Laptop (Linux?) under 1000$

[ObviouslyNotAGolfer]

Our current laptop--used almost exclusively by my wife for browsing the web--is nearing 8 years old. It is a Toshiba with i3 and 6 GB RAM that I got for free with my UAL miles (never got the upgrades I wanted!) It has been a very good machine, but is really slowing down, and the keys are starting to stick and annoy my wife. I might take it to our local tech, but am also thinking about getting something new.

I like the fact that it is fairly small and light. AT 14", it is easy enough to throw in the carryon for flights overseas. I told her if she wants something bigger, we can get it, but then we will have to take a tablet on the plane, 'cause I'm not lugging that around. (When you're tramping through Europe by train EVERY OUNCE counts!!---Our life is awesome because we are child-free! ;)

I also really am tired of Windows, and think this might be a good way to get our feet wet with Linux Mint (or some distro).

I would like it to be competent at Microsoft Libre Office and also Audacity. I use Audacity for digitizing LPs--that's the only thing I've used it for lately. I don't think Audacity needs a ton of power or RAM, but it certainly needs more than some punk-ass Chrome Book.

We will certainly want an SDD, and at least 8 GB.

I bought a Dell desktop system from Dell refurb, but that sucks ass and freezes a few times a week. Intermittent problem very very very difficult to diagnose. The Dell Wizards want to do a complete C-drive swap, which I seriously doubt will solve the problem--but WILL cost me countless hours re-downloading, re-installing, and re-configuring all the specialized software I need to work 100% remotely. (I have already done the BIOS update and complete reinstall of video card driver to no effect.)

One company who specializes in Linux laptops claims they are best built from the ground up (because, of course they do), but I think it would possibly be cheaper to buy a Windows machine, blow off the garbage, and start from scratch with Linux.

Any ideas? (Anyone who says "Just get a Mac" will receive a virtual boot to the head).

[BDWW]

I've purchased several System76 laptops (a Galago pro sits a foot to my left, but I'm currently using a desktop) and several Dell Ubuntu XPS 13s.  I like that System76 focuses on Linux, but truthfully, the XPS 13s are better, and work great. The other laptop we've deployed a few of is Acer Aspire E15s (Windows wiped and Ubuntu installed). They are a pretty good workhorse laptop, but not really thin and light.

I'm as down as the next guy on Dell's desktops as we've had several with proprietary motherboards and other nonsense, but the XPS 13 laptops really are great.

[FINate]

Mostly posting to follow...

I'm waiting for the Framework folks to release more information on pricing, and for some real world reviews. I like the repairability concept. If the price is right and the quality checks out I may pick one up.

Also looking at laptopwithlinux.com and System76, mainly specing some potential builds. SSD is a must, and I would go min 16GB memory, though in part that's because DW likes to leave a bajillion tabs open.

[innkeeper77]

My wife and I both use cheap linux-running Lenovo Thinkpads (the thinkpad part is important- regular lenovos can be junk) - they are slow, but small, cheap, and sturdy. How fast do you need? Thinkpads hold their value OK, but depreciate fast enough to buy a decently new one for cheap. (I find they have a higher price floor than other brands, but don't depreciate as slowly as apple laptops)

I would suggest learning linux by installing it on an existing system first, or buying a random cheap local used laptop to test it. It's rather easy, no command line necessary, but there are of course differences from windows. At this point, I find installing software on linux to be EASIER! Instead of going online, downloading a package, etc, I can just open the software tool, search the name, and click install. (Or just type it in the command line. Decide I want to install thunderbird? Open the terminal, type something like "sudo apt-get install thunderbird" depending on what version of linux you decide to use, and it's done)

For reference, my wife is using a X250, with an older i7, 8gb ram, and I put an SSD in it. She is running Kubuntu. This machine has a processor that is too slow for doing ANYTHING else while on a zoom call (zoom is really resource heavy) which is why I upgraded and gave it to her. It's 6 years old at this point.

I am using an x270 modified with a 13.3" screen instead of the stock 12.5, i7, 16 GB ram, and I have a 500 gb SSD in it. Even this custom modified machine only cost me $500, but it came from Asia, so the built in windows key was invalid. I didn't care, as I wanted to run Fedora (with KDE) on it, but I had a spare windows 10 key anyway- though I literally never use the windows install, so I should just delete it to free up hard drive space. The X270 is a laptop from 2017, so only a minor upgrade from the older x250, but it handles everything I want it to do.

[Hibernaculum]

I agree with innkeeper77- try Linux on what you've got. At least, that will get you familiar with the OS and also give you a baseline for speed. It might be speedy enough on your old laptop, and then you'd just need to work on the sticky keys. The processor on your old laptop is the same as it was when you bought it brand new. Linux makes it pretty easy to re-install the whole OS, so you're starting fresh. I like Linux Mint Mate.

