Author Topic: Leaving project management for the unknown  (Read 2113 times)

Bearblastbeats

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Leaving project management for the unknown
« on: June 04, 2019, 04:54:18 PM »
I've been contemplating leaving my current position as a project manager for an estimator position at a company ten minutes away from my house. I currently work about 45 minutes away from home for a 73k annual salary.

I used to be so ambitious to get the next big raise and bonus and not caring how often I was away from home, but now we have a baby and a home and I find myself longing for more time with them.

I figured that with a ten minute commute I would be willing to accept a salary of about what I make now.

Has anyone else stepped down from the corporate ladder, taken a pay cut to be closer to family, and just not really caring about that big title and big promotions?

ysette9

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Re: Leaving project management for the unknown
« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2019, 05:46:06 PM »
It isn't quite the same situation, but I left my former company after a 14-year stint there after my second kid came along. At that company I had real career growth potential and had been doing really well: multiple development programs, mentors, job rotations, promotions, and the like. Not to toot my own horn too much, but I think I could have eventually ended up some sort of VP down the line if I had put my mind to it.

Last year I left and took what is basically a step down. Granted, I gained a lot by switching industries as my current company has a lot more $ to throw around, so financially I am still ahead, but I went from a career to a job. I'm totally okay with that because my thinking has evolved a lot to prioritize my family and my personal life over career. Hanging around these forums has played a big part in changing my thinking as well to not care as much about career advancement and find satisfaction elsewhere.

It sounds like your thinking is going along a similar path.

FireHiker

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Re: Leaving project management for the unknown
« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2019, 05:48:57 PM »
At that company I had real career growth potential and had been doing really well: multiple development programs, mentors, job rotations, promotions, and the like. Not to toot my own horn too much, but I think I could have eventually ended up some sort of VP down the line if I had put my mind to it.

This is where I am at my current company and I haven't decided if I want to "put my mind to it" or not yet. I do have the 2 mile/10 minute commute, though, and I would change jobs for that alone. Having a 10 minute commute is such a huge quality of life thing. I go home for lunch nearly every day, or run errands without the kids along. It is the best!!

ysette9

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Re: Leaving project management for the unknown
« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2019, 06:15:25 PM »
That commute sounds amazing! My commute isnít any shorter but that is because I traded my car for a bike. That is a quality of life improvement right there!

Bearblastbeats

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Re: Leaving project management for the unknown
« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2019, 06:40:38 PM »
It's been tough to come to terms with the idea, I've been in PM for about 6 years and recently left two really good jobs for both money and overall job satisfaction. I find it more so even now that I'm just not that happy working and I feel it as plain drudgery to go into the office every day. It doesnt help the fact the my boss is tough to deal with and we are a small company so I see him every day.

Idk if I actually want to leave PM and the career growth it leads to, but where I live, being a PM means making a commute of what I do now to even more. I interviewed 3 places last week and one had great growth potential and offered mid 80s but its over an hour on a good day.

Taking a lesser title and compensation for more home time with my.son is my new driving force and explaining that to people has two different effects. I hope that my pursuit in the long run doesn't hinder me in ten years if I want to continue PM, but we are comfortable where we are now and the salary I make. What else more would I need?

Linea_Norway

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Re: Leaving project management for the unknown
« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2019, 07:17:11 AM »
Yes, I have done that. I went down in salary about 10% and reduced my commute enormously and not being dependent on the commuter train. The new job also has half an hour shorter working day.

Since September, I am also working 80%, reducing salary with 20% and reducing retirement contributions with 50%. Still, it is important for my mental health. Our savings rate the year before that was at 75%, so we also didn't see the point of continuing to work full time, as we have almost enough stash to FIRE. The job change was done before I new about our FIRE status.

mistymoney

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Re: Leaving project management for the unknown
« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2019, 09:26:37 AM »
It isn't quite the same situation, but I left my former company after a 14-year stint there after my second kid came along. At that company I had real career growth potential and had been doing really well: multiple development programs, mentors, job rotations, promotions, and the like. Not to toot my own horn too much, but I think I could have eventually ended up some sort of VP down the line if I had put my mind to it.

