Author Topic: Managers: Would you hire a mustachian?  (Read 8656 times)

Ynari

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Managers: Would you hire a mustachian?
« on: March 30, 2015, 12:12:30 PM »
To all HR folks, managers, and people with opinions and mustaches, here's a hypothetical question: would suspecting or knowing that someone is a mustachian (or, in general, seeking FIRE) influence your hiring decision? 

If this information somehow was available, I imagine it might be a red flag to most hiring managers because of the fear of losing an employee soon after employment, but that fear seems generally unfounded and potentially resolvable with a good interview (especially with the frequency people switch jobs these days in general, FIRE may actually come later than the average turnover.)

Do you feel you would value it differently than other managers, being a mustachian yourself?

Followup/tangential question: Would networking through other mustachians be beneficial or entirely useless for getting a job?

boarder42

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Re: Managers: Would you hire a mustachian?
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2015, 12:17:36 PM »
It would be discriminatory to not hire someone based on their life goals for FIRE.  I can see it as a negative to invest time into someone only to have them leave shortly.  but most mustachians retire before the insanely over priced working years kick in ....

Luck12

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Re: Managers: Would you hire a mustachian?
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2015, 12:31:36 PM »
It would be discriminatory to not hire someone based on their life goals for FIRE.  I can see it as a negative to invest time into someone only to have them leave shortly.  but most mustachians retire before the insanely over priced working years kick in ....

Not sure if that's what you mean, but it's not discriminatory in the legal sense.  As a manager, obviously I'm biased, but I wouldn't care.   Most people don't stay at a job longer than say 7-10 years anyway and there's no way to know what their FIRE date is.  Also, a lot of people continue to work past FIRE date. 

TheOldestYoungMan

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Re: Managers: Would you hire a mustachian?
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2015, 12:33:44 PM »
If you've ever worked alongside someone whose financial life was imploding, you understand the value of employees who have their shit together.

My bosses have all wanted the same thing.

1.  Keep their phone from ringing.
2.  Don't be too distracting, but do interact with your coworkers.
3.  Have goals.
4.  Work to achieve them.
5.  Let them know if you need something.  Take care of your own wants.
6.  Seriously, don't cause their phone to ring, or through inaction, allow their phone to ring.

Mustachianism ties in nicely to the perfect employee ideal, however, if they don't already know about it, Mustachianism is going to sound crazy.

So over time, you can reveal, slowly, responsibly, various aspects of your philosophy.  But if during an interview you say "I'm basically just planning to rape this place for my high 5 figure salary for the 19 months until I retire at 32, 25 years younger than you are now" then I think they could probably be justified in choosing a different highly skilled applicant.

BlueHouse

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Re: Managers: Would you hire a mustachian?
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2015, 01:35:17 PM »
I probably would be biased against, although even I am starting to learn that there is more to life than work. 
In the past, I wanted all employees to have job as #1 priority in world.  Family can be #1 after work and on weekends.  But if you're needed at the office, you drop everything and return to the office.  That attitude just doesn't seem to exist in Mustachianism.
I also frowned upon side gigs.  I thought it was only fair for a salaried employee to have all of his brain cycles working on (my business) work-related problems all the time. Relaxing and recreation and even sleep tend to give brains a rest and sometimes allow you to solve the most challenging problems.  Those breakthroughs should benefit MY company and not someone else's company. 
Also, one time I caught someone working at his other job while he was getting paid for the first.  So wrong! 

I'm sure I'll get past all of these biases, but probably not before i retire.  But don't worry -- I don't hire anymore.

Eric

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Re: Managers: Would you hire a mustachian?
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2015, 01:48:38 PM »
Hell no!  They'd probably spend half the day browsing this forum and the other half checking their investment balances.  Or maybe I'm projecting.  :)

Luck12

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Re: Managers: Would you hire a mustachian?
« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2015, 02:26:32 PM »
I probably would be biased against, although even I am starting to learn that there is more to life than work. 
In the past, I wanted all employees to have job as #1 priority in world.  Family can be #1 after work and on weekends.  But if you're needed at the office, you drop everything and return to the office.  That attitude just doesn't seem to exist in Mustachianism.
I also frowned upon side gigs.  I thought it was only fair for a salaried employee to have all of his brain cycles working on (my business) work-related problems all the time. Relaxing and recreation and even sleep tend to give brains a rest and sometimes allow you to solve the most challenging problems.  Those breakthroughs should benefit MY company and not someone else's company. 
Also, one time I caught someone working at his other job while he was getting paid for the first.  So wrong! 

I'm sure I'll get past all of these biases, but probably not before i retire.  But don't worry -- I don't hire anymore.

Is this how you largely still think?  Isn't this a bit hypocritical? 

