Author Topic: Living on a river/sea? (UK)  (Read 2852 times)

mohawkbrah

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 272
  • Age: 23
  • Location: Herefordshire, UK
  • every day they see me hustling those pennies away
Living on a river/sea? (UK)
« on: October 02, 2016, 09:11:56 AM »
Just been pondering about this, im not talking about a river barge or house boat. But simply a small boat with a cabin with a bed in and the likes. constantly on the move or anchored on the river, this way you can move along if people start sniffing around looking to tax you for something. And you're not too large to cause a nuisance, mooring fee's for repairs would be cheaper i imagine aswell the smaller the boat is.

also same questions regarding living at sea too. Im not a fussy man and love to live alone in a small space with some internet and food XD
« Last Edit: October 02, 2016, 09:20:37 AM by mohawkbrah »

mozar

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2903
Re: Living on a river/sea? (UK)
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2016, 12:21:52 PM »
Have you seen this video?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMKJR5n4gLw

I understand wanting to minimize taxes, but consider that the government maintains those waterways, and passes regulations so their not polluted.

former player

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4255
  • Location: Avalon
Re: Living on a river/sea? (UK)
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2016, 02:30:58 PM »
I think the unpredictable weather and fierce tides would make the plan difficult in the UK, as pretty much all of the safe anchorages for a small boat will be subject to harbour dues (there are six hundred statutory harbour authorities round the UK coast with the power to impose dues).  Same goes for inland waterways: the river authorities will collect, sooner or later.

There are a couple of better ideas, I think.  One is to look at the Mediterranean: better weather and negligible tides means many more anchorages that don't need to be paid for, for example around Greece and Croatia.  The other is to look at the Low Countries which gives you the possibility of a comfortable barge needing far fewer sailing skills, and while you will have to pay river dues there is no income tax to pay if you spend less than 90 days in one country during the year, which is easily done by moving between Netherlands/Belgium/Luxembourg/France/Germany and is an option used by a community of  IT people working from their barge homes.

jim555

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2009
Re: Living on a river/sea? (UK)
« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2016, 03:29:08 PM »
It is like tiny house living only on the water.  Interesting alternative.

cerat0n1a

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1414
  • Location: England
Re: Living on a river/sea? (UK)
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2016, 04:16:15 AM »
Just been pondering about this, im not talking about a river barge or house boat. But simply a small boat with a cabin with a bed in and the likes. constantly on the move or anchored on the river, this way you can move along if people start sniffing around looking to tax you for something. And you're not too large to cause a nuisance, mooring fee's for repairs would be cheaper i imagine aswell the smaller the boat is.

Any river that is navigable in Britain is under control of the Canal & River trust - what you're talking about is what they call a "Continuous cruiser" i.e. not staying in any one spot for more than 2 weeks and making some kind of onward journey rather than shuttling back and forward between two moorings near to a job. There's a few thousand people living like this in Britain, way less than the total number living on a houseboat with more permanent moorings. There's mountains of stuff on the internet (& books) about the practical details of doing this, can be a very, very cheap way of living if you don't need to work and can look after a boat yourself. The Canal & River Trust is pretty hot on enforcing the rules - making sure people pay the licenses, mooring fees etc.  - no way will you be able to do this without appropriate papers etc.

former player

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4255
  • Location: Avalon
Re: Living on a river/sea? (UK)
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2016, 04:41:57 AM »
Any river that is navigable in Britain is under control of the Canal & River trust

Not quite - the Norfolk and Suffolk Broads have their own Authority, the Environment Agency manages the Upper Thames (above Teddington) and the Port of London Authority the Thames below that.  Scotland has its own equivalent authority and there may be some other exceptions, too.

The basic point about navigable rivers being regulated is of course right.  The Maritime and Coastguard Agency have a page about it - https://www.gov.uk/guidance/inland-waterways-and-categorisation-of-waters

Doubleh

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 276
  • Location: London
Re: Living on a river/sea? (UK)
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2016, 06:03:31 AM »
I know a little about this as I live on a canalboat, albeit with a permanent mooring. Its correct that the Canal & River Trust (CaRT) are taking steps to crack down on people overstaying on canals without a mooring, this is generally targeted at people who need to stay in a small area for work, schools etc and try avoiding the need for a mooring by shuttling back and forth along a stretch of canal.

If you don't need to be in a particular area and want to cruise up and down the canals you are using the system exactly as it is intended, and should have no problems with enforcement. Then all you would need is a licence, which for a small boat would be maybe a couple of hundred pounds a year.

Before this I lived on a small sailing boat, again with a mooring in a city centre marina - this is very doable and there are many people living this way, mostly unofficially and under the radar. Living for free at anchor in rivers and bays is a much more difficult prospect, the great british weather can be harsh and at times unpredictable. You would need lots of skills and good equipment, such as an anchor large enough that people laugh when they see it.

