Author Topic: How did you find a job you enjoy (that pays well)?  (Read 9678 times)

PoutineLover

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How did you find a job you enjoy (that pays well)?
« on: June 01, 2017, 01:57:56 PM »
I am feeling stuck and I thought I'd come here for some advice. I just graduated from a diploma program in management, prior to this I completed a bachelor in chemical engineering. I have no particular "passion" for either subject, but I do really enjoy learning new things and solving problems, so I don't think they were a waste (and the diploma was paid by my employer). However, I'm currently in a job where the schedule is great (4 short days a week) but the pay is mediocre (40k ish) and I am not feeling satisfied by my work.  My parents are so proud of me and think my current job is great, but I know I'm not happy with it. The goal is to FIRE but I need to earn more and I want to be able to travel in the meantime.
For the past year I've been saying that I'll get a new job as soon as I graduate, and that time is now. The problem is, I have no idea what I want to do, or rather, every job posting I've seen seems like it would either be just as unsatisfying as my current job, or I'm not qualified for it, or I don't know where to look. To give a bit of background on me and my skills, I've been helping to manage an engineering research department at a public university. The bureaucracy and sitting all day is killing me. When I think about how I'd like to spend my days I think I'd like something more active, and not always in front of a screen. Ideally I'd be working with others, but with enough autonomy as well. I enjoy writing, reading, finding solutions to problems, finances. I like working with people, but sometimes I feel like I'm out of touch with how others feel and too focused on ideas (but that may be my engineering inclination). I am really interested in sustainability and would love to have a job that felt meaningful, so companies like the ocean clean up or renewable energy really appeal to me. I would really love to get to travel, and a remote job would be amazing, but I don't even know how I would do that. Having my own business and being my own boss would be so cool but I'm always thinking of ideas then discarding them because I don't know how to get started.
Networking intimidates me, but I know that's a great way to get a job, and applying online is hard because you have to tailor a resume to each job and you are still one of hundreds of candidates. One option will be to talk to the career department of my university, but I've gone there in the past and haven't found it too helpful. Does anyone have any wise words, or any suggestions for careers I might not be thinking of or organizations that I could look into? I know this is broad, but the whole process is overwhelming and I don't know where to start or I'll look and apply to some stuff and just get discouraged when I don't hear back. I apologize for this somewhat rambling post but I know there are so many people I admire here and it's difficult to discuss this with people in my real life. Thanks in advance!

rubybeth

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Re: How did you find a job you enjoy (that pays well)?
« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2017, 02:20:09 PM »
Are there any professional conferences related to what you want to do? It's a more active way to meet people, network, learn stuff, learn about an industry, and travel--all in one! Also, maybe find Facebook job groups for your industries--I'm in a couple for my field (mainly to post my employer's jobs, but it's also interesting to see what else is out there), and it's good to get a feel for duties/ranges of pay.

MVal

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Re: How did you find a job you enjoy (that pays well)?
« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2017, 03:37:33 PM »
I am exactly the same as you, but probably much older. I'm a little over 40K in income and have always felt dissatisfied and bored with my work, but everything else I look at seems like it would be just as bad or worse or like you say, I'm not qualified. I've yet to find a good solution and honestly, it is what motivated me to get into MMM anyway. At least if I am stuck here, I can bring this to as rapid an end as possible. If I run onto something I like better, I'll move on, but in the meantime, I'm staying the course.

I've batted around this wild idea that once I get close to $200K, I'll just quit regardless and do a part time job for year or so, simply to rest and reevaluate. I'd make sure I had a 1-2 year FU fund first just so I wouldn't have the pressure of worrying about getting a new job for a while. At least if I had $200K invested, even if I didn't invest another dime, I could stand to FIRE in about 10 years regardless of what I did in the meantime.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2017, 04:01:24 PM by MVal »

Ocinfo

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Re: How did you find a job you enjoy (that pays well)?
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2017, 05:25:30 PM »
I'll just come out and say it, $40k and you have a chemical engineering degree and some sort of management degree, how does that happen? Are you in a LCOL area? I'm not being mean but minimum starting pay should be $50k+ for any engineering position in LCOL and $65k+ in HCOL with rapid increases towards $75k and $100k+ respectively.

My recommendation is to find an industry you're interested in, learn as much as you can, figure out how you can leverage your skills, and seek out people that can refer you for positions. Many companies pay employees for referrals and it greatly increases the chance you get a call from HR.


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PoutineLover

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Re: How did you find a job you enjoy (that pays well)?
« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2017, 05:50:21 AM »
Ocinfo, you're right, I kinda fucked up. I went the lazy route and took what was supposed to be a temporary part time job and that turned into a longer contract, then I decided to do the diploma program so I stuck with it a little longer cause it was convenient. I didn't really know what I wanted to do and the couple opportunities I had tried to get didn't end up working out. Now I'm trying to fix this before it's too late.

Ocinfo

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Re: How did you find a job you enjoy (that pays well)?
« Reply #5 on: June 02, 2017, 06:34:15 AM »
Ocinfo, you're right, I kinda fucked up. I went the lazy route and took what was supposed to be a temporary part time job and that turned into a longer contract, then I decided to do the diploma program so I stuck with it a little longer cause it was convenient. I didn't really know what I wanted to do and the couple opportunities I had tried to get didn't end up working out. Now I'm trying to fix this before it's too late.

You're trying to fix it and that's all that really matters. Find an industry that interests you and that people/companies spend a lot of money on (for me, it's aviation/aerospace). Could also focus on a specific skill or technology such as a programming language/framework (Java, C#.net, JavaScript and Jquery, Swift) or data analysis/visualization (e.g., HADOOP, SQL, and Tableau). With 6 months of learning (maybe less depending on your experience) and your existing degrees you'll be very employable for significantly more than you make now.

You may have to move depending on current location but there are plenty of well paying, interesting jobs for people with engineering degrees, some tech or domain knowledge, and a willingness to learn.


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zinnie

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Re: How did you find a job you enjoy (that pays well)?
« Reply #6 on: June 02, 2017, 06:38:51 AM »
 The good news is that your degrees and skills are really in demand right now, so I would find some organizations where you are excited about what they are doing and target them. You listed some great areas to target in renewable energy and sustainability--there are tons of opportunities there right now. Join LinkedIn groups, follow industry leaders on twitter, find newsletters and blogs to follow. It will take some work, so start more broad and narrow as you find things that appeal to you. Even if organizations that interest you don't have positions posted, you can send general letters expressing interest to their HR or recruiters. At the very least it's likely to get you a few informal phone chats where you can get more info on what they look for to help you target your search.

And I would visit the career center, too. It can't hurt.

Good luck! This step is the hardest part, but you have a great background and skills to be successful.




Mgmny

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Re: How did you find a job you enjoy (that pays well)?
« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2017, 06:54:03 AM »
Quit early, and quit often. Quitting has been the greatest tool in finding better employment. My salary and happiness progression since Spring of 2014:

1. $57.5k (stupid, miserable job - not doing even 10% of what the job description pretended I would do. This was my first "real" job, and I hung around too long because i was worried about "loyalty.")
2. $60k (happier, but too much travel)
3. $79k (Happiest)
4. $105k (Happy. Left other job for more money. Money sorta can buy happiness).


