Author Topic: Lay off highly probable!  (Read 15677 times)

thriftyc

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Lay off highly probable!
« on: April 29, 2015, 08:09:54 PM »
Hi all,

Throughout my life I have navigated life's challenges with vigor! You can read about it here:
http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/share-your-badassity/hit-1-million-net-worth/

However, as I have recently learned,it appears that I am going to arrive at another challenge. My department at work is shrinking from 50 to 8 of us. Not sure if I am on the chopping block or not but the odds are obviously against me. Could happen anytime within the next couple of weeks.

Not sure what I should do, I am close to FI, but not there yet. I admit, I am a bit stressed about the whole thing as I am not ready to retire yet..

Some advice would be appreciated.

« Last Edit: April 29, 2015, 09:27:44 PM by thriftycanadian »

Hey It's Me

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Re: Lay off highly probable!
« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2015, 08:12:42 PM »
Really the only advice here is to start applying for jobs - yesterday. Even if you make if through this round of layoffs, you'll likely be in a nasty spot following the layoffs: your coworkers (and likely you) will be stressed because of lack of job security; management will hold the "times are tough" card over you to get you to do extra work; you probably will have to put in many extra hours to cover the work everyone else was doing. Sinking ships are no fun, even if you manage not to drown. Start looking for a new job.

ender

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Re: Lay off highly probable!
« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2015, 08:53:27 PM »
You also don't want to be in a later round of layoffs when all the jobs are snatched up by your colleagues.

So if you have a round of 5 laid off, odds are those five will get jobs and then the next five won't, etc.

lostamonkey

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Re: Lay off highly probable!
« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2015, 09:21:33 PM »
Start applying for new jobs now, not after you lose your current job.

I wouldn't be too concerned. You have a good Stache and you will be alright without active income for a while. Remember to apply for EI benefits as soon as you get laid off. There is no shame in collecting unemployment, you have probably paid into the program for decades.

okits

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Re: Lay off highly probable!
« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2015, 01:50:34 PM »
Here's another approach: go to your manager and request to be on the layoff list.

Why? 

You will get severance. Free money if you don't run through all of it before finding something else. 

Staying after they cut 84% of your department will be horrid, as moe_rants said.  You get first crack at relevant jobs, not after your previously laid off colleagues have saturated the market for those types of positions.

Being on a sinking ship is unpleasant. From your story you sound incredibly motivated, resilient, and able.  You could find something new, or go part time/contract to enjoy some of the fruits of your labour now.  Don't mourn the future you had in mind (continuing in this job in the same way you have been, until 45/ER), because no matter what you decide that future is never going to happen because of this huge downsize.

You are in an excellent position, and I admire your accomplishments getting to this point. Go out there and get the kind of ridiculously advantageous outcome only available to those who are FI or swimming in FU money or good options.

Axecleaver

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Re: Lay off highly probable!
« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2015, 01:51:43 PM »
If you want to stay with the company, start interviewing in other departments ASAP. Don't wait, because others will have the same idea. Also start interviewing outside the company right away. Depends where you live, but 42 people hitting the streets at once could be a lot in your specialty. Your new job, starting right now, is finding a new job.

It's possible there will be a buy-out package for people who want to volunteer. You might want to talk to your manager about opting in to the layoff list. Sometimes they want volunteers. I was in a layoff once during the .com meltdown, where we went from 150 people to 10 in two stages. I was in the first wave and got six months severance, a pretty sweet deal for a job I had for less than two years. The second-wave guys got a worse deal. More typically, it's one week per year of service and you promise not to sue them (which is still a good trade). So definitely interview for other jobs, but wait for the layoff to see what you can get.

Finally, relax, and tackle this problem knowing that you have enough in the bank for years and years of job search, should it come to that. You don't have to take the first job offer, you can afford to take the job you want. Maybe this is a good time to explore ER/part time activities?

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Re: Lay off highly probable!
« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2015, 01:57:58 PM »
I guess I don't understand what the problem is. You are in your early forties and are so close to early retirement. What's the big deal if you cross the finish line a few months or even a couple of years later then you anticipated. Go out and get another job. You have so much cushion that this pending mass layoff shouldn't bother you.

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Re: Lay off highly probable!
« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2015, 02:10:18 PM »
You may be a little shy of full ER but another option may be to use the opportunity to go ahead and downshift to part time work to make up what appears to be a very small gap in stache/expense coverage and coast into ER.  Shoot, if they give you some notice and severance that will just close the gap that much more.  Does your wife work?  If not, can she find work?  Even if you have kids at home, if you are both working part time, you probably could split child care duties up somehow. 

