Author Topic: Life design  (Read 2686 times)

Goanywhere

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Life design
« on: August 19, 2021, 05:20:38 AM »
Hi everyone

My wife and I, together with our two young children, are approaching FI in the next 2-3 years. I’ll be nearly 40 and my wife 36/37.   

As we are getting closer it has become very apparent to us that we actually have no plan once we stop working and are no longer tied  to where we live for work. 

So I’m wondering whether anyone has come across a framework that would help us design out the life we want to live?  I’m not sure this even exist but thought I’d ask

Cheers
gA


Raenia

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Re: Life design
« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2021, 07:22:33 AM »
I recommend reading "Designing Your Life," by Bill Burnett and Dave Evans.  "First Things First" by Stephen Covey is also very good.  Both books include exercises intended to help you figure out what's important to you, and what your priorities are.  Then you can build a life plan around those priorities.

Metalcat

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Re: Life design
« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2021, 08:20:29 AM »
You don't have to plan this in advance.

Once you don't have work occupying your time, you will have plenty of time and mental space to figure out what you want your life to look like.

You can't actually make those decisions now. You will become a very different person once you no longer have a job, and that person will decide what's most important, and won't give a shit what you today think your life should look like.

Let the discovery be part of the fun. This isn't a chore, it's part of the joy of being retired.

I've been retired over a year and I'm just starting to really understand what I need from my retired life.

I too ran around like a little stressed out squirrel trying to gather concepts of what I "should do" in my retirement. I can't help but laugh at that little frenetic creature I used to be.

I do shit now because I want to. I enjoy the process of figuring out what I want in my life. I literally laugh at my past self for thinking that she had ANY say as to what retired me would decide to do with my time.

Cute concept, but stupid. Really stupid.

Spend these last working days getting ready to retire not just your career, but who you are as a working person. Savour every last bit of the parts that you enjoy and then let them go.

Then decompress for a few months, and let the retired you grow and develop at their own pace. You will have to fully relearn how to exist in this world with an entirely different set of pressures and priorities.

Basically, you don't need to plan it, and you actually can't even if you try. A wiser version of yourself will just take over in the future and do whatever the hell they want to anyway, so let it go.

Roots&Wings

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Re: Life design
« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2021, 08:26:35 AM »

Raenia

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Re: Life design
« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2021, 08:39:38 AM »
I'll just add, I agree with everything Malcat said, however I don't think that's incompatible with doing some thinking and planning now.  Having some ideas of what you're retiring to can help you take the plunge.  Just be prepared to deviate or even throw the plan out the window when actually living it provides you with new information.

MrThatsDifferent

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Re: Life design
« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2021, 08:49:44 AM »
Take a big sheet of paper, involve the whole family, put a line down the middle, write on one side “More of this”, and on the other side write “Less of this”. Fill both sides with everything that you all can think of, no matter how far fetched. Then come to a consensus of the top 5 for each side. You can also do this individually. Then imagine what life would be like if you actioned your priorities and if it aligns with your sense of happiness and well-being, put effort into turning ideas into reality. Rinse and repeat as life chugs along.

joe189man

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Re: Life design
« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2021, 09:33:10 AM »
i was going to recommend "Designing Your Life," by Bill Burnett and Dave Evans. i have started it but stalled because work got crazy.

Great advice @Malcat you could easily start a life coach business

Metalcat

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Re: Life design
« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2021, 09:43:53 AM »
i was going to recommend "Designing Your Life," by Bill Burnett and Dave Evans. i have started it but stalled because work got crazy.

Great advice @Malcat you could easily start a life coach business

Lol, you read the part about me being retired, right?

I'll happily give advice, but I'm very selective about who I will let pay me for it. Clients are a pain in the ass I do not need in my life right now.

joe189man

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Re: Life design
« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2021, 09:51:49 AM »
Are you taking clients???... j/k (sort of)

in all honesty, i think a person that could come in and review a family's processes/systems (or lack there of) / and unorganized chaos from a external perspective especially a FIRE perspective could offer great in sight.

