Marriage Hardly Recognizable After First Kid

[AtMyWitsEnd]

TL;DR: Basically, my wife is so all-in with our daughter with literally everything that there's effectively no time left over for our relationship.  Fair or not, I just don't feel like a husband anymore; I feel like a dad that pays child support that just happens to still live with his wife. 


I'm posting under an alt name, because this is about the most sensitive thing I've ever posted online.  If you can figure out who I am, please keep it to yourself.

My wife and I have been together for eight years.  If you knew us personally, and even were a fly on the wall during our first seven years together, you'd likely be shocked that I'm here posting about my marriage and what I can do to save it. We were an amazing couple that had a ton of fun together.

But to get right to it, our daughter turns one here in a couple weeks, and since she has been around, my relationship with my wife has so dramatically changed as to almost be unrecognizable. 

Before I get into specifics, I wholeheartedly recognize that priorities change when a kid enters the fold.  I completely get that, and I've made a lot of changes myself that I did not expect to make.  But I feel like DD has caused me to get completely shut out from my wife, because she's just so incredibly focused on DD.  Now, everything is "daughter daughter daughter," or it's "too hard to do that right now" because of "daughter daughter daughter," so we literally never do anything together anymore. 

Time Spent Together: We used to actually do things together.  I'm talking even the most mundane of things. Grocery shopping; stopping at Panera for a quick bite; cooking together;  going to church.  Now, literally all she does is take care of our daughter, and then maybe we watch an hour of TV before bed, and then she's out.

Social: I'm pretty mustachian, so by no means do I expect to go out twice a week or anything.  We used to go out together maybe 2-3 times a month, max, and often we had a gift card somewhere.  Now, since our daughter was born (almost a year), we have gone out a total of four times.

Sex: We used to have sex 3-4 times a week.  Nothing insane.  Now it's probably once every two weeks with her not being the way she used to be.

Traveling: We used to use hotel points to go to a nearby city about twice a year.  We also would take a 3-4 day trip somewhere a little further.  We have not done any of this even after I've suggested it God knows how many times.

Work: My wife used to work full time, but now she's down to three days per week after I thought work/taking care of DD was too much.  But she's still super stressed and basically unapproachable on her work days.

Our Daughter: I alluded to this earlier, but my wife is your classic 2019 mom that is neurotic about literally everything.  I've posted under my normal username here regarding what I can do to help, and I've tried implementing that advice, but my wife won't even let me help.  It took weeks to get her to let me wash the bottles at night. I've tried taking over doing DD's bath and putting her to bed so my wife can tend to other stuff, but that's gone nowhere.

My honest opinion is that she lets DD control way too much of our lives than she should.  Yesterday, for example, we could have gone to church, gone to lunch, and had a nice day; but that was too hard, and my wife doesn't let me pack the bag; so we sat around and did this and that and this and that for DD, the day melted away, and what was the point? It cannot possibly be this hard or everyone who had kids would have killed themselves by now.

I'm honestly just so lost and frustrated. I understand that you get moved a little down the pecking order when you're taking care of an infant.  However, I absolutely do not expect to basically get completely shut out. 

Like I said earlier, my role at this point feels almost purely financial.  We don't go out together. We don't go on dates together.  We don't travel together.  We don't go to church together.  We don't hang out with friends together.  We don't have sex.  We don't cook together.  We hardly do anything together except watch 45 minutes of TV together and sleep in the same bed.

The most worrying part for me is that I've communicated my frustrations about 3-4 times now.  We most recently had a 3 hour conversation about it, and nothing really changed.

Conclusion

Taking a bit of a right turn here, the above is a rant.  I hope you can understand my frustrations.  But I'm not at all throwing in the towel.  I love my wife and DD to death, and this already long post would be illegible if I took the time to write about how much I love her. 

So, I'm not looking for the easy way out.  I want to get through this and make this work.  I want to help my wife overcome whatever she's feeling.  I want to help out with DD more so we can be a better family.  I want to have a second kid.  I want to stay. And I'm looking for help.

[GreenQueen]

I didn't catch how old DD is, but this sounds like your SO has postpartum anxiety. I don't have major suggestions other than suggesting your wife get some perspective, possible involving therapy and maybe a diagnosis. I had some very mild postpartum anxiety after our first and it was shocking to see how much bs my mind was capable of creating. I would have been unrecognizable if not for a strong meditation practice and a lot of postpartum care.

Besides the mental aspect, childbirth, nursing, and raising a young kid are obviously very taxing physically and hormonally. It's worth her getting some acupuncture or maybe even physio for pelvic floor therapy if she feels really not like herself physcially (from your perspective or hers).

Also, is she a SAHM or WAHM? Can you afford some daycare if you're not doing that already? I cannot possible imagine being plugged into my child 24-7, and we adore ours. Daycare structure and socialization are good for everyone IMO.

You're awesome for being so present and wanting to improve things.

[iris lily]

Who takes care of the kid on the days your wife works?

Your situation sounds like hell. I mean, since your one year old is a typical one year old and not medically fragile or anything like that, this is a rough road your wife has chosen.

Does friends and family notice what seems to be a ridiculous level of preoccupation with the kid?

Dude:: are you insane? No second child.

[AtMyWitsEnd]

Who takes care of the kid on the days your wife works?

Wife's mom, who is the only person my wife is really comfortable letting babysit DD.  Wife's mom actually had to retire from work to do this, so we pay her quite a bit (more than market rate) so that they are also financially comfortable.

I went along with this thinking it would help things (wife's mom is awesome), and that the expense was half for the actual care, but also half for getting my wife back.  But things are still as described in my original post.

[seemsright]

It sounds like postpartum anxiety/depression. I can tell you this because I fought it for 2 and half years. I tried to get help many times but the doctors all told me to go workout and it will all be okay. I was at the gym 6 days after I gave birth. Working out was the only thing that made me feel better I was working out for 2 hours a day when DD was a baby.

My Marriage was on the rocks. I did manage to get a bit of help after DD was 2 and half and I broke down over a paper airplane and managed to get through to a therapist that happened to be a parent and could see that there was a issue. I was a control freak. I wanted everything just so. The bread had to go in the same spot in the fridge or I would lose my mind. The coffee mug had to be put just so back in the cabinet. So your take on your wife hits me hard. She needs support. And that support may not look like the typical. She needs a therapist to start with. But that might end up being a personal trainer, a monthly hike with friends, a bubble bath with all of the fancy things in the water and a glass of wine.

My marriage even got worst when DD turned 4. She was so hard at 4 that I could not take it so hard you could not pay me all of the money in the world to re-live that age. We could not take her anywhere. She would meltdown and throw a fit. We would bring in a babysitter and she would throw such a fit that the babysitter would not stay. When I say it was bad...it was bad. We had to get into the routine of putting her to bed and trying to hang out at home. And now that she is 9 we still have not gotten to a point where we go out much.

Kids change things.  Your life will not be the same before kids. But you can work with your wife and create the new normal.

[acepedro45]

Yup, I hear a lot of truth about raising an infant. I write as a father of a 6-month-old and a soon to be three-year-old.