A mentor of mine suggested this video to me when I was in the thick of hating my job at #1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D73mm29XXAw&t=869s

It's Deepak Malhotra's speech to a graduating class at Harvard - basically he tells you that you are not a moron, and if you aren't doing what you love or making positive changes in the world, you are wasting your valuable time and effort. Furthermore, you were (probably) blessed to be born in the land of freedom and opportunity - you have an excellent education. There is no difference between you and a person born in Liberia, EXCEPT you have been given an EXCELLENT education and the abundance of opportunities. To work in an under-paid, miserable job is WASTING what has been given to you. Quit your job, and find something (anything!) better.  If the next thing sucks, quit that one and move on.

Mgmny

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Re: How did you find a job you enjoy (that pays well)?
« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2017, 06:56:55 AM »
I've batted around this wild idea that once I get close to $200K, I'll just quit regardless and do a part time job for year or so, simply to rest and reevaluate. I'd make sure I had a 1-2 year FU fund first just so I wouldn't have the pressure of worrying about getting a new job for a while. At least if I had $200K invested, even if I didn't invest another dime, I could stand to FIRE in about 10 years regardless of what I did in the meantime.

What? Don't do this. $200k is not enough to FIRE on. Even if you could "stand to FIRE in about 10 years" you MIGHT only have $400k - or a yearly income of $16,000. You can FIRE on $16k a year?

MVal

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Re: How did you find a job you enjoy (that pays well)?
« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2017, 08:10:27 AM »
I've batted around this wild idea that once I get close to $200K, I'll just quit regardless and do a part time job for year or so, simply to rest and reevaluate. I'd make sure I had a 1-2 year FU fund first just so I wouldn't have the pressure of worrying about getting a new job for a while. At least if I had $200K invested, even if I didn't invest another dime, I could stand to FIRE in about 10 years regardless of what I did in the meantime.

What? Don't do this. $200k is not enough to FIRE on. Even if you could "stand to FIRE in about 10 years" you MIGHT only have $400k - or a yearly income of $16,000. You can FIRE on $16k a year?

Yep, that's the plan. $400K is my FIRE number. I would have enough to cover my basic survival expenses. That way I could work at something else I enjoyed or quit something whenever I want and not worry about how I'd make it. Any money I'd make would just serve to make my life a little more comfortable. Ever watched Mike and Lauren on Youtube? They have a similar plan, I think, with a FIRE number $420K.

I just want to stop all obligatory work ASAP and since my salary is not that high and I don't see a way to make it skyrocket anytime soon, this is the plan!

Mgmny

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Re: How did you find a job you enjoy (that pays well)?
« Reply #10 on: June 02, 2017, 08:43:07 AM »
I've batted around this wild idea that once I get close to $200K, I'll just quit regardless and do a part time job for year or so, simply to rest and reevaluate. I'd make sure I had a 1-2 year FU fund first just so I wouldn't have the pressure of worrying about getting a new job for a while. At least if I had $200K invested, even if I didn't invest another dime, I could stand to FIRE in about 10 years regardless of what I did in the meantime.

What? Don't do this. $200k is not enough to FIRE on. Even if you could "stand to FIRE in about 10 years" you MIGHT only have $400k - or a yearly income of $16,000. You can FIRE on $16k a year?

Yep, that's the plan. $400K is my FIRE number. I would have enough to cover my basic survival expenses. That way I could work at something else I enjoyed or quit something whenever I want and not worry about how I'd make it. Any money I'd make would just serve to make my life a little more comfortable. Ever watched Mike and Lauren on Youtube? They have a similar plan, I think, with a FIRE number $420K.

I just want to stop all obligatory work ASAP and since my salary is not that high and I don't see a way to make it skyrocket anytime soon, this is the plan!

Heck! Good for you! You're bolder than me!!

caracarn

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Re: How did you find a job you enjoy (that pays well)?
« Reply #11 on: June 02, 2017, 08:45:21 AM »
To the OP, yes this is a difficult time in your career just starting out.  The difficulty I have in relating to your story, and why I'm not sure that any of my advice will be useful, is I just do not get putting in the work and getting a degree in something you are not passionate about AND that makes money.  Your CE degree should lead to a good income, the general management degree, not so much.  That's going to take experience to prove your chops.  There is nothing you learn in a management degree that really makes you employable unless the particular employer is just looking for a credential.  The only reason I ever got my MBA, 10 years after I got my BS in computers as because higher level management jobs wanted it.  But after working for a decade I can honestly say I learned almost nothing, and could have taught most of the courses.  The only exception to that was the capstone class where we had to create a business plan, and that gave me some angles that I had not used before, but still was just working through a workbook to create the various segments of the plan. 

So I would focus on figuring out as quickly as you can what you ARE passionate about and hopefully you can find one of those that actually is lucrative.  Too many people are passionate about music or art or literature, but you're not going to make a lot of money in any of those unless you make it big as a famous person.  The good news is the management degree gets you some basics to at least explain the shift into something other than CE because every place needs management, but you will need to work you way up most likely as you are not going to fall into and $80K middle manager role without ever having had people reporting to you.  This is where the degree does not help you.

I love what I do for work and therefore have always been very valuable to my employer because I could learn the whole business in six months and help make changes that improve the bottom line after that.  It's a lot of work, and if a skill set that seems is in very short supply as most people I come in contact with do not get how I can do what I do in the way I do it, but I do not feel it is anything special.  But I think that comes from passion about the work and servicing customers, and if you do not have that about your jobs, I'm not sure how much of that ability to succeed will be quashed by the lack of passion.  That's why I suggest make that your focus, because I think otherwise you are just not motivated enough to become valuable to anyone to pay you significantly more than you are making now.  I've got a lot of people who make $80K plus, who do the bare minimum and are all in danger of getting replaced with more enthusiastic workers who do something to help the company versus just being reactive, so I cannot underestimate the difference I see as a manager from someone who has passion versus someone who does not, so I again emphasize that.

MVal

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Re: How did you find a job you enjoy (that pays well)?
« Reply #12 on: June 02, 2017, 09:22:53 AM »
I've batted around this wild idea that once I get close to $200K, I'll just quit regardless and do a part time job for year or so, simply to rest and reevaluate. I'd make sure I had a 1-2 year FU fund first just so I wouldn't have the pressure of worrying about getting a new job for a while. At least if I had $200K invested, even if I didn't invest another dime, I could stand to FIRE in about 10 years regardless of what I did in the meantime.

What? Don't do this. $200k is not enough to FIRE on. Even if you could "stand to FIRE in about 10 years" you MIGHT only have $400k - or a yearly income of $16,000. You can FIRE on $16k a year?

Yep, that's the plan. $400K is my FIRE number. I would have enough to cover my basic survival expenses. That way I could work at something else I enjoyed or quit something whenever I want and not worry about how I'd make it. Any money I'd make would just serve to make my life a little more comfortable. Ever watched Mike and Lauren on Youtube? They have a similar plan, I think, with a FIRE number $420K.

I just want to stop all obligatory work ASAP and since my salary is not that high and I don't see a way to make it skyrocket anytime soon, this is the plan!

