Mileage when buying and used car and similar questions

[rdp123]

Hi everyone,
I hope you're well. My lady and I recently unloaded a Mazda CX5 bought new in 2019 at zero interest midway through our loan at only about $3K less than we paid for it. We're thrilled with the savings, and I feel relieved that we got out of what I now consider a poor financial decision with so little suffering.

But now I'm on the market for an used purchase that hopefully people will have insight on.

I banged the heck out of that Mazda during frequent trips to the mountains, and also got it stuck repeatedly. I don't commute, but my girlfriend does, and she's using a 2011 Prius I bought cash a couple years ago. I'm looking for an used pickup or SUV that I can give the same rough treatment without feeling bad, haul stuff (I'm a woodworker and canoe owner), and take camping to the beach. I'm looking for true 4WD, having gotten stuck one too many times, but other than that pretty open minded. I would put about 3K-4.5K miles on this truck per year. I don't want to spend more than $15K. I would be over the moon to spend less than $10K.

I'm not too knowledgeable about cars, but getting handier and looking at this as an opportunity to learn to perform routine maintenance and maybe some simple repair work. But I don't want to lose money to a lemon. So I'm wondering the following:

- What sort of mileage should I be looking at for a more or less reliable vehicle that serves these purposes? I used to think that any car over 100K was a disaster waiting to happen, but I bought my Prius at 148K and it had fewer problems than the newer Mazda (though we used it way less). Great deals on this trucks and SUVs in this market don't seem to even really start until you start looking at cars and trucks past 100K. I'm surprised at the number of >300K trucks on the market. Am I stuck in the past with my thinking? Is 150K reasonable? Or should I be looking at more gently used cars under, say, 80K miles if I want something reliable?
- Does anyone have experience buying state surplus or auction vehicles? We have both close to my house. The prices are low, though the quality sometimes appears to reflect it. Both reward and risk seem high. At my level of knowledge, is this getting in over my head?
- Are there any big flashing warnings I should keep my eye out for when examining an used car with >100K mileage? I'm brushing up now, but historically I bring potential used cars to my service shop, which evaluates them for me. That's not always an option with CL and definitely not with state surplus or auctions.

I greatly appreciate any help y'all can provide. Thanks in advance! - RDP

[joe189man]

Wait, you sold a 0% interest SUV that was 60% done with payments (assuming a 5 year note) to buy something used that will probably cost more than the remaining 40% on that car's note?

I know on this site buying new is frowned upon, and i will get beat up for saying this, but i would have kept that car. 2019 was pre the used car run-up in prices and you had 0%.

did you do an analysis on what your preferred vehicle will cost compared to the CX-5?

Almost no one needs a true 4x4, this is coming from someone who had a 4x4 diesel and oddly enough has a mazda 3 hatch that has been all over.

[Paper Chaser]

It's a terrible time to be buying a used vehicle. Particularly trucks and SUVs, as they're the hottest segment of the currently overpriced market. They've seen even larger increases in price than new vehicles (as a percentage). You're not likely to find much "value" there. Your best bet is finding things that aren't super popular (manual transmissions, regular cab pickups, small trucks, etc).

To your other questions, trucks and most new vehicles last longer and longer all the time. 200k miles is pretty much the new 100k. If you're only doing 3-4k miles per year, starting mileage doesn't really matter a ton. It would take you nearly a decade to put 30k miles on one.

The thing with all used vehicles is that condition, prior usage, and maintenance history are a lot more critical than the number on the odometer. Knowing what you're looking at can be critical.

I'd also look for vehicles that did not spend their lives in a location that salts roads with any frequency. This is simple in the day of the internet and shipping. Rust can kill an aging vehicle faster than mechanical problems, and it can make any maintenance/repair work much more difficult. Particularly for a novice.

[rdp123]

@joe189man: Thanks for the input. I did not mention before, but the precipitating incident was getting stuck with a $2K repair bill, which we forewent, along with not dealing with the cracked windshield or denting. The previous car was co-owned, and more of a burden on my girlfriend, who makes less than I do. Going one-car for the time being works well for us, saves us some money, and will allow us over the time to get cars ideal for what we want. One of those is true 4x4. Notwithstanding your experience, I've gotten stuck off road twice with the CX5 with free-spinning wheels. In one case a buddy helped push me out, and in the other, a rock climber pulled me out with a climbing rope, which worked but was dangerous.

@Paper Chaser: Yep, I know it's not a good time to be buying, but it was a good time to be selling, so it's more or less a wash, given that we wanted out of our former situation. Nice to know that folks don't like manual or regular cabs, because I do. Thanks for the helpful comments, much appreciated!