Things that will get better automatically with time:

You both are undoubtedly sleep-deprived and stressed to the max. But somewhere in this second year of life, your daughter will make progress towards sleeping through the night. She will become independant of formula/breast milk. She will be able to walk with you on her own. Since you guys are already anal-retentive parents, you will even make the same error my wife and I did with our first and start your daughter on the path to toilet training too early. The side result, though, will be a little human kid no longer needs a stroller with a diaper bag crammed full of food, diapers, extra clothes, pacifiers to go anywhere. You'll no longer have to plan like it's for D-Day just to schlep off to the grocery store.

There will come a point - and it isn't as far off as it may feel now - when you will breath a sigh of great relief at how simple it is to just toss your kid in her car seat (or just grab her coat if you're on foot) and walk out the door without the need for elaborate planning.

Things that won't automatically get better automatically with time but you should work on:

In my parallel experience in a hetero relationship with traditional gender dynamics, yeah, it does seem to be the moms who can get a little batty and controlling with their first kid. We struggle with the same dynamic. Even on long trips, my wife won't let me pack for fear I will forget something vital and the trip will be ruined (I'll bite back the retort that in a true emergency almost anything I might forget can be acquired somehow).

Taking the example of the day that got away yesterday, I would insist on taking over the packing/planning for a local trip to the park, grocery store or church. Ideally, you should have the autonomy to take a Daddy daughter trip alone. If you don't, that's ok, just insist that you do the packing and planning. Along the way, you will probably discover you appreciate your wife's foresight when it comes to packing more. She will hopefully discover that you are a perfectly competent father who can handle these tasks without being micromanaged.

Along the way it is possible - likely even - that you will forget something important. It's ok, though. Even if you find yourself at the grocery store with a poopy diaper and no wipes, you just abandon your cart and zip home and chalk it up to a dumb mistake. Now you will never forget to pack wipes again. Your infant stews in her own juices for an extra ten minutes, and no one gets hurt permanently. Advanced tactic: grocery stores sell baby wipes.

I love my wife and DD to death, and this already long post would be illegible if I took the time to write about how much I love her. 

You need to be crystal clear with your wife that things need to change and that you need more autonomy. But make sure you are also clearly expressing the quote you shared above.

You can do it.

[AtMyWitsEnd]

I didn't catch how old DD is, but this sounds like your SO has postpartum anxiety. I don't have major suggestions other than suggesting your wife get some perspective, possible involving therapy and maybe a diagnosis. I had some very mild postpartum anxiety after our first and it was shocking to see how much bs my mind was capable of creating. I would have been unrecognizable if not for a strong meditation practice and a lot of postpartum care.

Besides the mental aspect, childbirth, nursing, and raising a young kid are obviously very taxing physically and hormonally. It's worth her getting some acupuncture or maybe even physio for pelvic floor therapy if she feels really not like herself physcially (from your perspective or hers).

Also, is she a SAHM or WAHM? Can you afford some daycare if you're not doing that already? I cannot possible imagine being plugged into my child 24-7, and we adore ours. Daycare structure and socialization are good for everyone IMO.

You're awesome for being so present and wanting to improve things.

To answer your questions: DD is almost one; wife's mom watches DD M-W-F; and wife works out of the house on those days.

I think you might be onto something here with the postpartum anxiety.  We have been looking on Zillow recently, and there's a great house at an amazing price, but she does not want it because it's a corner lot.  And it's not because of traffic, it's because she's seen a lot of people on the news driving straight through banks and stuff on accident, and she thinks corner lots are more susceptible to that.  I specifically remember thinking this was silly but not even objecting to it because the argument was not worth it.

But it's a good example, because take that one in a million chance of something bad happening (a literal car driving through a house), and she applies it to everything, and lets it control the decision. So then everything is just maxed out 10/10 -- taking DD somewhere requires the most ridiculous packing and planning you've ever seen.  Fanny pack, diaper bag, blah blah; and I try to say, "Babe, all we need is diapers, a change of clothes for DD, a bottle with formula already in it, and some wipes."  It's always made a bigger deal than this in case the one in a million thing happens, so then we end up not doing anything, because it's too much of a hassle.

And again, apply that to everything. Traveling is a no-go because it requires too much planning.  Social stuff is too hard because what if we forget something.  It's just so exhausting for me.

[mtn]

Sounds like your wife doesn't even allow you to be a father to your daughter. I had had this worry with my own wife, before life decided we needed a dose of hell, and my wife realized (before anything like this happened, or could have happened) that I'm a responsible adult and love our daughter and she needs to trust me, just like I need to trust her.

I could give advice, but ultimately they're just anecdotes about small things that helped us, but ultimately it was therapy. And some of the things that I did may be throwing gas on a fire for others.

She needs therapy, as I agree with the Post-Partum depression folks here. Wishing you good luck, and good mental health to her.

[scantee]

You don’t need your wife’s permission to take your daughter out of the house by yourself. If you want to take your daughter to church and Panera next week, do it! Should your wife push back tell her it is a good chance for her to have some alone time to relax and do whatever she wants. It will also be a good thing for your relationship with your daughter to have things you do together, separate from your wife. My guess is that if you do this regularly eventually it will be a gentle push for your wife to start joining you on these outings because she’ll fell like she is missing out.

As for the bigger picture, I agree she probably has postpartum anxiety. Broaching that possibility with her will be tough but I think if you come at it from a place of caring and concern for her it will be better received than if you frame it as your frustration with the marriage.

[NonprofitER]

I'm so sorry, @AtMyWitsEnd . That sounds truly awful for all parties.

Agree with the other posters re some anxiety/depression. The level of control she's exacting about all the routines suggests she's not thinking very clearly.  It's normal for mothers to be fussy with infants, routines, etc. (I definitely was), but not being able to relinquish some routines to you, or make it out of the house for normal outings like church (which tends to be exceedingly family friendly?!) is concerning. How does she react when you (gently) discuss the importance of her helping scaffold your relationship with DD by giving over some parts of the routine?

I have a friend who struggled in much the same way you describe your wife and it was hard to watch. She had trauma from her own childhood which may have contributed to her anxiety around making childhood "perfect" for her DD, and ultimately letting her DD's whims dictate the entire family dynamic.  Motherhood became her only identity. This became exasperated even further when my friend and her partner had a second child and the partner was physically absent often for work and delegated to the guest room when he was home due to bed-sharing arrangements.  However, even in their dire situation, now that BOTH children are in preschool/ school, my friend appears to be finally 'coming up for air' and reclaiming her identity outside of motherhood and re-engaging in her marriage in a way she hadn't when the children were younger.  All that said, I completely empathize with you having your own emotional needs, and not wanting to be on the sidelines of your own life for years.

I wish there was a quick fix, but the reality is that it will likely take some time to resolve - even with her willingly participating in either individual/couples therapy or other forms of anxiety reduction.  I think a P/T preschool option (maybe in addition to your MIL) may eventually allow your wife to see how resilient and capable your DD is, and how kids benefit from learning to love and trust multiple caregivers.  If your wife could have more space to reclaim herself, she would likely have more emotional/mental energy to reconnect to you. I suspect she feels distant from her own pre-motherhood identity, and that precludes the ability for her to feel desire towards you. 

