The Money Mustache Community
Learning, Sharing, and Teaching => Ask a Mustachian => Topic started by: tuyop on April 04, 2013, 06:36:33 PM
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Brothers, I need some cheap protein tips.
Off the plate for me, because of epic, room-emptying flatulence, is beans and most bean products excluding hummus. Seriously I once farted in my office and the fire department got called because my coworkers thought there was a gas leak. Nobody ever found out the truth.
So, the goal is to get 150g of protein per day on my portion of my and my partner's $300 grocery budget.
Right now, I'm not sure how sustainable my diet is because I've only been doing it for a week, but it seems like I'm eating a lot of food. Basically, here's how it breaks down.
I'm a 25-year-old, 180lb, 6' male in fairly good shape. (My bench, squat, deadlift total is 990, I can run a sub-19 5k, bike a century, etc.) I'm sitting at around 15% bodyfat.
Meat is a limitation because I only eat local, sustainably-grown, happy meat. I don't care about fish because fish don't have happiness. But this means that meat is a 3 meal/week luxury and makes up about 50-80g of protein per week. The other big players are dairy (including whey) and eggs, with nuts and seeds being the least significant form of protein in my diet. Grains are not a significant part of my diet because my partner has a gluten intolerance.
So, the big question right now is how can I achieve the two goals of maintaining my reasonable grocery budget and hitting my protein goals?
I think adding skim milk to the mix will help things a little, but I'm skeptical that the $2/day for 1L of skim milk, which is 36g of protein, is worth it. It's 20% of my daily food budget for 24% of my daily protein, but it's not that great based on, tuna, for instance. Which is $1.15/can for 40g of protein or 11% of the budget for 26% of the protein, but it has mercury in it so I'm limited to about 120g of protein per week that way, or 11% of my goal.
This is an example of my thinking this way. Basically I'm trying to implement MMM's calorie budgeting except with protein. Any ideas?
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I hear the no beans, but can you handle soy? Some people don't react to processed soy the same way as whole beans.
TVP has been a wonder food for us for several years. I order 25 pounds at a time and it lasts the two of us a little over a year as our primary protein, but you'd probably want to start small first and see how the fire department reacts. :-)
http://www.bobsredmill.com/search.php?mode=search&page=1
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I hear the no beans, but can you handle soy? Some people don't react to processed soy the same way as whole beans.
TVP has been a wonder food for us for several years. I order 25 pounds at a time and it lasts the two of us a little over a year as our primary protein, but you'd probably want to start small first and see how the fire department reacts. :-)
http://www.bobsredmill.com/search.php?mode=search&page=1
Soy is right out too. By far the worst offender, it's almost like an allergic reaction at that point. Raging, horrible poops for three days and I'm pretty sure I killed a lettuce with the odour.
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I've found that there is a surprising amount of protein in quinoa.
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What about tempeh? It's fermented soy that your digestive system might tolerate better.
Check out canned Alaska salmon. Low mercury content and, I think, a reasonably cheap source of meat-based protein. I haven't done the math, and personally I don't like the taste of the pink salmon (sockeye tastes good but it's too expensive)
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Heh, squirrel meat is pretty tasty and you could probanly trap them in your backyard for free...
How about eggs or egg whites? Usually a pretty inexpensive source of protein. Do you have any farms or ranches in the area? You might be able to buy a quarter of beef or what have you at a time and bring your costs way down.
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I've found that there is a surprising amount of protein in quinoa.
I love quinoa and eat it fairly regularly, I think that the quinoa that we get from Costco is about $9 for 4lbs.
A serving of quinoa is about 150g (and has nearly 200 calories, which is a tertiary concern) and has 6g of protein. This means that that 6g of protein costs $0.75.
Or, for 7.5% of my daily budget, I get 4% of my protein requirement. This seems to be a problem with most grains, but it's a higher-protein food in that, if you take a serving of tuna AND a serving of quinoa you've hit almost a third of your requirement for protein on only 17.5% of the budget, so the average is pretty good and I think this is the path to success.
Compare that to, say, bell peppers, which I eat fairly regularly, and they're about 10% of a day's budget and do absolutely nothing for protein intake because they're just like water holding hands and may have to be cut out altogether.
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Do you have any farms or ranches in the area? You might be able to buy a quarter of beef or what have you at a time and bring your costs way down.
Along those lines, I've heard that you can get meat pretty cheap by buying those whole rotisserie chickens from grocery stores near closing time at a discount. This is something else I don't have personal experience with and haven't done the math on, though.
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Do you have any farms or ranches in the area? You might be able to buy a quarter of beef or what have you at a time and bring your costs way down.
Along those lines, I've heard that you can get meat pretty cheap by buying those whole rotisserie chickens from grocery stores near closing time at a discount. This is something else I don't have personal experience with and haven't done the math on, though.
I shamelessly took advantage of the local grocery stores around thanksgiving and loaded the freezer with several turkeys that they sold for peanuts. Hard to find cheaper protein.
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I think with your limits, eggs and whey are the ticket. I went for a while with those two as my main sources of protein (along with rice/lentils). Do lentils have the same issues for you? They are cheaper per gram of protein than eggs, and rice doesn't have gluten. Also, powdered milk is much cheaper than regular liquid milk. Frozen fish can also be found as cheap/cheaper than chicken if you catch it on a sale.
So, you've got:
- eggs
- whey
- rice/lentil (maybe)
- powdered milk
- frozen fish when it's on sale
If you work out the price per gram of protein, they are all pretty low. I've never done the TVP/soy/tofu thing so I can't really comment on that.
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Canned sardines might work. They're low on the food chain, so mercury shouldn't be a problem. I like mine mashed up with slices of avocado and lots of hot sauce.
You'll get a better bang for your buck if you opt for less popular meats and cuts. My farmer pretty much gives hog and lamb heads away. If my guy was on board with nose-to-tail eating, I'd be making head cheese all the time. Other bits of offal are usually better priced than steaks and drumsticks and the like. It's getting too warm for this now, but I think tripe is excellent in stews. Pork tongue is lovely braised, with apple sauce and spicy mustard. Beef tongue makes the best tacos. If your local farmer offers smoked cuts, smoked pork hocks are also excellent; I like them with collard greens.
Depending on how strongly you feel about price vs. local, check out Murray's chicken livers. I stir fry them with onions, or make chicken liver mousse, which is daaaaamn fine.
If you don't mind upping your fat, go for whole milk. You won't be getting more protein, but you'll be more satiated from the fat.
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For a cheap, bridge-the-daily-gap protein, I sometimes down one of those 'delicious' protein shakes. You can get the whey protein powders in 5-lb containers from costco or amazon, and the price works out to around 2.5-3 cents / gram, which is right in line with your canned tuna. It's an acquired taste, but I like them after a workout if I don't have a meat day planned. A single serving is usually right around 25ish grams of protein.
http://www.amazon.com/Most-Popular-Protein-Powders/lm/R10TMVKQ6LM90O
Too bad beans are out!
