Author Topic: Low-Cost Protein  (Read 28055 times)

tuyop

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Low-Cost Protein
« on: April 04, 2013, 06:36:33 PM »
Brothers, I need some cheap protein tips.

Off the plate for me, because of epic, room-emptying flatulence, is beans and most bean products excluding hummus. Seriously I once farted in my office and the fire department got called because my coworkers thought there was a gas leak. Nobody ever found out the truth.

So, the goal is to get 150g of protein per day on my portion of my and my partner's $300 grocery budget.

Right now, I'm not sure how sustainable my diet is because I've only been doing it for a week, but it seems like I'm eating a lot of food. Basically, here's how it breaks down.

I'm a 25-year-old, 180lb, 6' male in fairly good shape. (My bench, squat, deadlift total is 990, I can run a sub-19 5k, bike a century, etc.) I'm sitting at around 15% bodyfat.

Meat is a limitation because I only eat local, sustainably-grown, happy meat. I don't care about fish because fish don't have happiness. But this means that meat is a 3 meal/week luxury and makes up about 50-80g of protein per week. The other big players are dairy (including whey) and eggs, with nuts and seeds being the least significant form of protein in my diet. Grains are not a significant part of my diet because my partner has a gluten intolerance.

So, the big question right now is how can I achieve the two goals of maintaining my reasonable grocery budget and hitting my protein goals?

I think adding skim milk to the mix will help things a little, but I'm skeptical that the $2/day for 1L of skim milk, which is 36g of protein, is worth it. It's 20% of my daily food budget for 24% of my daily protein, but it's not that great based on, tuna, for instance. Which is $1.15/can for 40g of protein or 11% of the budget for 26% of the protein, but it has mercury in it so I'm limited to about 120g of protein per week that way, or 11% of my goal.

This is an example of my thinking this way. Basically I'm trying to implement MMM's calorie budgeting except with protein. Any ideas?

Rural

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Re: Low-Cost Protein
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2013, 06:55:19 PM »
I hear the no beans, but can you handle soy? Some people don't react to processed soy the same way as whole beans.

TVP has been a wonder food for us for several years. I order 25 pounds at a time and it lasts the two of us a little over a year as our primary protein, but you'd probably want to start small first and see how the fire department reacts. :-)

http://www.bobsredmill.com/search.php?mode=search&page=1

tuyop

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Re: Low-Cost Protein
« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2013, 06:56:50 PM »
I hear the no beans, but can you handle soy? Some people don't react to processed soy the same way as whole beans.

TVP has been a wonder food for us for several years. I order 25 pounds at a time and it lasts the two of us a little over a year as our primary protein, but you'd probably want to start small first and see how the fire department reacts. :-)

http://www.bobsredmill.com/search.php?mode=search&page=1

Soy is right out too. By far the worst offender, it's almost like an allergic reaction at that point. Raging, horrible poops for three days and I'm pretty sure I killed a lettuce with the odour.

clarkai

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Re: Low-Cost Protein
« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2013, 07:06:34 PM »
I've found that there is a surprising amount of protein in quinoa.

the fixer

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Re: Low-Cost Protein
« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2013, 07:12:28 PM »
What about tempeh? It's fermented soy that your digestive system might tolerate better.

Check out canned Alaska salmon. Low mercury content and, I think, a reasonably cheap source of meat-based protein. I haven't done the math, and personally I don't like the taste of the pink salmon (sockeye tastes good but it's too expensive)

brewer12345

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Re: Low-Cost Protein
« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2013, 07:20:00 PM »
Heh, squirrel meat is pretty tasty and you could probanly trap them in your backyard for free...

How about eggs or egg whites?  Usually a pretty inexpensive source of protein.  Do you have any farms or ranches in the area?  You might be able to buy a quarter of beef or what have you at a time and bring your costs way down.

tuyop

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Re: Low-Cost Protein
« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2013, 07:25:14 PM »
I've found that there is a surprising amount of protein in quinoa.

I love quinoa and eat it fairly regularly, I think that the quinoa that we get from Costco is about $9 for 4lbs.

A serving of quinoa is about 150g (and has nearly 200 calories, which is a tertiary concern) and has 6g of protein. This means that that 6g of protein costs $0.75.

Or, for 7.5% of my daily budget, I get 4% of my protein requirement. This seems to be a problem with most grains, but it's a higher-protein food in that, if you take a serving of tuna AND a serving of quinoa you've hit almost a third of your requirement for protein on only 17.5% of the budget, so the average is pretty good and I think this is the path to success.

Compare that to, say, bell peppers, which I eat fairly regularly, and they're about 10% of a day's budget and do absolutely nothing for protein intake because they're just like water holding hands and may have to be cut out altogether.

the fixer

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Re: Low-Cost Protein
« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2013, 07:34:38 PM »
Do you have any farms or ranches in the area?  You might be able to buy a quarter of beef or what have you at a time and bring your costs way down.
Along those lines, I've heard that you can get meat pretty cheap by buying those whole rotisserie chickens from grocery stores near closing time at a discount. This is something else I don't have personal experience with and haven't done the math on, though.

brewer12345

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Re: Low-Cost Protein
« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2013, 07:41:28 PM »
Do you have any farms or ranches in the area?  You might be able to buy a quarter of beef or what have you at a time and bring your costs way down.
Along those lines, I've heard that you can get meat pretty cheap by buying those whole rotisserie chickens from grocery stores near closing time at a discount. This is something else I don't have personal experience with and haven't done the math on, though.