We have had small intermittant layoffs for the past several years, and around a year ago another cycle came around.  I was FI, but a little short of my ER goal.  The idea of getting a new job just to work 18-24 months until ER was not very attractive, so I went ahead and decided that I would just work part-time if I was laid off.  I survived so it wasn't an issue, so I am just toughing out my last few months on the "sinking ship" others have mentioned.   

JLee

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Re: Lay off highly probable!
« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2015, 03:19:46 PM »
From your other thread,  you have $680k invested and $20k cash. 4% SWR puts you at $28k/yr and you currently have $30k expenses. If you were no longer working, how would that change your minimum expenses? You're really close to FI.

Retire-Canada

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Re: Lay off highly probable!
« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2015, 03:46:06 PM »
From your other thread,  you have $680k invested and $20k cash. 4% SWR puts you at $28k/yr and you currently have $30k expenses. If you were no longer working, how would that change your minimum expenses? You're really close to FI.

^^^ This :)

You have a shit load of fuck you money. It doesn't matter what happens you are fine and you can thank your past-self for that.

If it was me I'd:

1. poke around and see if there was a good severance package being offered
2. calculate how many months of work that package was worth
3. If it was enough to get you FI comfortably volunteer to quit
4. If not just keep working, but don't give a rat's ass if they let me go tomorrow or in 2 years
5. celebrate each addition to my investments with each pay cheque
6. Look for some extra savings in my budget, but don't let it keep me up at night
7. Think about some part-time work options I wouldn't mind doing
8. If I get to FI in the current job I rock and life is good
9. If I get laid of before FI dump any severance into my investments and remember I rock and life is good!
10. Score a part-time job I don't hate and give myself some time to ponder my next move

Don't stress out.
Don't make a move out of fear.
You are nearly at FI.
Be happy!

-- Vik
« Last Edit: April 30, 2015, 03:47:50 PM by Vikb »

ender

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Re: Lay off highly probable!
« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2015, 05:01:01 PM »
From your other thread,  you have $680k invested and $20k cash. 4% SWR puts you at $28k/yr and you currently have $30k expenses. If you were no longer working, how would that change your minimum expenses? You're really close to FI.

Especially if they can get a severance ;)

Jeremy E.

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Re: Lay off highly probable!
« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2015, 06:30:24 PM »
If you get laid off, you will have a lot of extra time on your hands.  With all of that extra time, is there any way you could figure out how to save a little bit more money each month? Maybe reduce your monthly expenses, things that you previously bought (including products and services) you may now have time to make or do yourself? For instance for car and house maintenance, you can watch youtube videos or read books to learn how to fix things yourself and save some money. Or maybe if you and your family would be okay with it, you could move to a lower cost of living area and rent out your house? You also spoke about some fun part time income in your other post, this would probably make up the gap as well. With all of the extra time you will have, I'm sure you will find a way to make it work, good luck!

thriftyc

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Re: Lay off highly probable!
« Reply #12 on: May 01, 2015, 06:19:36 AM »
Thanks for the great advice everyone! I will let you know how things end up!


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Re: Lay off highly probable!
« Reply #13 on: May 01, 2015, 12:21:25 PM »
I read your other thread, congratulations on your badassity! Based on what I'm reading from a financial perspective you are definitely ready to be laid-off, take a severance, and start working part-time to supplement your income.

Your investments will easily generate $25,000/yr for life. Add a part-time job or short-term contract work and it shouldn't be hard to earn another $20,000/yr or more. At this rate you will still be saving $15,000/yr and be paying very little tax to boot. Take some time to think and do some math, I think you will be pleasantly surprised.

Good luck in any event!

thriftyc

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Re: Lay off highly probable!
« Reply #14 on: June 03, 2015, 02:53:54 AM »
Hi all,

Well, it happened. Got called into a meeting today and within that meeting 5 of us got "picked" to go to another room with HR. I was one of them. So I am done. Never in my 20 years of working have I ever been laid off/fired. I was at this company for 3 years. They offered me 10 weeks severance, plus some accrued vacation and profit sharing pay. So it works out to about 3 to 3.5 months pay total. I have 10 business days to decide and sign.

I was recruited from my last company of 15 years to this one. Is it worthwhile to go after them for more severance?

To be honest, I am feeling like crap about the whole thing and under a bit of shock, but am grateful we have a stache.
If you read my other thread, you will notice that I had a rough childhood filled with instability - so I am concerned this ordeal will bubble up some past childhood issues. Already feeling freaked out a bit - whether rational or not. Here I am, can't sleep at 3 am typing this up.




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Re: Lay off highly probable!
« Reply #15 on: June 03, 2015, 05:15:19 AM »
thrifty - sorry to hear that you got laid off. I don't have any specific recommendations on the financial side - although PP suggest that you are really close to FIRE. If so, maybe you can adjust your budget and enjoy an even earlier retirement?

