Mustachian DUI???

[Askel]

Not only might this be a good opportunity for your husband to reconsider his relationship with alchohol, but also his relationship with the car. 

I noticed you live in LA.  I had the privelege of spending a summer there and it is a seriously underrated bike town.  I have no idea why you'd even own a car there as driving is a complete nightmare.

Tons of pleasant shortcuts through suburbs, some pretty OK bike infrasturcture, and a seriously underutilized public transportation system that supports multimodal trips. 

[FireHiker]

I don't have advice on how to handle the DUI, but I couldn't read this without offering support. My father was an alcoholic (although he was adamant and not drinking and driving, thank goodness), and my XH had a different substance issue. Leaving my first marriage was hard (we had one young child) but the best decision I ever made. Amazingly, my XH has been mostly clean for several years now, but I learned both with him and with my dad, that you can't make a person change or get help. Sometimes they really have to hit rock bottom before they can make that decision successfully. Sometimes they never do.

If you are worried about your children's safety, that has to be the top priority, above all else. I'm very sorry you're having to deal with this.

[ShoulderThingThatGoesUp]

I worry in a divorce with shared custody, he'd be more likely to drive with your kids in the car.

[charis]

I worry in a divorce with shared custody, he'd be more likely to drive with your kids in the car.

Are you supposed to stay married to someone that you don't want to be because the children might get hurt when they are not with you?  I think this is a valid and compelling concern, but how awful to live like that?

[ShoulderThingThatGoesUp]

I worry in a divorce with shared custody, he'd be more likely to drive with your kids in the car.

Are you supposed to stay married to someone that you don't want to be because the children might get hurt when they are not with you?  I think this is a valid and compelling concern, but how awful to live like that?

It's an awful thing to have to worry about, I agree. Maybe if continued custody could be premised on not owning a car and not having a driver's license, but once something is in divorce court it's not up to you.

[LifeHappens]

This is a single incident in the context of 2017, but not in the context of our marriage. He's had other incidents with alcohol, this is just the most dramatic - no DUI before this, but some very dramatic/aggressive fights (with me and others) have resulted from him drinking. There was the phone throwing incident of Spring 2010 (maybe that was 2009, not sure), the time someone accidentally broke a bottle by him and he took it as a threat and was ready to beat up the guy in Oct 2010, the time he got wasted on my company's annual trip in Dec 2010, the big blow up fight in Oct 2014 which resulted in him quitting drinking for 4 or 6 months, and now this.

Most of the time, he can have "just a beer" or a couple, and be fine. But every now and then, shit hits the fan.

I'm so sorry for what you and your children are going through.

I pulled this quote because I was in a relationship with someone like this for several years. Most of the time things were fine, but it could go off the rails at any time. And it did get worse over the years. I reached a point where I couldn't tolerate it anymore and I left. That was 10 years ago. As far as I know, his behavior has not changed to this day.

Unless your husband is willing to undergo serious treatment and change his behavior, this is not a reasonable situation for you or your children. Again, I'm sorry.

[Acastus]

The low cost solution is for your hubby to not get convicted or plea down to the lowest possible offense. Loss of license or imprisonment will be financially debilitating to your family. DUI will make insurance outrageous, like 5x, assuming he gets to keep his license. Up front legal costs may be several $ thousand, but they are worth it compared to the potential back end penalties. This is the time to hire a pro.

I am assuming you want to keep the guy. Maybe you need to save that decision for a week.

[Thinkum]

I don't have advice on how to handle the DUI, but I couldn't read this without offering support. My father was an alcoholic (although he was adamant and not drinking and driving, thank goodness), and my XH had a different substance issue. Leaving my first marriage was hard (we had one young child) but the best decision I ever made. Amazingly, my XH has been mostly clean for several years now, but I learned both with him and with my dad, that you can't make a person change or get help. Sometimes they really have to hit rock bottom before they can make that decision successfully. Sometimes they never do.

If you are worried about your children's safety, that has to be the top priority, above all else. I'm very sorry you're having to deal with this.

This is something I too have experienced as my father was an alcoholic and substance abuser. Kaizen, it sounds like your husband has a history of alcohol abuse and that is not something that will go away easily. As FireHiker said, he has to want it and seriously PUT IN THE WORK to fix himself. I see alcoholism as a type of disease, since it is almost out of the person's control. The part that really strikes me as a child of an alcoholic, is that you should think of your children first. Not of splitting your loot, not of breaking up a family, but instead of protecting your children from seeing their father and you go through the stress and emotional turmoil of his actions. I am sorry and I wish you luck in dealing with all this as it is not an easy road to travel. I am glad to hear you have family and I'm sure friends to rely on.

