Probably about to Lose My Job...

[kmb501]

I've been working at a detention center and making a decent teacher's salary. I've been there for about a year, but I've recently found out that my boss may not be renewing my contract. I might need to start looking for another job. I have a master's degree in Education and ESL and a bachelor's in ELA, but I have a personality that most kids can't stand. I'm picky to a fault, and it's difficult for me to converse freely and show my emotions. I'm a nice person, but it either doesn't translate at all or the kids know it and take advantage of it. I haven't figured out which yet, but I know sometimes I deal with ridiculous behavior problems, and I don't really know what to do about it.

The aspects of the job I love are the creativity, freedom, and flexibility teachers have with lesson planning and delivery. The aspects of the job I hate are having to deal with the whims of children and adults all day and getting so frustrated that I can't even communicate my feelings.

[mozar]

but I have a personality that most kids can't stand. I'm picky to a fault, and it's difficult for me to converse freely and show my emotions. I'm a nice person, but it either doesn't translate at all or the kids know it and take advantage of it. I haven't figured out which yet, but I know sometimes I deal with ridiculous behavior problems, and I don't really know what to do about it.

You have serious and deep issues to address before you will be able to figure out what kind of job will work for you. I used to think I had a personality most people couldn't stand, but I realized that thought was because of my depression. I'm not a doctor, and I can't diagnose you, but when you figure out how to treat the core cause (anxiety, depression, ASD, whatever) everything else will start to get easier.

It's a long ass journey (took me about 10 years) but it's worth it to do the work to get better.

[Richie]

I originally studied to become a teacher, but ended up pursuing a career at public libraries.  It has been extremely rewarding, and I get to teach people every day.  I work with a lot of people with backgrounds in education.  Might be worth considering for you.

[kmb501]

I originally studied to become a teacher, but ended up pursuing a career at public libraries.  It has been extremely rewarding, and I get to teach people every day.  I work with a lot of people with backgrounds in education.  Might be worth considering for you.

People have told me to become a librarian, but it just doesn't speak to me like teaching does. Kids are terrible, though, and I cannot constructively do discipline.

[Campanula]

I'm sorry you're having such a rough time. As you're working at a detention centre, I imagine you're dealing with incredibly challenging behaviour, so maybe a different field or different type of teaching would suit you better. That said, you seem to value working independently but not enjoy interacting with people and that really is the essential part of bring a teacher. Is there another kind of work within the education field or elsewhere that might give the creativity and flexibility you need?

I find I'm much more picky when I'm under stress, so it's a sign I need to make some changes. Also, have you done any work on different learning styles? I wonder if you find yourself expecting things done a certain way, which might be extra difficult to achieve with challenging kids.

[kmb501]

I'm sorry you're having such a rough time. As you're working at a detention centre, I imagine you're dealing with incredibly challenging behaviour, so maybe a different field or different type of teaching would suit you better. That said, you seem to value working independently but not enjoy interacting with people and that really is the essential part of bring a teacher. Is there another kind of work within the education field or elsewhere that might give the creativity and flexibility you need?

I find I'm much more picky when I'm under stress, so it's a sign I need to make some changes. Also, have you done any work on different learning styles? I wonder if you find yourself expecting things done a certain way, which might be extra difficult to achieve with challenging kids.

I really think this may be an issue I have with kids across the board. They just present themselves in more extreme ways in this environment. It goes something like this; I start out being really nice to the kids and try to get to know them. They politely ask for treats and various other favors if they are "good." I usually agree. The behavior gets worse. I withhold treats and favors. The students get upset and there are increasing disruptions. The students start making fun of me, taunting me, and generally being very disrespectful. I'm mortified at the behavior and enact stricter discipline. The kids calm down, but some fight it. I continue to struggle with the ones who fight, and they sometimes incite others to rebel. 

[DebtFreeBy25]

I've read some of your previous posts and have some concept of the challenges you face in your current position. You're right that kids will still be kids even in a traditional school environment. There are many people who love to teach but can't handle students of a certain age. (I love to teach undergraduates and can handle high school kids one-on-one, but I'd be woefully unprepared to wrangle a room full of them.)

Three specific suggestions of roles that may be a better fit:

- GED instructor- Perhaps you'd be more successful working with adults. They'd certainly present fewer behavioral challenges. I know you aren't interested in teaching ESL and wouldn't be qualified to teach full-time at the collegiate level (typically requires a PhD), so that leaves adult education/GED courses.

- Online secondary instructor- Have you looked into teaching online? Interactions with students in an online classroom tend to be more formal and may suit your personality better.

