Author Topic: Live on a boat vs Rent vs Home out of my price range vs Move  (Read 2576 times)

fpjeepy

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Currently I feel like my options are to
  • Buy a house. Cheapest homes within biking distance to work are $300K+ I make roughly $50k /year so this would require getting at least one roommate and getting 30+ year loan
  • Rent. It's over priced in my area. Nothing less than $1400/month single $2100/month with a roommate.
  • Buy a boat. I work in the industry so I'm very comfortable with this, and I think would be my preferred living situation. Boat price would vary $15-80k. Slip is ~$600/ month with utilities.
  • Move to a place that has a more reasonable cost of living and get a new job.

Which is the most mustachian choice?

jlcnuke

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Re: Live on a boat vs Rent vs Home out of my price range vs Move
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2018, 11:54:05 AM »
Regarding options 1-3:
How much do you have set aside for down-payment if you decide to buy (home or boat)?
How long are you planning to live there?

Regarding option 4:
You have the order wrong, get the new job first and then move. How big of a paycut would you see going to a LCOL area? What impact would it have on your career (ability to progress upwards?, more than one employer in the area if the first job doesn't work out?, etc?).

mrmoonymartian

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Re: Live on a boat vs Rent vs Home out of my price range vs Move
« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2018, 03:05:19 AM »
Can you move somewhere where housing is cheaper and/or income is greater? I agree that home ownership doesn't sound like a good option in that location for you at this stage.

By my crude calculations, a $15k boat could be better than renting if you're at it for about 4 years or more. That's the very cheapest boat in your range. An $80k boat doesn't even bear thinking about in this context.

Since you are thinking about it, it sounds like you could be walking into a seductive boat trap (hedonic treadmill) if you get even the cheapest one now. Better to put boat ownership out of mind until the time-value of your money is much lower. You can only get the benefits of compunding if you let it compound.

I'm dreaming of a liveaboard boat for myself one day, but not until I FIRE in about 10-15 years so I can sail the world at the same time. Now that is a reason to keep dragging myself to work on Monday mornings!

RyanAtTanagra

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Re: Live on a boat vs Rent vs Home out of my price range vs Move
« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2018, 04:08:42 PM »
I'm living on a boat.  With the option of getting an apartment with a roommate and paying $1100/mo, the math doesn't work out in the boat's favor.  Even at $1400/mo to live on your own you're looking at a long time to breakeven, with more work as you go.  The finances work in my case because I was paying twice that for rent, but the same amount as you for the boat.

fpjeepy

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Re: Live on a boat vs Rent vs Home out of my price range vs Move
« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2018, 09:17:48 PM »
Rent a room somewhere as cheaply as possible and save as much as you can. You don't earn enough to buy a house in your area even with roommates once you add in all the extra costs involved in ownership. And living on a boat (I''ve done it) can cost quite a bit for slip fees and maintenance beyond just the cost of the boat. And having money that could be invested and earning locked into A depreciating asset like A boat is usually A bad idea. A small studio or one bedroom,  or a roommate situation, would be best imho and allow you the greatest flexibility and savings.

 As for moving that depends. Can you earn the same or more somewhere with lower housing costs? Somewhere that you would actually like? If not then it may not be worth moving just to save on housing costs.
I am in agreement. My boss keeps telling me to buy real estate, but I don't think it is a really great investment in my situation.

The only reason I am considering the boat is I think it would add to the quality of my life. I grew up on the water. My father is a charter fishing captain. I love to fish and I paddleboard for 1-2 hrs 3-5 days a week year round. To me living in a condo, watching football games on a big screen and manicuring my lawn is my worst nightmare. Thinking about it gives me anxiety. I know some people love it, but not for me. I'd rather be sleeping on an air mattress eating ramen noodle and white perch I caught off my bow. But the reason I'm here asking people for advice is because the only thing that gives me equal anxiety is making a bad financial decision. It's more of a pride thing than anything else, but I'm really scared of 10 years from now listening to people tell me "Wow, that was a terrible financial decision you made. I thought you were a little smarter with money."

The place I am considering moving is Wilmington, NC. I know I would like it better than where I am currently. Only reason I haven't moved yet is I haven't found a job yet. Also my current job gives me a lot of good connections for getting some boat work done really cheap.
Regarding options 1-3:
How much do you have set aside for down-payment if you decide to buy (home or boat)?
How long are you planning to live there?

Regarding option 4:
You have the order wrong, get the new job first and then move. How big of a paycut would you see going to a LCOL area? What impact would it have on your career (ability to progress upwards?, more than one employer in the area if the first job doesn't work out?, etc?).
If I liquidated all of my investments (except IRA), and borrowed from friends and family. I could probably come up with ~$50k. Honestly I don't know how long I'll be here. All I have a feeling for is I don't want to be here forever. Or specifically I don't want to raise my kids in this town. Too wealthy.