I'd suggest the canal option would be by far the best way to start, and you don't need a barge. In central London I see many people on small fibreglass river cruisers, or decommissioned ships lifeboats, that can be bought for a few thousand pounds.

Everything you want to know can be found on www.canalworld.net

KCM5

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 868
Re: Living on a river/sea? (UK)
« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2016, 06:09:32 AM »
Yes, you can live without paying council tax as long as you aren't mooring permanently, but you're probably not going to be able to get away without paying a license fee. The license fee is paid by length, so a small boat would be inexpensive. I second the above suggestions to look at canalworld.net. Also, take a look at some of the available boats on apolloduck.co.uk. The traditional narrowboats will be more expensive than, say, a small fiberglass boat. So keep that in mind.

teen persuasion

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1056
Re: Living on a river/sea? (UK)
« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2016, 06:13:43 AM »
Interesting idea.

What about winter?  The canal in my area is drained from say November to April or so, and would be frozen even if it were not.  The river between the lakes has an ice boom installed each winter, too.  One lake generally freezes, the other deeper one does not entirely.

cerat0n1a

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1414
  • Location: England
Re: Living on a river/sea? (UK)
« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2016, 06:34:50 AM »
Interesting idea.

What about winter?  The canal in my area is drained from say November to April or so, and would be frozen even if it were not.  The river between the lakes has an ice boom installed each winter, too.  One lake generally freezes, the other deeper one does not entirely.

Not really an issue in the UK, where sustained temperatures below 0C are not common. I'd think pipes freezing on the boat, keeping yourself warm & icy surfaces when you get on/off the boat (e.g. for lock ladders) would be the main potential problems. A few places (but not many) you might get an issue with thawing snow raising water levels and causing problems with low bridges & mooring, but it's not usual.

cerat0n1a

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1414
  • Location: England
Re: Living on a river/sea? (UK)
« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2016, 06:48:35 AM »
Any river that is navigable in Britain is under control of the Canal & River trust

Not quite - the Norfolk and Suffolk Broads have their own Authority, the Environment Agency manages the Upper Thames (above Teddington) and the Port of London Authority the Thames below that.  Scotland has its own equivalent authority and there may be some other exceptions, too.

Yes, good point. For the purposes of cruising, I think I'm right in sayng that you can't get to Scotland from England/Wales via the canal/river system?

The Broads has very few permanent residential moorings and is very much geared up to holiday cruises. Don't think I've ever seen people living permanently on boats when I've been up there, whereas there are quite a lot on the Fens. Equally I suppose if you kept a low profile, didn't use the quays for storage or hog the popular overnight moorings, people in the broads are very laid back. I think I'm right in saying that it's quite hard to get to from the rest of the canal system - there's been a few new canals built in recent years to try to connect up East Anglia with the rest. Even getting from the northern broads to the southern broads means braving the tide at Yarmouth which is a test of sailing skills.

mohawkbrah

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 272
  • Age: 23
  • Location: Herefordshire, UK
  • every day they see me hustling those pennies away
Re: Living on a river/sea? (UK)
« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2016, 10:45:52 AM »
Thankyou for all the information guys.

as i've read into it more, id be more likely to avoid the rivers and waterways and instead focus mainly on the open sea. i found out that 3g can reach out about 8 miles from the coast anywhere in the UK but north scotland :D. arrrrr i be a pirate i will.

im looking at sailboats with an engine as well. tis all very exciting and im almost in love with the idea of just going to other country's at the drop of a hat. id anchor off the coast and go to shore with a motor dingy. maintaining the boat could be problematic as i would rather not pay someone else to do it so could be a steep learning curve
« Last Edit: October 03, 2016, 11:14:45 AM by mohawkbrah »

jim555

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2009
Re: Living on a river/sea? (UK)
« Reply #12 on: October 03, 2016, 11:16:53 AM »
Yes, you can live without paying council tax as long as you aren't mooring permanently, but you're probably not going to be able to get away without paying a license fee.
Not in the UK but curious - so how much would council tax run for a boat with a permanent mooring?

shelivesthedream

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4530
  • Location: London, UK
Re: Living on a river/sea? (UK)
« Reply #13 on: October 03, 2016, 11:19:34 AM »
I know a couple of people living on canal boats in various states of repair, most with permanent moorings but one who is just starting cruising. Cruising sounds quite stressful to me. One couple I know tried it but couldn't take the moving every two weeks and said the savings just weren't worth the upheaval - they now have a permanent mooring in a marina (I think) with toilet and shower facilities. Much nicer!