[joe189man]

@joe189man: Thanks for the input. I did not mention before, but the precipitating incident was getting stuck with a $2K repair bill, which we forewent, along with not dealing with the cracked windshield or denting. The previous car was co-owned, and more of a burden on my girlfriend, who makes less than I do. Going one-car for the time being works well for us, saves us some money, and will allow us over the time to get cars ideal for what we want. One of those is true 4x4. Notwithstanding your experience, I've gotten stuck off road twice with the CX5 with free-spinning wheels. In one case a buddy helped push me out, and in the other, a rock climber pulled me out with a climbing rope, which worked but was dangerous.

Ok i get it now, when i go hunting i park the mazda and ride in my friend's trucks. If you are frequenting forest service roads or back country trails the CX-5 likely isnt your ride.

there is i post i will look for talking about how best to approach buying a car considering miles and prices, give me a bit

[rdp123]

Yes, both times I got real stuck I was on FS roads hunting. And there's a few trailheads I've either not made it to or had to walk to because I wouldn't chance it with the CX5. I did get it through a few exhilarating stream crossings though! Thanks @joe189man

[gooki]

I've had great luck buying high milage Japan manufactured ex company cars. Prices are normally well below market rate, and they've been well looked after (regular servicing, any issues quickly fixed).

Currently rocking a 2014 Mazda CX-9 with 240,000 km on the clock. I can fit my kayak, two kids and a dog inside. Cost all of $9,500 a year ago.

For more serious offroading I'd look for a Toyota Highlander, 4Runner, Land cruiser, Nissan Pathfinder, or Subaru Outback, Forester

[rdp123]

Thanks for the tips @gooki much appreciated! I'm curious about your definition of "high mileage" -- are you talking above 100K (160k km)? More? Less? Do you have a target, or are you judging from the overall condition of the vehicle?

[sonofsven]

In my area, at least, the Tacoma sells at a great premium over other makes, for no reason, really, except perception. I bought a Nissan Frontier in '12. At that time I did research I found the Frontier to be a better truck (on paper) than the Tacoma. Better brakes, more HP, more torque, and most importantly lower price. The Tacoma has a much higher resale value. Since I planned to "buy and hold" I bought the Frontier.
I'm still holding at 192K and no major work, just maintenance. I've also babied the truck as it is for my business, not a toy.

So I would look for a well maintained Frontier if you want to save money.

[joe189man]

here it is

https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/ask-a-mustachian/how-to-buy-a-car-(if-you-must)/

i used this to evaluate some cars i was considering getting, suggest you make a spread sheet and review them to get a feel for what they should cost

[rdp123]

Good to know @sonofsven -- thanks! I actually have had my eye on the Frontier. There's a lot of them around here, and they do seem modestly priced compared to the Tacomas. Great to hear it's holding up so well near 200K.

Thanks @joe189man ! Just checked it out, this is helpful!

[six-car-habit]

  We bought a rig about 4 years ago now, i wanted something that was true 4x4, that could be a 'winter beater' or take the family+ dog + stuff to the beach a few hours away, that i didn't need to worry about dings or dents, but that looked good / clean / fully functional when we bought it.
  We ended up getting an '04 Explorer . it had 140K miles on it.  2 owners from new, private party thru craigslist, came with a folder full of receipts, they had had the transmission rebuilt @ 125K. The body is straight, paint nice, the interior is clean. We only pay for liability/ uninsured motorists insurance, no comp or collision.

 Other than a few oil changes done in my driveway, it needed a "coil pack" after about 2 years, and i put on a 'crank trigger sensor' at the same time. { It could have been either part causing the issue } . Took about 1/2 hour of Youtube search/ video watching to figure out the likely culprit and how to replace them. 1/2 hour getting the parts from local autoparts store including the drive. and < 1/2 hour to remove the old parts and reinstall the new. Total cost $120 parts.

    We've put almost 20K miles on it in 4 years.  I did put a set of top rated TireRack Perelli Scorpion mud/wet + snow tires on it for about $700. Purchase price of rig was $3600.  About 22 cents a mile so far [excluding gas and insurance ] and it should go another 20,000 miles with no major issues, bringing the total cost per mile down more over time. So many Explorers were made parts are easy to come by. Major Repair costs are similar to the Nissans and Toyotas [ and both of those are decent alternatives ] .  We get about 16-17 combined mpg, it is hilly where we are. Had we gotten the smaller ford Escape instead i think it would be closer to 20mpg.

