Author Topic: metal roof instead of shingles?  (Read 8867 times)

DeltaBond

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metal roof instead of shingles?
« on: July 31, 2015, 08:41:16 AM »
Does anyone have a metal roof on their home, and do you feel its better than shingles?
« Last Edit: July 31, 2015, 01:58:11 PM by DeltaBond »

acroy

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Re: metal roof instead of shingles?
« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2015, 09:01:59 AM »
MMM does, and he loves it :)
When my shingle roof got ruined by hail, I tried hard to get metal roof put on. however I found:
- very few local experienced local metal roofers
- local industrial roofers were not interested in residential
- obtaining supplies for DIY proved to be very difficult since quantities were so small.
- the proposition of DIY freaked out my home insurance co; they would not insure a house roofed by a non-pro.

good luck!!

DeltaBond

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Re: metal roof instead of shingles?
« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2015, 09:06:39 AM »
The proposition of a DIY metal roof was not something your homeowners insurance would cover, how would they know if you did it vs a company?

epipenguin

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Re: metal roof instead of shingles?
« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2015, 09:12:57 AM »
I do. I live in FL, and shingles blow off roofs very easily in hurricanes. Also, according to a University of Florida study that I read, white metal roofs are much better at reflecting heat (and thus keeping the house cooler) than shingles. So, win-win. Metal roofs have become quite popular around here, so it was easy to find a contractor, although the estimates I got varied widely.

hodedofome

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Re: metal roof instead of shingles?
« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2015, 09:22:46 AM »
MMM does, and he loves it :)
When my shingle roof got ruined by hail, I tried hard to get metal roof put on. however I found:
- very few local experienced local metal roofers
- local industrial roofers were not interested in residential
- obtaining supplies for DIY proved to be very difficult since quantities were so small.
- the proposition of DIY freaked out my home insurance co; they would not insure a house roofed by a non-pro.

good luck!!

I've seen some insurance companies that are ok with DIY. They may inspect it afterwards however.

Maybe up in Dallas it's hard to find a metal roof contractor, but south of that shouldn't be an issue. Austin, San Antonio and the Hill Country should be easy.

partgypsy

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Re: metal roof instead of shingles?
« Reply #5 on: July 31, 2015, 09:25:17 AM »
I really wanted to. Nice to have the idea closest to a lifetime roof, it is lighter, and depending on color reflects heat better, etc. and found a reputable installer but it was going to be double (20K) to replace the roof, just wasn't in the budget especially for a house our size (our original mortgage was 70K). 
If we did it ourselves, it would have to be the kind with exposed seams. From what I read they do not have a lifespan much more than a regular asphalt roof. So we went with asphalt.

DeltaBond

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Re: metal roof instead of shingles?
« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2015, 09:27:55 AM »
Hmm, this is interesting.  I guess first find out if my insurance covers DIY, then see if it is affordable in my area.  I'm not paying $20K for a roof.

I'm curious, too, has anyone with a metal roof had any problems with it?

Syonyk

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Re: metal roof instead of shingles?
« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2015, 09:40:22 AM »
I plan to have one when we build, mostly for fire resistance reasons - we'll be in an area that is fire prone, and having the additional resistance of a metal roof is important to us.

They seem like a good option for a lot of areas.

waffle

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Re: metal roof instead of shingles?
« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2015, 10:41:38 AM »
Does anyone know what drives the cost up so much? Is it the cost of materials? I've installed a few metal roofs (barns and sheds) I don't know if they are different on houses, but once the first row is installed perfectly the rest goes on incredibly quick and easy, so I have a hard time seeing why it would be double the cost. Perhaps roofing companies are just gouging because of the premium perception? I've also done a few roofs with standard 3 tab shingles, and I would much rather do a metal roof if I was DIY-ing it.

Syonyk

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Re: metal roof instead of shingles?
« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2015, 10:45:00 AM »
It's not terribly common in most areas, so people aren't good at it.