- Curriculum developer, content writer, etc- Do you specialize in any specific areas? If so, you may want to research curriculum design or content writing positions. These jobs don't involve working with students but often want educators who have that experience.

[kmb501]

I've read some of your previous posts and have some concept of the challenges you face in your current position. You're right that kids will still be kids even in a traditional school environment. There are many people who love to teach but can't handle students of a certain age. (I love to teach undergraduates and can handle high school kids one-on-one, but I'd be woefully unprepared to wrangle a room full of them.)

Three specific suggestions of roles that may be a better fit:

- GED instructor- Perhaps you'd be more successful working with adults. They'd certainly present fewer behavioral challenges. I know you aren't interested in teaching ESL and wouldn't be qualified to teach full-time at the collegiate level (typically requires a PhD), so that leaves adult education/GED courses.

- Online secondary instructor- Have you looked into teaching online? Interactions with students in an online classroom tend to be more formal and may suit your personality better.

- Curriculum developer, content writer, etc- Do you specialize in any specific areas? If so, you may want to research curriculum design or content writing positions. These jobs don't involve working with students but often want educators who have that experience.

Actually, I teach adult ESL at night and have a master's in it.

[kmb501]

but I have a personality that most kids can't stand. I'm picky to a fault, and it's difficult for me to converse freely and show my emotions. I'm a nice person, but it either doesn't translate at all or the kids know it and take advantage of it. I haven't figured out which yet, but I know sometimes I deal with ridiculous behavior problems, and I don't really know what to do about it.

You have serious and deep issues to address before you will be able to figure out what kind of job will work for you. I used to think I had a personality most people couldn't stand, but I realized that thought was because of my depression. I'm not a doctor, and I can't diagnose you, but when you figure out how to treat the core cause (anxiety, depression, ASD, whatever) everything else will start to get easier.

It's a long ass journey (took me about 10 years) but it's worth it to do the work to get better.

I don't mean to be tongue-in-cheek, but psychologists and counselors aren't free, so depressed or not, I'll still need to work.

[DebtFreeBy25]

I've read some of your previous posts and have some concept of the challenges you face in your current position. You're right that kids will still be kids even in a traditional school environment. There are many people who love to teach but can't handle students of a certain age. (I love to teach undergraduates and can handle high school kids one-on-one, but I'd be woefully unprepared to wrangle a room full of them.)

Three specific suggestions of roles that may be a better fit:

- GED instructor- Perhaps you'd be more successful working with adults. They'd certainly present fewer behavioral challenges. I know you aren't interested in teaching ESL and wouldn't be qualified to teach full-time at the collegiate level (typically requires a PhD), so that leaves adult education/GED courses.

- Online secondary instructor- Have you looked into teaching online? Interactions with students in an online classroom tend to be more formal and may suit your personality better.

- Curriculum developer, content writer, etc- Do you specialize in any specific areas? If so, you may want to research curriculum design or content writing positions. These jobs don't involve working with students but often want educators who have that experience.

Actually, I teach adult ESL at night and have a master's in it.

Ah, apologies. I remember another thread regarding teaching ESL, but your comment must have been that you weren't interested in teaching ESL overseas. I don't know if your area provides any opportunities to teach ESL full-time. If so, that may be a good option to pursue.

[Bee21]

I taught both kids and adults and they can be both tricky. Kids have the behaviour issues. Adults have attitude issues (ie I am paying for this but don't have the time to learn, you should just somehow pour it in my head, because I am paying).

I loved teaching but I got burnt out after 10 years and ended up in education admin (the pay is actually better at this level). I am starting to get itchy feet, so I am in similar position as you (ie what the hell to do next).

Sorry you are going through this. I remember your previous post about student loans etc

I suggest you get some treatment for your underlying issues and get a survival job in the meantime.

[kmb501]

I think I have asked you this before and you never answered, but are you restricted to the current area where you reside and if so where is that?  Because there seem to be quite a lot of positions for ESL instructors on indeed.com, but I have no idea if they are in places where you would consider living.

Also, there are now places where you can get counseling on-line for a reasonable fee.  I am personally planning to give it a try next week.  These are some of the places I am looking at:

breakthrough.com
betterhelp.com
talkspace.com

Have you tried to speak with your supervisor about the situation? I know it is challenging and uncomfortable, but if you really are about to lose your job it would be better to try to do something to address it, even if only to gain some additional awareness of how you are perceived by others and how you might be able to interact differently in the future.  I wouldn't be too hard on yourself for not being able to connect with these kids -- it isn't like you are trying to teach the church junior choir!  Most of them probably have significant issues that may or may not be getting addressed elsewhere in the system.