[aetheldrea]

When I saw the title of your thread, my first thought was that a true Mustachian DUI would be one after which the offender gets a bike and never drives a car again. Honestly, this would be best possible outcome, for him to never get behind the wheel again, ever. Lucky he didn't hurt anyone, this time. The car being totalled might be a blessing in disguise.

Not trying to make light of your situation. My 2 1/2 year old son was killed 9 years ago by a drunk driver who drove up onto a sidewalk one afternoon. My wife was pulling him in a wagon. In a photo in the newspaper of the crash scene, I noticed his shoes lying on the ground. There would have been no reason to remove his shoes at the site, that was just how hard the pickup truck hit him, literally knocked him out of his shoes. Not that easy to think of worse things that could happen to me, but being the driver of that vehicle would be one.

[OurTown]

Hey Kaizen,

I don't know if I am considered the Mustachian Town Drunk (recovering) around these parts (I know I haven't run across anyone else at my level of issues caused currently), but I most certainly am one. My drinking escalated over the course of two years, damn near destroyed my long term relationship, caused me to total a car, break my jaw, and get a DUI. My BAC was right around what your husband had, maybe a touch higher (it's been a couple of years - I can't remember if it was .265 or .275).

This thread has kind of gone all over the place, but since some benevolent lurkers brought it to my attention, I thought I'd pop in, and put myself at your disposal to answer any question you have that might benefit from a viewpoint from the other side.

Edit: switched a sentence halfway through and left a word in.

I had a similar experience, but luckily I am now 14 months sober with my marriage and career intact. 

FWIW, the alcohol use is his issue, and he is the only one that can solve it.  Whether you stay together or split up is a dual-decision, and you will both have a long road ahead if you decide to work things out. 

[RamonaQ]

Most of the time, he can have "just a beer" or a couple, and be fine. But every now and then, shit hits the fan. And it's just not worth that risk. The kids have not been endangered so far, but who knows? I don't know what I'm going to do ultimately - and I don't have to decide right this second either so that's okay for now - but I do know for certain that he cannot drink anymore. At all. His upper limit really seems to be 0.

Hi, Kaizen.  I'm sober 9 years and wanted to comment on this.

I often could have a glass or two of wine and be fine, so even though I went overboard sometimes I thought that  I'd eventually figure out how to control things better.  It took my many years to realize that while I often could drink with no negative consequences, once I took that first drink I couldn't reliably predict if it would be a nice, polite night or if I'd be waking up the next morning with only blurry memories of horrifying things I said and did.  It sounds like you feel similarly about your husband's drinking.  I hope he feels the same way or gets there soon, because in my experience it's hard to change your behavior for the long term without that kind of realization.

Feel free to message me if you'd like to ask anything more privately, I'm happy to talk.  Also, please take care of yourself during this time.  You might want to try out Al-Anon or counseling for yourself.  Being married to an active alcoholic is harder than I can imagine.

[Bicycle_B]

Glad that so many are offering wise advice, including the multiple responders who are or were in your husband's shoes.  Props to them for honesty.

As an outsider to this (grandma went through this, recent generations didn't), it looks to me like change is slow and the harm of divorcing is lower than that of staying.  I base this only on the guess he will not get over this soon, and that it doesn't get easier to leave, just costlier.  If I may be blunt/full of baloney (you decide), you have a role in this because you have the power to stay or leave.  Divorce doesn't fully protect the children but it partially does so.  My guess (I emphasize guess) is that the courage in leaving will pay dividends in your own personal strength, move him toward recovery faster and help the children in the long run.  Tough road regardless, sorry about that.  Maybe your part now is to break the pattern, lead the family forward by making change.  Be bold, not passive.  You're not facing a person, you're facing a disease.  Sorry your husband is struggling but the disease's effects should be limited to one person wherever possible.  Again, just one person's thought after reading.  Good luck to you and everyone involved.

PS.  I wouldn't feel the same way about, say, cancer.  But alcohol has different effects.  Not an expert here.  Still, all family members I know feel Grandma's divorce decision was needed.  If the disease leads to damage that could accrue to family members, the training to be a supportive female has to be overcome for the greater good.  I apologize if I read too much into this situation.  My intuition - ignore it, it doesn't know you! - says you've already been quietly accepting a lot of incidents, otherwise you wouldn't have mentioned divorce in the original post.  Hence my pro-you, Time To Stand Up attitude.

[rantk81]

I was in a relationship with an alcoholic who went to great lengths to hide the extent of the alcoholism at the beginning of the relationship.

The eventual DUI and crashed car didn't end the relationship, but what ultimately did end it was the ensuing depression and treating me poorly, combined with sneaking out in the evening to the corner liquor store (under the guise of going out to buy a chocolate bar) to drink alcohol in the alley behind the building.