I know we feel like we are drowning all the time, i have said it before in other posts, i would gladly welcome and pay for any guidance or recommendations to make things "run" more smoothly. its too easy to get caught up in mess and not take a step back and holistically think about why we do the things we do and if there may be a better way

Sorry, didnt mean to high jack your post

Metalcat

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Re: Life design
« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2021, 10:17:32 AM »
Are you taking clients???... j/k (sort of)

in all honesty, i think a person that could come in and review a family's processes/systems (or lack there of) / and unorganized chaos from a external perspective especially a FIRE perspective could offer great in sight.

I know we feel like we are drowning all the time, i have said it before in other posts, i would gladly welcome and pay for any guidance or recommendations to make things "run" more smoothly. its too easy to get caught up in mess and not take a step back and holistically think about why we do the things we do and if there may be a better way

Sorry, didnt mean to high jack your post

Lol, send me a pm and I'll help you out.

Roots&Wings

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Re: Life design
« Reply #10 on: August 20, 2021, 05:42:18 AM »
I'll just add, I agree with everything Malcat said, however I don't think that's incompatible with doing some thinking and planning now.  Having some ideas of what you're retiring to can help you take the plunge.  Just be prepared to deviate or even throw the plan out the window when actually living it provides you with new information.

+1
There's a TED talk by the author of Designing Your Life that might be helpful, it highlights some of the main processes in the book: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SemHh0n19LA

reeshau

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Re: Life design
« Reply #11 on: August 20, 2021, 06:58:52 AM »
I agree with @Malcat so far as expectations for results.  But I go with Dwight Eisenhower on preparation:

"Plans are worthless, but planning is everything."

There is a lot to be said about retiring *to* something, not just retiring *from* something.  Maybe that is clear to you, maybe It's not.  Maybe you don't have time to get enough sleep each night, much less ponder your future.  But I think getting practice thinking about that future is useful, even if it is just a motivation to reach the finish line.  So, if you do have time, think and talk about your future.  Together, even better.  Those conversations will be good practice for when you are really doing it, and find some part that you didn't expect, or that was harder than you though.

Just be prepared to throw away the first few drafts.

Metalcat

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Re: Life design
« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2021, 07:17:57 AM »
I agree with @Malcat so far as expectations for results.  But I go with Dwight Eisenhower on preparation:

"Plans are worthless, but planning is everything."

There is a lot to be said about retiring *to* something, not just retiring *from* something.  Maybe that is clear to you, maybe It's not.  Maybe you don't have time to get enough sleep each night, much less ponder your future.  But I think getting practice thinking about that future is useful, even if it is just a motivation to reach the finish line.  So, if you do have time, think and talk about your future.  Together, even better.  Those conversations will be good practice for when you are really doing it, and find some part that you didn't expect, or that was harder than you though.

Just be prepared to throw away the first few drafts.

It depends on the person.

For a lot of driven, highly autonomous people who have absolutely no risk of becoming aimless and lazy in retirement, retiring "to" something is not only unnecessary, but can really hamper decompression and the process of learning what you need from your retired life.

Some people really need to learn to let go of trying to plan their lives.

reeshau

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Re: Life design
« Reply #13 on: August 20, 2021, 07:37:38 AM »
I agree with @Malcat so far as expectations for results.  But I go with Dwight Eisenhower on preparation:

"Plans are worthless, but planning is everything."

There is a lot to be said about retiring *to* something, not just retiring *from* something.  Maybe that is clear to you, maybe It's not.  Maybe you don't have time to get enough sleep each night, much less ponder your future.  But I think getting practice thinking about that future is useful, even if it is just a motivation to reach the finish line.  So, if you do have time, think and talk about your future.  Together, even better.  Those conversations will be good practice for when you are really doing it, and find some part that you didn't expect, or that was harder than you though.

Just be prepared to throw away the first few drafts.

It depends on the person.

For a lot of driven, highly autonomous people who have absolutely no risk of becoming aimless and lazy in retirement, retiring "to" something is not only unnecessary, but can really hamper decompression and the process of learning what you need from your retired life.