Nevertheless, it sucks to be 'let go' for whatever reason - and being laid off is not be fired. It sounds like the economic reality for the company is that they have to downsize. If they recruited you and kept you all these years, you must have done good work for them.

If you aren't ready to FIRE, then this is the opportunity to look for other work that will be fulfilling and meaningful for you. And you have enough money banked that you can pick something you really want to do, rather than having to take something to pay bills.

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Re: Lay off highly probable!
« Reply #16 on: June 03, 2015, 05:36:08 AM »
Sorry to hear it, thrifty, but I'll +1 to "laid off isn't fired." Fired is sometimes the employee's fault; laid off is the company's fault, or the fault of the larger economy. Keeping that in mind may help with the unavoidable emotional issues.


On the financial side, relax. Figure out what you want to do before you jump, because you have the time to do that.


On the severance, are they asking you to sign a waiver? That might give you some negotiating room, but hopefully others in the private sector will have advice for you on that - severance is a foreign concept where I am.

JLee

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Re: Lay off highly probable!
« Reply #17 on: June 03, 2015, 08:12:39 AM »
Hi all,

Well, it happened. Got called into a meeting today and within that meeting 5 of us got "picked" to go to another room with HR. I was one of them. So I am done. Never in my 20 years of working have I ever been laid off/fired. I was at this company for 3 years. They offered me 10 weeks severance, plus some accrued vacation and profit sharing pay. So it works out to about 3 to 3.5 months pay total. I have 10 business days to decide and sign.

I was recruited from my last company of 15 years to this one. Is it worthwhile to go after them for more severance?

To be honest, I am feeling like crap about the whole thing and under a bit of shock, but am grateful we have a stache.
If you read my other thread, you will notice that I had a rough childhood filled with instability - so I am concerned this ordeal will bubble up some past childhood issues. Already feeling freaked out a bit - whether rational or not. Here I am, can't sleep at 3 am typing this up.

I got laid off (budget cuts) from my first police department three weeks out of the academy. No severance, just gone. It sucks, but you'll get over it. :)

Remember, getting laid off is much different than getting fired.

affordablehousing

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Re: Lay off highly probable!
« Reply #18 on: June 03, 2015, 09:44:10 AM »
TC, I was in the same position a year ago and I really feel your pain. It's a startling, jolting situation where everything goes upside down for a while. I ended up spending a week wallowing, not really wanting to talk to anyone, then accepting it and moving forward, perhaps too quickly, back into the job market. I found the hardest part was just coping with feeling irrelevant. I derived a lot of comfort from being in a niche industry and feeling very connected. What I found helped, was to act quickly, as people remember you best, and let clients, colleagues and competitors know that due to business changes you are ready to apply your skills elsewhere. Remember that they recruited you just a short while ago, you are still in demand, and the sting will lessen as you find a more fitting position anyway. I ultimately joined a client's firm I'd worked closely with, and incidentally always wondered what it would be like to work at, and have found it much more enjoyable, if less remunerative, to work with them. I did make the mistake initially of letting a friend talk me into helping with her startup for a bit the day after I was laid off. It ended up being a horrible idea.

So the advice may be, weigh your options carefully, but sustain current relationships vigorously in the first few weeks you're out. Also, I found negotiating the layoff terms futile and distracting. Sign and move on. Your efforts are best spent finding a new position that maximizes your happiness, and that will be worth well more than an extra month's pay minus legal bills.

Hope this helps.

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Re: Lay off highly probable!
« Reply #19 on: June 03, 2015, 10:00:16 AM »
Sorry to hear the news.  You may have not been quite ready for it, but as I mentioned before, I would look seriously think about giving ER or part time work a go.  After 20 years of work it is probably time for a break "to find yourself again" if nothing else. It would probably be great for the kids as well.  At 41 you still have plenty of time to adjust down the road if you need to, plus with your sales experience,  commision based jobs are almost always available. 

Any chance you could downsize the house?  Or rent out a garage apartment? An extra $100k in the stache or a little rental income could seal the deal on your ER. 

As far as negotiating goes, it never hurts to ask, but 10 weeks for 3 years does sound pretty good. 
« Last Edit: June 03, 2015, 10:06:35 AM by So Close »

Axecleaver

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Re: Lay off highly probable!
« Reply #20 on: June 03, 2015, 10:25:27 AM »
Chin up! You were just offered 10 weeks of pay in exchange for almost nothing. It hurts, but what a great ROI! This is a good deal for you.

You can try to negotiate it with the right person, but that's unlikely to pay off. But, it's a low risk ask, so you could give it a shot.

Having been there myself, this can screw with your sense of self-worth. Acknowledge that, and take care of yourself. When I went through it, I had a lot less in the bank than you do today. It may help to make a "pros and cons" list on paper. Make sure you know what the deadline for a response is. 