[Gay Burqueño Dad]

I have a vaguely similar situation (with me being the one wrapped around the kids, mostly due to work scheduling and my failure to grab the solo time that is available) that I am just now dramatically improving. Self-care time for both you and her (I'm guessing she is doing very little to none right now) would be very healthy. If she's not willing to do it, that's ultimately her decision. But a giving, easy way in to this could be to choose (X self-care activity that she used to do before kids), find a class/whatever that happens at a time when you can care for your daughter, and suggest that it might be really good for her to do it. Or, assuming you're doing some, you could lay out the time you're spending on self-care activities, and say that it would be totally fair and desirable for her to take the same amount of time to do hers.

Therapy is also a good idea. It sounds to me like you're doing alright (aside from the relationship) and she needs to realize something is wrong and heal. But if she's not willing to go to therapy, therapy just for you would be a good place to help you strategize, vent, and deal with this.

[Fru-Gal]

It wasn't until my first was 11 -- 11 YEARS OLD -- that spouse and I went out together at night. Didn't have money for a babysitter. I was the main breadwinner and main caregiver and also spouse has a chronic condition or two. Oh, and no sex for years.

However the kids did go to daycare near our house while I worked. I think daycare is super important for social development. At least, care with several other children. Because otherwise by the time they get to kindergarten, integrating them into school is a nightmare. Them getting sick will not be fun, but there's only one way to build up that immunity.

2 points:

1. Your wife is actually in an incredibly enviable situation. She needs some perspective to realize it. With mental illness, I realize that logic/perspective doesn't work. Is she in a mom's group? Or better, the two of you join a parents group. Then you see how others do it.

2. Perhaps the more persuasive argument someone (not you) must make to your wife is very important: SHE IS CREATING A MONSTER. I mean that in all seriousness. Does she want her DD to have a fucked up relationship with men? Does she want to create a level of entitlement the world has never seen?

[Gay Burqueño Dad]

TL;DR:
Social: I'm pretty mustachian, so by no means do I expect to go out twice a week or anything.  We used to go out together maybe 2-3 times a month, max, and often we had a gift card somewhere.  Now, since our daughter was born (almost a year), we have gone out a total of four times.

Sex: We used to have sex 3-4 times a week.  Nothing insane.  Now it's probably once every two weeks with her not being the way she used to be.

Traveling: We used to use hotel points to go to a nearby city about twice a year.  We also would take a 3-4 day trip somewhere a little further.  We have not done any of this even after I've suggested it God knows how many times.

Also, just for context, I think most of the things above is totally normal for American couples and kid that age. Not necessarily all healthy, but normal. Improving the social & sex is totally reasonable - though potentially not to pre-kid levels. However, unless you can leave the kid with someone, it may be totally reasonable for your wife to not want to travel with your kid even though travelling was fun pre-kid. My observation is that 75%+ of my and my friends' travel with kids is totally exhausting and NOT fun. (My kids are 4&5 and my friends generally have one kid that age or younger).

I'm still coming to terms with the fact that some of the things my husband and I enjoyed together pre-kids are just not going to be worth it for quite a long time given that we both work full-time. Particularly, travelling and camping. Our weekends off must include our self-care time otherwise we do not get nearly enough in a week, and travelling and camping are generally stressful and generally preclude much self-care. Our PTO is precious and I'm starting to think that, for now, the part of it that isn't devoted to a (truly, legally) mandatory adoptive family trip is better used on a staycation or one of us getting away sans kids than on the "family vacation" that looms so large in the American imagination.

[StarBright]

A few questions:
Is your wife nursing/pumping?
Does the baby sleep through the night?
If not, how frequent are the wakings? and who takes them?

I'm a working mom who is prone to anxiety. I didn't even realize how much my hormones and lack of sleep were affecting me- for years!

Can you do an in-home date night every now and then? Have your MIL come over and watch baby while you and wife eat nice take out in a different room.

Could you grab lunch with your wife on a day she works?

Maybe do some of the chores with your wife for a while so she sees that you can do it. Get your time in together during baby chore time. Eventually you may need to tell her that you LOVE washing bottles (or whatever other thing you want to take on).

I also agree with @Gay Burqueño Dad that social life and travel go way on hold for a while when kids are small. My kids are 6 and 8 and summer 2019 was the first time we felt like we had fun while we traveled. We still traveled when they were younger, but it was always stressful and I dreaded it.

Re: sex. I remember when my little ones were under a year and were so physically dependent on me. Sex was the last thing I wanted because I needed some time when I wasn't being touched or needed. Is this something you could discuss with your wife? Not saying this is her issue, but it can be AN issue.

Keep in mind that this will most likely pass and having young kids can be so hard. I think it is harder than anyone ever lets on.

[charis]

I agree with the advice to take your daughter on solo outings at least once a week. The playground, grocery store, library, whatever.  You need to carve out your own time with her and let your wife get accustom to time to herself and knowing that her child is safe. 

We never got a babysitter when our children were that young, just the occasional family member, so I can relate to not trusting a babysitter yet. Even now, my kids are much older and we don't go out alone more than 1-2 a month at most. It's the reality of having a family.

I don't doubt your pain, but you might be overly fixated on comparing your current life to your pre kid life. It's not comparable. I'd love to read your wife's version of this post.

[socaso]

I don't want to armchair diagnose your wife but I did not have any post partum depression or anxiety so from the perspective of someone who did not have troubles it seems like she really might be suffering. Even if she doesn't have a diagnosable condition she is certainly suffering by limits she is imposing in her own mind. She needs to talk to a therapist. Perhaps you also need to go to a couple's therapist. Obviously she is taking parenting very hard. There is a very big adjustment period when you have a child and the adjustments just keep coming because of how many changes your kid goes through the first 5 years of life.

[wellactually]

Re: the sex. I've just finished listening to the book Cribsheet: A Data-Driven Guide to Better, More Relaxed Parenting. I don't remember the exact statistic from studies, but it was something like, "the average couple returns to pre-baby sexual intimacy levels at one year post birth." That's the average, so many couples take far more time or never return to the same intimacy levels. On this one issue, you might have gone into it with unreasonable expectations. It sounds like your pre-baby sex life was significantly above-average. Just from basic googling, I see studies that show married sex averages of 51 times a year and 80 times a year. So 1-1.5 times a week. You also may find that the activities enjoyed before are different from what is enjoyable now.

You say you and your wife are having sex a couple times a month, but then later you say there is no sex, an untrue exaggeration likely based on your frustration. Certainly having good communication about the sexual side of your relationship is necessary, but you also might need to continue adjusting your expectations here. Frankly, women themselves don't hear enough about how difficult pelvic recovery can be after birth and are often surprised also by how long it takes to feel normal (or a new normal) again. That further exacerbates the problem of unreasonable expectations, because couples don't talk about it as a looming change. But also, throughout a lifetime of marriage, there will be times when interest levels don't match between partners. Communicating on it is important, but the answer isn't always going to be that you just have more sex to satisfy the partner with the higher interest.

That said, there are a lot of other red flags and pressing concerns to deal with first, which may end up helping with the physical intimacy as well.

Is your MIL an enabler of the anxiety, or do you think she also might have concerns about how her daughter is doing?

Do you think DW understands how much of a crisis point you are at with needing some change? You said you recently had a three hour talk about things. Did anything come out of that? Did she express frustration that you wanted changes or did she express more fears? You are probably going to need to find a way to get her to hear that changes need to happen. You can do the legwork on this and have a couple options for couples therapy ready when you bring it up.