Some people really need to learn to let go of trying to plan their lives.

I agree that it depends.  But given the degree of focus on work in the US, there is a potential for people to retire without much of a social network or interests outside of work--something that has been a cause of depression in retirement, even at traditional retirement age.  Developing those, or at least identifying something to try, is a useful level of preparation.  Without having something to do, boredom could set in, and the worst of all outcomes could happen-- a return to work!

Metalcat

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Re: Life design
« Reply #14 on: August 20, 2021, 07:54:02 AM »
I agree with @Malcat so far as expectations for results.  But I go with Dwight Eisenhower on preparation:

"Plans are worthless, but planning is everything."

There is a lot to be said about retiring *to* something, not just retiring *from* something.  Maybe that is clear to you, maybe It's not.  Maybe you don't have time to get enough sleep each night, much less ponder your future.  But I think getting practice thinking about that future is useful, even if it is just a motivation to reach the finish line.  So, if you do have time, think and talk about your future.  Together, even better.  Those conversations will be good practice for when you are really doing it, and find some part that you didn't expect, or that was harder than you though.

Just be prepared to throw away the first few drafts.

It depends on the person.

For a lot of driven, highly autonomous people who have absolutely no risk of becoming aimless and lazy in retirement, retiring "to" something is not only unnecessary, but can really hamper decompression and the process of learning what you need from your retired life.

Some people really need to learn to let go of trying to plan their lives.

I agree that it depends.  But given the degree of focus on work in the US, there is a potential for people to retire without much of a social network or interests outside of work--something that has been a cause of depression in retirement, even at traditional retirement age.  Developing those, or at least identifying something to try, is a useful level of preparation.  Without having something to do, boredom could set in, and the worst of all outcomes could happen-- a return to work!

I firmly disagree.

For some yes, but I maintain, firmly, that for others it isn't a good idea.

I can say that firmly because of my lived experience where everything I retired "to" just got in the way and delayed a very necessary process.

I can't tell you how many people I've seen stressing about what to retire "to".

Again, driven, highly autonomous people will fill their lives with whatever they need. The challenge is learning what it is that they actually need, and those needs are radically different once they stop working.

I stand by what I'm saying. For *some* people, they are much, much better off not retiring "to" anything, and just getting through decompression first, because some people, like me, really fight it.

I actually had to have something really bad happen to finally just suck it up and decompress instead of filling my like with structure I didn't actually need.

dougules

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Re: Life design
« Reply #15 on: August 20, 2021, 08:53:45 AM »
I agree with @Malcat so far as expectations for results.  But I go with Dwight Eisenhower on preparation:

"Plans are worthless, but planning is everything."

There is a lot to be said about retiring *to* something, not just retiring *from* something.  Maybe that is clear to you, maybe It's not.  Maybe you don't have time to get enough sleep each night, much less ponder your future.  But I think getting practice thinking about that future is useful, even if it is just a motivation to reach the finish line.  So, if you do have time, think and talk about your future.  Together, even better.  Those conversations will be good practice for when you are really doing it, and find some part that you didn't expect, or that was harder than you though.

Just be prepared to throw away the first few drafts.

It depends on the person.

For a lot of driven, highly autonomous people who have absolutely no risk of becoming aimless and lazy in retirement, retiring "to" something is not only unnecessary, but can really hamper decompression and the process of learning what you need from your retired life.

Some people really need to learn to let go of trying to plan their lives.

I agree that it depends.  But given the degree of focus on work in the US, there is a potential for people to retire without much of a social network or interests outside of work--something that has been a cause of depression in retirement, even at traditional retirement age.  Developing those, or at least identifying something to try, is a useful level of preparation.  Without having something to do, boredom could set in, and the worst of all outcomes could happen-- a return to work!

I firmly disagree.

For some yes, but I maintain, firmly, that for others it isn't a good idea.

I can say that firmly because of my lived experience where everything I retired "to" just got in the way and delayed a very necessary process.

I can't tell you how many people I've seen stressing about what to retire "to".