Is this a FIRE plan or are you still working? I'd want to try it out before committing to it - maybe renting a boat for a month (ideally in the depths of winter!).

KCM5

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 868
Re: Living on a river/sea? (UK)
« Reply #14 on: October 03, 2016, 11:33:34 AM »
Yes, you can live without paying council tax as long as you aren't mooring permanently, but you're probably not going to be able to get away without paying a license fee.
Not in the UK but curious - so how much would council tax run for a boat with a permanent mooring?

I'm sorry, but I don't actually know. We're planning on moving to a boat in the UK in the future, so I've done some research but haven't nailed down hard numbers yet. From what I understand it would be the mooring itself that the Council Tax is due on, not the boat, so I don't imagine it would be very much.

Regarding the council tax, its interesting that you can get permanent moorings (the type that you would be expected to pay council tax) or a leisure mooring, which you can occupy almost all the time but you must show that you have a residence elsewhere, technically, which would be shown by providing a copy of council tax paid. 

Doubleh

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 276
  • Location: London
Re: Living on a river/sea? (UK)
« Reply #15 on: October 04, 2016, 09:32:24 AM »
Council tax on moorings is a hoary old chestnut that you can read about to your hearts content on live aboard websites. However its not actually a huge deal, and is generally set as the lowest band in the particular area (band A). For our mooring we pay around 60 per month council tax in central London.

OP you certainly can live on an ocean going boat and sail around the coast  - that is still our long term plan. But there's a lot to learn, I'd suggest you look at the RYA website and do at least competent crew and day skipper before even thinking about buying a boat, and sail as much as you can on other peoples. And the uk is not the ideal place to do this, the weather can be brutal at times. Eastern med (greece and turkey) or the caribbean are the traditional choices of the impecunious sailor looking for a cheap and simple life

There is another good forum at ybw.com, look for the liveaboard sub forum.

JrDoctor

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 103
Re: Living on a river/sea? (UK)
« Reply #16 on: October 05, 2016, 03:00:44 PM »
Sounds like living aboard a boat will be a full time job.  Considered just upping your wage so you can afford a house?

dreams_and_discoveries

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 929
  • Location: London, UK
Re: Living on a river/sea? (UK)
« Reply #17 on: October 06, 2016, 10:54:19 AM »
To be honest, I would guess living at sea is much more expensive than on land, and would be very hard on such small amounts as 120k total stache.

If you want somewhere quiet, scenic and away from it all, a caravan in a field seems much more realistic, especially on your current budget.

Also, you suit me as someone who would thrive in a caretaker type job in a remote setting, looking after property - is that something you'd consider?

mohawkbrah

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 272
  • Age: 23
  • Location: Herefordshire, UK
  • every day they see me hustling those pennies away
Re: Living on a river/sea? (UK)
« Reply #18 on: October 06, 2016, 11:53:14 PM »


Also, you suit me as someone who would thrive in a caretaker type job in a remote setting, looking after property - is that something you'd consider?

i am a care taker already lol

Playing with Fire UK

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2538
Re: Living on a river/sea? (UK)
« Reply #19 on: October 08, 2016, 01:09:43 AM »


Also, you suit me as someone who would thrive in a caretaker type job in a remote setting, looking after property - is that something you'd consider?

i am a care taker already lol

Have you looked into something like a remote YHA or NT role where accommodation is provided? [ I have not, they may be rare, but the Great Orme farmer search that enabled someone to pay a 1 GBP annual rent caught my eye]

former player

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4255
  • Location: Avalon
Re: Living on a river/sea? (UK)
« Reply #20 on: October 08, 2016, 01:32:44 AM »


Also, you suit me as someone who would thrive in a caretaker type job in a remote setting, looking after property - is that something you'd consider?

i am a care taker already lol
Being a care taker aged 20 is a hard row to hoe, and I hope you have tapped all the sources of help available to you.  Your local council's social services should be able to assist with providing in-home carers or respite care.  Your GP surgery may have suggestions for health service assistance.  Citizens' Advice Bureau can check that you are receiving all the appropriate welfare payments and tax credits.  There will be local charities or disability/disease specific charities which can provide advice and assistance.  Residential care need not be a bad thing.

I've been a care taker too, although not at such a young age or for a long period.  Don't be guilted into letting your life be held hostage: there are ways out and aged 20 you need to be looking for them, rather than putting your life on hold for someone else, for whom there are always other options. Remember to put on your own lifejacket.

shelivesthedream

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4530
  • Location: London, UK
Re: Living on a river/sea? (UK)
« Reply #21 on: October 08, 2016, 01:47:35 AM »


Also, you suit me as someone who would thrive in a caretaker type job in a remote setting, looking after property - is that something you'd consider?

i am a care taker already lol
Being a care taker aged 20 is a hard row to hoe, and I hope you have tapped all the sources of help available to you.  Your local council's social services should be able to assist with providing in-home carers or respite care.  Your GP surgery may have suggestions for health service assistance.  Citizens' Advice Bureau can check that you are receiving all the appropriate welfare payments and tax credits.  There will be local charities or disability/disease specific charities which can provide advice and assistance.  Residential care need not be a bad thing.