Heck! Good for you! You're bolder than me!!

Ha, thanks! Or just desperate, is more like it. ;) I'll live on beans and old bread if it means I can get off this hamster wheel!

Lanthiriel

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Re: How did you find a job you enjoy (that pays well)?
« Reply #13 on: June 02, 2017, 05:22:10 PM »
I'm in the civil engineering field, which is different, but I wonder with an engineering background if you would like surveying or materials testing. Tons of companies are trying to fill these jobs this time of year. It's a lot of outdoor time and being active and lots of hours, usually with overtime. Worst case scenario you'd be making $20/hr working 40 hours/week, but you could be looking at up to $30/hr at 60 hours/week. It would give you a look at the other side of the office environment, and you would meet lots of people from engineering firms and contractors who would be good contacts. Just something to think about if you're looking for an easy way to switch things up.

epower

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Re: How did you find a job you enjoy (that pays well)?
« Reply #14 on: June 03, 2017, 01:27:13 PM »
1. Go to a careers advisor/coach outside of your university.

2. Read "so good they can't ignore you" it disproves the myth that finding your passion in work is the key to a happy career.

3. Realise you aren't going to have your dream job in your 20's.

4. If you are terribly unhappy then move jobs.

5. Go through recruitment agents/ head hunters and use them to look for jobs on your behalf rather than you applying for jobs online.

6. Travel a bit more now. Don't leave it until FIRE. Perhaps do a Europe gap year?

Sarah Saverdink

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Re: How did you find a job you enjoy (that pays well)?
« Reply #15 on: June 03, 2017, 08:35:14 PM »
Quit early, and quit often. Quitting has been the greatest tool in finding better employment. My salary and happiness progression since Spring of 2014:

1. $57.5k (stupid, miserable job - not doing even 10% of what the job description pretended I would do. This was my first "real" job, and I hung around too long because i was worried about "loyalty.")
2. $60k (happier, but too much travel)
3. $79k (Happiest)
4. $105k (Happy. Left other job for more money. Money sorta can buy happiness).

I'm an engineer and now an engineering manager who has done a lot of hiring over the past 4 years. I would not hire a candidate who jobs hops too often. It can be indicative of a poor performer (keeps getting laid off/fired) or someone who has no loyalty and will move on in a year. Yes, if you are new in your career and "finding yourself" changing jobs 2, maybe 3 times in the first couple years is OK. More than that? Be careful.

I do agree that it's difficult to get into management without directly related experience or coming up the ranks internally. You may need to focus on a more technical role and then see what leadership opportunities arise once you are settled in the organization.

Mgmny

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Re: How did you find a job you enjoy (that pays well)?
« Reply #16 on: June 04, 2017, 04:52:21 AM »
Quit early, and quit often. Quitting has been the greatest tool in finding better employment. My salary and happiness progression since Spring of 2014:

1. $57.5k (stupid, miserable job - not doing even 10% of what the job description pretended I would do. This was my first "real" job, and I hung around too long because i was worried about "loyalty.")
2. $60k (happier, but too much travel)
3. $79k (Happiest)
4. $105k (Happy. Left other job for more money. Money sorta can buy happiness).

I'm an engineer and now an engineering manager who has done a lot of hiring over the past 4 years. I would not hire a candidate who jobs hops too often. It can be indicative of a poor performer (keeps getting laid off/fired) or someone who has no loyalty and will move on in a year. Yes, if you are new in your career and "finding yourself" changing jobs 2, maybe 3 times in the first couple years is OK. More than that? Be careful.

I do agree that it's difficult to get into management without directly related experience or coming up the ranks internally. You may need to focus on a more technical role and then see what leadership opportunities arise once you are settled in the organization.

No one has ever asked about my job history "hopping," but I may be pre-screened before I get to a point where they even ask questions. That said, I didn't apply for any of my jobs above except #1 - the rest were recruiters reaching out to me for the position, so it was never brought up.

Also, I think it helps that 3&4 above are "contract" positions, so people assume the work is temporary anyways. Because these two are listed as "contract," people don't get hung up on my shorter stints at #1&2 either it seems.

Contracting plug: HIGHLY recommend (in this economy) for new, consultant-type graduates. Tons of experience in varied industries, organizations, business software, contacts/networking, etc. Also, pay is usually higher because of the risk.

Ocinfo

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Re: How did you find a job you enjoy (that pays well)?
« Reply #17 on: June 04, 2017, 08:10:50 AM »
Quit early, and quit often. Quitting has been the greatest tool in finding better employment. My salary and happiness progression since Spring of 2014:

1. $57.5k (stupid, miserable job - not doing even 10% of what the job description pretended I would do. This was my first "real" job, and I hung around too long because i was worried about "loyalty.")
2. $60k (happier, but too much travel)
3. $79k (Happiest)
4. $105k (Happy. Left other job for more money. Money sorta can buy happiness).

I'm an engineer and now an engineering manager who has done a lot of hiring over the past 4 years. I would not hire a candidate who jobs hops too often. It can be indicative of a poor performer (keeps getting laid off/fired) or someone who has no loyalty and will move on in a year. Yes, if you are new in your career and "finding yourself" changing jobs 2, maybe 3 times in the first couple years is OK. More than that? Be careful.

I do agree that it's difficult to get into management without directly related experience or coming up the ranks internally. You may need to focus on a more technical role and then see what leadership opportunities arise once you are settled in the organization.

Job hopping isn't an issue for me when conducting interviews as long as there is a reason such as a recognizable progression in company "prestige" or I know that company XYZ won or lost a big contract. I do like to see at least one multiyear stint somewhere. My red flag would be if someone worked at a great company that's known as a terminal employer (that is a company that most people want to work for as long as possible) but only stayed a year without much explanation.

The main reason I generally don't hold job hopping against people is that many (most?) companies don't provide proper raises, especially for younger engineers whose skill value is growing double digits but whose salary goes up 3-5%. Its often easy to get a 20%+ raise simply by changing companies.


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Sarah Saverdink

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Re: How did you find a job you enjoy (that pays well)?
« Reply #18 on: June 04, 2017, 06:21:39 PM »
Quit early, and quit often. Quitting has been the greatest tool in finding better employment. My salary and happiness progression since Spring of 2014:

1. $57.5k (stupid, miserable job - not doing even 10% of what the job description pretended I would do. This was my first "real" job, and I hung around too long because i was worried about "loyalty.")
2. $60k (happier, but too much travel)
3. $79k (Happiest)
4. $105k (Happy. Left other job for more money. Money sorta can buy happiness).

I'm an engineer and now an engineering manager who has done a lot of hiring over the past 4 years. I would not hire a candidate who jobs hops too often. It can be indicative of a poor performer (keeps getting laid off/fired) or someone who has no loyalty and will move on in a year. Yes, if you are new in your career and "finding yourself" changing jobs 2, maybe 3 times in the first couple years is OK. More than that? Be careful.

I do agree that it's difficult to get into management without directly related experience or coming up the ranks internally. You may need to focus on a more technical role and then see what leadership opportunities arise once you are settled in the organization.