Again, driven, highly autonomous people will fill their lives with whatever they need. The challenge is learning what it is that they actually need, and those needs are radically different once they stop working.

I stand by what I'm saying. For *some* people, they are much, much better off not retiring "to" anything, and just getting through decompression first, because some people, like me, really fight it.

I actually had to have something really bad happen to finally just suck it up and decompress instead of filling my like with structure I didn't actually need.


I hate to hear that it took a bad experience to get you there. 

How do you keep the lack of structure from leading to isolation?  I've noticed that I don't do well mentally when I don't have a certain amount of social interaction, and I'm sure there are plenty of other people who are the same.  I'm looking forward to having the space to take life day by day during decompression, but based on previously having had problems with it, I'm a little concerned it might lead to a downward spiral of not getting out making me feeling isolated leading to bad mental health leading to not having the drive to get out etc etc.  I think being married will mitigate that a decent amount, but still. 

reeshau

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Re: Life design
« Reply #16 on: August 20, 2021, 08:54:38 AM »
For some yes, but I maintain, firmly, that for others it isn't a good idea.

On this we agree.

Maybe some of our disagreement is on semantics.  Are you advocating that (some) people should actively avoid *thinking about* their retirement lives?  At all?  I am not advocating filling out a day planner, but leaving it fully blank seems like an overcorrection for too-detailed planning, with too-big expectations.  But planning can take many forms: reading a book, talking to others who have experience (in person or on an internet forum!)  Even just daydreaming about it starts to fill in the blanks.  Maybe I would do better by saying preparing, rather than planning.

Retirement is a major life change, like marriage, having a child, or mourning a death.  Most of them are exciting, but all can be uncomfortable to think about.  And as major changes, all have perils that lead to failure to adjust to the new circumstances.  But informing oneself about them, to the point of pondering your own particular situation, is prudent, and I think should lead to a higher chance of success. Assuming you know what will happen because you have studied or read about it, though, is hubris.  It is important to be humble and honest with yourself about your expectations and your new reality.


Metalcat

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Re: Life design
« Reply #17 on: August 20, 2021, 09:07:25 AM »
I agree with @Malcat so far as expectations for results.  But I go with Dwight Eisenhower on preparation:

"Plans are worthless, but planning is everything."

There is a lot to be said about retiring *to* something, not just retiring *from* something.  Maybe that is clear to you, maybe It's not.  Maybe you don't have time to get enough sleep each night, much less ponder your future.  But I think getting practice thinking about that future is useful, even if it is just a motivation to reach the finish line.  So, if you do have time, think and talk about your future.  Together, even better.  Those conversations will be good practice for when you are really doing it, and find some part that you didn't expect, or that was harder than you though.

Just be prepared to throw away the first few drafts.

It depends on the person.

For a lot of driven, highly autonomous people who have absolutely no risk of becoming aimless and lazy in retirement, retiring "to" something is not only unnecessary, but can really hamper decompression and the process of learning what you need from your retired life.

Some people really need to learn to let go of trying to plan their lives.

I agree that it depends.  But given the degree of focus on work in the US, there is a potential for people to retire without much of a social network or interests outside of work--something that has been a cause of depression in retirement, even at traditional retirement age.  Developing those, or at least identifying something to try, is a useful level of preparation.  Without having something to do, boredom could set in, and the worst of all outcomes could happen-- a return to work!

I firmly disagree.

For some yes, but I maintain, firmly, that for others it isn't a good idea.

I can say that firmly because of my lived experience where everything I retired "to" just got in the way and delayed a very necessary process.

I can't tell you how many people I've seen stressing about what to retire "to".

Again, driven, highly autonomous people will fill their lives with whatever they need. The challenge is learning what it is that they actually need, and those needs are radically different once they stop working.

I stand by what I'm saying. For *some* people, they are much, much better off not retiring "to" anything, and just getting through decompression first, because some people, like me, really fight it.

I actually had to have something really bad happen to finally just suck it up and decompress instead of filling my like with structure I didn't actually need.


I hate to hear that it took a bad experience to get you there. 