 Anyhow, it's great in snow, will go down forest service and badly maintained private dirt roads that our Subaru Forrester would probably get stuck on/in , due to the real "low-range' transfer case + factory skid plates versus AWD....plus it's a more comfortable long distance driver than the subaru [which has similar miles and we bought new].

edit to add - you mentioned state surplus or auction house vehicles as potential alternatives to save $$.  My 2 cents is lots of car auctions are "dealer only' so you need to know someone in the business [ although we have a local auction house out here that auctions 50+ cars, once a month to the general public ] . The Downside is the auction vehicles Rarely come with Any sort of history or documentation, and you can't take them on the freeway for a test drive !  I'd rather sort thru craigslist adds for a week or two, to find an honest / realisticly priced seller who can prove some long term upkeep/ ownership history....

[rdp123]

Thank you for this @six-car-habit -- very helpful!!

[iluvzbeach]

I was just going to post about the Frontier or an Xterra. The PRO-4X models should get you what you need and at much less cost than a Toyota. SMOD (Google it) is an issue in certain years, so be sure to avoid those. We recently picked up a meticulously maintained ‘12 Xterra PRO-4X with less than 75K miles and DH has been incredibly happy with it. He uses it on local mountain roads & forest land and hasn’t run into any issues yet. As others mentioned, finding one that hasn’t lived in an area where salt is used on the roads is key.

[rdp123]

Thank you @iluvzbeach ! Another very helpful response. Definitely getting the sense from this thread that Nissan are underrated. I'd never heard of SMOD, so thanks for the heads up!

[roomtempmayo]

I'm looking for an used pickup or SUV that I can give the same rough treatment without feeling bad, haul stuff (I'm a woodworker and canoe owner), and take camping to the beach. I'm looking for true 4WD, having gotten stuck one too many times, but other than that pretty open minded. I would put about 3K-4.5K miles on this truck per year. I don't want to spend more than $15K. I would be over the moon to spend less than $10K.

If you're driving <5k miles/year, I'd look at Suburbans that have been used as kid-haulers.  They depreciate much faster than their 1500/2500 pickup counterparts.

Look for something one owner with maintenance records, street tires, no hitch, and a clean undercarriage.

[gooki]

Thanks for the tips @gooki much appreciated! I'm curious about your definition of "high mileage" -- are you talking above 100K (160k km)? More? Less? Do you have a target, or are you judging from the overall condition of the vehicle?

High milage for me is 40,000 km plus per year. Basically a company car that's on the road all day, 5 days a week. My theory is if it was a lemon it wouldn't have made it this far, or the repairs would show up in the service records. I only put on 5,000 km a year, so that like 8 years of use for me being equal to one years use of the previous owner.

What I look for is high miles, young age (3-6 years old) good condition interior, no burning oil or water consumption, and regular servicing.

I'm more that happy for a few scratches and dents on the exterior. I'm not precious about my cars and a few scratches means they get f'all as a trade-in, so should be cheaper to buy.

E.g. the CX-9 in bought the paint on the alloy wheels was pealing all over, some minor scratches, and a crack in the rear tail light.

I repainted the wheels for all of $20 and some effort.
The scratches will buff out.
And I'll eventually replace the tail light for all of $150.

If buying privately a good thing to find out is what car they upgraded to. If they stuck with the same model or make, that's a good sign.

We only pay for liability/ uninsured motorists insurance, no comp or collision.

Same here. Liability insurance only, saves me $800 a year. Multiply that by 3 vehicles and that's a big saving, an a risk I'm happy to take. One of the great benefits of owning a car you don't care to much about.

[iluvzbeach]

Oh, yes, I should have mentioned that we look for sellers who’ve hung on to their service records, or cars where we can see service history on a service like CarFax or similar. Ideally, one owner vehicles and no accidents. We are specifically looking for stock vehicles that have evidence necessary maintenance was performed.

[six-car-habit]

   Here is a 2006 Nissan Xterra , 2owner, nice shape , 180K miles, $ 3500, on my local craigslist - that i would consider contacting the seller to set up a test drive, for myself if i were in the market, per the guidelines folks have suggested.
 
   https://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/cto/d/portland-2006-xterra-off-road/7453154377.html

 If the budget was $10K to $20K, would definitely look at the Pro-4X series as suggested above by iluvzbeach

[iluvzbeach]

If properly maintained, the above-linked Xterra is probably a terrific option for the price. The Off-Road model is an earlier (1st Gen) version of the Pro-4X (2nd Gen). Vehicles that have lived their life in the PNW can usually be counted on to be rust-free or nearly so. That’s where we are and where we got our Pro-4X.