Honestly, it sounds like at this point you really do need outside help. But you're not crazy for being frustrated with how things are right now. Just try and remember that your wife is likely dealing with all kinds of internal anxiety and shame and is not intending to ruin your life. She's drowning and right now she doesn't know how to grab onto the life raft or stop kicking and fighting when the lifeguard comes to save her. She is on high alert literally all the time which only makes rational processing more difficult.

As for how to approach it, I'd focus less on what you want to stop or fix and more on the positive things you want for your family. And provide tons of reassurance that getting outside help is just part of the "it takes a village" component of raising a child and that it does not mean anyone is failing.

[DeniseNJ]

I agree to take the kid out on your own without your wife, but she won't let you without starting a fight.  She'll try to pack everything but the kitchen sink for you to take with you and you'll end up arguing and she will be in tears bc you can't do anything right.

Is there any time you are home that she isn't?  You can definitely insist that you are taking your child to the grocery store and do  not need her help to pack.  But you might try taking a day off or leaving work early and picking up your kid while DW is at work and going someplace with her.  Let her know that you picked up dd and go run errands and then tell her how great everything was.  Do that a few times and then next time you try to leave when DW is home you can say, I've done this before and know what I'm doing.

[ctuser1]

..... , and my wife doesn't let me pack the bag; ....

This one sentence stood out to me.

You are the dad. There are some natural imbalance in how much you can care for the baby vs. the mom. However, it seems totally unreasonable to me that you can't, or aren't allowed to take the baby out on our own or care for her.

I had never handled a baby before, and was thrust into that role abruptly due to some life situations when my second DD was an infant. To my wife's credit, she trusted me with the baby for hours initially and later for more time despite immense skepticism on her part that I could clearly see.

Do you show interest in caring for the baby? If not you probably should.
Does your wife shut you out despite you trying your best? She probably should not unless she has legitimate fear of the baby's safety!

---------------------------

If I was in a similar situation where I was completely shut out of caring for the baby - I'd likely have felt just as resentful as you do!! In my case, I became just as invested in the changed set of life-priorities as my wife was  (despite having very lopsided capabilities of actually caring for the baby).

Obviously I can't understand your situation completely, so maybe completely off base.

[Laura33]

Like ctuser1, I am concerned about the dynamic.  Your wife doesn't "let" you be a father; you are a father, and you have just as much right -- and responsibility -- to care for the child, to take her out, to change diapers and gives bath, etc., as your wife.  So to the extent you are not doing those things, you are the one "letting" her dictate the kind of father you will be.  So if you don't want to be that kind of father, you cannot let your wife limit your involvement -- and that means that when she objects/says no, you need to stick to your guns, and quietly, calmly, insist that you will do X. 

I absolutely agree with the others about the anxiety issue, and you need to find a way to get her to therapy -- even if it's couples therapy and the only way she goes is you drag her with you kicking and screaming (figuratively, of course!).  But I also wonder if she might "hear" you better if you approached the discussion from a slightly different angle.  When I read your list, it sounded like me-me-me -- I want to go have more fun, I want to do this, I want to do that.  I know, I know, this is your venting, and that's all perfectly normal and fine, and I know what you mean by it all.  But I wonder if your wife got that sense, sort of an undertone, even if you were trying to be really really patient and kind and undemanding.  If I were your wife, and you approached me with "why can't we go out like we used to, or let's plan a weekend away, and boy I'd really like more sex," my immediate, knee-jerk response would be "goddammit, I'm busting my ass already trying to be a mom and hold down a job and take care of the house and the cooking and all that, and I'm barely keeping my head above water as is, and now he needs me to be Julie your Cruise Director and plan dates and trips, and then somehow pretend I have energy at the end of the week to have sex?"  And that would either make me angry, or if I were dealing with anxiety and PPD, just remind me of what a failure I am at everything.  IOW, if the discussion comes across as you wanting to have more fun -- even with her -- that's going to be perceived as just another obligation, when she is already feeling at the end of her rope with the obligations she already has.  I will tell you, the hardest times in my marriage were when I felt like I had three kids instead of two, because my DH was being a doink about something.  And that did not put me in the kind of mood to want to go out on a date and have sex, you know?

What about if you approached it from the role of father and husband, i.e., focusing on your daughter's and wife's needs instead of your own?  Try: you want to be an active father, you think it's important that little girls have strong relationships with their fathers, and so you want to spend more time with her doing the daily, normal stuff and be able to build that special relationship with her, and when your wife won't let you do something as simple as run a bath or take the baby on a walk around the neighborhood in a stroller, that really hurts you and makes you feel like she doesn't trust you to do the most basic things.  That you see how hard she is working to take care of the baby and the house and the job, and you're worried she's running herself ragged, and that's not fair to her, and you want to help share that load so she has time to take care of herself.  Maybe ask her for three things she'd like you to take over with the baby, or three things she'd like to do for herself if you guys can make time for it, and see what she says. 

Beyond that, I'd advocate lowering your expectations and taking a win where you can get it.  There's absolutely no reason you guys can't take the baby to the park for a few minutes, or go for a walk/short hike -- those things that you're asking to do as a family are extremely reasonable and the stuff that life-with-kids is built on.  So set a goal of getting out to do something very simple, low-stress, and not time-critical like that every weekend.  Once your wife sees that the world didn't end, maybe you can push it to a trip to the grocery store or to church.  (And then when your daughter has a meltdown and your wife freaks out, just stay calm and take care of things and refuse to treat it as an excuse never to do that again, because all kids do that and you managed it just fine).

And finally, do see a therapist yourself for tips on living with someone with that kind of anxiety/PPD.

[partgypsy]

You are getting good advice. You are right to feel frustrated. You are also not the first couple that something like this has happened to. I also suggest her doing a  Mom's group (hopefully with not just all first time Mom's so she can get some perspective) and if she is willing a counselor to work on her anxiety/control issues. Honestly the only thing that will help is to make mistakes and omissions and see, the baby is still alive! So you packing the bag and taking the kid for trips, walks etc is extremely helpful for multiple reasons.

However there are many things that happen with having a baby that will not be fixed instantly. The level of exhaustion for one, not having personal time to recharge (I remember looking forward to taking a shower, because that was literally my only personal time. Even on the toilet I was interrupted by the kids). I am glad that you are trying to keep your couple relationship going because that is very important! But even if things improve, you may need to re-adjust your expectations for the next few years.   

[six-car-habit]

 quote from above ---
"Is there any time you are home that she isn't?  You can definitely insist that you are taking your child to the grocery store and do  not need her help to pack.  But you might try taking a day off or leaving work early and picking up your kid while DW is at work and going someplace with her.  Let her know that you picked up dd and go run errands and then tell her how great everything was.  Do that a few times and then next time you try to leave when DW is home you can say, I've done this before and know what I'm doing."

 This, exactly this , and similar thoughts put out by other posters. You say you have a good relationship with MIL, so take time off work/ call out sick, swing by MIL's house, pick up daughter and go to the park, or Panera, or library, or whatever.  You Do Not Need Your WIfe's Permission to spend solo time with your daughter !
 All you really need is 2 diapers, a box of wipes, something for kid to drink, and a plastic bag.  If you dont have a car seat in your own vehicle, you go out tonight and buy one, and install it. Do this, Do this this week, and come back and post on this thread about your fun sucessfull time spent with your daughter.