I have signed up for better help, but I recently canceled my subscription to it in favor of an actual counselor. It's $200 per month well spent, if you ask me.

[Matumba]

If you teach ghetto kids,  don't be too hard on yourself.  Mist likely,  it's not you,  it's them.

If I were you,  I would look for an esl teacher job overseas. Because you have the right degree and experience,  you can get a job in better countries/cities/schools than a typical esl teacher.

[mozar]

I don't mean to be tongue-in-cheek, but psychologists and counselors aren't free, so depressed or not, I'll still need to work.

I worked while I was getting treatment. But I couldn't really think about what the best job for me was until I was able to clear the cobwebs of depression.
The book that helped me the most was "Feeling Good, the new mood therapy."

[Pigeon]

Would community college be an option?  A PhD may not be required, and I would imagine that many have a decent cohort of students who are not proficient in English.  My sister is an ESL teacher and before she went back to teach full time a public school, she taught for a consulting company that worked with major corporations with large populations of scientists and engineers who were not native English speakers, but were hired for their technical abilities.  She tutored them in English.  It paid pretty well.

[kmb501]

Would community college be an option?  A PhD may not be required, and I would imagine that many have a decent cohort of students who are not proficient in English.  My sister is an ESL teacher and before she went back to teach full time a public school, she taught for a consulting company that worked with major corporations with large populations of scientists and engineers who were not native English speakers, but were hired for their technical abilities.  She tutored them in English.  It paid pretty well.

I'm not trying to shoot down advice, and I might check on it again, but I was under the impression that community college teachers needed lots of experience. 

[GoConfidently]

A lot of research has been done on intrinsic and extrinsic rewards for students. Your method is creating  a cycle of frustration for everyone. You've created a bunch of Pavlovian dogs and wonder why they get upset when you ring the bell and they don't get their treat. Rewards have a place in education, but they should be earned and not given, and they should be hard to earn! Expected normal behavior is the expectation and not an option. It sounds like you need some classroom management training. Whether that is at a workshop or through self-study is up to you, but you'll never succeed in teaching if you're spending all your time disciplining and fighting with the students. Only you can decide if it's worth it to continue.

Another thing to remember is that it is always easier to loosen up than to tighten the reigns. If you start out lax, they will resent it when you get more strict. Start the year firm but kind, with high expectations, and as the year progresses you will have opportunities to give treats and fun rewards for good behavior or academic progress. It never works out well trying to do it the other way around. (Spoken from a fellow teacher who had a rough first year and learned this the hard way.)

[partgypsy]

A lot of research has been done on intrinsic and extrinsic rewards for students. Your method is creating  a cycle of frustration for everyone. You've created a bunch of Pavlovian dogs and wonder why they get upset when you ring the bell and they don't get their treat. Rewards have a place in education, but they should be earned and not given, and they should be hard to earn! Expected normal behavior is the expectation and not an option. It sounds like you need some classroom management training. Whether that is at a workshop or through self-study is up to you, but you'll never succeed in teaching if you're spending all your time disciplining and fighting with the students. Only you can decide if it's worth it to continue.

Another thing to remember is that it is always easier to loosen up than to tighten the reigns. If you start out lax, they will resent it when you get more strict. Start the year firm but kind, with high expectations, and as the year progresses you will have opportunities to give treats and fun rewards for good behavior or academic progress. It never works out well trying to do it the other way around. (Spoken from a fellow teacher who had a rough first year and learned this the hard way.)

I ditto this. What you are doing, trying to be their "friend" they are not going to respect you, and then will resent you and act up when you tighten discipline. It is better to have clear firm expectations. You are not their friend, you are their teacher. If they meet or exceed those expectations then yes can have rewards, but it shouldn't be something they come to expect or accustomed to. Perhaps you will end up becoming friendly with some of them, but that is something they need to earn. This reminds me of the little town in the prairie, where the students had Miss Wilder as teacher.
Sometimes being a "friend" and series of rewards can work, if it is more of a one on one situation, but that's not what you are dealing with. 

[former player]

You need a job, and if you are not to be stuck with your student loans you need a public sector job.  I would suggest you start looking now at all the public sector jobs available in your area that you might remotely be qualified to do, which includes all office work and, if you are physically healthy, manual work too.  Nothing in the public sector should be out of your consideration or beneath your notice.  Once you are in, you can work your way back up, hopefully in something which is easier on you than your current teaching gig has been.

[lbmustache]

I don't think you are terrible at teaching, but perhaps the situation you are in (detention center with kids) might not be the best.