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Yeah I rock 60g of whey concentrate a day now, I'm hesitant to add more because I'm not sure of the effectiveness. Best price I've found is here: http://www.canadianprotein.com/Protein--Bulk-25lbs_c_213.html
Canned sardines might work. They're low on the food chain, so mercury shouldn't be a problem. I like mine mashed up with slices of avocado and lots of hot sauce.
You'll get a better bang for your buck if you opt for less popular meats and cuts. My farmer pretty much gives hog and lamb heads away. If my guy was on board with nose-to-tail eating, I'd be making head cheese all the time. Other bits of offal are usually better priced than steaks and drumsticks and the like. It's getting too warm for this now, but I think tripe is excellent in stews. Pork tongue is lovely braised, with apple sauce and spicy mustard. Beef tongue makes the best tacos. If your local farmer offers smoked cuts, smoked pork hocks are also excellent; I like them with collard greens.
Depending on how strongly you feel about price vs. local, check out Murray's chicken livers. I stir fry them with onions, or make chicken liver mousse, which is daaaaamn fine.
If you don't mind upping your fat, go for whole milk. You won't be getting more protein, but you'll be more satiated from the fat.
This is a good idea, I sent a facebook message to my butcher for price comparisons, then we'll see if I can just buy direct. Unfortunately, I'm moving in 8 weeks or so, so buying a bulk order of meat won't happen until after the move.I think with your limits, eggs and whey are the ticket. I went for a while with those two as my main sources of protein (along with rice/lentils). Do lentils have the same issues for you? They are cheaper per gram of protein than eggs, and rice doesn't have gluten. Also, powdered milk is much cheaper than regular liquid milk. Frozen fish can also be found as cheap/cheaper than chicken if you catch it on a sale.
So, you've got:
- eggs
- whey
- rice/lentil (maybe)
- powdered milk
- frozen fish when it's on sale
If you work out the price per gram of protein, they are all pretty low. I've never done the TVP/soy/tofu thing so I can't really comment on that.
Yeah I think you've got it. I'll try tempeh the next time I'm at the store.
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Have you looked into hunting and fishing for some of your food?
The upfront costs may be a bit high with the necessary license and guns. In NY it's $40 to get a sportsman license (Large game, small game, and fishing) and then you're looking at about $300-$400 for a rifle. The good thing about owning the gun is that it's not very likely to depreciate in value if you take good care of it.
I've never truly crunched the numbers on what it costs me to fill the freezer but taking a single deer can easily put 40 lbs of meat in your possession for very little financial cost once you own a gun (time is a totally different story).
You could even sell the pelts after if you really wanted to get your costs down.
Fishing is just awesome all around. Doesn't cost much at all and you can fill the freezer really quick. In NY you can take 50 Perch a day, not that you should, and that'll put some serious protein in your diet for the cost of some worms and a cooler full of ice.
I realize to most people this might all sound a bit extreme, or not worth the time, but I'm totally biased because I truly enjoy it. Something you might like to consider though.
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For cheap protein I'm into eggs, yoghurt and cheap cuts of meat or offal. About the bean thing - have you tried introducing them very slowly, very little at a time, into your diet? Your body might just need to get used to digesting them.
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Have you looked into hunting and fishing for some of your food?
The upfront costs may be a bit high with the necessary license and guns. In NY it's $40 to get a sportsman license (Large game, small game, and fishing) and then you're looking at about $300-$400 for a rifle. The good thing about owning the gun is that it's not very likely to depreciate in value if you take good care of it.
I've never truly crunched the numbers on what it costs me to fill the freezer but taking a single deer can easily put 40 lbs of meat in your possession for very little financial cost once you own a gun (time is a totally different story).
You could even sell the pelts after if you really wanted to get your costs down.
Fishing is just awesome all around. Doesn't cost much at all and you can fill the freezer really quick. In NY you can take 50 Perch a day, not that you should, and that'll put some serious protein in your diet for the cost of some worms and a cooler full of ice.
I realize to most people this might all sound a bit extreme, or not worth the time, but I'm totally biased because I truly enjoy it. Something you might like to consider though.
This is an excellent idea and something that I will definitely save for and start doing in the next six months or so. There's so much food just walking and swimming around that it's not even funny! I also love being outside and walking around the woods and have thoroughly enjoyed the one hunting experience in my life (hunting coyotes), it was just like doing an ambush in the military except without the terror.
Fishing, though. I guess it's a good way to get some podcasts and audiobooks into my ears.
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Put beans back on the plate. Introduce them into your diet slowly, over a several week period and you won't develop the same amount of flatulence.
Short of that, (and many other great suggestions in this thread) cottage cheese can be had on sale (or in bigger quantities) for pretty cheap. You can also get roasted soy beans to snack on during the day . . . high protein, cheap, but very dry.
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When I was younger and still lived at home with my family they would buy half of a cow every year and put it in the freezer (you can probably get away with just a quarter cow). It is much more cheaper than going to the grocery store and the meat is sustainable and happy. If you enjoy beef roasts and know how to cook them well you will eat like a KING. They also would buy half of a pig which was pretty good as well. There is really no downside, you know where the meat comes from, you get to save a bunch of money, and because your buying half of an entire cow you get to mix it up with different roasts and steaks instead of eating the same cut of meat all of the time. Win, win.
The one requirement is a large freezer, if you don't have one check out the CL.
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Since you say you can handle hummus, have you tried the chickpeas/garbanzo beans that hummus is made from?
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Brothers, I need some cheap protein tips.
Off the plate for me, because of epic, room-emptying flatulence, is beans and most bean products excluding hummus. Seriously I once farted in my office and the fire department got called because my coworkers thought there was a gas leak. Nobody ever found out the truth.
hahahahahaha!!! Never tell them!
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how about nuts? I think they have a good amount of protein. Raw unsalted almonds?
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I say, go with the cow idea if possible. Last time I checked it was like $3 a pound for everything.
My only other question, is why so much protein?
JD
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/\/\/\ I just started the 5/3/1, Jim Wendler says to eat more protein and I trust him because he has a scary amount of tattoos and my lifts have been stalling over the past couple of months. Also, Wendler says that I'm weak like a baby mammal, and baby mammals need milk to grow, so I should probably drink more milk.
how about nuts? I think they have a good amount of protein. Raw unsalted almonds?
The only issue there is calories. I eat almonds pretty much every day, but only like 25 almonds at a time because that's still 200 and something calories. I probably shouldn't worry about it, but I'm on a Quest For Abs before my wedding in August so I try to keep my caloric intake strictly to around 2000 calories per day with 1800 being ideal (as a 6' 180-pound 25-year-old male). They're slowly emerging from my belly fat like neglected dog turds under a snow bank on a spring day.