Last year I left and took what is basically a step down. Granted, I gained a lot by switching industries as my current company has a lot more $ to throw around, so financially I am still ahead, but I went from a career to a job. I'm totally okay with that because my thinking has evolved a lot to prioritize my family and my personal life over career. Hanging around these forums has played a big part in changing my thinking as well to not care as much about career advancement and find satisfaction elsewhere.

It sounds like your thinking is going along a similar path.

This is an interesting way to look at it.

I was in a job for a while, totally not feeling it. I was kind of impressed and envious of the senior women contributors that I had contact with at some high-stakes meetings. These were different women, different groups, and my field was very different from theirs - but it affected me and got me to really think about my own role.

I became more vested in what I was doing, focused on becoming a real contributor to vision and direction within my company, and tried to increase my visibility at industry conferences. It worked! with high profile projects, pushing for a tiny pinky toehold in industry leadership events, I got a promotion and am very much having a career.

It really doesn't take that much more time during the week - maybe an extra 2-3 hours/week to focus on industry contributions, thinking about and executing at a higher level. And I am at a point where some of the routine tasks I usually get to delegate off and focus on the more creative, development side of things. I do love it!

Some industries - it does take much more than an extra 2-3 hours/week. But for me, definitely worth it!

And to be honest, when I was building up expertise, it was probably 10 or more extra hours a week - but not every week and variable to when I was interested in investing that time or perhaps to outside deadlines here and there.

ysette9

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Re: Leaving project management for the unknown
« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2019, 11:07:02 AM »
I agree with you that it doesnít necessarily take more time, but it does take more strategic thinking. You canít just coast through each work day.

At this point I sort of feel like I have checked the Career box and am ready to try something new in life. :)

formerlydivorcedmom

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Re: Leaving project management for the unknown
« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2019, 10:11:51 AM »
Would it be possible for you to negotiate several days a week of work-from-home as a project manager?

I work in IT.  One of our PMs works at home full time.  The other is at a physical office in a different state.  I'm a part-time PM and I work at home most of the time.  I know construction project managers and similar fields don't get the WFH perks because they need to be onsite to see that is going on.

I once quit a job for one that was a 20% pay cut because I was so miserable and wanted a big change.  Three years later I had the same salary and similar benefits...because I worked hard to prove myself in my new field.

Bearblastbeats

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Re: Leaving project management for the unknown
« Reply #9 on: June 06, 2019, 11:29:09 AM »
Would it be possible for you to negotiate several days a week of work-from-home as a project manager?

I work in IT.  One of our PMs works at home full time.  The other is at a physical office in a different state.  I'm a part-time PM and I work at home most of the time.  I know construction project managers and similar fields don't get the WFH perks because they need to be onsite to see that is going on.

I once quit a job for one that was a 20% pay cut because I was so miserable and wanted a big change.  Three years later I had the same salary and similar benefits...because I worked hard to prove myself in my new field.

That's one thing I'm hoping for if the interview tonight goes well. I'll take a small pay cut in hopes that their will be further advancement in the new company. Working from home with my current employer isn't an option, and the manager is a very difficult person to deal and has a high attrition rate. I'd be glad to leave.

Bearblastbeats

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Re: Leaving project management for the unknown
« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2019, 09:36:10 AM »
If I were to anticipate a pay cut from my current employer for the new potential employer closer to my residents, about how much would be acceptable considering cost of commuting will drastically go down and time spent at home will go up?

lhamo

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Re: Leaving project management for the unknown
« Reply #11 on: June 10, 2019, 10:16:29 AM »
Um, how are we supposed to know?   A lot depends on your budget -- what do you need to meet your essential expenses + a few extras that make life pleasant rather than a dreary slog....

For me, I ended up taking a 20%ish paycut when I left a Horrible Soul Sucking Job mid-career.  It was 100% worth it.  The role was pretty easy for me, and I excelled immediately.  The psychological benefits of that were huge.  But we were a 2-income family and already saving a ton, so the economic hit was small.  It probably would have felt a lot different if it meant we needed to cut back to uncomfortable levels on either saving or spending or both.

mm1970

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Re: Leaving project management for the unknown
« Reply #12 on: June 10, 2019, 12:08:10 PM »
At that company I had real career growth potential and had been doing really well: multiple development programs, mentors, job rotations, promotions, and the like. Not to toot my own horn too much, but I think I could have eventually ended up some sort of VP down the line if I had put my mind to it.