  Alternately, pick up daughter, go to park, store, etc, than call your wife and say meet us for dinner after you are done with work, we'll be at XYZ restaurant at ###pm , we'll meet you in the parking lot. Than she can pack her bag to her hearts content, and meet you there [ you already have the bag with the 3 things i mentioned ].

 After you've shown you can come home with the child unfazed and unhurt several times - Then you wake up earlier in the morning on the weekend, you get the kid ready, pack the diaper bag, and tell wife you are going to church, so wife should get ready also, if she wants to go.  Than let the chips fall where they may, and just leave for church if wife is throwing a tempertantrum.

Edit to add - think long and hard if you want a child who will be throwing tantrums in the store/church/school in a few years, because they are so used to be doted on by mom, and mom being the "law" in the family, this is where you are headed if you dont show some initiative now.

[Daisyedwards800]

Are you feeling stir-crazy?  I am wondering why the focus on trips and social outings.  Is it the sex that is bothering you the most?  I believe that it's normal for sex to die down after 7 or so years of a relationship kids or not, and average once a week.  With a new baby, I would expect it to be less for awhile.  Hormones are wacky after childbirth as well which may mean it hurts for her if she's not super into it. 

[Freedom2016]

Lots of good advice. One thing I'll add to is the mom's group idea.

It might be easy for her to dismiss concerns coming from you (the way any of us can be prone to dismissing what those closest to us might be trying to tell us), but if she starts spending time around more seasoned and less neurotic moms, she might start to realize her control tendencies are falling outside the norm.

I am also curious what her general disposition was during the 3 hour conversation (and what your framing of the issues was).

[AtMyWitsEnd]

To answer some questions:

Yes, @Daisyedwards800 , I absolutely am feeling stir crazy.  One thing I did not mention was that I'm basically self-employed in a two-person partnership, and we have a small little office with no other employees.  My partner is never there, so I have very little social interaction.  So then not doing anything fun at home makes days very long, lonely, and frustrating.

To @Laura33 , I appreciate your candor.  I probably do need to approach my discussions better, but I made it a point in my discussions with her and my post that it was about "us."  I don't see wanting to go out and do something as "me," I view it as "us."  I have plenty of time for me.  I miss "us."  My marriage does not feel like a relationship if all I'm doing is work, seeing DD and helping the limited amount I can for two hours, then watching a TV show and going to bed.  I refuse to think that life has to be this moribund and draining.

To @wellactually , my wife actually bought that book.  I read certain chapters (particularly the one on sleep) and skimmed some.  Might be time for me to read the entire thing.

To @StarBright , our daughter is amazing, and everyone comments about how easy of a baby she is; and this is one of the things that scares the shit out of me for possible kid number two -- if DD is easy, what will we do with an actual difficult child? DD is ten months old and she sleeps through the night from about 7:00 PM to 6:00 AM.  DD almost never, ever cries.  She's great.  But, you may be onto something with nursing/pumping.  My wife breastfed/pumped for 7/8 months, then had to wean for a month or so.  The end of breastfeeding was triggered by constant mastitis, and the weaning was difficult.  I've likely had my eyes closed as to how physically demanding this has been on my wife.


I had one of my good friends, who is a father of four, stop into my office today for an hour.  He told me before DD was born that his wife was "just different" for almost a year after their first kid.  He gave me some pretty good advice -- taking small steps, doing things on my own, respecting her space when she needs it.  He's a great dude who seems to have gone through this, so hopefully it pays off.

Wife already texted me and said she has a ton of paperwork to do tonight, so I will try to do what I can to help.

[AtMyWitsEnd]

I am also curious what her general disposition was during the 3 hour conversation (and what your framing of the issues was).

I approached it on both a micro and macro level.

On a micro level, I used yesterday as the perfect microcosm of why I was frustrated.  We had the entire day to ourselves and I intentionally did stuff Saturday night to free up our Sunday (put away dishes, cleaned DD's bottles, cleaned the kitchen, took out the trash, etc.).  Then Sunday came around and we just did ... nothing.

I tried to explain that this was part of a broader trend, and that I just felt like she puts 100% of her energy in DD, and none to me.  I probably repeated myself on this, but I was pretty thorough with, "We used to do X, now we don't do X; we used to do Y, now we don't do Y."  I made it very clear that I did not expect to return to pre-kid levels, because that's insane, but I did express frustration that we were seemingly not doing anything we used to.

She seemed mostly understanding, but one thing that really shook me was when she said, "I feel like you don't like me anymore."  I asked what she meant and she said that she's a different person now, and that DD is such a huge priority for her, and that she observes that I resent that she prioritizes DD over me, and that I don't like it.

I tried to be sympathetic, and tried to look at it from her point of view.  I tried to explain that the best thing for DD would be if we were happy, and that maybe when older people say, "You need to work on your marriage," this is what they are talking about.  I said you can't just be a mom or a dad, you also have to be a wife and a husband; and after having a kid, the wife/husband part is harder because the needs of your spouse are less visible.

She talked a lot about it being hard for her to work and leave DD.  I have no idea why she is just telling me this now, because I would have told her to quit ten months ago.  But I told her that it seems to me like she is trying to be like her mom (who is an angel, and was a SAHM), AND work, and then she feels like she's not doing either well, which is manifesting itself in frustration and unreasonable behavior (I did not use the word unreasonable, just summarizing).

We left things off that she will start trusting me to do things (like give DD her bath and put her to bed) and, in return, I need to wake up and help out in the morning.  She said this would help lay the groundwork to freeing up more time and energy later.

Per my above post, I'm just going to do small steps.  I think taking DD out on a walk would be good.  Just completely leave my wife to have the have the house to herself and do whatever she wanted.

[Daisyedwards800]

I'm wondering if you can set up your office in more of a community work setting.  You sound like you need adult social interaction and more fun things to do and because you two are so busy with the baby at night, then you might need to get some more social activity at the office.  Putting it all on her, when she sounds exhausted, anxious and overwhelmed is probably not the move.

[Tuskalusa]

I thought you might find this article helpful. Mrs. Frugalwoods wrote an article about her own post part I’m depression. It was a brave and thoughtful piece. Not sure if you might be able to share it with your wife?

https://www.frugalwoods.com/2018/09/07/how-a-diagnosis-of-postpartum-depression-changed-my-life/

Hang in there.

[Laura33]

To @Laura33 , I appreciate your candor.  I probably do need to approach my discussions better, but I made it a point in my discussions with her and my post that it was about "us."  I don't see wanting to go out and do something as "me," I view it as "us."

And that's pretty much what I was thinking about, because you're talking about your version of "us" (go out! have fun!).  That may not be her version of "us" -- and it clearly isn't that right now, even if it can be again in the future -- which means that the conversation comes across as "I need more X from you."  So she hears pretty much what I said above.

