Author Topic: Looking for feedback on a "no retirement" retirement strategy  (Read 10569 times)

Raenia

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Re: Looking for feedback on a "no retirement" retirement strategy
« Reply #50 on: November 27, 2019, 07:29:01 AM »
I noticed that you didn't answer the most important question in @Malkynn's post, so I'll repeat it in the hopes that you can think about it more.

What are you hoping to gain that spending all your money will give you?

Or, to put it another way, What do you plan to spend that money on that you think will make you happy?  Why do you think those things will bring you happiness, or make you no longer feel bored and trapped?

chrisgermany

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Re: Looking for feedback on a "no retirement" retirement strategy
« Reply #51 on: November 27, 2019, 07:37:49 AM »
IMHO saving means to provide your future self with options.
I know lots of formerly ambitious people who have lost their earning power due to job troubles, health or other issues. Some had savings, they could wait it out, get sufficient time for treatment, move to lcol areas or do whatever was needed.
As they were used to not spend all they made it was not difficult for them to cut back.
The spenders were between a rock and a hard place.
You do not need to save for a house.
But you should save to have options at least to have FYmoney. 6 month is not enough.

Valens

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Re: Looking for feedback on a "no retirement" retirement strategy
« Reply #52 on: November 27, 2019, 07:44:01 AM »
Going back to your original post:
  • Buying a house in Toronto is nearly impossible
  • You want to enjoy what life has to offer, and maintain flexibility
  • You have a healthy income
Given these things... what are your goals? I would suggest, for example, that travel is something that you value and want to do a lot of. What are some of the best options to do a lot of travel?
  • Forget buying a house in Toronto, since it's a waste of money for what you get, and greatly reduces your flexibility
  • Minimize spending on things that you value less than travel
  • Save a healthy chunk of your high income and invest it so that it adds to your available resources
  • Learn how to travel inexpensively so you can get a lot of traveling for your money
  • With enough savings and investment, you can work less in time and have even more freedom to travel
How does approaching things with the end goal in mind help your mindset in looking for the best tactics to use to accomplish that goal?

It certainly reframes things in a more appealing light. Something to reflect on while I read the linked articles and MMM posts today.

Boofinator

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Re: Looking for feedback on a "no retirement" retirement strategy
« Reply #53 on: November 27, 2019, 07:48:38 AM »
So I think we agree that financial independence is good, but maybe differ on what that means or how to get there.

I think you're right, in that we may differ on what financial independence means. For most of us here, it is having enough money to never have to need to earn more money. If your plan involves working for the rest of your life, then you will always face the possibility of losing your job and then having to worry about providing for future you.

There's nothing inherently wrong with spending almost everything you have, except you should understand that this approach takes away options from future you, in order that present you can spend your way to happiness.

Valens

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Re: Looking for feedback on a "no retirement" retirement strategy
« Reply #54 on: November 27, 2019, 07:50:54 AM »
I noticed that you didn't answer the most important question in @Malkynn's post, so I'll repeat it in the hopes that you can think about it more.

What are you hoping to gain that spending all your money will give you?

Or, to put it another way, What do you plan to spend that money on that you think will make you happy?  Why do you think those things will bring you happiness, or make you no longer feel bored and trapped?

I didn't answer because I don't really have an answer. The best answer I can give right now is to buy enough distractions to not have time to think about it. I'm good at figuring out what I don't want, less so what I do.

Metalcat

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Re: Looking for feedback on a "no retirement" retirement strategy
« Reply #55 on: November 27, 2019, 08:18:01 AM »
I noticed that you didn't answer the most important question in @Malkynn's post, so I'll repeat it in the hopes that you can think about it more.

What are you hoping to gain that spending all your money will give you?

Or, to put it another way, What do you plan to spend that money on that you think will make you happy?  Why do you think those things will bring you happiness, or make you no longer feel bored and trapped?

I didn't answer because I don't really have an answer. The best answer I can give right now is to buy enough distractions to not have time to think about it. I'm good at figuring out what I don't want, less so what I do.

Again, happy, mentally healthy people don't try to buy distraction from their lives. This is a great option for ending up with a lot of regrets.

You're bored, you aren't happy where you live, you don't love your work, so your answer is to double down on having to live this way forever?

How the fuck does that make any sense?

You do realize that having no mortgage and no dependents that you have every freedom in the world to live however you want to, right?

Trying to spend your way out of malaise simply doesn't work. That's the entire reason this whole community exists.
Spending gets fuuuuuucking boooooooring after awhile, and worse, it leads to hedonic adaptation where you become no longer tolerant of a lower level of spending.

So, you become addicted to spending, but it fails to bring you any level of satisfaction.
Super fun.

If you truly look at the entirety of your life and future and the best option you can think of is to spend everything you earn on consumerism because you can't possibly fathom living a satisfying life overall, so you would rather be stuck in your not-interesting job indefinitely because you can't think of anything better to do...

Well shit.
That's a problem dude.
That's a HUGE problem.

Raenia

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Re: Looking for feedback on a "no retirement" retirement strategy
« Reply #56 on: November 27, 2019, 08:21:59 AM »
I noticed that you didn't answer the most important question in @Malkynn's post, so I'll repeat it in the hopes that you can think about it more.

What are you hoping to gain that spending all your money will give you?

Or, to put it another way, What do you plan to spend that money on that you think will make you happy?  Why do you think those things will bring you happiness, or make you no longer feel bored and trapped?

I didn't answer because I don't really have an answer. The best answer I can give right now is to buy enough distractions to not have time to think about it. I'm good at figuring out what I don't want, less so what I do.

It seems a bit premature to be deciding if you want to be able to retire when you're 80, when you don't even know what would make current-you happy, don't you think?  I'd set aside the choice to never retire, and focus your attention on learning about the needs of current-you.  To be clear, that doesn't mean distracting yourself so you don't notice how unhappy you are, that means careful introspection and exploration of options.

Do you have any hobbies that you like to spend time on?  Do you cook?  Hike?  Read?  Paint?  Do you have friends you could build deeper connections with?  Do you know and like your neighbors, to build more community feeling?  Any extended family to keep in touch with?

It sounds like your job doesn't bring any deep fulfillment, so why assume you'll want to do it forever?

neo von retorch

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Re: Looking for feedback on a "no retirement" retirement strategy
« Reply #57 on: November 27, 2019, 08:30:36 AM »
Sheesh @Malkynn I guess this is Face Punch Culture 101?

