Author Topic: Metal Roof - This guy has to be making a shit load of dough  (Read 2961 times)

MrSal

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My neighbour just got a new roof and while I was expecting it to go fast, I never thought it would go THIS FAST.

It's a very simple roof about 1200 sq feet and only 2 valleys from the front porch ... the guys came in at 7,30 am and at 10 o'clock they were gone.

Total of 5 men ... so, about 12.5 labour/hours ...

Total amount charged? 5500 dollars.

I was astounded how fast it was since it was first time seeing putting one metal up... the guys just put some 1x2 to create airspace and some area to screw the panels to, and then I assume just did the metal sheets and some side flashing and details.

On my research I found metal sheets going for about 45$ for 12 feet... so most likely the materials on this job were what? 1500 maybe if that!

Even if the "owner was paying the workers 30$/hour, that's about only $360 in labor, leaving 3500$ in profit?

Can people more experienced in this area chime in? I was astounded on how fast it went! One morning, 5500$ ...


EDIT: I just checked and his metal panels have got to be classic rib style... im not familiar with metal roofs terminology but i understand there are no visible screws on a standing seam... this one has screws on the "ridges" ... by ridges i mean the top of the waving pattern ...
« Last Edit: July 13, 2018, 03:35:05 PM by MrSal »

snogirl

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Re: Metal Roof - This guy has to be making a shit load of dough
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2018, 03:35:44 PM »
Good for them. Sounds like they work as a team. Business Insurance, taxes, workmen's comp, trucks tools etc. They get it easy on this one as opposed to a a 6/12 50 square ripping off 2 layers of asphalt. Did they do good work? Fast and good isn't cheap.

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TheWifeHalf

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Re: Metal Roof - This guy has to be making a shit load of dough
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2018, 03:38:33 PM »
Dopes anyone know, do those metal roofs ever have to be painted?

drachma

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Re: Metal Roof - This guy has to be making a shit load of dough
« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2018, 03:43:32 PM »
Business Insurance, taxes, workmen's comp, trucks tools etc. They get it easy on this one as opposed to a a 6/12 50 square ripping off 2 layers of asphalt.

yeah I would say if your aim is to rip people off or make easy profits, roofing probably isn't the right game to get into XD

Not to say there aren't any shoddy or unscrupulous contractors trying to cut corners and make a buck. Just that even then it ain't easy!

MrSal

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Re: Metal Roof - This guy has to be making a shit load of dough
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2018, 03:45:37 PM »
Good for them. Sounds like they work as a team. Business Insurance, taxes, workmen's comp, trucks tools etc. They get it easy on this one as opposed to a a 6/12 50 square ripping off 2 layers of asphalt. Did they do good work? Fast and good isn't cheap.

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I dont think they pay taxes... they were Amish. (What I heard around here it's that they get tax breaks or exemption because of religion? not sure if true)

And with  metal roofs you don't need to take the shingles off. Maybe it seems advantageous to focus on metal roofing only? Less labor, higher margins... it seems that would be the smart thing to specialize in metal roofing.

Shingle roofing I agree it seems like a pain. My MIL just redid hers, and she paid about the same, and it was 1900$ in materials and the rest was labour... but the guys were there 4 full days and it included the replacement of 5-6 squares of the plywood underneath and also the removal of the previous shingles of course.

v8rx7guy

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Re: Metal Roof - This guy has to be making a shit load of dough
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2018, 04:00:25 PM »
I think you may be underestimating the roof surface area.  Is it really a 900 square foot home?  Don't forget you need to take into consideration roof pitch and overhang into your square footage calculation.  The 1x2's and screws are not free. 