[alsoknownasDean]

Maybe you can replace the keyboard on the current laptop?

Replace the keyboard and replace the HDD with an SSD and it should still be OK for Windows or Linux. Shouldn't be too hard, there's often repair manuals that detail the process.

Maybe put Linux on that and buy a Chromebook for portable browsing?

[AccidentialMustache]

Modern chromebooks have a linux subsystem you can fire up. I don't know stable recording audio would be. It is listed as experimental: https://chromeos.dev/en/linux/linux-on-chromeos-deep-dive

There are certainly higher end chromebooks (https://store.google.com/us/product/pixelbook_go_specs for the obvious example) -- an 8th gen i5 isn't "new new" but it should have more than enough power for what you're looking at.

It is possible for the processor to be effectively slower on an old laptop. Dust, decaying thermal paste/thermal pads, failing fans, etc all take their toll on heat extraction,and that limits performance. Have you tried blowing canned air backwards though it and see if you blow dust out of the intake vents? Are you comfortable enough to open it up and clean it out, without shorting anything out/breaking any of the very delicate cables inside in the process?

If you're going to try linux, do that via a live-usb image and dump it on a spare usb key. Boot from the live-image without blowing away the system you have first and see how it goes. A competent live-usb will let you install (smaller) packages and save files as long as your usb key was big enough, so you can possibly install something like chrome if your wife uses that instead of firefox (which will be on the key by default).

[MrGreen]

I'm a total fan of the Acer Swift 3 and Swift 1 series of laptops. The most recent generation is all 13.5" or 14" screens, all under 3 pounds in weight. Metal aluminum cases for durability and aesthetics. Fantastic battery life, 10-17 hours depending on the model.

The Swift 3 line has even branched in AMD Ryzen chips if you'd prefer those. Their most recent addition is a line using 11th Gen Core i CPUs with the new Intel Xe GPU. I've been reading that the Xe is a huge leap forward for Intel's integrated graphics chip and it's even beating some dedicated GPUs in performance.

Specs are typically 4-8GB RAM and 128-512GB SSD depending on the price of each model, but you can get the new Intel Xe GPU with 8GB RAM and 512GB SSD for $900. I feel like this line has been almost impossible to beat, value-wise, for a few years now. I think the cheapest Swift 3 right now is $630 and that still has decent specs.

https://www.acer.com/ac/en/US/content/model/NX.A4KAA.003

The Swift 1 offerings have been slimmed down to one version at $350. Is basically the same chassis as the Swift 3 with an Intel Celeron processor, 4GB RAM, and 128GB SSD. Still not a bad deal for a machine that is very close to the cost of a Chromebook but is a more robust functioning computer. We only have one computer right now and Ive been considering getting one of these for when my wife is working on our laptop, which is an Acer Swift 3 we've had for almost 3 years now.

If you don't mind a dual-boot setup, Ubuntu Linux now has a version packaged as a Windows app (WUBI) that makes it ridiculously easy to run both OSes on the same machine.

[FLBiker]

May just be a couple of lemons, but I've been a fan of Thinkpads (first IBM, then Lenovo) for decades, and my last two experiences (DW and my current laptops) hasn't been great.  DW had to replace her HD, and I've had fan issues (so far, cleaning has alleviated them).  And I had a Dell XPS 13 for work and I loved it.  It's more than I would generally spend on a personal laptop, but I'm usually on my work PC.

[JLee]

Prep for booting!

For what it's worth, the M1 (specifically and only the M1 CPU) Macbook Air is an utterly spectacular machine.  I sold my Dell XPS15 i7 7700HQ with 64GB RAM for an 8GB M1 Air and I have no regrets.  It's slim, light, shockingly capable, and the battery seems to last forever. Adjusting to Mac took some time, with me being a lifelong Microsoft (DOS, then Windows) user, but so far I have been happy with my decision.

Otherwise, as mentioned above I'd install Linux on what you have and try that out. A lightweight Linux install will likely be massively faster than Windows is on your current laptop.

[neo von retorch]

I believe these two laptops are the "same"; that is the same chassis / internals but slight customizations from Slimbook and Eluktronics. Slimbook will pre-install Linux, but with the Eluktronics you can get it without the OS and install Linux yourself. Because the hardware matches, you should find Linux drivers for all of the hardware.

https://slimbook.es/en/kde-slimbook-amd-en
https://www.eluktronics.com/THINN-15 (currently out of stock, just realized as I'm writing this up)

I had an 11" Dell Inspiron 11 3137 (upgraded to 8GB RAM, 128GB SSD), and I put Ubuntu 20.04 LTS on it, and everything seemed to work. However, at some point I applied updates, and it crashed and I am not Linux savvy enough to figure out how to recover, so I put Windows 10 back on it and lent it to my MIL who is considering getting a small laptop for basic web browsing. So far she's been happy with this 8 year old machine and hasn't run out to buy something faster.