Ideally I would like to work for myself someday. But being an INTP I'm great at identifying and solving problems and terrible and following through with anything, so partnership is really my only option. What that looks like, I don't know. I have lots of interests and I don't really care which industry its in or what service/product I provide. I live frugally not so I can retire early, but rather to have the time and money to pursue business ventures.

Can you move somewhere where housing is cheaper and/or income is greater? I agree that home ownership doesn't sound like a good option in that location for you at this stage.

By my crude calculations, a $15k boat could be better than renting if you're at it for about 4 years or more. That's the very cheapest boat in your range. An $80k boat doesn't even bear thinking about in this context.

Since you are thinking about it, it sounds like you could be walking into a seductive boat trap (hedonic treadmill) if you get even the cheapest one now. Better to put boat ownership out of mind until the time-value of your money is much lower. You can only get the benefits of compunding if you let it compound.

I'm dreaming of a liveaboard boat for myself one day, but not until I FIRE in about 10-15 years so I can sail the world at the same time. Now that is a reason to keep dragging myself to work on Monday mornings!

These are wise words. My struggle is I work in the industry. I design CAD Monkey multimillion dollar yachts for a living. Me going out and buying a cheap production boat would kill my pride a little. It would be like a guy that restores classic vehicles for a living driving around in a Dodge Stratus. (No offense. I was a Stratus driver for a couple years.)

GreenEggs

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Re: Live on a boat vs Rent vs Home out of my price range vs Move
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2018, 09:48:55 PM »
This isn't exactly answering your question, but.


We're heading to Spain for a vacation and I've been looking at things to do while we're there.  Boat rides caught my eye, but they're kind of pricey.


I was thinking if you had a nice enough & large enough boat you could take tourist out on the weekends for cocktail rides and/or sunset cruises. That might bring in enough to pay for the boat & slip rental and make some extra money. 




PDM

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Re: Live on a boat vs Rent vs Home out of my price range vs Move
« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2018, 10:56:39 PM »
This isn't exactly answering your question, but.


We're heading to Spain for a vacation and I've been looking at things to do while we're there.  Boat rides caught my eye, but they're kind of pricey.


I was thinking if you had a nice enough & large enough boat you could take tourist out on the weekends for cocktail rides and/or sunset cruises. That might bring in enough to pay for the boat & slip rental and make some extra money.

I think flaw with this plan is, that every boat I've seen people living on is not suitable for tourist cruising. I'm picturing a small cramped space, with a hairy guy cooking beans over a gas burner, surrounded by all his worldy possessions.

GreenEggs

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Re: Live on a boat vs Rent vs Home out of my price range vs Move
« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2018, 05:55:41 AM »
This isn't exactly answering your question, but.


We're heading to Spain for a vacation and I've been looking at things to do while we're there.  Boat rides caught my eye, but they're kind of pricey.


I was thinking if you had a nice enough & large enough boat you could take tourist out on the weekends for cocktail rides and/or sunset cruises. That might bring in enough to pay for the boat & slip rental and make some extra money.

I think flaw with this plan is, that every boat I've seen people living on is not suitable for tourist cruising. I'm picturing a small cramped space, with a hairy guy cooking beans over a gas burner, surrounded by all his worldy possessions.




I'd envisioned it as a way, and a reason, to buy a larger boat.  The short 2-3 hour crusies are meant to keep the guest up on deck, but of course he'd have to keep the galley and one head (bathroom) presentable.  An attractive hostess would be an asset too.

mrmoonymartian

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Re: Live on a boat vs Rent vs Home out of my price range vs Move
« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2018, 07:18:20 AM »
This isn't exactly answering your question, but.


We're heading to Spain for a vacation and I've been looking at things to do while we're there.  Boat rides caught my eye, but they're kind of pricey.


I was thinking if you had a nice enough & large enough boat you could take tourist out on the weekends for cocktail rides and/or sunset cruises. That might bring in enough to pay for the boat & slip rental and make some extra money.
I think flaw with this plan is, that every boat I've seen people living on is not suitable for tourist cruising. I'm picturing a small cramped space, with a hairy guy cooking beans over a gas burner, surrounded by all his worldy possessions.
I'd envisioned it as a way, and a reason, to buy a larger boat.  The short 2-3 hour crusies are meant to keep the guest up on deck, but of course he'd have to keep the galley and one head (bathroom) presentable.  An attractive hostess would be an asset too.
Well if you're going to fantasize about it, why not include some nice assets? And a hostess too.