This is where I am at my current company and I haven't decided if I want to "put my mind to it" or not yet. I do have the 2 mile/10 minute commute, though, and I would change jobs for that alone. Having a 10 minute commute is such a huge quality of life thing. I go home for lunch nearly every day, or run errands without the kids along. It is the best!!

I feel all of  you on this.  I don't think I intentionally took a step down.  I had a rough few years with a terrible manager who completely derailed my growing career.  It was growing slowly, at a rate that I wanted (with an infant and a elementary aged kid).  Until...it wasn't growing at all.  Then, we had big layoffs.  Bad boss was gone but so were a lot of other people - suddenly all my projects were stripped away (we laid off all the junior employees, and everyone got pushed downwards).  It was a very dark time and was when I started interviewing.

At some point, I landed in a position with a coworker/boss that was a great fit for me.  It was a job, not a career.  I was learning lots of new things, owning projects, doing technical work.  But I knew, and he knew, that there was no money at this company.  So I kept at this enjoyable job for crappy pay and decided that - while I didn't CHOOSE it, I was okay with spending more time with my kids for the crappy pay.  My husband was going through the same desire to spend time with the kids.

So fast forward a few years, and now I basically have to manage all the programs.  "Such a great opportunity!"  Really?  I mean, pay is still super low, same company that is barely hanging on, but ok.  Thing is, on one hand, people thing I should be super thrilled with the extra responsibility for bad pay.  On the other hand SO MUCH of my job is dealing with difficult people.  They don't listen.  They don't care what I think.  If I wanted to work with children all day...

So for much of this summer, I gave myself a break.  I'm working from home in the mornings a lot this summer, so as to better handle kid drop off and pick up for summer camp.  Added bonus: less dealing face to face with people who annoy the crap out of me.

Bearblastbeats

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Re: Leaving project management for the unknown
« Reply #13 on: June 25, 2019, 05:51:41 PM »
Well after a few interviews from many different industries, I had one come back with an offer.

The offer was at 65k for an estimator position. They offer bonuses 3x a year. Could look at a 6 month review for more  $$$. Told them I'll review and they'll consider a counter.

Pros for offer:
10-15 minute commute. Currently 45-60 minutes.
Not dealing with current boss.
Flexibility with schedule.

Cons for offer:
Essentially a step below current PM position.
Offer is 8k less than I make now.


I am considering giving them a counter of 70k, but I dont want to sell myself out of a job. A lot of jobs in my area are slim and pay a lot less, I was offered a different position last week at about 40k a year because they weren't expecting someone my my caliber. (Their words)


We've revisited our budget numerous times but can't take an 8k cut because I'm the primary breadwinner of the house.

lhamo

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Re: Leaving project management for the unknown
« Reply #14 on: June 25, 2019, 07:02:54 PM »
I think you are underestimating both the life quality and financial benefits of:

1)  Getting away from a horrible boss -- this is likely taking a huge toll on both your mental and physical health

2)  Reducing your ridiculous commute -- take a serious look at how much longer your car will last with a more reasonable drive and

3)  Scheduling flexibility.  Am I remembering right that you have a young baby at home?  Being able to pop home to help out in a crisis, or even just see your wife and kid at lunch, is a HUGE step up in quality of life and will likely reduce spending in other areas.

Definitely ask for as much as you can, but if it were me I would find a way to make the budget work in order to improve quality of life drastically.  Posting a case study with your budget details might help us help you find a way to make this work.

Linea_Norway

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Re: Leaving project management for the unknown
« Reply #15 on: June 26, 2019, 12:53:02 AM »
I think you are underestimating both the life quality and financial benefits of:

1)  Getting away from a horrible boss -- this is likely taking a huge toll on both your mental and physical health

2)  Reducing your ridiculous commute -- take a serious look at how much longer your car will last with a more reasonable drive and

3)  Scheduling flexibility.  Am I remembering right that you have a young baby at home?  Being able to pop home to help out in a crisis, or even just see your wife and kid at lunch, is a HUGE step up in quality of life and will likely reduce spending in other areas.

Definitely ask for as much as you can, but if it were me I would find a way to make the budget work in order to improve quality of life drastically.  Posting a case study with your budget details might help us help you find a way to make this work.

Agree.

This shorter commute will save you a lot of cost. Maybe you can even cycle to work? And it will give you back 1,5 hour of private time per day. That is huge. It is one of the things I appreciate most in my current job.

