MIL evicted again

[arob54600]

Honestly, we don’t know what to do.
My MIL refused help with getting on Disability 6 months ago ( she has manic-depressive disorder and a heart condition). The lawyer said she had a good case but she wouldn’t do any paperwork.

Now she and my husband’s younger brother 27 have just been served an eviction notice.

We are not FIRE yet, we’ve got about 10-15 years left atleast & we have a baby on the way. No disposable income. I REALLY don’t want to move them in. She is not very stable and my BIL is an alcoholic. This is their 3rd place in 5 years. They keep getting evicted.
Please, give us some wisdom.
We don’t want to be bad people and we love our family but we can not bankroll EVERYONE in the  family.

[former player]

I'm sorry for your troubles.


It's fine not to give money:  "we have a baby on the way and no spare income" is the answer to give if "no" doesn't work.  It's also fine to say "we don't have room for you to stay here".


What you can do is work the phones and visit advice centres: addiction advice services, mental health advice services, pensioners' advice service, social services.  Both your MIL and BIL sound like vulnerable people for whom something will be available, although it may be difficult to access it.


Best of luck.

[Frankies Girl]

If she won't do the paperwork, will she let you do it for her so she has a home somewhere? That's all I'd offer. I would sit down with her and get it all filled out, file it and offer to make any calls or further paperwork/contacts for her, but I would absolutely put my foot down about them even staying overnight because they might just refuse to leave.

They likely will get mad and scream or cry or whatever they usually do to get others to do what they want. You and your spouse will have to stand very firm and tell them that you care and are offering as much help as you are capable of, but they are grown adults and need to do their own work on their own life.

No is an acceptable response. You don't have to make excuses or justify it.

No, you can't live with us.
No, we don't have any money to give you.
No, we won't give you a deposit for an apartment/cosign anything.
No, you can't just crash on our couch for a few days.


And for any bullshit "whyyyyyy" your response is a simple: "because that doesn't work for us"

Tell them what you are willing and able to do for them, and be firm about what you are not.

It will suck. They likely will make you both feel like crap for not caring about them/abandoning them and play that for all its worth. You are not the problem, and you (and your spouse) are not going to fix things or them on your own either.

[KBecks]

Can you connect them with a church group for help and pray for them?

[Paul der Krake]

I wouldn't worry too much about the reactions of a maniac and a alcoholic. They don't really have a say in the matter.

More importantly, what does your husband want to do?

[MishMash]

DO. NOT. MOVE. THEM. IN!!!!

We moved my FIL in after a very similar situation, it was the worst mistake of our lives, and our marriage.  It turned into us footing all his bills, so he could "pay off his credit cards" and that only turned into maxing out every single one on crap he didn't need. 

And THEN we got to get screamed at for butting into his business, and how DARE we try to make him do a budget.  He called me every name in the book by the time it was all said and done, we kicked him out 2 months ago and things have been great since then minus the fact that DHs entire family hates him for trying to straighten his dad out, even though he stepped up when none of them would.

Don't do it. don't do it, don't do it.

27 year old can get a damn job and start contributing, hell I'll even say go force MIL to fill out the disability claim, like physically show up and refuse to leave until she fills out the paperwork.  She can actually get a lump sum of back disability from the time she files to receives.

[bugbaby]

Honestly, we don’t know what to do.

Nothing.

Any intervention would be harming them by hampering their own journey to maturity.

I like M Scott Peck's definition of Love: caring about the other person's spiritual growth.  The most loving thing to do would be nothing.


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[Awesomeness]

I’d tell the brother about AA meetings. Maybe find one near him, give him the location and time and be done w that.  Give the mil the lawyers number for the disability.  Is she on meds for bipolar?  I know denial can be a huge issue here. You could express your concernsin this area, your husband could offer to go to the doctor w her.  Al Anon is for the relatives or friends of alcoholics. If your husband is interested he could go and learn how to deal w his brother, it’d be helpful for the mom too. Enabling them won’t help but if you offer good solid help to them and they take it, that’s a win. Most likely they’d leave you alone because what your offering won’t enable them, too much inward looking work and they just won’t go there. 

Practice boundaries for yourself, alcoholics just take and take. Bipolar people feel entitled and act it. It’s good to learn about their inflictions so you can offer help if they sincerely show they’re worthy of it, but mostly to protect yourself so you don’t go down the rabbit hole w them. 

[Freedomin5]

Reminds of a book I just read written by a sociologist called “Evicted”. It’s about the poor in America who are frequently evicted and discusses policies and how loved ones try to help. I think it won the Pulitzer.

Anyway, my biggest takeaway is that you definitely should not offer money. Many of these people do not have the skills or discipline to manage it, or the mindset not to “waste” it. BUT...do offer other forms of support.