GreenEggs

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Re: Live on a boat vs Rent vs Home out of my price range vs Move
« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2018, 08:00:36 AM »
This isn't exactly answering your question, but.


We're heading to Spain for a vacation and I've been looking at things to do while we're there.  Boat rides caught my eye, but they're kind of pricey.


I was thinking if you had a nice enough & large enough boat you could take tourist out on the weekends for cocktail rides and/or sunset cruises. That might bring in enough to pay for the boat & slip rental and make some extra money.
I think flaw with this plan is, that every boat I've seen people living on is not suitable for tourist cruising. I'm picturing a small cramped space, with a hairy guy cooking beans over a gas burner, surrounded by all his worldy possessions.
I'd envisioned it as a way, and a reason, to buy a larger boat.  The short 2-3 hour crusies are meant to keep the guest up on deck, but of course he'd have to keep the galley and one head (bathroom) presentable.  An attractive hostess would be an asset too.
Well if you're going to fantasize about it, why not include some nice assets? And a hostess too.


To be mustachian the hostess would need to be a wife or girlfriend that doesn't mind earning her keep.  You steer the boat & she pours the wine.  As long as you keep up with the birthcontrol everything should run smoothly. 
This idea depends on living in a place with a nice climate most of the year.  The PNW would be too rainy.

Sibley

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Re: Live on a boat vs Rent vs Home out of my price range vs Move
« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2018, 08:30:36 AM »
These are wise words. My struggle is I work in the industry. I design CAD Monkey multimillion dollar yachts for a living. Me going out and buying a cheap production boat would kill my pride a little. It would be like a guy that restores classic vehicles for a living driving around in a Dodge Stratus. (No offense. I was a Stratus driver for a couple years.)

Um, what? Who gives a shit? If that's what makes financial sense to achieve your goals, then that's the best option. You can choose between your pride and living on the water.

And I know a guy who restores classic vehicles. His daily driver is a Corolla, and he seems quite happy to have a vehicle that doesn't break or cost a fortune to maintain.

fpjeepy

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Re: Live on a boat vs Rent vs Home out of my price range vs Move
« Reply #11 on: July 18, 2018, 12:16:07 PM »
This isn't exactly answering your question, but.


We're heading to Spain for a vacation and I've been looking at things to do while we're there.  Boat rides caught my eye, but they're kind of pricey.


I was thinking if you had a nice enough & large enough boat you could take tourist out on the weekends for cocktail rides and/or sunset cruises. That might bring in enough to pay for the boat & slip rental and make some extra money.

I think flaw with this plan is, that every boat I've seen people living on is not suitable for tourist cruising. I'm picturing a small cramped space, with a hairy guy cooking beans over a gas burner, surrounded by all his worldy possessions.




I'd envisioned it as a way, and a reason, to buy a larger boat.  The short 2-3 hour crusies are meant to keep the guest up on deck, but of course he'd have to keep the galley and one head (bathroom) presentable.  An attractive hostess would be an asset too.

I like the sound of this.

These are wise words. My struggle is I work in the industry. I design CAD Monkey multimillion dollar yachts for a living. Me going out and buying a cheap production boat would kill my pride a little. It would be like a guy that restores classic vehicles for a living driving around in a Dodge Stratus. (No offense. I was a Stratus driver for a couple years.)

Um, what? Who gives a shit? If that's what makes financial sense to achieve your goals, then that's the best option. You can choose between your pride and living on the water.

And I know a guy who restores classic vehicles. His daily driver is a Corolla, and he seems quite happy to have a vehicle that doesn't break or cost a fortune to maintain.

I agree, but I wish it was that easy. Is wanting something you can be proud of that bad? I mean I think hearing "That's a beautiful boat. You did a great job restoring it." would make me happy. Is that bad? I know buying things will never make you happy, but even Mr. Mm himself has said everyone should build themselves a house or shed or something with their own hands. I know pride can be a bad thing, but can't it also be a good thing? I know I'm not immune to consumerism, that is why I spend time on this forum.

Cranky

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Re: Live on a boat vs Rent vs Home out of my price range vs Move
« Reply #12 on: July 19, 2018, 09:19:01 AM »
Is there some reason you can't live in a condo and still go fishing in your spare time? I don't think that watching football is a requirement.

fpjeepy

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Re: Live on a boat vs Rent vs Home out of my price range vs Move
« Reply #13 on: July 20, 2018, 10:34:59 AM »
You can, but you might not bw able to park your boat in the garage, fillet your fish on the porch and leave the rods leaned up against the house to try.
I've heard a lot of condo owners complaining about other people's stuff not abiding by the condominium rules. I'm not a big fan of being told what i can and can't do.  Not to say that the marina can't do the same thing.