Let me flip that on its head:  what if you made the conversation entirely about her and what she needs?  Because at this point in her life, she is in a permanent "us" with your daughter.  And if she's at all like I was, that is freaking exhausting; when you're always dealing with people as "X's wife" and "Y's mother," it's easy to lose sight of who you are as an independent person, to feel like no one values you for who you are any more.  So maybe approach things from the standpoint of she doesn't seem happy, she seems exhausted and on edge and anxious, and she's always loved ABC, and she never does that now, and you know things have to change and she doesn't have the time/energy to do ABC as much as she did, but you hate to see her giving up something that made her happy pre-baby, and you want to make sure that she gets enough time to just be her, to focus on what she needs/wants instead of always looking after you or the baby -- so what can you do to give her that time and space and support, to help her feel more like herself, to get more just plain happiness or contentment out of her days? 

It sounds like your conversation made some progress, and I'm really happy you were able to have a good conversation and that she agreed to loosen up her grip a bit and help you make progress.  FWIW, I think your insight about her mom is spot-on; it's super easy for people with perfect moms to feel like they can never live up to that standard, even though they are often doing things like holding down jobs outside of the house that their moms never did.  What she needs there is reassurance that she's doing great, that she's a fantastic mom, that no kid could ask for better, and that you love her as she is, no matter what -- that she doesn't need to be perfect or get everything right for your daughter and you to love every minute of having her around, and all you want is for her to have the space and time so she can enjoy your life together and your family, too, because she deserves that as much as the rest of you. 

[yachi]

To @Laura33 ,  I miss "us."  My marriage does not feel like a relationship if all I'm doing is work, seeing DD and helping the limited amount I can for two hours, then watching a TV show and going to bed.  I refuse to think that life has to be this moribund and draining.

Wife already texted me and said she has a ton of paperwork to do tonight, so I will try to do what I can to help.

I'm now a proud dad of 4.  When our oldest was 6 months old, I googled insurance policy payouts on suicide.  I had convinced myself I wouldn't be a better provider than my money alone could do, and that I wasn't really part of the relationship with my wife.  Sex went from weekly to 5 or 6 months (or more?).

At one point my mom suggested she could watch the baby and my wife and I could go on a date.  Due to my state of mind, I was shocked she wanted to actually do something with me.

Things are better for me now.  One thing I've focused on is I made a promise of 'for better or for worse' and there's no way just being ignored, miss prioritized or only useful for getting things done around the house is the 'worse'.

What I want to say is people have been there, even ones that look happy and seem to have it all figured out.  If you can, prioritize bonding time with your daughter, because it will help you refocus on why this is happening.  I call my 16 month old my little entropy machine because I can stack the dvd's all nice and neat in a pile, and before bedtime they're scattered across the floor.  Don't worry about the second kid: when the time comes, you'll remember all the great times and forget the difficult ones.

I copied your other response as a reminder to take advantage of these opportunities to do a Daddy-Daughter something, preferably away from the house.  Make it a daddy-daughter trip to visit your in-laws if she won't allow you to go anywhere else. 

[Zamboni]

Dude, this situation sounds awful. You totally have my sympathy. When mine were little I determined that the "hell zone" was the first three months of a new baby's life . . . you are well past that, so hell zone time should be over.

Your wife needs to "let" you do at least half of the child care when you are there. Seriously, you should be out of bed half of the days of the week in time to get your daughter up, changed, dressed, and fed. There's no debate about it . . . it needs to become automatic that it is "your turn" on those days. My vote would be for you to do that on MWF so your wife can just get herself ready for work. Otherwise your bond with your daughter is not going to form as well as it should. She is actively interfering with your ability to bond with your daughter while at the same time screwing up her own marriage. Come up with some kind of system or schedule about when you are "in charge" of certain DD duties . . . it can't be a daily debate, there has to be a system that you both respect.

Your wife is probably exhausted, so I agree that you taking the baby out on your own will help with both that and with you bonding with DD. Strap her in a Baby Bjorn and you can do all kinds of stuff with her.

Also, at least twice per month you need to have MIL babysit so you can go on a lunch date with your wife, at a minimum.

Your wife's concern about the corner lot, though, makes me think she has some pretty hefty mental health issues happening that is just beyond garden variety anxiety. Can you suggest that you go to counseling together? Say it is mostly for you, but that you would appreciate her support. The therapist will catch on really fast to what the real issues are, and he or she might then suggest having some sessions with you each separately, which could really help your wife.

[Cranky]

That first year with the first kid is a HUGE upheaval.

And I’ll be honest - when my kids were that little, the person I wanted to spend time alone with was myself, not my dh.

But you’re the dad, and the more you do, the faster things get back on track.

[ysette9]

I really empathize with both of you. This is so hard and I’m sorry you are both dealing with a tough situation.

My third baby is about 4 months old now. The first year or so of life with each of them was pretty darned difficult. Awful, if I am perfectly frank. I toughed it out with the first two and this time, for whatever reason, I decided that strategy was for the birds and I was going to stand up and say “I’m not okay” and ask for all the help there is. It takes a certain amount of courage to do that, so don’t be surprised if your wife pushes back and wants to say she is okay or can handle it all.

I’ve been speaking with a social worker/therapist for months now. I attend a post partum support group out of the psychiatry department. I attended the depression 101 introductory class last week. I am only now looking back on my first babies and understanding how badly off I was at the time without realizing it. Pregnancy is awful. Babies are awful. Sleep deprivation is torture. Mastitis (I have only gotten it once) is the sickest I have felt in years.

Ladies in my support group talk about anxiety similar to what you describe in your wife. Obviously I can’t diagnose anything but her behavior doesn’t sound normal. Some ideas of things that help me and I’ve learned though all of this crap:

Sleep is key
Exercise is the single most important tool to combat depression (that can manifest as anxiety, irritability, catastrophic thinking, etc)
Check basic health stuff: vitamins, iron levels, thyroid function, etc that can lead to exhaustion
Self care in whatever form that may take such as time alone, yoga, meditation, socializing, underwater basket weaving

You sound like a thoughtful and caring partner. I wish I had a magic pill to fix things. You’ve gotten great advice from the smart people on this thread. I’d suggest making sure you are taking care of yourself in all of this also. My husband HAS to make time for his exercise, otherwise I find I’m having to manage his moods and needs as much as the kids and that is just a big fat burden on me.

Good luck.

[jpdx]

Since you and your wife watch TV at night, I highly recommend Mike Birbiglia: The New One on Netflix. It’s very relatable for your situation and for many new parents.

[Cassie]

Maybe marriage counseling would help. My kids are long grown but my husband was hands off just working and doing outside chores. I would have loved a dad helping. 

[AnnaGrowsAMustache]

I think it's difficult for a lot of people, perhaps mums in particular, to wear several hats at once, in this case mum and wife. This might be especially where their own conceptions of those hats is conflicting. For example, it can be difficult to be the wholesome earth mother AND the sexy wife at the same time. I don't have advice on how to resolve the situation, except that I suspect understanding what's going on in your wife's head is the first step.

[AnnaGrowsAMustache]

It might be worth pointing out to your wife that relaxed mums make relaxed babies. The most relaxed baby I've ever seen had a mum (new mum) who turned up to a mums and bubs pilates class with new 4 month old tucked up one arm and a spare nappy shoved in her bra! No nappy bags or toys or mutiple bottles, and the only baby in the group that just spent the entire course grinning at everyone and playing at copying us. I never heard her cry once.

Is your wife spending time with other mothers that might have a different approach to motherhood?