How do you keep the lack of structure from leading to isolation?  I've noticed that I don't do well mentally when I don't have a certain amount of social interaction, and I'm sure there are plenty of other people who are the same.  I'm looking forward to having the space to take life day by day during decompression, but based on previously having had problems with it, I'm a little concerned it might lead to a downward spiral of not getting out making me feeling isolated leading to bad mental health leading to not having the drive to get out etc etc.  I think being married will mitigate that a decent amount, but still.

You don't need to plan *in advance* how you will fill your days, you can just fill them.

The way I fill my time now is fundamentally very different than how I did when I was working. In fact, I'm far more engaged socially and enjoy my leisure activities more.

This is my *exact* point. People who think that work mode is the only way to stay active in their lives are missing an entirely different way of engaging with their time and energy.


Metalcat

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Re: Life design
« Reply #18 on: August 20, 2021, 09:13:31 AM »
For some yes, but I maintain, firmly, that for others it isn't a good idea.

On this we agree.

Maybe some of our disagreement is on semantics.  Are you advocating that (some) people should actively avoid *thinking about* their retirement lives?  At all?  I am not advocating filling out a day planner, but leaving it fully blank seems like an overcorrection for too-detailed planning, with too-big expectations.  But planning can take many forms: reading a book, talking to others who have experience (in person or on an internet forum!)  Even just daydreaming about it starts to fill in the blanks.  Maybe I would do better by saying preparing, rather than planning.

Retirement is a major life change, like marriage, having a child, or mourning a death.  Most of them are exciting, but all can be uncomfortable to think about.  And as major changes, all have perils that lead to failure to adjust to the new circumstances.  But informing oneself about them, to the point of pondering your own particular situation, is prudent, and I think should lead to a higher chance of success. Assuming you know what will happen because you have studied or read about it, though, is hubris.  It is important to be humble and honest with yourself about your expectations and your new reality.

I fully disagree with you.

If reading and talking about retirement gets you all jazzed for it, then have at it, but for some people it's entirely unnecessary. I'm not saying all thinking about it should be staunchly avoided, I'm saying it isn't necessary.

And since so many people do stress about what the hell they are going to retire "to", then yes, they would benefit from thinking less about it because it's causing them stress.

At a certain point, you have to learn to trust yourself.

I trust myself that no matter what structure there is or isn't in my life, that I will thrive and make the most of it. So that means I don't have to try and pre-manage myself.

So yes, if you can muse, and contemplate your future in a calm, peaceful way where it's just a matter of enjoyably daydreaming about what your future may look like because you're excited about it, then great.

However, if you are looking towards freedom with fear, or in an effort to control it, then there's something very wrong there. Why don't you just trust yourself to live well?

dougules

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Re: Life design
« Reply #19 on: August 20, 2021, 09:54:29 AM »
However, if you are looking towards freedom with fear, or in an effort to control it, then there's something very wrong there. Why don't you just trust yourself to live well?

At least on the social isolation thing for me, I'm wondering if it wouldn't be easier to plan to avoid the hole of isolation and depression I've fallen into in the past than have to dig myself back out of it.  I honestly don't trust myself in that state. 

ETA: If it's not clear, I 95% agree with you. 
« Last Edit: August 20, 2021, 09:56:36 AM by dougules »

Metalcat

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Re: Life design
« Reply #20 on: August 20, 2021, 10:01:30 AM »
However, if you are looking towards freedom with fear, or in an effort to control it, then there's something very wrong there. Why don't you just trust yourself to live well?

At least on the social isolation thing for me, I'm wondering if it wouldn't be easier to plan to avoid the hole of isolation and depression I've fallen into in the past than have to dig myself back out of it.  I honestly don't trust myself in that state. 

ETA: If it's not clear, I 95% agree with you.

Remember, I said *some* people.

However, I would argue that if you don't trust yourself, then the priority would be to resolve the things you don't trust, not to just continue to micro manage yourself away from the aspects you don't trust.

Retirement is an ideal time to resolve mental health barriers.