Maybe this person is here to start trouble and mock our ideas. That's not the sense I get, and despite some harsh criticism of his/her naive ideas about how to find happiness in life and how to manage money, they've stuck it out and are trying to learn from us. Hopefully they learn from past mistakes, our guidance, and all the literature we have access to on how to better extract life satisfaction from what this planet has to offer.

In my opinion, hopefully they don't learn our less palatable methods of attacking people for knowing less than we do.

Valens

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Re: Looking for feedback on a "no retirement" retirement strategy
« Reply #58 on: November 27, 2019, 08:36:27 AM »
Again, happy, mentally healthy people don't try to buy distraction from their lives. This is a great option for ending up with a lot of regrets.

You're bored, you aren't happy where you live, you don't love your work, so your answer is to double down on having to live this way forever?

How the fuck does that make any sense?

You do realize that having no mortgage and no dependents that you have every freedom in the world to live however you want to, right?

Trying to spend your way out of malaise simply doesn't work. That's the entire reason this whole community exists.
Spending gets fuuuuuucking boooooooring after awhile, and worse, it leads to hedonic adaptation where you become no longer tolerant of a lower level of spending.

So, you become addicted to spending, but it fails to bring you any level of satisfaction.
Super fun.

If you truly look at the entirety of your life and future and the best option you can think of is to spend everything you earn on consumerism because you can't possibly fathom living a satisfying life overall, so you would rather be stuck in your not-interesting job indefinitely because you can't think of anything better to do...

Well shit.
That's a problem dude.
That's a HUGE problem.

Yes, it is. But it's a nut I haven't been able to crack for 15 years. Everything you've said is true, but the problem has been intractable for me for so long. I'm not sure what the answer is to what would lead to happiness, fulfillment or whatever you want to call it, which is probably why I'm doubling down on distraction.

Valens

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Re: Looking for feedback on a "no retirement" retirement strategy
« Reply #59 on: November 27, 2019, 08:48:59 AM »
It seems a bit premature to be deciding if you want to be able to retire when you're 80, when you don't even know what would make current-you happy, don't you think?  I'd set aside the choice to never retire, and focus your attention on learning about the needs of current-you.  To be clear, that doesn't mean distracting yourself so you don't notice how unhappy you are, that means careful introspection and exploration of options.

Do you have any hobbies that you like to spend time on?  Do you cook?  Hike?  Read?  Paint?  Do you have friends you could build deeper connections with?  Do you know and like your neighbors, to build more community feeling?  Any extended family to keep in touch with?

It sounds like your job doesn't bring any deep fulfillment, so why assume you'll want to do it forever?

It's something I've struggled to answer for a long time and I still don't have an answer. I have hobbies, great and loyal friends, a fantastic girlfriend even. But I guess those aren't the things I'm looking for, which isn't to say I'd ever want to lose them.

Raenia

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Re: Looking for feedback on a "no retirement" retirement strategy
« Reply #60 on: November 27, 2019, 09:05:02 AM »
Alright, let's try another tack.  The point here is to get you thinking about how you spend your time and which things aren't working.

What do you imagine spending money on to distract yourself?

- Going out to eat?  Would it be more fun to learn a new recipe and surprise your GF, or cook with her, or host a potluck dinner party with friends instead?
- Going to the movies?  Would it be more fun to host a movie viewing at home with your GF or friends, using netflix or a library dvd?
- Going to concerts or stage shows?  Join a local community theater group, or a choir.
- Going on vacation to fancy places?  Try deep dives into places closer to home and learn about the history and culture of your own country, or go abroad and stay in smaller towns and really learn about the people and culture instead of staying in fancy hotels or resorts.

The other thing I think you should consider is speaking to a therapist.  I'm of the opinion that just about everyone can benefit from therapy, not only people with diagnosed conditions.  Your mental health is clearly suffering, so why not get some help?  You may have something in your mindset preventing you from seeing solutions.

Either way, the problem you have isn't a money problem, so spending money won't fix it.  You need to find the real causes of your unhappiness if you ever want to be happy.  Deciding not to retire is only going to guarantee that you wind up 80 years old, poor, and still unhappy because you still won't know what you want in life.

Metalcat

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Re: Looking for feedback on a "no retirement" retirement strategy
« Reply #61 on: November 27, 2019, 09:07:54 AM »
Sheesh @Malkynn I guess this is Face Punch Culture 101?

Maybe this person is here to start trouble and mock our ideas. That's not the sense I get, and despite some harsh criticism of his/her naive ideas about how to find happiness in life and how to manage money, they've stuck it out and are trying to learn from us. Hopefully they learn from past mistakes, our guidance, and all the literature we have access to on how to better extract life satisfaction from what this planet has to offer.

In my opinion, hopefully they don't learn our less palatable methods of attacking people for knowing less than we do.

I see this person's current emotional and psychological state as deeply alarming, and it's my personal style to be incredibly direct. This is how I speak to the people I love as well, and for some reason, they don't tend to slap me, and usually thank me for verbally shaking them a little.

In my own, odd way, this is me being genuinely caring in the only effective way I know how to be.

Metalcat

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Re: Looking for feedback on a "no retirement" retirement strategy
« Reply #62 on: November 27, 2019, 09:17:43 AM »
Again, happy, mentally healthy people don't try to buy distraction from their lives. This is a great option for ending up with a lot of regrets.

You're bored, you aren't happy where you live, you don't love your work, so your answer is to double down on having to live this way forever?

How the fuck does that make any sense?

You do realize that having no mortgage and no dependents that you have every freedom in the world to live however you want to, right?

Trying to spend your way out of malaise simply doesn't work. That's the entire reason this whole community exists.
Spending gets fuuuuuucking boooooooring after awhile, and worse, it leads to hedonic adaptation where you become no longer tolerant of a lower level of spending.

So, you become addicted to spending, but it fails to bring you any level of satisfaction.
Super fun.

If you truly look at the entirety of your life and future and the best option you can think of is to spend everything you earn on consumerism because you can't possibly fathom living a satisfying life overall, so you would rather be stuck in your not-interesting job indefinitely because you can't think of anything better to do...

Well shit.
That's a problem dude.
That's a HUGE problem.

Yes, it is. But it's a nut I haven't been able to crack for 15 years. Everything you've said is true, but the problem has been intractable for me for so long. I'm not sure what the answer is to what would lead to happiness, fulfillment or whatever you want to call it, which is probably why I'm doubling down on distraction.

Have you considered a sabbatical? Is that at all a possibility?

Omg, you have so many options, I think you need to seriously consider blowing up your life a bit and trying something radically different.

I used to feel trapped in a very high paying job that was making me miserable, and I didn't have the housing problem you have, but virtually all of my income was going towards my massive student debt, so I do understand *deeply* the feeling of making a lot of money and not getting a lot from it.

