. Close to Lake Washington and closer to the mountains than West Seattle. It's diverse and pretty lively, but has a whiff of gentrification tensions in the air sometimes.

JetBlast

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Re: Another Tell Me About Seattle Thread
« Reply #10 on: April 05, 2021, 09:11:00 AM »
Seattle is great!

As pointed out, they will fight hard for you to make at least $15 an hour....as long as you continue to use the servant's entrance.

Of course, they will take back a large chunk of that $15 with a 10% sales tax, which is very regressive for a progressive liberal environment.

They also tax the heck out of soda, because it is a favored drink by those people trying to relax after working 10 hours for their $150 daily pay.  This is because the sugar in soda is very bad for you compared to the (untaxed) large frappuccino with whip favored by those people trying to relax after working 10 hours in their tech job for their $1500 daily pay.

Yeah, I thought the tax structure was all sorts of backward for a liberal state.  Quite regressive, but seeming well suited to the mustachian lifestyle and goals. 

I like Seattle. I used to love Seattle.  So many of the things that made Seattle unique have been paved over and redeveloped.  Property crime is definitely a problem.  Homelessness is out of control and no one knows what to do about it.   The Seattle City Council, most of them, are complete morons. 

Re: Renton.  Parts of Renton are sketchy, some parts are fine.  Renton is a geographically large city, so it can vary a lot depending on where you are.

West Seattle is cool, not as cool as it used to be, but still cool.   Good choice if you are working at the airport.   As you go straight south from West Seattle (and closer to the airport) the neighborhoods tend to get sketchier but there are some nice areas and generally improving. 

Most of Tacoma is a dump, but the downtown is improving and the Stadium District and Old Town neighborhoods are quite charming. 


Good information about Renton, West Seattle, and Tacoma.  Thank you.

Homelessness is a major issue in every big city I visit for work and nobody seems to have a good solution.  Every single one.  Some just hide it from view a little better.  I suspect it always will be as cities by their nature present more economic opportunity and will attract people desperate to improve their lot in life.

I like Seattle. I used to love Seattle.  So many of the things that made Seattle unique have been paved over and redeveloped.  Property crime is definitely a problem.  Homelessness is out of control and no one knows what to do about it.   The Seattle City Council, most of them, are complete morons.   

Lifelong Seattle area resident here. This pretty much sums up my feelings and those of most of my friends. It's a little hard to explain how much the general character has shifted in the last 10-15 years with the increasing influx of young techies and the way the already progressive politics has seemingly decoupled from basic realities. The city council is too woke by half and seems intent on being the test bed for all kinds of left wing socioeconomic theories, with decidedly mixed results. Seattle is objectively a less pleasant place to live then it was 10 years ago, but still pretty damn good. Just don't leave ANYTHING in your car overnight.

The scenery and outdoor activities remain amazing of course but the volume of people enjoying them can be a problem. Sounds like you aren't going to be working a standard 9-5 M-F schedule, which I think is key these days to avoiding the worse of the traffic and recreation congestion.

I agree with seattlecyclone and Telecasters' opinions of West Seattle and Tacoma. When I read your first post I immediately thought West Seattle as it still retains a cool neighborhood feel and is a straight shot down to Seatac but for the next couple years getting from there into Seattle proper in a car is going to be unbelievably sucky during peak times (the passenger ferry into downtown may be useful, though). Tacoma is definitely up and coming as housing is still somewhat affordable, if you're looking at buying. Several of my friends ended up there after being priced out of Seattle and like it but there are fewer social and cultural opportunities so they brave the traffic up to Seattle fairly regularly.

If the light rail running times and Seatac stop location (the passenger terminal) work for your schedule the Columbia City neighborhood might also be a good pick. Cute little neighborhood core and short light rail runs into downtown and to the airport. Close to Lake Washington and closer to the mountains than West Seattle. It's diverse and pretty lively, but has a whiff of gentrification tensions in the air sometimes.

Good information on Columbia City.  I hadn't heard that name before but I'll definitely do a little more digging into the area.  Thank you.  And I appreciate your views on how the city has changed in the last 10-15 years as well. 

seattlecyclone

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Re: Another Tell Me About Seattle Thread
« Reply #11 on: April 05, 2021, 10:31:14 AM »
Seattle is great!

As pointed out, they will fight hard for you to make at least $15 an hour....as long as you continue to use the servant's entrance.

Of course, they will take back a large chunk of that $15 with a 10% sales tax, which is very regressive for a progressive liberal environment.