I also had a 13.3" Asus Zenbook Flip S (Core i7 8550U, 16GB, 512GB NVMe), and I also put Ubuntu 20.04 LTS on that. Everything worked except the fingerprint reader. Battery life was a bit worse under Linux than Windows 10, and given the 39Wh battery had decayed to just 30Wh, the battery life was barely 2 hours. (In the end, it wasn't getting much use, and I put Windows 10 back on it and sold it on eBay).

https://old.reddit.com/r/AMDLaptops/
A lot of the discussions on here revolve around how well each laptop works with Linux so you might want to browse through here. Most of the laptops here are Ryzen 4000 or Ryzen 5000 series, which are certainly way more powerful than you need, but some of them are $500-650 for a 6-core monster that gets 6+ hours of battery life. In general, all AMD laptops have good Linux driver support (the ones you'd want will have  U suffix on the CPU, and will have graphics built into the processor, aka APU), where as mixing in Nvidia seems to have more issues.

[FINate]

For what it's worth, the M1 (specifically and only the M1 CPU) Macbook Air is an utterly spectacular machine.  I sold my Dell XPS15 i7 7700HQ with 64GB RAM for an 8GB M1 Air and I have no regrets.  It's slim, light, shockingly capable, and the battery seems to last forever. Adjusting to Mac took some time, with me being a lifelong Microsoft (DOS, then Windows) user, but so far I have been happy with my decision.

The M1 is great tech, but irrelevant to me due to things like Apple's T2 chip and planned obsolescence. Ending security updates for older macOSes while providing no upgrade path for legacy hardware leaves users in a terrible spot: run an unsupported/insecure system or scrap perfectly functional hardware. They're clearly going all-in on the walled garden approach while forcing users to prematurely upgrade, which is bad for the pocket book and the environment. I should note that we switched from MS to Mac in 2005 after I got sick of MS "embrace and extend" and other anti-competitive behavior. IMO, MS is now the lesser of two mainstream evils. My next laptop will be a dual boot MS/Linux, mostly running Linux but with MS if/when needed.

The THINN-15 is very interesting.

[ObviouslyNotAGolfer]

Thanks very much for the ideas. I am leaning toward fixing/upgrading the old one (asking tech if it's worth it)...

[robartsd]

The M1 is great tech, but irrelevant to me due to things like Apple's T2 chip and planned obsolescence. Ending security updates for older macOSes while providing no upgrade path for legacy hardware leaves users in a terrible spot: run an unsupported/insecure system or scrap perfectly functional hardware.

I totally agree about Apple making hardware obsolete by failing to provide security support; however, you could disable the T2 chip's secure boot feature to run Linux instead of MacOS.

[robartsd]

Your machine would be quite an upgrade from my cheap Chromebook or the ancient desktops I run linux on (Core2Duo & early i3). I'm finding I'm quite comfortable running the Cinnamon desktop environment on Linux Mint. A good clean out, SSD upgrade, and replacing the keyboard if needed (might be fixed just by cleaning) should have you happy with the machine again based on the usage you outlined.

I've tried Linux (Crostini, not dual boot) on my Chromebook and don't recommend the experience as far as a primary usage mode. It is OK for occasionally running a linux program, but not what I'd choose for a primary usage case.

[FINate]

The M1 is great tech, but irrelevant to me due to things like Apple's T2 chip and planned obsolescence. Ending security updates for older macOSes while providing no upgrade path for legacy hardware leaves users in a terrible spot: run an unsupported/insecure system or scrap perfectly functional hardware.

I totally agree about Apple making hardware obsolete by failing to provide security support; however, you could disable the T2 chip's secure boot feature to run Linux instead of MacOS.

I know you can work around T2, that's not my main concern. Rather, it's part of a pattern of Apple making things less standards based and more proprietary. Like making RAM non-upgradeable. And there are other issues associated with T2 beyond dual boot such as https://9to5mac.com/2020/05/05/new-t2-chip/

[robartsd]

I know you can work around T2, that's not my main concern. Rather, it's part of a pattern of Apple making things less standards based and more proprietary. Like making RAM non-upgradeable. And there are other issues associated with T2 beyond dual boot such as https://9to5mac.com/2020/05/05/new-t2-chip/

I agree with that article that Apple should establish a channel for legitimate used devices to be reset. I think a stolen device registry makes sense. A waiting period between initial request to reset a device and being able to receive authorization from Apple to reset the device could be a good idea to make it difficult for a thief to sell the device fast enough that the owner had no time to put it on the registry. Requests to reset devices on the stolen device registry could be reported back to the owner or law enforcement to assist in recovery efforts.