A medical crisis forced me out of my job, forced me to take a massive pay cut, and forced me to re examine how to live my best life, and it legit was the best thing that could have ever happened to me.

Funnily enough, my health emergency actually turned out to be a diagnosis of a rare genetic disorder that is not treatable, and my health has actually gotten worse, and my career as I know it has been COMPLETELY destroyed, and you know what? I'm pretty cool with it.

Why???
Because I know that I have soooo many options, because my spending is so low that I can do whatever work I want to and still have plenty to live well, because truthfully, I was starting to get bored and I'm excited to have an opportunity to change gears without feeling the pressure to maintain my previous income level.

I might focus on my side hustles, I might get another degree, I'm not sure yet. In fact, my biggest stress right now is that I have too many great options and I have to pick, which will close some doors for now.

My options are severely limited by a serious and debilitating disease with no cure and I'm more excited about my options and my future than you are. That's not right.

Maybe you need the conceptual equivalent of a doctor telling you that your career is dead. I don't know what that would be, but it's time for you to start thinking way outside the box in the opposite direction of what you are thinking right now.

You've tried for 15 years to find happiness on your current path.

...maybe consider a very very different path?




Valens

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Re: Looking for feedback on a "no retirement" retirement strategy
« Reply #63 on: November 27, 2019, 09:19:27 AM »
I see this person's current emotional and psychological state as deeply alarming, and it's my personal style to be incredibly direct. This is how I speak to the people I love as well, and for some reason, they don't tend to slap me, and usually thank me for verbally shaking them a little.

In my own, odd way, this is me being genuinely caring in the only effective way I know how to be.

It's all good Malkynn, I appreciate your directness. The only thing that has made me uncomfortable are my own posts which have been perhaps a bit too open/revealing.

Metalcat

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Re: Looking for feedback on a "no retirement" retirement strategy
« Reply #64 on: November 27, 2019, 09:25:49 AM »
I see this person's current emotional and psychological state as deeply alarming, and it's my personal style to be incredibly direct. This is how I speak to the people I love as well, and for some reason, they don't tend to slap me, and usually thank me for verbally shaking them a little.

In my own, odd way, this is me being genuinely caring in the only effective way I know how to be.

It's all good Malkynn, I appreciate your directness. The only thing that has made me uncomfortable are my own posts which have been perhaps a bit too open/revealing.

Yeah, that's a common reaction when sharing, but remember, you only have a brief posting history and haven't shared any real info. Right now, you're still completely anonymous.

Give it some time and get whatever value you can from this thread. If after the emotional dust settles you feel regret about what you've shared, then you can just ghost this account. No big deal.

I don't think you've shared anything too much, this place has its best value when people are willing to be kind of raw.
I guarantee you're not the only one here feeling the way you do.

Villanelle

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Re: Looking for feedback on a "no retirement" retirement strategy
« Reply #65 on: November 27, 2019, 09:54:12 AM »
It seems to me like it might be time to put financial questions on the back burner.  Sure, that means you lose some time in the market, and some time maximizing your savings.  But the bet motivator to do those things and stick with them is to know why you are doing them.  Without that, any changes you make are unlikely to last.

So addressing who you are, who you want to be, and the kinds of things that will move you in that direction is going to be key.

What's important to me--truly important?
What makes you happy--not distracted, but happy?
What makes you content?
What does a life well-lived look like to you?
What about your current life makes you unhappy or dissatisfied?
If you could create a bucket list with 5 items and they would be assured (in that you'd be given the opportunity--not guarantee you'll summit Everest if that's on the list, but you'll get there and be giving a spot on a climb), for your entire life, what would those be?  Twenty items?

I'd start with questions like that. 

Also, you said that you didn't realize this is an environmental or minimalism blog.  It's not, but it's also not not.  The thing is that these things are all tied.  Buying fewer things is good for your finances, the planet, and your overstuffed junk drawer.  Likewise, it's not a philosophical blog, but it's not not.  Because philosophy can help use define for ourselves a good, rewarding life, and it can also help us understand why we spend and in doing so, how to spend less.  Think like hedonistic adaptation come in to play here.

I started a post a while back entitled something like, "what if money does my happiness", which on the surface in anathema to MMM.  But what I said is that careful, thoughtful spending and making some expensive choices--mostly precisely where we decided to live after an international move--actually did contribute to my quality of life, in meaningful ways and ways that I feel are aligned with my values.

There are plenty of people here who spend a lot of money.  $100k+.  None of this is really about just spending less.  It's about spending--and not spending--thoughtfully.  If a great cup of coffee really makes someone feel good, in the ways they find important, then money spent on good beans and a fancy machine  is probably "worth it", even if they could get by with a $.11 cup of instant.

I'm sitting at a coffee shop right now, drinking a $3 London Fog.  I walked here.  When I arrived, they started my drink without me having to tell them what I wanted, because the know my drink.  It's a locally-owned, non-chain place. I can see and smell them roasting their own beans right now.  I tip well because the staff is great, and I suspect they really appreciate that tip. I come here to write in support of my dream and goal to become a published novelist? 

All of that is money that is 100% unnecessary.  But this--being a part of a community, supporting a local business, having a sense of familiarity (which warms my socially anxious, cold, dark heart), working toward a long-held dream?  It's exactly the life I want.  And every penny spent here is a well-considered, thoroughly-examined decision.

Once you figure out the life stuff, a lot of the money stuff falls in to place.  Because you realize you don't care about cars, so you buy a 5 yo modest car and drive it until the wheels fall off.  (Or whatever line item makes sense for you.)

It's not always a comfortable path.  But it is so, so worth it and frankly, I think the money and the chance to retire isn't at or maybe even near the top of the list of benefits. 

Valens

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Re: Looking for feedback on a "no retirement" retirement strategy
« Reply #66 on: November 27, 2019, 09:56:15 AM »
Have you considered a sabbatical? Is that at all a possibility?

Omg, you have so many options, I think you need to seriously consider blowing up your life a bit and trying something radically different.

I used to feel trapped in a very high paying job that was making me miserable, and I didn't have the housing problem you have, but virtually all of my income was going towards my massive student debt, so I do understand *deeply* the feeling of making a lot of money and not getting a lot from it.

A medical crisis forced me out of my job, forced me to take a massive pay cut, and forced me to re examine how to live my best life, and it legit was the best thing that could have ever happened to me.

Funnily enough, my health emergency actually turned out to be a diagnosis of a rare genetic disorder that is not treatable, and my health has actually gotten worse, and my career as I know it has been COMPLETELY destroyed, and you know what? I'm pretty cool with it.