BlueHouse

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Re: Managers: Would you hire a mustachian?
« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2015, 02:32:45 PM »
I probably would be biased against, although even I am starting to learn that there is more to life than work. 
In the past, I wanted all employees to have job as #1 priority in world.  Family can be #1 after work and on weekends.  But if you're needed at the office, you drop everything and return to the office.  That attitude just doesn't seem to exist in Mustachianism.
I also frowned upon side gigs.  I thought it was only fair for a salaried employee to have all of his brain cycles working on (my business) work-related problems all the time. Relaxing and recreation and even sleep tend to give brains a rest and sometimes allow you to solve the most challenging problems.  Those breakthroughs should benefit MY company and not someone else's company. 
Also, one time I caught someone working at his other job while he was getting paid for the first.  So wrong! 

I'm sure I'll get past all of these biases, but probably not before i retire.  But don't worry -- I don't hire anymore.

Is this how you largely still think?  Isn't this a bit hypocritical?
I'm getting better about work/life balance, but yes, I still put work at the forefront and expect others to do the same.
Hypocritical?  you betcha.  See Eric's message above.  It says it all.

Eric

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Re: Managers: Would you hire a mustachian?
« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2015, 02:45:05 PM »
I'm getting better about work/life balance, but yes, I still put work at the forefront and expect others to do the same.
Hypocritical?  you betcha.  See Eric's message above.  It says it all.

Come on now, don't be silly.  I've worked with a lot of slackers before, and none of them were Mustachian.  There's no connection.  If anything, the Mustachian would only have downtime on the job because they were so efficient.  That should hardly be an issue.

waffle

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Re: Managers: Would you hire a mustachian?
« Reply #9 on: March 30, 2015, 02:49:31 PM »
I'd hire a mustachian anytime. The risks of losing them to retirement are probably about the same as the risk of losing most employees to other things. In the time that you have them they are probably going to be among your top performers if for no other reason than they want to keep the money coming till they get to FIRE. True Mustachians are efficient and that probably carries over into the workplace.

nobody123

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Re: Managers: Would you hire a mustachian?
« Reply #10 on: March 30, 2015, 02:55:33 PM »
I'd hire a mustachian anytime. The risks of losing them to retirement are probably about the same as the risk of losing most employees to other things. In the time that you have them they are probably going to be among your top performers if for no other reason than they want to keep the money coming till they get to FIRE. True Mustachians are efficient and that probably carries over into the workplace.

+1.  The only way that I would hold it against them is if they explicitly said they were only planning on working for less than the duration of the project that I was trying to hire them for.  Any employee can quit at any time, get hit by a bus, etc., so if they are a good fit for right now and show potential to be adaptable to what is next, I'd hire them.

JLee

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Re: Managers: Would you hire a mustachian?
« Reply #11 on: March 30, 2015, 02:58:24 PM »
I probably would be biased against, although even I am starting to learn that there is more to life than work. 
In the past, I wanted all employees to have job as #1 priority in world.  Family can be #1 after work and on weekends.  But if you're needed at the office, you drop everything and return to the office.  That attitude just doesn't seem to exist in Mustachianism.
I also frowned upon side gigs.  I thought it was only fair for a salaried employee to have all of his brain cycles working on (my business) work-related problems all the time. Relaxing and recreation and even sleep tend to give brains a rest and sometimes allow you to solve the most challenging problems.  Those breakthroughs should benefit MY company and not someone else's company. 
Also, one time I caught someone working at his other job while he was getting paid for the first.  So wrong! 

I'm sure I'll get past all of these biases, but probably not before i retire.  But don't worry -- I don't hire anymore.

As a salaried employee (who's often on call), I'll use my brain cycles outside of the office however I damned well please, and if my employer doesn't like it I will happily go to one of those other places that recruiters keep calling me about. :)

At least in IT, a competent employee doesn't have to be abused by their employer. There are plenty of places to go.

I can't recall where, but I read an article about how employees with enough FU money to walk out if they felt they were mistreated were generally valued more highly by their employers than those who felt they had to pander to every whim of management. There's something to be said for standing up for yourself.

Gone Fishing

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Re: Managers: Would you hire a mustachian?
« Reply #12 on: March 30, 2015, 03:10:21 PM »
I read an article a while back that said people did their best work when they were "deployed" for a set amount of time, maybe 2-5 years.  I think it might have something to do with having an end in sight.  I think ER could certainly motivate somone to do their best.  That said, if two candidates were exactly the same (which they never are) and one was on the ER path and one wasn't, I might hire the ER guy just to watch things to play out, but certainly wouldn't rate it above any other normal job qualification.     

Networking through a group of well compensated individuals is never a bad thing. 