I shamelessly took advantage of the local grocery stores around thanksgiving and loaded the freezer with several turkeys that they sold for peanuts.  Hard to find cheaper protein.

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Re: Low-Cost Protein
« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2013, 08:06:14 PM »
I think with your limits, eggs and whey are the ticket.  I went for a while with those two as my main sources of protein (along with rice/lentils).  Do lentils have the same issues for you?  They are cheaper per gram of protein than eggs, and rice doesn't have gluten.  Also, powdered milk is much cheaper than regular liquid milk.  Frozen fish can also be found as cheap/cheaper than chicken if you catch it on a sale.

So, you've got:
  • eggs
  • whey
  • rice/lentil (maybe)
  • powdered milk
  • frozen fish when it's on sale

If you work out the price per gram of protein, they are all pretty low.  I've never done the TVP/soy/tofu thing so I can't really comment on that.

mustachecat

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Re: Low-Cost Protein
« Reply #10 on: April 04, 2013, 08:39:15 PM »
Canned sardines might work. They're low on the food chain, so mercury shouldn't be a problem. I like mine mashed up with slices of avocado and lots of hot sauce.

You'll get a better bang for your buck if you opt for less popular meats and cuts. My farmer pretty much gives hog and lamb heads away. If my guy was on board with nose-to-tail eating, I'd be making head cheese all the time. Other bits of offal are usually better priced than steaks and drumsticks and the like. It's getting too warm for this now, but I think tripe is excellent in stews. Pork tongue is lovely braised, with apple sauce and spicy mustard. Beef tongue makes the best tacos. If your local farmer offers smoked cuts, smoked pork hocks are also excellent; I like them with collard greens.

Depending on how strongly you feel about price vs. local, check out Murray's chicken livers. I stir fry them with onions, or make chicken liver mousse, which is daaaaamn fine.

If you don't mind upping your fat, go for whole milk. You won't be getting more protein, but you'll be more satiated from the fat.

purpleqgr

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Re: Low-Cost Protein
« Reply #11 on: April 05, 2013, 01:33:24 AM »
For a cheap, bridge-the-daily-gap protein, I sometimes down one of those 'delicious' protein shakes. You can get the whey protein powders in 5-lb containers from costco or amazon, and the price works out to around 2.5-3 cents / gram, which is right in line with your canned tuna.  It's an acquired taste, but I like them after a workout if I don't have a meat day planned. A single serving is usually right around 25ish grams of protein.

http://www.amazon.com/Most-Popular-Protein-Powders/lm/R10TMVKQ6LM90O

Too bad beans are out!

tuyop

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Re: Low-Cost Protein
« Reply #12 on: April 05, 2013, 03:55:05 AM »
Yeah I rock 60g of whey concentrate a day now, I'm hesitant to add more because I'm not sure of the effectiveness. Best price I've found is here: http://www.canadianprotein.com/Protein--Bulk-25lbs_c_213.html

Canned sardines might work. They're low on the food chain, so mercury shouldn't be a problem. I like mine mashed up with slices of avocado and lots of hot sauce.

You'll get a better bang for your buck if you opt for less popular meats and cuts. My farmer pretty much gives hog and lamb heads away. If my guy was on board with nose-to-tail eating, I'd be making head cheese all the time. Other bits of offal are usually better priced than steaks and drumsticks and the like. It's getting too warm for this now, but I think tripe is excellent in stews. Pork tongue is lovely braised, with apple sauce and spicy mustard. Beef tongue makes the best tacos. If your local farmer offers smoked cuts, smoked pork hocks are also excellent; I like them with collard greens.

Depending on how strongly you feel about price vs. local, check out Murray's chicken livers. I stir fry them with onions, or make chicken liver mousse, which is daaaaamn fine.

If you don't mind upping your fat, go for whole milk. You won't be getting more protein, but you'll be more satiated from the fat.


This is a good idea, I sent a facebook message to my butcher for price comparisons, then we'll see if I can just buy direct. Unfortunately, I'm moving in 8 weeks or so, so buying a bulk order of meat won't happen until after the move.
I think with your limits, eggs and whey are the ticket.  I went for a while with those two as my main sources of protein (along with rice/lentils).  Do lentils have the same issues for you?  They are cheaper per gram of protein than eggs, and rice doesn't have gluten.  Also, powdered milk is much cheaper than regular liquid milk.  Frozen fish can also be found as cheap/cheaper than chicken if you catch it on a sale.

So, you've got:
  • eggs
  • whey
  • rice/lentil (maybe)
  • powdered milk
  • frozen fish when it's on sale

If you work out the price per gram of protein, they are all pretty low.  I've never done the TVP/soy/tofu thing so I can't really comment on that.

Yeah I think you've got it. I'll try tempeh the next time I'm at the store.

Arbor33

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Re: Low-Cost Protein
« Reply #13 on: April 05, 2013, 07:59:31 AM »
Have you looked into hunting and fishing for some of your food?