If they don’t have a car, offer to drive them to appointments so they can complete their paperwork. Drive BIL to AA meetings. Offer to pay for rehab (paid directly to the rehab center). Drive MIL to the social services office so she can apply for food stamps. Drive her to the appropriate government office so she can apply for section 8 housing. Help her go through the forms if she is uneducated and doesn’t understand the legalese. Offer to store their stuff until they can find a new place. Drive them around to look at places. Help them paint their new place or clean their new place.

Offer practical help that allows them to do what they need to do a bit more conveniently. Offer a helping hand, don’t offer a handout.

[MrsDinero]

Can you buy them a trailer to live in?

My friends parents were in a similar situation.  They had no savings, blew through every dollar earned, kept losing jobs and getting evicted.  None of the kids (4 of them) were in a position to take them in.  TBH none of them wanted to because they knew if they moved in they would never leave.  So the kids all got together and purchased a trailer for them.  It wasn't fancy and I think cost about $20k, but they gave it to the parents, owned outright.  This way they have a place to live and always have a roof over their head.  The parents are responsible for everything else, renting land, maintenance, etc.

[Car Jack]

There are lots of people who stubborn themselves to death. She won't do paperwork to get help?  Fine, she can live in a refrigerator box.  My wife worked with a church "caring" mission.  They would help people who needed it.  Really good safety net for some people.  The rule was that they first had to help themselves.  Someone who wouldn't fill out forms, wouldn't accept food stamps, wouldn't accept help from government programs were left on their own. 

[Cassie]

Frankie’s Girl gave great advice. Suffering the consequences of their own actions will force them to make changes. The lawyer will do the paperwork and she just has to sign.  I have one of my 3 sons that I and his dad helped repeatedly and it did zero good. It is much harder to throw someone out of your house than to say no to begin with.

[Retire-Canada]

They keep getting evicted.
Please, give us some wisdom.

Why are they getting evicted? Failure to pay rent? Behaving badly? Both?

Assuming it's failure to pay rent...do they have enough money to pay rent and they just spend it on other stuff or are they just so low income rent/food/meds can't all be paid for out their income?

[neophyte]

It is much harder to throw someone out of your house than to say no to begin with.

It is much harder to throw someone out of your house than to say no to begin with.

It is much harder to throw someone out of your house than to say no to begin with.

What Cassie said.

[2Birds1Stone]

This is not your responsibility. Not "moving them in" does NOT make you a bad person.

If my SO decided to move in her crazy MIL and alcoholic brother we would wrap that relationship up very quickly.

[marty998]

This is not your responsibility. Not "moving them in" does NOT make you a bad person.

If my SO decided to move in her crazy MIL and alcoholic brother we would wrap that relationship up very quickly.

Her MIL is you mother...?  :)

[2Birds1Stone]

This is not your responsibility. Not "moving them in" does NOT make you a bad person.

If my SO decided to move in her crazy MIL and alcoholic brother we would wrap that relationship up very quickly.

Her MIL is you mother...?  :)

Yes. We're originally from West VA.

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[marty998]

This is not your responsibility. Not "moving them in" does NOT make you a bad person.

If my SO decided to move in her crazy MIL and alcoholic brother we would wrap that relationship up very quickly.

Her MIL is your mother...?  :)

Yes. We're originally from West VA.

There's a misunderstanding here... what does it matter where you're from?

I was curious if you were calling your own mother crazy in a roundabout way...

[2Birds1Stone]

This is not your responsibility. Not "moving them in" does NOT make you a bad person.

If my SO decided to move in her crazy MIL and alcoholic brother we would wrap that relationship up very quickly.

Her MIL is your mother...?  :)

Yes. We're originally from West VA.

There's a misunderstanding here... what does it matter where you're from?

I was curious if you were calling your own mother crazy in a roundabout way...

Certain parts of the country are more incestuous than others =D

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[marty998]

This is not your responsibility. Not "moving them in" does NOT make you a bad person.

If my SO decided to move in her crazy MIL and alcoholic brother we would wrap that relationship up very quickly.

Her MIL is your mother...?  :)

Yes. We're originally from West VA.

There's a misunderstanding here... what does it matter where you're from?

I was curious if you were calling your own mother crazy in a roundabout way...

Certain parts of the country are more incestuous than others =D

Yup, that's what I was afraid to ask aloud in polite company :)

[MrThatsDifferent]

Investigate co-dependents anonymous, that will help you and your partner find the strength you need. Otherwise you do nothing. If they get evicted, that’s on them. They’re adults. Your singular focus is to protect your immediate family.

[arob54600]

Thank you everyone for helping us wrap our heads around this.
About 4 years ago my MIL was foreclosed on, she had a $400 mortgage, so affordable, but stopped paying. Then she went to rent a house that was double the cost. 6 months ago she had to sign her whole tax return over to her landlord or get evicted. Her landlord sold to a new person a couple of months ago, a walk through could have sealed her fate, she is a hoarder, big time.

