Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV - Punch me in the face?

[dinostache]

Hello,

I'm considering a major purchase and I am asking whether I need to be punched in the face :).  Let me explain the situation.  One of our two cars was recently totaled.  I need something that will be used primarily as a city car.  I bike a lot for transportation, but so far I haven't got my wife on board with that, and she does do more miles than me (dropping the kid at daycare etc).  She wants AWD - and we do live in a snowy climate.  I'll take a few punches for that one :).  i want this car to be able to tow our boat so that I can keep my very cheap to run Chevy Cobalt.  i'm ducking your punches on that one: it was my Dad's boat, serves as a connection to Dad and from my kid to her grandpa, and I'm keeping it nice as long as i can; it clearly improves our lifetime happiness.

I have never considered buying a new car before.  Most of my contenders here are used Ford Escapes or Mazda CX-5 or a few other used cars - probably moving on from Subaru which was our previous car because the resale value on those seems too high.  However, this Mitsubishi car - which was introduced in the US in the 2018 model year - seems to do the things I want.  It may be a bit frustrating towing long distance, but I might put up with that for potential positive environmental impact (we don't tow long distances very often).  My numbers seem to imply that the long run cost of this vehicle, because of fuel savings from running on electric around town, might be about the same as our other choices.  That's after figuring loss of compound interest from the extra upfront cost of the vehicle at 4% over the life of the used cars I'm looking at.  Now, that does assume I'll be taking advantage of the federal EV tax credit, and a current manufacturer rebate.

I'd be planning to drive the car 14 years which is what it would take us to rack up 200,000 miles.  There's probably no way this would work out if I drove it less than 175,000 miles.

Is this a really dumb option that I need a good face punching for?  Or can this work?  I'm very interested in the tech and in clean driving, but a little leery of what happens after Mitsubishi's generous 100,000 mile powertrain warranty expires.  And also just about laying out that much upfront for a vehicle.  This would be a cash purchase though, we don't need to go into debt over it.

Dino

[dhc]

I need something that will be used primarily as a city car.
<snip>
She wants AWD
<snip>
i want this car to be able to tow our boat

You do realize most city cars do not need AWD and do not tow boats, right? And do not need to cost ~$60,000 over the next 10 years?

One of our two cars was recently totaled.
<snip>
I'd be planning to drive the car 14 years which is what it would take us to rack up 200,000 miles.  There's probably no way this would work out if I drove it less than 175,000 miles.

Did the totaled car have 175,000 miles on it? If not, how do you expect this one (with brand-new technology for the company that makes it, no less) to last that long?

Face punch. No possible way around it.

[Linea_Norway]

Mitsubishi Outlander plug-in hybrid would be my current choice for a new car. We also live in a snowy climate with very steep roads to our house where all non 4x4 cars get stuck in the winter.
From what I have read in tests, the electric range of the Mitsubishi is quite good compared to other plug-in hybrids.  In one test it could drive 50 kms in winter, while the rest could do much less. For us that would mean that the car could do all the local trips electrically. How is this for your wife's commute? Can she charge at work?
For long range trips, and for towing, you can use the petrol/gas.
One of our neighbours has such a car and he is quite content with it.

But as our 9 year old Subaru Outback still works, we will keep driving it until we need to replace it. Then we will decide what we really need.

[ShoulderThingThatGoesUp]

I own two PHEVs, one of them bought new, but I don’t think you’re going to get there on math that relies on keeping a car for 175,000 miles. If you acknowledge you’re paying a little extra to not buy gas, that’s fine, that’s where I am, and if you have your retirement plan on-track good for you.

But no plan that starts out “I need AWD and to tow a boat” is going to get the Mustachian seal.

That said, run the numbers on an EV for city driving and renting or owning a rarely-used tow vehicle?

The problem here is trying to combine efficient city car with boat-towing. Indeed the Outlander PHEV sits at that nexus.

[Another Reader]

Mitsubishi overall has a poor record of repair and their products do not last.  You won't see many five year old Mitsubishis on the road.  I would avoid buying one.  I would especially avoid any new model.

Trying to combine missions in a car is unnecessary.  Rent a tow vehicle when you need it for the boat and buy something safe and inexpensive that will handle snow and your steep road for the next car.

[trollwithamustache]

I'll take an unpopular opinion on this site. Buying a new car and being meticulous about all the recommended maintenance is a low cost way to own a car over the long run, ie 10 year minimum.

I've done a lot of towing with under powered vehicles. I saved a lot of gas year round and a few times a year, you need to do a little route planning for a less steep/crowded road, and you run the engine pretty hard. (but, see above, do your oil changes on time)

175k miles is a very reasonable expectation from a modern car assuming OP does the regular maintenance on it.  I'd shoot for 250k, but I'm a cheapass.