MrThatsDifferent

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Re: Leaving project management for the unknown
« Reply #16 on: June 26, 2019, 06:33:33 AM »
Well after a few interviews from many different industries, I had one come back with an offer.

The offer was at 65k for an estimator position. They offer bonuses 3x a year. Could look at a 6 month review for more  $$$. Told them I'll review and they'll consider a counter.

Pros for offer:
10-15 minute commute. Currently 45-60 minutes.
Not dealing with current boss.
Flexibility with schedule.

Cons for offer:
Essentially a step below current PM position.
Offer is 8k less than I make now.


I am considering giving them a counter of 70k, but I dont want to sell myself out of a job. A lot of jobs in my area are slim and pay a lot less, I was offered a different position last week at about 40k a year because they weren't expecting someone my my caliber. (Their words)


We've revisited our budget numerous times but can't take an 8k cut because I'm the primary breadwinner of the house.

Iím not great at this but could you calculate the taxes of the 2 jobs, and what youíd save on expenses (driving). I donít think the 2 jobs are that far apart financially. Iíd definitely stick with the closer jobs, long commutes are the worst. Iíd also aim for $70k and see if they match or come just under. Iíd probably be upfront and say, Iím currently on $73, I donít need that matched but would like to come as close as possible, either way, this company is where I want to be. Show them your enthusiasm and let the chips fall where they may.

Bearblastbeats

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Re: Leaving project management for the unknown
« Reply #17 on: June 26, 2019, 08:01:22 AM »
They also mentioned that insurance is 65% by employee and 35% by the company.  My current position is 35% employee and 65% company.

With that information, I really cant take anything less than 70k from them since insurance will be more than I pay now.

lhamo

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Re: Leaving project management for the unknown
« Reply #18 on: June 26, 2019, 12:39:36 PM »
OK, so back in November you posted these numbers:

We pulled the trigger and purchased our first home. I went with a FHA loan of 3.5% down on a 257k house and we will be closing and moving in by end of December.

I take home $2100 biweekly and my GF brings home ~$600 biweekly. (depending on hours)

Outside of student loans ($48/m) I have no other debt than this current house.

My GF pays me about $300 every two weeks towards bills and in which I cover the following below:

Mortgage/Taxes/Ins.: $2000
Cell + Ins.: $115
Electric: $55
Gas: $50
Auto Ins.: $75
Groceries: $150
Netflix + Prime: $22
Student Loan: $48
Pet Food/Supplies: $75
Fuel: $200 - $300 (dependent on travel for work)


You say you are the breadwinner, so you don't have major childcare costs.  Why can you not make it work financially on a 70k salary, especially with a greatly reduced commute that will likely save you at least 1-2k/year?  If you figure your fuel expenses drop to $100/month with the shorter commute and you add $200/month in kid-related expenses, your total budget is still right around $35k/year. 

You have job hopped a LOT.  Time to find something that works for you and your young family. Salary is just one piece of the puzzle and chasing after higher numbers has bit you in the butt more than once.

Bearblastbeats

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Re: Leaving project management for the unknown
« Reply #19 on: June 26, 2019, 12:44:48 PM »
I could on a 70k salary. Not on a 65k salary. GF only makes 100 a week now working nights.

Was going to counter at 70k.

caracarn

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Re: Leaving project management for the unknown
« Reply #20 on: June 26, 2019, 01:10:23 PM »
So I just did what you are contemplating, at the job level at least.

I was a VP of IT and had been doing that for over a decade at a few companies.  I got sick of the office politics, the unrealistic demands and the other soul sucking treatment received at the hands of senior management in trade for a high paycheck.  I took a 40% pay cut and am now a Sr. PM and glad I made the move.

Now the differences in your situation are that I am still at a salary much higher than where you are currently at ($115K), but is was a big step down in income, but moving from a career to a job was something I had thought about a lot.  My thought process was as I near 50 I know what I can knock out of the park, what I like doing, what I am not good at, and what I do not like doing.  Taking a job as a PM puts me almost 100% in the first two brackets where my older jobs would likely be 20/5/5/70, so as you can see I was not in good places.  The pay I make now will still get us to FIRE at about the same pace as the budget cuts we did drove us much closer to a mustachian existence, cutting out luxuries we were splurging on like dining out etc.  So the decision for us was really were we comfortable with less cushion in income in the event things go wrong.  We also have the forward looking situation of knowing our spending will drop more as the kids go out on their own as we will have drops in almost every category, especially groceries, clothing, cell phones, college savings and the like.  We believe we can get our spend down another 35% or so once it is just my wife and I, and once we get the mortgage gone that would be almost another 20%, so we are looking at more than a 50% drop in our expense rate as we retire.