I expect it would be cheaper in wildfire prone areas where they're common.

Rosy

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Re: metal roof instead of shingles?
« Reply #10 on: July 31, 2015, 11:25:46 AM »
I do. I live in FL, and shingles blow off roofs very easily in hurricanes. Also, according to a University of Florida study that I read, white metal roofs are much better at reflecting heat (and thus keeping the house cooler) than shingles. So, win-win. Metal roofs have become quite popular around here, so it was easy to find a contractor, although the estimates I got varied widely.

Our insurance company insisted we needed to replace our shingle roof due to it's age, although we never had an issue - no shingles falling off or anything. So we went without insurance for over a year (by choice) and then paid cash for it.

+1 - best decision we ever made. In our area however, it took a while to find a contractor that would do residential, but that was five years ago and since it has become more popular the prices went down. He didn't have the white available at the time so we went with blue - looks great.

We were thrilled with our contractor, it was a one or two day installation, they had a large crew that worked like an assembly line. The city inspector that came by to do the final check said he wished he had a metal roof.

So by all means go for it.

MillenialMustache

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Re: metal roof instead of shingles?
« Reply #11 on: July 31, 2015, 01:28:38 PM »
We did a DIY metal roof. We bought from a local supply company that sells to contractors. We pulled a permit and then it was inspected by the city when we finished. The insurance never questioned anything - approval from the city and a new wind mit is all they wanted. It cost about $6,000 and took several months. Several previous months were spent watching millions (or it seemed like it!) of videos on YouTube. We love it. It has been over a year and it looks great. Our A/C costs went down too. Great for hurricanes - we live in FL.

Shinplaster

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Re: metal roof instead of shingles?
« Reply #12 on: July 31, 2015, 01:34:34 PM »
I'm curious, too, has anyone with a metal roof had any problems with it?

We don't have one, but next door put one on last fall.  If you live in snow country, and have neighbours with roofs 6 feet from yours, please get an adequate number of avalanche clips installed.

Our neighbours didn't instal any, except near their front door, and we ended up with the entire east side's worth of snow from their roof crashing onto our house.  We thought a car had driven into our house - startled the hell out of us.  Luckily no major damage (bent eavestrough, damaged sump pump discharge pipe), but if someone had been under that slide, they would have been seriously injured.   Luckily we are on good terms with the neighbours, and it was rectified immediately. 

bacchi

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Re: metal roof instead of shingles?
« Reply #13 on: July 31, 2015, 01:47:08 PM »
Yes, sliding snow can also shear any exhaust pipes clean off.

Basenji

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Re: metal roof instead of shingles?
« Reply #14 on: July 31, 2015, 01:59:46 PM »
Following.

MRL

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Re: metal roof instead of shingles?
« Reply #15 on: August 01, 2015, 01:48:22 AM »
Yes, I actually just registered so I could tell you how. I've been meaning to, but this gave me an excuse to quit reading and start participating.

We wanted a metal roof, but I found it hard to find metal roofers here in Houston willing to do such a small job. Those I did find, quoted me $300, $380, $500 and up per square. So, I learned how to do it myself, used better materials than the roofers had quoted, and saved a bunch.

I can get unwrapped 30 yr shingles for $51 a square, add about $7 more for tar paper and nails.  Let's call the tear off and disposal $10 a square. Another dollar or two for penetrations and edge.  Let's say $75 a square before labor is the best I could hope to do. If you don't have a salvage shingle place, plan on $100 a square.