Raenia

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Re: Life design
« Reply #21 on: August 20, 2021, 10:09:06 AM »
However, if you are looking towards freedom with fear, or in an effort to control it, then there's something very wrong there. Why don't you just trust yourself to live well?

At least on the social isolation thing for me, I'm wondering if it wouldn't be easier to plan to avoid the hole of isolation and depression I've fallen into in the past than have to dig myself back out of it.  I honestly don't trust myself in that state. 

ETA: If it's not clear, I 95% agree with you.

I'm with you on this, if the pandemic taught me anything it's that without things planned, I will very easily fall into complete social isolation and never leave my house except for groceries - and I'll be completely happy while doing it.  While that might lead to a nice decompression period, it will also lead to deterioration of relationships with family and friends, when I drop of the face of the earth and don't talk to them for six months or more (not an exaggeration, this did actually happen).

If instead I do a quick priority exercise and determine that maintaining these relationships is something worthwhile, then I know I want to plan a certain amount of interaction to do so.  On any given day, it will feel easier and better not to go out or call someone, but on the scale of weeks or months, planning it into my schedule leads to better outcomes.

I also don't think dislike of phone calls constitutes a mental health barrier that needs resolution.

trollwithamustache

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Re: Life design
« Reply #22 on: August 20, 2021, 10:14:04 AM »
all this planning sounds like a lot of work.

Can you just make a list of places and start visiting them? like longer visits, say 2 weeks not just weekends.

dougules

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Re: Life design
« Reply #23 on: August 20, 2021, 10:20:29 AM »
all this planning sounds like a lot of work.

Can you just make a list of places and start visiting them? like longer visits, say 2 weeks not just weekends.

Why do you even need a list?

Metalcat

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Re: Life design
« Reply #24 on: August 20, 2021, 10:23:15 AM »
However, if you are looking towards freedom with fear, or in an effort to control it, then there's something very wrong there. Why don't you just trust yourself to live well?

At least on the social isolation thing for me, I'm wondering if it wouldn't be easier to plan to avoid the hole of isolation and depression I've fallen into in the past than have to dig myself back out of it.  I honestly don't trust myself in that state. 

ETA: If it's not clear, I 95% agree with you.

I'm with you on this, if the pandemic taught me anything it's that without things planned, I will very easily fall into complete social isolation and never leave my house except for groceries - and I'll be completely happy while doing it.  While that might lead to a nice decompression period, it will also lead to deterioration of relationships with family and friends, when I drop of the face of the earth and don't talk to them for six months or more (not an exaggeration, this did actually happen).

If instead I do a quick priority exercise and determine that maintaining these relationships is something worthwhile, then I know I want to plan a certain amount of interaction to do so.  On any given day, it will feel easier and better not to go out or call someone, but on the scale of weeks or months, planning it into my schedule leads to better outcomes.

I also don't think dislike of phone calls constitutes a mental health barrier that needs resolution.

I never said it was.

Roots&Wings

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Re: Life design
« Reply #25 on: August 20, 2021, 10:29:48 AM »
Interesting discussion! I think there's a difference between learning about design processes like @Raenia initially suggested that can help you generate ideas at any stage of life, and the discrete "to do's" or what exactly am I going to retire to activities. 

But I'm biased towards these kinds of processes and frameworks because I find them useful. Agree that "just wing it" could cause a lot of stress in some people, like "what am I retiring to" could create stress in others. 

Metalcat

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Re: Life design
« Reply #26 on: August 20, 2021, 10:34:13 AM »
all this planning sounds like a lot of work.

Can you just make a list of places and start visiting them? like longer visits, say 2 weeks not just weekends.

Why do you even need a list?

Or why can't the list wait until you're retired and have decompressed a bit?

I maintain *firmly* that NOTHING about retirement needs to be planned in advance. You could literally leave everything and start thinking about it the day after you retire and it would make no meaningful difference to outcomes.

It's not like years of retirement happen at once.
My point is that people have all the capacity on the world to start addressing these things *in retirement*.

Raenia

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Re: Life design
« Reply #27 on: August 20, 2021, 10:47:19 AM »
I also don't think dislike of phone calls constitutes a mental health barrier that needs resolution.