Reddleman

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Re: Live on a boat vs Rent vs Home out of my price range vs Move
« Reply #14 on: July 22, 2018, 04:50:42 PM »
Let me be the one man out here.

Since you are working in the boat industry, love boats, and have connections. . .  live on a boat!

While most people see the expense of a boat purchase as amortization and expensive, it's really not.  Most 30-40ft boats (particularly sail) are mostly depreciated by now if over 10-15yrs. old.  Sure you'll have maintenance and slip fees/utilities, but on shore you would have rent/utilities, mortgage/utilities/hoa etc.  With these connections you could also buy/sell something nice a lot easier than other people.  Win/win.

When you move or decide to sell, you can either move or sell your "house".  Besides, you probably already have connections for reasonable slip fees, friends/others who can cut you a deal on maintenance, haul outs, etc. 

Being an INTP, I hear you on starting your own business. .  . 

fpjeepy

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Re: Live on a boat vs Rent vs Home out of my price range vs Move
« Reply #15 on: August 01, 2018, 08:58:57 AM »
Let me be the one man out here.

Since you are working in the boat industry, love boats, and have connections. . .  live on a boat!

While most people see the expense of a boat purchase as amortization and expensive, it's really not.  Most 30-40ft boats (particularly sail) are mostly depreciated by now if over 10-15yrs. old.  Sure you'll have maintenance and slip fees/utilities, but on shore you would have rent/utilities, mortgage/utilities/hoa etc.  With these connections you could also buy/sell something nice a lot easier than other people.  Win/win.

When you move or decide to sell, you can either move or sell your "house".  Besides, you probably already have connections for reasonable slip fees, friends/others who can cut you a deal on maintenance, haul outs, etc. 

Being an INTP, I hear you on starting your own business. .  . 

I took your's and other's advice. I bought a 32ft sportfishing boat. It wasn't the custom boat I had been dreaming about for the last 3 years, but its not ugly either. I bought it in a private sale and I think I paid $20K less than it is worth. It was cheap enough I was able to pay cash, and my slip fees will be about $500/ month. Now I have to sell just about everything I own so I can move onto the boat.

Thanks to everyone that helped my decision making process.

GreenEggs

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Re: Live on a boat vs Rent vs Home out of my price range vs Move
« Reply #16 on: August 01, 2018, 03:23:29 PM »
Congrats!  How about sharing some pics of it? 


:)

mrmoonymartian

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Re: Live on a boat vs Rent vs Home out of my price range vs Move
« Reply #17 on: August 03, 2018, 01:49:13 AM »
Sounds like a rational choice considering you love to fish and the price was right. Nice work!

Would be great if you can give us another update or two as you move in and get used to living aboard. Especially on the unexpected costs, hassles and joys. Purely for academic interest, of course ;)
« Last Edit: August 03, 2018, 01:56:58 AM by mrmoonymartian »

fpjeepy

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Re: Live on a boat vs Rent vs Home out of my price range vs Move
« Reply #18 on: August 03, 2018, 06:50:47 AM »
Congrats!  How about sharing some pics of it? 


:)

fpjeepy

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Re: Live on a boat vs Rent vs Home out of my price range vs Move
« Reply #19 on: August 03, 2018, 07:09:16 AM »
Sounds like a rational choice considering you love to fish and the price was right. Nice work!

Would be great if you can give us another update or two as you move in and get used to living aboard. Especially on the unexpected costs, hassles and joys. Purely for academic interest, of course ;)

Will do.

GreenEggs

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Re: Live on a boat vs Rent vs Home out of my price range vs Move
« Reply #20 on: August 03, 2018, 02:10:46 PM »
Great choice.  (Where's the thumbs up button?) 

PDM

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Re: Live on a boat vs Rent vs Home out of my price range vs Move
« Reply #21 on: August 03, 2018, 07:03:10 PM »
Is there a potential side business in fishing tours?

FallenTimber

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Re: Live on a boat vs Rent vs Home out of my price range vs Move
« Reply #22 on: August 14, 2018, 12:06:31 PM »
Just posting to say this is awesome. I think you made the right choice for this time of your life.

Any update on how you’re liking it?

fpjeepy

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Re: Live on a boat vs Rent vs Home out of my price range vs Move
« Reply #23 on: August 29, 2018, 12:52:41 PM »
Just posting to say this is awesome. I think you made the right choice for this time of your life.

Any update on how you’re liking it?

Thanks for the support! I just transported it from Long Island to Maryland. It was quite the voyage
 
Needs some work, but I got about a week before I have to more onto it.