No one has ever asked about my job history "hopping," but I may be pre-screened before I get to a point where they even ask questions. That said, I didn't apply for any of my jobs above except #1 - the rest were recruiters reaching out to me for the position, so it was never brought up.

Also, I think it helps that 3&4 above are "contract" positions, so people assume the work is temporary anyways. Because these two are listed as "contract," people don't get hung up on my shorter stints at #1&2 either it seems.

Contracting plug: HIGHLY recommend (in this economy) for new, consultant-type graduates. Tons of experience in varied industries, organizations, business software, contacts/networking, etc. Also, pay is usually higher because of the risk.

OK, I will revise my statement. If you are a contractor/consultant seeking temporary positions, then yes, your work history makes sense! I typically hire permanent employees and those with frequent job changes who are seeking a long-term, permanent position tend to be the less qualified candidates.

Contract positions tend to pay higher hourly rates, but don't typically come with benefits (401k matching, health insurance, paid time off, etc). Mgmny, do you receive benefits at your consultant jobs?

Mgmny

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Re: How did you find a job you enjoy (that pays well)?
« Reply #19 on: June 05, 2017, 06:31:14 AM »
Quit early, and quit often. Quitting has been the greatest tool in finding better employment. My salary and happiness progression since Spring of 2014:

1. $57.5k (stupid, miserable job - not doing even 10% of what the job description pretended I would do. This was my first "real" job, and I hung around too long because i was worried about "loyalty.")
2. $60k (happier, but too much travel)
3. $79k (Happiest)
4. $105k (Happy. Left other job for more money. Money sorta can buy happiness).

I'm an engineer and now an engineering manager who has done a lot of hiring over the past 4 years. I would not hire a candidate who jobs hops too often. It can be indicative of a poor performer (keeps getting laid off/fired) or someone who has no loyalty and will move on in a year. Yes, if you are new in your career and "finding yourself" changing jobs 2, maybe 3 times in the first couple years is OK. More than that? Be careful.

I do agree that it's difficult to get into management without directly related experience or coming up the ranks internally. You may need to focus on a more technical role and then see what leadership opportunities arise once you are settled in the organization.

No one has ever asked about my job history "hopping," but I may be pre-screened before I get to a point where they even ask questions. That said, I didn't apply for any of my jobs above except #1 - the rest were recruiters reaching out to me for the position, so it was never brought up.

Also, I think it helps that 3&4 above are "contract" positions, so people assume the work is temporary anyways. Because these two are listed as "contract," people don't get hung up on my shorter stints at #1&2 either it seems.

Contracting plug: HIGHLY recommend (in this economy) for new, consultant-type graduates. Tons of experience in varied industries, organizations, business software, contacts/networking, etc. Also, pay is usually higher because of the risk.

OK, I will revise my statement. If you are a contractor/consultant seeking temporary positions, then yes, your work history makes sense! I typically hire permanent employees and those with frequent job changes who are seeking a long-term, permanent position tend to be the less qualified candidates.

Contract positions tend to pay higher hourly rates, but don't typically come with benefits (401k matching, health insurance, paid time off, etc). Mgmny, do you receive benefits at your consultant jobs?

I do not. I will have access to a 401k plan in November of this year if i stay with my current company, but i do not get PTO, insurance of any kind, etc. I believe that because I am technically a W2 employee, they legally have to offer health insurance, but I was told the plan they offer their contractors is terrible and expensive just to comply with the laws. I get all my insurance through my wife's work, and will put 100% of my pay this November to 401k (to ALMOST hit the 18k) if i'm still with the same company.

matchewed

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Re: How did you find a job you enjoy (that pays well)?
« Reply #20 on: June 05, 2017, 07:18:00 AM »
I learned how to enjoy different things.

PoutineLover

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Re: How did you find a job you enjoy (that pays well)?
« Reply #21 on: June 05, 2017, 10:18:07 AM »
Thanks for all the replies! I see a lot of good tips here. I will read that book (so good they can't ignore you) it looks pretty useful. I've also had a few others on my list like the 4 hour work week and How to win friends and influence people, other suggestions are welcome as well. I currently get emails from my schools alumni association and other groups I can tap into, so instead of ignoring them I will start going to events.
I think I do have a passion for curling, and I spend a lot of time on that, both playing, coaching and as a member of the board at my club, and that does give me some side income but I don't think I can translate that into a full time job and it doesn't necessarily use my education, although there may be a good angle there that I haven't thought of. I have considered taking a gap year to figure things out but I need to make arrangements for my cat and my apartment and my stuff (doable but not simple) but mainly I've been saving up and wouldn't leave without a good amount of money to tide me over, and I'm just not there yet. I see a lot of stories like "I quit my job to travel the world for a year and it changed my life and I never went back" and that appeals to me but I keep thinking there must be a catch. I don't want to spend all of my retirement money on a trip and restart at 0 and I won't go into debt to travel either. I do think I can travel for cheap by exchanging work for accommodations and maybe teaching English, but those seem like not the best career moves to make.
Since part of my problem is finding the motivation to go out and do the hard work, I want to set aside a time that is dedicated to me and my career. I have Fridays off every week, so I will schedule say, 10-4 on Fridays as my career time. Applying for jobs, reading books that have a purpose, learning or improving my skills, networking (although that may end up being at other times too). I'm writing it here to be more accountable, since I know myself and my habit of procrastinating things that don't have strict deadlines. My current contract is up on Sept. 15 so the goal is to get a new position before then.

MVal

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Re: How did you find a job you enjoy (that pays well)?
« Reply #22 on: June 05, 2017, 10:35:54 AM »
Thanks for all the replies! I see a lot of good tips here. I will read that book (so good they can't ignore you) it looks pretty useful. I've also had a few others on my list like the 4 hour work week and How to win friends and influence people, other suggestions are welcome as well. I currently get emails from my schools alumni association and other groups I can tap into, so instead of ignoring them I will start going to events.
I think I do have a passion for curling, and I spend a lot of time on that, both playing, coaching and as a member of the board at my club, and that does give me some side income but I don't think I can translate that into a full time job and it doesn't necessarily use my education, although there may be a good angle there that I haven't thought of. I have considered taking a gap year to figure things out but I need to make arrangements for my cat and my apartment and my stuff (doable but not simple) but mainly I've been saving up and wouldn't leave without a good amount of money to tide me over, and I'm just not there yet. I see a lot of stories like "I quit my job to travel the world for a year and it changed my life and I never went back" and that appeals to me but I keep thinking there must be a catch. I don't want to spend all of my retirement money on a trip and restart at 0 and I won't go into debt to travel either. I do think I can travel for cheap by exchanging work for accommodations and maybe teaching English, but those seem like not the best career moves to make.
Since part of my problem is finding the motivation to go out and do the hard work, I want to set aside a time that is dedicated to me and my career. I have Fridays off every week, so I will schedule say, 10-4 on Fridays as my career time. Applying for jobs, reading books that have a purpose, learning or improving my skills, networking (although that may end up being at other times too). I'm writing it here to be more accountable, since I know myself and my habit of procrastinating things that don't have strict deadlines. My current contract is up on Sept. 15 so the goal is to get a new position before then.