Based on that evaluation, I made the shift.  My new company loves me, I go home without worrying about work, I do not travel anymore (was not very heavy in my last job but had done up to 50% at times).  I have been able to focus on other pursuits in my personal life that I enjoy but did not have time or energy for, and also see that increasing over time.   

Bearblastbeats

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Re: Leaving project management for the unknown
« Reply #21 on: June 27, 2019, 05:05:04 AM »
They countered at $67.5k annually.

This is what they have for their budget as this is a new position for them.

I feel like it's not terrible but my GF thinks we can't do less than 70k.

Neustache

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Re: Leaving project management for the unknown
« Reply #22 on: June 27, 2019, 06:03:31 AM »
I'm a little confused, though.  You only make 73K right now, and your GF thinks you can't possibly earn less than 70K.  Are you spending everything you make now, or are you saving any of it?  If you are saving it, and you should be, are you saving at least 6K a year?  I mean, this is a forum where saving is a priority, but quality of life is important, too.  Maybe a detailed budget is in order!

Bearblastbeats

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Re: Leaving project management for the unknown
« Reply #23 on: June 27, 2019, 06:27:00 AM »
I'm a little confused, though.  You only make 73K right now, and your GF thinks you can't possibly earn less than 70K.  Are you spending everything you make now, or are you saving any of it?  If you are saving it, and you should be, are you saving at least 6K a year?  I mean, this is a forum where saving is a priority, but quality of life is important, too.  Maybe a detailed budget is in order!



Well, currently this is our rundown:

$2,057 (Mortgage, taxes, & insurance)
$125-150 (Electric)
$200-300 (fuel to work or job sites budgeted)
$150 (pet food and medicine)
$120 (mobile phone and insurance)
$75 (auto insurance, liability only)
$400 (baby supplies, food & diapers)
$107 (quarterly water bill)
$132 (personal loan)

So very loosely, $3491 a month in expenses.

Other things I paid this month:
$300 (hospital bill)
$179 (Credit card payments)
$500 (to old apartment complex for lease buyout (I owe one more payment of $489 and then I'm done))
$189 (fast food, lunch at work, dinging out. This has always been an issue)
$317 (home supplies and other home improvement things like paint)

$1485 in additional expenses that will eventually go away once we start scrimping and knocking out debt.


Her situation is worse:
She takes home roughly 200-300 every two weeks working 5-9 at best buy when they give her hours.
She has a 250 car payment and 130 insurance bill on it alone. She owe more than its worth, so we have been considering to get her on my car insurance which brings it to 100 a month. Her car, I will probably take the payment over so she can stop stressing about it. It's really a POS and will not pass inspection again this year. Last year I put $3500 into it to keep it on the road. I'd rather just unload it if we could.


I figure this, I've been paying my old apartment complex 500 a month since we moved for breaking the lease. My last payment is next month and I'll have that back. If I take a pay cut its not much different than our situation now. Worse case, I do more flooring jobs or work pt somewhere , I just need to get out of this situation.

I try to explain this to my GF. Current job: 73000 x .75 = 54750 after taxes and insurance. Divided by 52 is 1052 a week take home, I took home 1030 ea week here or 2060 every two weeks.

New job: 67500 x .75 = 50625 after taxes and insurance.  Divided by 52 is 973.55 a week take home. 1030 - 975 = 55 dollars a week difference. Which is the cost of gas alone.

lhamo

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Re: Leaving project management for the unknown
« Reply #24 on: June 27, 2019, 08:22:25 AM »
Does she understand that if you lose your current job (sounds ugly) your income will go to near $0, and that you have already learned that this is an excellent wage for something closer to home/with more flexibility?

Is there some reason you guys aren't getting married?  With her low income, you are missing out on some serious tax benefits -- she's not even making enough to get the full personal deduction of 12k.  Filing MFJ + the child/family tax credits would seriously reduce your tax bill.  You have  a house and a kid already, why not spend a couple of hours at the courthouse?  If she wants a big wedding you can save for that and make it more public later.