Why???
Because I know that I have soooo many options, because my spending is so low that I can do whatever work I want to and still have plenty to live well, because truthfully, I was starting to get bored and I'm excited to have an opportunity to change gears without feeling the pressure to maintain my previous income level.

I might focus on my side hustles, I might get another degree, I'm not sure yet. In fact, my biggest stress right now is that I have too many great options and I have to pick, which will close some doors for now.

My options are severely limited by a serious and debilitating disease with no cure and I'm more excited about my options and my future than you are. That's not right.

Maybe you need the conceptual equivalent of a doctor telling you that your career is dead. I don't know what that would be, but it's time for you to start thinking way outside the box in the opposite direction of what you are thinking right now.

You've tried for 15 years to find happiness on your current path.

...maybe consider a very very different path?

I'm sorry to hear about your condition, I doubt I could even conceive what that must be like.

I've done a sabbatical. A couple of years ago, when I hadn't had a vacation in 8 years, I took a year off and spent some of that time travelling. I met my girlfriend and we spent the rest of that year mostly in bars. We've since limited that activity since it isn't sustainable. Then I got my current gig which is the same thing I was doing before but pays better.

I'm open to blowing up my life and going in a new direction, but it's the same problem as before, which is "what direction?" I know you can't answer that for me. There's a quote by Schwarzenegger that I always come back to: "I still remember that first visit to the bodybuilding gym. I had never seen anyone lifting weights before. Those guys were huge and brutal... And there it was before me - my life, the answer I'd been seeking. It clicked. It was something I suddenly just seemed to reach out and find, as if I'd been crossing a suspended bridge and finally stepped off onto solid ground."

Now, I'm not about to attempt a bodybuilding career but I'd definitely like to get off this bridge.

dodojojo

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Re: Looking for feedback on a "no retirement" retirement strategy
« Reply #67 on: November 27, 2019, 10:07:45 AM »
OP, I'm in a somewhat similar boat.  Live in a HCOL area and can't buy where I currently live and have a high SR so I opt to rent.  I will likely retire in an extreme HCOL area so I'm resigning myself to being a lifetime renter.  I actually don't mind renting but sometimes pine for home ownership for lifestyle reasons (multi-pet household for example).  But not being able to own a home comfortably seems to make you to give up and spend away.  Whereas, I don't feel that way--I want to save so I can pay my rent when I no longer work.

Also in the same boat of not knowing what I want to be or do that will truly make me up happy.  And I'm lot older than you....Again, though, spending my money isn't the first solution that comes to mind for this problem.

However, I am not the most MMMer out there and will not scrimp and save every penny to an inch of my life so I can shave off a year or two of work.  Long story, there's some medium...I just know that not saving at all would stress me out much more and make me unhappier.

Raenia

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Re: Looking for feedback on a "no retirement" retirement strategy
« Reply #68 on: November 27, 2019, 10:10:23 AM »
+1 to Villanelle's suggestions, and to everything Malkynn says.

You may benefit from reading the book "Your Money or Your Life" by Vicki Robin and Joe Dominguez.  Focus on the mindfulness and personal values, rather than the investing strategies and savings tips.  This is not a problem about money, but about determining your priorities.  It sounds like you use money as a crutch to avoid thinking about difficult things.  You need to decouple those things in order to find a path to happiness and develop a healthier relationship with money as well.

Metalcat

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Re: Looking for feedback on a "no retirement" retirement strategy
« Reply #69 on: November 27, 2019, 10:26:50 AM »

I'm sorry to hear about your condition, I doubt I could even conceive what that must be like.

I've done a sabbatical. A couple of years ago, when I hadn't had a vacation in 8 years, I took a year off and spent some of that time travelling. I met my girlfriend and we spent the rest of that year mostly in bars. We've since limited that activity since it isn't sustainable. Then I got my current gig which is the same thing I was doing before but pays better.

I'm open to blowing up my life and going in a new direction, but it's the same problem as before, which is "what direction?" I know you can't answer that for me. There's a quote by Schwarzenegger that I always come back to: "I still remember that first visit to the bodybuilding gym. I had never seen anyone lifting weights before. Those guys were huge and brutal... And there it was before me - my life, the answer I'd been seeking. It clicked. It was something I suddenly just seemed to reach out and find, as if I'd been crossing a suspended bridge and finally stepped off onto solid ground."

Now, I'm not about to attempt a bodybuilding career but I'd definitely like to get off this bridge.

Oh, I'm fine, my life is pretty awesome.
I would have been utterly miserable had this illness not knocked me off of my highly lucrative path, and I would have gotten sucked into the consumerist spending compensations that the rest of my miserable, high-earning colleagues get into just to try and feel like all the bullshit is worth it.

Where I'm incredibly lucky is that I'm tremendously easily inspired to do new things. I get that Schwarzenegger vibe pretty much every few months. I have a small backlog of jobs I'm dying to try.


Eowyn_MI

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Re: Looking for feedback on a "no retirement" retirement strategy
« Reply #70 on: November 27, 2019, 10:35:17 AM »
snip...

Now, I'm not about to attempt a bodybuilding career but I'd definitely like to get off this bridge.

I am the last person who would recommend starting a bodybuilding career but have you ever tried lifting weights?  I'm talking about something like powerlifting or Olympic lifting where there is a skill component and a strength component.  For me, it is incredibly rewarding to be able to see progress in skill development over time.  And they say that it's good for your brain to learn a new physical skill. 

Also, if I am physically tired out, I start to really appreciate a "boring" desk job if only for the recovery time.

mozar

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Re: Looking for feedback on a "no retirement" retirement strategy
« Reply #71 on: November 27, 2019, 10:56:34 AM »
I recommend the books Quitter by jon acuff and "it's not always depression "
Not everyone has a moment where everything clicks. Also you can have lots of clicks too. Schwarzenegger (and society) make it sound like we're supposed to build up to this one moment of clarity and then be happy doing that one thing for the next 40 years. Did Schwarzenegger have this moment of clarity when he decided to become an actor? When he went into politics? He probably wanted to try different things, and you can too.  Schwarzenegger isn't a professional body builder anymore. And I bet he's glad he saved some money.

I don't know what kind of savings you have currently but say you had 1 million right now you could retire and you wouldn't have to worry about having a direction.  Don't you want that option for future you? That's what savings and financial independence gives you: options.