An uninsured roofer will do the job with 25 yr shingles for $130 a square or 30 yr for $155 a sq

I bought my 26 guage galvalume R panel roofing for $1.20 a linear foot. The screws cost me $20 a bag of 250, and stitch screws were $25. I went with expensive underpayment that resembles plastic tarp material mated to tyvec - that was $80 or so a roll that covers about 8 squares. I used 1x4 cedar runners to screw to, every 3 feet (horizontal) that costs about a buck each, combined with a huge box of screws $40. The roof/ridge cap was $3 a foot and valley if you need it is $5 a foot

Here's how I did it - this is an allowed (and recommended by city inspector ) in my area - it may not work as well in colder climates

First, I removed the outer 8 inches of shingles all the way around my house, then I rolled out GAF felt buster underpayment and tacked it down with cap nails. Then I layed a course of 1x6 cedar fence pickets all the way around the perimeter of the house. These are screwed down every 8-10 inches. Drip edge goes over this.
Next, using 1x4 pickets, and 3 foot long spacer boards (important) to keep parallel I progressed all the way around the house.  These are also screwed down with many 2 inch screws - through the cedar, shingle, into the wood...  This took a day, mostly by myself. Note that I did not have to remove all the shingles!  Then it's as simple as waiting for a day with almost NO wind and screwing down the panels. Panels get screwed down in 6 places at each runner. Make yourself a template so you can keep the screws in straight lines. It really looks a lot better if you keep everything in tight lines. Panels are laid out in a specific way, and must be perfectly perpendicular - otherwise you will get further and further off.  Start with 1 or 2 screws at the the panel, and lay out a few to check for square. If your first 3 panels don't take an hour, you are incredibly lucky. Once you have a side square, the panels go incredibly fast.

Cutting for me was easiest flipping the panel over, marking with a sharpee and cutting with an angle grinder. I tried circular saw blades and other things, but grinder worked best for me. Many of your cuts will be under the roof cap anyway. There will be lots of waste - the pros seem to be able to flip longer panels over, and use for opposite corners - but we aren't looking to become pros here, just save some dough, right? I found it easiest to do most cutting on the ground on sawhorses. These panels have a lip that overlaps the previous panel, so there is only one correct bottom on any given piece. Even though you measure twice, visualize things, and try to be careful, you will cut the wrong corner off a few times - these pieces ended up leaning against what I called the wall of shame, and were used as shorter pieces when I got to where I needed them.

Moving along, on each line where you have your fasteners, you will use stitch screws to connect each panel to the next one. Then a roof cap is stitch screwed to each of the raised parts of panels it overlaps.

Any penetrations require special boots - I found a few standard sizes at a steel shop, but Amazon prime was my friend here - cheaper, and they actually had everything I needed 2 days later.  The boots get a lot of stitch screws all the way around.

I spent about $4500 for everything I needed to do our bungalow and garage apartment. About 30 squares, but remember there is more waste.  Have a trailer handy if you have a hip roof, because you will end up with 100 3 foot triangles of metal. If it were a pro doing it, there might be savings of $500 or so on the materials with the lower amount of waste he would have created. On simple roofs, you could have almost no cutting or waste as many of the rolling mills can cut to order size.

Buy a few extras for fuck ups. I sold my extras on Craigslist for $1 a ft, and they were out of my yard an hour after posting

If you measure everything, Mueller will make a diagram for you for free...then you can shop around and discover that they are not the best price. (My materials were over 11k there, and that leaves out wood, penetrations and a few other things. but that little map was very very helpful)

So - about $150 a square done my way, not including labor.

The 5/8 thick space between the old roof and the new roof provides some insulation. Our electric has been lower, but I'm unsure by exactly how much.

P.s. Gloves - every time you touch the edge of the metal, wear them. I can't stress this enough.
Safety Glasses - always a good idea
Slightest threat of moisture - get down, or you'll slide off

I may have bored or lost yall, but I'd be happy to try and answer any questions you might have.

Greg

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Re: metal roof instead of shingles?
« Reply #16 on: August 01, 2015, 09:43:26 AM »
I installed a standing-seam "galvalume" metal roof on my home (I'm a designer and builder) in 2005/6 and would recommend it.  For a few reasons.  In no particular order:

It's lighter. This is important on older homes with undersized rafters.  Also important for earthquake areas.  I can lift a 22' x 16" panel with one hand.

