Manager vs individual contributor role- what was your experience?

[MayDay]

4 months ago I changed areas within my company and became a people manager.  It has been:
-more stress
-more hours
-less fun (probably because of the first 2 things)
-less rewarding
-really cool to get the inside scoop on what is going on at higher levels that I did not previously have visibility to

Its early days so I am definitely giving it more time, but I am trying to sort through what is just getting used to a new function (R&D to quality) and what is management itself. 

Another factor is the desire for growth both professionally and financially- I got a ~15% raise to become a manager, and I would keep it if I go back to IC- but I probably wouldn't get any more promotions.  Whereas if I stay a manager I could potentially continue to get promotions every few years (TBD- maybe I've topped out!).  I like my company and if I changed companies it would be primarily in search of a shorter commute.

How do you balance whether extra hours and stress are worth it?  FWIW we are probably ~9 years to FI.  I am interested in hearing other's stories about how they navigated this decision.

[secondcor521]

I worked in firmware engineering at two Fortune 500 firms.  First as an IC for about 18 years, then a first level manager for the last five years of my career.

It's a subjective and personal decision.  I think you have identified the majority of the factors, but I will add some:

First:  I was confident in my skills, knowledge, and abilities to take a leadership role when I did.  A factor in my decision was that if I didn't accept the position, someone else in the organization would.  Honestly I didn't want that to happen as I felt that, for a variety of reasons, I was the best candidate for that particular position.

Second:  In addition to a salary increase (and 15% is on the low side of the range, BTW), most managers get quite a bit more stock options, travel opportunities, schedule flexibility, and opportunities to influence the direction of the organization.

Third:  Although you probably have additional information and insight, you may very well find yourself in situations where you are constrained for various reasons from discussing certain things with certain people at certain times.  I was so constrained, and there were several points where I found that to be very difficult and nearly impossible in one case.  This additional information also can reveal some managerial ugliness that most ICs are not exposed to.

You mentioned stress.  Certainly there is more stress; I think this varies from person to person based primarily on how well prepared (education, experience, training) and how well suited (personality, traits) they are for the given position.  There was some transition stress for me which subsided over about a three month period where I was learning how to navigate my new role and as my former coworkers and I adjusted from a peer relationship to a manager/IC relationship.  Since you've moved functional areas, you might have a somewhat longer period of adjustment.

I chose to retire at 46 from my management job.  Partly because I was FIRE, partly because my Mom was on hospice, and partly because of what I considered to be ethical lapses by my management that I was powerless to resolve to my satisfaction.  I will say that I did observe several cases of people who tried management for a short period of time (say, six months to a year) and then chose to return to an IC/technical role.  Maybe it was just the companies I worked for, or my personal attitude, but in all such cases there was no negative judgment of those people by those around them and they usually were happier as well.  Most of those cases struck me as the person just preferred technical work to management work and they were just more suited to the one rather than the other.  So if you choose to return to an IC role for whatever reason, it probably won't be any sort of negative mark on your career.

[Home Stretch]

I spent almost exactly half of my career in software on each side of this dynamic.

Being an individual contributor was okay at first, but then it became kind of a monotonous grind.

Once I made the leap to management, things were much more interesting for a few years, then management became even more monotonous and grind-y with an added heaping helping of stress from company leadership breathing down my neck.

At the end of the day, it was the switch to management that allowed me to FIRE at 31, because only managers at my company received any significant amounts of equity.

If I were doing it all over again and didn't end up in my particular (and admittedly rare, in regards to equity) situation, I'd probably remain as an individual contributor indefinitely, but switch companies more regularly for pay raises and variety of challenges to tackle to avoid burnout.

[Lucky13]

Can you delegate some of your work to senior members of the team? Or promote someone to "assistant manager" to help you? Unless everyone in your group is also swamped and working long hours... in that case I'd either try to hire more staff or negotiation with your management to reduce the workload.  Try a few things, maybe brainstorm with other managers or people you trust at your company. Management is not easy but neither is being a senior IC in my experience, the responsibilities and demands tend to increase regardless of what track (which is a big reason I want to escape and retire early lol).

[MayDay]

Can you delegate some of your work to senior members of the team? Or promote someone to "assistant manager" to help you? Unless everyone in your group is also swamped and working long hours... in that case I'd either try to hire more staff or negotiation with your management to reduce the workload.  Try a few things, maybe brainstorm with other managers or people you trust at your company. Management is not easy but neither is being a senior IC in my experience, the responsibilities and demands tend to increase regardless of what track (which is a big reason I want to escape and retire early lol).