For you, I suggest part-time teaching at a city college till you figure out what to do. I forget where you live (east coast?) but I earn about $60/hr doing this. ESL is in high demand in California, and this may also be in the case in your area. I work about 20-25 hours a week (this does not include driving, prep time, or grading time) and make close to $50k.

You will not have to deal with belligerent kids, as most will manage themselves. Most will also be adults.

STOP wallowing in the negative self-talk. We've had this conversation before. "I'm no good at interviews," "I'm not good at teaching," etc. City college teaching is a semester-by-semester basis, what's the harm of trying it out for a semester and seeing how it goes?

[kmb501]

I don't think you are terrible at teaching, but perhaps the situation you are in (detention center with kids) might not be the best.

For you, I suggest part-time teaching at a city college till you figure out what to do. I forget where you live (east coast?) but I earn about $60/hr doing this. ESL is in high demand in California, and this may also be in the case in your area. I work about 20-25 hours a week (this does not include driving, prep time, or grading time) and make close to $50k.

You will not have to deal with belligerent kids, as most will manage themselves. Most will also be adults.

STOP wallowing in the negative self-talk. We've had this conversation before. "I'm no good at interviews," "I'm not good at teaching," etc. City college teaching is a semester-by-semester basis, what's the harm of trying it out for a semester and seeing how it goes?

I live close to Florida, close to the Gulf Coast. I guess I'll check on these options. I guess I'll try to stop the negative self talk, but it's a habit I've had since I was a child.

[AZDude]

I'm sorry you're having such a rough time. As you're working at a detention centre, I imagine you're dealing with incredibly challenging behaviour, so maybe a different field or different type of teaching would suit you better. That said, you seem to value working independently but not enjoy interacting with people and that really is the essential part of bring a teacher. Is there another kind of work within the education field or elsewhere that might give the creativity and flexibility you need?

I find I'm much more picky when I'm under stress, so it's a sign I need to make some changes. Also, have you done any work on different learning styles? I wonder if you find yourself expecting things done a certain way, which might be extra difficult to achieve with challenging kids.

I really think this may be an issue I have with kids across the board. They just present themselves in more extreme ways in this environment. It goes something like this; I start out being really nice to the kids and try to get to know them. They politely ask for treats and various other favors if they are "good." I usually agree. The behavior gets worse. I withhold treats and favors. The students get upset and there are increasing disruptions. The students start making fun of me, taunting me, and generally being very disrespectful. I'm mortified at the behavior and enact stricter discipline. The kids calm down, but some fight it. I continue to struggle with the ones who fight, and they sometimes incite others to rebel.

You have issues with classroom management. My wife is a teacher, and reading your paragraph even I know that this is a terrible way to manage your students. Read some books on classroom management and remember you are dealing with delinquents. They will be mean. If you do not have thick skin then you need to work somewhere else, ASAP. I would also suggest maybe working with younger children, the ones where calling you a "poopface" is about the worst they will ever do.

[kmb501]

I'm sorry you're having such a rough time. As you're working at a detention centre, I imagine you're dealing with incredibly challenging behaviour, so maybe a different field or different type of teaching would suit you better. That said, you seem to value working independently but not enjoy interacting with people and that really is the essential part of bring a teacher. Is there another kind of work within the education field or elsewhere that might give the creativity and flexibility you need?

I find I'm much more picky when I'm under stress, so it's a sign I need to make some changes. Also, have you done any work on different learning styles? I wonder if you find yourself expecting things done a certain way, which might be extra difficult to achieve with challenging kids.

I really think this may be an issue I have with kids across the board. They just present themselves in more extreme ways in this environment. It goes something like this; I start out being really nice to the kids and try to get to know them. They politely ask for treats and various other favors if they are "good." I usually agree. The behavior gets worse. I withhold treats and favors. The students get upset and there are increasing disruptions. The students start making fun of me, taunting me, and generally being very disrespectful. I'm mortified at the behavior and enact stricter discipline. The kids calm down, but some fight it. I continue to struggle with the ones who fight, and they sometimes incite others to rebel.

You have issues with classroom management. My wife is a teacher, and reading your paragraph even I know that this is a terrible way to manage your students. Read some books on classroom management and remember you are dealing with delinquents. They will be mean. If you do not have thick skin then you need to work somewhere else, ASAP. I would also suggest maybe working with younger children, the ones where calling you a "poopface" is about the worst they will ever do.

I'm not certified to work with younger kids, and what some lack in words, they make up in sheer energy. At least a (normal)rambunctious high school student won't run around screaming, poop in his pants, pee in his chair, and crawl behind your desk (all in about ten minutes) while you are trying to lead fifteen others in a reading assignment. Younger kids, in my estimation, are actually MORE of a challenge.