I've been a care taker too, although not at such a young age or for a long period.  Don't be guilted into letting your life be held hostage: there are ways out and aged 20 you need to be looking for them, rather than putting your life on hold for someone else, for whom there are always other options. Remember to put on your own lifejacket.

From previous posts, I think he works as a janitor for minimum wage and wants to retire on a few thousand a year.

mohawkbrah

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 272
  • Age: 23
  • Location: Herefordshire, UK
  • every day they see me hustling those pennies away
Re: Living on a river/sea? (UK)
« Reply #22 on: October 08, 2016, 06:52:13 AM »


Also, you suit me as someone who would thrive in a caretaker type job in a remote setting, looking after property - is that something you'd consider?

i am a care taker already lol
Being a care taker aged 20 is a hard row to hoe, and I hope you have tapped all the sources of help available to you.  Your local council's social services should be able to assist with providing in-home carers or respite care.  Your GP surgery may have suggestions for health service assistance.  Citizens' Advice Bureau can check that you are receiving all the appropriate welfare payments and tax credits.  There will be local charities or disability/disease specific charities which can provide advice and assistance.  Residential care need not be a bad thing.

I've been a care taker too, although not at such a young age or for a long period.  Don't be guilted into letting your life be held hostage: there are ways out and aged 20 you need to be looking for them, rather than putting your life on hold for someone else, for whom there are always other options. Remember to put on your own lifejacket.

From previous posts, I think he works as a janitor for minimum wage and wants to retire on a few thousand a year.

^

people always laugh me off, but im dead serious about it.

shelivesthedream

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4530
  • Location: London, UK
Re: Living on a river/sea? (UK)
« Reply #23 on: October 08, 2016, 07:11:53 AM »


Also, you suit me as someone who would thrive in a caretaker type job in a remote setting, looking after property - is that something you'd consider?

i am a care taker already lol
Being a care taker aged 20 is a hard row to hoe, and I hope you have tapped all the sources of help available to you.  Your local council's social services should be able to assist with providing in-home carers or respite care.  Your GP surgery may have suggestions for health service assistance.  Citizens' Advice Bureau can check that you are receiving all the appropriate welfare payments and tax credits.  There will be local charities or disability/disease specific charities which can provide advice and assistance.  Residential care need not be a bad thing.

I've been a care taker too, although not at such a young age or for a long period.  Don't be guilted into letting your life be held hostage: there are ways out and aged 20 you need to be looking for them, rather than putting your life on hold for someone else, for whom there are always other options. Remember to put on your own lifejacket.

From previous posts, I think he works as a janitor for minimum wage and wants to retire on a few thousand a year.

^

people always laugh me off, but im dead serious about it.

I'm contextualising the caretaker comment. I think you mean that you work as a caretaker/janitor, rather than that you are a carer for someone disabled.

cerat0n1a

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1414
  • Location: England
Re: Living on a river/sea? (UK)
« Reply #24 on: October 08, 2016, 10:24:29 AM »

people always laugh me off, but im dead serious about it.

No-one's having a laugh at you on here - just that the word caretaker doesn't mean the same thing everywhere. Absolutely no reason why you can't find a creative way to do what you want.

Weren't you talking at one point about wanting to live off the land/grow your own food etc, possibly in a lower cost place outside the UK? As doubleh has pointed out, it's a lot cheaper to live on board a boat if you do it in a cheaper location in the med or west indies.

mohawkbrah

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 272
  • Age: 23
  • Location: Herefordshire, UK
  • every day they see me hustling those pennies away
Re: Living on a river/sea? (UK)
« Reply #25 on: October 09, 2016, 03:15:27 AM »

people always laugh me off, but im dead serious about it.

No-one's having a laugh at you on here - just that the word caretaker doesn't mean the same thing everywhere. Absolutely no reason why you can't find a creative way to do what you want.

Weren't you talking at one point about wanting to live off the land/grow your own food etc, possibly in a lower cost place outside the UK? As doubleh has pointed out, it's a lot cheaper to live on board a boat if you do it in a cheaper location in the med or west indies.

yes the thought of going abroad was my initial plan but since BREXIT, easily retiring to Europe is an unlikely possibility unless i married my way in, worked my way in (hell no) or was incredibly rich to buy my way in (not really on the table because of my plans)



But yes if i was to live on a boat i would likely go to the med. Although language barrier would be a problem.