Take a deep breath. You will get through this, and you really are in fantastic shape, financially.

RichMoose

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Re: Lay off highly probable!
« Reply #21 on: June 03, 2015, 11:37:44 AM »
Sorry to hear the news thrifty. I'm sure things will turn out all right, better than you think in fact.

I would definitely negotiate up your severance. Even if you get a couple more weeks, it's free money. They are letting you go regardless so there is no harm in a reasonable request to have your severance go up to 12 or 14 weeks.

Take some time over the next few days prepare a well-written letter that you submit to an HR manager. Request a reasonable increase in severance and provide good reasons that resonate with the average Canadian. Make sure you note personal factors such as your young family, three kids, stay-at-home-wife so you are the sole provider of income for your family, the hiring climate in your area (you can even note general employment trends such as increasing part-time work etc), that this is the worst time of year to get a new job are you are competing with recent university graduates and hiring is slowed down by summer vacations taken by HR personnel in other companies, upcoming summer expenses that you've already committed to believing you would be employed (ie. family vacations, kids activities/camps), and significant near-term expenses (that annual property tax bill that's due in less than a month).

Companies are generally reluctant to set themselves up for legal battles so it's important to put it in letter format. For them it's much easier/cheaper to consider your request and potentially give a couple more weeks of pay than risk having to hire a defense lawyer and prepare costly responses to civil claims (not that you would necessarily take this step, but it's how managers think).   

Use whatever you can to your advantage! Good luck!
« Last Edit: June 03, 2015, 11:47:08 AM by Tuxedo »

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Re: Lay off highly probable!
« Reply #22 on: June 03, 2015, 12:18:43 PM »
Ditto on the advice above.

After your last day, you need time to decompress. This just threw a giant rock in your pond, so take time to let things settle. You're getting minimum 10 weeks pay for no work. You're so close to FIRE, you can afford to be unemployed. Take a few months (yes, months) to let the shock settle, connect with your family, ride bikes all over the place this summer, etc. After you're in a good place mentally, then evaluate and decide. Give ER a go? Part time or full time work? Sit down with your wife and talk through the options, see what makes sense. Maybe she wants to get a job while you take care of the kids. You never know.

You and your family will be just fine.

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Re: Lay off highly probable!
« Reply #23 on: June 03, 2015, 02:05:05 PM »
Ditto to all the advice. I just want to say I'm sorry and offer sympathy. It happened to me, too. No matter how much they pay you to leave, it's an ego blow and it feels just awful. Give yourself some time to decompress before you make any major decisions.

thriftyc

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Re: Lay off highly probable!
« Reply #24 on: June 03, 2015, 07:25:15 PM »
Thanks for the advice everyone.

I did take the letter to a lawyer today for review. Coughed up a cool $300 to do so. He said I had about a 50/50 chance of squeezing out another 15k out of them by sending a letter or going to court. But they could also drag their heals in the process hoping I find a job. If I find a job, they are less liable for payout. In Ontario, the payouts can be based on how quickly one can or expect to reasonably find a similar type of job. Don't know if its worth the effort and risk. However, as mentioned by Tuxedo, sending them a letter myself might be worth a try. Something I have to ponder.

I certainly underestimated the emotional hit.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2015, 07:27:20 PM by thriftycanadian »

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Re: Lay off highly probable!
« Reply #25 on: June 04, 2015, 07:07:34 AM »
Thanks for the advice everyone.

I did take the letter to a lawyer today for review. Coughed up a cool $300 to do so. He said I had about a 50/50 chance of squeezing out another 15k out of them by sending a letter or going to court. But they could also drag their heals in the process hoping I find a job. If I find a job, they are less liable for payout. In Ontario, the payouts can be based on how quickly one can or expect to reasonably find a similar type of job. Don't know if its worth the effort and risk. However, as mentioned by Tuxedo, sending them a letter myself might be worth a try. Something I have to ponder.

I certainly underestimated the emotional hit.

I would definitely send out a letter and see if they budge a little but I wouldn't spend a lot of mental energy on it.  Are you also entitled to unemployment compensation?  Don't know how things work in Canada, but in US you would be able to collect unemployment insurance.

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Re: Lay off highly probable!
« Reply #26 on: June 04, 2015, 07:14:21 AM »
Hi all,

Well, it happened. Got called into a meeting today and within that meeting 5 of us got "picked" to go to another room with HR. I was one of them. So I am done. Never in my 20 years of working have I ever been laid off/fired. I was at this company for 3 years. They offered me 10 weeks severance, plus some accrued vacation and profit sharing pay. So it works out to about 3 to 3.5 months pay total. I have 10 business days to decide and sign.

I was recruited from my last company of 15 years to this one. Is it worthwhile to go after them for more severance? ...