Bearblastbeats

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Re: Leaving project management for the unknown
« Reply #25 on: June 27, 2019, 08:31:29 AM »
Does she understand that if you lose your current job (sounds ugly) your income will go to near $0, and that you have already learned that this is an excellent wage for something closer to home/with more flexibility?

Is there some reason you guys aren't getting married?  With her low income, you are missing out on some serious tax benefits -- she's not even making enough to get the full personal deduction of 12k.  Filing MFJ + the child/family tax credits would seriously reduce your tax bill.  You have  a house and a kid already, why not spend a couple of hours at the courthouse?  If she wants a big wedding you can save for that and make it more public later.

So, the only thing I worry about that is the government is going to start garnishing her wages soon because she neglected her student loans so long. If we got married, wouldn't that effect me as well?

caracarn

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Re: Leaving project management for the unknown
« Reply #26 on: June 27, 2019, 03:03:28 PM »
I believe your income would then become part of the pool of funds.  This is a tough one. It's effecting you already, in that you are not making moves that might make sense to keep things split yet having some of the financial burdens anyway.  Lots for you to think about if you help her pay them off over time and then can avoid garnishment.  Other issue would seem to be if she is not paying now then your income is artificially inflated because you are not servicing a debt, so if you are squeaking by now, you could certainly be underwater then.

ChpBstrd

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Re: Leaving project management for the unknown
« Reply #27 on: June 27, 2019, 03:41:56 PM »
Assuming you'll work the same number of hours at either job, and assuming you are saving 40 minutes on the commute each way, you will spend (40*2)*5=400 fewer minutes per week, or 6.7 fewer hours per week. Factoring in vacation and holidays, this is about (6.7*50) = 333.3 hours per year saved.

Assuming a 5 day, 40 hour workweek, your hourly pay rate including commute time would be:

Current Job:
     Annual Pay: 80k
     Annual Hours: (40 hours * 52 weeks)+((52.5 minute commute * 2 ways * 5 days * 50 weeks)/60) = 2080 hours working + 437.5 hours commuting = 2517.5 hours
     Pay Per Hour: 80,000/2517.5 = $31.78

Prospective Job:
     Annual Pay: $67.5k
     Annual Hours: 2080 hours working + ((12.5 minute commute * 2 ways * 5 days * 50 weeks)/60)= 2184 hours.
     Pay Per Hour: 67,500/2184 = $30.90
     Note: Had your received your 70k counteroffer, you would be getting a raise in hourly terms.

So the pre-tax effect on your hourly rate of pay, including commute, is $-0.87/hour.

But wait, there's more! I haven't factored in the lower cost of vehicle depreciation, maintenance, fuel, and added insurance costs. Plug your estimates into the math above if desired, and I bet it justifies leaving a bad boss. You'll be close to breakeven on an hourly basis. The question is whether your overall budget could handle being a lot smaller. Good luck!

Bearblastbeats

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Re: Leaving project management for the unknown
« Reply #28 on: June 28, 2019, 05:32:00 AM »
Assuming you'll work the same number of hours at either job, and assuming you are saving 40 minutes on the commute each way, you will spend (40*2)*5=400 fewer minutes per week, or 6.7 fewer hours per week. Factoring in vacation and holidays, this is about (6.7*50) = 333.3 hours per year saved.

Assuming a 5 day, 40 hour workweek, your hourly pay rate including commute time would be:

Current Job:
     Annual Pay: 80k
     Annual Hours: (40 hours * 52 weeks)+((52.5 minute commute * 2 ways * 5 days * 50 weeks)/60) = 2080 hours working + 437.5 hours commuting = 2517.5 hours
     Pay Per Hour: 80,000/2517.5 = $31.78

Prospective Job:
     Annual Pay: $67.5k
     Annual Hours: 2080 hours working + ((12.5 minute commute * 2 ways * 5 days * 50 weeks)/60)= 2184 hours.
     Pay Per Hour: 67,500/2184 = $30.90
     Note: Had your received your 70k counteroffer, you would be getting a raise in hourly terms.

So the pre-tax effect on your hourly rate of pay, including commute, is $-0.87/hour.