[Rosy]

It's really simple - if the vehicle costs you X per year for X years - what impact will that have on your finances and potentially on your retirement? There is an app that tells you exactly that. I believe it is called Pretirement.

Flexibility and being open to whatever is out there is a plus in your search.
My MO is can I afford it and do I like it well enough to be stuck with it until it dies?
In the end, the math is what decides my purchase.

We talk a lot about core values on this forum - well, falling in love with a particular vehicle does not count as a core value at least in my book. I was very tempted to buy the Mercedes that I always wanted but common sense prevailed and I am (almost:) glad it did. I lucked into a killer deal on a Buick, not a car that was even on my radar but in the end, it checked all the boxes and then some.
It is transportation - it is a must have and you have certain requirements.

Your goal should:) be to find a vehicle that makes sense financially and meets your requirements, your future self will thank you.
FWIW for Mr. R. who has a long commute, a new Subaru at zero percent interest loan and a package deal incentive was the best route. Like you mentioned the used Subarus are too expensive to make sense compared to a new one.

[slow hand slow plan]

why? You do not even get the advantage of an electric vehicle with a hybrid. You still have a regular gas engine and all of the maintenance that requires plus the battery issues of an electric. How many times do you pull a boat a year?

[ShoulderThingThatGoesUp]

why? You do not even get the advantage of an electric vehicle with a hybrid. You still have a regular gas engine and all of the maintenance that requires plus the battery issues of an electric. How many times do you pull a boat a year?

PHEVs are a compromise certainly, but they run the gas engine so much less than conventional (or regular hybrid) cars that there is much less fuel consumed and wear on the engine and associated parts.

[Syonyk]

Ok... why can't she run the Cobalt with snow tires in the winter?  A set of snows and steelies is about $1000 for most cars, and I would take FWD with snow tires over AWD on snow, any day.  Any year.  Been there, done that, offering advice.

How heavy is your boat?  There's a difference between a small 20' aluminum canoe, a bass boat, and something that's 40' and 15k lb.  You haven't specified which you need, though I assume not 15k lb.

A bit more concrete explanation of your requirements would help, a ton.  Though would probably make the Outlander seem silly. ;)

If you bike and winter is a problem, studded snow tires for a bike are $150 or so for a good set (avoid a set under $100 or so - they're going to pop studs out like you won't believe, and make sure you have carbide studs, not steel studs).

However, this Mitsubishi car - which was introduced in the US in the 2018 model year - seems to do the things I want.

Except have a proven track record of reliability, which you assume...

Now, that does assume I'll be taking advantage of the federal EV tax credit, and a current manufacturer rebate.

Are you paying at least $7500/yr in federal taxes?  It's a non-refundable, non-roll-overable credit - and married with a kid, and current tax law, $7500 requires a pretty hefty family income.

I'd be planning to drive the car 14 years which is what it would take us to rack up 200,000 miles.  There's probably no way this would work out if I drove it less than 175,000 miles.

A brand new PHEV, one of the first attempts from a company, making it nearly 200k without a major repair?

I'd bet on "not."

Is this a really dumb option that I need a good face punching for?

Yeah.  It is.

Get a set of snow tires for the Cobalt, and if that won't tow the boat, get something that will - an older F150 or such would probably do it.  I know truck is a bad word around here, but if you're biking to work and have a perfectly good car for her to use around town, an older, cheaper truck (vans are generally a royal pain in the rear to work on) would solve problems nicely, and if you're not driving it much, fuel costs don't matter that much.  And they're good in snow.

Zoom out, work out your actual requirements, and try to find the minimum cost approach to accomplishing that - and I'm pretty sure a new PHEV isn't the right answer.

IMO, there's nothing wrong with a truck, as long as it isn't a regularly driven vehicle.  I have a perfectly good '97 F350, Crew Cab, Long Bed, diesel, 4WD (as Jesus would have driven - dude was almost certainly a carpenter into his 30s, can't haul lumber in a Fit).  It rarely gets driven, and I actually installed a battery tender this summer because keeping the battery charged is actually a concern during certain times of the year when I just use it around the property.  If I'm driving it, I'm probably hauling furniture, lumber, or a combination.  Or the Ural wouldn't start, but I've mostly fixed the shower of sparks starting system.

So.  How heavy is the boat and trailer, and how little can you get away with driving a tow vehicle?

why? You do not even get the advantage of an electric vehicle with a hybrid. You still have a regular gas engine and all of the maintenance that requires plus the battery issues of an electric. How many times do you pull a boat a year?

The gas engine is ideally used infrequently, which (dramatically) increases maintenance intervals.

It's a good compromise solution if you can't afford a Tesla, or the yet-to-actually-exist electric trucks.