The bolded phrase is a very relevant fact to the quantum of compensation to which you may be entitled. In Canada, an employment contract implicitly includes a term providing that any termination will be with notice, or with pay in lieu of notice. The fact that you were recruited away from a long-term stable job may significantly increase the amount of notice to which you are entitled. I hope you mentioned that fact to the lawyer you consulted as it would be very relevant to their analysis of the case. If you didn't mention that to the lawyer, their analysis might be unduly conservative.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2015, 07:16:43 AM by Cathy »

thriftyc

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Re: Lay off highly probable!
« Reply #27 on: June 04, 2015, 03:33:16 PM »
Hi all,

Well, it happened. Got called into a meeting today and within that meeting 5 of us got "picked" to go to another room with HR. I was one of them. So I am done. Never in my 20 years of working have I ever been laid off/fired. I was at this company for 3 years. They offered me 10 weeks severance, plus some accrued vacation and profit sharing pay. So it works out to about 3 to 3.5 months pay total. I have 10 business days to decide and sign.

I was recruited from my last company of 15 years to this one. Is it worthwhile to go after them for more severance? ...

The bolded phrase is a very relevant fact to the quantum of compensation to which you may be entitled. In Canada, an employment contract implicitly includes a term providing that any termination will be with notice, or with pay in lieu of notice. The fact that you were recruited away from a long-term stable job may significantly increase the amount of notice to which you are entitled. I hope you mentioned that fact to the lawyer you consulted as it would be very relevant to their analysis of the case. If you didn't mention that to the lawyer, their analysis might be unduly conservative.

Hi Cathy - Yes, we talked about that. Actually that was the primary driver of me bringing it to a lawyer. The fact that I have been there for over 3 years makes it a difficult case. Plus there is not enough evidence he feels in terms of proving that I was recruited.

thriftyc

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Re: Lay off highly probable!
« Reply #28 on: June 04, 2015, 03:36:01 PM »
Thanks for the advice everyone.

I did take the letter to a lawyer today for review. Coughed up a cool $300 to do so. He said I had about a 50/50 chance of squeezing out another 15k out of them by sending a letter or going to court. But they could also drag their heals in the process hoping I find a job. If I find a job, they are less liable for payout. In Ontario, the payouts can be based on how quickly one can or expect to reasonably find a similar type of job. Don't know if its worth the effort and risk. However, as mentioned by Tuxedo, sending them a letter myself might be worth a try. Something I have to ponder.

I certainly underestimated the emotional hit.

I would definitely send out a letter and see if they budge a little but I wouldn't spend a lot of mental energy on it.  Are you also entitled to unemployment compensation?  Don't know how things work in Canada, but in US you would be able to collect unemployment insurance.

Yes, we have unemployment insurance in Canada. It would work out to about $500 or a little more per week. For about 45 weeks after my weeks of severance gets used up.

thriftyc

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Re: Lay off highly probable!
« Reply #29 on: June 18, 2015, 06:53:47 PM »
Well, officially laid off for 2 weeks now. Feels weird, one side of me wants to go back to work and the other side does not. I have applied for the odd job, went to an interview today but don't really want to take it because I don't think its a good cultural fit for me.

Decisions, Decisions.

Anyone else ever laid off when close to FI? It really plays on your motivation. I am kinda bummed, for some reason....


RichMoose

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Re: Lay off highly probable!
« Reply #30 on: June 18, 2015, 08:39:54 PM »
Take the bull by the horns and try do a few things that you've always wanted to do but had that excuse about not enough time/too much work/etc. be it cooking, gardening, going to the gym everyday, training and running in a local 10k, biking everywhere, working on your golf game or whatever it is. If you set yourself some personal goals you will get rid of the bummed feeling.

By the way, how did you end up making out with the severance thing?

Jeremy E.

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Re: Lay off highly probable!
« Reply #31 on: June 19, 2015, 11:21:49 AM »
Well, officially laid off for 2 weeks now. Feels weird, one side of me wants to go back to work and the other side does not. I have applied for the odd job, went to an interview today but don't really want to take it because I don't think its a good cultural fit for me.

Decisions, Decisions.

Anyone else ever laid off when close to FI? It really plays on your motivation. I am kinda bummed, for some reason....
My understanding is they had already laid you off and gave you 10 weeks severance + remaining vacation pay? I really don't understand why you don't just retire, maybe find a part time job or an alternative way to make or save a small amount of money, but I see no reason to go back to full time work.... But either way Good Luck!

Axecleaver

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Re: Lay off highly probable!
« Reply #32 on: June 19, 2015, 11:46:49 AM »
Quote
It really plays on your motivation. I am kinda bummed, for some reason....