The upfront costs may be a bit high with the necessary license and guns. In NY it's $40 to get a sportsman license (Large game, small game, and fishing) and then you're looking at about $300-$400 for a rifle. The good thing about owning the gun is that it's not very likely to depreciate in value if you take good care of it.

I've never truly crunched the numbers on what it costs me to fill the freezer but taking a single deer can easily put 40 lbs of meat in your possession for very little financial cost once you own a gun (time is a totally different story).

You could even sell the pelts after if you really wanted to get your costs down.

Fishing is just awesome all around. Doesn't cost much at all and you can fill the freezer really quick. In NY you can take 50 Perch a day, not that you should, and that'll put some serious protein in your diet for the cost of some worms and a cooler full of ice.

I realize to most people this might all sound a bit extreme, or not worth the time, but I'm totally biased because I truly enjoy it. Something you might like to consider though.

limeandpepper

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Re: Low-Cost Protein
« Reply #14 on: April 05, 2013, 08:32:05 AM »
For cheap protein I'm into eggs, yoghurt and cheap cuts of meat or offal. About the bean thing - have you tried introducing them very slowly, very little at a time, into your diet? Your body might just need to get used to digesting them.

tuyop

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Re: Low-Cost Protein
« Reply #15 on: April 05, 2013, 08:42:45 AM »
Have you looked into hunting and fishing for some of your food?

The upfront costs may be a bit high with the necessary license and guns. In NY it's $40 to get a sportsman license (Large game, small game, and fishing) and then you're looking at about $300-$400 for a rifle. The good thing about owning the gun is that it's not very likely to depreciate in value if you take good care of it.

I've never truly crunched the numbers on what it costs me to fill the freezer but taking a single deer can easily put 40 lbs of meat in your possession for very little financial cost once you own a gun (time is a totally different story).

You could even sell the pelts after if you really wanted to get your costs down.

Fishing is just awesome all around. Doesn't cost much at all and you can fill the freezer really quick. In NY you can take 50 Perch a day, not that you should, and that'll put some serious protein in your diet for the cost of some worms and a cooler full of ice.

I realize to most people this might all sound a bit extreme, or not worth the time, but I'm totally biased because I truly enjoy it. Something you might like to consider though.

This is an excellent idea and something that I will definitely save for and start doing in the next six months or so. There's so much food just walking and swimming around that it's not even funny! I also love being outside and walking around the woods and have thoroughly enjoyed the one hunting experience in my life (hunting coyotes), it was just like doing an ambush in the military except without the terror.

Fishing, though. I guess it's a good way to get some podcasts and audiobooks into my ears.

GuitarStv

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Re: Low-Cost Protein
« Reply #16 on: April 05, 2013, 09:29:05 AM »
Put beans back on the plate.  Introduce them into your diet slowly, over a several week period and you won't develop the same amount of flatulence.

Short of that, (and many other great suggestions in this thread) cottage cheese can be had on sale (or in bigger quantities) for pretty cheap.  You can also get roasted soy beans to snack on during the day . . . high protein, cheap, but very dry.

DebtDerp

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Re: Low-Cost Protein
« Reply #17 on: April 05, 2013, 10:30:45 AM »
When I was younger and still lived at home with my family they would buy half of a cow every year and put it in the freezer (you can probably get away with just a quarter cow). It is much more cheaper than going to the grocery store and the meat is sustainable and happy. If you enjoy beef roasts and know how to cook them well you will eat like a KING. They also would buy half of a pig which was pretty good as well. There is really no downside, you know where the meat comes from, you get to save a bunch of money, and because your buying half of an entire cow you get to mix it up with different roasts and steaks instead of eating the same cut of meat all of the time. Win, win.

The one requirement is a large freezer, if you don't have one check out the CL.

TLV

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Re: Low-Cost Protein
« Reply #18 on: April 05, 2013, 10:34:35 AM »
Since you say you can handle hummus, have you tried the chickpeas/garbanzo beans that hummus is made from?

I Love Cake

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Re: Low-Cost Protein
« Reply #19 on: April 05, 2013, 10:39:32 AM »
Brothers, I need some cheap protein tips.

Off the plate for me, because of epic, room-emptying flatulence, is beans and most bean products excluding hummus. Seriously I once farted in my office and the fire department got called because my coworkers thought there was a gas leak. Nobody ever found out the truth.



hahahahahaha!!! Never tell them!

I Love Cake

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Re: Low-Cost Protein
« Reply #20 on: April 05, 2013, 10:40:35 AM »
how about nuts? I think they have a good amount of protein. Raw unsalted almonds?

JD_79

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Re: Low-Cost Protein
« Reply #21 on: April 05, 2013, 11:00:13 AM »
I say, go with the cow idea if possible.  Last time I checked it was like $3 a pound for everything. 

My only other question, is why so much protein? 

JD

tuyop

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Re: Low-Cost Protein
« Reply #22 on: April 05, 2013, 11:03:59 AM »
/\/\/\ I just started the 5/3/1, Jim Wendler says to eat more protein and I trust him because he has a scary amount of tattoos and my lifts have been stalling over the past couple of months. Also, Wendler says that I'm weak like a baby mammal, and baby mammals need milk to grow, so I should probably drink more milk.

how about nuts? I think they have a good amount of protein. Raw unsalted almonds?