Oh and you know how Schwarzenegger made his first million? Real estate investing. He only made 75k for his first movie so he likely had that 1st million to fall back on.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2019, 11:03:40 AM by mozar »

Metalcat

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Re: Looking for feedback on a "no retirement" retirement strategy
« Reply #72 on: November 27, 2019, 11:03:52 AM »
I recommend the books Quitter by jon acuff and "it's not always depression "
Not everyone has a moment where everything clicks. Also you can have lots of clicks too. Schwarzenegger (and society) make it sound like we're supposed to build up to this one moment of clarity and then be happy doing that one thing for the next 40 years. Did Schwarzenegger have this moment of clarity when he decided to become an actor? When he went into politics? He probably wanted to try different things, and you can too.  Schwarzenegger isn't a professional body builder anymore. And I bet he's glad he saved some money.

I don't know what kind of savings you have currently but say you had 1 million right now you could retire and you wouldn't have to worry about having a direction.  Don't you want that option for future you? That's what savings and financial independence gives you: options.

Bingo. I get clicks all the time, but I don't want to do anything for 40 years.

Even Schwarzenegger didn't do competitive body building for 40 years, he's had wild career swings along the way.

Valens

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Re: Looking for feedback on a "no retirement" retirement strategy
« Reply #73 on: November 27, 2019, 11:11:34 AM »
snip...

Now, I'm not about to attempt a bodybuilding career but I'd definitely like to get off this bridge.

I am the last person who would recommend starting a bodybuilding career but have you ever tried lifting weights?  I'm talking about something like powerlifting or Olympic lifting where there is a skill component and a strength component.  For me, it is incredibly rewarding to be able to see progress in skill development over time.  And they say that it's good for your brain to learn a new physical skill. 

Also, if I am physically tired out, I start to really appreciate a "boring" desk job if only for the recovery time.

I train five days per week, although for me it's bodybuilding over powerlifting or Olympic.

Valens

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Re: Looking for feedback on a "no retirement" retirement strategy
« Reply #74 on: November 27, 2019, 11:45:46 AM »
You guys have given me a lot to think about. I've read through the linked articles and I'm sure there are plenty more MMM posts that will be helpful. For now I will focus on retiring the last of my debt and building up my e-fund a bit more. Then I should be able to sock away ~$4000/month without much trouble. In the meantime I can figure out what kind of investment vehicle(s) to use.

Thanks for taking the time to respond, it is much appreciated.

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Re: Looking for feedback on a "no retirement" retirement strategy
« Reply #75 on: November 27, 2019, 11:57:06 AM »
I recommend the books Quitter by jon acuff and "it's not always depression "
Not everyone has a moment where everything clicks. Also you can have lots of clicks too. Schwarzenegger (and society) make it sound like we're supposed to build up to this one moment of clarity and then be happy doing that one thing for the next 40 years. Did Schwarzenegger have this moment of clarity when he decided to become an actor? When he went into politics? He probably wanted to try different things, and you can too.  Schwarzenegger isn't a professional body builder anymore. And I bet he's glad he saved some money.

I don't know what kind of savings you have currently but say you had 1 million right now you could retire and you wouldn't have to worry about having a direction.  Don't you want that option for future you? That's what savings and financial independence gives you: options.

Bingo. I get clicks all the time, but I don't want to do anything for 40 years.

Even Schwarzenegger didn't do competitive body building for 40 years, he's had wild career swings along the way.

And just as a contrast, I'm not sure I've ever, in my 44 rotations around this planet had a click in the way that Schwarzenegger described. 

I think it's important to recognize that some people will never get that.  Sure, plenty of people do, but it's not a realistic expectation for everyone so to wait for it is highly unwise. 

I just have things that I like.  And people that I adore, and over time, bouncing around around among those things, I've found some things that make me content and satisfied and happy.  And that make me feel challenged and interested.  But never once was there a "Eureka!" moment.  It was more like wearing jeans.  You try on a pair, they don't work, you don't buy them.  And sometimes, even the ones you buy end up being a mistake; after you have them on for an hour, the ass is saggy and the are slipping off your hips.  And maybe it's the pair that are slightly uncomfortable and unattractive at first, but 15 minutes in, when they are warmed up and relaxed, they are perfection.

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Re: Looking for feedback on a "no retirement" retirement strategy
« Reply #76 on: November 27, 2019, 12:23:01 PM »
I can say that old age comes faster than you expect. We balanced some travel with our need to save.  Now at 65 very grateful for pensions and our savings.  Enjoy things in the present but save for the future.

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Re: Looking for feedback on a "no retirement" retirement strategy
« Reply #77 on: November 27, 2019, 03:26:24 PM »

Thanks for the feedback. I'll take a look at the Investment Order link. If I were to invest, I'd be inclined towards passive funds, which sounds like what you're referring to. However, and my math might be off here so please correct me if I'm wrong, when I assume a 10% annual return and saving $2000 per month for 20 years I come back with $1.45 million. That would buy you a small house in Toronto today, and maybe nothing in 20 years.

$2k a month is a pittance of a contribution if you're making $130k pa, and your housing is $1,700 a month all utilities included. You pay something like $2k per month in taxes.

You have another $5k/month unaccounted for. 

Linea_Norway

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Re: Looking for feedback on a "no retirement" retirement strategy
« Reply #78 on: November 28, 2019, 12:42:45 AM »

Thanks for the feedback. I'll take a look at the Investment Order link. If I were to invest, I'd be inclined towards passive funds, which sounds like what you're referring to. However, and my math might be off here so please correct me if I'm wrong, when I assume a 10% annual return and saving $2000 per month for 20 years I come back with $1.45 million. That would buy you a small house in Toronto today, and maybe nothing in 20 years.

$2k a month is a pittance of a contribution if you're making $130k pa, and your housing is $1,700 a month all utilities included. You pay something like $2k per month in taxes.

You have another $5k/month unaccounted for.

Exactly. I recently saw an add from a pension fund that showed a picture of a grown up man (40-50) and the message that he saved 4.000 euros a year!
Maybe such a message makes an impression on normal people, but DH and I save about 20 times that much in a year (when working full time), so I wasn't impressed at all.

I am pretty sure you could even save up for a Toronto house if you used your full saving capabilities. Still, buying a house there might not be the best financial choice. But in your case, I would build up a good amount of stash to be able to do something completely different from what you are doing now: move, very different job for any kind of pay, retirement.

Freedomin5

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Re: Looking for feedback on a "no retirement" retirement strategy
« Reply #79 on: November 28, 2019, 02:14:33 AM »

Thanks for the feedback. I'll take a look at the Investment Order link. If I were to invest, I'd be inclined towards passive funds, which sounds like what you're referring to. However, and my math might be off here so please correct me if I'm wrong, when I assume a 10% annual return and saving $2000 per month for 20 years I come back with $1.45 million. That would buy you a small house in Toronto today, and maybe nothing in 20 years.