What works for me are one-on-one sessions with older mature teens and adults with good manners who want to learn. 

[Trudie]

Well, you definitely seem to be self-aware, so I think that's a good sign.  I would definitely talk these issues through with a counselor of some sort, however.  They may give you a better idea of how to use your strengths and honestly assess if teaching is for you.  They can help you decide what sort of setting or work is best for you.  And, if there are better ways to approach these situations (that are in your control), you can change your approach.  I don't think any specific advice we could give you -- not really knowing you and the situations you've faced -- would be helpful.

There is a great deal of evidence to show that tenure in the classroom for most new teachers is not long; and most of it has to do with "classroom management."  Schools of Education in my state (Iowa) have started to devote more time to mentoring and working with teachers to help them manage difficult classroom situations.  The concern is that many teachers, and many good teachers, spend a great deal of time preparing for the profession, incur debt, then end up teaching fewer years than they spent getting educated for it.  You may explore if your alma mater has this option.

[AZDude]

I'm sorry you're having such a rough time. As you're working at a detention centre, I imagine you're dealing with incredibly challenging behaviour, so maybe a different field or different type of teaching would suit you better. That said, you seem to value working independently but not enjoy interacting with people and that really is the essential part of bring a teacher. Is there another kind of work within the education field or elsewhere that might give the creativity and flexibility you need?

I find I'm much more picky when I'm under stress, so it's a sign I need to make some changes. Also, have you done any work on different learning styles? I wonder if you find yourself expecting things done a certain way, which might be extra difficult to achieve with challenging kids.

I really think this may be an issue I have with kids across the board. They just present themselves in more extreme ways in this environment. It goes something like this; I start out being really nice to the kids and try to get to know them. They politely ask for treats and various other favors if they are "good." I usually agree. The behavior gets worse. I withhold treats and favors. The students get upset and there are increasing disruptions. The students start making fun of me, taunting me, and generally being very disrespectful. I'm mortified at the behavior and enact stricter discipline. The kids calm down, but some fight it. I continue to struggle with the ones who fight, and they sometimes incite others to rebel.

You have issues with classroom management. My wife is a teacher, and reading your paragraph even I know that this is a terrible way to manage your students. Read some books on classroom management and remember you are dealing with delinquents. They will be mean. If you do not have thick skin then you need to work somewhere else, ASAP. I would also suggest maybe working with younger children, the ones where calling you a "poopface" is about the worst they will ever do.

I'm not certified to work with younger kids, and what some lack in words, they make up in sheer energy. At least a (normal)rambunctious high school student won't run around screaming, poop in his pants, pee in his chair, and crawl behind your desk (all in about ten minutes) while you are trying to lead fifteen others in a reading assignment. Younger kids, in my estimation, are actually MORE of a challenge.

What works for me are one-on-one sessions with older mature teens and adults with good manners who want to learn.

I'm not talking about toddlers, more like 8 year olds.

[mozar]

The idea that you will be able to find a class of mature children or adults and teach only them isn't realistic. Anybody could teach in those perfect conditions. Learning how to teach immature people effectively is probably the most important part of teaching imo. And there is no profession where people behave perfectly. You have to like the work enough to deal with annoying people, who are everywhere. You're always going to have to deal with people you don't like. It's a learned skill though, people aren't born with it.

[LeRainDrop]

And there is no profession where people behave perfectly. You have to like the work enough to deal with annoying people, who are everywhere. You're always going to have to deal with people you don't like. It's a learned skill though, people aren't born with it.

Amen!

[DebtFreeBy25]

The idea that you will be able to find a class of mature children or adults and teach only them isn't realistic. Anybody could teach in those perfect conditions. Learning how to teach immature people effectively is probably the most important part of teaching imo. And there is no profession where people behave perfectly. You have to like the work enough to deal with annoying people, who are everywhere. You're always going to have to deal with people you don't like. It's a learned skill though, people aren't born with it.

I've taught at the undergraduate level, and while college students aren't perfect, it's a much different environment than a juvenile detention center. (I also have experience working with kids with behavioral issues in a day camp setting.) Just because OP struggles with students with behavioral challenges doesn't mean that OP isn't a good teacher or can't manage a classroom. Not every teacher or instructor is great with special needs students; maybe finding a better fit is the answer in this scenario.

[shanghaiMMM]

When I wanted to improve my classroom management I found this site and found it extremely useful:

http://www.smartclassroommanagement.com/

As mentioned, the method you described isn't optimal. Consistently and fairly enforcing rules has helped me a great deal. I'm much calmer and relaxed having followed some methods from the above site. Hope it helps!