The only issue there is calories. I eat almonds pretty much every day, but only like 25 almonds at a time because that's still 200 and something calories. I probably shouldn't worry about it, but I'm on a Quest For Abs before my wedding in August so I try to keep my caloric intake strictly to around 2000 calories per day with 1800 being ideal (as a 6' 180-pound 25-year-old male). They're slowly emerging from my belly fat like neglected dog turds under a snow bank on a spring day.

dragoncar

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Re: Low-Cost Protein
« Reply #23 on: April 05, 2013, 11:13:57 AM »
There are other types of protein powder too -- you could look at pea protein isolate for example.  Or eat beans/peas/lentils and take some extra enzymes like beano

JD_79

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Re: Low-Cost Protein
« Reply #24 on: April 05, 2013, 11:14:20 AM »
Jim knows his stuff.  Make sure you start off low with the 531 and stick to the percentages.

I would def. keep a journal to see if the extra protein really helps.  The only guys I knew that really cared about their protein intake were the hardcore bbers. 

Congrats on the wedding and good luck with the abs. :)

JD


SMMcP

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Re: Low-Cost Protein
« Reply #25 on: April 05, 2013, 11:14:58 AM »
I say, go with the cow idea if possible.  Last time I checked it was like $3 a pound for everything. 

My only other question, is why so much protein? 

JD

I'm with JD, why do you need 150 gms/day.  Per webmd, the average man needs 56 grams of protein per day, 50% more if you are an endurance athlete and twice as much if you are a bodybuilder.  At most that would be 112 grams/day.  Excess protein is very hard on the kidneys and it's a waste.

By the way, low fat cottage cheese has alot of protein and it is very inexpensive.

tuyop

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Re: Low-Cost Protein
« Reply #26 on: April 05, 2013, 11:28:07 AM »
I say, go with the cow idea if possible.  Last time I checked it was like $3 a pound for everything. 

My only other question, is why so much protein? 

JD

I'm with JD, why do you need 150 gms/day.  Per webmd, the average man needs 56 grams of protein per day, 50% more if you are an endurance athlete and twice as much if you are a bodybuilder.  At most that would be 112 grams/day.  Excess protein is very hard on the kidneys and it's a waste.

By the way, low fat cottage cheese has alot of protein and it is very inexpensive.

Mark's daily apple said to aim for .75 - 1g of protein per pound of lean bodymass. Wendler says 1g/lean pound of body mass as well. Rippetoe:

"Most sources within the heavy training community agree that a good starting place is one gram of protein per pound of bodyweight per day, with the rest of the diet making up 2500 - 5000 calories, depending on training requirements and body composition. Although these numbers produce much eyebrow-raising and cautionary statement-issuing from the registered dietetics people, it is a fact that these numbers work well for the vast majority of people that lift weights, and have done so for decades."

I figure that I have about 153lbs of lean bodymass if I'm at 15% bodyfat, which might be a little bit high but I'd rather be conservative in that estimate.

I used to aim for 1.5g/lb for some reason, but I've lost the source. My most excellent gains were seen when I ate 5000+ calories per day for 10 weeks and my deadlift and bench press increased 10lbs and 8lbs a week respectively. It was sick, I also ended up at 200 pounds and none of my clothes fit, so I like this better.

I Love Cake

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Re: Low-Cost Protein
« Reply #27 on: April 05, 2013, 11:29:42 AM »
/\/\/\ I just started the 5/3/1, Jim Wendler says to eat more protein and I trust him because he has a scary amount of tattoos and my lifts have been stalling over the past couple of months. Also, Wendler says that I'm weak like a baby mammal, and baby mammals need milk to grow, so I should probably drink more milk.

how about nuts? I think they have a good amount of protein. Raw unsalted almonds?

The only issue there is calories. I eat almonds pretty much every day, but only like 25 almonds at a time because that's still 200 and something calories. I probably shouldn't worry about it, but I'm on a Quest For Abs before my wedding in August so I try to keep my caloric intake strictly to around 2000 calories per day with 1800 being ideal (as a 6' 180-pound 25-year-old male). They're slowly emerging from my belly fat like neglected dog turds under a snow bank on a spring day.

hahaha you're funny!!

Does your fiancee know about your firetruck worthy farts? How is she arming herself?

tuyop

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Re: Low-Cost Protein
« Reply #28 on: April 05, 2013, 11:45:58 AM »
/\/\/\ I just started the 5/3/1, Jim Wendler says to eat more protein and I trust him because he has a scary amount of tattoos and my lifts have been stalling over the past couple of months. Also, Wendler says that I'm weak like a baby mammal, and baby mammals need milk to grow, so I should probably drink more milk.

how about nuts? I think they have a good amount of protein. Raw unsalted almonds?

The only issue there is calories. I eat almonds pretty much every day, but only like 25 almonds at a time because that's still 200 and something calories. I probably shouldn't worry about it, but I'm on a Quest For Abs before my wedding in August so I try to keep my caloric intake strictly to around 2000 calories per day with 1800 being ideal (as a 6' 180-pound 25-year-old male). They're slowly emerging from my belly fat like neglected dog turds under a snow bank on a spring day.

hahaha you're funny!!