Also, just because they were there for 2.5 hours, doesn't mean that's all the job took.  There is probably at least an hour or two of loading up and travel for each of the workers  before you even saw them show up.  Also remember all of the time beforehand required for quoting, material procurement, scheduling etc.  So there's probably another 10 hours of labor.  And then there's taxes, which I'm not sure where you are, but even if they don't pay income taxes, they still are likely paying taxes on the materials.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2018, 05:41:47 PM by v8rx7guy »

nwhiker

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Re: Metal Roof - This guy has to be making a shit load of dough
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2018, 05:08:35 PM »
Yeah the burdened cost of labor is going to be higher plus you got supplies to buy other than the roofing itself plus you have got to factor in waste. Then you have general business overhead.

A quick search says that an average profit margin for a roofer is 2.8% and an excellent margin would be 8%. So profits could be in somewhere between $154 - $440.

TheWifeHalf

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Re: Metal Roof - This guy has to be making a shit load of dough
« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2018, 09:33:12 PM »
I dont think they pay taxes... they were Amish. (What I heard around here it's that they get tax breaks or exemption because of religion? not sure if true)

And with  metal roofs you don't need to take the shingles off. Maybe it seems advantageous to focus on metal roofing only? Less labor, higher margins... it seems that would be the smart thing to specialize in metal roofing.

Shingle roofing I agree it seems like a pain. My MIL just redid hers, and she paid about the same, and it was 1900$ in materials and the rest was labour... but the guys were there 4 full days and it included the replacement of 5-6 squares of the plywood underneath and also the removal of the previous shingles of course.

When I read your first post, I thought of the house around the corner that had a pole barn built. That thing went up fast and those guys WORKED. They were Amish.
I was actually going to post "Are they Amish?"

Retire-Canada

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Re: Metal Roof - This guy has to be making a shit load of dough
« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2018, 10:00:25 PM »
Can people more experienced in this area chime in? I was astounded on how fast it went! One morning, 5500$ ...

You are overlooking a ton of business costs with your analysis. Don't run out and start a metal roofing business. ;)

simplified

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Re: Metal Roof - This guy has to be making a shit load of dough
« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2018, 10:30:51 PM »
The Amish pay all the taxes except Social Security and Medicare. They don't collect social security and Medicare benefits either. They don't believe in nanny state, instead depend on family and community.

teen persuasion

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Re: Metal Roof - This guy has to be making a shit load of dough
« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2018, 05:51:23 PM »
Whoa, wait - they didn't tear off the shingles first? They just put down furring strips on top of the shingles and screwed down the metal roofing on that?  That's not the approved method.  No wonder they were so fast.

We've got metal roofs on our house and garage.  DH did the garage himself, but learned the hard way how slippery they are.  When the 2 storey part of the house needed a new roof, I insisted we hire someone to do it for safety reasons.  We had an Amish crew install it.  They did a full tear-off, checked the underlayment to make sure it was sound everywhere, made repairs to areas that needed them (valleys, cornice returns, etc.), put down ice barrier...they did a thorough job.  I believe it was ~$6400, we have a large old farmhouse with additions, so they had valleys between the gable-end and gable-front parts of the house, and a hip roof porch to do (i.e., not just a simple rectangular roof).

chasesfish

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Re: Metal Roof - This guy has to be making a shit load of dough
« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2018, 05:38:16 AM »
I've provided financing to roofing companies, their labor is a LOT more expensive than your estimates.

Usually the company pays an independent contractor for the install based on the job.  That independent contractor (usually the lead guy/gal on a 2-4 person crew) then has to pay for all their safety equipment, trucks, insurance, and his personal cut plus the cost of the 3 person crew).   This, along with framing, are probably two of the toughest jobs in residential construction and thus get paid the most.

The re-roofing crews are specifically the most expensive, as an owner once told me "the homeowner doesn't want his plants around the hoes damaged and doesn't tolerate the crew taking a leak/dump in their back yard.   If you're roofing a new home, that stuff doesn't matter because you're early enough on the job"

I promise its not as lucrative as you think, but you can always go open a roofing company

partdopy

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Re: Metal Roof - This guy has to be making a shit load of dough
« Reply #12 on: July 15, 2018, 12:48:11 PM »
I did roofing in Florida for a bit after high school and before I decided to go to college.