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There are other types of protein powder too -- you could look at pea protein isolate for example. Or eat beans/peas/lentils and take some extra enzymes like beano
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Jim knows his stuff. Make sure you start off low with the 531 and stick to the percentages.
I would def. keep a journal to see if the extra protein really helps. The only guys I knew that really cared about their protein intake were the hardcore bbers.
Congrats on the wedding and good luck with the abs. :)
JD
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I say, go with the cow idea if possible. Last time I checked it was like $3 a pound for everything.
My only other question, is why so much protein?
JD
I'm with JD, why do you need 150 gms/day. Per webmd, the average man needs 56 grams of protein per day, 50% more if you are an endurance athlete and twice as much if you are a bodybuilder. At most that would be 112 grams/day. Excess protein is very hard on the kidneys and it's a waste.
By the way, low fat cottage cheese has alot of protein and it is very inexpensive.
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I say, go with the cow idea if possible. Last time I checked it was like $3 a pound for everything.
My only other question, is why so much protein?
JD
I'm with JD, why do you need 150 gms/day. Per webmd, the average man needs 56 grams of protein per day, 50% more if you are an endurance athlete and twice as much if you are a bodybuilder. At most that would be 112 grams/day. Excess protein is very hard on the kidneys and it's a waste.
By the way, low fat cottage cheese has alot of protein and it is very inexpensive.
Mark's daily apple said to aim for .75 - 1g of protein per pound of lean bodymass. Wendler says 1g/lean pound of body mass as well. Rippetoe:
"Most sources within the heavy training community agree that a good starting place is one gram of protein per pound of bodyweight per day, with the rest of the diet making up 2500 - 5000 calories, depending on training requirements and body composition. Although these numbers produce much eyebrow-raising and cautionary statement-issuing from the registered dietetics people, it is a fact that these numbers work well for the vast majority of people that lift weights, and have done so for decades."
I figure that I have about 153lbs of lean bodymass if I'm at 15% bodyfat, which might be a little bit high but I'd rather be conservative in that estimate.
I used to aim for 1.5g/lb for some reason, but I've lost the source. My most excellent gains were seen when I ate 5000+ calories per day for 10 weeks and my deadlift and bench press increased 10lbs and 8lbs a week respectively. It was sick, I also ended up at 200 pounds and none of my clothes fit, so I like this better.
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/\/\/\ I just started the 5/3/1, Jim Wendler says to eat more protein and I trust him because he has a scary amount of tattoos and my lifts have been stalling over the past couple of months. Also, Wendler says that I'm weak like a baby mammal, and baby mammals need milk to grow, so I should probably drink more milk.
how about nuts? I think they have a good amount of protein. Raw unsalted almonds?
The only issue there is calories. I eat almonds pretty much every day, but only like 25 almonds at a time because that's still 200 and something calories. I probably shouldn't worry about it, but I'm on a Quest For Abs before my wedding in August so I try to keep my caloric intake strictly to around 2000 calories per day with 1800 being ideal (as a 6' 180-pound 25-year-old male). They're slowly emerging from my belly fat like neglected dog turds under a snow bank on a spring day.
hahaha you're funny!!
Does your fiancee know about your firetruck worthy farts? How is she arming herself?
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/\/\/\ I just started the 5/3/1, Jim Wendler says to eat more protein and I trust him because he has a scary amount of tattoos and my lifts have been stalling over the past couple of months. Also, Wendler says that I'm weak like a baby mammal, and baby mammals need milk to grow, so I should probably drink more milk.
how about nuts? I think they have a good amount of protein. Raw unsalted almonds?
The only issue there is calories. I eat almonds pretty much every day, but only like 25 almonds at a time because that's still 200 and something calories. I probably shouldn't worry about it, but I'm on a Quest For Abs before my wedding in August so I try to keep my caloric intake strictly to around 2000 calories per day with 1800 being ideal (as a 6' 180-pound 25-year-old male). They're slowly emerging from my belly fat like neglected dog turds under a snow bank on a spring day.
hahaha you're funny!!
Does your fiancee know about your firetruck worthy farts? How is she arming herself?
Yeah, she mentioned once that she could pick my farts out of a crowd of farts because she's so familiar with their distinctive characteristics. It's horrible, but it goes both ways because she often eats bread products when she's not supposed to and it worries me because I think something has died inside her.
We don't worry about things like farting in front of each other or pooping in the same house. :)
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/\/\/\ I just started the 5/3/1, Jim Wendler says to eat more protein and I trust him because he has a scary amount of tattoos and my lifts have been stalling over the past couple of months. Also, Wendler says that I'm weak like a baby mammal, and baby mammals need milk to grow, so I should probably drink more milk.
how about nuts? I think they have a good amount of protein. Raw unsalted almonds?
The only issue there is calories. I eat almonds pretty much every day, but only like 25 almonds at a time because that's still 200 and something calories. I probably shouldn't worry about it, but I'm on a Quest For Abs before my wedding in August so I try to keep my caloric intake strictly to around 2000 calories per day with 1800 being ideal (as a 6' 180-pound 25-year-old male). They're slowly emerging from my belly fat like neglected dog turds under a snow bank on a spring day.
hahaha you're funny!!
Does your fiancee know about your firetruck worthy farts? How is she arming herself?
Yeah, she mentioned once that she could pick my farts out of a crowd of farts because she's so familiar with their distinctive characteristics. It's horrible, but it goes both ways because she often eats bread products when she's not supposed to and it worries me because I think something has died inside her.
We don't worry about things like farting in front of each other or pooping in the same house. :)
Can spot your farts in a crowd? If that doesn't scream 'true love' then I don't know what does! Providing there aren't too many dutch ovens in your future then you guys will be alright
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Mark's daily apple said to aim for .75 - 1g of protein per pound of lean bodymass. Wendler says 1g/lean pound of body mass as well. Rippetoe:
"Most sources within the heavy training community agree that a good starting place is one gram of protein per pound of bodyweight per day, with the rest of the diet making up 2500 - 5000 calories, depending on training requirements and body composition. Although these numbers produce much eyebrow-raising and cautionary statement-issuing from the registered dietetics people, it is a fact that these numbers work well for the vast majority of people that lift weights, and have done so for decades."
I am forever interested in the source of this common wisdom. RDA for athletes is 1 gram per KG of bodyweight rather than per pound. I have never seen a scientific source that demonstrates the benefit of 1 gram per pound. I am inclined to think that somewhere along the line someone got their kilograms confused with pounds and it entered into colloquial nutrition mythology, and is now just repeated so much that everyone thinks it's fact - like 8 glasses of water per day, or the idea that we only use 10% of our brains.
And given how dogmatic and religious nutrition topics can be, I'm surprised that anyone would recommend trusting "what we've always done" over the advice of trained nutritionists.