Does your fiancee know about your firetruck worthy farts? How is she arming herself?

Yeah, she mentioned once that she could pick my farts out of a crowd of farts because she's so familiar with their distinctive characteristics. It's horrible, but it goes both ways because she often eats bread products when she's not supposed to and it worries me because I think something has died inside her.

We don't worry about things like farting in front of each other or pooping in the same house. :)

I Love Cake

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Re: Low-Cost Protein
« Reply #29 on: April 05, 2013, 11:58:48 AM »
/\/\/\ I just started the 5/3/1, Jim Wendler says to eat more protein and I trust him because he has a scary amount of tattoos and my lifts have been stalling over the past couple of months. Also, Wendler says that I'm weak like a baby mammal, and baby mammals need milk to grow, so I should probably drink more milk.

how about nuts? I think they have a good amount of protein. Raw unsalted almonds?

The only issue there is calories. I eat almonds pretty much every day, but only like 25 almonds at a time because that's still 200 and something calories. I probably shouldn't worry about it, but I'm on a Quest For Abs before my wedding in August so I try to keep my caloric intake strictly to around 2000 calories per day with 1800 being ideal (as a 6' 180-pound 25-year-old male). They're slowly emerging from my belly fat like neglected dog turds under a snow bank on a spring day.

hahaha you're funny!!

Does your fiancee know about your firetruck worthy farts? How is she arming herself?

Yeah, she mentioned once that she could pick my farts out of a crowd of farts because she's so familiar with their distinctive characteristics. It's horrible, but it goes both ways because she often eats bread products when she's not supposed to and it worries me because I think something has died inside her.

We don't worry about things like farting in front of each other or pooping in the same house. :)

Can spot your farts in a crowd? If that doesn't scream 'true love' then I don't know what does! Providing there aren't too many dutch ovens in your future then you guys will be alright

AJ

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Re: Low-Cost Protein
« Reply #30 on: April 05, 2013, 12:03:04 PM »
Mark's daily apple said to aim for .75 - 1g of protein per pound of lean bodymass. Wendler says 1g/lean pound of body mass as well. Rippetoe:

"Most sources within the heavy training community agree that a good starting place is one gram of protein per pound of bodyweight per day, with the rest of the diet making up 2500 - 5000 calories, depending on training requirements and body composition. Although these numbers produce much eyebrow-raising and cautionary statement-issuing from the registered dietetics people, it is a fact that these numbers work well for the vast majority of people that lift weights, and have done so for decades."

I am forever interested in the source of this common wisdom. RDA for athletes is 1 gram per KG of bodyweight rather than per pound. I have never seen a scientific source that demonstrates the benefit of 1 gram per pound. I am inclined to think that somewhere along the line someone got their kilograms confused with pounds and it entered into colloquial nutrition mythology, and is now just repeated so much that everyone thinks it's fact - like 8 glasses of water per day, or the idea that we only use 10% of our brains.

And given how dogmatic and religious nutrition topics can be, I'm surprised that anyone would recommend trusting "what we've always done" over the advice of trained nutritionists.

Edit to add: upon re-reading I see you quote per pound of LEAN bodymass, which makes more sense (though I still don't know where it comes from). Most people I hear talk about this are eating 1 gram (or more) per pound of bodyweight. Sorry for any confusion...

tuyop

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Re: Low-Cost Protein
« Reply #31 on: April 05, 2013, 12:23:54 PM »
Mark's daily apple said to aim for .75 - 1g of protein per pound of lean bodymass. Wendler says 1g/lean pound of body mass as well. Rippetoe:

"Most sources within the heavy training community agree that a good starting place is one gram of protein per pound of bodyweight per day, with the rest of the diet making up 2500 - 5000 calories, depending on training requirements and body composition. Although these numbers produce much eyebrow-raising and cautionary statement-issuing from the registered dietetics people, it is a fact that these numbers work well for the vast majority of people that lift weights, and have done so for decades."

I am forever interested in the source of this common wisdom. RDA for athletes is 1 gram per KG of bodyweight rather than per pound. I have never seen a scientific source that demonstrates the benefit of 1 gram per pound. I am inclined to think that somewhere along the line someone got their kilograms confused with pounds and it entered into colloquial nutrition mythology, and is now just repeated so much that everyone thinks it's fact - like 8 glasses of water per day, or the idea that we only use 10% of our brains.

And given how dogmatic and religious nutrition topics can be, I'm surprised that anyone would recommend trusting "what we've always done" over the advice of trained nutritionists.

Edit to add: upon re-reading I see you quote per pound of LEAN bodymass, which makes more sense (though I still don't know where it comes from). Most people I hear talk about this are eating 1 gram (or more) per pound of bodyweight. Sorry for any confusion...

Well, it's true that I've always just kind of accepted it, let's see...