Partof why this week is rough is that my team is all very new- we are onboarding 3 new people right now. I have 1 senior person and she is doing a lot of the training, but a lot falls to me. And if I assign her training she doesn't have as much capacity for projects.

Some of it is I need to stop working on some stuff. Part of the being new in the role thing is that I'm still working out how to prioritize. What things are not worth my time. Any idea how long that should take? Maybe I'm just making excuses.

[KarefulKactus15]

So I screwed up on this.

At my company moving from technical hourly to manager results in a 20% DECREASE in pay with more stress.

The managers aren't way under paid, but the hourly positions are in demand so that's why it's like that.

But I took that leap and can't go back (up or out policy).

The bright side is I'm definitely learning skis I would have never got in my last job regarding project and people management. I WILL use these skills later in life.

The downside -less money. 

[chasesfish]

I spent the first ten years of my career as an individual contributor and the last five in management.

Here are a couple of thoughts:

- Initially going into management was a LOT more work.  More work *and* it was a pay decrease because even though I got a raise in my base salary, I lost my individual contributor incentive and the rest of the pay was in restricted stock.

- The visibility I got was nice and I learned a ton when I worked for the right boss.  I had 2.5 years under someone who eventually got promoted and is now one of the top 5 people in the C-Suite of a Fortune 500 company.  His manager left everyone alone, so there was no meddling.

- My boss's boss left and it created a domino effect.  Good boss changed divisions with his promotion, so I had a new boss and new boss's boss.  New boss was weak and boss's boss was a "meddler".   The job stopped being fun.

- The compensation change was eventually worth it.  I moved from a job that paid $150k - $200k depending on how good of a year I had to a job that all-in paid me $330k in my final 12 months.  That helped make up for the initial drop I took in the change.

- The job eventually got a lot easier, it just became like any other game.  X happens, do Y.  Its a bigger decision tree to learn but I learned it.   There were a few more meetings and a few more required decisions, but it eventually was on autopilot like the prior job.

I hope this helps

[secondcor521]

Some of it is I need to stop working on some stuff. Part of the being new in the role thing is that I'm still working out how to prioritize. What things are not worth my time. Any idea how long that should take? Maybe I'm just making excuses.

After a while (maybe six months), I decided that there was no reasonable person who could honestly think that I would get everything done that was assigned to me.  From that I concluded that there was an implicit explanation that they had delegated decision-making authority to me as to what to prioritize and what to delay or ignore for both me and my direct and indirect reports.  So I started making those decisions.

Generally I prioritized managing others, mentoring people, and communication of information among the relevant parties above individual contributor work and certainly above burning myself out.

This almost immediately both made my workload more reasonable, made the job more interesting and challenging, and, I thought, made my contribution to the company more valuable.

I operated that way for most of my 5 years as manager.  Nobody ever called me on it, and I got good reviews, so I guess it worked out OK.  :shrug:

[mm1970]

Some of it is I need to stop working on some stuff. Part of the being new in the role thing is that I'm still working out how to prioritize. What things are not worth my time. Any idea how long that should take? Maybe I'm just making excuses.

After a while (maybe six months), I decided that there was no reasonable person who could honestly think that I would get everything done that was assigned to me.  From that I concluded that there was an implicit explanation that they had delegated decision-making authority to me as to what to prioritize and what to delay or ignore for both me and my direct and indirect reports.  So I started making those decisions.

Generally I prioritized managing others, mentoring people, and communication of information among the relevant parties above individual contributor work and certainly above burning myself out.

This almost immediately both made my workload more reasonable, made the job more interesting and challenging, and, I thought, made my contribution to the company more valuable.

I operated that way for most of my 5 years as manager.  Nobody ever called me on it, and I got good reviews, so I guess it worked out OK.  :shrug:

+1

What was hard for me, in making the switch, is that I like the tech work and I was never able to REALLY let go.  So it ended up being just more work with a new job but not totally getting rid of the old one.

I've moved around a LOT in the same company now.  So, individual contributor to managing 6-8 people, to managing 3 people, to individual contributor, to program manager where nobody works FOR me but they all are supposed to listen TO me.

It definitely keeps it more interesting.  The pay at my company sucks though.