$2k a month is a pittance of a contribution if you're making $130k pa, and your housing is $1,700 a month all utilities included. You pay something like $2k per month in taxes.

You have another $5k/month unaccounted for.

Actually, it’s pretty normal for Toronto.  Assume 50% effective tax rate, so take home is around $5k per month. $1700 for rent and $2000 savings. You’re left with $1300 to spend. $1000 for gas and car insurance (insurance and gas are very expensive in the Greater Toronto Area) and you’re left with $300 for food and other stuff. If you’re spending like a normal person.

former player

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Re: Looking for feedback on a "no retirement" retirement strategy
« Reply #80 on: November 28, 2019, 02:51:06 AM »
You guys have given me a lot to think about. I've read through the linked articles and I'm sure there are plenty more MMM posts that will be helpful. For now I will focus on retiring the last of my debt and building up my e-fund a bit more. Then I should be able to sock away ~$4000/month without much trouble. In the meantime I can figure out what kind of investment vehicle(s) to use.

Thanks for taking the time to respond, it is much appreciated.
Can I just say: good on you for staying in the conversation and being open to what people have been saying?  It's not all that common, and I think it's a great indicator for you to find a way through your questions to an answer that works for you.  Good luck.

Metalcat

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Re: Looking for feedback on a "no retirement" retirement strategy
« Reply #81 on: November 28, 2019, 06:06:58 AM »

Thanks for the feedback. I'll take a look at the Investment Order link. If I were to invest, I'd be inclined towards passive funds, which sounds like what you're referring to. However, and my math might be off here so please correct me if I'm wrong, when I assume a 10% annual return and saving $2000 per month for 20 years I come back with $1.45 million. That would buy you a small house in Toronto today, and maybe nothing in 20 years.

$2k a month is a pittance of a contribution if you're making $130k pa, and your housing is $1,700 a month all utilities included. You pay something like $2k per month in taxes.

You have another $5k/month unaccounted for.

Actually, it’s pretty normal for Toronto.  Assume 50% effective tax rate, so take home is around $5k per month. $1700 for rent and $2000 savings. You’re left with $1300 to spend. $1000 for gas and car insurance (insurance and gas are very expensive in the Greater Toronto Area) and you’re left with $300 for food and other stuff. If you’re spending like a normal person.

Am I missing something in the effective tax rate?
Total income tax on 130K assuming no RRSP savings is 40K, so take home of 90K. If that 2K/mo is going into RRSPs, then the total income tax is only 30K.


TomTX

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Re: Looking for feedback on a "no retirement" retirement strategy
« Reply #82 on: November 28, 2019, 08:03:08 AM »

Actually, it’s pretty normal for Toronto.  Assume 50% effective tax rate, so take home is around $5k per month.

Detail where that's coming from, as the Canadian income tax tables I found had OP around $2k in taxes.

mistymoney

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Re: Looking for feedback on a "no retirement" retirement strategy
« Reply #83 on: November 28, 2019, 09:37:14 AM »
Have you considered a sabbatical? Is that at all a possibility?

Omg, you have so many options, I think you need to seriously consider blowing up your life a bit and trying something radically different.

I used to feel trapped in a very high paying job that was making me miserable, and I didn't have the housing problem you have, but virtually all of my income was going towards my massive student debt, so I do understand *deeply* the feeling of making a lot of money and not getting a lot from it.

A medical crisis forced me out of my job, forced me to take a massive pay cut, and forced me to re examine how to live my best life, and it legit was the best thing that could have ever happened to me.

Funnily enough, my health emergency actually turned out to be a diagnosis of a rare genetic disorder that is not treatable, and my health has actually gotten worse, and my career as I know it has been COMPLETELY destroyed, and you know what? I'm pretty cool with it.

Why???
Because I know that I have soooo many options, because my spending is so low that I can do whatever work I want to and still have plenty to live well, because truthfully, I was starting to get bored and I'm excited to have an opportunity to change gears without feeling the pressure to maintain my previous income level.

I might focus on my side hustles, I might get another degree, I'm not sure yet. In fact, my biggest stress right now is that I have too many great options and I have to pick, which will close some doors for now.

My options are severely limited by a serious and debilitating disease with no cure and I'm more excited about my options and my future than you are. That's not right.

Maybe you need the conceptual equivalent of a doctor telling you that your career is dead. I don't know what that would be, but it's time for you to start thinking way outside the box in the opposite direction of what you are thinking right now.

You've tried for 15 years to find happiness on your current path.

...maybe consider a very very different path?

I'm sorry to hear about your condition, I doubt I could even conceive what that must be like.

I've done a sabbatical. A couple of years ago, when I hadn't had a vacation in 8 years, I took a year off and spent some of that time travelling. I met my girlfriend and we spent the rest of that year mostly in bars. We've since limited that activity since it isn't sustainable. Then I got my current gig which is the same thing I was doing before but pays better.

I'm open to blowing up my life and going in a new direction, but it's the same problem as before, which is "what direction?" I know you can't answer that for me. There's a quote by Schwarzenegger that I always come back to: "I still remember that first visit to the bodybuilding gym. I had never seen anyone lifting weights before. Those guys were huge and brutal... And there it was before me - my life, the answer I'd been seeking. It clicked. It was something I suddenly just seemed to reach out and find, as if I'd been crossing a suspended bridge and finally stepped off onto solid ground."

Now, I'm not about to attempt a bodybuilding career but I'd definitely like to get off this bridge.

As wonderful as that may have been for him - I wouldn't spend my life waiting for a similar epiphany. I don't think most of us are gifted with either that level of passion for something, and consequently - aren't gifted with that level of clarity.

vector

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Re: Looking for feedback on a "no retirement" retirement strategy
« Reply #84 on: November 28, 2019, 09:47:45 AM »




$1000 for gas and car insurance (insurance and gas are very expensive in the Greater Toronto Area)

Are you sure? Last time I looked the insurance was 200-250/month and gas couldn't be 750/month. I don't own a car so I don't know what I'm talking about, but for 12k/year you could perpetually rent a car.

V

Freedomin5

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Re: Looking for feedback on a "no retirement" retirement strategy
« Reply #85 on: November 28, 2019, 03:48:49 PM »

Actually, it’s pretty normal for Toronto.  Assume 50% effective tax rate, so take home is around $5k per month.

Detail where that's coming from, as the Canadian income tax tables I found had OP around $2k in taxes.

Does your table include both federal and provincial taxes?