It's more energy efficient.  Even darker colors absorb less heat because the material is thinner than asphalt shingles.

Highly flame-resistant.  I wouldn't use anything else in fire country.  Asphalt shingles... ever watched tar-soaked anything burn?

Cleaner.  Debris often rinses off in rain given enough slope.  Won't support moss growth.

Easier to clean, and won't be harmed by pressure washing.

Made from recycled materials, scrap is recyclable.

Easy to install, snips and a screw gun are the basic tools.

 Goes on faster.

Looks great, much better than fake shingles.

Will often outlast any other roofing.

One reason metal roofs are more expensive is the materials cost about 3x that of comp roofing, last time I checked.  The other is labor and skill.  Metal roofing takes a more careful hand to start lining things up correctly, and there's little room for errors.  With shingles you can adjust the rows as you go (if you bother) and if a shingle panel is cut wrong set it aside and grab the next one.  With metal your cuts have to be pretty accurate, especially if your materials are tightly measured.

NV Teacher

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Re: metal roof instead of shingles?
« Reply #17 on: August 01, 2015, 08:13:50 PM »
My dad put one on our house over 30 years ago and it's wonderful.  We get a lot of snow in the winter and it comes right off clean as a whistle.  It sure beats someone having to climb up and shovel the roof.

Rural

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Re: metal roof instead of shingles?
« Reply #18 on: August 02, 2015, 05:12:16 AM »
+1 to the metal. We put ours on ourselves, and this is one of the few things in our house build where I can say "we" did it and mean it. I'm a very petite woman, and most of the house build was just beyond me, but handling 16' panels was no problem for me.


We mapped out the roof and ordered pieces sized as we needed from the local manufacturer, so no cutting, even (this for a very simple roof; they wouldn't have done angle cuts, but we chose to design without any valleys for simplicity and durability).


I'd recommend the fancy underlayment, too. It costs more per roll than tar paper, but not much, if any, more more per square.


Total time for putting the metal on 2000 square feet was not more than six hours,and most of that was fussing around being sure the first panel was lined up right (critical).


I'll second the gloves. Wear them if you like having hands.

Greg

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Re: metal roof instead of shingles?
« Reply #19 on: August 04, 2015, 09:59:40 AM »
I'll second the gloves. Wear them if you like having hands.

Goes without saying I think.  When I was putting the finishing touches on my roof, it started to rain.  Made the 3/12 slope I was working on suddenly slippery and down I went.  To stop myself from sliding off the roof, I grabbed the nearest edge.  Unfortunately for me it was a freshly cut 1" turned-up metal panel edge at the roof edge.  It hurt.

acroy

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Re: metal roof instead of shingles?
« Reply #20 on: August 04, 2015, 12:40:46 PM »
The proposition of a DIY metal roof was not something your homeowners insurance would cover, how would they know if you did it vs a company?
The neighborhood got hit by baseball sized hail so I called out the insurance adjuster (we had $24k total damage iirc, about 50% of which was the roof). The insurance adjuster happily wrote off the roof, then spazzed out when I mentioned I'd likely do it myself. They want a 'licensed, bonded' roofer or no-go... And now they knew my roof was damaged. I was stuck. I understand their position: they don't want to be paying for water damage etc from shoddy DIY.

The only way around it would have been to not file a claim from the hail storm.

Greg

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Re: metal roof instead of shingles?
« Reply #21 on: August 04, 2015, 10:00:34 PM »
People build their own homes and get insurance all the time.  You could get it inspected I suppose to make them happy but I think it's probably illegal to require you to hire someone to fix it.  Would be a good question for your state's insurance commissioner.

The proposition of a DIY metal roof was not something your homeowners insurance would cover, how would they know if you did it vs a company?
The neighborhood got hit by baseball sized hail so I called out the insurance adjuster (we had $24k total damage iirc, about 50% of which was the roof). The insurance adjuster happily wrote off the roof, then spazzed out when I mentioned I'd likely do it myself. They want a 'licensed, bonded' roofer or no-go... And now they knew my roof was damaged. I was stuck. I understand their position: they don't want to be paying for water damage etc from shoddy DIY.