They also tax the heck out of soda, because it is a favored drink by those people trying to relax after working 10 hours for their $150 daily pay.  This is because the sugar in soda is very bad for you compared to the (untaxed) large frappuccino with whip favored by those people trying to relax after working 10 hours in their tech job for their $1500 daily pay.

Yeah, I thought the tax structure was all sorts of backward for a liberal state.  Quite regressive, but seeming well suited to the mustachian lifestyle and goals.

In a nutshell, our state Supreme Court ruled in the 1930s that a progressive income tax violated the state constitution (the constitution requires that property taxes be assessed at uniform rates across any given class of property, the court ruled that income is a class of property, ergo an income tax would be unconstitutional unless it was perhaps a flat tax). That precedent has stood until the present day. The legislature is currently considering bills to tax capital gains (over $250k) and wealth (over $1 billion). If either of those passes we'll probably see a challenge to the law and we'll see if a 21st century court affirms the early 20th century precedent.

jrhampt

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Re: Another Tell Me About Seattle Thread
« Reply #12 on: April 05, 2021, 10:54:08 AM »
I've only been to Seattle once...have friends that live there in the Columbia City neighborhood mentioned above, so that's where I was.  The public transport system was fantastic - I took it to and from the airport - and I loved that everything you need is within walking distance in that neighborhood - grocery stores, restaurants, yoga studios, and Lake Washington is a short jog away and a fantastic place to run/bike.  I really enjoyed being there.

travel2020

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Re: Another Tell Me About Seattle Thread
« Reply #13 on: April 05, 2021, 01:04:44 PM »
Quote
Also, I'm sure budget would be more constraining but anything worth considering as you move north out of Renton (Issaquah, Kirkland, Bellevue, Redmond) or all too pricey with bad traffic to get to SeaTac?

As others have stated, West Seattle is a good option if you plan to commute to the airport. It has a nice vibe, good collection of eclectic shops, Alki beach etc. Have friends who live there and they love it there. The main issue for the next couple of years is the bridge closure which makes it tough to get to Seattle.

I’ve lived on the Eastside for many years. Most of it is suburbia. Of all the cities you listed, Bellevue and Kirkland are probably more suitable than other areas for someone single. Bellevue has decent options when it comes to bars & restaurants, shops, etc. Issaquah and Redmond don’t have much to in the evenings and most either go to Seattle or Bellevue for entertainment, dining, etc. Redmond/Bellevue/Kirkland are all 20-30 mins drive from SEA under normal traffic though prepandemic it could get a lot worse during peak times.

Budget wise, I think 1-2 bedroom for $2k is definitely doable. Someone I know was recently looking to move to Bellevue area from Seattle because of a new job and mentioned looking at several 1BR in Bellevue downtown area at $1500-$1700 range. I think the light rail is supposed to arrive in Bellevue in the next year or two, so might be worth keeping in mind if you decide to explore the eastside.

JetBlast

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Re: Another Tell Me About Seattle Thread
« Reply #14 on: April 06, 2021, 09:00:21 PM »
Thank you everyone for the advice and recommendations.  After doing some research both Columbia City and West Seattle look promising.  Renton also seems like it is worth a closer look.     

Seattle is great!

As pointed out, they will fight hard for you to make at least $15 an hour....as long as you continue to use the servant's entrance.

Of course, they will take back a large chunk of that $15 with a 10% sales tax, which is very regressive for a progressive liberal environment.

They also tax the heck out of soda, because it is a favored drink by those people trying to relax after working 10 hours for their $150 daily pay.  This is because the sugar in soda is very bad for you compared to the (untaxed) large frappuccino with whip favored by those people trying to relax after working 10 hours in their tech job for their $1500 daily pay.

Yeah, I thought the tax structure was all sorts of backward for a liberal state.  Quite regressive, but seeming well suited to the mustachian lifestyle and goals.

In a nutshell, our state Supreme Court ruled in the 1930s that a progressive income tax violated the state constitution (the constitution requires that property taxes be assessed at uniform rates across any given class of property, the court ruled that income is a class of property, ergo an income tax would be unconstitutional unless it was perhaps a flat tax). That precedent has stood until the present day. The legislature is currently considering bills to tax capital gains (over $250k) and wealth (over $1 billion). If either of those passes we'll probably see a challenge to the law and we'll see if a 21st century court affirms the early 20th century precedent.
Thanks for the history.  It seems like most states that go the 0% income tax route have major royalties from oil, natural gas, or mineral extraction to make up the revenue shortfall.  I had no idea why Washington had no income tax.