You sound similar to myself in terms of looking for open possibilities and trouble with procrastination. I wonder if you've ever done the Myers-Briggs test? If not, you might enjoy seeing what insights you can glean about yourself.

https://www.16personalities.com/free-personality-test

PoutineLover

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Re: How did you find a job you enjoy (that pays well)?
« Reply #23 on: June 05, 2017, 12:56:18 PM »
MVal, I have done it and I am INTP. What's yours? I do find the MB interesting, and it does describe me well for the most part. Engineering is considered to be a good fit and it also shows that very people and service focused careers are not good for me, which I tend to agree with. Looking a the list of possible careers (https://www.truity.com/personality-type/INTP/careers), being a writer, editor or technical writer does appeal to me, and so do certain tech and science careers, although I like to think in terms of big pictures more than tiny details. This "An ideal organization for an INTP is flexible and non-traditional, and values ingenuity over conformity. An ideal job for an INTP allows them to address complex theoretical or technical problems with creative, novel solutions." is basically what I want, but where I'm struggling is how to find that.

FLBiker

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Re: How did you find a job you enjoy (that pays well)?
« Reply #24 on: June 05, 2017, 01:13:34 PM »
I enjoyed reading this thread, and I've had a pretty different experience.

I graduated with a degree in English lit / creative writing.  I went overseas (Taiwan) and taught English for 5 years.  I liked teaching, but I was really drawn by a desire to live overseas.  Then, I did an MA degree (paid for by a teaching assistantship).  Then I taught for a year in China (again, primarily not motivated by professional ambition).  Throughout that time, I was always very frugal, but I never made very much.  In Taiwan I made ~$25000 per year (and saved ~$10000, despite travelling a lot, eating out all the time, buying music gear, etc.).

Then I came back to the US and switched into admin.  I started at $40K, and now (8 years in) make $80K.  I've had 6 titles during that time.  I attribute my relative success to being a competent person in a time of tremendous growth and change (which was wholly outside of my control).  I wouldn't say I love my job, but I do like it.  The people are nice, and I get to do some fun stuff with database development / data analysis.  It's also very low stress, and I get no micromanagement (no one really understands what I do).

I do get bored sometimes, and think about "following my passion" or whatever, but I've got a 2 year old daughter, and DW has been a SAHM for the past two years.  We also have awesome health insurance.  DW is going back to work this fall, though, and when DD starts elementary school, I think I'll try something else.  We should have significant FU money by that time, too -- FIRE fund currently sitting at about $575K.  We shall see!

MVal

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Re: How did you find a job you enjoy (that pays well)?
« Reply #25 on: June 05, 2017, 05:00:32 PM »
MVal, I have done it and I am INTP. What's yours? I do find the MB interesting, and it does describe me well for the most part. Engineering is considered to be a good fit and it also shows that very people and service focused careers are not good for me, which I tend to agree with. Looking a the list of possible careers (https://www.truity.com/personality-type/INTP/careers), being a writer, editor or technical writer does appeal to me, and so do certain tech and science careers, although I like to think in terms of big pictures more than tiny details. This "An ideal organization for an INTP is flexible and non-traditional, and values ingenuity over conformity. An ideal job for an INTP allows them to address complex theoretical or technical problems with creative, novel solutions." is basically what I want, but where I'm struggling is how to find that.

I KNEW you were INTP!! LOL!  I am INFP. You sounded so much like me except for being good at engineering, so I figured you had to be introverted and a thinker and your "P" was so obvious. ;)  The bad news for folks like us is we live in such an ESTJ world and there just doesn't seem to be a good fit for us. I'm almost 35 and still feel like I'm floundering in life, even though I'm holding it together pretty well, on average...I just haven't found a rewarding career is all and haven't truly settled down. I may never.
I also enjoy writing (majored in English), flexibility and the big picture. If you ever find satisfying work, let me know and vice versa!
« Last Edit: June 05, 2017, 05:03:35 PM by MVal »

Laura33

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Re: How did you find a job you enjoy (that pays well)?
« Reply #26 on: June 06, 2017, 06:37:48 AM »
OK, as a fellow INTP, I now have to weigh in.  The problem is very likely not the job itself, it is the people doing the job.  I have had that square-peg-round-hole feeling many times, until I found this place.  Why?  The business world is designed around S/Js, so I always felt different and couldn't communicate effectively, and it felt really stupid to be criticized for stapling the TPS reports horizontally instead of vertically, because who really gives a shit, you know?  But it turns out this place is very heavily NTPs (seriously, we're like 2% of all lawyers, but the firm was like 50%).  Suddenly I would say something and the person I was talking to would *get* me; they didn't have a lot of procedures or policies, it was more "be a professional and do your job" -- basically, the things that seemed were important to me were important to them, and the ones that seemed not worth bothering about to me also didn't really matter to them.  And the magic was that that helped me perform better -- it's amazing what being appreciated, recognized as competent, and judged fairly does for your morale and desire to go back to work the next day!

So my advice would be to stop worrying so much about the specific career path and just keep looking until you find an environment you fit in.  Forget "follow your passion" -- I'm 51 and still haven't found mine.  And I guarantee you that if you focus on fun things, there will be a gazillion other people vying for the same spot, because who doesn't want to be paid for having fun?  And the basic rules of supply and demand say that this will drive salaries down in those fields.  So if you want to make a good salary, focus on what you are good at and enjoy/don't mind doing that other people either can't do or just flat-out hate.  I mean, fortunes have been made collecting garbage.  Think in terms of your skills -- of what you can do and don't mind that others can't or won't -- and then look for opportunities in the business world that fit what you have to offer, where you can fill an underserved, lucrative niche. 

Example/illustration:  I love writing and wanted to be an author but didn't want to starve/scrape by.  I also really love puzzles -- there's nothing like that satisfying mental "click" when the last piece falls into place.  Turns out, all of that makes for a pretty decent regulatory lawyer -- the regulatory work is something others find either horrendously dull or too complex to follow, but when the last piece slips into place and it all makes sense, I get that same feeling as finishing a puzzle.  And it turns out writing briefs is pretty awesome [insert joke about "fiction" here]; and when the argument all fits together like a puzzle, it's a two-fer.  That's what I mean by "skills" -- not the things you do to turn your brain off, but the things you do that turn your brain on, that get you engaged and excited; and not even the "stuff" itself (hobbies/sports), but the specific skill that you deploy when you are doing that engaging thing. 

Now the bad news: it gets way better as you get more experience and more senior.  Especially for big-picture people, there's nothing like being responsible for the strategy, with peons to implement the boring stuff. :-)  But unfortunately, there's no way to avoid the slog of the peon years to get to that level.  So, again, the key is to find a place with enough people who get you, and work that isn't soul-deadening, that you can throw yourself into it, get positive reinforcement, and build the experience that allows you to get to the really fun stuff. 