NoraLenderbee

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Re: Managers: Would you hire a mustachian?
« Reply #13 on: March 30, 2015, 05:10:29 PM »
I want to hire people who can do the job well and are willing to do so.

If a qualified person is frugal and has their financial act together, great! If they have a life outside work, no problem!
If that person displays the attitude that they don't want to work too hard and plan to be semi-retired while collecting a full-time salary, then no. 


forummm

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Re: Managers: Would you hire a mustachian?
« Reply #14 on: March 30, 2015, 06:07:26 PM »
I want to hire people who can do the job well and are willing to do so.

If a qualified person is frugal and has their financial act together, great! If they have a life outside work, no problem!
If that person displays the attitude that they don't want to work too hard and plan to be semi-retired while collecting a full-time salary, then no.

Me too. I would probably be more inclined to hire a mustachian because they are probably more likely to have their act together. If you can be smart enough and disciplined enough to do something that 99% of the population can't do, then you can probably do a good job for me.

Hey It's Me

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Re: Managers: Would you hire a mustachian?
« Reply #15 on: March 30, 2015, 06:22:05 PM »
Honestly, in today's economy few people stay at one company long enough for it really to make a difference. Unless the candidate tells you he/she plans on retiring within the next 1-3 years, I can't see it being a major factor.

SummerLovin

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Re: Managers: Would you hire a mustachian?
« Reply #16 on: March 30, 2015, 07:12:04 PM »
I wouldn't bring it up, nor confirm it, as it can only hurt your chances with no upside. If I were looking to hire you, it would depend on how soon you're looking to FIRE.  Anything less than 3 years is not really worth it from the employer's standpoint. 
How would you feel about hiring a woman who indicated she wanted to start a family soon? An employer can't ask that question,as it is discriminatory, but no woman in their right mind would volunteer that information because they would likely face discrimination. Similar situation here, it should not be brought up.

aschmidt2930

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Re: Managers: Would you hire a mustachian?
« Reply #17 on: March 30, 2015, 07:17:45 PM »
I probably would be biased against, although even I am starting to learn that there is more to life than work. 
In the past, I wanted all employees to have job as #1 priority in world.  Family can be #1 after work and on weekends.  But if you're needed at the office, you drop everything and return to the office.  That attitude just doesn't seem to exist in Mustachianism.
I also frowned upon side gigs.  I thought it was only fair for a salaried employee to have all of his brain cycles working on (my business) work-related problems all the time. Relaxing and recreation and even sleep tend to give brains a rest and sometimes allow you to solve the most challenging problems.  Those breakthroughs should benefit MY company and not someone else's company. 
Also, one time I caught someone working at his other job while he was getting paid for the first.  So wrong! 

I'm sure I'll get past all of these biases, but probably not before i retire.  But don't worry -- I don't hire anymore.

Thank god, you sound like an awful boss ;)

Kidding. Kind of.

17oclockshadow

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Re: Managers: Would you hire a mustachian?
« Reply #18 on: March 30, 2015, 07:30:54 PM »
To all HR folks, managers, and people with opinions and mustaches, here's a hypothetical question: would suspecting or knowing that someone is a mustachian (or, in general, seeking FIRE) influence your hiring decision? 

If this information somehow was available, I imagine it might be a red flag to most hiring managers because of the fear of losing an employee soon after employment, but that fear seems generally unfounded and potentially resolvable with a good interview (especially with the frequency people switch jobs these days in general, FIRE may actually come later than the average turnover.)

Do you feel you would value it differently than other managers, being a mustachian yourself?

Followup/tangential question: Would networking through other mustachians be beneficial or entirely useless for getting a job?

Absolutely not; most people here are not passionate about their work.

Mustachianism and passion about work can overlap, but often here they do not.  The most successful workers are almost always passionate about their work and often are workaholics. 

Given the amount of software engineers on this website, I am curious if this particular professions is especially unfulfilling, or if the people that tend to be software engineers tend to lean towards frugality.

hdatontodo

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Re: Managers: Would you hire a mustachian?
« Reply #19 on: March 30, 2015, 08:09:40 PM »
I've heard some sales managers love it when their sales staff spends on new cars and boats, since the salesperson will have to sell more, making the manager more.

I had a relative who left a university and went to work for a book store. During the interview, they asked how could she afford such a change. She said her finances were covered and this job would just cover some of the minor expenses.


vagon

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Re: Managers: Would you hire a mustachian?
« Reply #20 on: March 30, 2015, 09:10:42 PM »
Relies pretty heavily on the type of work but in general yes.