Edit to add: upon re-reading I see you quote per pound of LEAN bodymass, which makes more sense (though I still don't know where it comes from). Most people I hear talk about this are eating 1 gram (or more) per pound of bodyweight. Sorry for any confusion...
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Mark's daily apple said to aim for .75 - 1g of protein per pound of lean bodymass. Wendler says 1g/lean pound of body mass as well. Rippetoe:
"Most sources within the heavy training community agree that a good starting place is one gram of protein per pound of bodyweight per day, with the rest of the diet making up 2500 - 5000 calories, depending on training requirements and body composition. Although these numbers produce much eyebrow-raising and cautionary statement-issuing from the registered dietetics people, it is a fact that these numbers work well for the vast majority of people that lift weights, and have done so for decades."
I am forever interested in the source of this common wisdom. RDA for athletes is 1 gram per KG of bodyweight rather than per pound. I have never seen a scientific source that demonstrates the benefit of 1 gram per pound. I am inclined to think that somewhere along the line someone got their kilograms confused with pounds and it entered into colloquial nutrition mythology, and is now just repeated so much that everyone thinks it's fact - like 8 glasses of water per day, or the idea that we only use 10% of our brains.
And given how dogmatic and religious nutrition topics can be, I'm surprised that anyone would recommend trusting "what we've always done" over the advice of trained nutritionists.
Edit to add: upon re-reading I see you quote per pound of LEAN bodymass, which makes more sense (though I still don't know where it comes from). Most people I hear talk about this are eating 1 gram (or more) per pound of bodyweight. Sorry for any confusion...
Well, it's true that I've always just kind of accepted it, let's see...
Mark's Daily Apple, post is short on sources:
"Experts from the Medical Research Council at the University of College London estimate that, while the typical Western diet today is composed of 49% carbs, 35% fats and 16% protein, the diet of traditional hunter-gatherer populations included twice the protein intake.
...
One of the most common critiques links higher protein diets to impaired kidney function. Recent research suggests, however, that people without prior or developing kidney or liver impairment do not experience any kidney or liver issues with a higher protein intake (1.3 g/kg/day). People most at risk for this kind of kidney stress include those who have a personal or family history of kidney or liver problems or those who have high blood pressure or diabetes. (Because developing kidney and liver problems don’t always have obvious symptoms, it’s important for your doctor to know your protein intake exceeds conventional recommendations.) People with liver or kidney problems, doctors warn, are less able to process and excrete the waste products (mostly nitrogen left over from amino acid breakdown) that are produced when the body metabolizes protein." (http://www.marksdailyapple.com/dietary-protein/)
And you can always trust leangains for an aspergers-level analysis of the available research and strange conclusions, but there's no citations for this post:
"Leangains Workout days: 1.5 grams of protein per lb. of lean bodyweight. For simplicity’s sake, just take a a few grams off your total unless you’re fat or obese. Then, I recommend a carb to fat ratio of 75/25. What I’m saying is that if you were to eat 100 calories of carbs and fat, 75 of those calories should be carbs and 25 of those should be fat. Keep in mind that this is calories, not grams." (http://lean-gains.org/leangains-macros/)
You'd think it would be very straightforward to take 1000 random lifters, give them a program, feed them .5g/lb per day for 12 weeks, 1000 random lifters and feed them 1g/lb on the same program, and 1000 random lifters on 1.5g/lb on the same program and just analyze the results, but I guess nobody's done that.
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Here's a timely story from NPR about tempeh: http://www.npr.org/blogs/thesalt/2013/04/05/174847636/journey-to-javas-tempeh-village-where-soybean-cakes-are-born
I like to just mix it into a stir fry with some oil, greens, and maybe nuts. I still prefer chicken taste-wise, but this is cheaper.
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If you are not interesting in hunting yourself, make friends with a hunter! My dad and brother are avid hunters and I benefit from it. No costs for me, just loads of free/cheap super healthy food. It only takes the two of them to each get one animal and they have more than they know what to do with. Last year my dad got a moose and my brother got an elk and a deer. They gave me a freezer full, and gave away easily 200 plus pounds to friends/family because they simply could not store that much. It makes them feel good to help out people so they are pretty generous in giving it away. Sometimes too much! Hey! I was going to eat that! I buy almost zero meat now. I purchase a couple chickens a year for variety - that's it. Elk/deer/moose meat are all lean too.
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Are you sure you aren't lactose intolerant? That gives me more digestive issues than beans.
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I'm with JD, why do you need 150 gms/day. Per webmd, the average man needs 56 grams of protein per day, 50% more if you are an endurance athlete and twice as much if you are a bodybuilder. At most that would be 112 grams/day. Excess protein is very hard on the kidneys and it's a waste.
By the way, low fat cottage cheese has alot of protein and it is very inexpensive.
Just read some of Lyle McDonalds books and visit his forum if you'd like to learn more about protein requirements for athletes. He's written an entire book about it.
Tuyop, when I was eating mostly eggs and whey for protein, I was just starting the 531. I'm at near-PR levels for reps now after 5 cycles through. It's a very good program.
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Oh, I think the last time I checked the $/g for cottage cheese protein, it was almost more expensive than meat. Maybe that was an abherrant instance though.
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I have no problems with any types of beans, but I've heard that rehydrating dry beans may help with the nuclear farts. Dry beans also have way more fiber and are about 1/2 the cost of canned beans.
As far as protein supplements go, I use www.supplementwarehouse.com. They price match any competitor and you can pick from a large list of free stuff to tack on to your order. I tend to buy Optimum Nutrition's Gold Standard in 10 lbs batchs. It's about $100 for 142 servings and 24 grams of protein per serving... so roughly $0.03/gram of protein.
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The athletic demands you place on your body coupled with your comments about peppers, cutting them out of your meal plans makes me wonder if you are getting enough iron?
My husband is an ironman triathlete and getting complete nutrition is step one, then adding in extra protein, iron, calcium requirements, etc necessary for increased workouts is step two.
Peppers have a high amount of vitamin c, vitamin A and a whole lot more than just water! Vitamin c helps aid in the absorption of iron. All of these fruits, vegets, nuts, etc have elements in them that make all the other elements work better.
I use this website a lot for complete nutrition data on a lot of different foods:
http://nutritiondata.self.com
You might be surprised who much or how little actual nutritional value is in various foods we think of as healthy.
While we are not a GF household I do a lot of GF cooking just because I prefer the taste and nutritional value of buckwheat and quinoa flour Blueberry Banana Bread over a plain white flour receipe. I make homemade pizza crusts using buckwheat flour, too.
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I've tried soaking my beans for like two days and cooking them for hours and it's still terrible.
The athletic demands you place on your body coupled with your comments about peppers, cutting them out of your meal plans makes me wonder if you are getting enough iron?