Mark's Daily Apple, post is short on sources:

"Experts from the Medical Research Council at the University of College London estimate that, while the typical Western diet today is composed of 49% carbs, 35% fats and 16% protein, the diet of traditional hunter-gatherer populations included twice the protein intake.
...
One of the most common critiques links higher protein diets to impaired kidney function. Recent research suggests, however, that people without prior or developing kidney or liver impairment do not experience any kidney or liver issues with a higher protein intake (1.3 g/kg/day). People most at risk for this kind of kidney stress include those who have a personal or family history of kidney or liver problems or those who have high blood pressure or diabetes. (Because developing kidney and liver problems donít always have obvious symptoms, itís important for your doctor to know your protein intake exceeds conventional recommendations.) People with liver or kidney problems, doctors warn, are less able to process and excrete the waste products (mostly nitrogen left over from amino acid breakdown) that are produced when the body metabolizes protein."


And you can always trust leangains for an aspergers-level analysis of the available research and strange conclusions, but there's no citations for this post:

"Leangains Workout days: 1.5 grams of protein per lb. of lean bodyweight. For simplicityís sake, just take a a few grams off your total unless youíre fat or obese. Then, I recommend a carb to fat ratio of 75/25. What Iím saying is that if you were to eat 100 calories of carbs and fat, 75 of those calories should be carbs and 25 of those should be fat. Keep in mind that this is calories, not grams."

You'd think it would be very straightforward to take 1000 random lifters, give them a program, feed them .5g/lb per day for 12 weeks, 1000 random lifters and feed them 1g/lb on the same program, and 1000 random lifters on 1.5g/lb on the same program and just analyze the results, but I guess nobody's done that.

the fixer

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Re: Low-Cost Protein
« Reply #32 on: April 05, 2013, 12:39:32 PM »
Here's a timely story from NPR about tempeh: http://www.npr.org/blogs/thesalt/2013/04/05/174847636/journey-to-javas-tempeh-village-where-soybean-cakes-are-born

I like to just mix it into a stir fry with some oil, greens, and maybe nuts. I still prefer chicken taste-wise, but this is cheaper.

Tami1982

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Re: Low-Cost Protein
« Reply #33 on: April 05, 2013, 02:08:43 PM »
If you are not interesting in hunting yourself, make friends with a hunter!  My dad and brother are avid hunters and I benefit from it.  No costs for me,  just loads of free/cheap super healthy food.  It only takes the two of them to each get one animal and they have more than they know what to do with.  Last year my dad got a moose and my brother got an elk and a deer.  They gave me a freezer full, and gave away easily 200 plus pounds to friends/family because they simply could not store that much.  It makes them feel good to help out people so they are pretty generous in giving it away.  Sometimes too much!  Hey!  I was going to eat that!   I buy almost zero meat now.  I purchase a couple chickens a year for variety - that's it.   Elk/deer/moose meat are all lean too.   

Saving mom

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Re: Low-Cost Protein
« Reply #34 on: April 05, 2013, 02:29:20 PM »
Are you sure you aren't lactose intolerant? That gives me more digestive issues than beans.

Kriegsspiel

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Re: Low-Cost Protein
« Reply #35 on: April 05, 2013, 03:56:36 PM »
I'm with JD, why do you need 150 gms/day.  Per webmd, the average man needs 56 grams of protein per day, 50% more if you are an endurance athlete and twice as much if you are a bodybuilder.  At most that would be 112 grams/day.  Excess protein is very hard on the kidneys and it's a waste.

By the way, low fat cottage cheese has alot of protein and it is very inexpensive.

Just read some of Lyle McDonalds books and visit his forum if you'd like to learn more about protein requirements for athletes.  He's written an entire book about it.

Tuyop, when I was eating mostly eggs and whey for protein, I was just starting the 531.  I'm at near-PR levels for reps now after 5 cycles through.  It's a very good program. 

Kriegsspiel

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Re: Low-Cost Protein
« Reply #36 on: April 05, 2013, 03:58:28 PM »
Oh, I think the last time I checked the $/g for cottage cheese protein, it was almost more expensive than meat.  Maybe that was an abherrant instance though.

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Re: Low-Cost Protein
« Reply #37 on: April 05, 2013, 04:37:41 PM »
I have no problems with any types of beans, but I've heard that rehydrating dry beans may help with the nuclear farts. Dry beans also have way more fiber and are about 1/2 the cost of canned beans.

As far as protein supplements go, I use www.supplementwarehouse.com. They price match any competitor and you can pick from a large list of free stuff to tack on to your order. I tend to buy Optimum Nutrition's Gold Standard in 10 lbs batchs. It's about $100 for 142 servings and 24 grams of protein per serving... so roughly $0.03/gram of protein.

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Re: Low-Cost Protein
« Reply #38 on: April 05, 2013, 05:30:40 PM »
The athletic demands you place on your body coupled with your comments about peppers, cutting them out of your meal plans makes me wonder if you are getting enough iron?

My husband is an ironman triathlete and getting complete nutrition is step one, then adding in extra protein, iron, calcium requirements, etc necessary for increased workouts is step two.

Peppers have a high amount of vitamin c, vitamin A and a whole lot more than just water! Vitamin c helps aid in the absorption of iron. All of these fruits, vegets, nuts, etc have elements in them that make all the other elements work better.
I use this website a lot for complete nutrition data on a lot of different foods:
http://nutritiondata.self.com

You might be surprised who much or how little actual nutritional value is in various foods we think of as healthy.