Not amazingly knowledgeable, but I know 30/hr per roofer isn't out of the ordinary (we worked by the square rather than hour).  Then you have to pay our foreman, gas/insurance/payment on our full size crew cab, payment for our dump trailer, insurance, pay is hourly to clean up and drive to/from job, etc...

Well managed roofing companies do very well, but that goes for all industries

chasesfish

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Re: Metal Roof - This guy has to be making a shit load of dough
« Reply #13 on: July 15, 2018, 02:16:05 PM »

Well managed roofing companies do very well, but that goes for all industries

^  This.

I've found the most profitable ones tend to work for the big home builders.  They pay fairly for people who deliver a roof on time.

YttriumNitrate

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Re: Metal Roof - This guy has to be making a shit load of dough
« Reply #14 on: July 15, 2018, 02:21:18 PM »
Dopes anyone know, do those metal roofs ever have to be painted?

No, they don't. About 8 years ago I put a metal roof on my house and it still looks as good as the day it was put on. Here's what I used:
https://www.menards.com/main/building-materials/roofing-soffits-gutters/metal-roofing/cut-to-length-premium-pro-snap-steel-panel/forestgreen1559757-41/p-1444448602594-c-5815.htm?tid=-3447840583759342472&ipos=1

MayDay

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Re: Metal Roof - This guy has to be making a shit load of dough
« Reply #15 on: July 15, 2018, 02:39:15 PM »
Dopes anyone know, do those metal roofs ever have to be painted?

No, they don't. About 8 years ago I put a metal roof on my house and it still looks as good as the day it was put on. Here's what I used:
https://www.menards.com/main/building-materials/roofing-soffits-gutters/metal-roofing/cut-to-length-premium-pro-snap-steel-panel/forestgreen1559757-41/p-1444448602594-c-5815.htm?tid=-3447840583759342472&ipos=1

The coating on a metal roof is the same as any other architectural coating. It won't last forever but it might last as long as the roof (50 years). Otoh if it is a crappy coating it may cause the roof to fail prematurely.

A 50 year coating is a fluoropolymer and it is $$$$.

I work in architectural coatings but not roofs specifically,so I can't say what is common on roofs, but if you ask for the coating warranty a fluoropolymer will be something like Delta E of less then 5 after 10 years.


YttriumNitrate

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Re: Metal Roof - This guy has to be making a shit load of dough
« Reply #16 on: July 16, 2018, 05:39:21 AM »
The coating on a metal roof is the same as any other architectural coating. It won't last forever but it might last as long as the roof (50 years). Otoh if it is a crappy coating it may cause the roof to fail prematurely.
A 50 year coating is a fluoropolymer and it is $$$$.
I work in architectural coatings but not roofs specifically,so I can't say what is common on roofs, but if you ask for the coating warranty a fluoropolymer will be something like Delta E of less then 5 after 10 years.

Interesting, I did some digging and it looks like Ceram-a-star 1050 is the coating on my roof. It's not a fluoropolymer, so any idea how long it might last?

https://coilcoatings.akzonobel.com/coil/products/ceram-a-star
https://de5df1f01d4c61c87d8b-8e9db4507d0db001ce4ca6d1d5174324.ssl.cf3.rackcdn.com/20170915-ceram-a-star-1050-brochure_0.pdf
https://de5df1f01d4c61c87d8b-8e9db4507d0db001ce4ca6d1d5174324.ssl.cf3.rackcdn.com/20170915-ceram-a-star-1050-qualities-of-sheet_0.pdf
https://de5df1f01d4c61c87d8b-8e9db4507d0db001ce4ca6d1d5174324.ssl.cf3.rackcdn.com/20170817-ceram-a-star-1050.pdf
« Last Edit: July 16, 2018, 09:26:45 AM by YttriumNitrate »

MrSal

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Re: Metal Roof - This guy has to be making a shit load of dough
« Reply #17 on: July 16, 2018, 09:01:57 AM »
I think you may be underestimating the roof surface area.  Is it really a 900 square foot home?  Don't forget you need to take into consideration roof pitch and overhang into your square footage calculation.  The 1x2's and screws are not free. 