TomTX

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Re: Looking for feedback on a "no retirement" retirement strategy
« Reply #86 on: November 28, 2019, 05:45:59 PM »

Actually, it’s pretty normal for Toronto.  Assume 50% effective tax rate, so take home is around $5k per month.

Detail where that's coming from, as the Canadian income tax tables I found had OP around $2k in taxes.

Does your table include both federal and provincial taxes?

Okay, that takes it to around 29%. Still far short of the 50% you're claiming. And I didn't even get into various deductions.

Your turn, bub. Back up the claim or back off.

Metalcat

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Re: Looking for feedback on a "no retirement" retirement strategy
« Reply #87 on: November 28, 2019, 07:45:02 PM »

Actually, it’s pretty normal for Toronto.  Assume 50% effective tax rate, so take home is around $5k per month.

Detail where that's coming from, as the Canadian income tax tables I found had OP around $2k in taxes.

Does your table include both federal and provincial taxes?

Okay, that takes it to around 29%. Still far short of the 50% you're claiming. And I didn't even get into various deductions.

Your turn, bub. Back up the claim or back off.

Whoa la, why the aggression?

Although, as I posted above, 50% effective be tax rate seems way, way off, speaking as an Ontarian who has had years making almost exactly 130K.

formerlydivorcedmom

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Re: Looking for feedback on a "no retirement" retirement strategy
« Reply #88 on: December 04, 2019, 02:27:36 PM »
I second the recommendation to read "Your Money or Your Life" (but ignore the investment advice).  It's a really great book because it has step-by-step instructions on how to examine your life, through your spending of money and time, to determine what is really meaningful for you and what truly adds value to your life.

We cut out whole spending categories and changed part of our lifestyle.  (Goodbye cable! Took the 12-year-old six months to notice we didn't have it anymore) 
I started saying "No" to a lot of things and focusing my time on the things that made me happier.

My husband and I also set short-term and long-term financial goals for ourselves.  They are along these lines
  • retire in X year with $Y
  • Save $Z for college educations for the kids by 2024
  • Pay off credit cards each month
  • take a minimum of 1 large vacation each year
  • H gets $X/year for his car hobby
Plus, the big goal: Don't be miserable.

Big decisions get evaluated in part on how they impact our goals. At one point, H quit his job and went back to school for 3 years.  It set our retirement goal back a bit, but it satisfied the "don't be miserable" goal.  He now has a totally different career he likes better...and the 3 years he was a part-time stay-at-home dad made an immeasurable impact on our son.  Without a big bucket of savings, we wouldn't have been able to do that.

I walked away from a job with a great pension and took a lower salary because the old job was soul-sucking boredom.  At some point I may transition to part-time work. 

Over Thanksgiving my brother-in-law told us about a personal situation he's in right now.  He has a plan to handle it, but we were able to write a check to relieve one of his worries.  It felt good to know that even though we are still 8-9 years from retirement, we have the money to make a difference to people we care about.

To me, money is security and freedom (and vacations).  What does it mean to you?

utaca

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Re: Looking for feedback on a "no retirement" retirement strategy
« Reply #89 on: December 04, 2019, 03:27:11 PM »
MMM wrote a post specifically on how renting saves you money in HCOL cities such as Toronto. In fact, he used Toronto as his example and ran through the numbers using a $2000/month condo in downtown TO.

Another way to afford Toronto if you MUST buy is to househack. The market is softening and you may be able to get a 1 or 3 bedroom townhouse for around the same price as a downtown condo. Live in one bedroom and rent out the other(s) to help you cover the mortgage.

Finally, you have to remember that you don’t really need to spent $1.5 million to buy a $1.5M house. We have a $500k condo in Toronto that we put $70k of our own money towards. The renter paid it off for us. Also, with Toronto real estate appreciation, the $1M house you buy today will likely be worth a lot more in twenty years.

Also, how are you not contributing to a public pension? Do you (or your employer) not contribute to CPP? Is that even legal?

Finally, the biggest concern I would have if I were using your retirement strategy is the potential for job loss. I’d like to know that I have income coming in regardless of whether I’m employed.

In any case, saving $2k is pretty respectable for Canada. I’m guessing your tax rate is around 50% Since you’re probably not contributing to RRSP to reduce your taxable income. So your take home is what? ~65k per year or $5k per month? You could probably increase your savings rate by a bit.

I'll look for that post. In regards to CPP, I'm self-employed/incorporated and I take my income as dividends so as not to contribute to CPP.

Jesus, this makes your plan even worse: you won't even have CPP when you stop working/are unable to work any longer! I guess there's always welfare after you blow through your three to six months savings in, well, three to six months.

neo von retorch

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Re: Looking for feedback on a "no retirement" retirement strategy
« Reply #90 on: December 04, 2019, 04:54:19 PM »
@Valens last active 3 days ago. Will they come back?!

dandarc

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Re: Looking for feedback on a "no retirement" retirement strategy
« Reply #91 on: December 04, 2019, 04:58:59 PM »
@Valens last active 3 days ago. Will they come back?!
Betting they decided ERE forums would be more receptive to the idea than here.

henramdrea

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Re: Looking for feedback on a "no retirement" retirement strategy
« Reply #92 on: December 06, 2019, 10:29:31 AM »
@Valens last active 3 days ago. Will they come back?!
Betting they decided ERE forums would be more receptive to the idea than here.

Well I think you all have given him/her/them a lot to ponder and think about and hopefully begin working on.
It can be life altering to have invisible hands come through your computer screen and shake you into thinking more about the future.

arebelspy

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Re: Looking for feedback on a "no retirement" retirement strategy
« Reply #93 on: January 04, 2020, 12:15:23 AM »
I can see where the OP's head is at.

Hard to see grinding for 30 years unhappily to end up with a mere 1.5M, which wouldn't cover (at 4%) the spending you were doing. Where's the appeal?

That being said, once you embrace the idea that spending doesn't equate to happiness, you can see an endpoint carrot: FIRE.

When being sent here, OP had no idea what we were about. That's gotta be disorienting.

You guys have given me a lot to think about. I've read through the linked articles and I'm sure there are plenty more MMM posts that will be helpful. For now I will focus on retiring the last of my debt and building up my e-fund a bit more. Then I should be able to sock away ~$4000/month without much trouble. In the meantime I can figure out what kind of investment vehicle(s) to use.

Thanks for taking the time to respond, it is much appreciated.

Good work. Keep reading, keep learning.

At some point, you may decide it's worth decoupling your time from having to earn money, work for a half dozen or a dozen years to reach financial independence, then do whatever you want all day. You may not have the crossed bridge idea yet, and maybe never will... but I can bet your current work certainly isn't it. FI gives you options.