But wait, there's more! I haven't factored in the lower cost of vehicle depreciation, maintenance, fuel, and added insurance costs. Plug your estimates into the math above if desired, and I bet it justifies leaving a bad boss. You'll be close to breakeven on an hourly basis. The question is whether your overall budget could handle being a lot smaller. Good luck!

This is great! Thank you for breaking it out like this. I actually make 73k now, not 80, so the math shows my hourly rate to be $29. Essentially I'm breaking even.

Bearblastbeats

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Re: Leaving project management for the unknown
« Reply #29 on: June 28, 2019, 06:03:36 AM »
Assuming you'll work the same number of hours at either job, and assuming you are saving 40 minutes on the commute each way, you will spend (40*2)*5=400 fewer minutes per week, or 6.7 fewer hours per week. Factoring in vacation and holidays, this is about (6.7*50) = 333.3 hours per year saved.

Assuming a 5 day, 40 hour workweek, your hourly pay rate including commute time would be:

Current Job:
     Annual Pay: 80k
     Annual Hours: (40 hours * 52 weeks)+((52.5 minute commute * 2 ways * 5 days * 50 weeks)/60) = 2080 hours working + 437.5 hours commuting = 2517.5 hours
     Pay Per Hour: 80,000/2517.5 = $31.78

Prospective Job:
     Annual Pay: $67.5k
     Annual Hours: 2080 hours working + ((12.5 minute commute * 2 ways * 5 days * 50 weeks)/60)= 2184 hours.
     Pay Per Hour: 67,500/2184 = $30.90
     Note: Had your received your 70k counteroffer, you would be getting a raise in hourly terms.

So the pre-tax effect on your hourly rate of pay, including commute, is $-0.87/hour.

But wait, there's more! I haven't factored in the lower cost of vehicle depreciation, maintenance, fuel, and added insurance costs. Plug your estimates into the math above if desired, and I bet it justifies leaving a bad boss. You'll be close to breakeven on an hourly basis. The question is whether your overall budget could handle being a lot smaller. Good luck!

This is great! Thank you for breaking it out like this. I actually make 73k now, not 80, so the math shows my hourly rate to be $29. Essentially I'm breaking even.


I took your equation and adjusted it to actuals.


Current Job:
     Annual Pay: 73k
     Annual Hours: (40 hours * 52 weeks)+((41.5 minute commute * 2 ways * 5 days * 50 weeks)/60) = 2080 hours working + 345.83 hours commuting = 2425.8 hours
     Pay Per Hour: 73,000/2425.8 = $30.09

Prospective Job:
     Annual Pay: $67.5k
     Annual Hours: 2080 hours working + ((11.6 minute commute * 2 ways * 5 days * 50 weeks)/60)= 2176.6 hours.
     Pay Per Hour: 67,500/2176.6 = $31.01
   
So the pre-tax effect on my hourly rate of pay, including commute, is +$0.92/hour.

Neustache

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Re: Leaving project management for the unknown
« Reply #30 on: June 28, 2019, 07:59:24 AM »
The extra time and energy you might have (once you get used to the new job) could potentially free you up for some side gigs.  Really, you all need to cut expenses (I don't see a food line item on your original budget) and really track what you spend.  Your housing costs seem out of line with your income, but maybe you are in a HCOL area?

Linea_Norway

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Re: Leaving project management for the unknown
« Reply #31 on: June 28, 2019, 09:11:56 AM »
The extra time and energy you might have (once you get used to the new job) could potentially free you up for some side gigs.  Really, you all need to cut expenses (I don't see a food line item on your original budget) and really track what you spend.  Your housing costs seem out of line with your income, but maybe you are in a HCOL area?

Or the extra time could be spent on DIY things that you might otherwise oursource, like eating out, cleaning, painting, etc.

lhamo

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Re: Leaving project management for the unknown
« Reply #32 on: June 28, 2019, 12:08:12 PM »
If you were able to get home earlier/do a bit of WFH with a more flexible schedule, would that enable your SO to take on more shifts at work?  While she doesn't earn a lot, upping her income to $1k/month would maximize her earning (no federal income tax on 12k for a single earner) + EIC and child tax credits and more than make up for the slightly lower salary.