My husband is an ironman triathlete and getting complete nutrition is step one, then adding in extra protein, iron, calcium requirements, etc necessary for increased workouts is step two.
Peppers have a high amount of vitamin c, vitamin A and a whole lot more than just water! Vitamin c helps aid in the absorption of iron. All of these fruits, vegets, nuts, etc have elements in them that make all the other elements work better.
I use this website a lot for complete nutrition data on a lot of different foods:
http://nutritiondata.self.com
You might be surprised who much or how little actual nutritional value is in various foods we think of as healthy.
While we are not a GF household I do a lot of GF cooking just because I prefer the taste and nutritional value of buckwheat and quinoa flour Blueberry Banana Bread over a plain white flour receipe. I make homemade pizza crusts using buckwheat flour, too.
Well I also eat a pound of broccoli, two carrots, (and this week a pepper) and four cups of greens (arugula, spinach, swiss chard, romaine this week) every day, with sweet potatoes, potatoes, squashes, and sometimes turnips a few times a week.
For fruit I chuck down a three berry frozen blend in the morning and usually an apple or banana.
And I take a multivitamin and a load of b-vitamins and fish oils just in case. You're right about nutrition but I think I've got a good handle on that.
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The amount of gas suffered by the OP makes me think he needs a strong probiotic more than anything. Consume yogurt, kimchi or a probiotic beverage like Yakult every day. This will help break down food and protect you from both viral and bacterial illness.
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The amount of gas suffered by the OP makes me think he needs a strong probiotic more than anything. Consume yogurt, kimchi or a probiotic beverage like Yakult every day. This will help break down food and protect you from both viral and bacterial illness.
Haha, well I fart very rarely as long as I don't eat bean products except hummus.
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Meat is a limitation because I only eat local, sustainably-grown, happy meat. I don't care about fish because fish don't have happiness.
You're entitled to your own food choices, but your second sentence really rubbed me the wrong way.
Fish have nervous systems and avoid painful stimuli and release endorphins just like we do to counteract pain. They're way more intelligent than a lot of people give them credit for. A lot of studies just in the past 15 years have shown how they have long-term memory, problem-solving skills, and keep track of social relationships, hierarchies, and traditions. If by "fish" you meant all marine life, octopuses in particular are crazy smart.
Much fish farming happens in horrible conditions just like land animal factory farming - overcrowded tanks of filthy water where fish are suffocating in water filled with waste and parasites and developing open sores. There's even a term called "death crown" where parasites eat down to the bone on fishes' faces.
Oh, and catching fish in the wild? Look up bottom trawling where they drag ridiculously huge nets along the bottom of the ocean, dragging anything and everything in its path, breaking coral and destroying the marine ecosystem, and too bad if any endangered sea life gets in its way. Shrimp trawling is one of the worst, where they often just throw away over 90% of the sea animals they just caught and killed while looking for shrimp.
People can argue about whether animals can really be "happy" or "feel pain" or whatever, but I think just because you can relate to a land mammal better doesn't mean that they're superior to fish and that the well-being of fish should be completely disregarded. I think most people would be horrified to see a cat thrown into a pot of boiling water, but somehow it's ok to throw a live lobster into one because it can't scream?
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Meat is a limitation because I only eat local, sustainably-grown, happy meat. I don't care about fish because fish don't have happiness.
You're entitled to your own food choices, but your second sentence really rubbed me the wrong way.
Fish have nervous systems and avoid painful stimuli and release endorphins just like we do to counteract pain. They're way more intelligent than a lot of people give them credit for. A lot of studies just in the past 15 years have shown how they have long-term memory, problem-solving skills, and keep track of social relationships, hierarchies, and traditions. If by "fish" you meant all marine life, octopuses in particular are crazy smart.
Much fish farming happens in horrible conditions just like land animal factory farming - overcrowded tanks of filthy water where fish are suffocating in water filled with waste and parasites and developing open sores. There's even a term called "death crown" where parasites eat down to the bone on fishes' faces.
Oh, and catching fish in the wild? Look up bottom trawling where they drag ridiculously huge nets along the bottom of the ocean, dragging anything and everything in its path, breaking coral and destroying the marine ecosystem, and too bad if any endangered sea life gets in its way. Shrimp trawling is one of the worst, where they often just throw away over 90% of the sea animals they just caught and killed while looking for shrimp.
People can argue about whether animals can really be "happy" or "feel pain" or whatever, but I think just because you can relate to a land mammal better doesn't mean that they're superior to fish and that the well-being of fish should be completely disregarded. I think most people would be horrified to see a cat thrown into a pot of boiling water, but somehow it's ok to throw a live lobster into one because it can't scream?
Yes, I totally agree with you, I was mostly joking.
I'm not concerned with fish right now, aside from avoiding farmed fish, because they're wild until the moment they're caught.
I made a decision to eat the meat I do because it was the most morally troubling part of my life. For some reason I don't worry as much about habitat and biodiversity destruction from, say, tuna nets and toilet paper harvested from rain forests as I do the suffering of intelligent animals. I still hate environmentally destructive activities, and I'm working to redesign my lifestyle to minimize my hand in that horrible shit, but I thought I'd pick one thing and really nail it, and domestic meat was that thing.
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Tuyop, thanks for responding.
Unfortunately there are many things we do in life that could potentially be morally troubling, and we all have to make our own choices. I just think fish can use an advocate since they're not as cute and cuddly and loud as other animals.
Since I'm talking vegetarian anyway, have you ever tried seitan? You can make it pretty easily and cheaply yourself by buying vital wheat gluten in bulk online and flavoring it however you want. Or you can add some vital wheat gluten to lots of things like bread recipes to add some extra protein. You can buy it for under $4 a pound, and just 1/4 cup of it has 23 g of protein and 120 calories.
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This is an interesting thread! This subject comes up alot with the frugal communities I communicate with. Protein is expensive and these days good organic free range is at a premium. Despite this I wouldnt skimp on eating good happy meat daily (and I have no medical insurance, believe me if I can do without to save I will!). Its may have been mentioned already but investing in a chest freezer and a generator and sourcing happy clean meat to stock pile would help to reduce the weekly cost. Obviously you have to off set the cost of the investment and running costs etc but we have done the numbers (different here as we are in australia) and it is much cheaper. There is also something satisfying about having a stock pile
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Since I'm talking vegetarian anyway, have you ever tried seitan? You can make it pretty easily and cheaply yourself by buying vital wheat gluten in bulk online and flavoring it however you want. Or you can add some vital wheat gluten to lots of things like bread recipes to add some extra protein. You can buy it for under $4 a pound, and just 1/4 cup of it has 23 g of protein and 120 calories.
Damn, at $4 a pound, I'd rather just eat meat.
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As someone with digestive issues that include horrible gas, here's how I deal with beans:
0) Start with bulk, dry beans.
1) soak for a day or so
2) Rinse, rinse, and rinse some more.