While we are not a GF household I do a lot of GF cooking just because I prefer the taste and nutritional value of buckwheat and quinoa flour Blueberry Banana Bread over a plain white flour receipe. I make homemade pizza crusts using buckwheat flour, too.

tuyop

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Re: Low-Cost Protein
« Reply #39 on: April 05, 2013, 08:19:47 PM »
I've tried soaking my beans for like two days and cooking them for hours and it's still terrible.

The athletic demands you place on your body coupled with your comments about peppers, cutting them out of your meal plans makes me wonder if you are getting enough iron?

My husband is an ironman triathlete and getting complete nutrition is step one, then adding in extra protein, iron, calcium requirements, etc necessary for increased workouts is step two.

Peppers have a high amount of vitamin c, vitamin A and a whole lot more than just water! Vitamin c helps aid in the absorption of iron. All of these fruits, vegets, nuts, etc have elements in them that make all the other elements work better.
I use this website a lot for complete nutrition data on a lot of different foods:
http://nutritiondata.self.com

You might be surprised who much or how little actual nutritional value is in various foods we think of as healthy.

While we are not a GF household I do a lot of GF cooking just because I prefer the taste and nutritional value of buckwheat and quinoa flour Blueberry Banana Bread over a plain white flour receipe. I make homemade pizza crusts using buckwheat flour, too.

Well I also eat a pound of broccoli, two carrots, (and this week a pepper) and four cups of greens (arugula, spinach, swiss chard, romaine this week) every day, with sweet potatoes, potatoes, squashes, and sometimes turnips a few times a week.

For fruit I chuck down a three berry frozen blend in the morning and usually an apple or banana.

And I take a multivitamin and a load of b-vitamins and fish oils just in case. You're right about nutrition but I think I've got a good handle on that.

DocCyane

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Re: Low-Cost Protein
« Reply #40 on: April 06, 2013, 10:38:48 AM »
The amount of gas suffered by the OP makes me think he needs a strong probiotic more than anything. Consume yogurt, kimchi or a probiotic beverage like Yakult every day. This will help break down food and protect you from both viral and bacterial illness.

tuyop

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Re: Low-Cost Protein
« Reply #41 on: April 06, 2013, 03:45:29 PM »
The amount of gas suffered by the OP makes me think he needs a strong probiotic more than anything. Consume yogurt, kimchi or a probiotic beverage like Yakult every day. This will help break down food and protect you from both viral and bacterial illness.

Haha, well I fart very rarely as long as I don't eat bean products except hummus.

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Re: Low-Cost Protein
« Reply #42 on: April 06, 2013, 05:37:04 PM »
Meat is a limitation because I only eat local, sustainably-grown, happy meat. I don't care about fish because fish don't have happiness.

You're entitled to your own food choices, but your second sentence really rubbed me the wrong way.

Fish have nervous systems and avoid painful stimuli and release endorphins just like we do to counteract pain. They're way more intelligent than a lot of people give them credit for. A lot of studies just in the past 15 years have shown how they have long-term memory, problem-solving skills, and keep track of social relationships, hierarchies, and traditions. If by "fish" you meant all marine life, octopuses in particular are crazy smart.

Much fish farming happens in horrible conditions just like land animal factory farming - overcrowded tanks of filthy water where fish are suffocating in water filled with waste and parasites and developing open sores. There's even a term called "death crown" where parasites eat down to the bone on fishes' faces.

Oh, and catching fish in the wild? Look up bottom trawling where they drag ridiculously huge nets along the bottom of the ocean, dragging anything and everything in its path, breaking coral and destroying the marine ecosystem, and too bad if any endangered sea life gets in its way. Shrimp trawling is one of the worst, where they often just throw away over 90% of the sea animals they just caught and killed while looking for shrimp.

People can argue about whether animals can really be "happy" or "feel pain" or whatever, but I think just because you can relate to a land mammal better doesn't mean that they're superior to fish and that the well-being of fish should be completely disregarded. I think most people would be horrified to see a cat thrown into a pot of boiling water, but somehow it's ok to throw a live lobster into one because it can't scream?

tuyop

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Re: Low-Cost Protein
« Reply #43 on: April 06, 2013, 09:26:16 PM »
Meat is a limitation because I only eat local, sustainably-grown, happy meat. I don't care about fish because fish don't have happiness.

You're entitled to your own food choices, but your second sentence really rubbed me the wrong way.

Fish have nervous systems and avoid painful stimuli and release endorphins just like we do to counteract pain. They're way more intelligent than a lot of people give them credit for. A lot of studies just in the past 15 years have shown how they have long-term memory, problem-solving skills, and keep track of social relationships, hierarchies, and traditions. If by "fish" you meant all marine life, octopuses in particular are crazy smart.

Much fish farming happens in horrible conditions just like land animal factory farming - overcrowded tanks of filthy water where fish are suffocating in water filled with waste and parasites and developing open sores. There's even a term called "death crown" where parasites eat down to the bone on fishes' faces.

Oh, and catching fish in the wild? Look up bottom trawling where they drag ridiculously huge nets along the bottom of the ocean, dragging anything and everything in its path, breaking coral and destroying the marine ecosystem, and too bad if any endangered sea life gets in its way. Shrimp trawling is one of the worst, where they often just throw away over 90% of the sea animals they just caught and killed while looking for shrimp.