[ysette9]

It might be worth pointing out to your wife that relaxed mums make relaxed babies. The most relaxed baby I've ever seen had a mum (new mum) who turned up to a mums and bubs pilates class with new 4 month old tucked up one arm and a spare nappy shoved in her bra! No nappy bags or toys or mutiple bottles, and the only baby in the group that just spent the entire course grinning at everyone and playing at copying us. I never heard her cry once.

For fairness I have to point out that the causation arrow may well go the other way: meaning, that lady may have been a chill mum in part because her baby was so easy and happy.

I’ve been surprised at the people who have later told us they were surprised we had more than one given how objectively difficult our first was.

[AnnaGrowsAMustache]

It might be worth pointing out to your wife that relaxed mums make relaxed babies. The most relaxed baby I've ever seen had a mum (new mum) who turned up to a mums and bubs pilates class with new 4 month old tucked up one arm and a spare nappy shoved in her bra! No nappy bags or toys or mutiple bottles, and the only baby in the group that just spent the entire course grinning at everyone and playing at copying us. I never heard her cry once.

For fairness I have to point out that the causation arrow may well go the other way: meaning, that lady may have been a chill mum in part because her baby was so easy and happy.

I’ve been surprised at the people who have later told us they were surprised we had more than one given how objectively difficult our first was.

That's true - kids come with their operating system pre-installed! Some babies are more anxious personalities than others. But they all look to their adults for the basis of their reactions. It's called social referencing. The most chilled out baby will reflect the anxiety of the mother.

The OP hasn't mentioned any specific reason why the baby might be taking up so much focus, like a health issue for example. Reflux is terribly stressful for everyone concerned, and quite hard to get any bloody medical professional to take seriously. I wonder if there might be something like that going on?

[Laura33]

It might be worth pointing out to your wife that relaxed mums make relaxed babies. The most relaxed baby I've ever seen had a mum (new mum) who turned up to a mums and bubs pilates class with new 4 month old tucked up one arm and a spare nappy shoved in her bra! No nappy bags or toys or mutiple bottles, and the only baby in the group that just spent the entire course grinning at everyone and playing at copying us. I never heard her cry once.

Is your wife spending time with other mothers that might have a different approach to motherhood?

Oh please don't tell her to relax!  When you're feeling overwhelmed, there is nothing more infuriating and NON-relaxing than to be told to relax -- or to have people suggest "helpfully" that your kid's freakout is your fault because you're doing it wrong.  Particularly with anxiety, that is really not a helpful thing -- it's just one more thing she can feel that she is failing at.

Not that I disagree, btw; I realized fairly early on that my DD was the canary in the coal mine, to the point that when she was really having a bad spell, I'd start looking at me and DH and figure out if there was something emotional going on with us that I hadn't paid attention to.  But we're not talking about a soon-to-be-mom reading parenting books and trying to figure out the kind of mom she wants to be, or a mom who is dealing with a kid who won't stop tantruming and trying to figure out possible causes.  This is someone who seems to be pretty deep into the anxiety and self-criticism.  She is raw right now.  And that means she's not in a place where she can hear helpful suggestions.

[obstinate]

I think professional help is the only option here.

I was originally going to make a comment about taking up more of the work so that your wife could do less, but you described in your OP her not even letting you help. You are right to think that that is atypical. I've had two kids and have at least a dozen friends with young children and I know of zero cases where the wife tried to prevent the husband from helping more.

I would be super frustrated in your shoes, and would likely be asking myself and everyone else the same questions you are. At four months I would have advised patience. Many women aren't ready for sex or intimacy at four months post-partum, and a four month old can still dominate all the time available to it. At twelve months, though, I don't think advice to wait is supportable any more. Most folks are mostly back to normal at that point, so if things aren't mostly back to normal then one worries that they're not going to go back to normal, at least not on their own.

[Daisyedwards800]

Everyone is focusing on the mom being unhappy - but the post is about the dad being unhappy, and all the posts here are geared towards changing the mom "back" into what she was before.


The dad (OP) here is bored, stir-crazy and lacking in stimulation socially.  This is what he needs to focus on, not changing HER.  He needs to get some social activity for himself.  I know there is not a lot of time leftover, but perhaps he should join a softball league or take some lessons in golf or anything that will give him a chance to do something fun - without putting it all on her.  She sounds okay with her life being about the baby for the foreseeable future, so he needs to do what HE can do in his own personal life to get some activity.  It sounds like got most of his stimulation social and otherwise from his wife.  It's also his work situation - not having any colleagues to joke around with, do a Superbowl pool etc.

Perhaps have a couple friends over for dinner instead of going out.  She can still be in the living room focusing on the baby while you cook up some dinner and have some beers with the guests. 

Start a game night with any friends who have kids or even don't have kids, invite them all over.

[ysette9]

I actually read it as the OP is taking care of himself but simply misses his wife. I don’t think she is in a good spot and a supportive spouse will help call the other out when something is amiss that the spouse doesn’t recognize. It is like pointing out the funky mole on your partner’s back that she can’t see and suggesting she get it looked at by a dermatologist. We don’t always recognize in ourselves when there is some attention needed to keep ourselves healthy.

[oswin]

Everyone is focusing on the mom being unhappy - but the post is about the dad being unhappy, and all the posts here are geared towards changing the mom "back" into what she was before.


The dad (OP) here is bored, stir-crazy and lacking in stimulation socially.  This is what he needs to focus on, not changing HER.  He needs to get some social activity for himself.  I know there is not a lot of time leftover, but perhaps he should join a softball league or take some lessons in golf or anything that will give him a chance to do something fun - without putting it all on her.  She sounds okay with her life being about the baby for the foreseeable future, so he needs to do what HE can do in his own personal life to get some activity.  It sounds like got most of his stimulation social and otherwise from his wife.  It's also his work situation - not having any colleagues to joke around with, do a Superbowl pool etc.

Perhaps have a couple friends over for dinner instead of going out.  She can still be in the living room focusing on the baby while you cook up some dinner and have some beers with the guests. 

Start a game night with any friends who have kids or even don't have kids, invite them all over.

I wholeheartedly disagree with most of this advice. Unless the goal is to get divorced. If one partner in a relationship has a problem, both partners have a problem. I can guarantee that this guy's wife is overwhelmed and struggling. She can't be a good wife while this is the case, so he needs to step up and help. As others have said, figure out how to reduce her workload, how to spend more time with his daughter, and help her get help for anxiety/depression.

I do agree that they should have friends over, but only if the wife's burden isn't increased by it. As in, she can't feel pressured into "hosting", he needs to host, meaning providing the food, etc, making sure the house is presentable (to whatever standard - everyone's is different), and cleaning up after. Having 3 kids, I find it's almost always easier to have people over for dinner than try to meet anywhere else, especially since often the grownups can hang out after the kids go to bed. Of course this only works for childless friends or friends with older kids.

[mm1970]

I waited 24 hours to let all this settle in before I posted.  I agree with some of the others that she may be depressed and all that.  Also, recognize that it's a sliding scale - mental health, exhaustion, what is normal after having children, etc.  Where she falls on the scale?  I can't judge - I don't know her.