Bearblastbeats

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Re: Leaving project management for the unknown
« Reply #33 on: June 28, 2019, 01:38:04 PM »
I accepted the job this morning. Everything seems to make sense and the less commute in itself is worth it to me, not to mention getting away from my current boss.

I'll give him my notice on Monday and try to remain civil until my departure.

Edit: was browsing Craigslist and noticed he put my job up for help wanted. Should I still give notice, or wait it out to be replaced. If I give notice should I let him know I know?

We clearly dislike each other.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2019, 07:14:41 PM by Bearblastbeats »

Linea_Norway

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Re: Leaving project management for the unknown
« Reply #34 on: June 29, 2019, 02:33:09 AM »
Congrats on the new job. Just give a formal 2 weeknotice and open up for that you could quit earlier if the company wants to, if you want to.
You can ignore the graig's list thing. It is your boss' problem to replace you, not your business. Do you have some vacation left that you could take up in this period?

Bearblastbeats

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Re: Leaving project management for the unknown
« Reply #35 on: June 29, 2019, 05:54:16 AM »
Congrats on the new job. Just give a formal 2 weeknotice and open up for that you could quit earlier if the company wants to, if you want to.
You can ignore the graig's list thing. It is your boss' problem to replace you, not your business. Do you have some vacation left that you could take up in this period?

I have three days of PTO. I might as well use it.

I was thinking, since hes looking to replace me, and considering he knows I have a family to support, I should not give him a notice and instead on the final Friday just tell him it's my last day and let him deal with that.


lhamo

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Re: Leaving project management for the unknown
« Reply #36 on: June 29, 2019, 10:12:43 AM »
No no no no no.  Do not walk out without giving notice.  That is unprofessional, unnecessary and may come back to haunt you.

Maybe he is going to fire you.  If that would allow you to collect unemployment, you might want to open up your conversation on Monday with something more vague like "This doesn't seem to be working for either of us" and see how he follows up.  But definitely have the conversation.

Glad you have something lined up to move to...

Bearblastbeats

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Re: Leaving project management for the unknown
« Reply #37 on: June 29, 2019, 10:32:07 AM »
No no no no no.  Do not walk out without giving notice.  That is unprofessional, unnecessary and may come back to haunt you.

Maybe he is going to fire you.  If that would allow you to collect unemployment, you might want to open up your conversation on Monday with something more vague like "This doesn't seem to be working for either of us" and see how he follows up.  But definitely have the conversation.

Glad you have something lined up to move to...

I'm not that concerned with how my departure is with him or collecting unemployment. I start my new job on the 15th. I don't think he deserves the notice, but I do believe in karma.

I'm

MrThatsDifferent

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Re: Leaving project management for the unknown
« Reply #38 on: June 29, 2019, 02:08:17 PM »
Always tick your boxes, donít worry if someone else does the right thing. You do the right thing. 99% of the time if thereís that much animosity, you give notice and they make your next day your last day and pay you out those 2 weeks cause they think youíll damage or steal things. Copy all your emails, delete everything especially browser history and personal emails. Have everything prepared if they tell you, we donít need you back. Congrats on the new job.

Bearblastbeats

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Re: Leaving project management for the unknown
« Reply #39 on: June 30, 2019, 03:43:46 PM »
Always tick your boxes, donít worry if someone else does the right thing. You do the right thing. 99% of the time if thereís that much animosity, you give notice and they make your next day your last day and pay you out those 2 weeks cause they think youíll damage or steal things. Copy all your emails, delete everything especially browser history and personal emails. Have everything prepared if they tell you, we donít need you back. Congrats on the new job.

Thanks. I'm hoping he does let me go sooner than my two weeks, but if he doesn't and I give him my two weeks tomorrow, can I still take those 3 days of PTO?

Bearblastbeats

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Re: Leaving project management for the unknown
« Reply #40 on: July 01, 2019, 10:16:48 AM »
Gave him my notice. He seemed shocked. I asked if he wanted me to post my position on indeed and if he wanted me to copy the one from CL. He defended the CL add saying we have so much volume we needed another designer position filled.I said it's fine, I found a job in Manchester. No worries I'll finish my two weeks here with no problems

ChpBstrd

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Re: Leaving project management for the unknown
« Reply #41 on: July 01, 2019, 10:51:16 AM »
Sounds like a successful resolution and a step towards a more balanced life. Youíll now want to focus on adapting your budget to the lower income.