Sure, you're bummed because you've been completely in control of your destiny for so long, and you had already written the script for how you were going to leave. When they laid you off, you realized you weren't in control at all, and that lack of control is incredibly demoralizing.

Take a look at Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs. You reach the highest state of satisfaction when you reach self-actualization. This is a fairly universal human experience. When you lose control over a piece of your life, it's disorienting and crushing to your selnse of self.

The way to fight it is to sit down and decide what's next. Then, go make it happen. It's the same advice for people newly divorced or widowed, for parents who lost a child, for people who lost their jobs, for recovering addicts or stroke victims rebuilding their lives. Take control of your next phase and stop looking backward at the old plans that didn't come to pass. You've had two weeks to mourn your old life - now go get after your new one.

thriftyc

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Re: Lay off highly probable!
« Reply #33 on: June 19, 2015, 01:30:26 PM »
Take the bull by the horns and try do a few things that you've always wanted to do but had that excuse about not enough time/too much work/etc. be it cooking, gardening, going to the gym everyday, training and running in a local 10k, biking everywhere, working on your golf game or whatever it is. If you set yourself some personal goals you will get rid of the bummed feeling.

By the way, how did you end up making out with the severance thing?

True, there has been a lot of shit that I could not do in the past, that I can do now from a time perspective. All I have been doing with my time so far is applying for jobs like a mad man.. LOL
I got 10 weeks plus, 4k profit sharing and 1.5 weeks of vacation pay. After taxes are deducted, maybe will work out to about 5 months of living expenses

thriftyc

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Re: Lay off highly probable!
« Reply #34 on: June 19, 2015, 01:31:41 PM »
Well, officially laid off for 2 weeks now. Feels weird, one side of me wants to go back to work and the other side does not. I have applied for the odd job, went to an interview today but don't really want to take it because I don't think its a good cultural fit for me.

Decisions, Decisions.

Anyone else ever laid off when close to FI? It really plays on your motivation. I am kinda bummed, for some reason....
My understanding is they had already laid you off and gave you 10 weeks severance + remaining vacation pay? I really don't understand why you don't just retire, maybe find a part time job or an alternative way to make or save a small amount of money, but I see no reason to go back to full time work.... But either way Good Luck!

I don't understand it either. I think I am a type A or something.

thriftyc

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Re: Lay off highly probable!
« Reply #35 on: June 19, 2015, 01:35:53 PM »
Quote
It really plays on your motivation. I am kinda bummed, for some reason....

Sure, you're bummed because you've been completely in control of your destiny for so long, and you had already written the script for how you were going to leave. When they laid you off, you realized you weren't in control at all, and that lack of control is incredibly demoralizing.

Take a look at Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs. You reach the highest state of satisfaction when you reach self-actualization. This is a fairly universal human experience. When you lose control over a piece of your life, it's disorienting and crushing to your selnse of self.

The way to fight it is to sit down and decide what's next. Then, go make it happen. It's the same advice for people newly divorced or widowed, for parents who lost a child, for people who lost their jobs, for recovering addicts or stroke victims rebuilding their lives. Take control of your next phase and stop looking backward at the old plans that didn't come to pass. You've had two weeks to mourn your old life - now go get after your new one.

Interesting spin, thanks for the perspective.

Just got off the phone with my last interview, offered me a job for 10k less than I earned in the past. But they want me to start right away, thing is, I am going on a camping trip with my kids July6th week. So, looks like I am gonna have to turn it down anyway. Plus, its a very small company. I am used to working for megacorps....so does not sit right from a few angles.

Axecleaver

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Re: Lay off highly probable!
« Reply #36 on: June 22, 2015, 11:39:56 AM »
Quote
offered me a job for 10k less than I earned in the past. But they want me to start right away, thing is, I am going on a camping trip with my kids July 6th week. So, looks like I am gonna have to turn it down anyway

Nah, this is where you negotiate. Tell them you appreciate their offer, and are looking forward to starting immediately. Due to prior commitments, you'll need the week of 7/6 off. Then (and here's where negotiation tactics come in) you offer them two choices, both of which are acceptable to you. Reframe the choices so you win either way.

1. I can start tomorrow with the week of 7/6 off, or
2. I can start the week of 7/13 when I get back.

If they won't do that, then you walk away. PS: Congrats on landing another gig so soon, even though you don't need it!

RichMoose

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Re: Lay off highly probable!
« Reply #37 on: June 22, 2015, 01:13:21 PM »
Quote
offered me a job for 10k less than I earned in the past. But they want me to start right away, thing is, I am going on a camping trip with my kids July 6th week. So, looks like I am gonna have to turn it down anyway

Nah, this is where you negotiate. Tell them you appreciate their offer, and are looking forward to starting immediately. Due to prior commitments, you'll need the week of 7/6 off. Then (and here's where negotiation tactics come in) you offer them two choices, both of which are acceptable to you. Reframe the choices so you win either way.