The only way around it would have been to not file a claim from the hail storm.

DeltaBond

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Re: metal roof instead of shingles?
« Reply #22 on: August 05, 2015, 05:08:53 AM »
My insurance agent said there is no problem with a DIY roof, you just can't file an insurance claim on an improperly installed roof.  So just be sure to follow the manufacture's specs on the roofing materials.

kendallf

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Re: metal roof instead of shingles?
« Reply #23 on: August 05, 2015, 12:15:27 PM »
I've done both our current house and our old house within the last two years.  I put 5v mill finish (silver galvanized finish, exposed screws) on both.  I permitted both and our homeowner's insurance had no problem with either.  Materials costs were in line with shingle costs (about $4k all told for our last one, 26 square; this included metal, wind turbines, boots, new fascia board, plywood, synthetic underlayment, screws, nails, etc.)

I used to be a roofer, and IMO the metal is faster and easier to put on than shingles in many ways.  My brother and I put all of the panels on one house this past February in a day and a half, in the rain.  The mill I ordered from delivered the panels pre-cut, except for valleys obviously.  I pre-drill the holes for screws on the ground, with the panels upside down and stacked about 5 deep.  Leave the valley panels undrilled, rough cut on the roof, then strike lines across from the pre-drilled panels. 

Basic hand tools are all that's required; I did have a power shear thanks to my brother that saved a bunch of time when cutting valley pieces, but you can do it with snips also. 

Here's a pic of the most recent one:

IMG_20150617_191203674

enigmaT120

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Re: metal roof instead of shingles?
« Reply #24 on: August 05, 2015, 01:09:15 PM »
Kendalf, how hard was it to get the holes cut perfectly for the vents and stuff on that roof? 

MoonShadow

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Re: metal roof instead of shingles?
« Reply #25 on: August 05, 2015, 01:11:12 PM »
The first home I ever owned had a raised metal chine roof, and I miss it.

jba302

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Re: metal roof instead of shingles?
« Reply #26 on: August 05, 2015, 01:14:54 PM »
My insurance agent said there is no problem with a DIY roof, you just can't file an insurance claim on an improperly installed roof.  So just be sure to follow the manufacture's specs on the roofing materials.

This is the accurate statement for insurance claims. I had no problems paying for DIY work (except for the surgeon who thought his surgery billing rate was acceptable for his DIY house painting activities...). I'm not aware of any exclusions for repairs either. 2 issues come to mind -

1. City permit requirements, which could kick you in the ass for a big diy job without going through the proper channels.

2. As Delta mentioned, the subsequent problems that could come with DIY. I'm hypothesizing a situation when you do a full DIY roof, some seals are incorrect, and your decking rots. Next minor wind storm rips the shit out of the roof and this is denied for improper installation and they would terminate your policy.

kendallf

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Re: metal roof instead of shingles?
« Reply #27 on: August 05, 2015, 01:24:50 PM »
Kendalf, how hard was it to get the holes cut perfectly for the vents and stuff on that roof?

It's not hard.  The panels are 2' wide; you lay the panel  adjacent to the vent, mark the vertical location, then measure over from the edge of the adjoining panel for the horizontal location.  The pipe boots cover small inaccuracies.  For the turbines, you basically just cut a hole in the full length panel that roughly matches the hole in the plywood (mine were square..), install the turbine, and overlap the turbine with another panel with a circular hole cut in it.

This brings up one thing I don't like about the common installation of pipe boots on metal; they are just placed over the metal and are dependent on a rubber gasket and lots of silicone caulk to seal.  If I were doing a "lifetime" roof I would use the old style lead boots, cut the panel at the pipe and use another panel to overlap the boot (the way I did on the turbines).