I never said it was.

I didn't say you said it was.

You did, however, suggest that not "trusting" oneself to maintain social relationships is a problem that requires resolution, and that simply planning around a dislike of certain kinds of social interaction constitutes "micro managing yourself."

all this planning sounds like a lot of work.

Can you just make a list of places and start visiting them? like longer visits, say 2 weeks not just weekends.

Why do you even need a list?

Or why can't the list wait until you're retired and have decompressed a bit?

I maintain *firmly* that NOTHING about retirement needs to be planned in advance. You could literally leave everything and start thinking about it the day after you retire and it would make no meaningful difference to outcomes.

It's not like years of retirement happen at once.
My point is that people have all the capacity on the world to start addressing these things *in retirement*.

Some people will not benefit from planning in advance.  Other people will absolutely stress out less by having thought about it ahead of time.  At the very least, evidence from this forum suggests that many (but not all) people find it far easier to pull the plug when they have thought about it what retirement might look like ahead of time - in which case it absolutely does make a meaningful difference to the outcome.  OMYing because of nerves about what retirement might bring counts as an outcome.

As I said before, though, having a plan doesn't mean one should stick to that plan - it is far more beneficial to use the plan to build your confidence in the decision to retire, then go from there on a week by week basis and allow for decompression to lead you wherever it leads.

You seem to be pushing that no one should do any thinking about retirement until after they have retired, and that seems just as ridiculous as claiming that [everyone[/i] should have a plan.  If that's not your intention, maybe soften your language a bit?

Metalcat

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Re: Life design
« Reply #28 on: August 20, 2021, 11:04:29 AM »
I also don't think dislike of phone calls constitutes a mental health barrier that needs resolution.

I never said it was.

I didn't say you said it was.

You did, however, suggest that not "trusting" oneself to maintain social relationships is a problem that requires resolution, and that simply planning around a dislike of certain kinds of social interaction constitutes "micro managing yourself."

Literally not what I said.
I said addressing mental health barriers is more productive than trying to micro manage yourself around them.

So if someone is prone to isolation and depression, the priority should be the issues underpinning this problem instead of focusing on managing around it.

If social interactions are important to someone and they don't trust themselves to maintain something that is a priority, then yes, I consider that a significant issue to address.


all this planning sounds like a lot of work.

Can you just make a list of places and start visiting them? like longer visits, say 2 weeks not just weekends.

Why do you even need a list?

Or why can't the list wait until you're retired and have decompressed a bit?

I maintain *firmly* that NOTHING about retirement needs to be planned in advance. You could literally leave everything and start thinking about it the day after you retire and it would make no meaningful difference to outcomes.

It's not like years of retirement happen at once.
My point is that people have all the capacity on the world to start addressing these things *in retirement*.

Some people will not benefit from planning in advance.  Other people will absolutely stress out less by having thought about it ahead of time.  At the very least, evidence from this forum suggests that many (but not all) people find it far easier to pull the plug when they have thought about it what retirement might look like ahead of time - in which case it absolutely does make a meaningful difference to the outcome.  OMYing because of nerves about what retirement might bring counts as an outcome.

As I said before, though, having a plan doesn't mean one should stick to that plan - it is far more beneficial to use the plan to build your confidence in the decision to retire, then go from there on a week by week basis and allow for decompression to lead you wherever it leads.

You seem to be pushing that no one should do any thinking about retirement until after they have retired, and that seems just as ridiculous as claiming that [everyone[/i] should have a plan.  If that's not your intention, maybe soften your language a bit?

No, I never said that. I said that no one absolutely needs to and that *some* people really shouldn't. Perhaps I shouldn't say "no one", I can imagine some cases of severe mental health issues where people do need to plan carefully.

However, the vast, vast majority of people *could* put off planning what to do in retirement until they actually retire.

I think people need to realize that. You need to know what your options are before you can make the best choices, and there's an overwhelming messaging, especially here, that waiting is not even an option, that these things need to be hammered out in advance, when they can very reasonably wait.