1. I can start tomorrow with the week of 7/6 off, or
2. I can start the week of 7/13 when I get back.

If they won't do that, then you walk away. PS: Congrats on landing another gig so soon, even though you don't need it!

Exactly! The ball is in your court thrifty. If they can't work with you from the get-go then you don't want to work there anyways.

Jeremy E.

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Re: Lay off highly probable!
« Reply #38 on: June 22, 2015, 01:17:52 PM »

thriftyc

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Re: Lay off highly probable!
« Reply #39 on: July 19, 2015, 09:21:15 PM »
Hi all,

Having a really hard time.

So I have been job hunting and interviewing. I have been offered 2 jobs and turned them both down because they did not feel right.

Have a couple of interviews lined up so far for this week. Problem is, the idea of working for someone full time makes me feel depressed. The reason I am looking though is because I want to build up enough to have extra for my kids braces and a leaky roof - don't feel I have enough cushion for those kinds of non regular expenses.

Really torn here!

RichMoose

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Re: Lay off highly probable!
« Reply #40 on: July 19, 2015, 11:17:06 PM »
Hi all,

Having a really hard time.

So I have been job hunting and interviewing. I have been offered 2 jobs and turned them both down because they did not feel right.

Have a couple of interviews lined up so far for this week. Problem is, the idea of working for someone full time makes me feel depressed. The reason I am looking though is because I want to build up enough to have extra for my kids braces and a leaky roof - don't feel I have enough cushion for those kinds of non regular expenses.

Really torn here!

Well looks like one good thing has come of this: you are not ready for retirement on a personal level even though you are basically there financially. This should be a motivator once you've found a new job.

Are you certain you want to stay in your field? What about doing something else that you've always set your eyes on? You have the financial security to take a large pay cut...

pbkmaine

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Re: Lay off highly probable!
« Reply #41 on: July 20, 2015, 01:46:31 AM »
So what about part time work instead?

dess1313

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Re: Lay off highly probable!
« Reply #42 on: July 20, 2015, 03:28:30 AM »
ditto about the part time work.  Its a really good way of stepping back slowly, while covering costs.  You can start to do things that are on your 'to do list' and start habits outside work to help ease this worry.  Its so nice to have outside hobbies that you WANT to escape work for.

cdttmm

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Re: Lay off highly probable!
« Reply #43 on: July 20, 2015, 07:11:20 AM »
Yes, we have unemployment insurance in Canada. It would work out to about $500 or a little more per week. For about 45 weeks after my weeks of severance gets used up.

I was laid off after working at the same company for 17 years. Even though I saw it coming 6 months in advance and knew I would get a chunky severance (it was written into my employment agreement), it was tough emotionally. Based on my experience, here's my advice.

Apply for and interview for jobs during the 10 weeks when you're receiving severance pay. If you happen to find something that is a good fit, great. If not, keep looking.

Apply for unemployment insurance as soon as you can. Where I live, we have to prove that we're job hunting by submitting documentation of our efforts, but that was pretty easy. Even if you have the same requirement, it sounds like you could easily collect $500 per week for minimal effort. Make sure you understand all the rules of collecting unemployment so that you don't accidentally disqualify yourself by turning down a job offer or forgetting to file some necessary paperwork. If you keep it up for the full 45 weeks that you're entitled to, then you'll have more than a year total to essentially enjoy an early retirement trial run. There's a reason you read and participate in this forum -- early retirement appeals to you. But that doesn't mean it's easy to shift into when the time comes. (It wasn't for me so I eventually found a part-time job that I love.) So take this opportunity to practice for retirement. Do things you've always wanted to do, optimize parts of your life you couldn't optimize while working, and generally just treat each day as a learning experience. Experiment with all kinds of things. When during the day do you get in the best workout? When during the day do you feel most motivated to cook or do meal prep? When during the day do you feel energized to do home maintenance, yard work, deep clean the house, etc.?

Figuring out how to use your free time is a challenge for some people. My current part-time job is cyclical so when I suddenly have a few months off, it always takes me a few weeks to get back into my optimal retirement schedule. The one where I'm feeling productive every day, but still relaxed and enjoying my free time.

Hope that helps!

frompa

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Re: Lay off highly probable!
« Reply #44 on: July 20, 2015, 07:18:19 AM »
Hey CDTTM - Though I'm not the OP or in close to his situation, I appreciate your advice, and the long-range view of things.  It's very helpful to hear some details on how to deal with the ups and downs of being out of the workplace. 

thriftyc

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Re: Lay off highly probable!
« Reply #45 on: July 23, 2015, 08:06:12 PM »
Yes, we have unemployment insurance in Canada. It would work out to about $500 or a little more per week. For about 45 weeks after my weeks of severance gets used up.