3) Cook the beans, alone, overnight in a slow cooker.
4) Rinse, rinse, and rinse some more.
5) Cook the beans into whatever you're making.
I can't handle beans if I cook them, from soak, into anything. They have to pre-cook, and you have to get every trace of both the cooking liquid and soaking liquid off them. If you're willing to give it another try and risk time off work, that is...
I also second the probiotic comment. Don't bother with yogurt, though; though that has its benefits, the acidophile bacteria in the yogurt aren't going to do all that much for your intestines where gas happens. I personally had good luck with a Nature's Way (http://www.vitacost.com/natures-way-primadophilus-optima-60-vcaps/?prSrching=0) supplement; there's a German e-coli supplement* that I cannot currently recall the name of that might help you, too.
That said, this might just be an intolerance that nothing will help. I've got something similar with corn--any corn product and my digestive system completely voids itself out both ends. (and I do mean completely. Dehydration becomes a serious health risk.)
I'd also like to second lentils and chickpeas-- since we know you can handle the chickpeas in hummus. I think someone mentioned that if you know a butcher, go for the weird cuts, and offal. Heart is just about the leanest piece of a cow, and depending where you are, can be had for a song. Tongue? That's a muscle, dude!
And finally, yes. Once hunting season comes 'round again, go murder bambi. Bambi is delicious, lean, and really, really needs her numbers culled.
* "but wait, don't people die from that?" -- there are good strains, and bad strains. Making sure your gut flora is well populated with one of the friendly strains may also lower your risk from one of the evil ones taking over.
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Actually, Lyle has several articles (http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nutrition/what-are-good-sources-of-protein-introduction.html) on his site that I hadn't seen before.
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Damn, at $4 a pound, I'd rather just eat meat.
Well, vital wheat gluten is a flour so it gets bigger with cooking and absorbing water and such. If you're just talking protein, a pound of vital wheat gluten has 185 g of protein, which is a lot more protein than the 80-100 g of protein in a pound of ground beef, so you can't really compare the dry weight of vital wheat gluten to a pound of meat.
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Whoops, I read that as 1/4 lb, not cup. I guess it might be cost efficient after all.
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Unsure if this was mentioned, but chicken livers are dirt cheap and extra tasty.
I usually cook them in a pan and toss them into whatever i am eating. Including salads. Delicious!
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I don't think I've ever seen liver at a grocery store. Maybe I just haven't looked for it specifically. I think I was scarred from watching Doug as a kid.
How much is liver, per pound?
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bodybuilding.com is having a 20% off sale today if you use BDAY20 when you check out. I'm grabbing a couple months worth of whey.
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bodybuilding.com is having a 20% off sale today if you use BDAY20 when you check out. I'm grabbing a couple months worth of whey.
That's pretty sweet if you insist on ON Gold or something, I just buy my protein here (http://www.canadianprotein.com/Bulk-Whey-Protein-Concentrate.html), it's a bit less expensive than that 10lb ON sale price. I'm so tempted though because ON is just ridiculously delicious and I don't have space in the budget for a $200 protein order right now.
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I haven't read through the rest of the replies, but I eat 200g of protein and over 3k calories per day (I'm 6'7" and a little over 200 lbs), and I spend about $180 a month on food. I find the cheapest sources of protein to be whey, milk, eggs, and meat, especially since the last three have extra calories from fat. I buy 10 lbs of Dymatize whey for about $85, drink 1/4 gallon of whole milk a day, eat 8-12 eggs a day, and about half a pound of meat. I know you wouldn't be interested in buying the same meat I do, but I get usually get ham and chicken breast on sale for $1 and $2/lb, respectively.
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Just to throw out a random alternative to eating so much protein: supplement with creatine.
I don't know if this goes for all meat, but I've read that beef naturally contains creatine, so if you regularly eat a lot of beef, it's practically the same as creatine supplementation. That makes me wonder: meat is the obvious source of protein. And then you have this conventional wisdom that athletes should consume 1g of protein per 1lb of lean body mass. Is it not possible that someone, somewhere, at some point in time observed increased athletic performance in subjects that consumed a lot of meat? What if the meat was really just a proxy for creatine, which was really the cause of boosted performance?
I don't have an "abs" goal like the original poster, but do generally enjoy strength training and want to keep getting stronger. Due to being time poor, the only time I can train is at about 5:30 AM, which is not my preferred time for lifting really heavy weights---it's definitely not when I feel the strongest. And there came a point when my workouts were really suffering and I wasn't making any gains, and it was killing my motivation. I read about creatine (had a great link at one time that I can't find now) and decided it couldn't hurt to try. I bought a 2.2lb tub for about $20 that's lasted me several months. All I can say is: night and day difference. After about two or three weeks of using creatine (the time most sources say it takes to reach saturation), the gains started coming quickly, and I generally felt so much stronger in the mornings during my workouts. That feeling has persisted for the whole time I've used creatine; in fact, I'm about to finish my first tub and just ordered a second.
After every workout, I throw down a whey protein shake. But other than that, I don't really do any particular protein supplementation. I drink a fair amount of milk, but I've done that my entire life because I love it.
Just an idea to think about.
On a completely speculative note: I wonder if some day technology could advance to the state where we have "meat factories" (not to be confused with today's morally debatable "factory farms"). What I'm thinking is akin to the hydroponic equivalent of growing muscle fibers without requiring a live animal. Imagine a mesh of artificial nerves floating in a "nutrient bath" of animal stem cells. A computer controls the electrical pulses that simulate nerve activity, and also times releases of synthetic hormones. The environment of nerve and hormonal activity results in the stem cells growing into edible muscle; for example: a pork shoulder or chicken breast or salmon fillet.
Maybe that's the stuff of science fiction, but imagine a whole factory that produces (for example) ultra-premium prime steaks with extreme efficiency: the nutrient bath is tuned exactly to what is being grown, so there is little to no waste; no animals need to be bred or slaughtered, removing the moral issues; since the product is consistent and repeatable, nearly everything can be automated; the environment can be easily kept sterile, greatly reducing the risks of contamination.
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Just to throw out a random alternative to eating so much protein: supplement with creatine.
I don't know if this goes for all meat, but I've read that beef naturally contains creatine, so if you regularly eat a lot of beef, it's practically the same as creatine supplementation. That makes me wonder: meat is the obvious source of protein. And then you have this conventional wisdom that athletes should consume 1g of protein per 1lb of lean body mass. Is it not possible that someone, somewhere, at some point in time observed increased athletic performance in subjects that consumed a lot of meat? What if the meat was really just a proxy for creatine, which was really the cause of boosted performance?