Also, just because they were there for 2.5 hours, doesn't mean that's all the job took.  There is probably at least an hour or two of loading up and travel for each of the workers  before you even saw them show up.  Also remember all of the time beforehand required for quoting, material procurement, scheduling etc.  So there's probably another 10 hours of labor.  And then there's taxes, which I'm not sure where you are, but even if they don't pay income taxes, they still are likely paying taxes on the materials.

Its about 1100 sq ft with a very low pitch... I mean if I calculate the hypotenus would probably get a more correct area...

I just calculated so it's about 1260 sq ft of roof area ... on a 45x25 ish house... pitch is low... about 4-5 feet attic height to the peak.



MrSal

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Re: Metal Roof - This guy has to be making a shit load of dough
« Reply #18 on: July 16, 2018, 09:10:40 AM »
I've provided financing to roofing companies, their labor is a LOT more expensive than your estimates.

Usually the company pays an independent contractor for the install based on the job.  That independent contractor (usually the lead guy/gal on a 2-4 person crew) then has to pay for all their safety equipment, trucks, insurance, and his personal cut plus the cost of the 3 person crew).   This, along with framing, are probably two of the toughest jobs in residential construction and thus get paid the most.

The re-roofing crews are specifically the most expensive, as an owner once told me "the homeowner doesn't want his plants around the hoes damaged and doesn't tolerate the crew taking a leak/dump in their back yard.   If you're roofing a new home, that stuff doesn't matter because you're early enough on the job"

I promise its not as lucrative as you think, but you can always go open a roofing company

This guy im sure does not hire independent contractors. It';s a small town around here and again you talk to the contractor directly pretty much.

I'm not saying that the roofing sector in general is that lucrative - although i doubt the margins that were stated here of only 3% profit margin that is a profit margin of a wholesaler retailer. I couldn't even bother for a 3% profit margin on a SME unless we are talking about several hunderd millions of turnover.

I was just astonished on how simple and fast this particular job was, and specialize just in this type of installation - metal and simple roofs.

I agree that it's labour intensive - in this case it wasn't. Shingles and such no thanks. I saw my MIL replace hers, and she paid the same amount roughly for a bigger house and the guys had to remove the old shingles... remove squares of rotten plywood... install new plywood about 5-8 squares... lay down the roofing felt and other water proofing things... and then lay the shingles... it was 4-5 days of intense labour - they were also amish btw.

These guys were done in 2-3 hours!

I am sure once I have to replace my roof, I will go with metal, and from what I have seen, it does not seem super duper hard for a simple roof. I think I'll do it myself once time comes.


Regarding durability, I would love to have a tile roof since those last way more than even metal roofs! But here in the States they are super expensive it's ridiculous - as comparison back where I'm from (Portugal and Spain) - the cost of clay roof tiles is much cheaper! The most expensive clay tile is about 1.35 dollars per sq ft for material and this is from a retailer like Lowes - Im sure if I go to something more specialized I would find better prices :) )! not to mention the structure of my current home, I doubt it could handle all the weight from a clay tile roof!
« Last Edit: July 16, 2018, 09:17:43 AM by MrSal »

bacchi

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Re: Metal Roof - This guy has to be making a shit load of dough
« Reply #19 on: July 16, 2018, 09:33:41 AM »
Wait, they didn't install any underlayment? Just the purlins and then panels?

MrSal

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Re: Metal Roof - This guy has to be making a shit load of dough
« Reply #20 on: July 16, 2018, 12:37:12 PM »
Wait, they didn't install any underlayment? Just the purlins and then panels?

Yes just the wood furring strips and the metal panels. I dont think there's a problem with that since underneath there is the old shingle roof and whatever underlayment under those old shingles.