I was laid off after working at the same company for 17 years. Even though I saw it coming 6 months in advance and knew I would get a chunky severance (it was written into my employment agreement), it was tough emotionally. Based on my experience, here's my advice.

Apply for and interview for jobs during the 10 weeks when you're receiving severance pay. If you happen to find something that is a good fit, great. If not, keep looking.

Apply for unemployment insurance as soon as you can. Where I live, we have to prove that we're job hunting by submitting documentation of our efforts, but that was pretty easy. Even if you have the same requirement, it sounds like you could easily collect $500 per week for minimal effort. Make sure you understand all the rules of collecting unemployment so that you don't accidentally disqualify yourself by turning down a job offer or forgetting to file some necessary paperwork. If you keep it up for the full 45 weeks that you're entitled to, then you'll have more than a year total to essentially enjoy an early retirement trial run. There's a reason you read and participate in this forum -- early retirement appeals to you. But that doesn't mean it's easy to shift into when the time comes. (It wasn't for me so I eventually found a part-time job that I love.) So take this opportunity to practice for retirement. Do things you've always wanted to do, optimize parts of your life you couldn't optimize while working, and generally just treat each day as a learning experience. Experiment with all kinds of things. When during the day do you get in the best workout? When during the day do you feel most motivated to cook or do meal prep? When during the day do you feel energized to do home maintenance, yard work, deep clean the house, etc.?

Figuring out how to use your free time is a challenge for some people. My current part-time job is cyclical so when I suddenly have a few months off, it always takes me a few weeks to get back into my optimal retirement schedule. The one where I'm feeling productive every day, but still relaxed and enjoying my free time.

Hope that helps!


Thanks for the advice, very good information from someone who experienced it. The question I have more for myself is: How do I know what job to take? If I needed every penny I would take the first job I got, not needing a job right away makes me be a little picky but also make it far more stressful than I imagined in a bizarre kinda way.


thriftyc

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Re: Lay off highly probable!
« Reply #46 on: July 23, 2015, 08:09:59 PM »
Hi all,

Having a really hard time.

So I have been job hunting and interviewing. I have been offered 2 jobs and turned them both down because they did not feel right.

Have a couple of interviews lined up so far for this week. Problem is, the idea of working for someone full time makes me feel depressed. The reason I am looking though is because I want to build up enough to have extra for my kids braces and a leaky roof - don't feel I have enough cushion for those kinds of non regular expenses.

Really torn here!

Well looks like one good thing has come of this: you are not ready for retirement on a personal level even though you are basically there financially. This should be a motivator once you've found a new job.

Are you certain you want to stay in your field? What about doing something else that you've always set your eyes on? You have the financial security to take a large pay cut...

Not sure about staying in my field. I have been in the renovations sales management field for a while now - I may have an option to become an automotive sales manager at a dealership 10 mins form my house. That would be a bit of a change but also not very mustachian in terms of selling people big new shiny cars. ha ha

thriftyc

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Re: Lay off highly probable!
« Reply #47 on: July 23, 2015, 08:11:33 PM »
A few of you mentioned part time work, any ideas? Won't most pt jobs be min wage?

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Re: Lay off highly probable!
« Reply #48 on: July 24, 2015, 09:34:25 AM »
A few of you mentioned part time work, any ideas? Won't most pt jobs be min wage?

Seems like the best (highest paying) part time jobs are not advertised, they are developed.  Either people start full time and downshift, or they work their network to find someone who needs highly skilled help, just not 40 hours of it.  When and if I decide to do some part time work post ER, I will probably just come out with it say what I want.  I fully expect to be turned down a LOT, but if I can hit on the right opportunity, I can easily see part-time work being a very nice part of my ER.  The beauty of FI is that if it isn't working out, I can cut ties and move on to the next job without worrying about how the bills are going to get paid in the meantime.  I've only worked for 2 companies over my career, but I think a little job hopping in the future might actually be fun and keep me more motivated due to learning new people/places/things.   

Le Poisson

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Re: Lay off highly probable!
« Reply #49 on: July 24, 2015, 09:45:43 AM »
A few of you mentioned part time work, any ideas? Won't most pt jobs be min wage?

"Renovation Sales Management" is three titles in one. You are an expert in sales, in renovations, and in management. Thats three PT jobs that could be developed at far more than min wage right there.
  • Freelance some CAD/Interior Design work from the Renovation side.
  • Go into new home sales and work in the design centre to combo sales with Renovation
  • Permit running can be very lucrative as a sideline
  • sales you are already exploring in cars - how about real estate? How about materials? How about teaming up with a Home Inspector to generate leads on comission?

...And so on. Many sidelines open to generate more than Min wage, and possibly grow into a FT gig.