I don't have an "abs" goal like the original poster, but do generally enjoy strength training and want to keep getting stronger. Due to being time poor, the only time I can train is at about 5:30 AM, which is not my preferred time for lifting really heavy weights---it's definitely not when I feel the strongest. And there came a point when my workouts were really suffering and I wasn't making any gains, and it was killing my motivation. I read about creatine (had a great link at one time that I can't find now) and decided it couldn't hurt to try. I bought a 2.2lb tub for about $20 that's lasted me several months. All I can say is: night and day difference. After about two or three weeks of using creatine (the time most sources say it takes to reach saturation), the gains started coming quickly, and I generally felt so much stronger in the mornings during my workouts. That feeling has persisted for the whole time I've used creatine; in fact, I'm about to finish my first tub and just ordered a second.
After every workout, I throw down a whey protein shake. But other than that, I don't really do any particular protein supplementation. I drink a fair amount of milk, but I've done that my entire life because I love it.
Just an idea to think about.
On a completely speculative note: I wonder if some day technology could advance to the state where we have "meat factories" (not to be confused with today's morally debatable "factory farms"). What I'm thinking is akin to the hydroponic equivalent of growing muscle fibers without requiring a live animal. Imagine a mesh of artificial nerves floating in a "nutrient bath" of animal stem cells. A computer controls the electrical pulses that simulate nerve activity, and also times releases of synthetic hormones. The environment of nerve and hormonal activity results in the stem cells growing into edible muscle; for example: a pork shoulder or chicken breast or salmon fillet.
Maybe that's the stuff of science fiction, but imagine a whole factory that produces (for example) ultra-premium prime steaks with extreme efficiency: the nutrient bath is tuned exactly to what is being grown, so there is little to no waste; no animals need to be bred or slaughtered, removing the moral issues; since the product is consistent and repeatable, nearly everything can be automated; the environment can be easily kept sterile, greatly reducing the risks of contamination.
First of all, my experience with creatine is very similar to yours. I take 5-6g of creatine (and 6g beta alanine) a day, before workouts I mix it with some L tyrosine, phenylalanine, choline, and (in the past) vinpocetine. I must say that it has improved my performance significantly.
Second, regarding your protein factory fantasy, I would just drop this quote:
"Problems cannot be solved by the same level of thinking that created them.”
The problem is a system that places value on simply producing protein rather than celebrating the dignity of animals and the beauty of natural systems that humans can design ourselves into in order to continue reaping the endless wealth of resources that spontaneously regenerate to produce bottomless wells of health, beauty, community, and wellbeing.
I haven't read through the rest of the replies, but I eat 200g of protein and over 3k calories per day (I'm 6'7" and a little over 200 lbs), and I spend about $180 a month on food. I find the cheapest sources of protein to be whey, milk, eggs, and meat, especially since the last three have extra calories from fat. I buy 10 lbs of Dymatize whey for about $85, drink 1/4 gallon of whole milk a day, eat 8-12 eggs a day, and about half a pound of meat. I know you wouldn't be interested in buying the same meat I do, but I get usually get ham and chicken breast on sale for $1 and $2/lb, respectively.
That's right in line with my budget ($300 is for both my spouse and me) except I only eat 150-190g of protein and our meat is much more expensive. A three pound pork roast costs us about $18, for instance.
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Second, regarding your protein factory fantasy, I would just drop this quote:
"Problems cannot be solved by the same level of thinking that created them.”
The problem is a system that places value on simply producing protein rather than celebrating the dignity of animals and the beauty of natural systems that humans can design ourselves into in order to continue reaping the endless wealth of resources that spontaneously regenerate to produce bottomless wells of health, beauty, community, and wellbeing.
I don't mean to derail your thread, but, can you elaborate? I don't really understand what you're saying.
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I've done a lot of analysis over this.
Unfortunately if you want the most protein for dollar you're going to have to go down a few routes.
-eggs, 6g of protein each, usually can be had for about .10-.15 per egg putting the cost per gram at about .02/gram of protein
-chicken breast. I get tyson breasts at 2.1/lb at BJ's, not exactly ideal source. 1lb of chicken usually has about 100g of protein so figure about $0.02/gram here
-whey protein there are a few options I've found that work well and priced well.
Now food whey protein isolate (mega pack), amazon has it right now for about $85 shipped for a 10lb bag. That comes out to about $0.02/gram again.
I struggle to understand how the strict paleo people out there get 1g/lb of protein on a budget. It used to be easy when I was spending $1000/month on food for 2 people ((!!!!)) but now that I'm trying to keep it under $350/month it's all about making compromises. And unfortunately going with lower quality food sources is the only way to do it.
Unless you hunt but you still have investment costs, times costs and butchering costs to deal with.
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I struggle to understand how the strict paleo people out there get 1g/lb of protein on a budget. It used to be easy when I was spending $1000/month on food for 2 people ((!!!!)) but now that I'm trying to keep it under $350/month it's all about making compromises. And unfortunately going with lower quality food sources is the only way to do it.
I eat primal, not paleo. When I did very strict paleo, I found the expense was on average $300/person/month.
Primal lets me get tons of protein from dairy and more grain, otherwise I don't think I'd be able to hit my macros.
I don't mean to derail your thread, but, can you elaborate? I don't really understand what you're saying.
Oh man, to avoid an awesome, radical derail into the idea of a new alternative horticulture and permaculture food chain, I'll just say this.
We currently live in a system that prioritizes linear production and depends on the specialization of tasks at each point in that line. Resources go in, are processed, sold, consumed, and disposed of, over and over forever. Most technological or engineered solutions to the problems of finite resources, dehumanization, and waste that directly result from this system simply seek to either externalize the negatives (so we export our feedlots and child labour to poor countries) or focus on asuaging guilt by putting a bandaid on the problem (recycling, "organic" industrial agriculture).
In the future, we will have to settle with the fact that linear systems are a fundamentally unsustainable, expensive myth. Rather than talk about taking animals out of the equation of meat eating through engineering, we should analyze the natural world and learn how animals have been sustainably produced (by healthy soil and sunlight), lived, and were consumed (by other animals and, eventually, healthy soil) to make room for new animals since the beginning of time. If you plug humans into this system so that our requirements for community, food, and shelter are all met as part of cycle, and our waste is integrated into the cycle's natural regenerative properties in order to capture any resources that we don't consume as a consequence of living, growing, and expending energy.
The reason I no longer eat $2/lb chicken breast is because that is an absolutely insane prospect. $2 cannot possibly capture all of the costs (externalities) associated with the chicken's feed, waste processing, processing, transport, sale, and then processing when it comes out the other end of my body. It's all held afloat by an obscene system of subsidies and head-in-the-sand ignorance on the part of consumers.
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Just to throw out a random alternative to eating so much protein: supplement with creatine.
It's not an alternative. It's another good thing to do, but not an alternative to protein.