But as a mom who works full time and has had two children?  It is fucking exhausting.  Sex every couple of weeks?  You are lucky bud.  It was a full YEAR for us with #1, I mean, don't fucking touch me I haven't slept a full night in 18 months what the fuck do you think you are doing???  It does get better.  It can get better.  It takes effort and PATIENCE.  I've seen a lot of divorces in the last 15 years with my friends.  Sometimes, it's lack of patience.  Sometimes, it's lack of effort. 

If you chill out and go with the flow, it may just get better on its own.  It may get worse.  If you wholeheartedly try to FORCE it, it's probably gonna get worse.

I mean, from what I see, marriage and romance and closeness ebbs and flows.  It's pretty normal.  Definitely make an effort to be close - but close for you might be more sex NOW, and close for her might be a 30 minute snuggle on the couch watching a movie before she falls asleep - but that closeness will probably eventually lead to  more sex.  Periodically my husband and I realize that we are like roommates.  It's easy to fall into that trap when you are as busy as two working parents.  Thing is, we then make an effort to reconnect because we don't want to lose what we have.

We've been married for well over 20 years now.  With the kids being more independent we are definitely more on the upswing than a year ago.

I do agree that they should have friends over, but only if the wife's burden isn't increased by it. As in, she can't feel pressured into "hosting", he needs to host, meaning providing the food, etc, making sure the house is presentable (to whatever standard - everyone's is different), and cleaning up after. Having 3 kids, I find it's almost always easier to have people over for dinner than try to meet anywhere else, especially since often the grownups can hang out after the kids go to bed. Of course this only works for childless friends or friends with older kids.

I wanted to give a shout out to @oswin for this.  A few years ago, my husband really wanted to start hosting people more often.  We'd lost touch with many of our friends, and stopped socializing because: kids.  The thing is, I told him ONLY if he does all the work.  Because: we both work full time.  I have intentionally structured what little free time I get to include my social outlet.  I don't get any of it at work, so all of my exercise is walking with friends, running groups, group fitness.  The rest of my time is spent working on family stuff, and that includes grocery shopping and figuring out what we are going to eat for every damn meal of the week.  I CANNOT add one more meal to my plate, and a big one at that for hosting.  CANNOT.  I can be the sous chef, but anything else: straw, meet camel.

If dad needs social stimulation, I'd start with something else, like a running group or something.

[obstinate]

The dad (OP) here is bored, stir-crazy and lacking in stimulation socially.  This is what he needs to focus on, not changing HER.

That's all well and good, but do you think the wife is also going to want him to get his sexual needs fulfilled elsewhere? That's possible but it certainly wouldn't be typical. I think it's a little short-sighted to view this as merely a problem of the husband needing to get out of the house.

[MrThatsDifferent]

Man, I feel for you. I honestly don’t have any good advice that hasn’t been suggested, so I’m going to give you bad advice:
1. Let your wife know that you’ve hit a critical point and that you want more time with her, at least a date night every two weeks, and pay the grandma to cover.
2. Throw yourself into some hobbies that let you feel like you’re socializing
3. Organize a monthly poker night with the guys (trust me, you’ll find others in a similar situation)
4. Insist on daddy and me dates with your daughter where you take her for stroller walks every Saturday and Sunday morning
5. Join a local of FB Men’s group to crowdsource ideas and get support
6. Have special alone time with yourself so that you can satisfy your own sexual urges until your wife is ready
7. Go somewhere safe and alone and have a good cry, just let it all out. Then tell yourself, this is marriage and family and I can make this work, and it won’t always be like this because I won’t let it.

All the best

[tyrannostache]

There has been a lot of good advice on this thread already.

I just want to say that I feel for both OP and OP's wife in this scenario. After my first kid was born, I was exhausted, anxious, depressed mess for a full year. Every new thing was insurmountable. Going to the grocery store with a baby? How do we do that? What if she melts down before I'm done? On top of that, I'm going to leak milk everywhere! I'm too tired to do anything. Going to the park? What will we do there? What do we need to bring? Let him pack the bag? He never remembers to put in  X or Y or Z  that my anxious brain is telling me we must have. Go out to lunch with the baby? But she's on a schedule! And what if she cries?

And, like @Laura33 says, telling me to "relax" would absolutely not have helped. I would have cut you. I would have told you that I would LOVE to relax, but I am responsible for this baby's every f*9*ing need, and it's up to me to make sure she is fed, that she sleeps, that she has developmentally appropriate activities, etc. As a first-time mom, I found the constant attention to the baby's needs and baby's schedule completely exhausting--it was a constant patter in the back of my mind even when others were caring for her.

It wasn't until my husband sat me down and said, very gently, that something had to change or our marriage was going to break that I realized how bad it had become.

It really felt like each new experience was impossible, so I tried to treat it like leveling up. Breastfeeding at the mall (where we would go to walk when it was 105 outside) was a new level. Going out to lunch with husband and baby--another new level. Each little step was a challenge where baby and I gained new skills. A trip out of town with the baby, that's a boss-level experience. And totally worth it.

It still took us a long time to find our rhythm, and I definitely had some post-partum depression/anxiety that didn't abate until about 8-12 months in.

If I could go back and do it all over again, I would get some help. I didn't even realize how anxious and depressed I was until the anxiety and depression were gone. The fact that she isn't letting you do any of the meaningful baby care is worrisome, and like lots of others, I'd encourage you to encourage her to find some counseling while also finding ways to take your DD out on your own.


When my second was born, I was braced for the worst. I had a therapist and a doc lined up prepared to jump on any signs of PPD/A. And then nothing happened. I had the most gloriously peaceful postpartum time. I eventually went back to work and felt very little guilt about daycare. We did a 10-day van-camping trip when DD2 was 11 months old, and everyone had a blast. It highlighted how much I had missed out on during DD1's first year, and it made me really sad to know that we will never get that time back.

[obstinate]

+1 tyrannostache. Another thing to realize is that minor obstacles can seem insurmountable when you're depressed. "what if the baby has a meltdown at the restaurant?" For example is something a lot of new parents worry about. The correct answer to that question is a mix between "it's not that big a deal" and "who gives a shit." But to depressed sleep deprived new parents this seems like a serious challenge.

I can also say the two best days of both of our children's young lives from our perspective were 1) the day we started sleep training and 2) the day we weaned them. DS#2 got weaned really early because my wife was only breastfeeding out of maternal protectiveness, and I showed her how weak the research in support of breastfeeding is. And we start sleep training when the doctor lets us. So we've been STTN and weaned since about five months. (Our son is about a month older than your daughter.)

Honestly weaning is one of the biggest things for parental equity. Feeding is the only thing that your wife can do for your daughter that you can't, so when y'all are brainstorming, that might be something to consider. I can't say it will be a panacea but I can say for us that was a positive inflection point for intimacy and general happiness.

[AnnaGrowsAMustache]

I don't know that it's especially helpful to point out to Dad that his social needs can be fulfilled outside the marriage. He obviously misses his wife, who is overwhelmed, but also unable to let anyone else help. Yes, there is stuff that a new mother won't be in a position to hear but I do think that the solution is between husband and wife here. OP, would it be possible for the baby to be at the mother inlaw's place while you and your wife go for a walk or something? I find hard conversations are often better had while walking - you don't have to look at each other and you're engaged in an activity. I would frame the conversation around you being a bit left out and wanting to spend time with your daughter.