People can argue about whether animals can really be "happy" or "feel pain" or whatever, but I think just because you can relate to a land mammal better doesn't mean that they're superior to fish and that the well-being of fish should be completely disregarded. I think most people would be horrified to see a cat thrown into a pot of boiling water, but somehow it's ok to throw a live lobster into one because it can't scream?

Yes, I totally agree with you, I was mostly joking.

I'm not concerned with fish right now, aside from avoiding farmed fish, because they're wild until the moment they're caught.

I made a decision to eat the meat I do because it was the most morally troubling part of my life. For some reason I don't worry as much about habitat and biodiversity destruction from, say, tuna nets and toilet paper harvested from rain forests as I do the suffering of intelligent animals. I still hate environmentally destructive activities, and I'm working to redesign my lifestyle to minimize my hand in that horrible shit, but I thought I'd pick one thing and really nail it, and domestic meat was that thing.

mushroom

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Re: Low-Cost Protein
« Reply #44 on: April 06, 2013, 10:45:17 PM »
Tuyop, thanks for responding.

Unfortunately there are many things we do in life that could potentially be morally troubling, and we all have to make our own choices. I just think fish can use an advocate since they're not as cute and cuddly and loud as other animals.

Since I'm talking vegetarian anyway, have you ever tried seitan? You can make it pretty easily and cheaply yourself by buying vital wheat gluten in bulk online and flavoring it however you want. Or you can add some vital wheat gluten to lots of things like bread recipes to add some extra protein. You can buy it for under $4 a pound, and just 1/4 cup of it has 23 g of protein and 120 calories.

rue

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Re: Low-Cost Protein
« Reply #45 on: April 07, 2013, 05:29:58 PM »
This is an interesting thread!  This subject comes up alot with the frugal communities I communicate with.  Protein is expensive and these days good organic free range is at a premium.  Despite this I wouldnt skimp on eating good happy meat daily (and I have no medical insurance, believe me if I can do without to save I will!).  Its may have been mentioned already but investing in a chest freezer and a generator and sourcing happy clean meat to stock pile would help to reduce the weekly cost.  Obviously you have to off set the cost of the investment and running costs etc but we have done the numbers (different here as we are in australia) and it is much cheaper.  There is also something satisfying about having a stock pile

Kriegsspiel

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Re: Low-Cost Protein
« Reply #46 on: April 07, 2013, 05:45:46 PM »
Since I'm talking vegetarian anyway, have you ever tried seitan? You can make it pretty easily and cheaply yourself by buying vital wheat gluten in bulk online and flavoring it however you want. Or you can add some vital wheat gluten to lots of things like bread recipes to add some extra protein. You can buy it for under $4 a pound, and just 1/4 cup of it has 23 g of protein and 120 calories.

Damn, at $4 a pound, I'd rather just eat meat. 

StarswirlTheMustached

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Re: Low-Cost Protein
« Reply #47 on: April 07, 2013, 07:14:51 PM »
As someone with digestive issues that include horrible gas, here's how I deal with beans:
0) Start with bulk, dry beans.
1) soak for a day or so
2) Rinse, rinse, and rinse some more.
3) Cook the beans, alone, overnight in a slow cooker.
4) Rinse, rinse, and rinse some more.
5) Cook the beans into whatever you're making.

I can't handle beans if I cook them, from soak, into anything. They have to pre-cook, and you have to get every trace of both the cooking liquid and soaking liquid off them. If you're willing to give it another try and risk time off work, that is...

I also second the probiotic comment. Don't bother with yogurt, though; though that has its benefits, the acidophile bacteria in the yogurt aren't going to do all that much for your intestines where gas happens. I personally had good luck with a Nature's Way supplement; there's a German e-coli supplement* that I cannot currently recall the name of that might help you, too.

That said, this might just be an intolerance that nothing will help. I've got something similar with corn--any corn product and my digestive system completely voids itself out both ends. (and I do mean completely. Dehydration becomes a serious health risk.)

I'd also like to second lentils and chickpeas-- since we know you can handle the chickpeas in hummus. I think someone mentioned that if you know a butcher, go for the weird cuts, and offal. Heart is just about the leanest piece of a cow, and depending where you are, can be had for a song. Tongue? That's a muscle, dude!

And finally, yes. Once hunting season comes 'round again, go murder bambi. Bambi is delicious, lean, and really, really needs her numbers culled.



* "but wait, don't people die from that?" -- there are good strains, and bad strains. Making sure your gut flora is well populated with one of the friendly strains may also lower your risk from one of the evil ones taking over.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2013, 07:16:22 PM by StarswirlTheMustached »

Kriegsspiel

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Re: Low-Cost Protein
« Reply #48 on: April 07, 2013, 07:24:44 PM »
Actually, Lyle has several articles on his site that I hadn't seen before. 

mushroom

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Re: Low-Cost Protein
« Reply #49 on: April 07, 2013, 08:10:13 PM »
Damn, at $4 a pound, I'd rather just eat meat.

Well, vital wheat gluten is a flour so it gets bigger with cooking and absorbing water and such. If you're just talking protein, a pound of vital wheat gluten has 185 g of protein, which is a lot more protein than the 80-100 g of protein in a pound of ground beef, so you can't really compare the dry weight of vital wheat gluten to a pound of meat.