[Michael in ABQ]

Some of it is I need to stop working on some stuff. Part of the being new in the role thing is that I'm still working out how to prioritize. What things are not worth my time. Any idea how long that should take? Maybe I'm just making excuses.

After a while (maybe six months), I decided that there was no reasonable person who could honestly think that I would get everything done that was assigned to me.  From that I concluded that there was an implicit explanation that they had delegated decision-making authority to me as to what to prioritize and what to delay or ignore for both me and my direct and indirect reports.  So I started making those decisions.

Generally I prioritized managing others, mentoring people, and communication of information among the relevant parties above individual contributor work and certainly above burning myself out.

This almost immediately both made my workload more reasonable, made the job more interesting and challenging, and, I thought, made my contribution to the company more valuable.

I operated that way for most of my 5 years as manager.  Nobody ever called me on it, and I got good reviews, so I guess it worked out OK.  :shrug:

This is a good insight. I recently moved into a manager role in my civilian job but virtually everyone I manage is a contractor so I don't really manage them (federal bureaucracy). I was still doing a fair amount of individual work - albeit trying to pull myself out of the weeds and focus on the bigger project and systemic problems. It helps that my boss was pretty explicit about her style being pile on more than you can handle and let you prioritize it. Not everything can get finished quickly and some stuff may not get done at all. There's 25+ years of prior mismanagement to clean up so the expectation is that fixing it will take years as well.

[Car Jack]

I worked as a lead technologist and principal engineer for a technology within the company.  Our group had another, similar, but easily split off technology with someone in my same position for that technology.  The company decided that our manager needed management help and new jobs were created taking my...and the other lead's positions and splitting them in 2.  One position would remain pure technical with design responsibility and company technologist lead role.  The other would take over project management and supervisory role for about 8 engineers in each sub group.

I declined the manager's job and it was offered to and accepted to someone who sort of worked under me.  I was happy with that.  Funny thing....the other tech lead also declined and kept the tech job.  We both had seen how the company chewed up and spit out lower managers.  They all were on 24/7 alert.  This was in the days of beepers.  They'd get beeped and have to call their manager at all times of the day, night, weekend, vacation.  No thanks.  In time, I left.  Eventually the company restructured and both managers were put back into engineering individual contributor positions.  They were both happier at that point.

Not all manager jobs are the same.  And for me, it was easy.  I have never wanted to go into management.  I'm a tech guy at heart and think like an engineer.  (you've heard law professors say that they teach their students to think like a lawyer).  I've worked for engineers turned manager.  It almost seems that the better and more brilliant an engineer is, the worse manager they are.

[MrThatsDifferent]

This is what I learned and what I tell my managers under me:
1. The first year is shit as you try to figure out everything and realise what a mess you’ve inherited
2. Second year should be better as you make changes to fix the messes and make your life better. Depending on how big the mess, this might take 1-2 years
3. Following that, life generally gets better because you have things going your way now, and then as someone said above, you can kinda go on autopilot, which could be enjoyable or boring, depending on your personality.

Now, you could also have a boss like me who changes things up quite a bit and keeps everyone on their toes, but the company grows, no one is bored and everyone learns new things and advances. Nothing is as shit as the first year though. Can’t help you with the money, all my manager level people make more than the people they manage. That’s an odd one and would drive me nuts as a manager.

[SotI]

I have been on both sides but realized that I don't enjoy the line manager role, at all.
It's a people business, and I am not a people person. Keeping everyone happy, motivated and sorting out the admin shit (HR) made the job quite a chore.

So, I went hybrid 10 years ago: functional leadership (projects), but without the HR red tape and continuous performance review and people development stuff that I loathed. I retained most of my perks, but lost the fancy VP title. Gained back way more job satisfaction, however. And I can focus on getting things done rather than filling out another review form or marketing my department to (other) corporate bullshitters.

My boss fortunately lets me do my thing, that helps, too.
I guess people are just differently wired which will influence preferences.

Moneywise, my subsequent raises probably have been less than if I stayed VP.
On the other hand, I might have been hit by some departmental reorgs.
So you never know ...

[Bloop Bloop]

I didn't like management. I was fine collaborating with or delegating to people I liked and respected, but in any team you're going to have lazy people or mental laggards and I wasn't very good at dealing with them. As far as I could tell they were just wasted time, and oxygen. I also found the management meetings boring and inefficient. Overall I didn't like having to fill in for other people's inability to do their own job correctly. That's part of the job of manager - motivating and improving others - but I didn't like the pushback that you inevitably get from those who just aren't very good at, or focussed on, their work.