That's not the same as me saying that people, in general,  shouldn't think about their future. That's not at all what I'm saying, just that it is a very reasonable option.

I have said firmly that for *some*, planning in advance is a bad option. For some it is a good idea, and for many more it is just benign and would be fine either way.

What I push back against aggressively is this concept that everyone needs a plan. I 1000% disagree with that.

Goanywhere

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Re: Life design
« Reply #29 on: August 20, 2021, 12:25:08 PM »
I recommend reading "Designing Your Life," by Bill Burnett and Dave Evans.  "First Things First" by Stephen Covey is also very good.  Both books include exercises intended to help you figure out what's important to you, and what your priorities are.  Then you can build a life plan around those priorities.

Excellent thank you!

Goanywhere

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Re: Life design
« Reply #30 on: August 20, 2021, 12:38:16 PM »
You don't have to plan this in advance.

Once you don't have work occupying your time, you will have plenty of time and mental space to figure out what you want your life to look like.

You can't actually make those decisions now. You will become a very different person once you no longer have a job, and that person will decide what's most important, and won't give a shit what you today think your life should look like.

Let the discovery be part of the fun. This isn't a chore, it's part of the joy of being retired.

I've been retired over a year and I'm just starting to really understand what I need from my retired life.

I too ran around like a little stressed out squirrel trying to gather concepts of what I "should do" in my retirement. I can't help but laugh at that little frenetic creature I used to be.

I do shit now because I want to. I enjoy the process of figuring out what I want in my life. I literally laugh at my past self for thinking that she had ANY say as to what retired me would decide to do with my time.

Cute concept, but stupid. Really stupid.

Spend these last working days getting ready to retire not just your career, but who you are as a working person. Savour every last bit of the parts that you enjoy and then let them go.

Then decompress for a few months, and let the retired you grow and develop at their own pace. You will have to fully relearn how to exist in this world with an entirely different set of pressures and priorities.

Basically, you don't need to plan it, and you actually can't even if you try. A wiser version of yourself will just take over in the future and do whatever the hell they want to anyway, so let it go.

Wow thank you for taking the time to reply to my post.   I had never thought about it like this, but you are completely right.  My job is all consuming and with two young children,  I find it very hard to generate the mental capacity to think about and make decision about the future.    I was getting wound up by question like: where will we live? What school will our children go to? Will we be close to family/friends? Etc.

It may seems strange but it is actually quite a relief to know that is okay not to worry about this stuff now.  I really like the idea of just getting to FI, quiting, decompressing and then working it out from there. 

Thank you again.

Goanywhere

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Re: Life design
« Reply #31 on: August 20, 2021, 12:39:15 PM »
I'll just add, I agree with everything Malcat said, however I don't think that's incompatible with doing some thinking and planning now.  Having some ideas of what you're retiring to can help you take the plunge.  Just be prepared to deviate or even throw the plan out the window when actually living it provides you with new information.

Really good point thank you.   

Goanywhere

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Re: Life design
« Reply #32 on: August 20, 2021, 12:40:39 PM »
Take a big sheet of paper, involve the whole family, put a line down the middle, write on one side “More of this”, and on the other side write “Less of this”. Fill both sides with everything that you all can think of, no matter how far fetched. Then come to a consensus of the top 5 for each side. You can also do this individually. Then imagine what life would be like if you actioned your priorities and if it aligns with your sense of happiness and well-being, put effort into turning ideas into reality. Rinse and repeat as life chugs along.

Great idea.  I’ll definitely give this a go

Goanywhere

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Re: Life design
« Reply #33 on: August 20, 2021, 01:09:38 PM »
Ops I started responding to posts in order and the thread has really taken on a life of its own.  I’ll need to set aside some time to go through it in detail.  Thanks again to everyone that responded

trollwithamustache

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Re: Life design
« Reply #34 on: August 20, 2021, 02:41:25 PM »
all this planning sounds like a lot of work.

Can you just make a list of places and start visiting them? like longer visits, say 2 weeks not just weekends.

Why do you even need a list?

You mean wing it with total freedom? that sounds like FU money :)