Still, a responsible user can avoid the issue by doing a reset before transferring the device to another party. The T2 puts the registered user in control of the hardware as designed. If other parties need to do something with the hardware, they must have explicit authorization from the registered user. Not trying to promote Apple, just don't want someone to incorrectly think that Apple security features keep them from being in control of the Apple device they purchase.

[FINate]

I know you can work around T2, that's not my main concern. Rather, it's part of a pattern of Apple making things less standards based and more proprietary. Like making RAM non-upgradeable. And there are other issues associated with T2 beyond dual boot such as https://9to5mac.com/2020/05/05/new-t2-chip/

I agree with that article that Apple should establish a channel for legitimate used devices to be reset. I think a stolen device registry makes sense. A waiting period between initial request to reset a device and being able to receive authorization from Apple to reset the device could be a good idea to make it difficult for a thief to sell the device fast enough that the owner had no time to put it on the registry. Requests to reset devices on the stolen device registry could be reported back to the owner or law enforcement to assist in recovery efforts.

Still, a responsible user can avoid the issue by doing a reset before transferring the device to another party. The T2 puts the registered user in control of the hardware as designed. If other parties need to do something with the hardware, they must have explicit authorization from the registered user. Not trying to promote Apple, just don't want someone to incorrectly think that Apple security features keep them from being in control of the Apple device they purchase.

They should, but they haven't. Therefore tons of Apple hardware is ending up bricked and essentially in the landfill. Terrible for the environment, good for Apple's bottom line. Maybe I'm too cynical, but this isn't at all surprising. They make most of their money on hardware, and shareholders demand ever increasing profits, so something's gotta give. And while folks can bypass T2 for now, I expect Apple will make this increasingly difficult/undesirable. So yeah, you can currently dual boot Linux, but this will become more problematic as they continue to add closed proprietary components. Simply put, it's no longer an ecosystem I want to be in.

[robartsd]

So yeah, you can currently dual boot Linux, but this will become more problematic as they continue to add closed proprietary components. Simply put, it's no longer an ecosystem I want to be in.

I'd be happy with Apple hardware, but personally can't justify the premium price they put on it since I don't value the software ecosystem due to their pattern of planned obsolescence. I hope they don't deliberately lock out user choice to run other software in the future - I don't see that significantly benefiting them as people who purchase their hardware are generally interested in staying in the software ecosystem and lack of software support would drive them to upgrade even if the hardware is usable with other software.

[FINate]

I'd be happy with Apple hardware, but personally can't justify the premium price they put on it since I don't value the software ecosystem due to their pattern of planned obsolescence. I hope they don't deliberately lock out user choice to run other software in the future - I don't see that significantly benefiting them as people who purchase their hardware are generally interested in staying in the software ecosystem and lack of software support would drive them to upgrade even if the hardware is usable with other software.

I don't mean intentionally locking out third parties (though I see that as a possibility in the future), more that they have zero incentive to consider third party compatibility since they are vertically integrated. For the most part I like macOS, nor am I particularly in love with Linux. But Apple's penchant for closed proprietary hardware combined with short EOL timeline has soured me on their products. I really abhor throwing out a perfectly good computer just because they no long support it and made it difficult to reliably run alternatives. 

[ChpBstrd]

I actually transitioned from Linux (Mint, Ubuntu, and PC Linux at various times) to a four-year-old Mac six years ago. Spent ~$350 on eBay at the time because the case had a crack, which never was an issue. The lack of bugs was nice, and I got updates until my device was 10 years old, which I consider to be outstanding support. However, if you want software you have to pay for it, which was strange to me. It's running fine, especially since I upgraded to 8GB RAM, although Safari bogs down on heavy websites because it seems to pile up data in RAM rather than getting rid of anything. Can't gripe too much though, because I got six years of use so far for about $350.

My next computer will be a Linux box. Ebay and Newegg are full of off-lease Dells, for example, which I prefer because my work's IT department has learned the hard way to prefer them. With a 512GB SSD, 16G RAM, an i5, and Windows 10 you can expect to pay $500, (example: https://www.newegg.com/black-dell-latitude-e7470-everyday-value/p/1TS-000A-03VE4?Item=9SIAF9SAUP6511) and you could lower that price if you are willing to do your own upgrades. Those specs, although 6-7 years old, would be lightning fast with a Linux OS. You'd want to buy something with cheap replacement batteries though. For now, I'm holding out for a few relatives' hand-me-downs because I'm a cheap bastard and I know all money spent on IT equipment is eventually incinerated, no matter how cool or new the device is. There's still a sweet spot with taking 6-7 y/o equipment, putting Linux on it, and getting another 5 years of reliable service out of it.