So I left and started my own business where I am in charge and I don't have to answer to, or fill in for, anyone but myself. I am glad I made that choice.

[LightStache]

In my past I worked in tech consulting and ended up with a few direct reports, which was OK. Then I downshifted to another field and refused to become a manager because I didn't want to be the face of a company that said "no" to pretty much everything.

But the only way to climb the latter at this new company was to to manage more and more people. So instead I broke off and became a contractor. It's just been a few months so we'll see how long this gravy train lasts, but so far I'll net about $75K more after tax, have greater autonomy, and get to stay focused on technical delivery. And people, strangely, respect me more for my independence. Granted I have a lot more business admin, but I make all of the decisions so it's super efficient and the work directly benefits me, so it's not such an emotional burden compared to megacorp business admin.

[KarefulKactus15]

Funny you mentioned ENTJ (lots argue there's no merit)

A while back I came across an article / study that looked at the personality types vs annual income.

ENTJ sat at the top - with a special note that they typically earn 2-3 times more on their own then working for someone else.

[Schaefer Light]

The only way I would ever accept another management position is if the pay was so great that I could FIRE within a year.  I figure I could be the worst manager in the world and they'd probably still give me a year to improve ;). 

I can't stand being held responsible for the work of others.  I also hate enforcing rules and policies that I don't agree with.

[LightStache]

Funny you mentioned ENTJ (lots argue there's no merit)

@Kroaler do you mean that there's no merit in the myers briggs personality types?

[MrThatsDifferent]

Funny you mentioned ENTJ (lots argue there's no merit)

@Kroaler do you mean that there's no merit in the myers briggs personality types?

  Virtually none. It’s as useful as horoscopes. There’s been no empirical research supporting MB. Bizarre to me that people reference it like it has meaning.

[LightStache]

Funny you mentioned ENTJ (lots argue there's no merit)

@Kroaler do you mean that there's no merit in the myers briggs personality types?

  Virtually none. It’s as useful as horoscopes. There’s been no empirical research supporting MB. Bizarre to me that people reference it like it has meaning.

Ah ok well I was just using the acronym to concisely describe a set of personality traits, but I didn't realize that some people have an aversion to it. I'll edit my post to be MBTI-free.

[PacificaFog]

Hi MayDay,

I’ve been a people manager for a number of years, and I have a few thoughts on this.  First, I’d definitely give yourself a full year before you decide whether this is for you.  The learning curve for first time managers is steep.  You’re experiencing everything for the first time and that takes a lot of time and energy!  After awhile, you’ll start having the same situations come around, and that will be a relief, because you know exactly how to handle the situation.

I also agree with a poster above about about you needing to ruthlessly prioritize.  (No one will do this for you!  They will keep piling things on until you can’t take it any more!). You should focus all of your energy on how to best support your team.  Your job is to remove obstacles for them and allow them to do their best work.  Anything else is a distraction and you need to say no if someone tries to put it on your plate.

Finally, you may need to change your thinking a bit about what is rewarding work.  As an IC, the reward is knowing you, as an individual, have accomplished something great.  As a manager, it’s all about what your team does.  This is actually a big shift.  But, I’ve found helping and coaching others to truly perform at their best can be amazingly rewarding - once you adjust to not doing all the work yourself.

Hope this helps!  Best of luck in your new role!

[blue_green_sparks]

I decided to become an engineering manager. I knew it was a mistake when I was summoned into a dark, foggy room and all the bosses were wearing robes with hoods.....One good thing did happen; I got an offer of a voluntary separation package that was only given to managers and supervisors. It was nice completing the circle, to see the other side of the business and finally become privy to the real reasons for all the bad decisions, LOL.

[CupcakeGuru]

I went from individual contributor to manager to project management to manager.

I love the management side. The trick is making your team the best that they can be and helping to remove the biggest roadblocks of their work. Once you get that working you can still do IC while trying to make the team run as smoothly as possible. The hardest part is realizing there are some team members who you need to get rid of to make it work.

I does take ALOT of time to get everything functioning smoothly, but when you do it is so worth it. Organizing, prioritizing and getting the team to buy into the vision are key to making this work.

My predecessor in my job worked 60+ hours a week. On a rough week, i work about 30!