Think about it, mustachianism is the personal equivalent of how a good business should be run:
  • Start with the overall goal in mind
  • Abide by a set of overarching values
  • Find opportunities in niche areas which others overlook
  • Measure everything to identify waste
  • Ruthlessly reduce costs to the essentials
  • Maximise revenue potential
  • Manage financials conservatively

And for balance here are some negatives:
  • Not necessarily engaged with work
  • Low return on investment in training
  • Less motivated by superficial rewards
  • More likely to game office benefits
  • Less likely to go above and beyond when impacting home life/li]

aspiringnomad

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Re: Managers: Would you hire a mustachian?
« Reply #21 on: March 30, 2015, 09:31:43 PM »
I would, especially if that person was honest about it. I've interviewed many, many people and I can easily see through bullshit so unapologetic honesty is a plus in my book. No one in my office has asked me where I hope to be in ~10 years but if they did, I would tell them that I will almost certainly be in another country. If someone is honest about their life and career goals during an interview, well that's a plus in my book. As a caveat, I imagine it would be a hard sell for me to bring the other hiring managers to my point of view even though I work with some otherwise relatively open minded folks.

deborah

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Re: Managers: Would you hire a mustachian?
« Reply #22 on: March 31, 2015, 03:45:43 AM »
Depends on what you mean by mustashian. I have personally managed at least two people who were FI - multi-millionaires who continued to work. They were both relatively frugal (lived in normal houses, drove normal cars...), but they were both into property in a big way - multiple properties in multiple cities (each owned at least 100 properties). One day I was rung by a real estate place because a trainee was looking for a house. The FI person answered my phone. The real estate person knew his voice because they managed his wife's properties, so the trainee got a good reference from a referee they knew! I would never employ either of these FI people. They were always on the phone about their real estate, and disappeared for hours in the middle of the day (presumably running their empires). Neither of them was really interested in actually working for their place of employment.

But mustashians don't engage in OMY, and so neither of these people would be mustashians - would they? And most mustashians are engaged in more passive investments than real estate - aren't they?

Noodle

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Re: Managers: Would you hire a mustachian?
« Reply #23 on: March 31, 2015, 07:14:50 AM »
I don't think it would matter much one way or the other; I don't pay much attention to what people do out of the office as long as they are bringing their A-game in the office. I actually work with a lot of people who are Mustachian in their habits, if not their goals (it's the non-profit world; we're not retiring early, but we're good at stretching a dollar). On the one hand, yes, people might not stay as long as those on traditional retirement tracks, but on the other hand, you do not have the distractions of people dealing with constant money issues (having been treated to a co-worker's screaming fit at her credit card company via the open office).

MillenialMustache

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Re: Managers: Would you hire a mustachian?
« Reply #24 on: March 31, 2015, 08:29:14 AM »

But mustashians don't engage in OMY, and so neither of these people would be mustashians - would they? And most mustashians are engaged in more passive investments than real estate - aren't they?

A lot of mustachians have real estate, but normally only a few properties. I personally have one and am looking to retire once I purchase the second one. There is an entire forum about it. MMM himself had one for a while, and Afford Anything is based on rental properties.

Sibley

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Re: Managers: Would you hire a mustachian?
« Reply #25 on: March 31, 2015, 09:38:05 AM »
Hell no!  They'd probably spend half the day browsing this forum and the other half checking their investment balances.  Or maybe I'm projecting.  :)

If they'd give me something to do I wouldn't be browsing the forum...

goober

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Re: Managers: Would you hire a mustachian?
« Reply #26 on: March 31, 2015, 09:40:55 AM »
HR drone here, I don't really delve into applicant's personal philosophies on money or investing, unless it were a finance/accounting position. In that case, I could see how one leading an efficient and sustainable financial life personally could excel with my company's finances, but there are many more items that would need to align first.

BlueHouse

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Re: Managers: Would you hire a mustachian?
« Reply #27 on: March 31, 2015, 11:40:10 AM »
Thank god, you sound like an awful boss ;)

Kidding. Kind of.
I was.  That's why I don't do that any more.  I'm trying really really hard to find balance in my life and that's part of why I'm here.  I am a slow learner though and it clearly takes me longer to change my life than it does others.
I realize you're not kidding. at all.  no harm.

vagon

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Re: Managers: Would you hire a mustachian?
« Reply #28 on: April 01, 2015, 06:53:10 PM »
Why do you think they would be less motivated by rewards?

Specifically superficial rewards, things like movie tickets aren't stereotypically in the list of wants for a mustachian.

Dicey

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Re: Managers: Would you hire a mustachian?
« Reply #29 on: April 02, 2015, 09:53:05 AM »
One day, I got an unexpected compliment from my boss. He said that he never read my expense reports, he just signed them and sent them in. He knew I was frugal and spent the company's money as if it was my own. Any time there was an event with a budget, I got the phone call because he knew I could help him come in under budget without looking liked he'd cheaped out. This is more of a frugality thing, but we all know frugality's a gateway drug for FI, which can lead to full-blown FIRE addiction.