I don't know if this goes for all meat, but I've read that beef naturally contains creatine, so if you regularly eat a lot of beef, it's practically the same as creatine supplementation. That makes me wonder: meat is the obvious source of protein. And then you have this conventional wisdom that athletes should consume 1g of protein per 1lb of lean body mass. Is it not possible that someone, somewhere, at some point in time observed increased athletic performance in subjects that consumed a lot of meat? What if the meat was really just a proxy for creatine, which was really the cause of boosted performance?
Yes, beef does contain creatine. I guess your scenario is possible (it has happened, so I'm not really guessing), but it's kind of irrelevant that someone noticed "increased performance" in an athlete eating a lot of beef. People have noticed increased performance, whether real or not, from almost anything they put in their bodies.
I don't have an "abs" goal like the original poster, but do generally enjoy strength training and want to keep getting stronger. Due to being time poor, the only time I can train is at about 5:30 AM, which is not my preferred time for lifting really heavy weights---it's definitely not when I feel the strongest. And there came a point when my workouts were really suffering and I wasn't making any gains, and it was killing my motivation. I read about creatine (had a great link at one time that I can't find now) and decided it couldn't hurt to try. I bought a 2.2lb tub for about $20 that's lasted me several months. All I can say is: night and day difference. After about two or three weeks of using creatine (the time most sources say it takes to reach saturation), the gains started coming quickly, and I generally felt so much stronger in the mornings during my workouts. That feeling has persisted for the whole time I've used creatine; in fact, I'm about to finish my first tub and just ordered a second.
I was going to say that you naturally adjust do a consistent workout time in teh day, but I figured I'd reply to this whole paragraph. Yes, if you work out consistantly in the early morning, late at night, lunch, whenever, you adapt and "get better" at working out then. When I was in the military, I was wide awake and strong at 6 in the morning, but couldn't workout for shit at night. Now I don't even wake up at 6, and I feel great after work, ready to hit the weights. Creatine supplementation enhances strength training in general, so it added to this effect I'm sure.
On a completely speculative note: I wonder if some day technology could advance to the state where we have "meat factories" (not to be confused with today's morally debatable "factory farms"). What I'm thinking is akin to the hydroponic equivalent of growing muscle fibers without requiring a live animal. Imagine a mesh of artificial nerves floating in a "nutrient bath" of animal stem cells. A computer controls the electrical pulses that simulate nerve activity, and also times releases of synthetic hormones. The environment of nerve and hormonal activity results in the stem cells growing into edible muscle; for example: a pork shoulder or chicken breast or salmon fillet.
Maybe that's the stuff of science fiction, but imagine a whole factory that produces (for example) ultra-premium prime steaks with extreme efficiency: the nutrient bath is tuned exactly to what is being grown, so there is little to no waste; no animals need to be bred or slaughtered, removing the moral issues; since the product is consistent and repeatable, nearly everything can be automated; the environment can be easily kept sterile, greatly reducing the risks of contamination.
Not science fiction, it's been happening for years now. Not at a commercially viable level yet, I don't think, but you see news stories all the time.
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bodybuilding.com is having a 20% off sale today if you use BDAY20 when you check out. I'm grabbing a couple months worth of whey.
That's pretty sweet if you insist on ON Gold or something, I just buy my protein here (http://www.canadianprotein.com/Bulk-Whey-Protein-Concentrate.html), it's a bit less expensive than that 10lb ON sale price. I'm so tempted though because ON is just ridiculously delicious and I don't have space in the budget for a $200 protein order right now.
Yup, I do ON. I used to try different powders, bulk powders (trueprotein, now truenutrition), but I either couldn't gag them down or they didn't mix into solution.
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I eat primal, not paleo. When I did very strict paleo, I found the expense was on average $300/person/month.
Primal lets me get tons of protein from dairy and more grain, otherwise I don't think I'd be able to hit my macros.
The reason I no longer eat $2/lb chicken breast is because that is an absolutely insane prospect. $2 cannot possibly capture all of the costs (externalities) associated with the chicken's feed, waste processing, processing, transport, sale, and then processing when it comes out the other end of my body. It's all held afloat by an obscene system of subsidies and head-in-the-sand ignorance on the part of consumers.
Primal (like mark sison primal?) included grains? Right now I've included oat meal as I don't see any digestive or chronic issues. Milk and most milk by products ruin me. Even whey I can only have in smal doses else I get sinus headaches and eventually infections.
I agree, factory farmed meat is an unsustainable product everyway you look at it. I do buy grass fed meat from a family friend at about $4/lb hanging weight. Unfortunately my protein needs are higher than my fat needs so I still have to turn to leaner cuts like chicken, and organic around here starts at about $6/lb and pastured chicken breasts go for $8-9/lb. When I'm eating upwards of 1.5lb a day it just won't cut it.
I've also tried almost every combo of macro ratio out there. I currently weigh 167 and I've set my protein to 80g/day, 125g, 160, and up to 250g/day. Unfortunately, I see superior strength and body composition benefits with higher protein intakes, while holding calories at the same levels.
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Primal (like mark sison primal?) included grains? Right now I've included oat meal as I don't see any digestive or chronic issues. Milk and most milk by products ruin me. Even whey I can only have in smal doses else I get sinus headaches and eventually infections.
Well, by grains I mean popcorn (which is not primal, but I pan-pop it so pfff), quinoa and oats fairly regularly, and occasionally brown rice and things like tapioca. I also lump white potatoes in there too because they're not expressly paleo.
I have a similar problem with the cheap, sustainable, healthy pyramid (choose two), and if you care about capturing the costs of your decisions, the solution becomes pretty obvious: grow/raise your own, or shoot/catch it. This sidesteps the "cheap" side of the equation by replacing money with time.
I think the easiest way for me to raise some protein in the next twelve months will be keeping rabbits. If you can't possibly fit raising or shooting animals into your life, and you can't afford to opt out of the destructive linear economy, then I think - as a thinking person - you really have to reevaluate your resolve to help improve the world.
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I agree, factory farmed meat is an unsustainable product everyway you look at it. I do buy grass fed meat from a family friend at about $4/lb hanging weight. Unfortunately my protein needs are higher than my fat needs so I still have to turn to leaner cuts like chicken, and organic around here starts at about $6/lb and pastured chicken breasts go for $8-9/lb. When I'm eating upwards of 1.5lb a day it just won't cut it.
If you're in New Jersey (assuming from your username), it should be pretty easy to find a good chicken farmer who'll sell you whole chickens for less than $5/lb--you could probably get to $4 if you buy in bulk. I like the directory at eatwild.com. And remember to save your carcasses for delicious bone broth.
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i don't know as much as you guys about this, my only suggestion is canned tuna. one can is like 50 cents and has about 26g of protein
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I think the easiest way for me to raise some protein in the next twelve months will be keeping rabbits.
I'm not sure why more people don't raise meat rabbits. You can keep them in the city, they take little space, they are prolific breeders, they are high protein and low fat.... maybe this is coming now that backyard hens are becoming more popular.