MVal

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Re: How did you find a job you enjoy (that pays well)?
« Reply #27 on: June 06, 2017, 08:30:30 AM »
OK, as a fellow INTP, I now have to weigh in.  The problem is very likely not the job itself, it is the people doing the job.  I have had that square-peg-round-hole feeling many times, until I found this place.  Why?  The business world is designed around S/Js, so I always felt different and couldn't communicate effectively, and it felt really stupid to be criticized for stapling the TPS reports horizontally instead of vertically, because who really gives a shit, you know?  But it turns out this place is very heavily NTPs (seriously, we're like 2% of all lawyers, but the firm was like 50%).  Suddenly I would say something and the person I was talking to would *get* me; they didn't have a lot of procedures or policies, it was more "be a professional and do your job" -- basically, the things that seemed were important to me were important to them, and the ones that seemed not worth bothering about to me also didn't really matter to them.  And the magic was that that helped me perform better -- it's amazing what being appreciated, recognized as competent, and judged fairly does for your morale and desire to go back to work the next day!

So my advice would be to stop worrying so much about the specific career path and just keep looking until you find an environment you fit in.  Forget "follow your passion" -- I'm 51 and still haven't found mine.  And I guarantee you that if you focus on fun things, there will be a gazillion other people vying for the same spot, because who doesn't want to be paid for having fun?  And the basic rules of supply and demand say that this will drive salaries down in those fields.  So if you want to make a good salary, focus on what you are good at and enjoy/don't mind doing that other people either can't do or just flat-out hate.  I mean, fortunes have been made collecting garbage.  Think in terms of your skills -- of what you can do and don't mind that others can't or won't -- and then look for opportunities in the business world that fit what you have to offer, where you can fill an underserved, lucrative niche. 

Example/illustration:  I love writing and wanted to be an author but didn't want to starve/scrape by.  I also really love puzzles -- there's nothing like that satisfying mental "click" when the last piece falls into place.  Turns out, all of that makes for a pretty decent regulatory lawyer -- the regulatory work is something others find either horrendously dull or too complex to follow, but when the last piece slips into place and it all makes sense, I get that same feeling as finishing a puzzle.  And it turns out writing briefs is pretty awesome [insert joke about "fiction" here]; and when the argument all fits together like a puzzle, it's a two-fer.  That's what I mean by "skills" -- not the things you do to turn your brain off, but the things you do that turn your brain on, that get you engaged and excited; and not even the "stuff" itself (hobbies/sports), but the specific skill that you deploy when you are doing that engaging thing. 

Now the bad news: it gets way better as you get more experience and more senior.  Especially for big-picture people, there's nothing like being responsible for the strategy, with peons to implement the boring stuff. :-)  But unfortunately, there's no way to avoid the slog of the peon years to get to that level.  So, again, the key is to find a place with enough people who get you, and work that isn't soul-deadening, that you can throw yourself into it, get positive reinforcement, and build the experience that allows you to get to the really fun stuff.

That is great advice. Perhaps you are right about the people-groove thing. I love my coworkers and we all get along, but we definitely don't understand each other. The things that turn them on I have zero interest in and vice versa. I feel misunderstood and inept compared to them. And yes, for the most part, I have given up on the idea of finding work I am passionate about, but maybe, like you say, being around the right personalities would go a long way towards feeling inspired to go to work and actually want to perform well. I had never really thought of it from that perspective. And you're right, anything "fun" I've thought of is way too competitive.

The only thing I can come up with at the moment that fits my skills, inclinations and wouldn't take going back to school is teaching ESL. I'm hoping to start doing it part time online soon, if I can get my schedule more nailed down. What I'd really enjoy is working in a nature center, but that doesn't pay but peanuts and full time gigs are hard to come by. Another thing that I think would appeal to me if I DID go back to school is Occupational Therapy. I've heard you can get a pretty decent salary as an OT assistant and it only takes two years of training. It's not exactly my passion, but the one-on-one interaction and feeling like you're directly helping someone improve their life would be rewarding. I think at this point, anything like law school or the like is too costly and too big of a mountain for me to scale, but I will think more now in terms of my skills and where I might find other weirdos like myself to interact with.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2017, 08:58:37 AM by MVal »

BlueHouse

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Re: How did you find a job you enjoy (that pays well)?
« Reply #28 on: June 06, 2017, 08:38:27 AM »
You might try joining a small consulting firm in your field.  In a consulting firm, you'll get to work with different clients in different locations and see which aspects of each you like (if you do good work, they all try to hire you, so if you find one you like, stay there).  So you get a little variety and a little travel and a ton of experience with multiple companies.  In addition, the reason for choosing a small firm to work for is so that there is cross-functional work.  I love training people, but can only do about 2-3 days in a row.  I could never be a trainer for a living.  But I can provide "a training class" to a client. 

Working for small consulting companies made it easier to transform that into my own company.  I had built up enough of a direct network and I had seen enough at various companies to become kind of an expert in how things are done across many industries. 

MVal

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Re: How did you find a job you enjoy (that pays well)?
« Reply #29 on: June 06, 2017, 09:12:49 AM »
You might try joining a small consulting firm in your field.  In a consulting firm, you'll get to work with different clients in different locations and see which aspects of each you like (if you do good work, they all try to hire you, so if you find one you like, stay there).  So you get a little variety and a little travel and a ton of experience with multiple companies.  In addition, the reason for choosing a small firm to work for is so that there is cross-functional work.  I love training people, but can only do about 2-3 days in a row.  I could never be a trainer for a living.  But I can provide "a training class" to a client. 

Working for small consulting companies made it easier to transform that into my own company.  I had built up enough of a direct network and I had seen enough at various companies to become kind of an expert in how things are done across many industries.

Hmmm, that is interesting. However, I'm not sure what I'd consult since I'm basically just a secretary for a commercial property management company. I don't really know as much as I should even about the business (because I really don't care, ha!), so I don't know how much help I could be to anyone. However, the idea of being a trainer of some sort is interesting to me. Teaching one on one is enjoyable.

MVal

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Re: How did you find a job you enjoy (that pays well)?
« Reply #30 on: June 06, 2017, 09:50:01 AM »
There are also many volunteer projects I would like to be involved with that I currently don't have time for that could possibly lead to future full time work. If I took a hiatus from work I could fully immerse myself in those things and spend more time developing the skills and exposure to what I would rather do. That's another possibility of quitting.

PoutineLover

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Re: How did you find a job you enjoy (that pays well)?
« Reply #31 on: June 06, 2017, 11:35:57 AM »
I do actually like the idea of consulting, but I always thought it took more experience than what I currently have. Definitely something to investigate further. I do actually enjoy teaching people if they are quick learners, so depending on the level training could be good too. I took a strategic management class that I loved and the teacher runs a consulting company and had a similar experience with engineering where he studied it then realized it wasn't what he wanted to do forever. His outlook on life is actually very similar to mine (from the limited amount he shared) and of all my professors, he was one of the most competent and interesting. I should see if I can talk to him about this, although the thought of asking him for advice intimidates me a bit.

Broadway2019

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Re: How did you find a job you enjoy (that pays well)?
« Reply #32 on: June 06, 2017, 01:11:19 PM »
PWC and Deloitte hire entry level consultants w/ good pay/benefits if you can get in.