Good luck!
I am a former teacher who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, spent some time traveling the world full time and am now settled with three kids.
If you want to know more about me, this Business Insider profile tells the story pretty well.
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Valens

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Re: Looking for feedback on a "no retirement" retirement strategy
« Reply #94 on: August 14, 2020, 10:35:49 AM »
Well it's been a while. The world sure took a dump since I last posted here. I've been lucky enough that my income has not been disrupted. That said, I've made some progress but find myself becoming frustrated again.

The progress: I've paid off all my debt (except my car loan but I'm not upside down on it and it's only 2% interest) and I've increased my emergency fund to $30000 and put $10000 in the market.

The frustration: Now that I'm building up savings I'm trying to think of things to do with it. ie. What am I saving for? The problem is whenever I run the numbers for saving $4200/month and assuming an aggressive 8% average return per year it still doesn't get me anywhere. After 10 years I'd have ~$780K and even then I can't really touch it. And that would be 10 years of aggressive saving where I can't take more than a weekend getaway. I've thought about buying a property outside the GTA and renting it or buying a property abroad and using it for airbnb and a vacation home but again it will take years to save up enough for a down payment and even then the purchase essentially wipes me out, leaving me in a precarious position should anything go wrong. Is the only option open to me just to save enough that hopefully when I can't work anymore I can live off the return? It's not very motivating.

I know there are options other than real estate but I keep coming back to it because I don't like where I live. I looked at moving to another apartment but the cost is high. I pay about $1800/month all-in now, but to move to a similar sized apartment in a better area would cost ~$3600/month. Paying double doesn't seem worth it not just because of the direct cost but also the opportunity cost of having $1800/month less to save or spend.

Just saving money and working is boring. I need something to do with my money that can earn a good return and act as some kind of project. Just parking my money in the market isn't motivating. But interesting projects seem to always require capital far in excess of my means.

mozar

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Re: Looking for feedback on a "no retirement" retirement strategy
« Reply #95 on: August 14, 2020, 12:06:56 PM »
Sure, just saving money is boring. A lot of people get to a point where they've made everything automated and paid off all debts and there's nothing left  to "do."

Only you can answer what it is you are saving for. It is up to you to decide what brings meaning to your life.

This particular website is about the idea of "enough." You're not going to get much sympathy here about "only" having 780k ten years from now.

It sounds like its important to you to be able to spend your full salary each year and unless you can save a few million to keep your current lifestyle it's not worth it.

I personally can't relate to that but my advice is to seek a line of work that pays more, like sales, so that you can earn more, spend the same, and save more.


I just think you would like a forum like bogleheads better than this one.

Metalcat

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Re: Looking for feedback on a "no retirement" retirement strategy
« Reply #96 on: August 14, 2020, 12:20:00 PM »
You really only have two choices here if you want to continue on in the life you are leading: either learn to live happily on the amount of money you are making, or make more money.

It doesn't sound like you're particularly sold on being able to be happy living a frugal life, at least not in the way you are living now, so the alternative of figuring out how to make more money might be a better way to go.

Either way, you don't sound very happy with your life or it's trajectory, so it's time to start actively looking at ways to significantly change it. I would really start thinking outside the box and looking at what you actually need in order to be happy, because this obviously isn't it.

Valens

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Re: Looking for feedback on a "no retirement" retirement strategy
« Reply #97 on: August 14, 2020, 12:33:17 PM »
This particular website is about the idea of "enough." You're not going to get much sympathy here about "only" having 780k ten years from now.

It sounds like its important to you to be able to spend your full salary each year and unless you can save a few million to keep your current lifestyle it's not worth it.

No, I don't need to spend my full salary each year. My point is that if I were to save $4200/month for 10 years, during that time all I'd be able to do (at my current income) is one or two weekend getaways per year. Everything else would go to expenses. I like being smart/efficient with my money but I definitely have some limits around quality of life. I have no interest in buying a new car every 4 years or anything like that but I'd like to go out for a nice meal once a week with friends and have a couple weeks vacation somewhere every year. As for "only" 780k, it represents a lot of work just to maintain the status quo. Hardly motivating.

Valens

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Re: Looking for feedback on a "no retirement" retirement strategy
« Reply #98 on: August 14, 2020, 12:44:07 PM »
You really only have two choices here if you want to continue on in the life you are leading: either learn to live happily on the amount of money you are making, or make more money.

It doesn't sound like you're particularly sold on being able to be happy living a frugal life, at least not in the way you are living now, so the alternative of figuring out how to make more money might be a better way to go.

Either way, you don't sound very happy with your life or it's trajectory, so it's time to start actively looking at ways to significantly change it. I would really start thinking outside the box and looking at what you actually need in order to be happy, because this obviously isn't it.

I don't necessarily have a problem with the amount I make. It's more an issue of time, age and opportunity cost. If I was 20, then 10 years and 780k looks more attractive. I can put that money into something, have some left over and have lots of time to build up savings again. But if I save up 780k over 10 years now, and then put it towards something, I won't have time to rebuild savings. If whatever I invest that money into loses money then I'm screwed.

Zikoris

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Re: Looking for feedback on a "no retirement" retirement strategy
« Reply #99 on: August 14, 2020, 12:49:34 PM »
This particular website is about the idea of "enough." You're not going to get much sympathy here about "only" having 780k ten years from now.

It sounds like its important to you to be able to spend your full salary each year and unless you can save a few million to keep your current lifestyle it's not worth it.

No, I don't need to spend my full salary each year. My point is that if I were to save $4200/month for 10 years, during that time all I'd be able to do (at my current income) is one or two weekend getaways per year. Everything else would go to expenses. I like being smart/efficient with my money but I definitely have some limits around quality of life. I have no interest in buying a new car every 4 years or anything like that but I'd like to go out for a nice meal once a week with friends and have a couple weeks vacation somewhere every year. As for "only" 780k, it represents a lot of work just to maintain the status quo. Hardly motivating.

Well, you could always change your expenses. They're not set in stone. Case in point: As a couple, we earn substantially less than you, save more than you, and also travel to about five or six countries a year, and do four or five weekend getaways on top of that. There's no such thing as fixed expenses. If you axe everything from your spending that you don't care about, you can funnel tons of money into what you do care about, and also save like crazy and retire early.

Honestly, as far as quality of life goes, your sounds pretty bad by my standards. Having to work indefinitely and only getting to travel 2 weeks a year or less sounds like my personal hell. In terms of sacrifice, I don't think there's a much bigger sacrifice a person can make than working 40+ years when there's so much fun stuff you could be doing instead, unless you absolutely love your job.