  Now I believe we are about a week away from her being homeless.

My mom mentioned that maybe she is hesitant to sign up for disability because she is afraid she would be put in a nursing home. (neither I nor my husband ever even considered that). I was hoping she could get a studio or one bedroom with that money, maybe we could supplement any extras like toiletries.

I don't know if I'm gonna get a straight answer on why she is getting thrown out. Could be non-payment, could be her hoarding, could be weed (we live in a non legal state). All I know is she has always had her mom and dad bailing her out when times were tough and they both passed away last year. She has no safety net and not a dollar to her name. But she does have TWO SISTERS and A COUSIN. ;)
Husband has no idea what to do, he is a gentle soul and just wants everyone to be happy, safe and secure. He loves his mom of course, but we both know moving her in would be a DARK CLOUD on our home, and now we have a baby to consider in 3 months time.
I will post again with an update once all the chips fall.
But for real thank you, we feel pretty heartless but neither of us feel good about letting her move in.

[Sibley]

Have you read the Millionaire Next Door? What your MIL is experiencing is a classic outcome of economic life support. She has never needed to be independent, and thus she isn't. If you provide money, or a home, you are just enabling her.

I strongly recommend that your husband go to therapy. When you've got someone like your MIL as a parent, there is a strong likelihood of some unhealthy dynamics having been ingrained in him growing up. A therapist can help him identify any of that and sort through it.

[AccidentalMiser]

No is an acceptable response. You don't have to make excuses or justify it.

No, you can't live with us.
No, we don't have any money to give you.
No, we won't give you a deposit for an apartment/cosign anything.
No, you can't just crash on our couch for a few days.

Well-said, Frankies Girl

This.  Times ten.  In Spades.

Do NOT enable people's bad behavior and life choices.  If you do, they'll be on your dime FOREVER. 

[TheGrimSqueaker]

There are lots of people who stubborn themselves to death. She won't do paperwork to get help?  Fine, she can live in a refrigerator box.  My wife worked with a church "caring" mission.  They would help people who needed it.  Really good safety net for some people.  The rule was that they first had to help themselves.  Someone who wouldn't fill out forms, wouldn't accept food stamps, wouldn't accept help from government programs were left on their own.

Part of the "stubborn themselves to death" behavior (I'm stealing that phrase) comes out of a firm belief that they can get the *exact* form of help or relief that they want, but only by rejecting any other forms of assistance. If someone decides that they want, say, to move in with an adult child or to receive cash from family members (which they subsequently mismanage), they refuse any other form of aid. They are willing and able to let their situation escalate to a crisis level because they believe that if the problem gets big enough the other person will be forced to give them exactly what they want.

[arob54600]

GrimSqueaker-
"They are willing and able to let their situation escalate to a crisis level because they believe that if the problem gets big enough the other person will be forced to give them exactly what they want."

I 100% believe that this is what is happening.   I did not even realize that until you wrote it.

[FIFoFum]

Hoarding is an incredibly difficult mental illness to treat & incredibly hazardous to the health of everyone living there - ESPECIALLY a baby.

It's good that you and your spouse are on the same page. If you feel guilty, just remind yourself that your responsibility is to keep your home safe for raising a baby.

[BTDretire]

Can you buy them a trailer to live in?

MrsDinero!
How dare you.

  The parents are responsible for everything else, renting land, maintenance, etc.

 Ya, right! I'm sure that's not a problem, things are going so smoothly already. /s/

 

[fredbear]

Hoarding is an incredibly difficult mental illness to treat & incredibly hazardous to the health of everyone living there - ESPECIALLY a baby.

It's good that you and your spouse are on the same page. If you feel guilty, just remind yourself that your responsibility is to keep your home safe for raising a baby.

I operated for a while as an ombudsman/enforcer for a large subsidized apartment complex.  We had several hoarders.  The legal situation is daft - Legal Aid wants to keep them there, the Health Department threatens to shut the complex if they stay, Fire Department demands abatement, some therapist or other claims "ADA," the hoarder "needs her stuff for her research."  But what FiFoFum says is on.

-- I calculated that a dense-packed hoarder apartment (what other kind is there?) is the equivalent of a single-family home wrt energy release in fire: peak output in the 2 GW (!) range.  It can get going so fast  and and so intense you have essentially no chance to get yourself and your baby out.
-- the hoarder apartments were a three-dimensional locus of infestation, in our case, roaches and bat-bugs (a distinction without a difference from bedbugs).  They invariably infected the apartments adjacent and across the hall.  Then it spread to apartments above and below.  Getting control of this is non-trivial and will involve exposing your baby to insecticide traces left on everything you and the hoarder own.
-- it stinks.
-- it is a source of endless drama as you "violate their rights" by cleaning up.