PoutineLover

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Re: How did you find a job you enjoy (that pays well)?
« Reply #33 on: June 07, 2017, 08:34:37 AM »
Also, Laura, thank you for your response. I see a lot of similarities between us, although we are at different life stages. I get that same feeling of not fitting in a lot of the time, and it's hard to find people I can really relate to. Your writing/puzzle example really spoke to me, but I don't think I want to go back to school to be a lawyer, I'll have to find another way to apply that idea to my career. I'll have to work hard at finding my own niche, and finding a company with a culture I can get behind. I've gone for a couple interviews where I knew it wouldn't work, like at a brewing company (I do love beer) but where it seemed so "frat bro" which I absolutely hated. You are probably right about having to slog through the boring stuff though.. I recognize that at 25 I won't be given a top management position so I have to work my way up. I'll just have to find ways to avoid burning out or checking out mentally while I'm getting there, and that would be easier with like-minded coworkers.

Laura33

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Re: How did you find a job you enjoy (that pays well)?
« Reply #34 on: June 07, 2017, 07:25:06 PM »
Also, Laura, thank you for your response. I see a lot of similarities between us, although we are at different life stages. I get that same feeling of not fitting in a lot of the time, and it's hard to find people I can really relate to. Your writing/puzzle example really spoke to me, but I don't think I want to go back to school to be a lawyer, I'll have to find another way to apply that idea to my career. I'll have to work hard at finding my own niche, and finding a company with a culture I can get behind. I've gone for a couple interviews where I knew it wouldn't work, like at a brewing company (I do love beer) but where it seemed so "frat bro" which I absolutely hated. You are probably right about having to slog through the boring stuff though.. I recognize that at 25 I won't be given a top management position so I have to work my way up. I'll just have to find ways to avoid burning out or checking out mentally while I'm getting there, and that would be easier with like-minded coworkers.


Hahahahaha - the last thing I'd recommend nowadays is law school for anyone, especially if you aren't already 100% sure that's what you want.  ;-)  But I'm glad the illustrations made sense (I kinda thought you spoke my language).  The one thing I will say is that being the outlier gives you a grand opportunity to study how others work and communicate and learn to bridge the gap and improve your own weaknesses (e.g., I am never going to be detail-oriented, but I have learned both to do it well enough to meet client needs and to build in backstops just in case).  So while it can be miserable when you are in the midst of figuring it all out, it makes you really valuable as a well-rounded employee and translator/communicator when you get to the other side.

zinethstache

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Re: How did you find a job you enjoy (that pays well)?
« Reply #35 on: June 07, 2017, 07:34:00 PM »
My first job right out of high school was as a stock room clerk. It was in a larger company and It gave me the opportunity to see other types of "jobs" from working on an assembly line to Engineering. I worked 4 different positions there: I moved within 6 months to Cost Accounting where I honed my 10 key skills doing time card and plating (outside vending invoices) input. I found myself pretty bored with that and in a year I'd moved to Engineering and worked for 8 years as a Lighting Engineering Aide in many roles, in the end of that job I was acting as a Manufacturing Engineer, fixing failed parts and writing change notices. On the side during that time I picked up desktop publishing, started a side business and for that same company I would create all sorts of wonderful materials for them at $30/hour which was almost 3x my day pay (this was 30 years ago). I also started to assist our resident CAD guy who took care of the very small fleet of PCs. Which eventually led to me moving to IT as a LAN Administrator.

Whew, and that isn't even the last 20 years! I agree with the move around alot. I also was always doing side gigs for the fun/lucratic aspects of staying busy.

If you see someone doing work that interests you, see if there's a way you can get the feel for it, volunteering or helping out and go from there!

Kathryn K.

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Re: How did you find a job you enjoy (that pays well)?
« Reply #36 on: June 07, 2017, 07:42:23 PM »
Do you have any actual ChemE work experience? Did you do any internships or co-ops during undergrad? Do you WANT to work as a ChemE? That would be your most direct bet for earning a decent salary in a short amount of time, but if you don't have any work experience it will be harder but certainly not impossible.  Working as an engineer is quite different from academic coursework - not sure if that would appeal or not.  You can shoot for the type of engineering role where won't spend all your time working on the computer. I worked in manufacturing and spent quite a bit of time on the floor, which I enjoyed.

I wouldn't give up on the ChemE route yet if you're at all open to it. Heck, looking back on it I wish I had done ChemE rather than mechanical. (For background I got my B.S. in mechanical engineering, did a couple co-ops along the way, got hired by one of them FT, worked at that company for several years eventually transitioning into a non-engineering role, and then went into a completely different field based on an opportunity that came up through a personal connection.)

PoutineLover

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Re: How did you find a job you enjoy (that pays well)?
« Reply #37 on: June 08, 2017, 09:26:45 AM »
Kathryn, no I don't really have any chem eng work experience. I had a part time job in university that ramped up to full time in the summer, so I stayed there but I kinda regret that. Part of it was that I was picky about what kinds of work I wanted to do, and I also didn't have the highest marks. I'm not really interested in oil and gas, and that's where a lot of the jobs and internships were, and most internships listed a minimum GPA that I didn't have so I didn't bother. In hindsight, maybe I should have applied to more anyway, and now I'm not sure if it's too late to get back into chem eng. Maybe I shouldn't be so selective about where I work, but I don't care enough about earning more if it means I have to live in the middle of nowhere or work in an industry that I hate, and that's what so many chem eng jobs seem to be.
I've thought about moving for work, but part of what's stopping me is that I have a really good quality of life here in a city that I really enjoy living in. I can bike or transit to work so I don't need a car, I live in an affordable, progressive and accepting city and I have a strong network of friends and contacts. My current job is not very stressful, the days are short and I work only half the days of the year which is nice, I'm just bored, I don't see much advancement here and I can only save 20% which isn't enough. I know I could find/create a good life elsewhere but restarting from scratch is hard. I'm willing to move, but only for the right opportunity because it's not just about the job and the salary, I need balance too. I'm torn between wanting to earn a lot more even if the job sucks so I can retire early and finding a job that motivates me but where I may have to spend a little longer doing it. Or maybe there is no dichotomy and I can find a job that ticks all the boxes, I don't know but that's what I'm trying to figure out.

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Re: How did you find a job you enjoy (that pays well)?
« Reply #38 on: June 08, 2017, 11:30:27 AM »
In my most positive voice.... suck it up buttercup. You have a valuable degree. Use it to get a job that pays well and the earnings will allow you to make future choices that are less motivated about money. It will only take you a short career in this field to be financially independent. At the current  point in your life you need to use that degree or the people like me that hire full time engineers will worry about loss of skills, lack of ambition, reasons why you haven't been hired etc.

Chem E is a lucrative career. I'm a Civil/Environmental engineer and 20 years ago I started out at almost 40k right out of school!

caracarn

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Re: How did you find a job you enjoy (that pays well)?
« Reply #39 on: June 08, 2017, 11:38:43 AM »
I'm unsure if the OP falls into the base camp, but I have seen a shift (and I've talked with dozens of other people about this topic over the last five years who see the same thing) in recent graduates expectations of what work is like and those of graduates twenty or more years ago, and it is not a slight change, it is massive.