I regret not listening to my "spidey sense" at the time, and wish I had paid better attention to the small warning signs. It would have saved me a lot of wasted time, money, and unnecessary heartache.

I am glad that chapter of my life is over, and I am now with a wonderful person who doesn't lie to me.

Sorry for what you are going through Kaizen. It isn't an easy situation for you.  I really hope everything works out for you, whatever you choose to do

[Blonde Lawyer]

When I saw the title of your thread, my first thought was that a true Mustachian DUI would be one after which the offender gets a bike and never drives a car again. Honestly, this would be best possible outcome, for him to never get behind the wheel again, ever. Lucky he didn't hurt anyone, this time. The car being totalled might be a blessing in disguise.

Not trying to make light of your situation. My 2 1/2 year old son was killed 9 years ago by a drunk driver who drove up onto a sidewalk one afternoon. My wife was pulling him in a wagon. In a photo in the newspaper of the crash scene, I noticed his shoes lying on the ground. There would have been no reason to remove his shoes at the site, that was just how hard the pickup truck hit him, literally knocked him out of his shoes. Not that easy to think of worse things that could happen to me, but being the driver of that vehicle would be one.

I'm so sorry for your loss.  Thank you for sharing your story.  I hope anyone that ever drives after a drink thinks of this and reconsiders. 

[RetiredAt63]

Someone mentioned this, but the friends who threw the baby shower are not doing their friends any favours with all this alcohol.  If your husband does decide to stop drinking altogether, you will not be able to socialize with these friends at all when alcohol is potentially involved, because they are pushers.  And, hard core drinking at a baby shower?  There will always be alcohol involved socializing with them.

[calimom]

Someone mentioned this, but the friends who threw the baby shower are not doing their friends any favours with all this alcohol.  If your husband does decide to stop drinking altogether, you will not be able to socialize with these friends at all when alcohol is potentially involved, because they are pushers.  And, hard core drinking at a baby shower?  There will always be alcohol involved socializing with them.

Some states have liability laws for hosts who over serve guests, but California is not one of them Regardless, any host has a moral and ethical responsibility to make sure their guests who leave stumbling drunk not get behind the wheel of a car. I'm also scratching my head about people getting sloshed at a baby shower in the middle of the day. Who does that?

[Villanelle]

While it seems like it might be a bit premature to move directly to divorce, you mention fear of splitting assets as one reason you are hesitant to divorce.  What about fear of losing all your assets and perhaps most of your future assets when he maims or kills someone the next time he does this?  All of your joint assets are currently at risk from his stupidity.  A judgement to the person permanently disabled, or to the family of a dead parent or child will eat up EVERYTHING. 

Assuming I wasn't ready to move to divorce yet, I'd absolutely consider this rock bottom, either for him or for me.  If he didn't make a genuine effort to get and stay sober, and to do the background mental health work necessary to stay that way, I would feel compelled to leave, in order to protect myself and my kids from the agony of living with an active alcoholic, and to protect my assets (even if it ends up just being half of what I had when married) from his future stupid decisions. 

I would also consider myself complicit in any future DUI situations if I stayed with a man who has a history of this behavior and refused to address it whole-heartedly.

I'm sorry you are dealing with this.  I'm glad he didn't kill anyone this time.  I hope there is no next time.

[oneday]

I'm feeling more optimistic this morning, maybe it's the coffee kicking in, but also -

The car is signed over to the tow lot. </washes hands>

The husband has an appointment with our parish priest today, and for alcohol counseling (via insurance) on Friday. He also set up an intake appt for a marriage workshop program in a couple of weeks (via his insurance). He has given up drinking (for the 3rd or 4th time in our marriage, so TBD as to whether he starts asking to "just have one at social events" in 4 - 6 months). He's very very sorry, is definitely taking this hard and really wants us to work and is asking me not to push him away.

kaizen, I am so very sorry you have this to deal with. Some of your H's  behaviors remind me soooo much of my soon-to-be ex-husband's behaviors. Believe it or not, the drinking is not a major factor in our divorce. It is more the broken trust/abused trust.

Anyway, a lot of people have shared some really insightful experiences from both sides of the issue. I haven't seen mentioned about the aspect where your H asks you for permission to drink. This is so f-ed up! First, you are not his parent, the Drinking Police or his external conscience; you literally cannot make that decision for him. Second, anything that happens after you give permission to drink, he can then justify with reasons 1) "I was drunk", and/or 2) " kaizen said I could drink". Its a trap.

I see him less as a partner to you and more of a third child.

The other thing I don't like about this pattern is that even if he stops drinking now, what guarantee do you have that in a few months he won't start up again? Won't be causing another crisis? How many times do you want to go through that cycle?