It may certainly be hyperbole, but a conversation I had with someone who has hired hundreds of consultants over his career is a good summary.  His statements were, "First, there is entitlement that because I went to school I automatically get a job.  There is no consideration for I need to interview well, dress well, behave appropriately, be articulate, show actual interest in the job being offered versus the 'dream job' I am hopelessly searching for.  Then if they do land a job they want to get paid what the CEO gets in a couple months or the job sucks.  There is a massive shift in entitlement and expectation and no realism that working is normally just that; work.  Not fun, not heavily enjoyable, just work that you need to get enjoyment from for a job well done versus a job that is fun and let's you live in paradise and entitles you to the toys and money."  He was extremely frustrated with another set of interviews he had had where he described the parade of recent grads as "unable to even pretend they were excited to have the opportunity to be speaking with me and to have a shot at the job.  They instead were very bored, acting as if the fact that I would offer them a job was a foregone conclusion and focusing most of their questions about how fast the could advance and get to what they felt was 'fun' work and get out of the trenches doing the grunt work.  They did not even bother to understand why the work I needed done was important or what it even was."

I see a lot of the same thing.  It's very disappointing as an employer.  Getting someone who has genuine interest and gratitude about the opportunity to work is so rare at this point that it absolutely catches my attention when I see it.  What used to be the norm twenty years ago, is now the exception, unless I'm interviewing someone who would have been interviewing 20-30 years ago.

I just see so many people chasing this belief that the "only way" to get ahead is to jump around forever chasing the holy grail when good old fashioned effort and sticktuitiveness for the mundane tasks of ANY job are what set someone apart and make them have a successful and lucrative career with few employers.

FamilyGuy

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Re: How did you find a job you enjoy (that pays well)?
« Reply #40 on: June 08, 2017, 11:39:21 AM »
I started off with $65k as a fresher in IT industry and as a full-time employee.
Moved to work as a contractor for a couple of companies managing around $140k at the last one.
After marriage and kids, became full-time with a good employer known for stability. Pay is around $122.5k and there is a 15% bonus.
In my experience, moving to new companies for every 2 to 3 years at the same time improving your skill set and industry experience will greatly help in your pay.

Easye418

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Re: How did you find a job you enjoy (that pays well)?
« Reply #41 on: June 08, 2017, 12:05:03 PM »
Quit early, and quit often. Quitting has been the greatest tool in finding better employment. My salary and happiness progression since Spring of 2014:

1. $57.5k (stupid, miserable job - not doing even 10% of what the job description pretended I would do. This was my first "real" job, and I hung around too long because i was worried about "loyalty.")
2. $60k (happier, but too much travel)
3. $79k (Happiest)
4. $105k (Happy. Left other job for more money. Money sorta can buy happiness).


Kinda sorta agree with this. 

I agree with the idea that "company loyalty is dead" and there is no reason to stay with a company a really long time.  It's pointless and stupid.  If you stall out, you should move on to a company for a higher position.

However, quitting and finding a new job every so often takes it toll on you.  I have a similar path as you do, and it takes a solid 6 months to get a solid grip on each new opportunity.  Did I learn a TON that sets me apart from my competition?  Absolutely.  Was it always fun?  Hell no, stress levels through the roof.

From 2012-2017
1.  $48.5K + 6% 2 years (grunt work, learned a lot)
2.  $60K + 10% 1 year (Happy, traveled to much)
3.  $70K + 0% > Promoted to $85K + 10% 18 months (happier, made too little for what I did, company sucked)
4.  $112.5K + 15% current (happiest, no travel, work is nice, company performance is excellent)

Not to mention, family and location play huge part in this as well.  Now that I am expecting my first child, I am taking it slowly since I am at a great salary for my age and exp.  My company is doing EXCELLENT so bonus should be obtainable for a while.   The biggest thing is to understand the market for your position and get your base up as quickly as possible.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2017, 12:07:27 PM by Easye418 »

PoutineLover

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Re: How did you find a job you enjoy (that pays well)?
« Reply #42 on: June 08, 2017, 12:10:34 PM »
I'm really not trying to be an entitled millennial here, but I do think job expectations have shifted over time and it isn't necessarily a bad thing. I see my dad busting his ass working 14 hour days and barely getting any sleep because of his job, and I worry about his health and longevity because of it. I see my mom in a job that she likes but that doesn't pay that much and she can afford a basic life but that's it. I don't want to end up in either of those scenarios, and my goal isn't to be rich, but to have enough money to afford a comfortable life and have the freedom to pursue my interests. I'm not looking for an easy way out, or a perfect dream job necessarily, but I'm trying to find a career that pays enough for the next 10-15 years that I can choose how to spend my time after. However, I would rather work a bit longer and enjoy my life than hate everything and count the days until I'm out. I recognize that I'm lucky to have the education and opportunities that I've had, and I want to make the most of them. I don't mind doing grunt work, in fact I do a lot of it now, but I want to move to a company where I can advance and get promotions, because that probably won't happen here. I do get satisfaction from completing my work, but I don't think I necessarily have to sacrifice my quality of life for a job. I've gotten a lot of good ideas from this thread, and I thank everyone who is helping me figure out this next step.

caracarn

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Re: How did you find a job you enjoy (that pays well)?
« Reply #43 on: June 08, 2017, 01:30:08 PM »
I'm really not trying to be an entitled millennial here, but I do think job expectations have shifted over time and it isn't necessarily a bad thing. I see my dad busting his ass working 14 hour days and barely getting any sleep because of his job, and I worry about his health and longevity because of it. I see my mom in a job that she likes but that doesn't pay that much and she can afford a basic life but that's it. I don't want to end up in either of those scenarios, and my goal isn't to be rich, but to have enough money to afford a comfortable life and have the freedom to pursue my interests. I'm not looking for an easy way out, or a perfect dream job necessarily, but I'm trying to find a career that pays enough for the next 10-15 years that I can choose how to spend my time after. However, I would rather work a bit longer and enjoy my life than hate everything and count the days until I'm out. I recognize that I'm lucky to have the education and opportunities that I've had, and I want to make the most of them. I don't mind doing grunt work, in fact I do a lot of it now, but I want to move to a company where I can advance and get promotions, because that probably won't happen here. I do get satisfaction from completing my work, but I don't think I necessarily have to sacrifice my quality of life for a job. I've gotten a lot of good ideas from this thread, and I thank everyone who is helping me figure out this next step.
Sounds like you are looking at it in a productive way.  Wishing you well.

rugorak

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Re: How did you find a job you enjoy (that pays well)?
« Reply #44 on: June 08, 2017, 02:04:15 PM »
For myself I was in an OK job. Immediate coworkers were great! But management and above were horrid. And the company was top heavy. I made about 45-50k there. I looked for a number of years and ended up turning down a fair number of offers. Some jobs was just pay. Worse than I had. Others were bad environments. Like the place that told me that they liked to clean house every 2-3 years. One of many red flags. Eventually I found my current job. Not perfect but I make almost 30K more and have much better benefits (more time off, better insurance, better retirement, etc.). Networking helps immensely. I decided this place would be a good fit in part by talking to an alumni from my college who already worked at my current employer.

So short version is even if it takes a little while keep looking. And don't be afraid to say yes or no. Go with anything you think will be better (but back up the feeling with some evidence too).